Class action suit claims Apple deceived over iPhone 3G speeds

[AppleInsider]

A lawsuit filed on Tuesday by an Alabama woman alleges that Apple has touted doubled Internet speeds with iPhone 3G when a rash of connection problems have made those speeds seemingly impossible to reach.

In the 10-page complaint, Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original where the practical experience has fallen well short of the mark.

Always referring to the device as the "Defective iPhone 3G," Smith and her legal team assert that e-mail, text, and most other downloads were considerably slower than what Apple promised. This in no small part stemmed from the reliability of the connection: the device would connect to 3G less than a quarter of the time to 3G even in areas AT&T says should provide "excellent" coverage, according to the lawsuit.

The connection problem has also resulted in an "inordinate" number of dropped phone calls, the filing adds.

Smith is also certain she isn't alone and appears to rely on Internet reports as support for the class action nature of the suit. As there have been many complaints of slowdowns or outright connection problems with the phone, the complaint reads, the number of affected users is said to potentially run into the "tens of thousands." It's thus seen as more accurate and more comprehensive to represent all those iPhone owners in a single suit than to deal with individual cases.

To compensate for Apple's purportedly false advertising, Smith and those who may join her suit would receive damages and also order the Cupertino, Calif.-based company to either fix iPhones or replace them if necessary.

Apple has kept to its longstanding silence on legal matters and hasn't commented on the pioneering lawsuit, which is the first to tackle iPhone connection woes; however, Apple has confirmed that its recent iPhone 2.0.2 update addresses some of the problems.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=4517)

[iCarbon]

I'm sorry, but this is total crap. I understand that many people are frustrated with the 3G issues, but the fact of the matter is that Apple expressly stated that these speeds were faster over a 3G connection, and they are.

I just don't see how issues with connectivity that appear to be limited to <10% of users can be considered false advertising.

Maybe if the case were claiming defective products in a limited number of cases, and could prove that they were defective, it would be worth a damn.

My guess is that this is a bored lawyer and a stupid complainant.

[bigmc6000]

I'm sorry, but this is total crap. I understand that many people are frustrated with the 3G issues, but the fact of the matter is that Apple expressly stated that these speeds were faster over a 3G connection, and they are.

I just don't see how issues with connectivity that appear to be limited to <10% of users can be considered false advertising.

Maybe if the case were claiming defective products in a limited number of cases, and could prove that they were defective, it would be worth a damn.

My guess is that this is a bored lawyer and a stupid complainant.
Nah - it's a ploy by MS and RIM to try to get some negative press for the iPhone ;)

I'm with you tho - this seems like a bit of a paper-thin argument and a good lawyer (of which Apple has plenty) could defeat it. I wonder if the 2.0.2 update fixed it for her - now wouldn't that be funny - haha.

By the time this ever makes it to any real resolution Apple will have released another update that should fix the problem for all but maybe .5% of people at most.

Required Vista upgrades killed my audio card - I think I should file a class action suit...

[Foo2]

Smith is also certain she isn't alone and appears to rely on Internet reports as support for the class action nature of the suit.

Let's see Smith rely on my Internet report.:D

The iPhone 3G has worked very well for me. It's been reasonably reliable--more reliable than my HTC 8525 and Treo 650--and it's more than twice as fast as my original iPhone. Furthermore, when Apple advertises twice as fast, it doesn't say twice as fast all the time or everywhere. Nor does Apple say how they measure the speed. Such is the nature of advertising!

Jessica Smith: are you unhappy with your purchase? RETURN IT.

[bigmc6000]

Let's see Smith rely on my Internet report.:D

The iPhone 3G has worked very well for me. It's been reasonably reliable--more reliable than my HTC 8525 and Treo 650--and it's more than twice as fast as my original iPhone. Furthermore, when Apple advertises twice as fast, it doesn't say twice as fast all the time or everywhere. Nor does Apple say how they measure the speed. Such is the nature of advertising!

Jessica Smith: are you unhappy with your purchase? RETURN IT.
haha - I wish it were that simple (returning it). They'll undoubtedly throw something around about how Apple "violated her rights" or something as equally cliché.

[Xian Zhu Xuande]

3G on the iPhone, when you've got it, delivers 2x and much much more.

This woman is a venomous money sucker.

She's not thinking how she can get a better product, though.
She's just seeing $$$ in her eyes.

[Archipellago]

haha - I wish it were that simple (returning it). They'll undoubtedly throw something around about how Apple "violated her rights" or something as equally cliché.


there is no doubt that in a real world scenario the 3g iPhone is vastly inferior with actual 3g performance to comparison models from other companies.

Whether that is enough to win I don't know. If someone has upgraded due to the 3g aspect then I understand that they would feel disappointed.

win or lose giving this issue more publicity can only be a good thing...for all consumers.

[justflybob]

there is no doubt that in a real world scenario the 3g iPhone is vastly inferior with actual 3g performance to comparison models from other companies.

Whether that is enough to win I don't know. If someone has upgraded due to the 3g aspect then I understand that they would feel disappointed.

win or lose giving this issue more publicity can only be a good thing...for all consumers.

You were so quick to add your negative comments to the pile, I figure you must be using your iPhone 3G? :rolleyes:

[alfior73]

Let's see Smith rely on my Internet report.:D

The iPhone 3G has worked very well for me. It's been reasonably reliable--more reliable than my HTC 8525 and Treo 650--and it's more than twice as fast as my original iPhone. Furthermore, when Apple advertises twice as fast, it doesn't say twice as fast all the time or everywhere. Nor does Apple say how they measure the speed. Such is the nature of advertising!

Jessica Smith: are you unhappy with your purchase? RETURN IT.
:lol:
I agree return it if you are not happy, there is a return policy or do lawyers only write the small print but not read it?

Have you looked at all of AT&Ts'/cingulars' complaints? Maybe you should cause when they were my provider well before the iPhone came out or even smart phones for that matter I had dropped calls like there was no tomorrow. I believe it's cause cingular had the worse network and AT&T inherited that. Maybe Apple should drop their contract with AT&T and jump on over to verizon, their network is rock solid. I'm sure there would be a hellava lot less complaints and lawsuits for that matter.
Fight the lawsuit to the death Apple, don't let these idiots who don't know how to use technology take you down.

[Archipellago]

You were so quick to add your negative comments to the pile, I figure you must be using your iPhone 3G? :rolleyes:

how is the truth 'negative'..??

[sapporobaby]

there is no doubt that in a real world scenario the 3g iPhone is vastly inferior with actual 3g performance to comparison models from other companies.

Whether that is enough to win I don't know. If someone has upgraded due to the 3g aspect then I understand that they would feel disappointed.

win or lose giving this issue more publicity can only be a good thing...for all consumers.

Exactamundo. Right on the money.

I have two other 3G phones. Nokia N82 and Nokia E61. I will concede that the iPhone has a better browser, but if I go to the same web page with the iPhone (BBC, CNN, MSNBC), the Nokia's simply get there first. This is not a scientific test by any means but I bet her suit gets traction because her claims will for the most part be verifiable. The iPhone is not slow but it is not as fast as other 3G phones. Apple better shit a solution and fast.

[GregAlexander]

I just don't see how issues with connectivity that appear to be limited to <10% of users can be considered false advertising.

In fact... the lawsuit says it could have tens of thousands of people affected. With over a million phones sold, is she admitting that <1% may be affected?

I'd love to see Apple respond by saying "we will accept the return of your iPhone 3G and at our cost move you back to the original iPhone on your original contract". I think that would be entirely fair.

(ps. Our 3G at the office is terrible. Haven't tried 2.02 yet. We just want the phone to see that 3G is erratic and stay on 2G... though I realise that does take some phone intelligence not to continually say:

1. I'm a happy iPhone on 2G.
2. oooh I can see 3G I'll try to connect
3. Yay connected
4. can't seem to get a good signal
5. drop to 2G
6. go to 1.

I think that's what the iPhone is doing at the moment. We just need it to say "oooh I can see the office wifi, do not attempt 3G!". That wouldn't help other low-reception areas but would be a great boost for us.)

[sapporobaby]

:lol:
I agree return it if you are not happy, there is a return policy or do lawyers only write the small print but not read it?

Have you looked at all of AT&Ts'/cingulars' complaints? Maybe you should cause when they were my provider well before the iPhone came out or even smart phones for that matter I had dropped calls like there was no tomorrow. I believe it's cause cingular had the worse network and AT&T inherited that. Maybe Apple should drop their contract with AT&T and jump on over to verizon, their network is rock solid. I'm sure there would be a hellava lot less complaints and lawsuits for that matter.
Fight the lawsuit to the death Apple, don't let these idiots who don't know how to use technology take you down.

Rah, Rah, Sis-boom-bah. More cheerleading. How is expecting what you paid for not knowing how to use the technology? You don't seem to know what you are talking about but you still figured out how to post drivel. She has a valid point. The iPhone is not performing as advertised. Apple can make all of this go away by getting a fix out there fast. Many, many phone issues of a network nature can be fixed with software. Nokia did it with their N95. One patch and the battery life doubled.

Think before you post.

[GregAlexander]

if I go to the same web page with the iPhone (BBC, CNN, MSNBC), the Nokia's simply get there first. This is not a scientific test by any means but I bet her suit gets traction because her claims will for the most part be verifiable.

The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone. There's no lawsuit about it being faster or slower than Nokia etc.

[sapporobaby]

The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone. There's no lawsuit about it being faster or slower than Nokia etc.

Right but a 3G phone has to fall into certain performance parameters. If the iPhone fails then it is not performing as a 3G phone. There are network issues that come into play as well, but with all being equal, if the iPhone can not perform at the same level as another 3G phone, then the iPhone is failing. It is that simple.

[Archipellago]

The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone. There's no lawsuit about it being faster or slower than Nokia etc.

well she'll win then...surely?

also a breach of contract cannot force the affected to re-take the old rescinded contract.

a breach is a breach is a breach.

would be funny if 3g reception in the courthouse was supposedly good but 'poor' on iphone.!

/

[alfior73]

Rah, Rah, Sis-boom-bah. More cheerleading. How is expecting what you paid for not knowing how to use the technology? You don't seem to know what you are talking about but you still figured out how to post drivel. She has a valid point. The iPhone is not performing as advertised. Apple can make all of this go away by getting a fix out there fast. Many, many phone issues of a network nature can be fixed with software. Nokia did it with their N95. One patch and the battery life doubled.

Think before you post.

drival hahaha whatever keep believing everything that is advertised.

1. Take a look at her area network for performance, is everyone having issues in her area or just her?
I mean she could be sitting behind walls that interfere with reception(happens @ wal-mart)
2. Did she investigate all these things before buying the iPhone, nope only once she bought it.

It's called consumer spending.

Also I agree with you that Apple could improve on the technology but do you seriously have to start a lawsuit to get attention or become greedy over it?

[onceuponamac]

well she'll win then...surely?

also a breach of contract cannot force the affected to re-take the old rescinded contract.

a breach is a breach is a breach.

would be funny if 3g reception in the courthouse was supposedly good but 'poor' on iphone.!

/

here are the legal caveats for apple's 3g representations... you could drive a LARGE truck through these... we'll see - there may be a false advertising claim outside of a class action breach claim:

Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction 3G/EDGE-capable iPhone units and software and currently shipping EDGE-capable iPhone units and software. Testing was conducted by browsing to http://www.lonelyplanet.com and measured uncached page load performance. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Throughput depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, 3G/EDGE connectivity, feature configuration, usage, the Internet, and many other factors. Throughput tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.

[Abster2core]

In the 10-page complaint, Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original where the practical experience has fallen well short of the mark.

Apple promised no such thing. "Neither Apple nor AT&T has ever promised those rates to its iPhone subscribers. At the iPhone 3G’s introduction in June, Steve Jobs didn’t state the speed of the 2.5G EDGE standard that’s the fastest supported in the original iPhone—as fast as 200 Kbps with AT&T’s version—and then say that the iPhone 3G would be 3.5 to nearly 8 times faster. Instead, he showed a couple of examples, and talked about ranges of 2 to 3 times faster." Macworld http://www.macworld.com/article/135056/2008/08/3gspeed.html

And as Apple states in addtion, (http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/wireless.html), "Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction 3G/EDGE-capable iPhone units and software and currently shipping EDGE-capable iPhone units and software. Testing was conducted by browsing to http://www.lonelyplanet.com and measured uncached page load performance. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Throughput depends on the cellular network, location, signal strength, 3G/EDGE connectivity, feature configuration, usage, the Internet, and many other factors. Throughput tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary." their butt is well covered.

[John the Geek]

* Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions.

What is possible and what actually happens is not false advertisement.

=)

[bigmc6000]

Rah, Rah, Sis-boom-bah. More cheerleading. How is expecting what you paid for not knowing how to use the technology? You don't seem to know what you are talking about but you still figured out how to post drivel. She has a valid point. The iPhone is not performing as advertised. Apple can make all of this go away by getting a fix out there fast. Many, many phone issues of a network nature can be fixed with software. Nokia did it with their N95. One patch and the battery life doubled.

Think before you post.
Honestly, I don't think I've EVER had a product that performed as advertised and I'd challenge that none of you have either. Has your Mac ever crashed? Has an application ever froze on you? Have you ever had a non-maintainance related problem with your vehicle? Have those Dr. Sholls insoles made you start "gellin"? (Had to throw that one in there for comic relief :) ) That's advertising - they always advertise the best case scenario - if you're still thinking that every single thing you buy is going to be 100% error free then you don't understand the nature of manufacturing on the massive scale these companies are operating on.

[SpamSandwich]

I'm sure Apple's lawyers begged Steve not to say "twice as fast" in the advertising, but relented after a 10 hour screaming match.

[gYpSyNeRd]

Ridiculous & asinine behavior. How was AT&T left out from consideration in such an ill-intended, not so well thought "let's make some money" kind of an idea. No argument there may be issues in quality of service, but how does an Alabama Lawyer (presumably) and a citizen of same believe that somebody's trying to dupe them or that there's a chance in he!! they'll ever see a dime. Waste of energy better spent on getting an education by finding a college out of state somewhere.

Word from a phrase by Forrest Gump: AlaBAMA...

[NasserAE]

well she'll win then...surely?

also a breach of contract cannot force the affected to re-take the old rescinded contract.

a breach is a breach is a breach.

would be funny if 3g reception in the courthouse was supposedly good but 'poor' on iphone.!

/

Last time I checked my iPhone I actually got more than twice the speed with 3G vs Edge. Apple can argue that wireless reception is affected by many factors even for phones at the same location. Furthermore, Apple can also say that as with any product there are some defective units and they can offer her an exchange or a return. I doubt that this lawsuit will go to the end.

[onceuponamac]

I'm sure Apple's lawyers begged Steve not to say "twice as fast" in the advertising, but relented after a 10 hour screaming match.

there's little doubt in my mind your right.. by the way the marketing campaign is still "twice as fast, half the price"

[sapporobaby]

drival hahaha whatever keep believing everything that is advertised.

1. Take a look at her area network for performance, is everyone having issues in her area or just her?
I mean she could be sitting behind walls that interfere with reception(happens @ wal-mart)
2. Did she investigate all these things before buying the iPhone, nope only once she bought it.

It's called consumer spending.

Also I agree with you that Apple could improve on the technology but do you seriously have to start a lawsuit to get attention or become greedy over it?

This lawsuit was in the making the moment the calls started dropping in the volumes that they were being reported. Apple should have come out and screamed that they had things under control, but they didn't. They climbed into the bunker and this now bit them in the tukus (butt). She is not the problem here as much as Apple is. There is enough blame to go around but at the end of the day, Apple got paid for delivering a product that might be faulty. There is not escaping this fact.

[sapporobaby]

Honestly, I don't think I've EVER had a product that performed as advertised and I'd challenge that none of you have either. Has your Mac ever crashed? Has an application ever froze on you? Have you ever had a non-maintainance related problem with your vehicle? Have those Dr. Sholls insoles made you start "gellin"? (Had to throw that one in there for comic relief :) ) That's advertising - they always advertise the best case scenario - if you're still thinking that every single thing you buy is going to be 100% error free then you don't understand the nature of manufacturing on the massive scale these companies are operating on.

Oh I agree with you 10000 Blazillion of your earth percents, but we are getting into the weeds here. She is using generalities and experts to exploit these generalities (and they will) to try and prove that Apple mislead.

[sapporobaby]

Last time I checked my iPhone I actually got more than twice the speed with 3G vs Edge. Apple can argue that wireless reception is effected by many factors even for phones at the same location. Furthermore, Apple can also say that as with any product there are some defective units and they can offer her an exchange or a return. I doubt that this lawsuit will go to the end.

You could have a point but, it is about perception now. Daily, the iPhone is viewed as a "flawed" product. Each hesitation of a sale or non-sale is lost money in Steve-o's pocket. This is about more than just broken phones. Apple as a company is on trial (not yet) to the public eye.

[GregAlexander]

well she'll win then...surely?

Only if she can show that
1. Apple advertised it was 2 times faster
2. This was false.

Determining if it was false - have to look at the research done to make that claim. If the research was good then what more could Apple do? Also the amount of people in real-world situations who DON'T get that speed increase would play some part (and I'd say that <1% not getting the boost wouldn't be enough).

We don't get Edge on our GSM network, so can't comment on speed change. 3G is certainly about 5-10 times faster than GPRS. In my office we get flakey 3G (and we are in a 3G area) so maybe we are considered part of that <1% who are not getting double speed (when in the office)?

[penchanted]

Right but a 3G phone has to fall into certain performance parameters. If the iPhone fails then it is not performing as a 3G phone. There are network issues that come into play as well, but with all being equal, if the iPhone can not perform at the same level as another 3G phone, then the iPhone is failing. It is that simple.
That's not quite true. If the iPhone meets the performance standards but does "not perform at the same level as another 3G phone", it is simply not the best-performing phone. That hardly means it is failing.

[nasasimo]

I can't believe it! I hope she is going to lodge complaints for every other device manufacturer since she is bitching about Apple. All the other devices I have had aren't perfect either! Move on, and stop wasting our time with frivolous claims!

[GregAlexander]

That's not quite true. If the iPhone meets the performance standards but does "not perform at the same level as another 3G phone", it is simply not the best-performing phone. That hardly means it is failing.

Yeah.
If you bought a V6 car which didn't perform as well as another V6, you couldn't really say it was failing and sue.

[piot]

This lawsuit was in the making the moment the calls started dropping ........

Did you read the original post?

"Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original"

This woman is complaining about Apple's advertising. She believes that the "Twice as fast. Half the price" headline is misleading. I must have missed the ads where Apple promised that calls would "never be dropped". And the one that claimed that "3G never drops to 2G".

[onceuponamac]

Yeah.
If you bought a V6 car which didn't perform as well as another V6, you couldn't really say it was failing and sue.

no - but depending on where you resided, for instance in the US, but again depending on what state - you might be able to get a new car or get your money back if the failing car could be defined as a "lemon" under your applicable state's lemon law....

[sapporobaby]

That's not quite true. If the iPhone meets the performance standards but does "not perform at the same level as another 3G phone", it is simply not the best-performing phone. That hardly means it is failing.

Okay so performing substandard but still performing is a passing grade, but what if these performance parameters are not what Apple advertised? Then there is a problem. I would like to see the technical data on the performance. I think the fact that Apple finally came out and admitted there was a problem was what people (this lady) was waiting for. Apple admitted a problem in their phone.

[sapporobaby]

Did you read the original post?

"Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original"

This woman is complaining about Apple's advertising. She believes that the "Twice as fast. Half the price" headline is misleading. I must have missed the ads where Apple promised that calls would "never be dropped". And the one that claimed that "3G never drops to 2G".

Right. I am talking about a problem AT ALL with the iPhone. Dropped calls, battery life, doesn't make coffee anymore, etc.... People were waiting for Apple to admit something was wrong and BLAM, out come the lawsuits. Wanna bet there will be more coming in the next few days?

[GregAlexander]

no - but depending on where you resided, for instance in the US, but again depending on what state - you might be able to get a new car or get your money back if the failing car could be defined as a "lemon" under your applicable state's lemon law....

Is this related to what she's claiming with the "twice as fast" thing? Or is she suing for false advertising, as well as a lemon? I thought the lemon law referred to a specific car, rather than "all of this make/model".

Anyway - if the lemon law does relate to her lawsuit, is it anything to do with my comment? Being slower than a Nokia is not grounds to complain about the iPhone, that's all I said.

ps.
I'd love to see an unbiased report on all cell phones on all networks. My nokia drops more than 1 in 10 calls but I have no idea if my end dropped or their end dropped, etc. God... to get some USEFUL performance benchmarks...

[Zendolphyn]

I wonder what her lawyers think is the $$ value for the pain and suffering of her faster (but slower) iPhone 3G speeds?

$20k? 6 figures?

Can't wait to hear this one...

[appleinsider999]

I know that the phone plays a big roll in 3G connection, however, this 3G service is PROVIDED by AT&T not Apple. Now going off of that AT&T 3G connection are different all over the US. No two cites have the same 3G connection speed. For example, Chicago, New York, LA, big important cities to AT&T like those will have and do have a faster 3G connection than I do in Minneapolis. That is all AT&T. Apple has no control over this. Also, I love how she is using the internet as her hard facts and completely believing what AT&T has told her about 3G connection. Do you really think AT&T would tell you the truth about real connection speeds for their 3G network...ummm no.

Well Mrs. Smith I wish you the best, but I'm sure Apple gets plenty of pointless lawsuits sent to them every week and yours is no different than the rest. Might as well stop now before you receive a cease and desist letter from Apples army of amazing lawyers. :)

[sapporobaby]

I wonder what her lawyers think is the $$ value for the pain and suffering of her faster (but slower) iPhone 3G speeds?

$20k? 6 figures?

Can't wait to hear this one...

Personally, I would settle for a new phone.

[DeadBeat]

Whether the fault lies with Apple (Faulty Phone) or AT&T (Faulty network), THERE IS a big problem with the iPhone & reception!
I am now on my 3rd iPhone 3G in Los Angeles & the reception has been the same on all 3 phones ~ HORRIBLE!.
The 2.0.2 actually made my reception worse.
I don't care who's fault it is! All i know is somebody did not do there home work & released these prematurely!
Apple or AT&T or Both need to get there sh*t together & make this thing work! PERIOD!
:mad:
:no:

[sapporobaby]

I know that the phone plays a big roll in 3G connection, however, this 3G service is PROVIDED by AT&T not Apple. Now going off of that AT&T 3G connection are different all over the US. No two cites have the same 3G connection speed. For example, Chicago, New York, LA, big important cities to AT&T like those will have and do have a faster 3G connection than I do in Minneapolis. That is all AT&T. Apple has no control over this. Also, I love how she is using the internet as her hard facts and completely believing what AT&T has told her about 3G connection. Do you really think AT&T would tell you the truth about real connection speeds for their 3G network...ummm no.

Well Mrs. Smith I wish you the best, but I'm sure Apple gets plenty of pointless lawsuits sent to them every week and yours is no different than the rest. Might as well stop now before you receive a cease and desist letter from Apples army of amazing lawyers. :)

She will get traction from this simply because for every lawyer and expert Apple has, there will be others that want to take a shot. As this is quasi-exact science there is plenty wiggle from for interpretation of what is right and wrong.

[solipsism]

Only if she can show that
1. Apple advertised it was 2 times faster
2. This was false.

Determining if it was false - have to look at the research done to make that claim. If the research was good then what more could Apple do? Also the amount of people in real-world situations who DON'T get that speed increase would play some part (and I'd say that <1% not getting the boost wouldn't be enough).

We don't get Edge on our GSM network, so can't comment on speed change. 3G is certainly about 5-10 times faster than GPRS. In my office we get flakey 3G (and we are in a 3G area) so maybe we are considered part of that <1% who are not getting double speed (when in the office)?

But did Apple qualify the speed with "up to" or some other term showing this was possible but not guaranteed? Besides that, the speed of the network has no baring outside of the iPhone which is technically capable of 7.2Mbps with the Infineon HSDPA chips that are reportedly being used. At least Apple is advertising that theoretical top speeds of the chips like every other manufacturers' spec sheets. Apple can't be held responsible if AT&T doesn't have any 3G coverage or as fast as advertised 3G coverage in her area.

[CREB]

But did Apple qualify the speed with "up to" or some other term showing this was possible but not guaranteed. But the speed of the network has no baring outside of the iPhone. Apple can't be held responsible if AT&T doesn't have coverage or fast coverage in her area. The Infineon HSDPA chips are capable of 7.2Mbps. At least Apple is advertising that theoretical top speeds of the chips like every other manufacturers' spec sheets.
This is EXACTLY correct! My son works for AT&T and what customers DO NOT understand is that listed speeds are NOT guaranteed, and speed thereof and less than is the standard for ALL bloody providers. Apple has not in any way mislead anyone.

Having started with the beloved Motorola brick it astounds me how ignorant people are nowadays who use mobile phones.

[penchanted]

Okay so performing substandard but still performing is a passing grade, but what if these performance parameters are not what Apple advertised? Then there is a problem. I would like to see the technical data on the performance. I think the fact that Apple finally came out and admitted there was a problem was what people (this lady) was waiting for. Apple admitted a problem in their phone.
I agree that there is a problem which Apple needs to address. And Apple has issued two updates to the firmware and Jobs promised yesterday that a further fix would be coming in September. Of course, the plaintiff and her attorneys (and, no doubt, other) had no way of knowing Apple's future plans because Apple has been silent. On the other hand, I can see where Apple's speedier acknowledgement of a problem would have seen countless more suits already filed.

As is the case in all lawsuits, the details matter. For instance, Apple can reasonably argue that the claim that the iPhone 3G is "twice as fast, half the price" is factually correct: the hardware and software are designed to operate at least at twice the EDGE speeds and in many cases do, and the price of the 3G handset is, in fact, half that of the original version. Apple can also reasonably argue that her "expectations" are a QOS issue which needs to be addressed by ATT. Mind you, nothing I have said exonerates Apple or the iPhone 3G and if this suit causes Apple to more quickly address the issues, great.

[sapporobaby]

This is EXACTLY correct! My son works for AT&T and what customers DO NOT understand is that listed speeds are NOT guaranteed, and speed thereof and less than is the standard for ALL bloody providers. Apple has not in any way mislead anyone.

Having started with the beloved Motorola brick it astounds me how ignorant people are nowadays who use mobile phones.

This is correct in that Sonera offers 3G speeds. However, if you are willing to pay more you can get a guaranteed max, but the caveat is that it has to be in a metro area with blanket 3G coverage. If I request and pay for a higher speed and am in a metro area with blanket coverage and the iPhone does not deliver then, well yes Apple is "probably" libel as the phone is the problem, not the network.

As for ignorance with cell phones, but in many cases the US is lagging behind the rest of the world.

[sapporobaby]

I agree that there is a problem which Apple needs to address. And Apple has issued two updates to the firmware and Jobs promised yesterday that a further fix would be coming in September. Of course, the plaintiff and her attorneys (and, no doubt, other) had no way of knowing Apple's future plans because they have been silent. On the other hand, I can see where Apple's speedier acknowledgement of a problem would have seen countless more suits already filed.

As is the case in all lawsuits, the details matter. For instance, Apple can reasonably argue that the claim that the iPhone 3G is "twice as fast, half the price" is factually correct: the hardware and software are designed to operate at least at twice the EDGE speeds and in many cases do, and the price of the 3G handset is, in fact, half that of the original version. Apple can also reasonably argue that her "expectations" are a QOS issue which needs to be addressed by ATT. Mind you, nothing I have said exonerates Apple or the iPhone 3G and if this suit causes Apple to more quickly address the issues, great.


For sure it will be interesting. I have popcorn on hand. This will be must see TV. :)

[CREB]

As for ignorance with cell phones, but in many cases the US is lagging behind the rest of the world.

Agreed.

[appleinsider999]

Personally, I would settle for a new phone.

But if the problem is not with the phone but with your location and AT&T 3G speeds in that area a new phone would not solve the issue.

[penchanted]

For sure it will be interesting. I have popcorn on hand. This will be must see TV. :)
More like must avoid TV. I can only imagine the boring minutia that these kinds of suits entail.

[sapporobaby]

But if the problem is not with the phone but with your location and AT&T 3G speeds in that area a new phone would not solve the issue.

Sorry my friend. I live in Finland at the moment. The best networks and services in the world. :)

To be fair, for the most part my iPhone is okay. I think my Nokia's are faster but then again to be truthful I do not care. I have unlimited (really no limits or caps or fine print) data for less than 25 dollars, so if it takes a bit longer to get the page it just does. I don't pay for it anyway.

However if I did pay and it was not right because the networks here are pretty darn good, then Apple would have to pony up a phone or some cash.

[sapporobaby]

More like must avoid TV. I can only imagine the boring minutia that these kinds of suits entail.

I'm just here for the entertainment value. I hope some performance data gets released.

[mjtomlin]

Radio signals vary from location to location and from device to device. You can have to two devices using the same network and device A will have a stronger signal than Device B. You can take those same two devices to another location and the opposite will be true. No one can guarantee a strong radio signal everywhere. It is in fact impossible. You can't even guarantee signal strength over a physical wire connection.

This lawsuit has no merit and no legs to stand on.

[jmnikricket]

Just for kicks I headed over to Wired.com's iphone 3g speeds site (http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/08/iphone-global.html) to check out Alabama. The reported download speeds for Birmingham show 3g as being ~6x faster than EDGE, all being faster than 1000 kbps. Of course no one who is having problems with their phone is likely to bother participating.

I'm no lawyer so I'm not really sure I understand her claim. How does she expect to get money out of this? Will she claim her inability to surf the internet twice as fast as the original iPhone caused her emotional distress or loss in productivity? I don't see how she could be awarded any more than the cost of the phone. I bought some stick-on wall hangers last week and they didn't stick to my wall at all. False advertising? Call me crazy, but instead of talking to a lawyer about a potential lawsuit, I returned them to the store for my money...

Also, for the record, based on the vague wording of the article and current sales estimates, the affected percentage could be anywhere from 0.2% to 3.0% of owners.

[sapporobaby]

In the 10-page complaint, Jessica Smith of Birmingham asserts that Apple's marketing campaign is a breach of express warranty as it promises Internet access "twice as fast" as with the original where the practical experience has fallen well short of the mark.

The words "practical experience" might be what the case hinges on. In my opinion "practical" implies nothing out of the ordinary, just day to day usage. If she can prove that her practical, day to day, usage was affected and not what Apple promised she might win.

[solipsism]

Apple has it listed in black and white.

* Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers.

[city]

I think that I have a valid legal claim too because my new iPhone is more then twice as fast as my old one-not exactly "twice as fast"

[penchanted]

I'm no lawyer so I'm not really sure I understand her claim. How does she expect to get money out of this? Will she claim her inability to surf the internet twice as fast as the original iPhone caused her emotional distress or loss in productivity? I don't see how she could be awarded any more than the cost of the phone....
The economic injury is the part of the suit that seems to be overreaching to me. I can understand the monetary damage claims for the cost of the handset and, possibly, ATT service. Then again, I am no lawyer.

[bdkennedy1]

Well you know what? I'm with her.

I've had my iPhone 3G for a month. I live in the DFW are where anyone I know with a 3G phone has all their bars. 90% of the time, I have 1 bar or it drops down to EDGE. I did not buy a 3G iPhone so it could run on EDGE most of the time.

Because the 3G signal is so low, it takes forever to load a web page, or use GPS. Version 2.0.2 didn't solve the problem, so something has to be done.

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

[solipsism]

Well you know what? I'm with her.

I've had my iPhone 3G for a month. I live in the DFW are where anyone I know with a 3G phone has all their bars. 90% of the time, I have 1 bar or it drops down to EDGE. I did not buy a 3G iPhone so it could run on EDGE most of the time.

Because the 3G signal is so low, it takes forever to load a web page, or use GPS. Version 2.0.2 didn't solve the problem, so something has to be done.

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

1) When did you buy it? Are you still within the 30 day return policy?

2) You say "everyone with 3G phone has all their bars" but you don't say if they are all on AT&T or if they are on Sprint or Verizon. This makes a big difference in determining where the problem lays.

3) You don't state or imply that this just started with one of the updates so I have to assume this has been an issue from the start so, assuming you answered no in #1, why didn't you get your money if you thought the device or service was so bad?

[penchanted]

Well you know what? I'm with her.

I've had my iPhone 3G for a month. I live in the DFW are where anyone I know with a 3G phone has all their bars. 90% of the time, I have 1 bar or it drops down to EDGE. I did not buy a 3G iPhone so it could run on EDGE most of the time.

Because the 3G signal is so low, it takes forever to load a web page, or use GPS. Version 2.0.2 didn't solve the problem, so something has to be done.

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.
Have you contacted Apple? ATT? Visited an Apple Store?

[TenoBell]

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

I can understand. Apple has likely been tracking down the problems and working on a fix.

What does a lawsuit do to help the situation?

[physguy]

Exactamundo. Right on the money.

I have two other 3G phones. Nokia N82 and Nokia E61. I will concede that the iPhone has a better browser, but if I go to the same web page with the iPhone (BBC, CNN, MSNBC), the Nokia's simply get there first. This is not a scientific test by any means but I bet her suit gets traction because her claims will for the most part be verifiable. The iPhone is not slow but it is not as fast as other 3G phones. Apple better shit a solution and fast.

How is any of the relevant to the claim or the article. Are the N82 and E61 ONLY 2x faster than the iPhone 1G? Therefore the claim is valid? These types of comments are so out there that they lose credibility instantly. iPhone may, or may not, be worse that other 3G phone right now that is is totally irrelevant to the issue being discussed.

[sapporobaby]

I can understand. Apple has likely been tracking down the problems and working on a fix.

What does a lawsuit do to help the situation?

It would impose a penalty for selling a defective product. I would have thought it was obvious by now.

[sapporobaby]

How is any of the relevant to the claim or the article. Are the N82 and E61 ONLY 2x faster than the iPhone 1G? Therefore the claim is valid. These types of comments are so out there that they lose credibility instantly. iPhone may, or may not, be worse that other 3G phone right now that is is totally irrelevant to the issue being discussed.

The phones I mentioned are 3G phones that perform as advertised. The iPhone is a 3G phone that doesn't. Is this crystal clear now? Game, set, match.

[TenoBell]

It would impose a penalty for selling a defective product. I would have thought it was obvious by now.

You would have to penalize every computer and electronics manufacturer because at some point they sold a defective product.

[elf03]

This has to be the most idiotic claim I've seen in a while. Simply stated, if you're not pleased with the device, RETURN IT. Get your money back and purchase another device - if you want another iPhone, fine.

I live in Atlanta and I have a iPhone 3G, having switched from Verizon. Believe me, Verizon is NOT all that it's cracked up to be - I constantly had dropped calls and had a one year old Samsung SCH-u740. I do not regret switching to AT&T to get the iPhone and have had limited issues. I accept that cell service is NEVER going to be "perfect." There are too many factors that impact reception. But filing a class-action lawsuit is a little over the top.

Just be patient - Apple will issue subsequent fixes. Maybe AT&T will upgrade their network to work better, too!

[ralphdaily]

I'm in Birmingham, AL and love my 3G. It is much faster than the original iPhone and I have not had a dropped call.

Ralph
Birmingham, AL

[JeffDM]

It would impose a penalty for selling a defective product. I would have thought it was obvious by now.

But a class action lawsuit generally doesn't help the consumer. It might get a small coupon to buy another product from the same company. Relatively speaking, it's just a slap on the hand and the company that was sued can go about their business.

[Rot'nApple]

This woman is a venomous money sucker.

She's just seeing $$$ in her eyes.

Yeah, I bet she was one of those bitching about the $200.00 price drop within two month of buying the original iPhone and demanding a refund there too! :D

[physguy]

The phones I mentioned are 3G phones that perform as advertised. The iPhone is a 3G phone that doesn't. Is this crystal clear now? Game, set, match.

Are you kidding???? You've not even come close to stating anything quantitive which, of course, is the normal course of business on these forums. Whatever is emotionally satisfying goes. How does the 3G iPhone compare to the 1G? Do you have any statistics to compare? Do you have any idea what quantitative means?

Apple's claims weren't relative to Nokia they were relative to the 1G iPhone? I don't know if they're right or wrong. I do know that with the 10 3G iPhone's we've purchased they are easily more that 2x faster than the 1G where there is 3G service. Every FACT I have at my disposal support Apple's claims but I'm the first to admit I don't have statistics EITHER way. Swish!!!

[Rot'nApple]

Let's see Smith rely on my Internet report.:D

The iPhone 3G has worked very well for me. It's been reasonably reliable--more reliable than my HTC 8525 and Treo 650--and it's more than twice as fast as my original iPhone. Furthermore, when Apple advertises twice as fast, it doesn't say twice as fast all the time or everywhere. Nor does Apple say how they measure the speed. Such is the nature of advertising!

Jessica Smith: are you unhappy with your purchase? RETURN IT.

Actually, what she should do is call Apple and say I'll drop my lawsuit if Apple puts me in one of those iPhone commercials, while standing in front of a black curtain backdrop, showing a ordinary iPhone user talking about their experience with the iPhone and showing off its features as they apply in their world and not as it performs on a stage at the Moscone Center! :err:

Of course, all this will be mute some time in September, according to Steve.

[justflybob]

how is the truth 'negative'..??

Uh, gee, I don't know... perhaps when it is YOUR version of the "truth".

there is no doubt that in a real world scenario the 3g iPhone is vastly inferior with actual 3g performance to comparison models from other companies.

Based on what facts or study? Using what test format? What was determined to be the baseline for all similar devices tested?

I could go on and on, but I think (or at least hope) that you get my point.

Better yet, show me one post in this forum where you have had so much as one complete post that was positive in nature with regards to any Apple product or service? And please, don't just post a series of links to Fox News or MSNBC. If you have some tests that were conducted in a controlled environment, then bring it on. Say, a technical journal? :smokey:

[GregAlexander]

I think that I have a valid legal claim too because my new iPhone is more then twice as fast as my old one-not exactly "twice as fast"

hehe...
That's actually possible. In countries where the data allowance is 80MB and then $1/MB... you don't want things to go too fast!

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

I want my iPhone to work fully too. And am waiting for Apple to make it happen (bad reception at the office - either make it work, or make it drop reliably to 2G, I don't care which).

However, I think this lawsuit is crap. It's not about not getting "double data speed" as advertised, it's about a stable working device.

[Rot'nApple]

The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone. There's no lawsuit about it being faster or slower than Nokia etc.

Can you hear me now? NO!, Can you hear me now? NO! Can you hear me...

We all know, I hope, that ANY carrier cannot guarantee 100% of the time, 100% coverage, 100% no dropped calls, 100% 3G, 100% receiving calls in buildings, 100% no carrier downtime for maintenance, etc. But if the product maker, Apple, says that their product is a 3G phone with "twice the speed" and yet the customer who purchased the phone due to its 3G advertisement about faster speeds for browsing, etc. could never take advantage because they never received a reliable, steady 3G signal, even when the carrier, AT&T, says your on top of our cell tower (being literal there) and especially when other 3G products are doing fine there, well, then I guess according to those who think she doesn't have a leg to stand on, I guess that Apple can do away with future software/firmware updates, they are not needed, because 2.0.2 is just fine, thank you very much!

Seriously, I have even read posts where AT&T is refunding $30.00 to some subscribers because one is paying for a service that they are not receiving.

And before statutory law, the buyer had no warranty of the quality of goods. In many jurisdictions, the law now requires that goods must be of "merchantable quality".

[GregAlexander]

Can you hear me now? NO!, Can you hear me now? NO! Can you hear me...
<snip>
I guess according to those who think she doesn't have a leg to stand on, I guess that Apple can do away with future software/firmware updates, they are not needed, because 2.0.2 is just fine, thank you very much!

Don't yell at me.

Are you even talking to me? You're not addressing what I said in the slightest. Or are you just quoting me before you say what you want to say?

ps.
I remember in primary school the principle was fixing the microphone and said "Joe Bloggs - can you hear me up the back?". Joe answered "Pardon Sir?" - and got detention.

If the person asks "Can you hear me?" and gets no response, that means "No". And in this case No means yes, of course... :-)

[Foo2]

Well you know what? I'm with her.

I've had my iPhone 3G for a month. I live in the DFW are[a] where anyone I know with a 3G phone has all their bars. 90% of the time, I have 1 bar or it drops down to EDGE. I did not buy a 3G iPhone so it could run on EDGE most of the time.

Where are you located 90% of the time? Indoors I'll bet. Are you comparing performance between the different 3G phones when they are in the exact same location? AT&T EDGE communicates at 850 MHz, which penetrates walls better than the 1900 MHz that its 3G service runs on. Depending on where the cell towers are located and the density of your building, your cellular service might just have to be EDGE when you're inside there.

Because the 3G signal is so low, it takes forever to load a web page, or use GPS. Version 2.0.2 didn't solve the problem, so something has to be done.
Your story just doesn't have the ring of truth, because 3G is pretty damn fast even with 1 bar--certainly faster than EDGE--and the iPhone Locator facility is largely independent of cell phone service unless you're indoors where GPS signals can't be received. Furthermore, if you've got Wi-Fi turned off, you're so far buried in a building that the cellular signals can't reach you, and GPS satellites certainly can't be received, then the iPhone Locator facility just isn't going to work for you.

Is this your first smart phone? Your first cell phone?

So fuc* all of you people that say this is crap. I have a $300 phone that doesn't do what I paid for it to do.

Too bad you didn't return the device within the 30-day evaluation period. Considering its price, you must have been satisfied to a good degree to keep it... or maybe you work for Verizon.

[Rot'nApple]

However, I think this lawsuit is crap. It's not about not getting "double data speed" as advertised, it's about a stable working device.

I agree that it's all about a stable working device.

Lets see, we had 2.0 software released with the 3G iPhone that had its share of flaws.

So, Apple released software 2.0.1 that fixed bugs on some phones and cause other phones that didn't have problems to now have problems.

So, Apple released software 2.0.2 that fixed bugs on some more phone and yet still caused other phones that didn't have problems to now have problems.

So, Apple is working on yet another software release...

Three iPhone software releases for an Apple product since its July 12th release and a fourth on the way... This is what Apple lovers everywhere expect from a MS os release but not from Apple!

That alone justifies the lawsuit. ;)

[Rot'nApple]

Don't yell at me.

Are you even talking to me? You're not addressing what I said in the slightest. Or are you just quoting me before you say what you want to say?

ps.
I remember in primary school the principle was fixing the microphone and said "Joe Bloggs - can you hear me up the back?". Joe answered "Pardon Sir?" - and got detention.

If the person asks "Can you hear me?" and gets no response, that means "No". And in this case No means yes, of course... :-)

I would never yell at you.

But if I did, IT WOULD LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!!!! :lol:

Seriously, the post of yours and I quote, "The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone..."

But if her experience is such that she never got to enjoy 3G service and thus 3G speeds and thus could not experience twice as fast as the original iPhone, then she never had a "3G" iPhone, did she? And if the 3G iPhone reverts to speeds of the original iPhone, then nothing was gained for her purchase of a less expensive phone but a more expensive rate plan.

My "Can you hear me now? No!" take on Verizon's commercial is merely satire of someone who cannot for the life of them get reliable 3G to experience that "twice as fast as the original iPhone" no matter where they are, is all I'm saying.

[Foo2]

http://www.apple.com/iphone/gallery/ads/unslow/

"3G not available in all areas."

[GregAlexander]

That alone justifies the lawsuit. ;)

Then make the lawsuit about the product not working.
Then see where things fall.

And while at it, we better sue for a whole lot of other devices too. In Australia the law is that if the product doesn't work as advertised or is faulty, you get your money back. (Many shops try to palm you off to warranty though).


Am I missing something - the lawsuit sounds like it's about false advertising.

[Foo2]

And if the 3G iPhone reverts to speeds of the original iPhone, then nothing was gained for her purchase of a less expensive phone but a more expensive rate plan.

Tell me she doesn't have GPS service in her area, too, so she couldn't enjoy any of the newer hardware features of the iPhone 3G.

Sometimes cellular service providers--Verizon included--charge $10/month just for GPS.
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/43507.html

[Rot'nApple]

But a class action lawsuit generally doesn't help the consumer. It might get a small coupon to buy another product from the same company. Relatively speaking, it's just a slap on the hand and the company that was sued can go about their business.

So I guess Erin Brockovich... :;)

And PG&E's slap on the hand...:grumble:

And the people it helped past, present and future... :\

All good natured ribbing aside...

Sometimes, some good can come about and if the movie about the company, the people harmed, the investigation, the monetary award, if that was all true, well what can I say.

[GregAlexander]

My "Can you hear me now? No! take on Verizon's commercial is merely satire of someone who cannot for the life of them get reliable 3G

Oh, a foreign commercial :-)
Sorry, had no idea.

[Rot'nApple]

Then make the lawsuit about the product not working.
Then see where things fall.

Can't do that, some members on these and other forums are enjoying 3G, so the product in those cases works.


Am I missing something - the lawsuit sounds like it's about false advertising.

Isn't Apple working on a fix to rectify 3G issues? It's hard to enjoy all those twice as fast features as advertised in Apple's commercial, when your 3G iPhone device connects "less than a quarter of the time" in an area that Apple's own partner carrier says should provide "excellent" 3G coverage.

It's not a matter of hating the device and returning it. It's a matter that Apple apparently had major issues with some of their products and that these problems are denying some customers all the benefits that Apple's advertisement said they would enjoy. Not that they would enjoy it 100% all the time, but definitely more than, I would like to think, 25% of the time. Would Apples sales average of 95 iPhones per day per store ring true, if the customer knows that there may be severe limitations for what ever reason 75% of the time that you would not enjoy twice as fast speeds. Would you have bought a 3G iPhone if 3G would "work" less than 25% of the time?

[retroneo]

it promises Internet access "twice as fast"

Here the ads say "really fast" instead.

I have no problem getting 1.5Mbit/s on the iPhone though.

However it gives poorer reception than my previous 5 3G phones, it's as bad as my first 3G phone from 2003 - however much of that was due to the Network still being built out back then.

I have an officially unlocked iPhone 3G and have changed network. Speeds are vastly better on my new network, but the reception in marginal areas is still not up to scratch.

[Rot'nApple]

http://www.apple.com/iphone/gallery/ads/unslow/

"3G not available in all areas."

But GUARANTEED at Steve's Keynote speech! :D

[Rot'nApple]

Tell me she doesn't have GPS service in her area, too, so she couldn't enjoy any of the newer hardware features of the iPhone 3G.

Sometimes cellular service providers--Verizon included--charge $10/month just for GPS.
http://www.mobiledia.com/news/43507.html

I'm not sure but doesn't GPS require 3G service?

If not, why didn't Apple put GPS in the first iPhone versus all that triangulation of cell tower and wifi signals etc. that would pinpoint your location in a 10 block radius versus within exactly 10 feet of where GPS says you are?

If GPS requires fast 3G speeds for the triangulation of satellites in outer space, and she is only getting 3G less than 25% of the time, then GPS, along with other benefits, cannot be truly enjoyed.

[Rot'nApple]

It's been nice jawboning with everyone tonight, but I'm headed for bed.

To all those that have a working 3G iPhone - terrific!

To all those that have a 3G iPhone and wished they had 3G iPhone - hang in there, I'm sure it won't be long.

At least you have an iPhone to marvel and praise or bitch about. I, on the other hand, am economically unable at this point in time. I cannot increase the monthly cost of my cellular service so I stick to my low rate, non 3G, 5 year old crappy phone. For now...

GOOD NIGHT ONE AND ALL!!!!

[GregAlexander]

I'm not sure but doesn't GPS require 3G service?

If not, why didn't Apple put GPS in the first iPhone versus all that triangulation of cell tower and wifi signals etc.

No, GPS doesn't require 3G service. Google Maps do download over the internet though, so without internet it's a bit useless. Regular maps download fine on 2G, but satellite pictures are slow.

Apple chose not to include GPS in the first iPhone. Perhaps it was to save power, perhaps it was to save space...

[penchanted]

But GUARANTEED at Steve's Keynote speech! :D
Where in the keynote did Jobs guarantee that 3G would be universally available?

Isn't Apple working on a fix to rectify 3G issues? It's hard to enjoy all those twice as fast features as advertised in Apple's commercial, when your 3G iPhone device connects "less than a quarter of the time" in an area that Apple's own partner carrier says should provide "excellent" 3G coverage.
One could make the argument that Apple is as much a victim as the complainant if the problem is that ATT overstated their 3G coverage in areas. Perhaps this is part of the reason that Apple must now rework the 3G iPhone firmware.

But if her experience is such that she never got to enjoy 3G service and thus 3G speeds and thus could not experience twice as fast as the original iPhone, then she never had a "3G" iPhone, did she? And if the 3G iPhone reverts to speeds of the original iPhone, then nothing was gained for her purchase of a less expensive phone but a more expensive rate plan.
Using your logic, Apple should be unwilling to sell the iPhone to anyone in Vermont, Nebraska, Idaho and countless other places because someone residing/working there will be unable to enjoy the benefits of 3G. Of course, this would then need to be applied to other handset makers whose 3G speeds are not available in all areas. Are you suggesting you prefer the furtherance of the "nanny state"?

[sapporobaby]

You would have to penalize every computer and electronics manufacturer because at some point they sold a defective product.

True tenobell, but if they warranted being sued, they should be.

[sapporobaby]

Are you kidding???? You've not even come close to stating anything quantitive which, of course, is the normal course of business on these forums. Whatever is emotionally satisfying goes. How does the 3G iPhone compare to the 1G? Do you have any statistics to compare? Do you have any idea what quantitative means?

Apple's claims weren't relative to Nokia they were relative to the 1G iPhone? I don't know if they're right or wrong. I do know that with the 10 3G iPhone's we've purchased they are easily more that 2x faster than the 1G where there is 3G service. Every FACT I have at my disposal support Apple's claims but I'm the first to admit I don't have statistics EITHER way. Swish!!!

Did you bother to read my disclaimer that my test was not scientific or were you too busy typing to read it. I was simply saying and I can go slower if you want, that my other 3G phones seem to perform better than Apple's supposed 3G phone. You are clearly free to read whatever else you want into. Add pixies, fairies, rabbits, ducks, whatever you need to get some sort of edification out of creating jack when none was called for.

Check and mate.

[BigFatDuck]

did i seriously just read that "there is no doubt" that the iphone is slower compared to other phones on 3g networks? PROVE that is the case for every person. my friend has a samsung instinct and my FIRST GEN iphone can load web pages faster almost every time, as well as youtube videos (which is startlingly better on the iphone, along with just about every other aspect of the 2 phones including his scratched-to-hell screen thanks to cheap plastic). my coworker's 3g iphone loads pages much faster than my iphone, so in fact THERE IS NO DOUBT the iphone 3g is faster than the first gen iphone. if a witch burns and wood burns and both wood and ducks float in water, then if someone weighs the same as a duck they must be a witch.

[bitzandbitez]

Nah - it's a ploy by MS and RIM to try to get some negative press for the iPhone ;)

I'm with you tho - this seems like a bit of a paper-thin argument and a good lawyer (of which Apple has plenty) could defeat it. I wonder if the 2.0.2 update fixed it for her - now wouldn't that be funny - haha.

By the time this ever makes it to any real resolution Apple will have released another update that should fix the problem for all but maybe .5% of people at most.

Required Vista upgrades killed my audio card - I think I should file a class action suit...

i have been an APPLE DIE HARD FANBOY (fan man now) 'since '1984 i am an IT TECH in nyc- and i was # 19 on line July 11 at the Soho store in nyc- i waited one whole year and basically drooled over my friends who bought the 1st gen. i-Phone and figured i would wait it out so that i wouldn't be one of the 'testers' of the 1st one- and so when i got my new baby in my hand it was nothing but pure joy and happiness until i tried to use the phone to make calls (most of which were dropped) my mother in florida screamed at me and told me her verizon cell works in the caves in Puerto Rico and she couldn't stand the dropped call issue and insisted on giving me her calling card number so i can call her from a LAN line or other phone-- she also suggested that i'd return the phone back to Apple - i figured- well it must be something where they'll get the kinks out by the 2nd week of the release-

so i gave them the benefit of the doubt-i still had issues so i took the phone into the Soho store and they just replaced it for a new one- which was worse than my first one (the apple store GENIUS guy) also mentioned, after i asked him if what i was getting was a refurbished unit, told me that not at the moment, but that in a month or two he couldn't guarantee me that would be the case-
I have been reading the post on here and elsewhere and believe me when i tell u that i have been having problems

-even more so than before (i just ran the new update) and now my 3rd party apps don't work - the apple genius blamed it on the 3rd party developers - whatever the case may be i have to commend that young lady for her brave lawsuit - and who knows; maybe david might beat goliath here- and APPLE will fix this issue!!!

I STILL LOVE APPLE and remember what VISTA acronym stands for; Viruses Inevitable Stick To Apple = VISTA

[Foo2]

I'm not sure but doesn't GPS require 3G service?

No, Rot'n, the iPhone 3G has "a-GPS" (assisted GPS), which is superior to unassisted GPS, but doesn't require cellular service for localization. a-GPS can utilize cell tower signals and a database of cell tower locations accessed over the cellular data network to triangulate faster than using GPS satellite signals alone.

[sapporobaby]

did i seriously just read that "there is no doubt" that the iphone is slower compared to other phones on 3g networks? PROVE that is the case for every person. my friend has a samsung instinct and my FIRST GEN iphone can load web pages faster almost every time, as well as youtube videos (which is startlingly better on the iphone, along with just about every other aspect of the 2 phones including his scratched-to-hell screen thanks to cheap plastic). my coworker's 3g iphone loads pages much faster than my iphone, so in fact THERE IS NO DOUBT the iphone 3g is faster than the first gen iphone. if a witch burns and wood burns and both wood and ducks float in water, then if someone weighs the same as a duck they must be a witch.

Is it an African Swallow?

[oodlum]

Honestly, I don't think I've EVER had a product that performed as advertised and I'd challenge that none of you have either. Has your Mac ever crashed?* Has an application ever froze on you? ***Have you ever had a non-maintainance related problem with your vehicle? Have those Dr. Sholls insoles made you start "gellin"? (Had to throw that one in there for comic relief :) ) That's advertising - they always advertise the best case scenario - if you're still thinking that every single thing you buy is going to be 100% error free then you don't understand the nature of manufacturing on the massive scale these companies are operating on.

*I've never seen an advertisement claiming that macs never crash.
**I've never seen an advertisement claiming that apps never freeze.
***I've never seen an advertisement claiming that my car will never need maintenance.

This suit may seem petty but the point is that Apple promised 2x edge speeds. False advertising.

Your analogies are feeble, no matter how confidently you state them.

[Mr Underhill]

Exactamundo. Right on the money.

I have two other 3G phones.

Good for you although why you need three phones is anyones guess. Sell off the other two, iPhone is all you need and give the proceeds to charity.

[sapporobaby]

Good for you although why you need three phones is anyones guess. Sell off the other two, iPhone is all you need and give the proceeds to charity.

Here's a thought. How about you minding your own biz when it comes to what I do with my money and I will do the same. Obviously your world is very, very tiny and you do not need more than the most basic to survive. Sooooo take your iPhone, stay in your lane and don't worry about how many phones I do and do not have, and where I choose to donate.

Mmmmk. Thanks for stopping by.

[mjtomlin]

Apple will be forced to either pull the ads or add the same disclaimer they have on their website...

"Based on 3G and EDGE testing. Actual speeds vary by site conditions."


This is kinda like buying a crystal clear TV from BestBuy and taking it home to the middle of no where. After you hook it up, all you get is a crappy reception, which was nothing like what you saw in the store. Then filing a class action suit against the TV manufacturer, because your reception isn't as good as it was in the store or in the commercial. Ridiculous.

Stupid people are the reason we have so many Lawyers and Insurance Companies.

[sapporobaby]

Apple will be forced to either pull the ads or add the same disclaimer they have on their website...

"Based on 3G and EDGE testing. Actual speeds vary by site conditions."

Stupid people are the reason we have so many Lawyers and Insurance Companies.

Well, it is now on the airwaves.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=5617800&page=1

[mjtomlin]

she also suggested that i'd return the phone back to Apple

whatever the case may be i have to commend that young lady for her brave lawsuit - and who knows; maybe david might beat goliath here- and APPLE will fix this issue!!!

#1 Why didn't you just go to Apple and tell them you were having problems with the phone and have them check it out or have them replace it. As consumers in the US we have rights. One of those rights is, if it doesn't work as advertised you can return it and either get a replacement or get your money back.

#2 Brave lawsuit!? How is she being brave? You think this lawsuit is going to force Apple into fixing the problem she's having? Are you insane? All that will come of this is Apple forced to add a disclaimer on the commercials and in advertising.

#3 You don't think Apple is concerned about the issues? And that they aren't already trying hard to fix the problems? Of course they are! This is Apple, a company that pushes out bug fixes faster and more frequently than any other company. It's only been a little over a year now and Apple has pushed out 9 updates, including a major upgrade. (1.0.1, 1.0.2, 1.1.1, 1.1.2, 1.1.3, 1.1.4, 2.0.0, 2.0.1, 2.0.2)

[SpinDrift]

I do get 2x Edge speeds on my 3G iPhone in good network conditions. If the network is poor, why is that Apple's fault? Surly it's the service provider (AT&T, O2 etc) who are responsible for the network, not Apple?!

[oliverwwb]

when will there be the first lawsuits on the lower than promised quality displays in MBPs?

I exportet the EDID Info of my screen including product code and checked the specs on the oem hardware producer's website.

My MacBookPro display only does 262k colours, not the promised "millions of colours". And it only has a contrast of 400:1 instead of the 500:1. I checked four further macbookpro displays of my friends and all do between 248k and 263k colours (there are 4 different producers). this is actually quite bad. especially because I bought the damn thing also for working on photos. Certain gradients just completely mess up. It all boils down to one thing:

Apple is selling a lot worse hardware quality than it used to. It's a rip off, and apple doesNOTcare.

[Mr Underhill]

Obviously your world is very, very tiny and you do not need more than the most basic to survive.

Well the last time i checked it was the same world as yours. That is unless your an alien of course. I mean you can use three phones at the same time.:p

[sapporobaby]

Well the last time i checked it was the same world as yours. That is unless your an alien of course. I mean you can use three phones at the same time.:p

N82 = Work phone and number
E61 = Back up phone (just makes sense. Also is has an Arabic keyboard and is a converstation piece)
iPhone = Cool (need I say more? ) :)

[penchanted]

when will there be the first lawsuits on the lower than promised quality displays in MBPs?

I exportet the EDID Info of my screen including product code and checked the specs on the oem hardware producer's website.

My MacBookPro display only does 262k colours, not the promised "millions of colours". And it only has a contrast of 400:1 instead of the 500:1. I checked four further macbookpro displays of my friends and all do between 248k and 263k colours (there are 4 different producers). this is actually quite bad. especially because I bought the damn thing also for working on photos. Certain gradients just completely mess up. It all boils down to one thing:

Apple is selling a lot worse hardware quality than it used to. It's a rip off, and apple doesNOTcare.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080326-apple-quietly-settles-lawsuit-over-dithered-laptop-displays.html

[vinea]

The phones I mentioned are 3G phones that perform as advertised. The iPhone is a 3G phone that doesn't. Is this crystal clear now? Game, set, match.

What's crystal clear is that you don't care for Apple even if you own some of their stuff and like to tweak fanbois. You seem positively gleeful when Apple has a misstep...

[Bageljoey]

i have been an APPLE DIE HARD FANBOY (fan man now) 'since '1984 i am an IT TECH in nyc- and i was # 19 on line July 11 at the Soho store in nyc- i waited one whole year and basically drooled over my friends who bought the 1st gen. i-Phone and figured i would wait it out so that i wouldn't be one of the 'testers' of the 1st one- and so when i got my new baby in my hand it was nothing but pure joy and happiness until i tried to use the phone to make calls

You have been an Apple fanboy/man for well over 20 years and you didn't know enough to consider the completely redesigned iPhone G3 a first gen product?

I did not see it as an update of the original iPhone but as a new product and I have only been a Mac fanman since 1990... It is new hardware and new software with new functionality afterall.

Still, I'm sorry your mom is mad at you. Thats never good...

[oliverwwb]

@penchanted: nice link! I completely overlooked/missed that. How interesting. It hits the spot nicely.

[sapporobaby]

What's crystal clear is that you don't care for Apple even if you own some of their stuff and like to tweak fanbois. You seem positively gleeful when Apple has a misstep...

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.................

Please write back with something relevant. This is a non starter.

[Fairly]

Apple expressly stated that these speeds were faster over a 3G connection, and they are
Uh - did they also explain their 3G connectivity was going to be CRAP around the world? I'm looking for it now in their published literature. If you find it first then let us know, OK?

[niplij]

I guess that being deep Bible Belt we can assume she's religious. Is she therefore also going to sue the church for misinforming her that the Earth is only 6000 years old, when in fact it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that it is in fact around 4.5 billion years old.:no:

[DavidW]

I would never yell at you.

But if I did, IT WOULD LOOK SOMETHING LIKE THIS!!!!! :lol:

Seriously, the post of yours and I quote, "The lawsuit is suing because Apple said the iPhone 3G is twice as fast as the original iPhone..."

But if her experience is such that she never got to enjoy 3G service and thus 3G speeds and thus could not experience twice as fast as the original iPhone, then she never had a "3G" iPhone, did she? And if the 3G iPhone reverts to speeds of the original iPhone, then nothing was gained for her purchase of a less expensive phone but a more expensive rate plan.

My "Can you hear me now? No!" take on Verizon's commercial is merely satire of someone who cannot for the life of them get reliable 3G to experience that "twice as fast as the original iPhone" no matter where they are, is all I'm saying.

But aren't you comparing the speed of a 3G in less than optimal condition to the speed of a 1G at optimal condition. Just because you're at a location that is getting a slow 3G connection doesn't mean that it's not twice as fast as a 1G. If the 1G were at that same location, that 1G speed might also be degraded.

If you're going to claim that your 3G phone isn't twice as fast as a 1G phone. You just can't compare the speed you're getting on your 3G with what's theoretically possible on a 1G. You need to get a 1G phone and compare them side by side. Under the same condition. A 3G phone can still be twice as fast as a 1G pnone, even if it never connects at 3G. That's because it's possible that under the same condition, the 1G phone might not make a connection at all.

Twice as fast is relative. 100mph is twice as fast as 50mph. But also, 2mph is twice as fast as 1mph. And 1mph is infinitely faster that 0.

Can you hear me now? :lol:

Now I do sympathize with people that can't get a desent 3G connection where they live. But just because Apple is trying to resolve the issue by updating the 3G firmware, it doesn't mean that it's not an ATT network problem.

[bigmc6000]

*I've never seen an advertisement claiming that macs never crash.
**I've never seen an advertisement claiming that apps never freeze.
***I've never seen an advertisement claiming that my car will never need maintenance.

This suit may seem petty but the point is that Apple promised 2x edge speeds. False advertising.

Your analogies are feeble, no matter how confidently you state them.
The question isn't if they stated it would never crash - the question is did they admit that it might crash. The perception to the end user when you buy, say, a Honda is that it's built really well and isn't going to have the problems of a GM (warranted or not). I can't find anywhere that says "the OS may freeze from time to time, sorry" or "you may happen to get a defective rim and you'll blow out and crash on the highway but the chances are small so don't worry." Apple actually says, explicitly, that the speed tests were done by them, when they were done, what they compared it to and that 3G isn't available in all areas. From a "false advertising" perspective they are fine - it's your own fault for not reading the fine print before entering into a 2 year agreement with a $70+/month plan and ponying up $200+ for a phone.

Honestly - I knew this was going to happen tho. They priced it so low that now so many more people can afford it that people who don't understand a lick about technology are buying and complaining without realizing *why* there's a problem.

I've seen it in my office - people who've sent like 5 text messages their entire life and have never even owned an iPod have them. Which is great for Apple's numbers but when they ask me "how do I cut and paste" and I tell them they can't they are bummed. Do some research before you plunk down that much money - good grief. And if the phone is really that bad why on God's green earth would you keep it?!?!?!

[bigmc6000]

I guess that being deep Bible Belt we can assume she's religious. Is she therefore also going to sue the church for misinforming her that the Earth is only 6000 years old, when in fact it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that it is in fact around 4.5 billion years old.:no:
Oh that's nothing - I saw an article the other day about how Flat Earth believers are still out there! I'd say that trumps anything else...

[teckstud]

Am I missing something here? When you go to Apple's website the first thing to appear states "Twice as fast. Half the price." -without any asterisk footnoting exceptions. This is also on all their print and TV advertising- with no disclaimers.
Now I'm not saying Apple is being deceptive- but that is what they state in all their advertising. Just being devil's advocate- pleez don't get mad people.;)

[steviet02]

Ridiculous & asinine behavior. How was AT&T left out from consideration in such an ill-intended, not so well thought "let's make some money" kind of an idea. No argument there may be issues in quality of service, but how does an Alabama Lawyer (presumably) and a citizen of same believe that somebody's trying to dupe them or that there's a chance in he!! they'll ever see a dime. Waste of energy better spent on getting an education by finding a college out of state somewhere.

Word from a phrase by Forrest Gump: AlaBAMA...

AT&T is left out because you can take another manufacturers 3G phone on the AT&T network, side by side with the iPhone and it spanks it in speed tests. This is a 3G iPhone issue, pure and simple. Apple should be praying it's not a hardware issue, this story and complaints have alot of traction and attention now.

[niplij]

Oh that's nothing - I saw an article the other day about how Flat Earth believers are still out there! I'd say that trumps anything else...

:lol:I saw that as well.. surely it would be in the Flat Earthers interests, and the rest of the human population's come to think of it, to prove their point and find the edge of the earth, photograph it, document it and then jump off it!

[irnchriz]

Funnily enough Apple have placed a disclaimer on all of their advertising regarding 'twice as fast'

* Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers.
Some features, applications, and services are not available in all areas. See your carrier for details.
Some applications are not available in all areas. Application availability and pricing are subject to change.

Just another example of a stupid illiterate cow. :)

[irnchriz]

Uh - did they also explain their 3G connectivity was going to be CRAP around the world? I'm looking for it now in their published literature. If you find it first then let us know, OK?

Troll much?

[nasdarq]

I am thinking that, in such a case, claiming misrepresentation (being induced to enter into a contract by false statements not amounting to a term of the contract) is probably more efficient than claiming a breach of 'express warranty'? ... I fail to see any warranty here, express or implied.

Or is this just 'advertising puff', in which case misrep cannot be claimed on that basis? Any lawyers take on this?

[digitalclips]

Exactamundo. Right on the money.

I have two other 3G phones. Nokia N82 and Nokia E61. I will concede that the iPhone has a better browser, but if I go to the same web page with the iPhone (BBC, CNN, MSNBC), the Nokia's simply get there first. This is not a scientific test by any means but I bet her suit gets traction because her claims will for the most part be verifiable. The iPhone is not slow but it is not as fast as other 3G phones. Apple better shit a solution and fast.

Perhaps those other phones are loading specially made Mobile Websites. You know the really simplified versions they have to make for 'smart phones' unable to run real browsers.

[sapporobaby]

I am thinking that, in such a case, claiming misrepresentation (being induced to enter into a contract by false statements not amounting to a term of the contract) is probably more efficient than claiming a breach of 'express warranty'? ... Or is this just 'advertising puff', in which case misrep cannot be claimed on that basis? Any lawyers take on this?

Win or lose what do you think will be the reputation hit that Apple suffers. People will hardly remember that the case was dismissed or even care if Apple wins. They will remember how a perception was created that Apple sold a defective product. This is the real damage.

[sapporobaby]

Perhaps those other phones are loading specially made Mobile Websites. You know the really simplified versions they have to make for 'smart phones' unable to run real browsers.

Not sure what you are talking about and it appears you don't either but so that now you will have a clue, take a peek at these links and read the specs that you missed. By the way, they run Flash.

http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4688582 (N82)

http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4221032 (E61i)

[bigmc6000]

Win or lose what do you think will be the reputation hit that Apple suffers. People will hardly remember that the case was dismissed or even care if Apple wins. They will remember how a perception was created that Apple sold a defective product. This is the real damage.
I think they'll be fine. Virtually every consumer product has problems and most of educated america realizes that filing a law suit is like going to grocery store - it seems like everyone is doing it. Ya know, the economy is down so the only real way to make money is to take it from people/businesses who are successful ;)

Ya know - re-distribution of wealth and all of that :-D

[bigmc6000]

Not sure what you are talking about and it appears you don't either but so that now you will have a clue, take a peek at these links and read the specs that you missed. By the way, they run Flash.

http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4688582 (N82)

http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4221032 (E61i)
Given the same connection the iPhone is going to load the page faster as it's engine is faster than any other mobile on the market. Your real problem is with the connection not with how fast the iPhone can render the page.

[jameskatt2]

The 3G problems are an AT&T network problem.

In rural areas with 3G and fewer users, I get 400-900 kbps download speeds on 3G. It is fantastic and much faster than the 90-160 kbps I am getting on EDGE.

However, in urban areas with 3G and many more users, I am getting 300-600 kbps downloads speeds on 3G. This is still faster than the 90-160 kbps I am getting on EDGE.

There are more problems with urban areas since there are more users.

I believe AT&T has a lot of blame for not anticipating and building more bandwidth into the system with the large number of people who are buying the iPhone 3G and using their data capabilities. This is shown by how much more trouble there is with 3G in urban areas.

AT&T got its wish - more higher paying customers for its data services.

But now AT&T has to continue to build a better network.

And I believe that there should be a law that lawyers who file frivolous lawsuits should get the death penalty. They are a waste.

[bigmc6000]

Am I missing something here? When you go to Apple's website the first thing to appear states "Twice as fast. Half the price." -without any asterisk stating exceptions. Now I'm not saying Apple is being deceptive- but that is what they state in all their advertising. Just being devil's advocate- pleez don't get mad people.;)
That's true but if you click on the iPhone (or go to purchase it) the asterisk shows up. I mean, I think the big problem here is people who are impulse buying and not realizing what they are getting into. The "masses" never complained about Treo's or BB's because the masses didn't buy them but now we're introducing smartphones to an entirely new demographic of people who aren't the traditional smartphone type and are unwilling to accept any problems (mainly because their old phone was so crappy it "just worked" because it didn't have to do much, well, work).

[jameskatt2]

The Birmingham lawyer should be fried for filing a frivolous lawsuit.

Apple was smart to put in a disclaimer.
It is standard practice.

Always put "Your mileage may vary" on any claim to keep you safe from all but the dumbest of dumbass lawyers.

The disclaimer kills the lawsuit. It is frivolous.

Funnily enough Apple have placed a disclaimer on all of their advertising regarding 'twice as fast'

* Comparisons between iPhone 3G (8GB) and first-generation iPhone (8GB) running on EDGE. Actual speeds vary by site conditions. Requires new two-year AT&T rate plan, sold separately to qualified customers.
Some features, applications, and services are not available in all areas. See your carrier for details.
Some applications are not available in all areas. Application availability and pricing are subject to change.

Just another example of a stupid illiterate cow. :)

[NOFEER]

this is nothing more than "vulture" litigation, ITS ALL ABOUT GETTING MONEY from you, me, whoever, that's why ladders cost more, and they have to have warning stickers about being stupid. apple is making it right, no one did a lawsuit when MS stuff opens the door for virus, or when my moto keeps crashing and not even making a call.
vulture frivilous, money hungry greedy bastards.

[Flounder]

Win or lose what do you think will be the reputation hit that Apple suffers. People will hardly remember that the case was dismissed or even care if Apple wins. They will remember how a perception was created that Apple sold a defective product. This is the real damage.

But does that damage actually happen? Apple gets sued practically every week. Most people won't ever hear about it, and most of those that do will assume it's a BS suit, which is the default reaction to a lawsuit by most people in the US.

[ny3ranger]

Exactamundo. Right on the money.

I have two other 3G phones. Nokia N82 and Nokia E61. I will concede that the iPhone has a better browser, but if I go to the same web page with the iPhone (BBC, CNN, MSNBC), the Nokia's simply get there first. This is not a scientific test by any means but I bet her suit gets traction because her claims will for the most part be verifiable. The iPhone is not slow but it is not as fast as other 3G phones. Apple better shit a solution and fast.

I am an iphone user. Both original and 3g. yes there are various software issues. Yes 3g kicks off more and goes to 2g. Yes I do get dropped calls from time to time. I dont care if the 3g speed is not the fastest among other 3g devices. And i had exactly 2 weeks to return it without penalty and i chose to stick with the frustration because quite simply other phones would bore me now. I do hope apple comes up with these patches quickly. This is still a very young product and future iphones will obviously have their OS rock solid. Apple is new to the phone game that it wont get it perfectly right. Other phones have a simple os this is a computer.

I guess you have to weigh it out. Is it the best phone. No. Its the best mobile device. Its a decent phone but everything else is top notch. And eventually apple have their software right. I have been waiting for it for a year. But I have a feeling Jobs is sick of all this apple bashing. He will fix everything this year. Apple might be a secretive company but they are prideful. Their products arent hard to use for buggy. So this is an abberation that will be corrected sooner rather then later.

September will probably have some significant updates and will all these units out there. Hopefully apple is getting error logs from the phones when we sync to itunes and sending it to itself. I do remember iphone asking if you want to send data to apple sometime when i first connected the device.

The ipod was a new device so whatever we got we were happy with. Unfortunately cell phone isnt a new thing. None of us woud have been complaining if cell phones didnt exist and apple came up with this. We just have other devices to compare it to so we can say this sucks or this is better on another model. But I digress. I love apple but yes it does get frustrating at times. But i am happier with their stuff then without if it comes down to it.

[oliinthemorning]

It is ridiculous money grabbing. The Iphone 3G can do things "twice" as fast, if the At&t network was good then, there would be no weak signals or need for the iPhone to downgrade to EDGE. Apple will be doing all they can to fix this problem behind the scenes.

With mobile me, I was a .mac user, with the balls up they gave us weeks of extra contract for free. I wasn't even very pissed off, it was a pain for a week after the launch, but that has to be expected with any new software. Apple do fix things and there is no such thing as a perfect device that uses software. The difference between Apple and other manufacturers is that Apple is going to fix it as soon as they can.

[Flounder]

I am thinking that, in such a case, claiming misrepresentation (being induced to enter into a contract by false statements not amounting to a term of the contract) is probably more efficient than claiming a breach of 'express warranty'? ... I fail to see any warranty here, express or implied.

Or is this just 'advertising puff', in which case misrep cannot be claimed on that basis? Any lawyers take on this?

I believe (my contracts class was a year ago, but I did write the top exam in my class :smokey:) the advantage would be that breach of warranty brings up the possibility of delicious, tort-like damages, where a regular contract claim will only allow expectation damages.

I'd have to go review some notes to give a more accurate response.

Since it's a specific, quantitative thing (twice as fast!) that's probably beyond "advertising puff" which is why they have the disclaimer irnchriz mentions.

[sapporobaby]

I think they'll be fine. Virtually every consumer product has problems and most of educated america realizes that filing a law suit is like going to grocery store - it seems like everyone is doing it. Ya know, the economy is down so the only real way to make money is to take it from people/businesses who are successful ;)

Ya know - re-distribution of wealth and all of that :-D

I could go for a bit of the old wealth re-disto. :)

[irnchriz]

edited

[sapporobaby]

But does that damage actually happen? Apple gets sued practically every week. Most people won't ever hear about it, and most of those that do will assume it's a BS suit, which is the default reaction to a lawsuit by most people in the US.

Good question. I have no idea. I am looking at the longer term damage in the reputation for Apple than just the iPhone.

[sapporobaby]

edited

If you say so but I did not think it work this way as my understanding is that it is a full HTML browser. I thought that the Nokia borwsers were using a similar webkit that the iPhone is using. This was mentioned here in another thread a while back. If you got the info let it flow, and no, I did not try to make it rhyme. Well the last no part I did.

[Flounder]

Good question. I have no idea. I am looking at the longer term damage in the reputation for Apple than just the iPhone.

So am I. My point is the same.

[dcdttu]

I live in Austin, TX, and none of my friends or coworkers iPhone '3G's' or any iPhone '3G' I've seen at either Apple store or at any AT&T store can hold onto a 3G connection to save its life. Meanwhile, all other 3G phones have full reception and don't fall back to 2G when the iPhone '3G' does.

I'm not the biggest fan of lawsuits, but if Apple is going to remain quiet on this, and then release a 'fix' that did nothing for my reception other than make the phone prefer 2G networks even more, maybe this is what needs to happen to get Apple to admit the problem and attempt to fix it.

I've looked at over 20 iPhones, and NONE of them can hold a signal 1/2 as good as the crappiest Samsung or LG 3G phone.

What's even more odd, is that in San Antonio (AT&T's headquarters) my phone performed flawlessly on the highway and in downtown. This would lead some to blame the network, but not me. Other phones perform just fine in areas that the iPhone '3G' struggles. This just shows that, when the signal isn't absolutely pristine and the network isn't overwhelmingly robust, the iPhone '3G' suffers when other phones do not.

[TenoBell]

True tenobell, but if they warranted being sued, they should be.

No, not as long as they are making the attempt to correct their mistake.

In this case its likely a fairly complicated problem to correct and may take some time.

[TenoBell]

Good question. I have no idea. I am looking at the longer term damage in the reputation for Apple than just the iPhone.

I doubt it this certainly is not the first time Apple has gone through this. The last time I can think of is when the notebooks switched to Intel processors and their were reports of all types of problems and lawsuits.

People have seem to have forgotten about all of that.

[TenoBell]

I'm not the biggest fan of lawsuits, but if Apple is going to remain quiet on this, and then release a 'fix' that did nothing for my reception other than make the phone prefer 2G networks even more, maybe this is what needs to happen to get Apple to admit the problem and attempt to fix it.

Apple (AAPL) acknowledged Tuesday that a software update for the iPhone partly fixes the connection snags that have caused a global firestorm for the new iPhone 3G. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20080820/tc_usatoday/appletriestodebugiphone)

[sapporobaby]

I doubt it this certainly is not the first time Apple has gone through this. The last time I can think of is when the notebooks switched to Intel processors and their were reports of all types of problems and lawsuits.

People have seem to have forgotten about all of that.

Good call. Just curious, what do you think will happen?

[bigmc6000]

I live in Austin, TX, and none of my friends or coworkers iPhone '3G's' or any iPhone '3G' I've seen at either Apple store or at any AT&T store can hold onto a 3G connection to save its life. Meanwhile, all other 3G phones have full reception and don't fall back to 2G when the iPhone '3G' does.

I'm not the biggest fan of lawsuits, but if Apple is going to remain quiet on this, and then release a 'fix' that did nothing for my reception other than make the phone prefer 2G networks even more, maybe this is what needs to happen to get Apple to admit the problem and attempt to fix it.

I've looked at over 20 iPhones, and NONE of them can hold a signal 1/2 as good as the crappiest Samsung or LG 3G phone.

What's even more odd, is that in San Antonio (AT&T's headquarters) my phone performed flawlessly on the highway and in downtown. This would lead some to blame the network, but not me. Other phones perform just fine in areas that the iPhone '3G' struggles. This just shows that, when the signal isn't absolutely pristine and the network isn't overwhelmingly robust, the iPhone '3G' suffers when other phones do not.
You should come up to DFW - I've got about 8 friends with the 3G and not a single one of them has a problem :) (We have roads that travel east/west as well - it's a fancy new invention ;) )

[TenoBell]

Good call. Just curious, what do you think