Apple's iPhone 3G battery good for about 3.5 hours of browsing [Archive]

AppleInsider

07-16-2008, 10:20 AM

Existing iPhone owners moving to Apple's new iPhone 3G should expect an approximate 50 percent reduction in battery life when using the new handset in 3G mode to browse the web and perform other Internet-related functions, a series of tests show.

Over the past five days, several publications have weighed in with early reviews of the new phone that include battery benchmarks covering 3G talk time and 3G Internet use. For the most part, talk time results have met or exceeded Apple's promise of "up to 5 hours on 3G."

An average of five 3G talk time tests (PC World, WSJ, PC Mag, CNet, and WirelessInfo) have the new iPhone's battery lasting just shy of 5 hours and 20 minutes when used solely to perform voice calls -- 20 minutes more Apple's own tests, and good enough to place the handset among the best in its class.

On the other hand, iPhone 3G suffers the same battery limitations as other smartphones when acting as an Internet device on 3G networks, and has routinely fallen short of Apple's claim of "up to 5 hours" of Internet use on 3G.

With the exception of the Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg, who somehow managed to keep his battery juiced for nearly 6 hours while browsing and performing other Internet functions, other reviewers saw their iPhone 3G's battery fall anywhere between one and two hours short of Apple's optimal 5-hour claim.

An average of four 3G Internet tests taken from the chart compiled by Gizmodo (below), which includes Mossberg's stellar results and the mid-point of Ars's mixed-use test, suggests the battery in the new iPhone will conk out after 3 hours and 55 minutes of continuous use. However, individual tests performed by DVICE and Anandtech have the battery fizzling out at 2 hours and 54 minutes, and 3 hours and 17 minutes, respectively.

While Anandtech's chart shows the Apple handset to last about 30 minutes more than Samsung's 3G Blackjack, the unsettling comparison exists between the iPhone 3G running on AT&T's 3G network and the original iPhone running on AT&T's EDGE network. In the site's tests, the original iPhone lasted 2 hours and 26 minutes longer while browsing over EDGE than the new iPhone did browsing over 3G.

In its analysis of the matter, Anandtech noted that Apple has been unable to achieve a substantial edge over other smartphones for 3G Internet use because it "doesn't design any of the chips or battery technology that goes into the iPhone, [and therefore] doesn't really have much control over things like 3G battery life."

That observation, however, lends hidden promise for future generations of the touch-screen handset. Apple recently purchased boutique microprocessor design firm PA Semi for $278 million and plans to use the assets acquired in that deal to help it design a new generation of proprietary chips to power future iPhones and iPods. [ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=4366)

merdhead

07-16-2008, 10:35 AM

TenoBell

07-16-2008, 10:37 AM

Being in NYC. I'm around abundant WiFi hotspots and have mostly had 3G turned off. I have noticed that the WiFi signal is stronger and faster than it was on the original iPhone.

freethinker

07-16-2008, 10:43 AM

nickmini

07-16-2008, 10:44 AM

Existing iPhone owners moving to Apple's new iPhone 3G should expect an approximate 50 percent reduction in battery life when using the new handset in 3G mode to browse the web and perform other Internet-related functions, a series of tests show.

Over the past five days, several publications have weighed in with early reviews of the new phone that include battery benchmarks covering 3G talk time and 3G Internet use. For the most part, talk time results have met or exceeded Apple's promise of "up to 5 hours on 3G."

An average of five 3G talk time tests (PC World, WSJ, PC Mag, CNet, and WirelessInfo) have the new iPhone's battery lasting just shy of 5 hours and 20 minutes when used solely to perform voice calls -- 20 minutes more Apple's own tests, and good enough to place the handset among the best in its class.

On the other hand, iPhone 3G suffers the same battery limitations as other smartphones when acting as an Internet device on 3G networks, and has routinely fallen short of Apple's claim of "up to 5 hours" of Internet use on 3G.

With the exception of the Wall Street Journal's Walt Mossberg, who somehow managed to keep his battery juiced for nearly 6 hours while browsing and performing other Internet functions, other reviewers saw their iPhone 3G's battery fall anywhere between one and two hours short of Apple's optimal 5-hour claim.

An average of four 3G Internet tests taken from the chart compiled by Gizmodo (below), which includes Mossberg's stellar results and the mid-point of Ars's mixed-use test, suggests the battery in the new iPhone will conk out after 3 hours and 55 minutes of continuous use. However, individual tests performed by DVICE and Anandtech have the battery fizzling out at 2 hours and 54 minutes, and 3 hours and 17 minutes, respectfully.

While Anandtech's chart shows the Apple handset to last about 30 minutes more than Samsung's 3G Blackjack, the unsettling comparison exists between the iPhone 3G running on AT&T's 3G network and the original iPhone running on AT&T's EDGE network. In the site's tests, the original iPhone lasted 2 hours and 26 minutes longer while browsing over EDGE than the new iPhone did browsing over 3G.

In its analysis of the matter, Anandtech noted that Apple has been unable to achieve a substantial edge over other smartphones for 3G Internet use because it "doesn't design any of the chips or battery technology that goes into the iPhone, [and therefore] doesn't really have much control over things like 3G battery life."

That observation, however, lends hidden promise for future generations of the touch-screen handset. Apple recently purchased boutique microprocessor design firm PA Semi for $278 million and plans to use the assets acquired in that deal to help it design a new generation of proprietary chips to power future iPhones and iPods. [ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=4366)
Even if the battery life is halved, with surfing speeds almost doubled isn't it kind of a wash in terms of what you actually get to browse? I think I'd prefer less waiting for pages to load and getting through quicker!

ros3ntan

07-16-2008, 10:44 AM

While Anandtech's chart shows the Apple handset to last about 30 minutes more than Samsung's 3G Blackjack, the unsettling comparison exists between the iPhone 3G running on AT&T's 3G network and the original iPhone running on AT&T's EDGE network. In the site's tests, the original iPhone lasted 2 hours and 26 minutes longer while browsing over EDGE than the new iPhone did browsing over 3G. [ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=4366)

Why is this unsettling again? we all know that 3g uses more battery life than edge.. so it should be expected that the phone will not last as long as the original.

The unsettling fact is apple has yet to deliver on its promises of 5 hours browsing time.

btw, why are they comparing 3g and edge on battery life???

ros3ntan

07-16-2008, 10:47 AM

So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?

Your opinions please!!!

faster browsing, i choose 3g any day. Cause you can always charge your battery in your car. or at a wall plug. besides, you can always turn the 3g off if you want to save battery. So to be honest, nothing to lose. If you turn it off, you will get edge, which is the same thing as before.

anantksundaram

07-16-2008, 10:48 AM

ros3ntan

07-16-2008, 10:48 AM

Being in NYC. I'm around abundant WiFi hotspots and have mostly had 3G turned off. I have noticed that the WiFi signal is stronger and faster than it was on the original iPhone.

yeah, its the plastic instead of aluminum. Although i still prefer the aluminum over the plastic in so many ways.

ros3ntan

07-16-2008, 10:49 AM

That is disappointing.

Given that EGDE is **not bad at all** for most uses when there are four or more bars, V1 is beginning to look better and better.

Perhaps I will hold off for a bit before buying V2.

You can always turn off the 3g network and get the same battery life. Nothing to lose really if you really want to get the new one. the 3g signal is not as good. but if you turn off the 3g, it will revert back to edge and edge signal strength.

anantksundaram

07-16-2008, 10:52 AM

Even if the battery life is halved, with surfing speeds almost doubled isn't it kind of a wash in terms of what you actually get to browse? I think I'd prefer less waiting for pages to load and getting through quicker!

It depends on one's reading speed (which is constant regardless of download time), so total time might not be 'halved.'

Also, in the case of the other uses -- weather, stocks, email -- the question is whether EDGE significantly outperforms 3G.

anantksundaram

07-16-2008, 10:53 AM

You can always turn off the 3g network and get the same battery life. Nothing to lose really if you really want to get the new one. the 3g signal is not as good. but if you turn off the 3g, it will revert back to edge and edge signal strength.

Good point. Any tests on length of battery life solely on EDGE with iPhone V2 -- i.e., do we know if it is, indeed, the same.

ros3ntan

07-16-2008, 11:00 AM

It depends on one's reading speed (which is constant regardless of download time), so total time might not be 'halved.'

Also, in the case of the other uses -- weather, stocks, email -- the question is whether EDGE significantly outperforms 3G.

Right. for small data download such as email, i don't even think that 3g is needed. EDGE works just fine and its fast enough. I think the application loading time takes longer than the download time..

merdhead

07-16-2008, 11:08 AM

sandau

07-16-2008, 11:14 AM

You should wait until the 6th generation model, it will be much better.

no, it will be clearly proven that the 5th generation model far outperformed the 6th generation model which also caused infertility in rats after extended TZ usage. Get the 5th gen, your future children will thank you.

pmjoe

07-16-2008, 11:18 AM

"Browsing" is mostly the user reading web pages, during which I assume the radio could be off or in a low power mode. I guess I find it odd that browsing would result in shorter battery life than requiring a constant signal to maintain a phone call.

That said, I'm vastly oversimplifying the issues involved. Maybe the difference is in Apple turning the screen off when the phone is by your ear (you can't turn the screen off and read a web page), and the power requirements for 3G have little to do with the posted comparison results.

JeffDM

07-16-2008, 11:19 AM

minderbinder

07-16-2008, 11:19 AM

I don't get the "unsettling" thing either. 3G simply uses more power than EDGE. Jobs said that when they shipped the first phone without 3G and people complained about the lack of it, and now that 3G is shipping, the battery result is exactly what he said.

All phones need more power for 3G, that's not going to change until there's a breakthrough in 3G technology or in battery technology.

I wonder if it would be possible to create technology that switched the phone between the two (or three, including wifi) on the fly depending on use? Like only switch to 3G when the user is browsing pages of a certain size?

stokessd

07-16-2008, 11:19 AM

The tests talk about browsing; what is "browsing"? Streaming videos from you-tube for 5 hours is way different than reading slashdot for 5 hours. When reading a slashdot type of site, it loads in a couple seconds, and you may read for 10 minutes. So an hour on slashdot (assuming good commentary and articles) is really only say six page loads. an hour on youtube is a lot of bandwidth.

Sheldon

solipsism

07-16-2008, 11:32 AM

So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?
Your opinions please!!!
1) There are no battery 'issues'.

2) C&V can come with a software update.

3) Video recording can come via a software update or a 3rd-party app.

Even if the battery life is halved, with surfing speeds almost doubled isn't it kind of a wash in terms of what you actually get to browse? I think I'd prefer less waiting for pages to load and getting through quicker!
But you are still maintaining a 3G connection while reading the pages.

edit: Pipped by Anantksundaram.

You can always turn off the 3g network and get the same battery life. Nothing to lose really if you really want to get the new one. the 3g signal is not as good. but if you turn off the 3g, it will revert back to edge and edge signal strength.
If you aren't using WiFi you should also turn that off, too. While it's the radio that uses the least amount of power if you are only using EDGE then you don't need it on. Every little bit helps.

Timon

07-16-2008, 11:33 AM

Why do people even bother with battery tests dependent on cell radios? There's no way you can control the power of signal to and from the base station(s), making any measurement pretty much useless.

The way to do it is either (a) setup your own cell in a Faraday cage (see below) and measure accordingly or (b) install software on many, many phones that measures battery performance with normal use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_Cage

You really don't care about how much power the cell tower uses because that does not figure into battery life but how far you are from the cell tower makes a BIG difference.

If your close to the cell tower your phone will reduce it's transmit power and the further you are from the cell tower the phone will increase it's transmit power. This is all under the control of the cell tower. You never see this, other than your phone getting warmer the further you are from the tower, but if you had a field strength meter you would see your phones signal increasing as you move away from the tower.

So if you were sitting under the tower you might get well over 5 hours maybe even 6 or 7. If you were near the fringe of the cell tower coverage area you might only get 3 hours or less.

Europe has a much higher density of cell towers than the US so they might see longer battery life on average that the US.

melgross

07-16-2008, 11:35 AM

So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?

Your opinions please!!!

You should wait for the fourth generation. That will be even better.

Seriously, what do you expect in something like this? Does it do what you want? If so, buy it. If not, don't.

You are the only one here who can answer that.

It will never be perfect.

Gee4orce

07-16-2008, 11:37 AM

melgross

07-16-2008, 11:38 AM

melgross

07-16-2008, 11:44 AM

You really don't care about how much power the cell tower uses because that does not figure into battery life but how far you are from the cell tower makes a BIG difference.

If your close to the cell tower your phone will reduce it's transmit power and the further you are from the cell tower the phone will increase it's transmit power. This is all under the control of the cell tower. You never see this, other than your phone getting warmer the further you are from the tower, but if you had a field strength meter you would see your phones signal increasing as you move away from the tower.

So if you were sitting under the tower you might get well over 5 hours maybe even 6 or 7. If you were near the fringe of the cell tower coverage area you might only get 3 hours or less.

Europe has a much higher density of cell towers than the US so they might see longer battery life on average that the US.

Why is there this assumption that the stronger the signal, the longer the battery life. One has nothing to do with the other.

We're talking about RF. The amplification is the same regardless. The only difference is in the reception. With a stronger signal, you get better reception, with less noise. There is no difference in RF amplification internally. That's fixed by the RF sensitivity.

solipsism

07-16-2008, 11:47 AM

I wonder if it would be possible to create technology that switched the phone between the two (or three, including wifi) on the fly depending on use? Like only switch to 3G when the user is browsing pages of a certain size?
It's possible. but to go from EDGE to HSDPA takes a few seconds to connect to the network. Having your internet switch to WiFi is virtually seamless though. I would like to have this feature and have it also choose whether I want 3G for Safari and YouTube and 2G everything else in the preferences.

Some examples of issues would arise (which is why i think Apple may not implement it) is if you were on a 2G call and wanted to use Safari to check a movie time. You couldn't do this without first ending the call, going into Safari to establish 3G and then making the call again so you can chat over the films.

Another issue is that if you did go into Safari the 2G single would drop and the 3G would start to initiate. This can take several seconds. If you are just checking a website for a couple seconds before getting back out then this would be a pain, but if you are like me and will spend 10-30 minutes in Safari it would be a nice feature.

The last time of issue would be the lack of disconnect going from an app running as 3G and then taking a call. If you are in Safari and a call comes in that you take the 3G connection would have to be maintained for that call.

While these issues may deter many I would like to have to the option and hope a savvy coders an make it happen.

PS: I'd also like 3G on/off switch in settings above Airplane Mode. Having to go through 3 screens to keeping toggling 3G is a pain.

The tests talk about browsing; what is "browsing"? Streaming videos from you-tube for 5 hours is way different than reading slashdot for 5 hours. When reading a slashdot type of site, it loads in a couple seconds, and you may read for 10 minutes. So an hour on slashdot (assuming good commentary and articles) is really only say six page loads. an hour on youtube is a lot of bandwidth.
It's all relative. The tests for many sites disclose their basic method. Usually they keep access sites at a rate faster than one read them, but they are not playing video.

melgross

07-16-2008, 11:48 AM

EDGE might last 2x as long as 3G - BUT everything takes 3x longer to download ! so surely, overall, the better experience is to be had on the iPhone 3G ?

I'm willing to bet that in 3 hours of browsing a 3G owner will have actually managed to view more web pages than an original EDGE iPhone owner does in 5 or 6 ....

There's a fallacy in that argument. You are not alone in making it.

Just as with the internet on our computers, the faster we go, the more we do. Our browsing time does not go down, we do more of it, and spend the same amount of time online.

The same will be true of iPhone use.

HFU

07-16-2008, 11:58 AM

anantksundaram

07-16-2008, 12:00 PM

There's a fallacy in that argument. You are not alone in making it.

Just as with the internet on our computers, the faster we go, the more we do. Our browsing time does not go down, we do more of it, and spend the same amount of time online.

The same will be true of iPhone use.

Excellent point. Indeed, we know that it is already true of iPhone usage in general (compared to other 'smart'phones).

Bergermeister

07-16-2008, 12:01 PM

You should wait for the fourth generation. That will be even better.

Seriously, what do you expect in something like this? Does it do what you want? If so, buy it. If not, don't.

You are the only one here who can answer that.

It will never be perfect.

For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.

Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.

melgross

07-16-2008, 12:12 PM

According to iFixit (http://live.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/iPhone3G), the battery (Apple part #616-0372) on iPhone 3G is not soldered as in the first gen iPhone. Could we expect third party or Apple's own heavy duty battery pack?

This page (http://certificates.iecee.org/cbtestcert/cbtestcert.nsf/eff34981b15cb391c12570a0004e79dd/d58dff04f62abec8c12574030050e226?OpenDocument) also listed the battery as 1150 mAh unlike the original 1440 mAh. Maybe someone more informed with battery information can help to dig up more info?

a heavy duty battery would be larger, as would be expected. Unless there's extra room in the case, which doesn't seem to be the situation, there would be no room for this special battery.

Of course, Apple doesn't always use the most powerful technology because of reliability (fires, remember), so third party battery suppliers have been selling batteries with higher current density for iPods for years. That's possible here as well.

It's not clear in any of the takedowns I've seen so far whether those screws are the only thing to do to open the case. If so, it's fairly easy (but be careful!). If not, then it's a different story.

melgross

07-16-2008, 12:14 PM

For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.

Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.

And some day they will have it.

But then, they will expect more, and so the cycle continues.

merdhead

07-16-2008, 12:24 PM

You have a point, but a faraday cage test is going to get the lower bound because the radio is going to transmit as powerful a signal it can in seeking towers, so it's not going to represent meaningful use either. In actual use, the signal is just high enough to be useful so as to not waste power.
The idea is to have the cell inside the Faraday cage so you can control transmit variables. Then you could get a fix on the efficiency of the device.

merdhead

07-16-2008, 12:26 PM

For some reason, people expect to be able to surf the net, listen to music and talk to their friends (plural used here because the iPhone has conference capability) all at the same time for ten hours straight.

Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.
You're right we should expect less and just buy what we're given. Down with progress!

jbella

07-16-2008, 12:40 PM

So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?

Your opinions please!!!

Battery life is the only thing on your list that would depend on new hardware.

Cut and paste and video recording should just be a matter of a software upgrade.

merdhead

07-16-2008, 12:42 PM

It's possible. but to go from EDGE to HSDPA takes a few seconds to connect to the network. Having your internet switch to WiFi is virtually seamless though. I would like to have this feature and have it also choose whether I want 3G for Safari and YouTube and 2G everything else in the preferences.

Some examples of issues would arise (which is why i think Apple may not implement it) is if you were on a 2G call and wanted to use Safari to check a movie time. You couldn't do this without first ending the call, going into Safari to establish 3G and then making the call again so you can chat over the films.

Another issue is that if you did go into Safari the 2G single would drop and the 3G would start to initiate. This can take several seconds. If you are just checking a website for a couple seconds before getting back out then this would be a pain, but if you are like me and will spend 10-30 minutes in Safari it would be a nice feature.

The last time of issue would be the lack of disconnect going from an app running as 3G and then taking a call. If you are in Safari and a call comes in that you take the 3G connection would have to be maintained for that call.

While these issues may deter many I would like to have to the option and hope a savvy coders an make it happen.

PS: I'd also like 3G on/off switch in settings above Airplane Mode. Having to go through 3 screens to keeping toggling 3G is a pain.

It's all relative. The tests for many sites disclose their basic method. Usually they keep access sites at a rate faster than one read them, but they are not playing video.
This idea isn't practical. You'd need fully duplicate the RF paths in the device (more size and expense and battery usage) or put up with extended delays. For instance, what happens when there is no 3G network? The phone would switch to 3G for several seconds, try to connect to the 3G network for several seconds, then spend more time connecting back to 2G. Would anyone be willing to put up with delays of 15+ seconds every now and ten (and being uncontactable).

Having two RF paths might not work either since the phone systems might have a problem the phone appearing twice on the network on two different bands. It would probably need a change in the GSM standard, which means no backward compatibility which means you're back to square one.

solipsism

07-16-2008, 12:50 PM

This idea isn't practical. You'd need fully duplicate the RF paths in the device (more size and expense and battery usage) or put up with extended delays. For instance, what happens when there is no 3G network? The phone would switch to 3G for several seconds, try to connect to the 3G network for several seconds, then spend more time connecting back to 2G. Would anyone be willing to put up with delays of 15+ seconds every now and ten (and being uncontactable).
I'd put up with that because of the area I'm in, the type of user I am, and the fact that I'm doing it all now but manually through the settings, so an auto-option would be a blessing for me. As stated, I doubt Apple would do this, but I hope a 3rd-party coder for jailbroken iPhone is the same kind of user I am.

Having two RF paths might not work either since the phone systems might have a problem the phone appearing twice on the network on two different bands. It would probably need a change in the GSM standard, which means no backward compatibility which means you're back to square one.
I'd much rather use GSM for all calls and UMTS for data but I'm also under the assumption this is not possible with the way the mobile network is designed.

3goldens

07-16-2008, 01:13 PM

solipsism

07-16-2008, 01:27 PM

teckstud

07-16-2008, 01:31 PM

So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?

Your opinions please!!!

WAIT!
1.)It will have a better camera.
2.) It should have a swappable battery.
3.)It will be half the price.:lol:

teckstud

07-16-2008, 01:34 PM

Ten years ago, none of this was really possible, so we have come a long way, yet people still expect more.

NO- just a replaceable battery. NOt having one is regressive not progressive.

crazybrit@mac.com

07-16-2008, 02:05 PM

So my question is, should I wait for the 3rd generation of Iphone or splurge now? Will the battery issues, cut, copy and paste, and video recording be in the 3rd generation or will we again get bits and pieces?

Your opinions please!!!

I stood in line a year ago, and bought the first generation iPhone. I had a year of use, and then stood in line for the 3g. I sold my first iPhone yesterday for $350 on eBay. I say don't wait!:lol:

foobar

07-16-2008, 02:08 PM

In its analysis of the matter, Anandtech noted that Apple has been unable to achieve a substantial edge over other smartphones for 3G Internet use because it "doesn't design any of the chips or battery technology that goes into the iPhone, [and therefore] doesn't really have much control over things like 3G battery life."

That observation, however, lends hidden promise for future generations of the touch-screen handset. Apple recently purchased boutique microprocessor design firm PA Sem

I'm not sure I buy that. I think the fact that they can chose from several 3rd party offerings is an advantage. If they fabricated (or will fabricate) their own chips, they're stuck to them, even if they're mediocre.

TenoBell

07-16-2008, 02:20 PM

ros3ntan

07-16-2008, 02:23 PM

It's being compared to see what, if any, difference there may be. As we can see, it's quite a lot.

Hope everyone here remembers those who stated quite definitely, that there was NO difference in power usage between EDGE and 3G.

That was despite overwhelming evidence that there was.

I know people who owns other 3g phones. They all experienced more battery drainage then edge.

solipsism

07-16-2008, 02:24 PM

I'm not sure I buy that. I think the fact that they can chose from several 3rd party offerings is an advantage. If they fabricated (or will fabricate) their own chips, they're stuck to them, even if they're mediocre.

I don't buy it either. Apple plays the long game but there is too much time, effort & money involved and evidence that Apple could do better. There are plenty of other aspects that P.A. Semi can benefit Apple as well as ways for Apple to better manage the power management with firmware upgrades.

TenoBell

07-16-2008, 02:25 PM

NO- just a replaceable battery. NOt having one is regressive not progressive.

Why continue complaining about the replaceable battery? This has been apart of Apple's design philosophy for seven years and it's obviously not going to change.

There are many other phones that offer repleacable batteries.

federmoose

07-16-2008, 02:28 PM

the reports are just about right. consider the phone like less of a phone and more like a computer, though, and its a reasonable lifetime. if you need more, just go to 2g or buy a battery extender dongle.

ros3ntan

07-16-2008, 02:38 PM

Why continue complaining about the replaceable battery? This has been apart of Apple's design philosophy for seven years and it's obviously not going to change.

There are many other phones that offer repleacable batteries.

I agree. I mean i used the first gen iphone and i never really had problems with the battery. the ipod that i have loses the battery after 3 long years. And 3 years is a very long time for Apple not to come up with something. pretty sure by then, Apple will have 5th generation iphone already. Which carries more features.

merdhead

07-16-2008, 03:19 PM

WAIT!
1.)It will have a better camera.
2.) It should have a swappable battery.
3.)It will be half the price.:lol:
1) Probably
2) Yeah, just like iPods have a swappable battery after 7 years
3) It's already "free" now, but essentially the iPhone will stay at much the same price but have more features and memory, like all the other products Apple sells.

Constable Odo

07-16-2008, 03:43 PM

You can buy this model iPhone 3G and pray that some after-market company manages to design a battery that fits into the iPhone that will double the present battery life. Even if it costs $50 or so. I told anybody that would listen that the iPhone is too good a device to put down and the end result will be a short-lived battery life. What's really amusing is that Apple decided to use a battery with less reserve in this model even though the 3G would potentially be a power hog. I would have traded for a thicker case with longer battery life in an instant.

Lucas Arts is coming out with a Star Wars game for the iPhone. Looks great, so be prepared to spend hours running down the battery with no replacement in sight. There is also a rechargeable battery booster for the iPhone 3G on the near horizon. It's supposed to arrive sometime in late August. It's bulky as hell, but what the hey, better than having a completely dead iPhone.

Timon

07-16-2008, 05:46 PM

Why is there this assumption that the stronger the signal, the longer the battery life. One has nothing to do with the other.

We're talking about RF. The amplification is the same regardless. The only difference is in the reception. With a stronger signal, you get better reception, with less noise. There is no difference in RF amplification internally. That's fixed by the RF sensitivity.

The received level at the phone has nothing to do with battery life as the same amount of battery power is used to receive a strong or week signal. It's totally different when sending however.

The phone only uses at much transmit power as needed to keep a given signal strength at the cell tower and that is controlled using protocol between the phone and the tower. The farther the phone is from the tower the more power the phone has to use to keep a useable signal at the tower.

The signal strength drops off at the square of the distance so you get half the signal at 200 feet as you would at 100 feet and one forth the signal at 400 feet as you would at 100 feet. If you were 1,000 feet from a 100 foot cell tower you would need 10 time the power to reach it as you would if you were sitting directly under it. If your phone needed 2 watts to reach the tower at 1,000 feet it would only need .2 watts if you were under it. So as you can see you phone will use more power the farther you are away from the tower.

Bottom line is that you need to test under the exact same conditions which includes accessing the same tower from the same location at the same time. If you run the test on different days from different locations your going to get totally different results.

The best way to test is in a screen room with a cell phone tester. I bet that none of the magazines have one although they could rent a facility but that's going to cost several thousands of dollars a day.

melgross

07-16-2008, 06:27 PM

irnchriz

07-16-2008, 06:39 PM

Why is this unsettling again? we all know that 3g uses more battery life than edge.. so it should be expected that the phone will not last as long as the original.

The unsettling fact is apple has yet to deliver on its promises of 5 hours browsing time.

btw, why are they comparing 3g and edge on battery life???

I live in a strong 3G signal area and managed four hours 27 minutes of browsing and app downloading last night. The iPhone was fully charged before I started and I put it back on the charger when it was at the 10% warning (so I could have probably had another 25 minutes or so of browsing.)

The time must be affected by the strength of the signal. Previous mobile phones would chew through the battery in a very short space of time when used in a weak signal area. The phone is in touch with the cell tower so it transmits periodically to let the network know that it is online.

I had an Orange UK mobile (samsung D900) and at home the signal was very poor (one bar to zero) Normally you would get days of standby time but at home the phone would last no-longer than a day without being charged due to the weak signal.

(If you are browsing the web then you are transmitting packet data back to the cell tower, the closer the cell the less transmit power is used)

melgross

07-16-2008, 06:52 PM

I'm not sure I buy that. I think the fact that they can chose from several 3rd party offerings is an advantage. If they fabricated (or will fabricate) their own chips, they're stuck to them, even if they're mediocre.

Not true. Every phone maker has access to the same chips. It's actually quite good that Apple has achieved such good battery performance.

But, if Apple did design their own chips, and they didn't meet expectations, they could always go back to something else. Apple's new chip division doesn't fab anything themselves.

I doubt if they would move over until their own designs did what they wanted them to do.

The advantage to being a design house rather than a chip manufacturer is that they don't have those up front costs of running and owning those factories.

It's also why so many smaller chip companies use third party manufacturers such as Chartered to make their product for them. It's even possible that Apple could work out a deal with Intel. Likely? Maybe not, but possible.

melgross

07-16-2008, 06:55 PM

I know people who owns other 3g phones. They all experienced more battery drainage then edge.

That's what I'm saying.

We had people here saying, "Not true, not true, Apples lying to us about this."

irnchriz

07-16-2008, 06:56 PM

That is disappointing.

Given that EGDE is **not bad at all** for most uses when there are four or more bars, V1 is beginning to look better and better.

Perhaps I will hold off for a bit before buying V2.

Don't listen to all of the naysayers. I had a v1 and now have the 3G. The browsing speed annihilates edge and the wifi signal strength is also much improved.

Battery life is excellent, if you need more talk time turn 3G off, turn the brightness to auto etc just normal power saving stuff. Switch on 3G when you are browsing (it only takes a sec to pop on the 3G network).

Edge & gprs is more than fast enough to cope with google maps and GPS tracking.

Compared to previous handsets I have had, Nokia N70, N73 & N95 the battery life is ace.

Also, all of you moaning about a removable battery. No one has carried multiple cell phone batteries around with them since the 80's.

melgross

07-16-2008, 10:48 PM

The phone only uses at much transmit power as needed to keep a given signal strength at the cell tower and that is controlled using protocol between the phone and the tower. The farther the phone is from the tower the more power the phone has to use to keep a useable signal at the tower.

The signal strength drops off at the square of the distance so you get half the signal at 200 feet as you would at 100 feet and one forth the signal at 400 feet as you would at 100 feet. If you were 1,000 feet from a 100 foot cell tower you would need 10 time the power to reach it as you would if you were sitting directly under it. If your phone needed 2 watts to reach the tower at 1,000 feet it would only need .2 watts if you were under it. So as you can see you phone will use more power the farther you are away from the tower.

If so, that's interesting, as portable transmitters don't normally work that way.

4metta

07-16-2008, 11:52 PM

I find the edge network herein NYC to be almost non existent and that the ATT services are abysmal compared to Verizon.

I almost was never without coverage anywhere that I went and rarely did I run out of battery power.

This phone is a HUGE disappointment after waiting all these months.

It's not the phone that sucks in your case it's the carrier.

The iPhone is a gem. Has great battery life FOR A 3G PHONE. But as I said before, 3G kills batteries. I am just waiting to get 2nd gen one running on TMobile. EDGE works fast enough for me and I'd rather not have to constantly search for an outlet to charge my phone throughout the day.

4metta

07-16-2008, 11:55 PM

You can always turn off the 3g network and get the same battery life. Nothing to lose really if you really want to get the new one. the 3g signal is not as good. but if you turn off the 3g, it will revert back to edge and edge signal strength.

Actually you DO have something to lose: your money. AT&T will charge you for the 3G data plan regardless if you use it or not.

solipsism

07-16-2008, 11:55 PM

That's what I'm saying.

We had people here saying, "Not true, not true, Apples lying to us about this."

What did happen to those people? They were pretty fervent about Apple cheating them out of 3G and lying about it.

melgross

07-17-2008, 12:34 AM

What did happen to those people? They were pretty fervent about Apple cheating them out of 3G and lying about it.

What always happens; They hope no one remembers who they were.

teckstud

07-17-2008, 07:27 AM

Why continue complaining about the replaceable battery? This has been apart of Apple's design philosophy for seven years and it's obviously not going to change.

Don't be so sure of yourself. That "philosophy" was for an iPod not a iPhone. You can't dial 911 on an iPod.
It is a design flaw- and most of the reviewers have already said it.

NOFEER

07-17-2008, 08:08 AM

i read somewhere there is a phone case that includes a backup battery, i'll just keep it plugged in while driving and get a second charger for the office. the japanese market is so sophisticated what is the typical battery life of their handsets.???

solipsism

07-17-2008, 11:31 AM

i read somewhere there is a phone case that includes a backup battery

Mophie Juice Pack, but it's still only for the original iPhone.

Bergermeister

07-17-2008, 12:09 PM

Don't be so sure of yourself. That "philosophy" was for an iPod not a iPhone. You can't dial 911 on an iPod.
It is a design flaw- and most of the reviewers have already said it.

When Steve introduced it last year, he said it was an iPod, a telephone and a mobile internet device.

So, it is an iPod which also happens to have a phone and internet device built in.
:)

melgross

07-17-2008, 02:58 PM

Don't be so sure of yourself. That "philosophy" was for an iPod not a iPhone. You can't dial 911 on an iPod.
It is a design flaw- and most of the reviewers have already said it.

It's not a design flaw. That's when the designers make a mistake that results in some obscure problem that results in a product that breaks, is dangerous, or has otherwise unrealised poor performance.

This was a choice that Apple make quite consciously. While it may not be best for some people, it's not a flaw in design.

ap780

07-17-2008, 06:31 PM

exactly what I think, I'm on my 3g iPhone at the moment on 3g and I got half battery, time to switch to wi-fi and it's an ipod cause that's what he announesed first lol

teckstud

07-18-2008, 09:37 AM

It's not a design flaw. That's when the designers make a mistake that results in some obscure problem that results in a product that breaks, is dangerous, or has otherwise unrealised poor performance.

This was a choice that Apple make quite consciously. While it may not be best for some people, it's not a flaw in design.

It's not best for corporate America to not have a replaceable battery. Leaving this out for the sake of having a completely smooth surface is a flawed design choice.

teckstud

07-18-2008, 09:40 AM

When Steve introduced it last year, he said it was an iPod, a telephone and a mobile internet device.

So, it is an iPod which also happens to have a phone and internet device built in.
:)

My guess is that if Steve told you it was a toaster then it must me a toater.
It's a smartphone. Put down the iKool-aid.

solipsism

07-18-2008, 09:59 AM

It's not best for corporate America to not have a replaceable battery. Leaving this out for the sake of having a completely smooth surface is a flawed design choice.
what is your argument for a user-replaceable battery? Prior to when the iPhone came out one of the arguments was "how do you reset it when it freezes?" I'm sure you are have something more concrete but that one still makes me laugh.

By the way, the iPhone has a 1400mAh battery and you can get a 1700mAh extrnal battery pack for $50. a few of these don't seem like a bad deal for the few that need it.

My guess is that if Steve told you it was a toaster then it must me a toater.
It's a smartphone. Put down the iKool-aid.
It is a smartphone, though Jobs will never call it that. I believe Apple coined the term 'PC' and then latter disassociated itself from the term when IBM started using it. I also recall Scully coining the term 'PDA'.

note: I can't find evidence to support the origin of the term 'PC'. Either I was lied to, my Google skills are slacking an/or I'm losing my mind.

melgross

07-18-2008, 10:05 AM

It's not best for corporate America to not have a replaceable battery. Leaving this out for the sake of having a completely smooth surface is a flawed design choice.

Not really. There is no question that very few will actually find this to be a real problem. Whatever Apple's reason was, the complaint was the same for the iPods, and the first iPhone as well.

It's like anything, if it doesn't suit you, don't buy it. I'm sure there are plenty of other reasons for some people not to buy it, but that doesn't make those reasons flaws either.

That's like saying that anything that doesn't fit someone's needs is flawed. Not true.

Bergermeister

07-18-2008, 10:14 AM

It's not best for corporate America to not have a replaceable battery. Leaving this out for the sake of having a completely smooth surface is a flawed design choice.

I remember reading somewhere that many managers and company heads bought the first iPhone... so much for not satisfying the needs of corporate America.

Went to my local cel phone shop today and talked to the manager. He said only the rare customer bought a spare battery. They did sell quite a few battery packs, however.

teckstud

07-18-2008, 10:19 AM

what is your argument for a user-replaceable battery? Prior to when the iPhone came out one of the arguments was "how do you reset it when it freezes?" I'm sure you are have something more concrete but that one still makes me laugh.

By the way, the iPhone has a 1400mAh battery and you can get a 1700mAh extrnal battery pack for $50. a few of these don't seem like a bad deal for the few that need it.

It is a smartphone, though Jobs will never call it that. I believe Apple coined the term 'PC' and then latter disassociated itself from the term when IBM started using it. I also recall Scully coining the term 'PDA'.

note: I can't find evidence to support the origin of the term 'PC'. Either I was lied to, my Google skills are slacking an/or I'm losing my mind.

Thanks for the info. However I do believe that it will have a replaceable battery eventually. It's more of a minus than a plus not to have it. One shouldn't have to send in their phone to replace it if it dwindles or dies and not all batteries last exactly the same life span anyway. Who cares when an iPod starts too dwindle- it's not your communication lifeline but your phone is.

What came first: PC 's meaning as a computer or Politically Correct?

teckstud

07-18-2008, 10:20 AM

I remember reading somewhere that many managers and company heads bought the first iPhone... so much for not satisfying the needs of corporate America.

Went to my local cel phone shop today and talked to the manager. He said only the rare customer bought a spare battery. They did sell quite a few battery packs, however.

Of course you don't buy a spare battery! But when it dwindles or dies you walk into the store, buy a battery and replace it in 5 minutes- geeessh.

solipsism

07-18-2008, 10:46 AM

Thanks for the info. However I do believe that it will have a replaceable battery eventually.
I don't think it will happen. There are structural and engineering benefits to not having a user-replaceable battery. I do think the screws and non-soldered battery will mean that Apple Stores (and perhaps carrier affiliated stores) will be able to change the battery for you in the future. There is no need to announce it yet as the 3G is new.

What came first: PC 's meaning as a computer or Politically Correct?
The OED dates the term 'politically correct' back to 1793, but the initialism doesn't appear until 1986. The term 'personal computer' is from 1976 with the initialism dating to 1978.

This is common as the phenomenon of acronyms and initialisms didn't appear until the 20th century, starting out mainly in the military and then later moving to the computer industry.

Of course you don't buy a spare battery! But when it dwindles or dies you walk into the store, buy a battery and replace it in 5 minutes- geeessh.

But how many of us have had to change our batteries? I've never needed to replace a dying battery in a phone, even once, but I've had the damn battery cover require tape to stay on many phones. Disclosure: I probably update my HW more often that most people.

TenoBell

07-18-2008, 11:37 AM

Having to tape the battery cover is a real design flaw.

teckstud

07-18-2008, 11:38 AM

But how many of us have had to change our batteries? I've never needed to replace a dying battery in a phone, even once, but I've had the damn battery cover require tape to stay on many phones. Disclosure: I probably update my HW more often that most people.

I've had to change the battery on everything at about the 1 1/2 year point. And god knows my iPods' battery charges didn't last as long at that point in time either.
Same with my iBooks- but I could replace those easily. See Apple can design and make that feature. Isn't that a major critique point of the Air as well?

TenoBell

07-18-2008, 11:52 AM

I've had to change the battery on everything at about the 1 1/2 year point. And god knows my iPods' battery charges didn't last as long at that point in time either.
Same with my iBooks- but I could replace those easily. See Apple can design and make that feature. Isn't that a major critique point of the Air as well?

Trading annecdotal evidence. I've had a PowerBook since 2003. I've never changed the battery. The PB is ready for a new battery but I'm soon to replace it with a MBP. An iPod from 2005 that has no battery problems. My year old iPhone can still go two days on one charge if I don't use the internet.

teckstud

07-18-2008, 12:01 PM

Trading annecdotal evidence. I've had a PowerBook since 2003. I've never changed the battery. The PB is ready for a new battery but I'm soon to replace it with a MBP. An iPod from 2005 that has no battery problems. My year old iPhone can still go two days on one charge if I don't use the internet.

You state the PB battery you never change and then state in the next sentence it's ready for a new battery? What am I missing here?
How often so you use your iPod?
And I wouldn't expect a product (iPhone) only 1 year old to need replacement with it's battery.

Bergermeister

07-18-2008, 12:12 PM

What is the focus on the battery? If you don't like the arrangement, don't buy. As you said, if Apple doesn't make products, they don't make money. They are making products, people want them and they are making lots of money. Is there something I'm missing?

I have old iPods, one a 2G, that have never had battery problems. I have an MBA and don't care that Apple will need to replace the battery sometime in the future; it has already made me more money than it cost to buy less than six months ago. My iPhone also has a non-user-replaceable battery, but I don't care about that, either. I have had one notebook that needed its battery replaced after two years; I only replaced the battery because I chose not to replace the computer, which I used in class (on battery power) for 3 to 5 hours every day, necessitating a full charge daily, sometimes twice, which will kill any battery.

Many, many other people don't seem to care, either, because they keep buying MBA's, iPods and iPhones. It simply doesn't seem to be the drop-dead, you-gotta-be-outta-your-mind problem some make it out to be.

It seems that some people are searching for any excuse to bash the iPhone

TenoBell

07-18-2008, 12:15 PM

You state the PB battery you never change and then state in the next sentence it's ready for a new battery? What am I missing here?
How often so you use your iPod?
And I wouldn't expect a product (iPhone) only 1 year old to need replacement with it's battery.

The PB is 5 years old. The battery holds a little less than an hour charge. To use it unplugged for multiple hours it needs a new battery. I've never felt the need to buy a new battery. Plus with the iPhone I carry my notebook a lot less than I used to.

I've used the iPod a lot over the years. In New York you walk and take mass transit. I use it less post iPhone.

melgross

07-18-2008, 11:12 PM

Thanks for the info. However I do believe that it will have a replaceable battery eventually. It's more of a minus than a plus not to have it. One shouldn't have to send in their phone to replace it if it dwindles or dies and not all batteries last exactly the same life span anyway. Who cares when an iPod starts too dwindle- it's not your communication lifeline but your phone is.

What came first: PC 's meaning as a computer or Politically Correct?

You might be right. While we won't know until, and if it happens, it's possible that someday Apple will move to a replaceable battery.

But, to tell the truth, the old iPhone, at least (the new one is too new to know) is very reliable, and sturdy.

But, on the street, and on the subway here in NYC, I've seen plenty of people over the years dropping their portable whatnots, and the first thing that happens is that the battery pops off. Often they can't get it to attach again, because the small catches are broken on either the battery, or phone. I have a couple of phones here from my daughter's friends that had this happen, that they asked me to fix. Unfortunately, that wasn't possible, and they needed new phones.

melgross

07-18-2008, 11:18 PM

I don't think it will happen. There are structural and engineering benefits to not having a user-replaceable battery. I do think the screws and non-soldered battery will mean that Apple Stores (and perhaps carrier affiliated stores) will be able to change the battery for you in the future. There is no need to announce it yet as the 3G is new.

While I agree with those reasons, and have used them myself, There could come a time when Apple may have no choice.

If it's either using a much bigger battery, or figuring out a way to have a replaceable one, Apple may choose a replaceable one. For reasons of being "PC".

It's a matter of sales. If Apple sees sales as being impacted significantly, they may not have a choice.

Right now, very few people care, but with more power draw, it might be required.

streetwiser

07-23-2008, 01:19 AM

According to Ifixit (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/iPhone3G), the 3G has only 1150 mAh. Does anyone know if that is true? I went for the 3GJUICE (http://www.3gjuice.com) battery which has over 1600 mAh. The 3G Juice battery gives my 3G an extra battery life when I click it in the 30 pins socket. I love it because I hate cables. See also a round up of these devices in Ars Technica (arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/07/18/several-backup-batteries-can-extend-your-daily-iphone-3g-use).

solipsism

07-23-2008, 01:22 AM

According to Ifixit (http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/First-Look/iPhone3G), the 3G has only 1150 mAh. Does anyone know if that is true? I went for the 3GJUICE (http://www3gjuice.com) battery which has over 1600 mAh. It gives my 3G an extra life when I click it in the 30 pins socket. I love it because I hate cables. See also a round up of these devices in Ars Technica (arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2008/07/18/several-backup-batteries-can-extend-your-daily-iphone-3g-use).

3G Juice are sayign 1150mAh, but I thought it was 1700mAh, but if IFixIT is sayign 1150mAh then I'd trust that as I know they've disassembled it and have no reason to lie about it.

streetwiser

07-23-2008, 01:25 AM

3G Juice are sayign 1150mAh, but I thought it was 1700mAh, but if IFixIT is sayign 1150mAh then I'd trust that as I know they've disassembled it and have no reason to lie about it.

tnx, but where does 3G juice say it's 1150 mAh? What is the link?

melgross

07-23-2008, 01:28 AM

3G Juice are sayign 1150mAh, but I thought it was 1700mAh, but if IFixIT is sayign 1150mAh then I'd trust that as I know they've disassembled it and have no reason to lie about it.

I thought the original phone had a 1400mAh battery, and they went to this 1150mAh version for the 3G.

streetwiser

07-23-2008, 01:31 AM

I thought the original phone had a 1400mAh battery, and they went to this 1150mAh version for the 3G.

I had that thought too, but I can't find many references on the web. Is it a secret?

solipsism

07-23-2008, 01:43 AM

tnx, but where does 3G juice say it's 1150 mAh? What is the link?
You post the link to 3g Juice (though you missed a period after 'www'). In their defense they do qualify the statement with "some say".

If you say iFixIt says differently, I'd be inclined to believe them, but I can't find it on their site.

I thought the original phone had a 1400mAh battery, and they went to this 1150mAh version for the 3G.
Me too, but I keep hearing 1150mAh, but it doesn't add up. What does make to me is that the original iPhone has the 1400mAh and the new iPhone has a 1700mAh battery. On EDGE the original iPhone got 8 hours of talk time. That is 175mAh for EDGE talk time. If the new iPhone has some better power management since the inception of the original iPhone OS X v1.0 or earlier when the 8 hours was determined and 300 more mAh is giving to the iPhone 3G, then the 10 hours of EDGE talk time makes sense. (I have the flu and I'm tired so that probably didn't make much sense... will fix in the morning if my rational is wonky)

Here is a site that lists iPhone and iPod facts and it has the original iPhone with a 1400mAh battery...• http://www.ipodbatteryfaq.com/ipodbatteryandpower.html

melgross

07-23-2008, 01:49 AM

You post the link to 3g Juice (though you missed a period after 'www'). In their defense they do qualify the statement with "some say".

If you say iFixIt says differently, I'd be inclined to believe them, but I can't find it on their site.

Me too, but I keep hearing 1150mAh, but it doesn't add up. What does make to me is that the original iPhone has the 1400mAh and the new iPhone has a 1700mAh battery. On EDGE the original iPhone got 8 hours of talk time. That is 175mAh for EDGE talk time. If the new iPhone has some better power management since the inception of the original iPhone OS X v1.0 or earlier when the 8 hours was determined and 300 more mAh is giving to the iPhone 3G, then the 10 hours of EDGE talk time makes sense. (I have the flu and I'm tired so that probably didn't make much sense... will fix in the morning if my rational is wonky)

Here is a site that lists iPhone and iPod facts and it has the original iPhone with a 1400mAh battery...• http://www.ipodbatteryfaq.com/ipodbatteryandpower.html

Well, it is a year later. They could have wrung more efficiency out of the thing.

I hope you feel better soon. Is this flu season where you are?

streetwiser

07-23-2008, 01:56 AM

That is so confusing..

I see in http://www.3gjuice.com/2008/07/15/3g-juice-small-and-powerfull/ a document quoted from ifixit.. I think they are thrust worthy. Really hope to have a solid answer backed up with some links.. Is it 1400? Is it 1150? (It's NOT 1700 for al kinds of reasons). Or is it a secret?

solipsism

07-23-2008, 01:57 AM

Well, it is a year later. They could have wrung more efficiency out of the thing.

I hope you feel better soon. Is this flu season where you are?

Better HW and SW power management and more efficient EDGE radio, but I can only magine getting 25% more usage out of the same size battery as the the old model. Getting 25% more time and lowering the battery's mAh by 18% just seems phenomenal. Plus, if Apple did advertise 1400mAh I don't see that changes only weeks before the launch date; then again the plastic to glass cover was changed rather quickly."This, iFixit claims, will probably lead the way to user-replaceable batteries - more so given that this actual battery lists a capacity of 1150 mAh, not the 1400 mAh Apple originally advertised, which probably means more powerful batteries might be on their way. It is safe to assume this is the case, since soldering will not be needed to put the battery into place in the new iPhone 3G."• http://news.softpedia.com/news/iPhone-3G-039-Dissected-039-89730.shtml

solipsism

07-23-2008, 01:59 AM

streetwiser

07-23-2008, 03:08 AM

Regardless, I'm waiting for the Mophie Juice Pack.

I thought exactly the same.

But then I used my brains.

I compared power to beauty. Those smaller batteries win. Also 3-4 Mophie Juices in my travel bag is not handy. I have to unmount the thing all the time during long trips. With these click on batteries like the 3gjuice, I can throw a handful in my bag and when my battery dies, I revive it in seconds...

solipsism

07-23-2008, 03:13 AM

I thought exactly the same.

But then I used my brains.

I compared power to beauty. Those smaller batteries win. Also 3-4 Mophie Juices in my travel bag is not handy. I have to unmount the thing all the time during long trips. With these click on batteries like the 3gjuice, I can throw a handful in my bag and when my battery dies, I revive it in seconds...

My "brain-less" reason was that an 1800mAh battery + the iPhone's battery was plenty to get me through a busy day of internet usage. Not to mention it doubles as a protective case and doesn't require a separate charging unit as it has a 30-pin connector at its base. And if I actually need more, which I doubt, I can always buy a 3G Juice pack with will uncomfortably plug into the bottom.

streetwiser

07-23-2008, 05:21 AM

My "brain-less" reason was that an 1800mAh battery + the iPhone's battery was plenty to get me through a busy day of internet usage. Not to mention it doubles as a protective case and doesn't require a separate charging unit as it has a 30-pin connector at its base. And if I actually need more, which I doubt, I can always buy a 3G Juice pack with will uncomfortably plug into the bottom.

I said, 'And then I used my brains'. I usually never do. Oh well, guess they sell these different versions because there are different users, like you and me. I'm not only going for style or power, but also for bucks. 3x Mophun = $290 3x 3G JUICE = $115. I travel a lot and need juice. Me needs lot of it.

dizzy13

09-03-2008, 08:10 PM

Regardless, I'm waiting for the Mophie Juice Pack.

I found out today the mophie juice pack 3g is shipping October 1st! I already got mine on preorder!!!

http://whenwillapple.com/saywhy/2008/09/03/mophie-juice-pack-3g-shipping-october-1st/

melgross

09-03-2008, 10:16 PM

I found out today the mophie juice pack 3g is shipping October 1st! I already got mine on preorder!!!

http://whenwillapple.com/saywhy/2008/09/03/mophie-juice-pack-3g-shipping-october-1st/

I don't know. I looked at that already. It won't fit any silicone cases, or any other cases. Too clumsy for me. I prefer a unit that I can attach when there's some free time instead.

sandau

09-03-2008, 11:00 PM

I don't know. I looked at that already. It won't fit any silicone cases, or any other cases. Too clumsy for me. I prefer a unit that I can attach when there's some free time instead.

well, i know you are looking for something that will be usable for phone use, i.e. attached, but I had a great experience with a long international flight (10+ hours) with my iPhone, watched 2 movies and 2 tv shows and played games the rest of the time - and both the Javoedge powerpack showed 'green' and the iPhone was fully charged at the end of the flight. I believe the claim on this battery is 5x charge.... I believe it, I had this thing running videos a long time and it worked like a champ for travel. its only drawback is that you can't tell 'how much' is left in it, i think it just goes from green to red, but I haven't seen red yet...

http://www.amazon.com/iPhone-Portable-Battery-Starter-SHIPPING/dp/B0014X7D52/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1220497154&sr=8-1

solipsism

09-03-2008, 11:02 PM

I don't know. I looked at that already. It won't fit any silicone cases, or any other cases. Too clumsy for me. I prefer a unit that I can attach when there's some free time instead.

I intend to use mine as a case.

melgross

09-03-2008, 11:03 PM

well, i know you are looking for something that will be usable for phone use, i.e. attached, but I had a great experience with a long international flight (10+ hours) with my iPhone, watched 2 movies and 2 tv shows and played games the rest of the time - and both the Javoedge powerpack showed 'green' and the iPhone was fully charged at the end of the flight. I believe the claim on this battery is 5x charge.... I believe it, I had this thing running videos a long time and it worked like a champ for travel. its only drawback is that you can't tell 'how much' is left in it, i think it just goes from green to red, but I haven't seen red yet...

http://www.amazon.com/iPhone-Portable-Battery-Starter-SHIPPING/dp/B0014X7D52/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1220497154&sr=8-1

For something like that, it's great. But for everyday use, I wouldn't want it attached.

melgross

09-03-2008, 11:04 PM

I intend to use mine as a case.

It's not a case.

solipsism

09-03-2008, 11:09 PM

It's not a case.

Unless there is a technical reason that won't allow me to plug in while having a full charge, it's perfect for me as a semi-protective cover and additional battery. I never had a case on my first one and I really only am rough with putting it in my pocket and tossing it on a table. My only wish is that it had a 30-pin connector pass through for when I sync it.

http://static1.shopify.com/s/files/1/0008/4942/products/JUICE_PACK_3G_front_empty_600_large.jpg

melgross

09-03-2008, 11:25 PM

Unless there is a technical reason that won't allow me to plug in while having a full charge, it's perfect for me as a semi-protective cover and additional battery. I never had a case on my first one and I really only am rough with putting it in my pocket and tossing it on a table. My only wish is that it had a 30-pin connector pass through for when I sync it.

http://static1.shopify.com/s/files/1/0008/4942/products/JUICE_PACK_3G_front_empty_600_large.jpg

That's not a case. I wear my phone, as I've done with my others, on my belt, with a horizontal case that closes over the top.

For the iPhone 3G, I bought a black silicone "skin" from incase for all of us.

I found that the incase belt case was too tight for the phone plus silicone skin, though I was told it would fit. It does fit, but really tightly.

Strangely enough, the case from my old Treo 700p, fits well, so I'm back to using that, at least for now.

JeffDM

09-03-2008, 11:34 PM

That's not a case. I wear my phone, as I've done with my others, on my belt, with a horizontal case that closes over the top.

For the iPhone 3G, I bought a black silicone "skin" from incase for all of us.

I found that the incase belt case was too tight for the phone plus silicone skin, though I was told it would fit. It does fit, but really tightly.

The DLO case is very similar in that respect. It's not designed for a skin, I returned the skin that I bought.

I think the problem is that the current belt cases assume that you want to remove it from the case in order to use it, meaning you'll risk dropping it during use. I really don't think that was a good plan.

melgross

09-03-2008, 11:50 PM

The DLO case is very similar in that respect. It's not designed for a skin, I returned the skin that I bought.

I think the problem is that the current belt cases assume that you want to remove it from the case in order to use it, meaning you'll risk dropping it during use. I really don't think that was a good plan.

I never dropped my Samsungs or Treo, but that's one reason why I want the skin. Also I feel more confident when putting it down. I don't have to be as careful. It also is much grippier.

I really think the two types of cases should be made to work together. It's an ideal match. The belt case when carrying the phone, and the skin when using it.

Almost all cases are for belt use, other than the skins, or cases for women for use in a handbag.

NOFEER

09-04-2008, 02:36 PM

melgross

09-05-2008, 03:45 AM

my solution
casemate screen protector
incipio case with plastic corner protectors (in white :) )
THEN i put it in a horizontal universal case made by LG which is big enough to handle the extra thickness, very nice, and if i drop it its got protection multiple ways.
(i went to best buy and went through ALL the horizontal leather cases to find the LG)
it's good8-):lol:8-):lol:

Pain in the neck though, wasn't it?

I was luck to have my Treo case which is still in good shape.

You would think the manufacturers would think of this.

They could sell more product too.

dizzy13

09-06-2008, 01:08 PM

I don't know. I looked at that already. It won't fit any silicone cases, or any other cases. Too clumsy for me. I prefer a unit that I can attach when there's some free time instead.

Yeah, the mophie isn't for everyone. For me it's perfect because I want something that I can take with me and still fit comfortably in my pocket. This will be perfect for trips to NYC wandering around all day using the GPS and not having to worry about stopping at a starbucks to charge up.

I also do not have a case for my iPhone 3g because I like the way it looks. Some cases are like buying a Ferrari and leaving it parked in the garage all the time because you are afraid to mess it up :D

melgross

09-06-2008, 10:55 PM

Yeah, the mophie isn't for everyone. For me it's perfect because I want something that I can take with me and still fit comfortably in my pocket. This will be perfect for trips to NYC wandering around all day using the GPS and not having to worry about stopping at a starbucks to charge up.

I also do not have a case for my iPhone 3g because I like the way it looks. Some cases are like buying a Ferrari and leaving it parked in the garage all the time because you are afraid to mess it up :D

If I were still flying as often as I used to, on the longer trips that I used to make, I would likely buy one. But my longest trips these days, except for a rare occurrence, is about two and a half hours. Not long enough for this. A Newer, or other battery that can be plugged in, is better for me. I like the incase silicone case. I really think the black looks good, and it makes the phone much surer in the hand for me.

Everyone has a different need. I don't care if anyone sees the chrome or not, I like these looks about as well. I'm also not as concerned about smacking it on something.

But I do like wearing my phones on my belt in a horizontal position, with the case covering the device. I really don't want everyone staring at it.

It's funny, about five years ago, when we had our kitchen totally redone, I got a good wine fridge. My wife and I wanted it to match the cabinetry we were having made. But most manufacturers only make the models we could use with a glass door, so that you can see the wines. We didn't want that either. We ended up getting a SubZero like our fridge, because that was the only one that allowed wood inserts.

People seem to think we're nuts for not showing off the wines, but we've never seen the point.