BlackBerry Bold stands as 3G iPhone's chief rival

[AppleInsider]

With the announcement of the first 3G BlackBerry compatible with the same high-speed networks as the upcoming 3G iPhone, Research in Motion has set itself up for what will likely be the defining smartphone battle of 2008.

To most observers, the BlackBerry Bold's feature list reads as a laundry list of solutions to complaints that could have been equally valid for both RIM's own smartphone line and Apple's iPhone.

Introduced on Monday, the Bold is the first BlackBerry to support third-generation cellular data using the HSDPA (High Speed Download Packet Access) standard shared by most faster international networks, opening the door to faster Internet access with AT&T and other carriers that have been forced to offer 2G speeds to the BlackBerry lineup -- and the iPhone -- until today.

As with Apple's device, the handset also unlocks the potential for BlackBerry use in Japan and Korea, which use a form of 3G for most basic calling that, until now, has been absent from any of RIM's communicators.

Multiple features that have previously been included by themselves in earlier models are now together for the first time. In addition to Wi-Fi, the Bold will have a real GPS receiver for navigation, an easily-reachable memory card slot, and a 2-megapixel camera.

RIM is also making concessions to the increasing numbers of home users opting for its phones: the Bold will pack 1GB of built-in memory and even syncs with iTunes courtesy of a utility that mediates between the Apple software and the phone itself.

With the exception of removable storage, analyst forecasts and hidden mentions in beta code suggest Apple's hardware will be a near match, down to the use of a fast, 600-plus MHz processor.

What's most telling, however, is the visual redesign of the Bold. The new phone is a conspicuous break from RIM's designs for the 8800, Curve, and Pearl. The glossy black face, rounded body, and (simulated) chrome trim will be more than slightly familiar to iPhone fans -- and may be more similar than expected, if reports of a black plastic backing to the 3G iPhone prove accurate.



The phones will even share the same display resolution at 480x320, although the Bold's QWERTY keyboard in place of a touchscreen dictates a smaller LCD with a landscape aspect ratio.

These design choices, combined with the choice of networks, will make competition all but inevitable between the Bold and its Apple-created challenger. AT&T has already confirmed that it will carry the Bold and expects to launch the 3G BlackBerry during the summer, likely arriving within weeks of the new iPhone.

One rumor has also alluded to AT&T deliberately delaying the launch of the BlackBerry to July or later to avoid a potential clash between the introductions of the two high-profile devices. Most observers now expect Apple to ship its refresh in late June.

Industry watchers note, however, that RIM is likely to face more than just a physically similar platform no matter when the Bold appears. The advent of Apple's iPhone 2.0 software and the option of third-party native apps is understood to potentially pull customers away from BlackBerries who might otherwise have needed one for work.

Potentially showing its awareness of this, Canada-based RIM has even announced a similar venture capital pool, the $150 million BlackBerry Partners Fund, to invest in newcomers developing third-party software. It closely shadows Apple's own attempt to kindle development with its $100 million iFund for iPhone coders.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=4056)

[echosonic]

For the rest of your lives, you Blackberry users and RIM employees will get to look back at the best blackberry phone ever made, and resign yourselves to the fact that its a weak-ass iPhone ripoff.

They didn't even TRY to hide it.

Look at it.

Its an iPhone with QWERTY. But not as cool, useful, or pleasing the touch....

[winterspan]

For the rest of your lives, you Blackberry users and RIM employees will get to look back at the best blackberry phone ever made, and resign yourselves to the fact that its a weak-ass iPhone ripoff.

They didn't even TRY to hide it.

Look at it.

Its an iPhone with QWERTY. But not as cool, useful, or pleasing the touch....

I agree.. I like to try to act completely objective, but I just can't when every company just blatantly rips off the styling of the iPhone. At least they didn't make it one big slate with no keyboard and COMPLETELY rip-off the iPhone like the Asian manufacturers. It is funny though that they redesigned the whole interface to be more sleek and modern though, in addition to copying the iPhones ~620mhz processor and 480x320 screen. without a 3.5" screen, however, who would want to even dare use that for web browsing or watching video. The iPhone is already at the very bottom of screen size that is still usable.

[columbus]

What they never show is the interface beyond the home screen, which looks cramped and difficult to read.

Goodness knows what this is like to develop for — I see no Xcode and IB. Everything about the software stack looks primitive compared to the very high bar set by Apple.

http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/features/blackberry_maps_found.gif

Compare and contrast with iPhone's Google Maps client.

[solipsism]

For the rest of your lives, you Blackberry users and RIM employees will get to look back at the best blackberry phone ever made, and resign yourselves to the fact that its a weak-ass iPhone ripoff.

I don't agree. They, like all the others, are clearly playing catchup to Apple's UI and web browsing capabilities, but they are not ripping the iPhone off. All this amounts to—and something I've been saying since day one of the iPhone premier—is that the cell phone industry is changing for the better because of Apple's foray into this market.

I'm seeing a few higher end phones being advertised with higher resolution screens than the iPhone on a 480x240 on a 3.5" diagonal. Being a phone designed for video, I expect the iPhone to have a much higher resolution display.

[Oka's77]

I agree.. I like to try to act completely objective, but I just can't when every company just blatantly rips off the styling of the iPhone. At least they didn't make it one big slate with no keyboard and COMPLETELY rip-off the iPhone like the Asian manufacturers. It is funny though that they redesigned the whole interface to be more sleek and modern though, in addition to copying the iPhones ~620mhz processor and 480x320 screen. without a 3.5" screen, however, who would want to even dare use that for web browsing or watching video. The iPhone is already at the very bottom of screen size that is still usable.

I love the Iphone but the Iphone was a copy of LG's Prada. It's just the Prada was never sold here.

[fraklinc]

I love the Iphone but the Iphone was a copy of LG's Prada. It's just the Prada was never sold here.
Are you Serious????? there's got to be about 400 of them on ebay US is just that people don't want it, the LG Prada is also free on europe & people still did not want it.

[gsteeno]

I love the Iphone but the Iphone was a copy of LG's Prada. It's just the Prada was never sold here.


Mmm, I don't think so. I recall Apple unveiling the iPhone in Jan '07, and the Prada introduced outside the US at approximately the same time frame, maybe a little before. No way Apple copied LG, as 1) there was no time to copy the Prada, assuming the Prada was introduced first, and 2) the iPhone was in development for over two years. I'm pretty sure they were researching full-screen, multi-touch capable phones long before Prada was conceived.

[Elixir]

wooo i like this phone.

seriously, if blackberrys could run OSX i'd never even bother with an iphone. i dont need the features the iphone offers, and i cant stand texting on it. that is the edge the blackberry gets with me over the iphone-typing on it is flawless.

[fraklinc]

The BB bold is a really nice unit but the Minute Rim get's hit with another Blackout & only iphone users remain up & running, they're going to hit a brick wall at 100MPH, remember how Rim works,
Exhange server/messanger server/NOC/finally your BB unit, iPhone works directly with exchange nothing in between

[aegisdesign]

Mmm, I don't think so. I recall Apple unveiling the iPhone in Jan '07, and the Prada introduced outside the US at approximately the same time frame, maybe a little before. No way Apple copied LG, as 1) there was no time to copy the Prada, assuming the Prada was introduced first, and 2) the iPhone was in development for over two years. I'm pretty sure they were researching full-screen, multi-touch capable phones long before Prada was conceived.

*cough*

Ericsson R380

http://www.gsmarena.com/ericsson_r380-pictures-195.php

There were plenty of touchscreen phones before the iPhone and Prada.

[SpamSandwich]

There will continue to be room in the marketplace for both competitors, just like MS and Apple. No one company has a one-size-fits-all solution.

[solipsism]

Mmm, I don't think so. I recall Apple unveiling the iPhone in Jan '07, and the Prada introduced outside the US at approximately the same time frame, maybe a little before. No way Apple copied LG, as 1) there was no time to copy the Prada, assuming the Prada was introduced first, and 2) the iPhone was in development for over two years. I'm pretty sure they were researching full-screen, multi-touch capable phones long before Prada was conceived.

People use the term "copy" in the same hyperbolic way they use "x-killer" (e.g.: Zune was referred to as an iPod killer) to describe an upcoming product that is created to directly compete with a current product.

[davesmall]

Congratulations Apple. RIM has thrown in the towel.

With a large and clumsy device, too many buttons, and a tiny screen, the contest is over.

Apple wins game, set, and match.

[gsteeno]

*cough*

Ericsson R380

http://www.gsmarena.com/ericsson_r380-pictures-195.php

There were plenty of touchscreen phones before the iPhone and Prada.

I never implied that there were not touch screen phones before the iPhone. My comment was in regards to the LG - Apple link, stating that Apple was researching touch capability and not ripping off LG. The current (at the time) and previous touch-based phones were surely a good starting point for their research.

[solipsism]

Congratulations Apple. RIM has thrown in the towel.

With a large and clumsy device, too many buttons, and a tiny screen, the contest is over.

Apple wins game, set, and match.

There are no towels being thrown here. This is just proof from RiM that the iPhone is a major competitor that should not be ignored. As SpamSandwich states, there is plenty of room for different devices for different people doing different tasks.

If Apple wasn't so obsessed with having a svelte product line they would take a much larger marketshare with BB -like devices, but I can't see Apple doing that.

[AussieRoss]

I agree with you Solipsism. The "Bold" is a great step forward. At last, one of the other phone manufacturers is starting to get the idea. Build good looking and functional devices. It most definitely is not an iPhone rip-off. Instead RIM have focused on customer wants - taking into account the limits of the operating system they have to work with.

The big question will be "How usable is it?". Good luck to RIM!

[Cicero]

There will continue to be room in the marketplace for both competitors, just like MS and Apple. No one company has a one-size-fits-all solution.

I agree..

Many people really do like to feel their keys as they type and don't watch movies on their cellphone. This looks like a great solution for those people as it looks like the Bold has some of the iPhone sexiness with the functionality they may want/need. For the rest of us, there is the iPhone. I traded in my Blackberry for the iPhone when it came and I do not regret it. That said, the Blackberry was a really nice phone and this looks to improve upon that. Nice job RIM.

Marcus T. Cicero

[solipsism]

I never implied that there were not touch screen phones before the iPhone. My comment was in regards to the LG - Apple link, stating that Apple was researching touch capability and not ripping off LG. The current (at the time) and previous touch-based phones were surely a good starting point for their research.
If I recal correctly, the LG Prada was the first consumer phone to have capacitance touch, though I don't think it had the capabilities for multi-touch. Also I think it was the first cell phone with minimalistic physical buttons and a "non-clunky" UI.

At last, one of the other phone manufacturers is starting to get the idea. Build good looking and functional devices. It most definitely is not an iPhone rip-off. Instead RIM have focused on customer wants - taking into account the limits of the operating system they have to work with.

The big question will be "How usable is it?". Good luck to RIM!

This past their was news of Nokia admitting that it needs better software. I'm unable to find this article, but this one from January (http://www.macworld.com/article/131826/2008/01/.html) has Nokia buying a software company for that very purpose. No matter how you slice it, this is all good news for iPhone, Blackberry and Nokia phone users.

[Captain Jack]

The point is, it's way easier for Apple to add these little trinkets to the iPhone, ie - bigger camera, GPS chip etc, (from a development point of view it's not a major hassle) then it is for Apple's competitors to come up with an OS like OS-X (now that friends, is the task of the century) or a quality multitouch interface. You don't come up with that sort of stuff overnight or over a year, or over 10 years. There are still no G1 iPhone killers, and iPhone 2 is just around the corner. Watching how Apple have entered this market is like poetry in motion.

[satchmo]

I think the key difference between the two smartphone makers will be the OS.

RIM is essentially asking it's developers to work within a user interface (physical keyboard) that have existed for years. Limitation and thinking inside the box.

Apple however, has moved on with future applications that take advantage of touch screen technology. It just has so much more potential and a whole generation ahead of the RIM OS.

[the cool gut]

There will continue to be room in the marketplace for both competitors, just like MS and Apple. No one company has a one-size-fits-all solution.

I couldn't disagree more. RIM is dead in the water. Will most likely be bought by MS some time in the future.

I've had a blackberry for nearly 5 years. Beyond a prettier screen, that STUPID fucking "pearl" roller, NOTHING has changed. In 5 YEARS. Their only feature is PUSH email. That's it, nothing else. They don't have the software or developer base to even come close to being able to compete with the iPhone.

Sure they did well, when competing against a bunch of other 3rd rate companies like Samsung and Motorola - but they don't have a snowballs chance in hell to compete with Apple. Their last holdout is corporations who have invested heavily in their proprietary push email service.

[solipsism]

I couldn't disagree more. RIM is dead in the water. Will most likely be bought by MS some time in the future.

I've had a blackberry for nearly 5 years. Beyond a prettier screen, that STUPID fucking "pearl" roller, NOTHING has changed. In 5 YEARS. Their only feature is PUSH email. That's it, nothing else. They don't have the software or developer base to even come close to being able to compete with the iPhone.

Sure they did well, when competing against a bunch of other 3rd rate companies like Samsung and Motorola - but they don't have a snowballs chance in hell to compete with Apple. Their last holdout is corporations who have invested heavily in their proprietary push email service.

But that before the iPhone upstaged everyone's UI and made large, high res, multi-touch, capacitance screens, large flash capacities, motion sensors, and accelerometers seem like they should be the norm rather than the exception.

RiM is far from "dead" in any aspect—and you can find BB users as fervent about their phones are iPhone users are—though will be losing marketshare this year with the Exchange support coming to mOS X v2.0. They're putting a $150M incentive for new apps and I'm sure they will hiring a large number of software engineers or buying a firm like Nokia did to step up their game

As for MS buying RiM, I think they would if they could, but a market valuation of $80 Billion makes that tough.

[k2director]

This guber of a phone will appeal to hard-core Blackberry fans, but it's not going to prevent a bunch of Blackberry defections to the iPhone, and it's certainly not going to win RIM any more marketshare now that Apple is in the game.

Really, who thinks the Bold is going to capture the public's imagination like the iPhone has? How many regular, non-business users are going to say to themselves, "I want that Blackberry with the tiny screen and cramped keyboard, which tacked on music and movies and photos as an after-thought!"? It's just not going to happen.

On the other hand, I bet Apple will be able to lure away a bunch of former Blackberry users with iPhone 2.0 (and hardware upgrade to 3G).

RIM, you've been out-maneuvered. You defined your market as "business" (which is fairly limited), and then built a product with that market in mind. Apple created a product aimed at a much broader market (like a PC versus a dedicated word processor), and it's going to start eating away at your narrow position.

I'm not saying that RIM is going be over-run in the near term, but I think it's going to be forced to stick with the limited business market, instead of growing beyond that, which is something that RIM hoped to do.

[monstrosity]

The point is, it's way easier for Apple to add these little trinkets to the iPhone ... then it is for Apple's competitors to come up with an OS like OS-X (now that friends, is the task of the century)

ha indeed. you dont recreate this kind of thing overnight, no matter how many dollars you throw at it. its hard to fathom how any company can possibly compete.
The original creators of the OS, light years head start, the best brains in the business, and almost faultless vision.

Give up :)

It was obvious 5 years ago that once the processing power of the mobile phone was capable of running proper applications, then everyone else would be left for dust.
I have friends in the business franticly trying to create competing products for large multinationals I cant mention, I have told them they may as well give up, but they wont listen :lol:

They always ran second in school exams and lacked imagination, now thousands of shareholders gamble their millions on them. Damned if thats where I'm investing my money. AAPL for the long haul.

And thank god for the anonymity of the internet, else i'd be a few friends down right now.

[JeffDM]

I love the Iphone but the Iphone was a copy of LG's Prada. It's just the Prada was never sold here.

I'd like you to explain how Apple could copy LG when both were announced and displayed within like a week of each other.

[JeffDM]

For the rest of your lives, you Blackberry users and RIM employees will get to look back at the best blackberry phone ever made, and resign yourselves to the fact that its a weak-ass iPhone ripoff.

They didn't even TRY to hide it.

Look at it.

Its an iPhone with QWERTY. But not as cool, useful, or pleasing the touch....

The screen interface is quite far from it. Most UIs that try to copy Apple use icons that look like Apple's, down to the color choices, the icons are quite a bit different here. Some of the icons are clearly inspired by Apple's, but with several icons, they at least do something quite different, as well as going with a different look. I think Google's Android used a square book with brown spiral binding with tan covers "@" on the friont for their address book. This thing's address book looks nothing like Apple's.

I see the similarities, but I really don't think anyone's going to confuse this with the iPhone. The trim color, aspect ratio and curves are different.

But, "Bold"? As much as I'm getting irritated by Apple's lame iCamelCase naming system, Bold sounds like an uppity energy drink that causes intestinal cramping.

[inkswamp]

There are no towels being thrown here.

There is a towel being thrown in. The reaction of competitors to the iPod and the iPhone reminds me of the Pepsi-vs-Coke wars of the 80s. Coke pretty decisively lost that battle by changing Coke to be more Pepsi-like. In doing that, Coke showed everyone how completely lacking in confidence they were about their own product. When a company comes along and imitates the competitor too closely, it sends a weird lack-of-confidence message to the consumer. It says, "We don't believe in what we were doing before so we need to make our new products more like this other well-known product." In the minds of a lot of consumers, the question comes down to "Why shouldn't I just buy the original, then?"

So you bet there is a towel being thrown in. It may not spell the end of RiM, but it's a dumb move to imitate any competitor too closely.

[Foo2]

There's a reason they didn't name it Beautiful.

[solipsism]

So you bet there is a towel being thrown in. It may not spell the end of RiM, but it's a dumb move to imitate any competitor too closely.

1) I don't see this as an imitation of the iPhone—they even have a QWERTY keyboard on the device—just that cell phone manufacturers are finally stepping up their game.

2) "To throw in the towel" means to admit defeat. I see no admitting of defeat here, only that they are gearing up for a big fight. ...So begins the phone wars.

[solipsism]

But, "Bold"? As much as I'm getting irritated by Apple's lame iCamelCase naming system, Bold sounds like an uppity energy drink that causes intestinal cramping.

Compared to Italic and Underline it's a great name.

[JeffDM]

Compared to Italic and Underline it's a great name.

:lol:

[JeffDM]

Sure they did well, when competing against a bunch of other 3rd rate companies like Samsung and Motorola - but they don't have a snowballs chance in hell to compete with Apple. Their last holdout is corporations who have invested heavily in their proprietary push email service.

I wouldn't count them out that quickly. For nine months out of the last fiscal year, despite competing against the iPhone for 3/4ths of the year, they still doubled their revenue and profits over the previous year.

[Frank777]

This is great from an innovation point of view. We have RIM going first, Apple announcing in June and Palm's new device coming late in '08.

Best of all, it doesn't matter who wins this fight. Microsoft loses in every scenario. :D

[Frank777]

...only that they are gearing up for a big fight. ...So begins the phone wars.

I love the Star Wars reference. I am such a geek...:lol:

[solipsism]

I wouldn't count them out that quickly. For nine months out of the last fiscal year, despite competing against the iPhone for 3/4ths of the year, they still doubled their revenue and profits over the previous year.

Over the last 2 years RiM's stock has gone from $20 to the $140 it is now, though it was at $140 per share 6 months ago before the drop. That is a 600% increase compared to Apple's 300% and Nokia' 100% increase over the same time frame.

[labrats5]

I'm personally loving this. Nothing is better than some healthy competition, and the Blackberry Bold looks like a decent rival for the iphone. RIM has lots of fight in them.

Now to see what Cupertino has up its sleeve.

RIM and Apple are going to double their market share, together. There are a lot of handsets out there, and very few of them are smart phones. Only RIM and Apple seem to have any idea at all what there doing, so even if RIM can't make a better phone than Apple, as long as they make a decent one, the market shift towards smartphones will benefit them because they still hit all four carriers.

[Tofino]

There will continue to be room in the marketplace for both competitors, just like MS and Apple. No one company has a one-size-fits-all solution.

I tend to agree with that. the iphone vs. blackberry wars are as tediously boring as the osx/windows battles. there are plenty of crackberry addicts that would never dream of touching an iphone, and as long as they have their chiclet keyboards, they are going to be happy.

i'm sure it's not a coincidence that the bold's styling is very similar to the iphone's, but that just reinforces the perception that apple is a leader when it comes to style. i'm sure mr. jobs is flattered and a healthy competition keeps everybody on their toes.

i for one don't think that RIM is going to roll over dead any time soon, and in the long run that is good news for all of us. microsoft however has something to worry about... you don't hear a lot of hype about their offerings in the mobile phone business.

[Delfoniq]

BlackBerry Bold stands as 3G iPhone's chief rival

No, it doesn't...:smokey:

[Tofino]

*cough*

Ericsson R380

http://www.gsmarena.com/ericsson_r380-pictures-195.php

There were plenty of touchscreen phones before the iPhone and Prada.

lets go back five years earlier, to 1995, shall we? ;)

http://www.msu.edu/~luckie/gallery/marco.htm

[Akac]

What they never show is the interface beyond the home screen, which looks cramped and difficult to read.

Goodness knows what this is like to develop for — I see no Xcode and IB. Everything about the software stack looks primitive compared to the very high bar set by Apple.

http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/features/blackberry_maps_found.gif

Compare and contrast with iPhone's Google Maps client.

Actually its not bad to develop for. Pretty easy. We use the BlackBerry IDE and Java APIs. But yes, the UI beyond the main home screen can be very DOS-ish. But that simplicity and performance is what many people like.

[inkswamp]

1) I don't see this as an imitation of the iPhone—they even have a QWERTY keyboard on the device—just that cell phone manufacturers are finally stepping up their game.

A lot of big names in the cell phone market have already unveiled iPhone-like devices. IMO, RiM really does need to be careful not to be perceived as doing the same.

2) "To throw in the towel" means to admit defeat. I see no admitting of defeat here, only that they are gearing up for a big fight. ...So begins the phone wars.

Let's clarify. I don't mean "throw in the towel" in the big sense of giving up completely. That would be silly, especially for RiM. I meant it in the sense of admitting that their concepts and designs don't live up to the iPhone and trying to tack on some wanna-be iPhone-isms. When that happens, they run the risk of being perceived as an also-ran in a market where they are amongst the leaders. History has shown that when a company allows themselves to be perceived that way, it's the start of a long downward spiral.

I've already mentioned the Coke-vs-Pepsi thing, but also look at Microsoft. They've imitated the look of OS X to such an extent that they can't do anything without it being compared unfavorably to Macs--and they are way ahead of Apple in terms of market share. It doesn't make sense but MS is perpetually fighting the image that they are trying desperately to keep up with Apple. I suspect that image is one of the reasons Apple is seeing so many new users lately.

[AdamC]

Judging from the way RIM share price is moving I believe some vulture funds will be shorting this stock in the future, all it needs is just one bad quarter, I just hope I am wrong.

[columbus]

There's a reason they didn't name it Beautiful.

Very good… ;)

Actually its not bad to develop for. Pretty easy. We use the BlackBerry IDE and Java APIs. But yes, the UI beyond the main home screen can be very DOS-ish. But that simplicity and performance is what many people like.

That's interesting that they do have some tools in place. They also have plugins for both Eclipse and Visual Studio, which are both pretty good IDEs.

I still remained to be convinced. People may like simplicity and performance, but when you combine simplicity and performance with great user experience it wins every time.

[Marvin]

The Blackberry doesn't have Super Monkey Ball, which is kind of a deal-breaker among executives if you ask me.

After using iphone touch, keyboards just seem like such a hassle. Blackberry owners will probably upgrade to this because it's what they know but on a usability level, once the iphone SDK gets in motion, Blackberry is behind the times.

[irnchriz]

I love the Iphone but the Iphone was a copy of LG's Prada. It's just the Prada was never sold here.

The iPhone was demoed long before the Prada hit the streets. Also the Prada and its big brother the Viewty (Ku990) have a terrible touch screen that you have to press down on (similar to windows mobile pda's) Plus their interface is slow and clunky. And neither device features multi-touch!

I have the KU990 and it seemed ok till I got my iPhone now I hardly use the viewty the iPhone screen and interface make the LG products feel like cheap crap.

[Quillz]

So far, the 3G iPhone has yet to be officially unveiled, so it's still a mythical device. (Though it's obviously coming very soon.) But, until it's officially unveiled, I believe RIM has the advantage with the Blackberry 9000. There are still many people out there who dislike touch screens and prefer keyboards. RIM has responded to this by providing an improved Blackberry with 3G support.

So the Blackberry people get 3G and the iPhone people will be getting 3G. See? We don't need to go to war over this, we can coexist peacefully. Everyone wins.

[anantksundaram]

(RIM) Will most likely be bought by MS some time in the future.


You may have something there! Nice. ;)

[Gee4orce]

For all the talk* of RIM 'beating' Apple to the punch with 3G etc, let's not forget that there's still no launch date for this device, so it's highly likely we'll be browsing the web on our 3G iPhones a month or so before this Blackberry hits the streets.

There is nothing here that will attract an iPhone user to switch to a Blackberry. It does provide an alternative for someone who's looking to get a new phone, but wants a physical keyboard - but I really think that the vast majority of people would go for a sexed up iPhone over a RIM. This in reality is just a device for RIM to cling on to it's current customers who are thinking of switching to an iPhone, as as such it's something of a sign of desperation. The developer fund definitely is desperation.


* not in this thread, but it's been a headline elsewhere on the web.

[murphyweb]

The 3G Blackberry 8707 has been in existence for well over a year. Just not in the US. So this Blackberry is certainly not the first 3G Blackberry to be released. I know becasue last year I was using a 8707 on 3G in Australia. I only ditched it this year for the 8120 because I wanted a smaller phone as my new tiny Dell laptop has 3G.

Why do some people have a belief that in order to be an Apple fan you must automatically assume that anybody else's products are rubbish? What a really stupid way to live your life!

Blackberry is an excellent product, and it is going to be near impossible for the iPhone to even think about taking the enterprise business away from it. Most users do not have a say in what phone their employers give them, at the best they get a choice of which Blackberry. Your average IT Manager is not going to be allowed to buy iPhones for his fleet, on what grounds is he going to push a business case for it? It just aint gonna happen.

I sell mobile technology and apps for large corporates and enterprise for a living. I am telling you that for the foreseeable future it just aint going to happen. So come on folks be a little more serious in your expectations for the iPhone.

The iPhone is okay but there is no way I would swap it for my Blackberry 8120, not in a million years. It is brilliant, okay no 3G but has wifi and edge but suits my business needs perfectly. My tiny dell laptop has 3G and that is all I need for real corporate access.

At home I use a Mac Book Pro, my wife has a mac book, I have just about every Apple gadget under the sun in my house. It is great for home. But for Business it is Dell and Blackberry and I just cannot see that changing for a long time yet.

[parky]

I love the Iphone but the Iphone was a copy of LG's Prada. It's just the Prada was never sold here.

I have both the Prada phone and iPhone and there is no comparison!
While the style maybe similar the operation and use is not.
The Prada phone feels like a toy and operates like one.

[bavlondon2]

Which fool said this is iphones main rival? Iphone is a multimedia centric based device. A blackberrys main function is push email so is a business device. I must admit though for those who just need to make calls and do basic things it should be a great device.

I have both the Prada phone and iPhone and there is no comparison!
While the style maybe similar the operation and use is not.
The Prada phone feels like a toy and operates like one.

Yeah true but the LG Viewty overtook iphone in terms of sales only a few weeks into launch. It must be way ahead of iphone now.

Also how was the Prada a copy of iphone? It was announced before iphone was lol

[JeffDM]

Also how was the Prada a copy of iphone?

I don't remember anyone saying that. One person called the iphone a copy of the prada, but that's an equally ludicrous claim.

It's just fodder for an ignoramus to spout.

[Hattig]

If the iPhone is making RIM work harder to create better phones, then that is good for the market, it will drive Apple to do the same. End result: far better phones all round. Apple will have a good all rounder, but many people will want something that Apple will never provide, such as a keyboard, and they will use an alternative.

The companies relying on a third party to provide the software enhancements will be out of luck, they don't have the ability to simply change the system - maybe a fancy interface layer is possible, but not much in the core system - so Windows Mobile phones just fall further and further behind. And that's the best thing that can happen to such an awful product.

[auxio]

I seriously thought this was another Photoshop joke until I saw it on the Blackberry website... wow... that's all I can say.

[blingem]

The point is, it's way easier for Apple to add these little trinkets to the iPhone, ie - bigger camera, GPS chip etc, (from a development point of view it's not a major hassle) then it is for Apple's competitors to come up with an OS like OS-X (now that friends, is the task of the century) or a quality multitouch interface. You don't come up with that sort of stuff overnight or over a year, or over 10 years. There are still no G1 iPhone killers, and iPhone 2 is just around the corner. Watching how Apple have entered this market is like poetry in motion.

OSX: task of the century???

This is what makes me sick about this forum. OSX > DaVinci's helecopter, OSX > the green revolution, OSX > winning WWII, OSX > coding the human genome. For the sake of humanity, I sure hope OSX is not the task of the century.

All you apple fanboi's aren't remotely objective about the blackberry either. When some competitive company comes out w/ a device that uses a black&silver color scheme, all of AI and MacRumors says "hey, we invented the black and silver color scheme!?!?! And the black back plate too!!!"

Blackberry is awesome. It is essentially for all the people who say "I already have an ipod." You can guarantee that the yuppie hillites in DC will be using the BOLD cause thats what all their yuppie friends have.

[bavlondon2]

OSX: task of the century???

This is what makes me sick about this forum. OSX > DaVinci's helecopter, OSX > the green revolution, OSX > winning WWII, OSX > coding the human genome. For the sake of humanity, I sure hope OSX is not the task of the century.

All you apple fanboi's aren't remotely objective about the blackberry either. When some competitive company comes out w/ a device that uses a black&silver color scheme, all of AI and MacRumors says "hey, we invented the black and silver color scheme!?!?! And the black back plate too!!!"

Blackberry is awesome. It is essentially for all the people who say "I already have an ipod." You can guarantee that the yuppie hillites in DC will be using the BOLD cause thats what all their yuppie friends have.

Well put. And I thought I was the only normal person on here. Kudos sir.

[ZagMac]

There will continue to be room in the marketplace for both competitors, just like MS and Apple. No one company has a one-size-fits-all solution.

Well-said. The black or white responses to this article remind me why I have a love/hate relationship with reading all the posts. No single device is right for everyone, nor can the whole market for either be encapsulated with a single statement of what it's consumers want.

I work for a competing wireless company to at&t, and yes I would love to have the iPhone as an option for us. But despite my growing Apple loyalty, the iPhone it's current state is not for me. A phone that big will never be in my pocket again. While I somehow used to stuff a Motorola 750 in my back pocket, my everyday phone needs to be smaller. And has been pointed out here several times, heavy email/texting with touch screen does not suit everyone. I happi9ly use my Touch to email when using WiFi, but as a daily option need a real set of keys.

Best thing to happen for the millions of people like me? Yes, all these companies finally feel the pressure to deliver better devices.

Just my 2 cents on it to help those feel need to talk in "battle is won" understand thinks are slightly more complex than that.

[tompauly]

going to stay the same. form factor gets a tiny bit of a change, a little thicker to accommodate radios and battery, but the aluminum stays. have it on insider info from someone at a partner company who has seen it...

[tobyfoote]

The Blackberry Bold looks awesome. Very nice styling with a full QWERTY. I wonder how it will sync with iTunes... More importantly, I wonder how it will sync with Entourage, the Address Book and iCal. That's the one thing pulling me to the iPhone this year -- I want my contact information effortlessly fed to my phone. If there was a Gmail contacts auto-sync (that worked) for either phone, that would be a major win.

[bavlondon2]

Yeah it looks really great. OS looks as fast as even iphone and the build and design look of the highest quality. Im seriously considering this phone. Also I read they will soon hook up some sort of partnership with Microsoft for Windows live Hotmail and messenger services.

[Outsider]

Seems like they have something else up their sleeve: http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/13/blackberry-touchscreen-phone-to-be-dubbed-thunder/

[TBaggins]

The BB Bold looks nice, but the BB Thunder may be even cooler... full-touchscreen Crackberry!:


Are you ready? The BlackBerry Thunder, as it is codenamed now, (all you "reporting" on it as the Storm are incorrect) will launch in Q3 of this year. It is a full touchscreen BlackBerry — no slide out keyboard — with only 4 physical keys. Those are the send / end phone keys, the BlackBerry menu key, and the back key. Here is the most interesting part, though: it will launch as a worldwide lifetime exclusive on Verizon and Vodafone.


Here's a pic of what it might look like... repeat, there's no real pics yet, AFAIK:





http://www.boygeniusreport.com/wp-content/uploads/image/blackberry9500.jpg





http://gizmodo.com/389923/touchscreen-blackberry-thunder-coming-exclusively-to-verizon
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/05/13/blackberry-thunder-the-touchscreen-blackberry-weve-all-been-waiting-for/#comments


Interesting that it's a VZW & Vodaphone exclusive (for those who don't know, Voda owns 45 percent of Verizon).




.

[solipsism]

The BB Bold is very nice, but the BB Thunder may be outta this world... full-touchscreen Crackberry!.\

If it does look like then we can cry foul on RiM for coping the iPhone.

[TBaggins]

If it does look like then we can cry foul on RiM for coping the iPhone.


I agree.

The funny part was that ppl were crying about the Bold copying the iPhone (the Bold actually looks more like past BBs than it does an iPhone), when they hadn't even seen THIS yet! :lol:


.

[ecking]

wooo i like this phone.

seriously, if blackberrys could run OSX i'd never even bother with an iphone. i dont need the features the iphone offers, and i cant stand texting on it. that is the edge the blackberry gets with me over the iphone-typing on it is flawless.

Yeah I guess I kinda agree iphone ui with a tactile keyboard would be kinda nice. It'd be cool to have options, but whatever, the iphone does what it does well.

[auxio]

If it does look like then we can cry foul on RiM for coping the iPhone.I already cry foul with the Blackberry Bold. Lets list the similarities:

Tall, rounded rectangular shape. All of the Blackberries I saw prior to the release of the iPhone were short and wide.
Shiny black face with metallic trim (as has been mentioned numerous times).
Speaker hole styling.
Date and time on screen use very similar font and styling.
Major function icons on the bottom of the screen with black background.
I'll venture a guess: the button in the middle takes you back to the main screen?

Seeing the Blackberry Bold makes me feel like RIM is becoming more like a knockoff manufacturer than an innovator (as they were when the Blackberry first came out). For me, it's important to recognize and put my money behind other companies which innovate given that my line of work also requires technical innovation.

[solipsism]

Seeing this phone makes me feel like RIM is becoming more like a knockoff manufacturer than an innovator (as they were when the Blackberry first came out).

Note that the mockup mage above is not done by RiM.

[auxio]

Note that the mockup mage above is not done by RiM.Yeah, I know. I'm talking about the Blackberry Bold. To me, it basically looks like an iPhone with a keyboard.

[solipsism]

Yeah, I know. I'm talking about the Blackberry Bold. To me, it basically looks like an iPhone with a keyboard.

Gotcha.

[murphyweb]

I already cry foul with the Blackberry Bold. Lets list the similarities:

Tall, rounded rectangular shape. All of the Blackberries I saw prior to the release of the iPhone were short and wide.
Shiny black face with metallic trim (as has been mentioned numerous times).
Speaker hole styling.
Date and time on screen use very similar font and styling.
Major function icons on the bottom of the screen with black background.
I'll venture a guess: the button in the middle takes you back to the main screen?

Seeing the Blackberry Bold makes me feel like RIM is becoming more like a knockoff manufacturer than an innovator (as they were when the Blackberry first came out). For me, it's important to recognize and put my money behind other companies which innovate given that my line of work also requires technical innovation.

So this post tells me you never saw the Pearl?

You don't half talk some rubbish, companies have been making phones for many years without Apples help. My Nokia I had in 1996 looked kind of like an iPhone, there is only so much you can do with phone design. A speaker at one end, a microphone at the other, a screen and some kind of user interface. Usability dictates that it must be a rectangle shape. How many ways can this basic phone design be altered? Not very many.

Back when Apple were designing white boxes there were phone companies making black phones, some of these had metallic trim. Did I hear you complain that the iPhone was ripping of other ideas when it was released? Don't think so.

You want to talk about innovation? Then talk about Nokia and Ericcson who transformed the communications market, building a new business and more or less being responsible for the way mobile phone networks have grown over the years. I know they were not as big in the US but in reality the US was late to the party on mobile phones and have been playing catch-up ever since, hence why Europe and Japan have always had better and more sophisticated mobile devices.

*Nokia and Erricson also design and manufacture the core network technology that forms the mobile voice networks.

Talk about Blackberry who pioneered a secure, stable and smart method for enterprise communications and then proceeded to build a business worth $80billion by giving people exactly what they wanted.

Apple have just come along and entered a ready made market with a single product offering that does not really compare with many of the devices already available on mobile features. Yes it is a better ipod/browser/ fun device etc.. But it does not come close to a fully featured Nokia or Blackberry in terms of being a mobile phone. Not yet anyway.

Apple have a long way to go if they are dreaming of taking Nokia or RIM's crown, they have a lot to learn about designing mobile phones. I am not saying they cannot do it, it depends on how serious they are and how much money they are prepared to throw at it. But it is far too early for anybody to be saying some of the things that you have said with regard to Apples Innovative design approach.

Apple's design is not that brilliant, I know, I have enough Apple products to know that they are good but not as good as what many people on here seem to think. But the one thing Apple has got going for them is Steve Jobs, the man is the greatest salesman in the world. Apple are nothing more than a marketing company, Job's convinces people that this stuff is so fantastic and they fall for it. That is a huge advantage to Apple in whatever they decide to do.

I am not saying Apple stuff is rubbish, but it certainly is not as great as what you seem to think. There are some great products out there from other vendors and the people who shut themselves out because they are not Apple are not really qualified enough to enter a discussion on the matter.

[Frank777]

The Blackberry Bold isn't a copy of the iPhone by any means.

RIM's devices went from Blue to Black a long time ago, and the device still has clear design cues from past RIM devices. Apple did not invent sleek black phones, or a Home button on the screen.

The iPhone vs Blackberry boils down to a simple question: email or web-browsing?

Apple has bet that the web is the future of the phone, and so went for a larger screen (text retrieval) with less focus on text input (real keyboard). It's a good bet.

RIM predates the affordable mobile web, and focuses on connectivity over web experience.

If you're a rabid texter, the Bold will be the better device for you. But the iPhone is built for general use, and will likely dominate.

For RIM to do well, they must not fall into the trap that Corel and others fell into and program for Windows only. Microsoft understood the need for cross-platform solutions and dominated office productivity for a long time. Ditto for Apple and the iPod.

If RIM is to survive the war (and not get bought out) they need to ensure the Blackberry works on the Mac well enough to be taken seriously. Otherwise, they are just handing 20-30% of the market (Mac and Linux-on-Mac users and their circle of influence) to the iPhone, and they will lose ground steadily.

[rnaoncfixd]

... without a 3.5" screen, however, who would want to even dare use that for web browsing or watching video.

How about all those people who have the iPod Nano? Granted you're not surfing the web, but I have seen people use it to watch movies and shows.



As for this topic, I think it's great that this phone has come out. Whatever competition can match Apple, Apple will do it's hardest to compete. I don't think it's great, I just like the physical nature of the keyboard on it, even though my fingers usually hit like two or three keys at once.

[murphyweb]

If RIM is to survive the war (and not get bought out) they need to ensure the Blackberry works on the Mac well enough to be taken seriously. Otherwise, they are just handing 20-30% of the market (Mac and Linux-on-Mac users and their circle of influence) to the iPhone, and they will lose ground steadily.

Simply not true. There is no war. Blackberry's core business is the Enterprise, they dominate that market and sales are going through the roof. The only place that Iphone is taking market share is in the home user market and small to medium business market, and with that the iPhone is not really taking market share but creating market share.

The Enterprise is never going to be a mac playing field, It just is not going to happen anytime soon but I doubt ever at all.

So the only way that supporting Mac OS becomes important to the future of RIM is if they want to significantly grow their home userbase, some people claim the Pearl was an attempt at this. I am not so sure. While I am sure RIM would like a bigger customer base of home users it certainly is not nor ever will be their core business. They have little to fear from Apple on that front while at the same time Apple have little to fear from RIM in the home space.

This is just business as usual.

[murphyweb]

As for this topic, I think it's great that this phone has come out. Whatever competition can match Apple, Apple will do it's hardest to compete. I don't think it's great, I just like the physical nature of the keyboard on it, even though my fingers usually hit like two or three keys at once.

Damn right, that is why I would never buy an iPhone. I like to feel my keys when I am texting or typing. Despite what Apple think hard keys are never going out of fashion, the vast majority of mobile phones sold for the next 10 years will have hard keys. I doubt that touch screen devices will even make for 1% of mobiles sold in 10 years time.

RIM are so big because they make such great, perfect devices. They make what the customer wants. It is important to remember this. Despite how great OSX is and how nice my MBP looks on my desk nobody has ever accused Apple of listening to their customers and building what they want. I am not even sure they do any market research at all. They just build something and tell you that you need it.

[thompr]

They're putting a $150M incentive for new apps and I'm sure they will hiring a large number of software engineers or buying a firm like Nokia did to step up their game.

But look at the constraints that the RIM application developers will be saddled with. All input must be assigned to physical buttons... no screen interaction that the developer is free to configure for the most pleasant (and intuitive) interface. And the Apple iPhone SDK is truly a marvelous development platform. Neither of these observations should be under-appreciated, nor are they easy to overcome by a company like RIM.

This "bold" move by RIM is a necessary, but not sufficient, move to remain relevant. So kudos to them. But if they cannot push further into the realm of the iPhone, or better yet, beyond, then I agree with others. They are not dead yet, but they are on death row and hoping for a pardon. I give them 3-5 years before death unless they go well beyond the "Bold".

Thompson

[columbus]

They make what the customer wants. It is important to remember this. Despite how great OSX is and how nice my MBP looks on my desk nobody has ever accused Apple of listening to their customers and building what they want. I am not even sure they do any market research at all. They just build something and tell you that you need it.

That's sort of true. But not quite accurate. Apple build products they think people will like and they get judged on whether the public buy them (or not as the case may be). Take MacBook Air — clearly a gamble, a test. Many people liked it and many people brought it. Apple makes blunders and the result is people don't buy. That's far removed on telling someone that they need your products. It's called being judged on your actions.

The problem with focus groups is that so many of us rarely know what we want and will only ever base our needs on previous experience.

How many people wanted a GUI in 1983? How many even knew what a GUI was?
Who wanted in iPod in 2000? Who owned or used a digital music player in 2000?

Don't get me wrong — good, sometimes great, products come out of focus groups. Revolutionary products never ever come out of focus groups. If you shoot for the moon, you don't start with a focus group or market research.

Apple uses plenty of market research. When buying my MacBook from the Apple Store I was invited to fill out a feedback form in an email which arrived a few days later. When receiving Apple Care support I was also invited to provide feedback on the experience.

Apple is not as arrogant as many like to believe — they do listen. They just don't believe that Joe and Joanne Average can do a better job of designing products than their hand picked, immensely talented and well motivated staff. And to be quite frank neither do I.

The wisdom of many is not always greater than the wisdom of a few.

Disclaimer:
I'm not saying every product Apple makes is revolutionary (as no doubt people will misinterpret) or that only Apple makes revolutionary products (as no doubt people will misinterpret).

And Remember:
A camel is a horse designed by a committee.

[Adjei]

So this post tells me you never saw the Pearl?

You don't half talk some rubbish, companies have been making phones for many years without Apples help. My Nokia I had in 1996 looked kind of like an iPhone, there is only so much you can do with phone design. A speaker at one end, a microphone at the other, a screen and some kind of user interface. Usability dictates that it must be a rectangle shape. How many ways can this basic phone design be altered? Not very many.

Back when Apple were designing white boxes there were phone companies making black phones, some of these had metallic trim. Did I hear you complain that the iPhone was ripping of other ideas when it was released? Don't think so.

You want to talk about innovation? Then talk about Nokia and Ericcson who transformed the communications market, building a new business and more or less being responsible for the way mobile phone networks have grown over the years. I know they were not as big in the US but in reality the US was late to the party on mobile phones and have been playing catch-up ever since, hence why Europe and Japan have always had better and more sophisticated mobile devices.

*Nokia and Erricson also design and manufacture the core network technology that forms the mobile voice networks.

Talk about Blackberry who pioneered a secure, stable and smart method for enterprise communications and then proceeded to build a business worth $80billion by giving people exactly what they wanted.

Apple have just come along and entered a ready made market with a single product offering that does not really compare with many of the devices already available on mobile features. Yes it is a better ipod/browser/ fun device etc.. But it does not come close to a fully featured Nokia or Blackberry in terms of being a mobile phone. Not yet anyway.

Apple have a long way to go if they are dreaming of taking Nokia or RIM's crown, they have a lot to learn about designing mobile phones. I am not saying they cannot do it, it depends on how serious they are and how much money they are prepared to throw at it. But it is far too early for anybody to be saying some of the things that you have said with regard to Apples Innovative design approach.

Apple's design is not that brilliant, I know, I have enough Apple products to know that they are good but not as good as what many people on here seem to think. But the one thing Apple has got going for them is Steve Jobs, the man is the greatest salesman in the world. Apple are nothing more than a marketing company, Job's convinces people that this stuff is so fantastic and they fall for it. That is a huge advantage to Apple in whatever they decide to do.

I am not saying Apple stuff is rubbish, but it certainly is not as great as what you seem to think. There are some great products out there from other vendors and the people who shut themselves out because they are not Apple are not really qualified enough to enter a discussion on the matter.

Yes we are all complete idiots who have fallen for Apple and Steve Jobs marketing.