O2 Pay & Go iPhones start at £299, make data optional

[AppleInsider]

Apple's exclusive iPhone carrier in the UK announced Wednesday that its Pay & Go customers can purchase a new iPhone 3G without a monthly contract for just 299 euro, but that data use isn't guaranteed with the plans.

"The new 3G 8GB iPhone for Pay & Go will be available for £299.99 and 16GB for £359.99," O2 said in a statement on its tariffs website, with normal calls costing 5p per minute.

Those who spend a minimum amount filling their accounts with call times can also choose from any one of several plans that add "free" features on top of their normal calls. Customers spending between £10 to £14 per month can add 500 minutes of bonus calling time whenever they call from a registered postcode, such as their homes or offices; they can alternately choose a text package that adds 300 SMS messages within the UK, an evenings and weekends package that adds 50 minutes regardless of area, an unlimited O2-to-O2 SMS package, or 100 minutes of international calling from the UK.

Those spending more get additional time, culminating in a £30 minimum that either gives unlimited calls from a specific location and between O2 users, unlimited UK messages, 300 evening and weekend minutes, and 200 international minutes. Most of the plans are only available through O2's online store.



Those prices include unlimited browsing and Wi-Fi for the first six months after customers activate the phone, but are discontinued after the initial period. Customers will afterwards need to spend an extra £10 per month beyond their prepaid voice to maintain the unlimited data access.

At the end of the six months, O2 says it will notify customers at the end of the six month period by text, which will allow them to easily unsubscribe if they choose to do so. Data roaming is allowed but costs as much as £3 per megabyte in European Union nations and £6 elsewhere.

O2 doesn't say whether the Pay As You Go options will be available outside of its official outlets but may depend more heavily on these than on contract signups for its sales: a company official has warned that Apple retail stores may be forced to offer prepaid iPhones without the infrastructure in place to process contract subscribers.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=4255)

[rjdad]

I wish the iPhone's US carrier AT&T come up with such a pre paid plan. I'm ready to pay more money upfront instead of signing up a contract with any wireless carrier. I've a pre paid phone I got from T-Mobile and I get 500+ minutes for $50. Those minutes last for 3 months easily for me. I use cell phone only when its necessary. For people like me, pre paid cards works best. No contract. No monthly wireless bills. No need to track ur minutes around the end of billing cycle.. Imagine getting a top of the line phone along with a worry-free mobile service. And use the Wi-Fi to get online.. Its no secret that Wi-Fi browsing is faster than 3G.

[merdhead]

So the unsubsidised, retail price of the phone is over $600. Where are all the morons who told me I was pulling figures out the air when I suggested this two weeks ago? They wouldn't know analysis if it chased them down the street and bit them on the arse.

I still can't understand why people keep on referring to the retail price of the phone at $199 when it's clearly not.

[iDaq]

So if you call from home or work (registered) OK but anywhere else how much does it cost. Also what does brower or WIFI actually mean? Confused from N16.

[tomozj]

Pretty good from O2, I believe. 300 UK texts + £10 call credit would suit me just fine, especially with 5p calls.

Also @ iDaq, the word "brower" isn't in the article, and WIFI is the term used for a wireless local network, such as internet access in a Starbucks.

[timh02]

why don`t they just work out a fair plan, without all the traps.
I can upgrade to the new 3G phonr for just £10 per month, and pass on my v1 iphone to my daughter
as a pay as you go. seeing this plan she may as well forgo the visual voice mail and sign up for a standard plan with any other provieder.

[Boogerman2000]

So the unsubsidised, retail price of the phone is over $600. Where are all the morons who told me I was pulling figures out the air when I suggested this two weeks ago? They wouldn't know analysis if it chased them down the street and bit them on the arse.

I still can't understand why people keep on referring to the retail price of the phone at $199 when it's clearly not.

I think that there is going to be a great deal of disappointed people out there who don't follow these forums, and just don't understand that the retail price is in fact going to be much greater than they thought. $199 with a contract, probably $600 + without? I haven't heard wether or not the phone is even available without a contract in the US, though I'm guessing by law, it has to be? :\

[columbus]

The Free Data + WiFi for 6 months is something I wasn't expected and it is nice. It seems O2 is doing their best to make the iPhone a real success in the UK.

I know it's to get customers hooked on data, but 6 months is a pretty long time.

[nagromme]

A no-data plan would be a great option for many, if not MOST people. An iPod Touch is still a useful Internet device, even with nothing but WiFi. A voice-only iPhone would be the same.

I hope they offer no-data options in the US. I'd be tempted.

[cameronj]

I think that there is going to be a great deal of disappointed people out there who don't follow these forums, and just don't understand that the retail price is in fact going to be much greater than they thought. $199 with a contract, probably $600 + without?

There won't be any disappointed people. Everyone in the US buys a cell phone with a contract. The tiny percentage who don't are chalked up (accurately) as the sliver of the population who are not happy about anything that has to do with withdrawals from their wallet.

[dookie852]

Fucking Apple is really screwing U.S. purchasers buy wedding us to the evil empire. I freaking hate the death star. Europeans are so much more advance than us with their wireless technology and unteathered freedom when it comes to carrier choice. :devil:

[samab]

Fucking Apple is really screwing U.S. purchasers buy wedding us to the evil empire. I freaking hate the death star. Europeans are so much more advance than us with their wireless technology and unteathered freedom when it comes to carrier choice. :devil:

$600 will buy you a simlocked iphone from O2.

Haven't you learned anything from the iphone launch in Europe 6 months ago --- Europeans were stuck to the same simlocked iphone as Americans did.

[Hutcho]

Man, you guys in the UK have it good. These are plans we could only dream about here in Germany. Unlimited data for 10 pounds! We have to pay 35 euros (almost 30 pounds) for that privilege! And 5p (7c) calls are unheard of - minimum here is 9c, and with the big carriers, that's only when you spend around 50 euros a month.. crazy..

I haven't heard wether or not the phone is even available without a contract in the US, though I'm guessing by law, it has to be? :\

Was the first iPhone sold without a contract? That answers your question in regards to the law.

[zeasar]

I dont see any price plans on the page after I hit the link in the post, am I the only one or O2 has pull the details down? :???:

[knightlie]

There won't be any disappointed people. Everyone in the US buys a cell phone with a contract. The tiny percentage who don't are chalked up (accurately) as the sliver of the population who are not happy about anything that has to do with withdrawals from their wallet.

Accurately? :rolleyes: Perhaps they are also people who don't make enough use of the phone to justify an expensive contract. I put no more than £30 per year onto my pay-as-you-go phone - does that make me some kind of skinflint by your criteria, or just someone who has no need of a contract?

[downdinoiling]

Accurately? :rolleyes: Perhaps they are also people who don't make enough use of the phone to justify an expensive contract. I put no more than £30 per year onto my pay-as-you-go phone - does that make me some kind of skinflint by your criteria, or just someone who has no need of a contract?

In 2007 I spent £15 topping up my Orange phone. So far in 2008 I've already spent £15 topping up my phone. Oh God I must cut down on this extravagance right now!

I also get 1825 free Texts a year with this phone because in 2005 I bought from Sainsbury's a £25 Text Card that they actually sold for £2.50. This entitles you to 5 free Texts per day for 1 Year.
Fortunately for me Orange have never stopped the offer and I have continued to get these free Texts 2 and a half years later. :lol:

The iPhone is very Tempting and Desirable as a pay-as-you-go phone but my Sony Ericsson k800i and 16 GB iPod Touch with it's £4 per month 'The Cloud' Wi-fi connection are enough for my needs.

[sapporobaby]

$600 will buy you a simlocked iphone from O2.

Haven't you learned anything from the iphone launch in Europe 6 months ago --- Europeans were stuck to the same simlocked iphone as Americans did.


I do not think this is the case now. It appears here in Finland that the iPhones have to be sold unlocked. But they are still part of a contract. Sonera has not released much info but my friends say that they will be unlocked, and the prices should be around 250/350 Euro respectively for the 8/16 gig models.

[sapporobaby]

Man, you guys in the UK have it good. These are plans we could only dream about here in Germany. Unlimited data for 10 pounds! We have to pay 35 euros (almost 30 pounds) for that privilege! And 5p (7c) calls are unheard of - minimum here is 9c, and with the big carriers, that's only when you spend around 50 euros a month.. crazy..



Was the first iPhone sold without a contract? That answers your question in regards to the law.

They have it even better here in Finland. I pay 9 Euros, all I can eat data. You can get a quality of service package for a bit more, and there are NO caps on the data. Unlimited here means truly unlimted.

[Shaun, UK]

I dont see any price plans on the page after I hit the link in the post, am I the only one or O2 has pull the details down? :???:
According to MacRumors the details were posted on the O2 website and then taken down again. Presumably someone at O2 made a mistake and posted the prices too early. I had a look on the O2 website and it still says that the prices are 'coming soon'. Hopefully these prices are correct as they look good value to me.

[Amorya]

They have it even better here in Finland. I pay 9 Euros, all I can eat data. You can get a quality of service package for a bit more, and there are NO caps on the data. Unlimited here means truly unlimted.

It does here too -- on the iPhone anyway. There was a bit of outcry when they announced "unlimited (fair use 200MB)", so they backtracked and said there were no limits at all.

Amorya

[lfmorrison]

Was the first iPhone sold without a contract? That answers your question in regards to the law.

The first iPhone was sold with a carrier lock, but as you walked out of the store in the USA, you had not yet entered into any contractual obligation to pay AT&T one further cent. You entered into a service contract later on, in the comfort of your own home, via iTunes during activation. Until you went through the activation process, you were the proud owner of a $300 paperweight, but there was no service contract.

So strictly speaking, your first example doesn't actually answer the question of whether or not it is legal in the USA to make the sale of a product contingent on the purchase of a separate, ongoing service contract.

From the information we've received so far, it appears that the new 3G iPhone cannot be bought in the USA unless you allow AT&T to subsidize a portion of the retail price and you simultaneously enter into a service contract with AT&T. If that's actually true, then in Apple/AT&T's opinion, the practice is legal.

[aegisdesign]

Customers spending between £10 to £14 per month can add 500 minutes of bonus calling time whenever they call from a registered postcode, such as their homes or offices;

So, I wonder how many postcode locations you can register? and how you do so?

If so I'll register home (it's also my office), the pub, the cafe...

If they only allow two, then can't you just ring them up and change locations when you want?

I suspect I'll just go for the free texts though.


Those prices include unlimited browsing and Wi-Fi for the first six months after customers activate the phone, but are discontinued after the initial period. Customers will afterwards need to spend an extra £10 per month beyond their prepaid voice to maintain the unlimited data access.

Nice bonus.

So, that means that if you spend £10 a month PAYG and get free data, then £20 a month, an 8GB iPhone will cost £599 over 18 months. That's cheaper than the £30 a month contract tariff that comes in at £639.

If you're not bothered about data and don't use it much for outgoing calls then you're on a winner even if you have to occasionally add a tenner to get data free when you want it.

Totally sold. No contract. No silly credit check fuck ups and the price is ok.

[timgriff84]

I dont see any price plans on the page after I hit the link in the post, am I the only one or O2 has pull the details down? :???:

I can't see them anywhere either. The prices listed look the same as O2's normal pay as you go price plan but if you compare the contract prices the iPhone has a £10 premium (presumably for all those extra "free" features). Im wondering if the tariffs air either wrong and the normal page had got linked to by mistake or they've decided that there wont be any way of stopping customers just sticking a normal pay as you go sim chip in the phone and therefor have to offer the normal prices.

Sounding good to me, I was having a hard time trying to justify the extra monthly price and 18 month contract for something that im mostly going to use to send a couple of text messages a day.

[merdhead]

I think that there is going to be a great deal of disappointed people out there who don't follow these forums, and just don't understand that the retail price is in fact going to be much greater than they thought. $199 with a contract, probably $600 + without? I haven't heard wether or not the phone is even available without a contract in the US, though I'm guessing by law, it has to be? :\
I think becuase of Apple's new wholesale model and unsubed, unlocked phone is a matter of time. Some people just don't like contracts (like me). I have to assume the full retail price will be close to $1000 given that the wholesale price seems to be about $500 and retail is usually 50%. But this is electronics so I can imagine it will be in the range of $700-900, much like the N95.

[Mr Underhill]

So they clearly don't want people to buy it on pay-as-you-go then!!

[samab]

I do not think this is the case now. It appears here in Finland that the iPhones have to be sold unlocked. But they are still part of a contract. Sonera has not released much info but my friends say that they will be unlocked, and the prices should be around 250/350 Euro respectively for the 8/16 gig models.

Carriers in Finland cannot simlock GSM phones by law, but they can simlock 3G phones.

[lfmorrison]

Carriers in Finland cannot simlock GSM phones by law, but they can simlock 3G phones.

True, but Finnish carriers must, upon completion of the contract provide SIM a unlocking service with no fee, and must continue to offer that free service for at least 2 years following the termination of the contract. The contract itself must not exceed two years, and it must be possible to terminate the contract early with 2 weeks' notice if the subscriber's financial situation changes through "mostly no fault of his or her own".

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset/2003/en20030393.pdf
(Finland's Communications Market Act, Section 70 as amended for 3G phones, paragraphs 4 and 6)

[sapporobaby]

True, but Finnish carriers must, upon completion of the contract, or at the latest after 2 years from the date of purchase, (whichever comes first) provide SIM a unlocking service with no fee.

http://www.finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset/2003/en20030393.pdf
(Finland's Communications Market Act, Section 70 as amended for 3G phones, paragraph 6)

Sweet catch. I was told by my friend from Sonera that if you buy out your contract, they will also unlock it on the spot. The contracts we have here in Finland between the State Department and various service venders stipulate that there be an out clause. Either way, I do not think the Finns, who are used to paying full price anyway, will go for locked phones. Many here have said already that if the phones are locked, they will stay on the shelves.

[samab]

Sweet catch. I was told by my friend from Sonera that if you buy out your contract, they will also unlock it on the spot. The contracts we have here in Finland between the State Department and various service venders stipulate that there be an out clause. Either way, I do not think the Finns, who are used to paying full price anyway, will go for locked phones. Many here have said already that if the phones are locked, they will stay on the shelves.

If the Finns are going to buy full price unlocked iphones --- they ain't going to be priced at 250/300 euro as you suggested.

Numerous websites have said that the Italian carriers are not simlocking their PAYG iphones. I don't know if that's the truth or not because I don't speak Italian so I can't check the original news source.

So if the Finns are buying the iphone completely unlocked --- then expect to pay the Italian price.

[sapporobaby]

If the Finns are going to buy full price unlocked iphones --- they ain't going to be priced at 250/300 euro as you suggested.

Numerous websites have said that the Italian carriers are not simlocking their PAYG iphones. I don't know if that's the truth or not because I don't speak Italian so I can't check the original news source.

So if the Finns are buying the iphone completely unlocked --- then expect to pay the Italian price.

I bought an N82 at the "Finnish" price so what is the difference with an iPhone? If I want it, I buy it. Very simple.

[samab]

I bought an N82 at the "Finnish" price so what is the difference with an iPhone? If I want it, I buy it. Very simple.

Yes, it is that simple. I don't have a problem with that --- you are an adult and you can buy whatever you want.

What I have problems with is that your price projection in Finland --- is based on the UK PAYG iphone price, but the PAYG iphone in UK is simlocked.

You can't have it both ways. Either accept the UK price as the base in Finland and expect a simlocked iphone in Finland. Or accept the Italian price as the base in Finland and expect a unlocked iphone in Finland.

[sapporobaby]

Yes, it is that simple. I don't have a problem with that --- you are an adult and you can buy whatever you want.

What I have problems with is that your price projection in Finland --- is based on the UK PAYG iphone price, but the PAYG iphone in UK is simlocked.

You can't have it both ways. Either accept the UK price as the base in Finland and expect a simlocked iphone in Finland. Or accept the Italian price as the base in Finland and expect a unlocked iphone in Finland.

Uhhhh. I really do not want to go down this road so this will be my last post in regards to this. Let's look at the facts. I said a "friend" told me this. I did not say I made the prices. I passed on a piece of info that seems to have given you pause, and for all intent purposes, has you annoyed, confused, perplexed, unhappy, etc... I am not really sure of your emotions, but from what you say, you have a problem with those price projections. What do you propose to do about this? You can call: +358 20401 and let them know how you feel. I am not really sure what I can do for you. For me it is simple as this. Either way my phone comes, I have friends that will unlock it at Sonera. So... I will get an iPhone for as cheap as possible without a simlock. You make the mistake of telling me I can not have it both ways, but it looks like I will. Your argument is rather moot in that you are forcing me to accept your way of thinking, but you don't seem to get this. I don't have to accept anything unless I choose to.

Dude, I am not trying to sound hard, but you need to take a look at what you wrote about me having to accept this and that. Take a Mulligan and do it over if you like.

[samab]

Uhhhh. I really do not want to go down this road so this will be my last post in regards to this. Let's look at the facts. I said a "friend" told me this. I did not say I made the prices. I passed on a piece of info that seems to have given you pause, and for all intent purposes, has you annoyed, confused, perplexed, unhappy, etc... I am not really sure of your emotions, but from what you say, you have a problem with those price projections. What do you propose to do about this? You can call: +358 20401 and let them know how you feel. I am not really sure what I can do for you. For me it is simple as this. Either way my phone comes, I have friends that will unlock it at Sonera. So... I will get an iPhone for as cheap as possible without a simlock. You make the mistake of telling me I can not have it both ways, but it looks like I will. Your argument is rather moot in that you are forcing me to accept your way of thinking, but you don't seem to get this. I don't have to accept anything unless I choose to.

Dude, I am not trying to sound hard, but you need to take a look at what you wrote about me having to accept this and that. Take a Mulligan and do it over if you like.

If I accept your argument --- then the only way you can do it is because you have a friend who is working for a Finnish carrier who is willing to break a few internal coporate rules to unlock the phone for you.

Why don't you ask your friend how much money to get out of iphone contract? If they don't have ETF then you have to pay the rest of the contract.

Your argument is rather moot that it only works if you have a friend who is an insider who can slip you the unlocking code.

[sapporobaby]

If I accept your argument --- then the only way you can do it is because you have a friend who is working for a Finnish carrier who is willing to break a few internal coporate rules to unlock the phone for you.

Why don't you ask your friend how much money to get out of iphone contract? If they don't have ETF then you have to pay the rest of the contract.

Your argument is rather moot that it only works if you have a friend who is an insider who can slip you the unlocking code.

1. Go back to post #17 and point out where I said I am making the pricing policy. You are arguing with a ghost. I said, and will say again, and hopefully you will understand it this time. My friend told me this. He could be wrong. The pricing could be lower, higher, free give aways. Who knows for sure. It was what he told me, and either way I could not care less.

2. You seem to think that I care if you accept an argument that I never put forth. This argument only exists in your mind. I never said the words in the way you are trying to attribute to me. If he is willing to unlock a phone for me this is my biz and his problem, but you seem a bit jealous by me having this option.

3. I don't have to ask my friend how money to get out of the iPhone contract. I DON'T CARE. I just don't. I already know that I will not have to pay full price for the contract. I hope this is clear by now.

4. Once again, you ascribe and argument to me that I never started. You seem to not understand that I never said any of this is based on fact but on what a friend told me. It is yours to believe or not believe. Once again, I don't care.

By the way, I know I said I would not go down this road to no where but I did. I hope that we are clearer than clear on this. If you have a problem with the pricing models that could or could not be true, please, please, please call Sonera and tell them how you feel. I am sure they will be interested in what you have to say. Make sure you mention that you have it on good authority that someone will have their iPhone unlocked (if it is locked) without paying the full price, or contract subscription, or whatever. Let em know what's on your mind.

[samab]

I think you are the one arguing with a ghost. Start from my comment #12.

I said $600 iphone from O2 is simlocked. I said Finland doesn't have anti-simlocking laws on 3G phones. I said that Italian carriers (according to unconfirmed news reports) that they are selling unlocked PAYG iphones for a price that is higher that the $600 simlocked PAYG O2 iphone.

All my comments are factually correct. Why are you arguing with them?

[sapporobaby]

I think you are the one arguing with a ghost. Start from my comment #12.

I said $600 iphone from O2 is simlocked. I said Finland doesn't have anti-simlocking laws on 3G phones. I said that Italian carriers (according to unconfirmed news reports) that they are selling unlocked PAYG iphones for a price that is higher that the $600 simlocked PAYG O2 iphone.

All my comments are factually correct. Why are you arguing with them?

Someone corrected and explained things to you in post #27. I simply complemented on his post. You then jumped on my post complementing him. You then started to tell me that I have to accept your premise about unconfirmed new reports. Then you seemed to get annoyed because I guess you will have to abide by a contract and I will not have to. So be it. All of the pricing are speculative because why, wait for it, because I put forth the caveat that my friend said so. This would make him about as credible as your unconfirmed new sources. The only fact that I have is that I will not have to worry about if my iPhone is locked or unlocked. It was you that had a problem with the quoted, unconfirmed Finnish prices, not me. I gave you a phone number to call to express your displeasure about this. I do notice how you tend to move the goal posts when confronted with your own words, but that's okay. I am truly done with this.

The gentleman in Finland yields the remainder of his minutes to the floor. Go nuts.

[samab]

Someone corrected and explained things to you in post #27. I simply complemented on his post. You then jumped on my post complementing him. You then started to tell me that I have to accept your premise about unconfirmed new reports. Then you seemed to get annoyed because I guess you will have to abide by a contract and I will not have to. So be it. All of the pricing are speculative because why, wait for it, because I put forth the caveat that my friend said so. This would make him about as credible as your unconfirmed new sources. The only fact that I have is that I will not have to worry about if my iPhone is locked or unlocked. It was you that had a problem with the quoted, unconfirmed Finnish prices, not me. I gave you a phone number to call to express your displeasure about this. I do notice how you tend to move the goal posts when confronted with your own words, but that's okay. I am truly done with this.

The gentleman in Finland yields the remainder of his minutes to the floor. Go nuts.

He didn't correct me at all. What I said was correct and he was just expanding on what I said (and giving actual source).

And you know what? Those laws aren't that useful at all. Aside from the iphone, AT&T Wireless and T-Mobile USA provide unlocking codes after 90 days for free --- without any legislation. Same old 2 year contract whether in Finland or US. Finnish laws give you a "get out of jail" card if you are sick or unemployed --- but's that's about it with the Finlish laws.

You said something about the State Department --- so I am going to assume you work for them and have a diplomatic passport. Why don't you say that I must be annoyed at you because you have diplomatic immunity and can ignore any laws in Finland?

[sapporobaby]

He didn't correct me at all. What I said was correct and he was just expanding on what I said (and giving actual source).

And you know what? Those laws aren't that useful at all. Aside from the iphone, AT&T Wireless and T-Mobile USA provide unlocking codes after 90 days for free --- without any legislation. Same old 2 year contract whether in Finland or US. Finnish laws give you a "get out of jail" card if you are sick or unemployed --- but's that's about it with the Finlish laws.

You said something about the State Department --- so I am going to assume you work for them and have a diplomatic passport. Why don't you say that I must be annoyed at you because you have diplomatic immunity and can ignore any laws in Finland?

You are wrong my friend. Black passport, red passport, or even the blue ones have to obey the law. I pay parking tickets just like the Finns. :)

[samab]

You are wrong my friend. Black passport, red passport, or even the blue ones have to obey the law. I pay parking tickets just like the Finns. :)

Of course, you should obey the law --- even if you have a diplomatic passport.

But all I hear from you is I don't care about this and I don't care about that. I don't care about the regular people paying full price for the iphone. I don't care about the regular people paying the rest of the contract in order to get out of contract. I don't care about the regular people paying for the unlocking codes.....

[sapporobaby]

Of course, you should obey the law --- even if you have a diplomatic passport.

But all I hear from you is I don't care about this and I don't care about that. I don't care about the regular people paying full price for the iphone. I don't care about the regular people paying the rest of the contract in order to get out of contract. I don't care about the regular people paying for the unlocking codes.....

Well, in terms of a phone. I really don't care. It is a simple matter of: "If you do not like the price, don't buy the phone". We are not talking about world hunger, or terrorism or the price of gasoline. We are talking about a luxury item, so no, I do not care who gets one and who doesn't. Give me something that will change my life and someone else and chances are I will care, but about a phone. No. Sorry, it does not register on my "I give a crap-o-meter". If someone else was in the same position, I do not think they would care either. If you had the chance to choose between getting an unlocked iPhone for a cheap price or having to subscribe and getting the cheaper price, you would take the cheap iPhone. I am sorry but I have a hard time with your righteous indignation. Sooooo before you start to point a finger, maybe you should look at how many are coming back in your direction. There is no one here that will say: "No, no. I want to pay full price for a fully unlocked iPhone unless you will unlock them all for the publicum". Your argument rings rather hollow, and is rotted in jealousy.

Anyway, you can have a look at this as well and attribute this to me if you want.

http://www.sonera.fi/Puhelin%20ja%20liittym%E4/Hinnat

[Leebo]

Does anyone have any insight as to whether the iPhone 1st Gen will be able to 'go legit.'?
What I mean is that I have a jailbroken phone, but still on O2 using Pay As You Go, and because of that am very wary of any software updates (whether its worth the hassle up unlocking/jailbreaking again) and Id love to be free of this and although Id miss some of the apps Id much prefer to be able to not be concerned everytime apple upgrades the software.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

[sapporobaby]

Does anyone have any insight as to whether the iPhone 1st Gen will be able to 'go legit.'?
What I mean is that I have a jailbroken phone, but still on O2 using Pay As You Go, and because of that am very wary of any software updates (whether its worth the hassle up unlocking/jailbreaking again) and Id love to be free of this and although Id miss some of the apps Id much prefer to be able to not be concerned everytime apple upgrades the software.

Anyone have any thoughts on that?

Hey dude. I am/was in the same boat as you. You might want to check Zibri's site or iClarified about what is happening. It has been reoported that the new hacking will be much harder this time. I got my 1 gen phone while in the US, and when I called AT&T about what happens, they said that even after 2 years the phone will stay locked, so it appears that the only solution might be to wait until Zibri or the DevTeam figures out a way to unlock it. I would not under any circumstances upgrade until you get the all clear.

[Leebo]

Hey dude. I am/was in the same boat as you. You might want to check Zibri's site or iClarified about what is happening. It has been reoported that the new hacking will be much harder this time. I got my 1 gen phone while in the US, and when I called AT&T about what happens, they said that even after 2 years the phone will stay locked, so it appears that the only solution might be to wait until Zibri or the DevTeam figures out a way to unlock it. I would not under any circumstances upgrade until you get the all clear.

Really? Yeh Id heard things about the 3G iPhone being much more watertight (of course weve heard this before but this time its does ring true).

Thanks. Ill have a look at those sites you mentioned (I usually stick to TUAW and here for news).

So , by all accounts the best thing to do is to stick with my iPhone 1st Gen for now BUT will these new data plans be available to the 1st Generation?

Will I be able to sign up to the £10 data plan and the text/call prices too?

Although at the moment I pay £10 a month get 300 free texts (within 30 days) , 1MB data and then my call charges come off the £10 credit so all in all thats a great deal apart from the data.

[samab]

Your argument rings rather hollow, and is rotted in jealousy.

Anyway, you can have a look at this as well and attribute this to me if you want.

http://www.sonera.fi/Puhelin%20ja%20liittym%E4/Hinnat

So, the contractless iphone in Finland is a lot more expensive than what you said your friend told you.

I am not jealous in any way --- I am just correct with my argument about the iphone pricing in Finland. For you, you were just spreading baseless rumors from a friend that knew absolutely nothing.

[nvidia2008]

This is sweet if it is true, £299 for 8GB is a bit steep only when compared to the contract iPhone. Free unlimited 3G *and WiFi* for 6 months is pretty impressive compared to a lot of other countries. w00t

[sapporobaby]

So, the contractless iphone in Finland is a lot more expensive than what you said your friend told you.

I am not jealous in any way --- I am just correct with my argument about the iphone pricing in Finland. For you, you were just spreading baseless rumors from a friend that knew absolutely nothing.

Like your unnamed sources. How factual are these? Anyway, continue to obfuscate. I do like the way you cherry pick your way though an argument. And once again, and I will go slowly. I never said my friends info was factual. You just deemed it so. As I will finally point out. I could not care less. I will get my unlocked iPhone and that is that. Enjoy your contracted iPhone and do your best not to bother me again regarding THIS particular issue. Ok?

[sapporobaby]

Really? Yeh Id heard things about the 3G iPhone being much more watertight (of course weve heard this before but this time its does ring true).

Thanks. Ill have a look at those sites you mentioned (I usually stick to TUAW and here for news).

So , by all accounts the best thing to do is to stick with my iPhone 1st Gen for now BUT will these new data plans be available to the 1st Generation?

Will I be able to sign up to the £10 data plan and the text/call prices too?

Although at the moment I pay £10 a month get 300 free texts (within 30 days) , 1MB data and then my call charges come off the £10 credit so all in all thats a great deal apart from the data.

Not really sure what to tell here. You might want to contact a local operator and see what they have to say. Wish I could help you more. If you go to Zibri's site, you can drop him a line and he might be able to fill you in a bit more than me.

[samab]

Like your unnamed sources. How factual are these? Anyway, continue to obfuscate. I do like the way you cherry pick your way though an argument. And once again, and I will go slowly. I never said my friends info was factual. You just deemed it so. As I will finally point out. I could not care less. I will get my unlocked iPhone and that is that. Enjoy your contracted iPhone and do your best not to bother me again regarding THIS particular issue. Ok?

How did I cherry pick through an argument?

I said $600 iphone from O2 is simlocked. I said Finland doesn't have anti-simlocking laws on 3G phones. I said that Italian carriers (according to unconfirmed news reports) that they are selling unlocked PAYG iphones for a price that is higher that the $600 simlocked PAYG O2 iphone.

That's all my points. No cherry picking.

[sapporobaby]

How did I cherry pick through an argument?

I said $600 iphone from O2 is simlocked. I said Finland doesn't have anti-simlocking laws on 3G phones. I said that Italian carriers (according to unconfirmed news reports) that they are selling unlocked PAYG iphones for a price that is higher that the $600 simlocked PAYG O2 iphone.

That's all my points. No cherry picking.

Did you mean to edit your post? I have to edited part but to save time I will just point out that you really seem to love to jump to conclusions or assume, or speculate. You assume that I will use a Sonera card in my UNLOCKED iPhone. Maybe I will use my DNA card which comes with unlimited data, all for 9.90 €/month. What now?

[samab]

Did you mean to edit your post? I have to edited part but to save time I will just point out that you really seem to love to jump to conclusions or assume, or speculate. You assume that I will use a Sonera card in my UNLOCKED iPhone. Maybe I will use my DNA card which comes with unlimited data, all for 9.90 €/month. What now?

You seem to assume that (1) the Sonera 3G iphone is unlocked in the first place [which they don't have to because it's a 3G phone which is allowed to be simlocked] or (2) there are going to be 3rd party simlocking solutions readily available after the launch.

[lfmorrison]

You seem to assume that (1) the Sonera 3G iphone is unlocked in the first place [which they don't have to because it's a 3G phone which is allowed to be simlocked]

Curious. The law can easily be interpreted to mean that simlocking is permitted only during the term of a tie-in contract. If a PayGo phone is available for purchase, then it might be interpreted that the simlock on such a phone (if any) would have to be removed free of charge as soon as the customer chose not to purchase the next month's minutes (thus terminating the PayGo service agreement).

[sapporobaby]

You seem to assume that (1) the Sonera 3G iphone is unlocked in the first place [which they don't have to because it's a 3G phone which is allowed to be simlocked] or (2) there are going to be 3rd party simlocking solutions readily available after the launch.

To your 1st point. Where did I say, and be factual, that iPhones are unlocked. Quote a source where I said this, not my friend, not the girl down the street, not the man on the moon, but me. Where I said: iPhones come unlocked. To your 2nd point, once again, post a quote where I said specifically there will be 3rd party sim locking solutions ( I think you meant sim unlocking solutions but who really knows what you mean. You twist and turn and change so much it is hard to keep up with your "arguments") readily available after the launch. This should be easy for you to prove. You made this statement so back it up, and please, please, please stop twisting words and trying to use them to suit your uninspiring debate points.

By the way, in post 12 you stated that Europeans are also into the locked iPhone situation as in the US, but last time I looked, France was a part of Europe. You might want to rethink this one.. Oh, and another assumption on your part, you assumed that because I have a dip passport I can simply disobey laws.

[samab]

To your 1st point. Where did I say, and be factual, that iPhones are unlocked. Quote a source where I said this, not my friend, not the girl down the street, not the man on the moon, but me. Where I said: iPhones come unlocked. To your 2nd point, once again, post a quote where I said specifically there will be 3rd party sim locking solutions ( I think you meant sim unlocking solutions but who really knows what you mean. You twist and turn and change so much it is hard to keep up with your "arguments") readily available after the launch. This should be easy for you to prove. You made this statement so back it up, and please, please, please stop twisting words and trying to use them to suit your uninspiring debate points.

By the way, in post 12 you stated that Europeans are also into the locked iPhone situation as in the US, but last time I looked, France was a part of Europe. You might want to rethink this one.. Oh, and another assumption on your part, you assumed that because I have a dip passport I can simply disobey laws.

Not really helping the general public with the French consumer protection law --- when it only benefits rich people who can spend 750 euro for a unlocked iphone. It's like the US government providing public flood/hurricane insurance --- and it's always the rich people getting the benefit by building beach houses in the middle of the annual hurricane path that get destroyed every few years.

You didn't say the iphone comes unlocked --- but you said YOUR UNLOCKED iphone. Where is your iphone going to come from? You repeatedly said Sonera.

I did mean 3rd party unlocking solutions.

[sapporobaby]

Not really helping the general public with the French consumer protection law --- when it only benefits rich people who can spend 750 euro for a unlocked iphone. It's like the US government providing public flood/hurricane insurance --- and it's always the rich people getting the benefit by building beach houses in the middle of the annual hurricane path that get destroyed every few years.

You didn't say the iphone comes unlocked --- but you said YOUR UNLOCKED iphone. Where is your iphone going to come from? You repeatedly said Sonera.

I did mean 3rd party unlocking solutions.


Now you are arguing from a bad position, and incorrect at that. I did say Sonera but I also said the reason mine would be unlocked. I pointed this out distinctly. If you can not see the difference it is because you do not want to and enjoy using nebulous distinctions, as to leave yourself an out in an argument or you have comprehension issues.

You then fail to admit you were wrong about the European phone issue and start talking about the French, the US, everything except saying: "oh, yes. I was wrong there" and then moving on. It makes your arguments weak and you loose more and more credibility with each post.

I am still waiting for you to post where I*said there will be 3rd party unlocking solutions. A direct quote. You can't provide one but will not simply with draw the statement. You make yourself look weak here and as if you do not know what you are talking about.

You failed to back up your assumption statement with a direct quote. You failed to back up the diplomatic passport statement with a quote. You continue to try and move the goal posts in each successive post and your arguments become more and more spurious.

[samab]

Now you are arguing from a bad position, and incorrect at that. I did say Sonera but I also said the reason mine would be unlocked. I pointed this out distinctly. If you can not see the difference it is because you do not want to and enjoy using nebulous distinctions, as to leave yourself an out in an argument or you have comprehension issues.

You then fail to admit you were wrong about the European phone issue and start talking about the French, the US, everything except saying: "oh, yes. I was wrong there" and then moving on. It makes your arguments weak and you loose more and more credibility with each post.

I am still waiting for you to post where I*said there will be 3rd party unlocking solutions. A direct quote. You can't provide one but will not simply with draw the statement. You make yourself look weak here and as if you do not know what you are talking about.

You failed to back up your assumption statement with a direct quote. You failed to back up the diplomatic passport statement with a quote. You continue to try and move the goal posts in each successive post and your arguments become more and more spurious.

Your friend said a lot of things --- all of them seemed to be wrong. So why should you trust your friend again to provide you with the unlocking code? I didn't say that you said there is going to be a third party unlocking solution --- but your position seem to be that you are expecting your friend to come through (when your friend has been repeatedly giving you incorrect information).

[sapporobaby]

Your friend said a lot of things --- all of them seemed to be wrong. So why should you trust your friend again to provide you with the unlocking code? I didn't say that you said there is going to be a third party unlocking solution --- but your position seem to be that you are expecting your friend to come through (when your friend has been repeatedly giving you incorrect information).

Here you go again on another assumption. Did I say which friend would give me an unlocking code? This might be new for you but sometimes people have more than one friend. In defense of the friend that told me about the iPhone prices, he was guessing based on info that he had heard previously. Half of the people at Sonera had not heard about the pricing schemes until they read about them online. Customer service was in the dark as much as everyone else.

Second, you still failed again, as normal to address my statements in regards to things you said. You said, I assumed that there would be 3rd party unlocking solutions. Where did I say this. You continually move around an argument rather than answering.

Also you continue to worry about something that is not yours to worry about. You worry about the fact that I do not care if people can and can not unlock their phones but we both know you would at the front of the line not caring either if you could get an unlocked iPhone (this is purely my guess or speculation). You also worry about what my friend tells me when actually it is none of your business as it does not affect you. The only thing you should worry about are the things you say, that you fail to prove. If you do not know something, make your statements in the form of an opinion. I now know, I will trust or believe very little of what you post or say, offer, etc... because you have shown repeatedly that you are credible in your postings.

[samab]

Yes, from now on --- I will just take it that you are a big shot US diplomat stations in Sweden and you have friends like the CIA station chief in your embassy, who together with his friends at the NSA can crack the unlocking codes for the iphone.

[sapporobaby]

Yes, from now on --- I will just take it that you are a big shot US diplomat stations in Sweden and you have friends like the CIA station chief in your embassy, who together with his friends at the NSA can crack the unlocking codes for the iphone.

Sweden? Who said anything about Sweden? I am in Finland. You know. To the right of Sweden, left of Russia. Nordic, not Scandinavian country. Get a map, or Google Earth. This is too funny.

Please post more. Each post from you gets worse and worse. You basically can not back up your statements so you are not making up stuff.

More, more, more. Post more. I need to laugh a bit more before I go to bed.

[samab]

Just your average typing too fast, I do know the difference between the 2 countries.

I am not making anything up --- I just acknowledge that you are rich and powerful and that you have avenues to get your iphone unlocked beyond the average little people.

As a US diplomat abroad --- you should talk about how Finland should liberalize their telecom sector. A lot of their policy has Nokia in mind. Finland tried to end-run Qualcomm (nokia's public enemy number 1) --- by adopting Flarion in a new spectrum space back in 2005 (just before Qualcomm bought out Flarion). Finland should open the GSM handset market as well (to simlocking) so that other handset manufacturers can get a foothold into Nokia's backyard. You should talk about how the US has no simlocking laws --- yet both national GSM carriers in the US provide unlocking codes for free after 90 days. You should talk about how even the EC commissioners are thinking seriously about US style in mobile termination rate.

[sapporobaby]

Just your average typing too fast, I do know the difference between the 2 countries.

I am not making anything up --- I just acknowledge that you are rich and powerful and that you have avenues to get your iphone unlocked beyond the average little people.

As a US diplomat abroad --- you should talk about how Finland should liberalize their telecom sector. A lot of their policy has Nokia in mind. Finland tried to end-run Qualcomm (nokia's public enemy number 1) --- by adopting Flarion in a new spectrum space back in 2005 (just before Qualcomm bought out Flarion). Finland should open the GSM handset market as well (to simlocking) so that other handset manufacturers can get a foothold into Nokia's backyard. You should talk about how the US has no simlocking laws --- yet both national GSM carriers in the US provide unlocking codes for free after 90 days. You should talk about how even the EC commissioners are thinking seriously about US style in mobile termination rate.

Samab,

Stop, stop, stop.

1. I am not rich nor powerful. Rich. I work for the US govt. This should be a hint. We are almost broke. Second, having friends cultivated through years of sauna's, dinners, geocaching, etc... works out to be much more fun than being powerful. For me anyway. I have friends that happen to work for Sonera. Period. Sometimes it is not what you know but whom you know. There are many kinds of diplomats. Not all are in the commerce section. You have political officers, economic officers, IT officers, etc....

2. My statement to you were in your assumptions about me. You made a statement, I asked you to back up what you said. You can't which is still okay. You will not even admit that, which is still okay. Any can see where the truth is here so we can move on. I now have an insight into how you operate and I will adjust fire accordingly. So as far as I am concerned, this is over.

[samab]

You also make assumptions about me --- I made 2 quick typing mistakes (simlocking instead of unlocked and Sweden instead of Finland) and you jumped all over me.

You shouldn't be arguing with me about France's simlocking laws. You should be standing beside me arguing that France's simlocking laws don't really work if it only results in a 750 euro unlocked iphone. You should be standing beside me arguing that the high iphone price (both handset and plans) is the result in French's telecom policy in allowing only 3 national carriers (and all 3 are French owned). Liberalize the French telecom industry by allowing a fourth carrier that may or may not be foreign owned would be the way to go.

Sweden's telecom regulator (PTS) handed out 3G licenses by "beauty contest" --- blew up in their face. The past 2 years --- PTS did a 180 and has been auctioning spectrum space ever since.

[sapporobaby]

You also make assumptions about me --- I made 2 quick typing mistakes (simlocking instead of unlocked and Sweden instead of Finland) and you jumped all over me.

You shouldn't be arguing with me about France's simlocking laws. You should be standing beside me arguing that France's simlocking laws don't really work if it only results in a 750 euro unlocked iphone. You should be standing beside me arguing that the high iphone price (both handset and plans) is the result in French's telecom policy in allowing only 3 national carriers (and all 3 are French owned). Liberalize the French telecom industry by allowing a fourth carrier that may or may not be foreign owned would be the way to go.

Sweden's telecom regulator (PTS) handed out 3G licenses by "beauty contest" --- blew up in their face. The past 2 years --- PTS did a 180 and has been auctioning spectrum space ever since.

Samab my friend, and I hope you do not mind me calling you this. Let's start over. If I jumped on you hard, please accept my apologies.

Now, I agree with you about the telecom laws. They are not in the best interest of anyone. In my honest opinion, I think it would be interesting to see what kind of one day or one week shut down we, the comsumers, could manufacture that would let the telcos, Apple, MS, et al that they are only in biz because of us. They are not doing us a favor by taking out money.

[rcfa]

The article title reads: "O2 Pay & Go iPhones start at 299 euro, make data optional" and then the piece continues: "Apple's exclusive iPhone carrier in the UK announced Wednesday that its Pay & Go customers can purchase a new iPhone 3G without a monthly contract for just 299 euro, but that data use isn't guaranteed with the plans."

Meanwhile, later on, the pricing structure is quoted as: "'The new 3G 8GB iPhone for Pay & Go will be available for £299.99 and 16GB for £359.99,' O2 said in a statement on its tariffs website, with normal calls costing 5p per minute."

So let's get this straight:

£299.99 = €378.99 = $598.33
£359.99 = €454.79 = $717.99

Hardly a need to sell a phone SIM locked, if it's not subsidized, they make the money on the mark-up, sales commission, or increase in customers and volume of sales. Further, SIM locking will likely not last long.

So is it worth it? Depends if you rather deal with one-time expenses and lower monthly payments or not.

Subsidies plus sales margin are $717.99-$299.99=$418, respectively $598.22-$199=$399.33
So in the $400 range. Rumors are that AT&T pays Apple $325/phone, which means O2 earns about $75-$95/phone in sales.

It also means, if you get one of these, it takes you 3.5 years (more counting the interest) of using the phone until you recoup the savings of sticking with your old iPhone plan. Given that AT&T won't have to pay any subsidies, and given that you'd be likely be eligible for a new subsidized model before three years are over, it's also somewhat likely that AT&T would not much object to people buying such phones and using their existing iPhone calling plan. Interest counted, it takes just about three years until AT&T recovers the reported subsidy payments by means of higher monthly plan charges, and by then you could get a new, similarly subsidized phone, and the clock would start ticking from scratch.

So it's a matter if you want to decide to rather spend spare cash in a lump sum, and end up with a smaller more managable monthly budget in a less predictable future, or if you simply do math and figure you'll have predictable income, and thus simply go with what's likely overall the cheaper approach (getting a subsidized phone from AT&T).

Personally, I rather have smaller monthly payments and decide based on disposable funds if/when I spend a large amount of money for a luxury item, rather than be stuck in what's in essence a cloaked financed payment plan that obliges me to montly payments in a potentially uncertain future. To be debt free and to be able to end the contract at any time past the next year is adding to piece of mind in financially potentially turbulent times.

[Jensonb]

The article title reads: "O2 Pay & Go iPhones start at 299 euro, make data optional" and then the piece continues: "Apple's exclusive iPhone carrier in the UK announced Wednesday that its Pay & Go customers can purchase a new iPhone 3G without a monthly contract for just 299 euro, but that data use isn't guaranteed with the plans."

Meanwhile, later on, the pricing structure is quoted as: "'The new 3G 8GB iPhone for Pay & Go will be available for £299.99 and 16GB for £359.99,' O2 said in a statement on its tariffs website, with normal calls costing 5p per minute."


Well spotted...I didn't notice the use of Euros in the headlines earlier. Must be a mistake because prices are never quoted in Euros in the UK because it's not our currency (Unfortunately). In special cases, you can pay in Euros but you can't quote prices in Euros except as a secondary, converted price (Main one has to be in Pounds Sterling)