iPhone 3G reception issues to be relieved by software - report

[AppleInsider]

A small percentage of iPhone 3G users who say their phones are plagued by poor 3G network reception may soon see their connectivity problems rectified by a software update, a new report claims.

Although there has been no admission by Apple or its broadband chip suppliers that any such issues exist with the 3G technology included in the new iPhone, a report by Nomura analyst Richard Windsor earlier this week set off a chain reaction of media reports filled with speculation on the matter.

For instance, a report by Sweden's engineering magazine Ny Teknik, covered by the Associated Press last night, cited 'unnamed experts' as saying the 'most likely cause' was a defective adjustments between the iPhone 3G's antenna and an amplifier that captures very weak signals from the antenna.

For his part, Windsor speculated that an "immature" chipset solution from Infineon could be to blame for the sporadic issues experienced by users across multiple continents. Yet another theory from iSuppli analyst Francis Sideco fingered any of a number of parts, "from the phone's antenna and amplifier and the radio frequency transceiver to the baseband that processes the digital signal and sends it to the speaker or screen."

The most recent report on the problem arrived Thursday courtesy of BusinessWeek's Peter Burrows, who cited "two well-placed sources" as saying the reception issues are tied to the iPhone's Infineon chip and will be addressed via an upcoming software update -- likely iPhone Software v2.1 -- rather than through a more disruptive step, such as a product recall.

The problem is said to to be affecting between 2 percent to 3 percent of iPhone traffic, which compares with a dropped-call rate of around 1 percent for all traffic on AT&T's U.S. network. "This is a problem, but it's not a catastrophe," one of Burrows' sources is quoted as saying.

Another source said: "Apple programmed the Infineon chip to demand a more powerful 3G signal than the iPhone really requires. So if too many people try to make a call or go on the Internet in a given area, some of the devices will decide there's insufficient power and switch to the slower network—even if there is enough 3G bandwidth available."

BusinessWeek added that the problems have been isolated to high density areas such as Boston, the San Francisco Bay area, and several locales overseas. The reason the problems are just now manifesting is due to the increasing number of activations with each additional day the iPhone 3G is on the market, the report claims.

"Two sources say Apple will likely issue a software update by the end of September—if not by the end of this month—to resolve the issues," Burrows wrote. "Apple and Infineon are currently testing the fix, which will be included in a broader update of the iPhone's software."
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=4495)

[sapporobaby]

APPLE should have hired some guys from Nokia or SonyEricsson to help with the phones.

Lesson learned.

[Zendolphyn]

So how much 3G bandwidth is out there?

Haven't heard of this as a possible issue before - even if it's not really happening and the chip only thinks there is a bandwidth problem. So... could there be a day in the future where too many 3G phones exist for a network to handle connections effectively... or would technology stay ahead of that curve?

Just rambling - bored at lunch today.

[sapporobaby]

So how much 3G bandwidth is out there?

Haven't heard of this as a possible issue before - even if it's not really happening and the chip only thinks there is a bandwidth problem. So... could there be a day in the future where too many 3G phones exist for a network to handle connections effectively... or would technology stay ahead of that curve?

Just rambling - bored at lunch today.

In theory, you should never run out of bandwidth on an IN. It should start using QoS parameters to start disconnects, restarts, etc..... However, if you have a poor network planner or the operator tries to cut costs, you could theoretically start having bandwidth problems. Good question though.

P.S. Rambling is a good thing. :)

[melgross]

Nokia should have hired some guys from Nokia or SonyEricsson to help with the phones.

Lesson learned.

You want to re-write that?

[sapporobaby]

You want to re-write that?

Smart ass :)

Hey Melgross. :)

[Boogerman2000]

You want to re-write that?

:lol:

[nagromme]

Even if it's a small percentage of calls that have problems, a few annecdotes I've seen may suggest that those drops are concentrated on certain phones (or in certain areas): so most people get AT&Ts usual connection reliability, while a few get much worse. Of course, forum postings aren't evidence of how widespread the problem is, but I'd rather see Apple pay needless attention to a NON-issue (and address the few problem cases individually) than overlook a real problem!

Note, according to Daring Fireball, "Nomura analyst Richard Windsor," who started this media storm (and seems to be the source of fears that only an internal hardware change might help), is the same guy who started a blatantly fictitious report of hardware problems with the FIRST iPhone: an "increasing" wave of dead spots on Apple touch screens.

Like Windsor's 3G/Infineon report, his iPhone scare last year was packed with convincing-sounding technical and business details--which were entirely false. He said that iPhones use a chemical film on top of the glass that senses heat to detect touch, using technology from a Finnish company,and that this film breaks down several months after purchase. Awfully detailed and convincing! Better not buy an iPhone!

Of course, iPhones have NOTHING on top of the glass to break down, and don't use heat at all, and it takes no effort at all to uncover those facts. Windsor's FUD re touchscreens had to have been intentional--it's hard to imagine mere incompetence leading to such detailed false info.

See:
http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20070810/iphone-deadspot/

So, I take Windsor's latest claim with salt. A problem exists, at least for some small number. How many? Who knows--it's only natural to post when you have a problem and not when you don't. But fears that it needs a hardware change seem to come from Windsor, so that's the detail should not be taken too seriously without more evidence.

I hold out hope for a software fix, and will watch the issue with interest before I buy my 3G.

[Galley]

The download speeds of my original iPhone may suck, but you can always depend on consistently slow speeds. :lol:

[dancm2000]

My experience with my 3G tells me that the signal strength indicator (the bars) is more honest on the iPhone. More accurate.

I get one to two bars in my house on the iPhone. Now I used to get 5 bars in my house with my old POS standard mobile phone. Thing was, with my old phone, if I didnt have at least two consistent bars, the phone would not connect. If my 3g has any signal at all it works perfect. What do I care how many bars the At&t icon shows as long as it works fine and streams Pandora and Tuner just dandy?

I just think what constitutes 5 bars on the iPhone is a much stronger signal than what constitutes 5 bars on most other phones.

Now, of course, if you are At&t, and you are basing your ads on "more bars", then of course you want your phones to lie and go ahead and show max signal strength pretty much anytime there is any signal at all.

[afx114]

I was stuck in LAX Airport this past weekend for a couple hours and I had ZERO 3G. Edge it was. I would assume that of all places, LA International would have bad ass 3G coverage. Yeah, I know assume makes an ass out of u and me.

[mstone]

I get one to two bars in my house on the iPhone. Now I used to get 5 bars in my house with my old POS standard mobile phone.

I have noticed this as well. My initial thought was that since the 3G is a preference, it may connect to a 3G from a more distant tower if the closer tower only has 2.5G.

m

[anantksundaram]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby
Nokia should have hired some guys from Nokia or SonyEricsson to help with the phones.


You want to re-write that?

Yeah: Nokia should have hired some guys from Apple to help with touchscreen phones. 8-)

[riversky]

Ok, so if Apple is working on a software fix and it will work, wonderful!

My main issue with all of this is Apple's complete and utter silence on the matter. What would be the harm in acknowledging the issue and saying we will have a fix in short order? It wouldn't hurt and most likely would garner Apple more respect.

[sapporobaby]

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobaby
Nokia should have hired some guys from Nokia or SonyEricsson to help with the phones.




Yeah: Nokia should have hired some guys from Apple to help with touchscreen phones. 8-)

News flash, Apple did not invent touch screens. They were around long before Apple thought about it.

[solipsism]

If this is a simple software issue of changing the sensitivity and it is affecting 2-3% I would expect an update to 2.0.2 to come within the next couple weeks with 2.1 coming out in mid to late September.

Anyone here able to read the data from the Field Test app? *3001#12345#*



So how much 3G bandwidth is out there?

Haven't heard of this as a possible issue before - even if it's not really happening and the chip only thinks there is a bandwidth problem. So... could there be a day in the future where too many 3G phones exist for a network to handle connections effectively... or would technology stay ahead of that curve?

I wonder how many simple phones are being cannibalised by recent trend to smart/multimedia phones.. We know that about half of the new iPhones are new to AT&T and I know that most iPhone owners I know are new to the smartphone so it may not just be an issue with 3G handsets (as even simple phones can have 3G) but the potential for each iPhone using considerably more data bandwidth than other smartphones due it's advanced browser and exploding App Store. We do have data supporting that the few iPhones in existence compared to the entire cell market are trouncing the overall mobile browser stats.

[Flounder]

News flash, Apple did not invent touch screens. They were around long before Apple thought about it.


Newsflash, the OP never claimed Apple invented touch screens. They merely stated Nokia should ask Apple for help with them. That in no way requires Apple to have invented them, just that Apple has expertise in touch screens. Do you deny that Apple has expertise in this area?

That would have been like replying to your post with

"Newsflash, Nokia did not invent cell-phones. They were around long before Nokia thought about it."

Hell, maybe Nokia did invent the cell-phone. I have no idea. But you get the point I'm driving at?

[sapporobaby]

If this is a simple software issue of changing the sensitivity and it is affecting 2-3% I would expect an update to 2.0.2 to come within the next couple weeks with 2.1 coming out in mid to late September.

Anyone here able to read the data from the Field Test app? *3001#12345#*





I wonder how many simple phones are being cannibalised by recent trend to smart/multimedia phones.. We know that about half of the new iPhones are new to AT&T and I know that most iPhone owners I know are new to the smartphone so it may not just be an issue with 3G handsets (as even simple phones can have 3G) but the potential for each iPhone using considerably more data bandwidth than other smartphones due it's advanced browser and exploding App Store. We do have data supporting that the few iPhones in existence compared to the entire cell market are trouncing the overall mobile browser stats.


I think you need to look at the geography of the iPhones as well. Being here in FInland, I have nothing but perfect reception from my iPhone, as well as my N82. However in more densely packed areas, there could be network congestion. In mobile IN designed networks, they are supposed to start dropping data connections in favor of voice calls. Some of these disconnections sound as though the network is reaching saturation. This is an interesting problem that Apple has. I do wish they would not play their loyal customers for stupid and just say that there is a problem and we are working on it.

By the way solipsism, I have an interesting story for you that I got today from our Sonera rep. It is pretty funny. I will try to PM you later with it.

[walshbj]

If this was a widespread issue there'd be a lot more comments on this thread by now.

[sapporobaby]

Newsflash, the OP never claimed Apple invented touch screens. They merely stated Nokia should ask Apple for help with them. That in no way requires Apple to have invented them, just that Apple has expertise in touch screens. Do you deny that Apple has expertise in this area?

That would have been like replying to your post with

"Newsflash, Nokia did not invent cell-phones. They were around long before Nokia thought about it."

Hell, maybe Nokia did invent the cell-phone. I have no idea. But you get the point I'm driving at?

Didn't Apple buy the touch screens from someone rather than inventing and producing them? If this is the case Steve-o can pass a telephone number to Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo where they got the screens in the first place.

I have no idea if Apple has a touch screen expertise, they do know how to implement them in their devices quite well though. So in this particular context I would say that Apple knows how to implement them as well as Nokia, while Nokia knows how to make phones better than Apple.

Either way, I hope Apple releases something to let people know that it working on a fix.

[jnjnjn]

APPLE should have hired some guys from Nokia or SonyEricsson to help with the phones.

Lesson learned.

Utter nonsense. The problem has to do with the fine tuning of a new 3G chipset of Infineon and Apples software. No one has extensive experience with this chipset yet.

[thomasfxlt]

News flash, Apple did not invent touch screens. They were around long before Apple thought about it.

You're right....but Apple was the first company to competently use them.

[TenoBell]

Ok, so if Apple is working on a software fix and it will work, wonderful!

My main issue with all of this is Apple's complete and udder silence on the matter. What would be the harm in acknowledging the issue and saying we will have a fix in short order? It wouldn't hurt and most likely would garner Apple more respect.

Thats just the way Apple works. They largely work in secrecy until they launch a major new product or service.

[solipsism]

I have no idea if Apple has a touch screen expertise, they do know how to implement them in their devices quite well though.

In 2005 Apple bought a company called FingerWorks that had pioneered and patented many aspects to capacitance muti-touch displays.

Are there any other companies that use this tech yet?

[sdbryan]

News flash, Apple did not invent touch screens. They were around long before Apple thought about it.

I don't believe Apple invented multi-touch either but what matters is that they have built it into their API as a fundamentally new UI rather than treating a touchscreen as an awkwardly augmented mouse device. A new chapter in UI is being created which is the main reason the iPhone is so cool.

[TenoBell]

"Newsflash, Nokia did not invent cell-phones. They were around long before Nokia thought about it." Hell, maybe Nokia did invent the cell-phone. I have no idea. But you get the point I'm driving at?

Motorola was the first company to develop the mobile phone.

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/mobilefirst_5.jpg

Motorola DynaTAC 8000X

Didn't Apple buy the touch screens from someone rather than inventing and producing them?

Yes Apple bought a company that specialized in multi-touch screens. It is proprietary technology that no one else has access to.

[sapporobaby]

In 2005 Apple bought a company called FingerWorks that had pioneered and patented many aspects to capacitance muti-touch displays.

Are there any other companies that use this tech yet?

I am not sure of the composition of the TS displays on the N800, N810, or the SE P-series but they are all TS devices.

As I said, Apple didn't invent TS but they implemented very well in the iPhone and iPod Touch.

[sapporobaby]

Motorola was the first company to develop the mobile phone.

http://www.techfresh.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/mobilefirst_5.jpg

Motorola DynaTAC 8000X



Yes Apple bought a company that specialized in multi-touch screens. It is proprietary technology that no one else has access to.

Is that an AMPS phone or GSM? I had something similar. It was a Moto black banana looking thing that you could take the antenna off and screw it back on.

[cameronj]

Ok, so if Apple is working on a software fix and it will work, wonderful!

My main issue with all of this is Apple's complete and udder silence on the matter. What would be the harm in acknowledging the issue and saying we will have a fix in short order? It wouldn't hurt and most likely would garner Apple more respect.

Udder silence?

[solipsism]

I am not sure of the composition of the TS displays on the N800, N810, or the SE P-series but they are all TS devices.

As I said, Apple didn't invent TS but they implemented very well in the iPhone and iPod Touch.

The LG Dare and Samsung Instinct are iPhone-like devices that haptic touchscreen instead of a capacitance so I am thinking that no one has it but Apple.

[TenoBell]

Is that an AMPS phone or GSM? I had something similar. It was a Moto black banana looking thing that you could take the antenna off and screw it back on.

I'm sure it was AMPS. Bell Labs had been developing AMPS since the 60's. GSM was developed in the 80's. Wasn't in the US until the 90's.

[sapporobaby]

The LG Dare and Samsung Instinct are iPhone-like devices that haptic touchscreen instead of a capacitance so I am thinking that no one has it but Apple.

You could be right. If time permits, I might give a call to a friend of mine at Nokia to see if he can dig up what the screen is made of.

[cameronj]

If this was a widespread issue there'd be a lot more comments on this thread by now.

Heh... yeah, if this was a widespread issue you would have heard about it already, on this forum and others, in lots of posts. Oh wait, this has been going on for a couple weeks now.

[TenoBell]

The LG Dare and Samsung Instinct are iPhone-like devices that haptic touchscreen instead of a capacitance so I am thinking that no one has it but Apple.

Nah, Apple isn't going to allow any other company to have access to Fingerworks IP.

[sapporobaby]

I'm sure it was AMPS. Bell Labs had been developing AMPS since the 60's. I don't think GSM was developed until the 80's. Wasn't in the US until the 90's.

The first GSM network was launched in 1992, about 3 miles from where I live in Helsinki. The standards and specs were in development before that. Not sure on the dates, but it took them a few years to get everything right for the launch in 1992.

[solipsism]

I'm sure it was AMPS. Bell Labs had been developing AMPS since the 60's. I don't think GSM was developed until the 80's. Wasn't in the US until the 90's.

I think GSM only went commercial in the early 90's for everyone. But if we want to get pedantic we can date the cell phone to much much earlier.• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mobile_phones#Early_years

PS: It wasn't until early tis year that US cellular companies were no longer required to support AMPS. The US actually have more AMPS coverage still active than I would have thought.

[solipsism]

Nah, Apple isn't going to allow any other company to have access to Fingerworks IP.

I was thinking more along the lines of finding a competing method that doesn't infrimge on the patents or some method to invalid Apple's patent holdings.

[tundraboy]

Udder silence?

Why, what did you expect? Noisy udders?

[sapporobaby]

I think GSM only went commercial in the early 90's for everyone. But if we want to get pedantic we can date the cell phone to much much earlier.• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mobile_phones#Early_years

PS: It wasn't until early tis year that US cellular companies were no longer required to support AMPS. The US actually have more AMPS coverage still active than I would have thought.

No need to get pedantic. We can go with the 1992 date for the network launch. Finns are really proud of this so you can ask almost any man, woman or child and they will proudly tell you that in 1992 the first GSM network went hot. Then they tell you how Nokia (the company) stopped making toilet paper and rubber boots and stated making cell phones. Then they tell you that Nokia the town has nothing at all to do with Nokia the mobile phone giant. :)

[Flounder]

As I said, Apple didn't invent TS but they implemented very well in the iPhone and iPod Touch.

And that was the whole point of my comment. Inventing something is not a requirement, or even a guarantee of expertise. For instance, a person or company could invent something, and if others extensively refine / update while the originator does learns nothing new, than the originator may not be an expert any longer.

If a company is currently - as you have said - implementing a technology very well, that logically makes their expertise implied. A technology is nothing if it can't be used.

You seem to be limiting your definition of expertise solely to the ability to produce/manufacture something, which is exceedingly limited and nonsensical in my view.

[sapporobaby]

And that was the whole point of my comment. Inventing something is not a requirement, or even a guarantee of expertise. For instance, a person or company could invent something, and if others extensively refine / update while the originator does learns nothing new, than the originator may not be an expert any longer.

If a company is currently - as you have said - implementing a technology very well, that logically makes their expertise implied. A technology is nothing if it can't be used.

You seem to be limiting your definition of expertise solely to the ability to produce/manufacture something, which is exceedingly limited and nonsensical in my view.

My answer my have been narrow in scope, but I was just point out that I would have hired some guys who's core biz is making phones. This would give Apple a nice jump start in the phone biz.

[Foo2]

My answer my have been narrow in scope, but I was just point out that I would have hired some guys who's core biz is making phones. This would give Apple a nice jump start in the phone biz.

Hiring Motorola's head of cell phone division wasn't a good enough public example for you that Apple actually did what you suggested? Just because the company operates in secrecy doesn't mean it isn't doing the right things. After all, even as early as Macworld, January 2007, it already appeared Apple had a jump start.;)

[anantksundaram]

News flash, Apple did not invent touch screens. They were around long before Apple thought about it.

Looking at the thread above, I won't belabor the point that I think you are smart enough to have figured out the point of my post. (If you did not, I particularly recommend Flounder's comment above at 04.22 PM).
8-)

[8CoreWhore]

Until we hear it from the horses mouth, we can not yet say- it will be fixed with a software update.

[kotatsu]

I'd love Apple to fix the reception problems in a firmware update, but to be honest if they can do that I'd be surprised. It seemed to me to be more of an issue with the generally crappy nature of many country's 3G networks, and perhaps a hardware flaw with the iPhone.

I'm in the UK and where I work (which is a 3G area) I get 3 bars of signal outside, but inside I get at best 1 bar, but often no bars, at which point the phone drops back to 2G (which gets a 3 or 4 bar signal). There are a lot of areas in the UK with not even that comically bad level of 3G coverage though, including where I live, which despite being a decent sized town doesn't even have Edge, let alone 3G.

[melgross]

Heh... yeah, if this was a widespread issue you would have heard about it already, on this forum and others, in lots of posts. Oh wait, this has been going on for a couple weeks now.

We bought our three iPhones early this evening.

I can't say for my daughter, as she's holed up in her room with the phone and computer. My wife went to sleep after getting up at four this morning to get to the Apple store early so as to pick up the vouchers.

But, with my phone, I'm getting that problem. I will get five bars and the 3G symbol, and then it will drop to two bars, stay there for a time, and move to some other number, sometimes one, or back to five.

At times, it will remain on 3G even with one bar, but, at other times, it will say "E" when it's at two bars.

Very strange!

If it's the software chip problem, I hope Apple will get that fix that supposedly they and Infineon are in the middle of testing out soon, rather than wait for 2.1 as we have been hearing. This is a real problem. The first one I've encountered in the several hours I've been playing with the phone.

I don't see how this can be a cell tower problem as it happens so quickly.

Several good things though. The battery seems to charge from the usb very quickly, and the keyboard is much easier to type on than I would have thought. I don't have big hands though. It's a matter of understanding exactly where your finger is making a touch. It's often not where you think it is.

[solipsism]

But, with my phone, I'm getting that problem. I will get five bars and the 3G symbol, and then it will drop to two bars, stay there for a time, and move to some other number, sometimes one, or back to five.
I look forward to seeing what the results are from all three handsets at the same location.

[melgross]

I look forward to seeing what the results are from all three handsets at the same location.

Considering our schedules, It will probably be Saturday.:lol:

But, basically, the phone itself is real nice.

It took almost an hour to get them all though. They had to do each one separately. That was after almost an hour on line. But it went smoothly. We had our numbers moved over, and were told it would take up to 6 hours for us to be able to receive a phone call, though we could make them right away. We spent the extra to get Applecare for them. I know, people are going to rake me over the coals for that, but there is no insurance for these phones from AT&T (gee, I wonder why?). Even though Applecare doesn't cover theft or loss for obvious reasons, I feel as though it's worth it. We may even keep them for that long.:no::lol:

[JeffDM]

Hiring Motorola's head of cell phone division wasn't a good enough public example for you that Apple actually did what you suggested? Just because the company operates in secrecy doesn't mean it isn't doing the right things. After all, even as early as Macworld, January 2007, it already appeared Apple had a jump start.;)

That statement would be more comforting if Motorola wasn't a declining business making phones of pretty shaky quality in many respects. I realize that it might not have been at all due to this person, but still, not comforting.


I'd love Apple to fix the reception problems in a firmware update, but to be honest if they can do that I'd be surprised. It seemed to me to be more of an issue with the generally crappy nature of many country's 3G networks, and perhaps a hardware flaw with the iPhone.

I'm in the UK and where I work (which is a 3G area) I get 3 bars of signal outside, but inside I get at best 1 bar, but often no bars, at which point the phone drops back to 2G (which gets a 3 or 4 bar signal). There are a lot of areas in the UK with not even that comically bad level of 3G coverage though, including where I live, which despite being a decent sized town doesn't even have Edge, let alone 3G.

I think the hive mind is relatively sure that some iPhones clearly have problems that can't be explained away by network infrastructure. People have already said that they got better, more consistent performance using the same sim in a different brand of 3G phone, at the same location.

Personally, the description I've seen of the problem doesn't really seem to lend itself to a software fix. It sounds like a wiring or transmission line problem with the circuitry, I don't know how software can fix that. That's assuming the reports are at all correct, which could be totally misleading.

[8CoreWhore]

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/08/opinion-firmwar.html

[JeffDM]

It took almost an hour to get them all though. They had to do each one separately.

The process does seem to be very inefficient to say the least. I think the guy asked me to give him several different pieces of information a few times.

[justflybob]

Udder silence?

"Murrrrph"

That's a cow with Microsoft Speech Recognition Software installed. 8-)

[sapporobaby]

Hiring Motorola's head of cell phone division wasn't a good enough public example for you that Apple actually did what you suggested? Just because the company operates in secrecy doesn't mean it isn't doing the right things. After all, even as early as Macworld, January 2007, it already appeared Apple had a jump start.;)

Didn't know this Foo2. Now I do. Thanks for the info.

[sapporobaby]

We bought our three iPhones early this evening.

I can't say for my daughter, as she's holed up in her room with the phone and computer. My wife went to sleep after getting up at four this morning to get to the Apple store early so as to pick up the vouchers.

But, with my phone, I'm getting that problem. I will get five bars and the 3G symbol, and then it will drop to two bars, stay there for a time, and move to some other number, sometimes one, or back to five.

At times, it will remain on 3G even with one bar, but, at other times, it will say "E" when it's at two bars.

Very strange!

If it's the software chip problem, I hope Apple will get that fix that supposedly they and Infineon are in the middle of testing out soon, rather than wait for 2.1 as we have been hearing. This is a real problem. The first one I've encountered in the several hours I've been playing with the phone.

I don't see how this can be a cell tower problem as it happens so quickly.

Several good things though. The battery seems to charge from the usb very quickly, and the keyboard is much easier to type on than I would have thought. I don't have big hands though. It's a matter of understanding exactly where your finger is making a touch. It's often not where you think it is.


When this happens, are you stationary or moving. For the most part I rarely switch back to EDGE unless I am on a Metro or out near a lake. The 3G coverage is quite good here. In fact I did a test with my other phones (Nokia N82, and Nokia E61). They follow the iPhone almost to the letter when switching from network to network. My iPhone will jump to EDGE sooner but my Nokia's usually follow a few moments later. When the iPhone goes back to 3G, so do the Nokia's. In most cases it looks like a software tuning problem but then again, who knows. Hell, I even get my iPhone wanting to jump on the wifi networks half the time as well.

[melgross]

The process does seem to be very inefficient to say the least. I think the guy asked me to give him several different pieces of information a few times.

I didn't ask why each phone had to be done by itself, after the primary number was entered, but that did slow it down. Other than that, there were no problems. Boy, people on line constantly!

I got a very definite impression that Apple wasn't expecting this level of interest.

The 95 number per store average is likely true, possibly even low, though New York is a big city.

[melgross]

When this happens, are you stationary or moving. For the most part I rarely switch back to EDGE unless I am on a Metro or out near a lake. The 3G coverage is quite good here. In fact I did a test with my other phones (Nokia N82, and Nokia E61). They follow the iPhone almost to the letter when switching from network to network. My iPhone will jump to EDGE sooner but my Nokia's usually follow a few moments later. When the iPhone goes back to 3G, so do the Nokia's. In most cases it looks like a software tuning problem but then again, who knows. Hell, I even get my iPhone wanting to jump on the wifi networks half the time as well.

Stationary. I may not even move the phone at all. It may be on my desk.

A while ago, it went from two bars and 3G to five bars and Edge.

I cantt find any correlation between signal strength and network standard. The entire thing seems to be random.

I don't have WiFi here at home yet because I wired the house with 1Gb Ethernet, but I'll be doing it before too long. I'll see what happens with that.

[JeffDM]

Boy, people on line constantly!

I think you meant to say something here, I just don't know what. Could that be constantly complain, constantly miss the point, always on line, or...?

[TenoBell]

That statement would be more comforting if Motorola wasn't a declining business making phones of pretty shaky quality in many respects. I realize that it might not have been at all due to this person, but still, not comforting.

You know how corporate culture works. This might have been one of the guys warning his bosses that they were heading in the wrong direction, they didn't listen so he jumped a sinking ship.

[obi]

To ad some perspective.

I live in the Netherlands, 3G coverage is considered to be better over here then in the US.
But that doesn't make difference, even here we have numerous reports on 3G connections that drop,
or where the iphone indicates 'no service' while other phones in the same area do have 3G service.
So with even better coverage the same problems occur.

It may be a 'small' percentage of Iphones that are affected, but the owners of these phones are a very 'vocal' about their 3G problems.
Even 1% of 3 million is a considerable amount of people that have problems with their Iphone.

[mstone]

I will get five bars and the 3G symbol, and then it will drop to two bars, stay there for a time, and move to some other number, sometimes one, or back to five.

At times, it will remain on 3G even with one bar, but, at other times, it will say "E" when it's at two bars.

Very strange!

This is normal behavior. It works the same way with Sierra 3G Express card on the MBP as well as iPhone.

[monosound]

Well I don't know if my iPhones bad 3G connection is related to bad hardware or if it's just bad fine tuning that can be fixed by a software/firmware update but there is absolutely something wrong.

I travel a lot and where I usually get full 3G connections with other 3G phones I own the iPhone connection bars act like a roller coaster. I have tried this is with the same SIM card on three diffrent phones (LG KU990, Sony Ericsson 600m and Nokia N95) at home where I am just a couple of hundred meters from a celular tower.

Well what ever the problem is I hope they fix it somehow because in every other aspect the iPhone is very nice to use...

[melgross]

I think you meant to say something here, I just don't know what. Could that be constantly complain, constantly miss the point, always on line, or...?

Sorry! I was talking in the context of people always being on line at the Apple store for the iPhone. There were more people on line when we left than when we arrived. They cut off new arrivals for the iPhone at 6:00 pm there, but sell until 8:00 pm.

[melgross]

This is normal behavior. It works the same way with Sierra 3G Express card on the MBP as well as iPhone.

That seems odd for normal behavior. My Treo 700p on Sprint never did that, nor did my older Samsung i300, or i330. They would change, but not like this.

This can happen in a matter of a fraction of a second. I can have five bars of Edge, and then in a fraction later, it will become two bars of 3G, then change to some other random combination.

Oh, and my daughter's phone number still hasn't been transferred from Sprint, so I'm going to have to make a call. Don't know about my wife's phone yet.

[Davewrite]

In Aug 2007, Nomura claimed that the iPhone used 'Heat Sensitivity technology' and the screens would fail in 3 to six months.

Tech Trader Aug 10 2007 :
"research report from Nomura International analyst Richard
Windsor that raised questions about the durability of the
screens on the iPhone. He noted that there are reports that
some screens have developed “dead spots".

"According to Marketwatch, Windsor wrote in a note today
that the iPhone screen uses a chemical deposition process
to provide touch sensitivity based on heat. The
international property rights for this technology, he said,
were purchased from a bankrupt Finnish company that was
trying to make a similar device. But according to
Marketwatch, “that company encountered the
problem that with extensive use, the film would begin to
degrade and the screen would lose its sensitivity. Windsor
said the problem typically manifested itself within three to
six months."

_____
But of Course the iPhone does NOT use Heat Sensitivity. There is NO film. And of the millions of iPhones in use they hasn't been one "heat sensitivity" failure. Iphones use pressure capacitance technology.

For a 'research' firm like Nomura to make an error like this before when the information (diagrams and specs) of the iphone is easily available on the web shows the sloppy 'research' Nomura does and yet writers all over the net from Marketswatch, to Businessweek still quote them without MENTIONING THEIR PAST EPIC ERRORS is disturbing.

Nomura's Heat Sensitivity claim caused Apple stock to nosedive and now that apple is up, here is Nomura again.

Note also that NOMURA has been ACCUSED OF STOCK MANIPULATION by the Japanese Government.

New York Times:
"In the most serious accusations leveled in Japan's financial
scandals, the Nomura Securities Company, the world's
largest brokerage house, was charged today with violating
Japanese law by manipulating customers into a flurry of
buying that sent the price of a major stock soaring briefly
two years ago.

The charges were made in Parliament today by the Finance
Minister, Ryutaro Hashimoto. He effectively accused the
firm of running a scheme that left scores of customers with
heavy losses but benefited a select few -- including one of
Japan's top organized-crime bosses -- after the stock
collapsed. It was the first time in this country's recent
financial scandals that a brokerage house has been
charged formally with breaking the law."

[sammick]

Stationary. I may not even move the phone at all. It may be on my desk.

A while ago, it went from two bars and 3G to five bars and Edge.

I cantt find any correlation between signal strength and network standard. The entire thing seems to be random.

I don't have WiFi here at home yet because I wired the house with 1Gb Ethernet, but I'll be doing it before too long. I'll see what happens with that.

Isn't it possible that interference can affect the number of bars you have on the 3G phone even though it is stationary?---Like other radio signals, airplanes,microwaves, etc---

.....and if you were to disregard the bars and note only the reception itself---do you have any
problems??

Here in Seattle I have had no problems---even in parks surrounded by trees---away from the city itself.

[addabox]

Udder silence?

Moof!

[a_greer]

I think lot of folks are having these issues and dont even know it: they just chalked it up to ATTs crappy network. I know I did at first, as I had only been able to compare iphones to TMobile and Verizon phones so not really a comparison: but I finally got my mits on an ATT Windows Mobile 3g phone and the difference is astounding.

I was about to raise hell about it, br I read an artical like the one posted and realized that AAPL us on the case.

[sapporobaby]

I think lot of folks are having these issues and dont even know it: they just chalked it up to ATTs crappy network. I know I did at first, as I had only been able to compare iphones to TMobile and Verizon phones so not really a comparison: but I finally got my mits on an ATT Windows Mobile 3g phone and the difference is astounding.

I was about to raise hell about it, br I read an artical like the one posted and realized that AAPL us on the case.

You can rest assured that Apple will have a shit hemorrhage if it is successfully proven that the chips are the blame. Considering the fact that they did not release the phones to the network operators until the day before. No one does this. Nokia, SE, etc.... all release their phones for network testing. To think that Apple put a newly designed chip into one of their flagship products and did not properly field test it shows that Apple is either so full of itself or it believes its own hype. This is pure arrogance on their part. Maybe this will wake them up a bit. I guess it is so easy for them to remember that it is us customers that keep them in business, not the other way around. They need us more than we need them.

[sapporobaby]

In Aug 2007, Nomura claimed that the iPhone used 'Heat Sensitivity technology' and the screens would fail in 3 to six months.

Tech Trader Aug 10 2007 :
"research report from Nomura International analyst Richard
Windsor that raised questions about the durability of the
screens on the iPhone. He noted that there are reports that
some screens have developed “dead spots".

"According to Marketwatch, Windsor wrote in a note today
that the iPhone screen uses a chemical deposition process
to provide touch sensitivity based on heat. The
international property rights for this technology, he said,
were purchased from a bankrupt Finnish company that was
trying to make a similar device. But according to
Marketwatch, “that company encountered the
problem that with extensive use, the film would begin to
degrade and the screen would lose its sensitivity. Windsor
said the problem typically manifested itself within three to
six months."

_____
But of Course the iPhone does NOT use Heat Sensitivity. There is NO film. And of the millions of iPhones in use they hasn't been one "heat sensitivity" failure. Iphones use pressure capacitance technology.

For a 'research' firm like Nomura to make an error like this before when the information (diagrams and specs) of the iphone is easily available on the web shows the sloppy 'research' Nomura does and yet writers all over the net from Marketswatch, to Businessweek still quote them without MENTIONING THEIR PAST EPIC ERRORS is disturbing.

Nomura's Heat Sensitivity claim caused Apple stock to nosedive and now that apple is up, here is Nomura again.

Note also that NOMURA has been ACCUSED OF STOCK MANIPULATION by the Japanese Government.

New York Times:
"In the most serious accusations leveled in Japan's financial
scandals, the Nomura Securities Company, the world's
largest brokerage house, was charged today with violating
Japanese law by manipulating customers into a flurry of
buying that sent the price of a major stock soaring briefly
two years ago.

The charges were made in Parliament today by the Finance
Minister, Ryutaro Hashimoto. He effectively accused the
firm of running a scheme that left scores of customers with
heavy losses but benefited a select few -- including one of
Japan's top organized-crime bosses -- after the stock
collapsed. It was the first time in this country's recent
financial scandals that a brokerage house has been
charged formally with breaking the law."


This guy Richard Windsor seems like a serial idiot.

[melgross]

Isn't it possible that interference can affect the number of bars you have on the 3G phone even though it is stationary?---Like other radio signals, airplanes,microwaves, etc---

.....and if you were to disregard the bars and note only the reception itself---do you have any
problems??

Here in Seattle I have had no problems---even in parks surrounded by trees---away from the city itself.
I can't argue with that, as it's always possible.

A little while ago, I was playing a solitare game on my phone (Sol Free, great game of you want a solitare game without an entire bunch of others). The signal briefly went from several bars of Edge to "no service" and then back again. I've simply never had this with my Treo and Sprint, even though Sprint had poor coverage in some places.

As far as reception problems go, there are plenty when using internet services. Often, I won't get a page at all. It will keep trying to download with the wheel constantly turning. Then I'l get a "try later". This has happened with some of the biggest sites such as the NY Times MBL,Pandore Radio etc.

My daughters phone and my wife's phone have also experienced similar problems.

Yesterday, while going to a friends house in New Jersey, traveling in another friends car, coming from Forest Hills in NYC, I turned on Google maps.

Very interesting. The accuracy seems to be the same as his two GPS units (one is built-in, but he doesn't like it). As far as the car traveling on the maps went, it was in the exact same place as the car in his other units. Without turn by turn though, I couldn't really know if what I saw on the map was REALLY seen as accurate by the phone.

But, there seems to be a problem. When I'm stationary, the map fills the entire screen. But when in the car, most of the time, after the initialization of the location, the maps are only partial. So there may be a vertical map band on the screen, or some portion that is oddly shaped, while the rest of the screen shows a grey grid. The car is centered, as that's the location, so the grid moves, rather than the car. But the maps will move so that as we are moving, the car is on the grey grid instead. Then at odd intervals, a bit more map pops onto the screen. Very strange.

[mstone]

That seems odd for normal behavior. My Treo 700p on Sprint never did that, nor did my older Samsung i300, or i330. They would change, but not like this.

This can happen in a matter of a fraction of a second. I can have five bars of Edge, and then in a fraction later, it will become two bars of 3G, then change to some other random combination.

Oh, and my daughter's phone number still hasn't been transferred from Sprint, so I'm going to have to make a call. Don't know about my wife's phone yet.

Maybe it is just normal for AT&T. I just gained access to 3G recently and noticed that my laptop automatically found the 3G signal but exhibited the same irradict behavior as the iPhone, switching from 2.5G with strong bars to 3G with low bars.

[peter34]

Just wanted to add that Gotreception.com (http://www.gotreception.com) is a great resource for finding out where reception problems are most likely to occur.

[melgross]

Maybe it is just normal for AT&T. I just gained access to 3G recently and noticed that my laptop automatically found the 3G signal but exhibited the same irradict behavior as the iPhone, switching from 2.5G with strong bars to 3G with low bars.

One thing that occurred to me during the day Saturday, was that (as most people likely already understood:grumble:), is that it's possible that the number of bars for 3G don't correlate directly with the number of bars for Edge.

What I mean is that the preference for network lookup is that the phone first looks for a viable 3G signal, which it then shows in bars. If the 3G falls below usability, it then switches to the Edge, where it shows the number of bars for that. Of course, while the signal for 3G might be insufficient, the signal for Edge might be quite strong. So a switch from a one bar 3G to a 4 bar Edge is likely.

While I realized all along that it would look to 3G first, and switch to Edge if that didn't work, it just occurred to me why the number of bars appeared as they did.

That makes it a bit easier to understand why it looks the way it does.

But, still, the quick moving of the signal strength is disturbing. Some pages don't download at all. Sometimes signal strength stays low for long periods, then jumps up for a short while, then back down for quite a while, even though AT&T said that strength in my area of Forest Hills was strong (with two AT&T stores just blocks from each other here, one selling the iPhone (a company store) and one not (a franchise).

When it works, it's amazing! But when it doesn't, it's frustrating.

I'm just hoping that the problem is related to firmware for the chip which can be updated.

But, games on this thing are great. Crash Bandicoot is fantastic on this thing. My daughter, who has every game machine known to man from the past ten years, was skeptical as to the usefulness of the iPhone for games. Not anymore!

[melgross]

Just wanted to add that Gotreception.com (http://www.gotreception.com) is a great resource for finding out where reception problems are most likely to occur.

Very useful indeed! I've bookmarked it.

Good first post. Thanks.