HSBC bank may ditch BlackBerry for 200,000 iPhones - report

[AppleInsider]

In what would surely be a blow Research in Motion, HSBC is considering a move that would strip its employees of their BlackBerry handsets and equip them with some 200,000 Apple iPhones instead.

"We are actually reviewing iPhones from a HSBC Group perspective ... and when I say that, I mean globally," HSBC's Australia and New Zealand chief information officer Brenton Hush told ZDNet.com.au on Tuesday.

HSBC is both world's largest company and banking group, with an estimated 330,000 employees globally. As such, a deployment of iPhones to just 200,000 staffers would be figuring 'conservatively,' Hush added.

"You know, it's a big decision, especially when you have an existing fleet out there," he said. "But it's definitely something we are considering from a HSBC Group perspective."

Other banks have been skeptical about unleashing the Apple handset onto their networks due to perceived inadequacies in email and security when compared to BlackBerry devices. Hush, who was recently promoted to chief information officer of the local arm of HSBC, doesn't share those same views however.

"I think [the iPhone] would change some underlying infrastructure considerations from an enterprise perspective," he said ."But [Apple] have been pretty smart with the design."

ZDNet notes that HSBC's global operations has a $6 billion annual technology budget and a technology team of 30,000 supporting 330,000 employees. Research in Motion's BlackBerry is currently the firm's standard issue handset.

HSBC is just one of over 165 Fortune 500 companies that have expressed interest in the iPhone by applying for developer status to Apple's iPhone software developer program.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=4488)

[amac4me]

If it happens, it would add another high profile enterprise level firm who has deployed the iPhone.

It's only a matter of time after iPhone deployments will we see the trickle down impact of the Mac value proposition in the enterprise. It's logical to expect that Mac use will rise over time in those firms that deploy the iPhone.

[ZagMac]

Short Term = Lots of initially excited end-users who will quickly become frustrated by all the "little things" broken (or non-existent) in iPhone's handling of various email, calendar, contacts, tasks, & to-do's compared to mature Blackberry options.

Long Term = RIMs rapid demise triggers the long-inevitable conversion of Canada into U.S.'s 51st state

Or maybe not. What the hell do I know?

[Hattig]

Short Term = Lots of initially excited end-users who will quickly become frustrated by all the "little things" broken (or non-existent) in iPhone's handling of various email, calendar, contacts, tasks, & to-do's compared to mature Blackberry options.

Long Term = RIMs rapid demise triggers the long-inevitable conversion of Canada into U.S.'s 51st state

Or maybe not. What the hell do I know?

About as likely as a surprise republican win in the next election triggering a swathe of northern states to leave the US and join Canada!

HSBC better not do this until Apple have sorted out all of the small niggles and got a fixed 3G chipset firmware installed. And a ToDo list application that integrates with Outlook (although Outlook's ToDo functionality is verging on pointless and dire, but then again I've used OmniOutliner...)

[CREB]

Until Apple offers an extend battery I do not believe that enterprise will be happy with the iPhone 3G. This is not a criticism, it's based upon experience.

[mark2005]

Companies are starting to move beyond just email for the mobile user; not to browser-based apps, but to their own customized apps that use the Internet for information access. For that, the combination of a great UI, app development tools, and app deployment mechanism will be a huge advantage.

Of course, RIM and others can do the same, though it will take some time. Apple has blindsided its mobile competitors. And it explains why Apple kept its native app story and App Store ambiguous (or really hidden in plain sight) until it was ready to go.

The fact that iPhone continues to be "closed" is a sign that Apple is serious about enterprise sales. Going forward, there will be tension between enterprises who want iPhone to be more closed, and hackers who want it to be more open. And I think Apple is going to be siding with enterprises.

[mark2005]

Until Apple offers an extend battery I do not believe that enterprise will be happy with the iPhone 3G. This is not a criticism, it's based upon experience.

You can buy extended batteries from third parties today. Are you saying it must be Apple-branded?

[Mr Underhill]

Sounds like he's trying to negotiate his next order of Blackberries to me.

[piano08man]

They really shouldn't rely on the iPhone for their business just yet. The software is still horrible. I'm getting tired of restoring my phone every other day so I'm hoping that I just received a defective phone and I'm heading to the bar tonight to get it replaced. I could never recommend the iPhone to a company that relies on their smartphones for business. If it were later on in the game when Apple hopefully fixes the bugs and instability... sure. But not now.

[ascii]

If they have some custom apps they want to deploy they should go for it, but if it's just for messaging then why change.

[dr_lha]

You can buy extended batteries from third parties today. Are you saying it must be Apple-branded?
True, but they're clunky solutions compared to just getting a spare battery out of your briefcase. If Apple are serious about going after Enterprise users they would do well to develop a "pro" iPhone with features that business users can't live without (like a replaceable battery) and maybe even a keyboard.

[CREB]

And I think Apple is going to be siding with enterprises.Are you familiar with how Jobs thinks? It is not along the enterprise model.

You can buy extended batteries from third parties today. Are you saying it must be Apple-branded?Enterprise will always prefer a company brand versus an aftermarket.

[Abster2core]

Do you really think that the likes of HSBC doesn't have the expertise in planning, vetting, coordinating, deploying, etc., communication devices such as the iphone to make their own decision?

Or are you guys so well above them that they have come here to listen to continually disparaging rhetoric from the same individuals over and over again?

[JoeDRC]

True, but they're clunky solutions compared to just getting a spare battery out of your briefcase. If Apple are serious about going after Enterprise users they would do well to develop a "pro" iPhone with features that business users can't live without (like a replaceable battery) and maybe even a keyboard.

a keyboard, lol

[fabsgwu]

Short term: Copy/Paste added.
Long term: Apple is the new Microsoft. (just kidding... ?)

[Rot'nApple]

About as likely as a surprise republican win in the next election triggering a swathe of northern states to leave the US and join Canada!

Oooooh, something to look forward to when the Dems lose the presidential election. ;)

I don't care if it triggers a swathe of northern states to leave the US to join Canada, but MA, that's a different story - See ya, Ted! 8-)

[cameronj]

True, but they're clunky solutions compared to just getting a spare battery out of your briefcase. If Apple are serious about going after Enterprise users they would do well to develop a "pro" iPhone with features that business users can't live without (like a replaceable battery) and maybe even a keyboard.

I just picked up one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Amstron-PP33-External-Universal-Battery/dp/B000U8F94Y

Pretty nice, it's just a little smaller than the iPhone and comes with accessories for attaching to other types of devices that take power over USB jacks.

I figure it will be a great thing to have when I am on a trip or in an airport. It has enough juice to fully charge the iPhone twice, so between the phone itself and the battery, you can get three charges. Something to consider for people unhappy with the 3G battery life.

[TenoBell]

True, but they're clunky solutions compared to just getting a spare battery out of your briefcase.

OTOH the iPhone is solid and less clunky than a phone with a creaky battery door hinge.
Or a battery door with loose or broken contacts that has to be taped on.
Or the phone that is dropped - phone, battery door, and battery fly in three different directions
Or the battery door that is firmly apart of the phone but extremely difficult to remove.

[8CoreWhore]

http://www.800cocaine.com/:lol:

[nagromme]

The iPhone is not perfect. Other phones have certain legitimate advantages.

What many forget (or pretend to) is that:

* No OTHER phone is perfect.

* The iPhone has its OWN advantages.

Thus, while many like to suggest that "avoid the iPhone" is the only rational choice, it's actually more complicated than that. It can actually make SENSE to choose an iPhone. And those who fear for HSBC's well-being need not worry: I don't think HSBC is taking such a decision lightly. They're probably even smart enough to know that the iPhone keeps getting updates--so they can wait-and-see what improvements come in the months ahead.

Whether they ultimately choose BlackBerry or iPhone, I see no cause yet to doubt that their reasons will be sensible.

[teckstud]

If it happens, it would add another high profile enterprise level firm who has deployed the iPhone.



"another high profile enterprise level firm"???
Names please- back up - thank you.

[GQB]

They really shouldn't rely on the iPhone for their business just yet. The software is still horrible. I'm getting tired of restoring my phone every other day so I'm hoping that I just received a defective phone and I'm heading to the bar tonight to get it replaced. I could never recommend the iPhone to a company that relies on their smartphones for business. If it were later on in the game when Apple hopefully fixes the bugs and instability... sure. But not now.

Purely out of curiosity, are you running blessed iPhone and apps, or are you running jailbroken apps?
I've never heard anything close to your description. May very well be a flawed unit.

[teckstud]

Until Apple offers an extend battery I do not believe that enterprise will be happy with the iPhone 3G. This is not a criticism, it's based upon experience.

Really -can't you see all the IS departments having to mail back iPhones to Apple to replace their worn down batteries?:lol:
Seriously, I mean those guys that depend on their crackberries for work are using them literally all day and night.

[dr_lha]

a keyboard, lol
LOL all you like (I doubt you are laughing out loud however), I know plenty of BB users who won't even consider an iPhone due to the lack of tactile keyboard. Apple may have to take those people seriously if it want to replace Blackberries.

[joe in miami]

Companies are starting to move beyond just email for the mobile user; not to browser-based apps, but to their own customized apps that use the Internet for information access. For that, the combination of a great UI, app development tools, and app deployment mechanism will be a huge advantage.

BINGO! That's it in a nutshell. Every enterprise, especially the larger ones, will be able to design its own iApp to suit its particular needs.

[teckstud]

LOL all you like (I doubt you are laughing out loud however), I know plenty of BB users who won't even consider an iPhone due to the lack of tactile keyboard. Apple may have to take those people seriously if it want to replace Blackberries.

It just occurred to me- if you're blind how do you use an iPhone? with a keyboard there is no problem
Won't that lack of a feature disciminate and violate ADA in the workplace? Is this one more strike against the iPhone?

[dr_lha]

It just occurred to me- if you're blind how do you use an iPhone? with a keyboard there is no problem
Won't that lack of a feature disciminate and violate ADA in the workplace? Is this one more strike against the iPhone?
Can blind people use a Blackberry? Being able to see the screen is pretty important when using a Blackberry, they don't have any accessibility features (such as speaking menu items) do they?

[Abster2core]

It just occurred to me- if you're blind how do you use an iPhone? with a keyboard there is no problem
Won't that lack of a feature disciminate and violate ADA in the workplace? Is this one more strike against the iPhone?

If one were to ask that to a blind person, I bet one would find out pretty quick that only a dumb person would be dumb enough to ask question in the first place.

[wbrasington]

It just occurred to me- if you're blind how do you use an iPhone? with a keyboard there is no problem
Won't that lack of a feature disciminate and violate ADA in the workplace? Is this one more strike against the iPhone?

It seems inside time is over.
Give the keyboard back to your mommy and go back outside to play.

[teckstud]

If one were to ask that to a blind person, I bet one would find out pretty quick that only a dumb person would be dumb enough to ask question in the first place.

That's not a dumb question but that's a dumb-assed reply.
How do you make a phone call with a smooth screen? Unless there are braille stickies for the iPhone - it won't do.
Is the voice recognition limited.

[teckstud]

It seems inside time is over.
Give the keyboard back to your mommy and go back outside to play.

Oh- you are just soo insulting.
Did I strike a nerve in you?

[cameronj]

It just occurred to me- if you're blind how do you use an iPhone? with a keyboard there is no problem
Won't that lack of a feature disciminate and violate ADA in the workplace? Is this one more strike against the iPhone?

I'd be QUITE impressed to see a blind person using a BB with 40 tiny keys on it.

[Daniel0418]

The iPhone is not perfect. Other phones have certain legitimate advantages.

What many forget, is that:

* No OTHER phone is perfect.

* The iPhone has its OWN advantages.

Thus, while many like to suggest that "avoid the iPhone" is the only rational choice, it's actually more complicated than that. It can actually make SENSE to choose an iPhone. And those who fear for HSBC's well-being need not worry: I don't think HSBC is taking such a decision lightly. They're probably even smart enough to know that the iPhone keeps getting updates--so they can wait-and-see what improvements come in the months ahead.

Whether they ultimately choose BlackBerry or iPhone, I see no cause yet to doubt that their reasons will be sensible.

I agree but. My only hope is this. That due to the mass size
Of this sale and if it's a success future business it will bring that maybe it will force apple to add the necessary features such as cut/paste and mms and unlock all possible Bluetooth features. If this happens I will be a very happy camper

[ajmas]

Having shared this tid-bit with a friend he suggested another alternative: they're just positioning to get a better deal from RIM. This is certainly plausible.

[wishchild]

"another high profile enterprise level firm"???
Names please- back up - thank you.

Fox Studio

[blazeoptimus]

The largest drawback to using the iPhone in this type of environment is the lack of Full data Encryption. Blackberry supports this, iPhone does not. Honestly without this feature, HSBC would be unwise to adopt the phone in any capacity. When you deal with large amounts of money, the last thing you want is bank data (anything from customer info to IT network info) stored in clear text. For the record, I work for a bank, and security is everything here. If you don't take it seriously, you might as well paint a target on yourself.

[BuzDots]

I'd be QUITE impressed to see a blind person using a BB with 40 tiny keys on it.

lol, Damn, and all this time I have been wondering how to get rid of my crappy Razr - think I'll sue 'cause it is not ADA compliant!!!!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[jawporta]

mmmm, I love the iphone but it's not ready for prime time. There's to many problems. I was lucky to get one for free, I love what it does but it's buggy, no removable battery, and the hardware goes. I'm on my 5th phone already. My wife has a blackberry and the thing just works. The iphone has a better screen but I'm always fighting with it.

[nagromme]

I agree but. My only hope is this. That due to the mass size
Of this sale and if it's a success future business it will bring that maybe it will force apple to add the necessary features such as cut/paste and mms and unlock all possible Bluetooth features. If this happens I will be a very happy camper

Those all seem inevitable in the end (unless AT&T has some issue with MMS that I can't comprehend). The question is when, and enterprise interest could indeed push some things along faster. Especially the first two. Apple's already commented (vaguely) about adding the BIG one I want: cut and paste.

(I'd also love tethering, but AT&T won't give it away for free and I won't pay what it costs!)

[Ecphorizer]

What kind of banking outfit needs a 10% IT force for crissakes? That sounds like the IT group ought to be a profit center somehow. Or is it that 1 tech supports only 10 people because they're stuck on Vista? I can imagine each tech starting out his workday by paying office visits to each of his ten clients. "OK, stick out your tongue...oh-oh, you've got a nasty virus there...let me reload the OS and call me in the morning..."

OK, so I'm stretching it but even if you consider that of the 30,000 tech support group half are management, that still leaves each true tech a client base of only 20 people. Sounds like a nice little fiefdom has been created and grown.

[Abster2core]

What kind of banking outfit needs a 10% IT force for crissakes? That sounds like the IT group ought to be a profit center somehow. Or is it that 1 tech supports only 10 people because they're stuck on Vista? I can imagine each tech starting out his workday by paying office visits to each of his ten clients. "OK, stick out your tongue...oh-oh, you've got a nasty virus there...let me reload the OS and call me in the morning..."

OK, so I'm stretching it but even if you consider that of the 30,000 tech support group half are management, that still leaves each true tech a client base of only 20 people. Sounds like a nice little fiefdom has been created and grown.

Perhaps a little due diligence would be in order before one sounds off would have been in order.

HSBC is an big bank. Extremely big. Its 330,000 employees are scattered in over 5,000 offices in nearly 80 countries around the world.

And looking at its portfolio, it is obvious that their technical team just doesn't look after a few computers and cell phones.

[kiwirob]

The largest drawback to using the iPhone in this type of environment is the lack of Full data Encryption. Blackberry supports this, iPhone does not. Honestly without this feature, HSBC would be unwise to adopt the phone in any capacity. When you deal with large amounts of money, the last thing you want is bank data (anything from customer info to IT network info) stored in clear text. For the record, I work for a bank, and security is everything here. If you don't take it seriously, you might as well paint a target on yourself.

Lack of full data encryption may not necessarily be a problem for enterprise users. With the movement towards greater use of cloud computing data doesn't need to reside on the iPhone at all. With a multi billion dollar IT budget HSBC could easily afford to develop custom iPhone Apps or even Web 2.0 apps in safari accessed over SSL. For full access to legacy systems they could VNC into a server profile until new iPhone front ends where built. For the record I used to work for a bank too, 6 years IBM System 370 Assembler programming, 3 years IBM CICS/Cobol/DB2, 3 years IBM CC/2 and Direct Tack/2.

A quick search of Google and it looks like HSBC is a big Lotus Notes user worldwide. So behind the scene it is quite obvious that IBM, with it's recently developed Lotus Notes for iPhone suite, is pushing iPhone into HSBC. IBM hates Microsoft even more than Apple does ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OS/2 ) and has thrown billions of dollars into Linux and other non-Microsoft technologies to break the stranglehold MS had on the desktop market. IBM still have a monolopy of the Big Iron used in virtually every bank in the world and have a lot of clout when it comes to computing directions used by the customers.

Banks and other enterprise users are probably not happy about the possibility that the CIA or other Canadian or US agencies could have computers installed at RIM's Network Operations Center (NOC) in Canada that receive a copy of EVERY SINGLE email sent via a Blackberry phone worldwide. Lotus Notes/iPhone solution is a true client server connection without a single external point of failure (or data snooping risk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4i7Xe6Ra5E ).

[sittingbl@yahoo.com]

:D HSBC is a mover and a shaker the bank for Gen X.

[kiwirob]

What kind of banking outfit needs a 10% IT force for crissakes? That sounds like the IT group ought to be a profit center somehow. Or is it that 1 tech supports only 10 people because they're stuck on Vista? I can imagine each tech starting out his workday by paying office visits to each of his ten clients. "OK, stick out your tongue...oh-oh, you've got a nasty virus there...let me reload the OS and call me in the morning..."

OK, so I'm stretching it but even if you consider that of the 30,000 tech support group half are management, that still leaves each true tech a client base of only 20 people. Sounds like a nice little fiefdom has been created and grown.

Most Big banks have huge numbers of programmers, business analysts, team leaders and middle management developing and maintaining probably 20-30 legacy computing systems written in languages like assembler and cobol on IBM mainframes. HSBC in it's growth purchased lots of banks around the world and absorbed all their staff / data centers into the parent company. Sometimes it's nearly imposable to move application data from one custom system to another. Conversion projects can have hundreds of staff and run for years to get all customer accounts on "system x" to "system y". So having 10% of a banks workforce working in IT is not that unrealistic at all.

[TenoBell]

LOL all you like (I doubt you are laughing out loud however), I know plenty of BB users who won't even consider an iPhone due to the lack of tactile keyboard. Apple may have to take those people seriously if it want to replace Blackberries.

Yes I know BB users who say this same thing. The irony is that none of them have ever used an iPhone.

Similar to Windows users who say they will never switch to Mac and have never used one.

[irnchriz]

Seems like a smart move to make. iPhone lets you use your existing exchange environment and will soon work with Lotus notes once IBM release their iPhone app. http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/08/07/ibm_expands_lotus_notes_mac_support_to_iphone_scre enshots.html

HSBC will be able to do away with Blackberry enterprise server which is a complete pile of shit.

As to battery life...

Rule of thumb. If you ain't browsing the web, switch 3G off (just turn it back on when you are surfing). No more battery problems.


I have the O2 £45 contract which includes 1200 minutes and I use every one of them. I have never had my iPhone die on me yet.

[nonstopdesign]

AI, y'all needs a spell checker!

[a_greer]

You can buy extended batteries from third parties today. Are you saying it must be Apple-branded?

The external batteries make the phone too big to fit in belt pouches, hat is a no go for BB types. External batteries must be removed before the phone can sync to the desktop, and did I mention that they are just not the right way to do a busines phone? but hey, lack of email search isn't holding these guys back, lack of unlocked-nes isnt stopping them, lack of proper one-place-for-everything device management isnt stopping them so they must be clueless.

[TenoBell]

The external batteries make the phone too big to fit in belt pouches, hat is a no go for BB types. External batteries must be removed before the phone can sync to the desktop, and did I mention that they are just not the right way to do a busines phone? but hey, lack of email search isn't holding these guys back, lack of unlocked-nes isnt stopping them, lack of proper one-place-for-everything device management isnt stopping them so they must be clueless.

The external battery isn't to be used all the time. Its mostly intended to be used between the time the internal battery runs low and the next time the user is able to charge.

[JimDreamworx]

... HSBC will be able to do away with Blackberry enterprise server which is a complete pile of shit...

What's wrong with something that can take almost half-an-hour to activate a new device?

I'm glad I'm not the only admin who has used BES and wondered how it was possible to screw up something which should be so simple so badly.

Not that ActiveSync does not have faults, but Exchange is a bit more straightforward here. This is where Microsoft got it right: control the whole widget, which is an email, calendaring, etc. server. Now if they could only hire back the programmers who put together Outlook 2001 and put Entourage out of its misery!

Edit:

That goes double for Lotus Notes: the complete widget. Forgot that this is a Bank we're talking about here.

[solipsism]

Really -can't you see all the IS departments having to mail back iPhones to Apple to replace their worn down batteries?
There is no need to do that. The iPhone 3G's battery can be changed easily with a small screwdriver. Something that all IT departments will have on hand.

It just occurred to me- if you're blind how do you use an iPhone? with a keyboard there is no problem
Won't that lack of a feature disciminate and violate ADA in the workplace? Is this one more strike against the iPhone?
And other phones are blind friendly? I don't recall any BB's with Braille keyboards. The iPhone isn't blind friendly, the iPod isn't deaf friendly, and no cellphone is phocomelia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phocomelia) freindly.

There are phones for the blind. They have no display, they use audible sounds to inform of your progress through the menu and they have Braille on the keys.

"another high profile enterprise level firm"???
Names please- back up - thank you.
Apple :D

Until Apple offers an extend battery I do not believe that enterprise will be happy with the iPhone 3G. This is not a criticism, it's based upon experience.
There was a time when companies would sell the phone with a much lighter and cheaper battery but then advertise that you could get a pack that would extended the life. The iPhone's battery for making calls and the mAh of the pack are much higher than other phones. Of course, this seems to be an issue with the iPhone because the multimedia, web browser, and 3rd-party apps are making it a device that is much more useful and thus drains the battery faster than these other devices that aren't as enjoyable to use.

LOL all you like (I doubt you are laughing out loud however), I know plenty of BB users who won't even consider an iPhone due to the lack of tactile keyboard. Apple may have to take those people seriously if it want to replace Blackberries.
It wasn't a serious consideration then why is RiM making the Thunder with no physical keyboard?

I just picked up one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Amstron-PP33-External-Universal-Battery/dp/B000U8F94Y
I figure it will be a great thing to have when I am on a trip or in an airport. It has enough juice to fully charge the iPhone twice, so between the phone itself and the battery, you can get three charges. Something to consider for people unhappy with the 3G battery life.
At 4400mAh it sould charge your iPhone about 3x. Have you used it yet? I don't see any info saying that it's compatible with the iPhone 3G. If it is, please let me know.

The largest drawback to using the iPhone in this type of environment is the lack of Full data Encryption. Blackberry supports this, iPhone does not. Honestly without this feature, HSBC would be unwise to adopt the phone in any capacity. When you deal with large amounts of money, the last thing you want is bank data (anything from customer info to IT network info) stored in clear text. For the record, I work for a bank, and security is everything here. If you don't take it seriously, you might as well paint a target on yourself.
Which aspects of the iPhone's Exchange is not encrypted?

Sounds like he's trying to negotiate his next order of Blackberries to me.
That is what I was thinking. It's certainly what I'd do if I wanted to get a hefty discount on future BB handsets and RiM's expensive enterprise HW and licensing fees.

The external batteries make the phone too big to fit in belt pouches, that is a no go for BB types. External batteries must be removed before the phone can sync to the desktop, and did I mention that they are just not the right way to do a busines phone?
1) The external batteries are designed to charge the internal battery by having a higher voltage (usually 5.0V) than the iPhone's 3.5V not to be used all the time.

2) If you are connecting to a computer for syncing there is no need to be using an external battery for charging as the ubiquitous USB2.0 will charge it as it syncs up.

[onceuponamac]

I love the iPhone -but I truly believe, as currently designed, it's a dud for "primary" corporate use... it's fine for secondary use. there is no cut and past function, no ability to invite attendees to meeting requests, no ability to search emails for email with specific content. If someone sends you an email in HTML - the iPhone ignores your "size of text settings" and you have to manually zoom in to read the tiny print and then manually scroll back and forth to read the email, because when you zoom it to read - it doesn't resize the text to fit within the window...

I frankly hope apple addresses all these issues - because I would very much like to use the iPhone as my corporate wireless solution - also as mentioned in a separate post - international 3g and edge connectivity (at least in Asia) is terrible.

[valanchan]

Entertaining for an Apple fan boy to see but hardly exciting for a slick piece of soft and hardware to eat into a mundane corporate market. How exciting is a calendar and diary?

All corporations consider new machines.

This is a hack selling a comment based off of a single question.

Free advertising for HSBC (see! did it myself)

[Bageljoey]

Dude, you're killing your post count with the multiquote...:p

Originally Posted by Mr Underhill
Sounds like he's trying to negotiate his next order of Blackberries to me.
That is what I was thinking. It's certainly what I'd do if I wanted to get a hefty discount on future BB handsets and RiM's expensive enterprise HW and licensing fees.



My first thought was "bargaining chip" as well. However, even if Apple doesn't get the order, the fact is that the iPhone gets good publicity out of it. If this story shows up in the business section of the paper tomorrow it is equivalent to many $$$ worth of advertising. If HSBC eventually decides not to switch I doubt it makes news...

Still, kiwirob gives me hope that they may have serious interest... That would be cool. :smokey:

To those of you who complain about the lack of x, y, and z features--rest assured that a large corporation like HSBC would not jump into this willy-nilly. It would take time for them to align their infrastructure, create the custom iApps they want and test them all. I am sure that before they went through that trouble they would have assurances from Apple that x, y, and z were coming (if they were really important to them) before the planned switch time. I seriously doubt that there would be a "what, it doesn't cut and paste?!?" moment after 300K units were purchased...

[British Expat]

Well as an HSBC employee currently using a Blackberry - I am very excited about the prospect of having an iPhone. Knowing HSBC though I can't see this happening very soon as they are naturally cautious regarding these type of decisions. (BTW - 10% of the workforce being in IT seems rather inflated!)

[cjlacz]

I love the iPhone -but I truly believe, as currently designed, it's a dud for "primary" corporate use... it's fine for secondary use. there is no cut and past function, no ability to invite attendees to meeting requests, no ability to search emails for email with specific content.

Yes, these are faults, but they can be easily resolved through a software update. The fact the iphone is mainly software (and easily update able) gives it an advantage. Some of these large corporations are probably working with apple and know what's coming down the pipe in future updates.

[melgross]

Do you really think that the likes of HSBC doesn't have the expertise in planning, vetting, coordinating, deploying, etc., communication devices such as the iphone to make their own decision?

Or are you guys so well above them that they have come here to listen to continually disparaging rhetoric from the same individuals over and over again?

I've been thinking the same thing.

All of the "power users" here have already made these decisions for their large companies, and are sharing.:wow:

[melgross]

The largest drawback to using the iPhone in this type of environment is the lack of Full data Encryption. Blackberry supports this, iPhone does not. Honestly without this feature, HSBC would be unwise to adopt the phone in any capacity. When you deal with large amounts of money, the last thing you want is bank data (anything from customer info to IT network info) stored in clear text. For the record, I work for a bank, and security is everything here. If you don't take it seriously, you might as well paint a target on yourself.

I'm curious. You are giving one of the worlds largest corporations advice, as are a few others here.

What qualifications do you have that would trump the director of IT for that company that has a $6 billion yearly IT budget, and 30,000 IT workers?

He is stating that they are LOOKING into it. No decision has been made.

Do you think they understand the issues, or do you think they are kids ogling it?

Do you think it's possible that they understand security issues, and can work out whatever they need to, should they decide to move to this?

[melgross]

What kind of banking outfit needs a 10% IT force for crissakes? That sounds like the IT group ought to be a profit center somehow. Or is it that 1 tech supports only 10 people because they're stuck on Vista? I can imagine each tech starting out his workday by paying office visits to each of his ten clients. "OK, stick out your tongue...oh-oh, you've got a nasty virus there...let me reload the OS and call me in the morning..."

OK, so I'm stretching it but even if you consider that of the 30,000 tech support group half are management, that still leaves each true tech a client base of only 20 people. Sounds like a nice little fiefdom has been created and grown.

Banks are some of the heaviest IT users. Their operations are very much focussed around IT. Citigroup, where my wife works, is similar.

[melgross]

AI, y'all needs a spell checker!

We all have one. It's the use of it that isn't always there. I can vouch for that for myself, sadly. And it doesn't always work.

Sometimes using Google for spellchecking is better.:lol:

[Constable Odo]

Does anyone have any idea how HSBC is going to manage that many iPhones? I tried to pose this question on another forum, but there didn't seem to be any concern about this type of transition.

The first hurdle was whether HSBC is willing to put iTunes on all of their computers in order to sync up each iPhone. If each person has iTunes on their computer, then I imagine IT wouldn't be able to control whether the person wanted to add games or any apps or media on their iPhone, which might be a security problem.

Secondly, if HSBC was to use the ad hoc method of managing iPhones, how difficult would it be to manage iPhones in blocks of 100 which is currently the limit for the ad hoc management method. So far there there isn't any scalable solution beyond 100.

I'm sure HSBC has a pilot program going, but making the leap from, say, 50 iPhones to 200,000 seems like it would be rather difficult unless Apple supplied the tools to manage much larger numbers of iPhones.

Am I wrong in thinking this might be a serious problem for the IT people, or is this something that is easily solved. I would appreciate some honest comments to these questions. I always seem to be called an Apple hater if I ask these sort of questions.

[melgross]

Does anyone have any idea how HSBC is going to manage that many iPhones? I tried to pose this question on another forum, but there didn't seem to be any concern about this type of transition.

The first hurdle was whether HSBC is willing to put iTunes on all of their computers in order to sync up each iPhone. If each person has iTunes on their computer, then I imagine IT wouldn't be able to control whether the person wanted to add games or any apps or media on their iPhone, which might be a security problem.

Secondly, if HSBC was to use the ad hoc method of managing iPhones, how difficult would it be to manage iPhones in blocks of 100 which is currently the limit for the ad hoc management method. So far there there isn't any scalable solution beyond 100.

I'm sure HSBC has a pilot program going, but making the leap from, say, 50 iPhones to 200,000 seems like it would be rather difficult unless Apple supplied the tools to manage much larger numbers of iPhones.

Am I wrong in thinking this might be a serious problem for the IT people, or is this something that is easily solved. I would appreciate some honest comments to these questions. I always seem to be called an Apple hater if I ask these sort of questions.

I would imagine that their networks could handle it. After all, they must have 300,000 desktops now. How do they manage those? Or all the phones they have now?

That's what they pay those 30,000 people to figure out.

[Haggar]

I would imagine that their networks could handle it. After all, they must have 300,000 desktops now. How do they manage those? Or all the phones they have now?

That's what they pay those 30,000 people to figure out.

Their Blackberries are most likely being managed wirelessly, and without putting any Blackberry desktop software on users' PCs. iPhone does not support over the air installation of custom enterprise applications. It seems like Apple is trying to find ways to push iTunes into enterprises even though it doesn't have to be that way.

[solipsism]

I doubt that they currently have iTunes on their 300,000 desktops. Their Blackberries are most likely being used without putting the Blackberry desktop software on users' computers. What if those 30,000 people want to set up iPhones to be completely free of iTunes? Since Apple currently does not support installing custom enterprise applications over the air, will IT have to manually install their applications by plugging in each user's iPhone to a computer with iTunes? Would the same apply to iPhone OS updates?

It seems like Apple is trying to find ways to push iTunes into enterprises even though it doesn't have to be that way.

The custom apps thing would be an issue, but ActiveSync can be done without using iTunes.

I am half expecting a specialised version of iTunes for businesses that does allow for thec exclusion of non-essential parts of iTunes for this very reason. Similar to what ATT has for activating iPhones.

Since the App Store app gets updates sent to it quite possible that Apple could allow its Enterprise version to maintain their own update server with the app(s) polling periodically (or getting updates pushed to them) when an update is added with a built in method for having it automatically downloaded and installed without further user interaction.

[emerge3d]

Despite the iPhone's ease of use/wonderful interface, until it has email/contacts/calender integration AND above all... proper security straight out of the box I find this very difficult to digest.

:???:

And it is not even April 1st!

[digitalclips]

They really shouldn't rely on the iPhone for their business just yet. The software is still horrible. I'm getting tired of restoring my phone every other day so I'm hoping that I just received a defective phone and I'm heading to the bar tonight to get it replaced. I could never recommend the iPhone to a company that relies on their smartphones for business. If it were later on in the game when Apple hopefully fixes the bugs and instability... sure. But not now.

You have a Lemon for sure. We had one like that and Apple shipped us a replacement one on loan with a return box so they could check ours out. Indeed it was a faulty iPhone and they sent us a new one with a return box for the loaner. Down time for us ... zero. New iPhone ... flawless.

[digitalclips]

Does anyone have any idea how HSBC is going to manage that many iPhones? I tried to pose this question on another forum, but there didn't seem to be any concern about this type of transition.

The first hurdle was whether HSBC is willing to put iTunes on all of their computers in order to sync up each iPhone. If each person has iTunes on their computer, then I imagine IT wouldn't be able to control whether the person wanted to add games or any apps or media on their iPhone, which might be a security problem.

Secondly, if HSBC was to use the ad hoc method of managing iPhones, how difficult would it be to manage iPhones in blocks of 100 which is currently the limit for the ad hoc management method. So far there there isn't any scalable solution beyond 100.

I'm sure HSBC has a pilot program going, but making the leap from, say, 50 iPhones to 200,000 seems like it would be rather difficult unless Apple supplied the tools to manage much larger numbers of iPhones.

Am I wrong in thinking this might be a serious problem for the IT people, or is this something that is easily solved. I would appreciate some honest comments to these questions. I always seem to be called an Apple hater if I ask these sort of questions.

I was also thinking Apple need a special version of iTunes for IT controlled institutions. A version that is slimmed down with only that which is needed or perhaps a version that has an admin and user version where features can be turned off and on by the network admin. Perhaps the very name is wrong too if this is version has no music store. iCenter or iControl maybe?

[rcha101]

if they can find them.

[digitalclips]

if they can find them.

Fear not. For sales potential like this Apple would not only open a new factory they'd offer to design a custom model I bet! ;)

[MacGregor]

mmmm, I love the iphone but it's not ready for prime time. There's to many problems. I was lucky to get one for free, I love what it does but it's buggy, no removable battery, and the hardware goes. I'm on my 5th phone already. My wife has a blackberry and the thing just works. The iphone has a better screen but I'm always fighting with it.

Wow, so you're the one that we are all subsidizing! The Genius Bar guys must really "like" you.
Maybe if you took care of your toys ...
;)

[MacGregor]

I'm sure this is partly IT head beginning to negotiate too, but someone in charge of 30,000 people in a multi-billion dollar company can't be merely playing games in the business media where a few points on the stock market has important repercussions. I'm sure he is serious and I wouldn't be surprised if he has already had high level talks with Apple about sharing engineers to fix the very problems many here have mentioned.

It's not like he is going to be getting up every morning to see if MobileMe is down again or if OmniFocus has been updated at the App Store. If I were Apple, I'd have a special wing at Cupertino full of HSBC and Apple engineers configuring secure, proprietary s/w. Why can't HSBC's own apps have internal encryption? I bet it takes one firmware upgrade (there would be two by the time HSBC bought their first iPhone) to get cut and paste.

Re: keyboards, I don't see why Apple doesn't just come up with its own keyboard peripheral anyway!! iPhones have been out long enough to show off the screen only functionality. Why not make an attachment the same size as the iPhone, that clips into the 32 pin port and runs a keyboard aligned to the iPhone screen in landscape mode? The keyboard would be ten times better than the BB pixie keys a it could close up to protect both screen and keyboard and you could take it off when traveling and are mostly in phone mode yourself.

[melgross]

Their Blackberries are most likely being managed wirelessly, and without putting any Blackberry desktop software on users' PCs. iPhone does not support over the air installation of custom enterprise applications. It seems like Apple is trying to find ways to push iTunes into enterprises even though it doesn't have to be that way.

It doesn't really matter how it's done, as long as it works well.

Besides, people have to remember that this is business ver 1.0 for Apple. The other business models were much worse in the beginning. Apple will improve this as well, and likely, if it doesn't prove to be sufficient, will make the required changes until it is.

After all, there were companies using the iPhone in its first incarnation, when it had almost no business features.

As these problems are software based, Apple can do what is necessary later for these current phones, just as they did now for the older models.

What other phone maker could ever say that?

[melgross]

I was also thinking Apple need a special version of iTunes for IT controlled institutions. A version that is slimmed down with only that which is needed or perhaps a version that has an admin and user version where features can be turned off and on by the network admin. Perhaps the very name is wrong too if this is version has no music store. iCenter or iControl maybe?

They did announce something like that for business and government. Some think it's not enough though. I'm pretty sure that Apple will be listening.

If HSBC ultimately tells Apple that they would buy 200,000 phones, with more later, but that the means to disseminate their apps isn't good enough, and Apple hears the same from other large and medium sized businesses and governments, I would imagine that that would be enough incentive for them to work out a way that would make these institutions happy. I can't see then being willing to give up what could be several million phone sales a year, as they've now shown that that non consumer market is important to them.

[cameronj]

At 4400mAh it sould charge your iPhone about 3x. Have you used it yet? I don't see any info saying that it's compatible with the iPhone 3G. If it is, please let me know.

It is.

[melgross]

It is.

What was this thing again? Now that we've got our phones, it suddenly becomes interesting.

[Jules]

Yeah, HSBC might have mentioned it over coffee one morning.

Must have been a boring day, as I'm sure that one got a few laughs.

iPhone.... spare me. TOY.

[digitalclips]

Yeah, HSBC might have mentioned it over coffee one morning.

Must have been a boring day, as I'm sure that one got a few laughs.

iPhone.... spare me. TOY.

Joke right? iPhone is a Mac in your pocket so obviously the furthest thing from a toy out there.

On the one hand you have so called smart phones which are being pushed beyond their designs to try to match even some iPhone abilities and on the other hand you have an iPhone barely scratching the surface of its capabilities yet. It's like comparing a complex cash register with a computer.

[melgross]

Yeah, HSBC might have mentioned it over coffee one morning.

Must have been a boring day, as I'm sure that one got a few laughs.

iPhone.... spare me. TOY.

I guess you didn't really pay attention to what was said in the article, right?

Nice try at a troll.