Official RNC 2008 Thread- Rock You Like A Hurricane

[Akumulator]

Looks like McCain's preparing to take full political advantage of a natural disaster.

McCain was scheduled to deliver his acceptance speech Thursday but now may do so from the devastation zone if the storm hits the U.S. coast with the ferocity feared by forecasters.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/13013.html

This should be an interesting week.

[addabox]

Jesus Christ, that article reads like it was from the Onion: "Republicans weigh options for turning disaster into PR opportunity."

McCain might give his acceptance speech from the possible disaster zone? Yeah, way to pitch in, John. Much better than having birthday cake with George.

Maybe he can put on foul weather gear and accept the nomination while pretending to stack sandbags! Or, even better, he and Palin and strap on and go looter hunting!

And I really like the idea that the Red Cross might come to the convention while delegates craft care packages.

McCain is running the most insanely opportunistic, randomly reactive, theme free campaign I've ever seen.

[Jubelum]

Great thread title. :lol:

[Bergermeister]

Jesus Christ, that article reads like it was from the Onion: "Republicans weigh options for turning disaster into PR opportunity."

McCain might give his acceptance speech from the possible disaster zone? Yeah, way to pitch in, John. Much better than having birthday cake with George.

Maybe he can put on foul weather gear and accept the nomination while pretending to stack sandbags! Or, even better, he and Palin and strap on and go looter hunting!

And I really like the idea that the Red Cross might come to the convention while delegates craft care packages.

McCain is running the most insanely opportunistic, randomly reactive, theme free campaign I've ever seen.

The sad thing is, plenty of sheep eat the grass.

[mydo]

It would be great if he does because it's so obviously exploitive. Maybe he could mention that his homes weren't the path of destruction.

[Bergermeister]

The Republicans are getting hit by nature.

The number of cancellations by speakers at the convention is growing by the minute.

Bush, Cheney, The Terminator and many southern governors won't appear, mostly due to the storm. The Terminator has budget problems back in sunny town.

Looks like Mother Nature is sending a rather strong message.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_convention_rdp;_ylt=Alfr617JX._eNs7I4cADKNes0N UE

[jamac]

Looks like Mother Nature is sending a rather strong message.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_convention_rdp;_ylt=Alfr617JX._eNs7I4cADKNes0N UE

Mother Nature must be a liberal.

If God punished gays for parading in New Orleans with Katrina, who is he punishing now?

[BRussell]

They're going to be damned whatever they do. There really aren't any good options.

And because conservative preachers were praying for rain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohxdvio9n2Q) during Obama's outdoor speech, I have to admit some guilty pleasure at this happening during their convention.

[Bergermeister]

McCain says Republicans aren't Americans:

"I pledge that tomorrow night, and if necessary throughout our convention, we will act as Americans and not as Republicans because America needs us now," McCain said.

"We must redirect our efforts from the really celebratory event of the nomination of the president and vice president of our party to acting as all Americans,"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_convention_rdp;_ylt=AkHhnxkuBDfbso0rOhjRBxSs0N UE
:lol::lol::lol:

God Bless Republica!

[BRussell]

I think it's obvious that the Republicans are going to lose this Presidential election (and, of course, won't gain any ground in Congress). So the Democrats will be in charge for (at least) 2 years (possibly more). They will have no more excuses any more. No one to blame. We'll get to see America refashioned in the liberal utopia that we keep hearing about but has been hindered until now. True enough, just like we've seen what happens when Republicans fully took charge from 2000-2006.

[BRussell]

The Republicans are getting hit by nature.

The number of cancellations by speakers at the convention is growing by the minute.

Bush, Cheney, The Terminator and many southern governors won't appear, mostly due to the storm. The Terminator has budget problems back in sunny town. I think the lack of Republicans going to the convention has very little to do with Gustav, and much more to do with the fact that no one wants to be associated with a huge gathering of Republicans. I think they see Gustav as just a lucky break, an excuse not to have to go.

[vinea]

I'm not very optimistic that will happen, but 2-4 (or, God help us, 8) years of liberal Democratic governance should help push things that direction.

Yes, because the Clinton years were disasterous...

[addabox]

I think it's obvious that the Republicans are going to lose this Presidential election (and, of course, won't gain any ground in Congress). So the Democrats will be in charge for (at least) 2 years (possibly more). They will have no more excuses any more. No one to blame. We'll get to see America refashioned in the liberal utopia that we keep hearing about but has been hindered until now.

That will be fine. Well not fine really. Probably disastrous. But at least we can sit back and watch them govern. :lol:

Personally, I'm hoping for this so that some kind of truly conservative (small government, less spending, lower taxes, humble foreign policy) candidate will be offered by some party (presumably the Republicans).

I'm not very optimistic that will happen, but 2-4 (or, God help us, 8) years of liberal Democratic governance should help push things that direction.

Yeah, if Obama fails to refashion America into a liberal utopia over the next couple of years, his administration will have been objectively a failure.

Please tell me that we're not going to have listen to "But I thought your savior could turn water to wine, you mean to tell me he can't personally stop global warming/resolve all conflict/vanquish unemployment/end poverty/raise the dead? I guess you guys feel stupid now!"

Because, really, I'd just as soon stick the knitting needles in my ears now.

[addabox]

This has nothing to do with his messiah-ness (or lack thereof). It's that he and his party will have full control, so their should be no need for any excuses for not getting done what they want to get done.

I don't recall "liberal utopia" being part of the platform. I think most reasonable observers are aware that Bush has done astonishing amounts of damage to the country over the last eight years and that the work of returning the country to fiscal, regulatory, and diplomatic health will be long and arduous. Obviously, "We're in a pretty deep hole here, let's start chipping away" hasn't been the selling point of the campaign, as the Dems would like to win the election.

[BRussell]

This has nothing to do with his messiah-ness (or lack thereof). It's that he and his party will have full control, so their should be no need for any excuses for not getting done what they want to get done.

As long as we realize that even 41 Repubs in the Senate can block bills, sure.

On the larger point, I think we'll see who the true small-c conservatives are. Clinton's presidency was really about stewardship - just paying the bills and not doing anything to screw things up royally. In contrast, the Republicans rolled the dice with their power, trying to refashion the Middle East and playing the whole "cutting taxes will reduce the deficit" theory to its hilt... and look what happened. Who knows, they might have rolled the dice and something great happened. But I'd rather they just be good stewards and not screw things up too bad.

[addabox]

Dobson crony prays for rain to drown Democratic Convention. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJY0NuBC7vo&eurl=http://www.dailykos.com/)

No comment.

EDIT: Oops, BRussel already posted that. Oh well, it deserves to be posted over and over again. It's just that good.

[Bergermeister]

McCain went on air to call for a change ( :wow: ) in the RNC due to the storm. Why was he sitting down? He looked pathetically weak and sickly.

Maybe the introduction of Palin and all of her miscellaneous baggage is getting him down?

Perhaps he could have chosen someone he actually knew?

[Bergermeister]

By the way, I am STILL WAITING for a thread to be started about why we should vote for McCain as opposed to why Obama is the wrong man.

[Bergermeister]

Palin also supports what she doesn't.

What? Sounds like a Republican.


Earmarks


http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/washingtondc/la-na-earmarks1-2008sep01,0,6108885.story

[jimmac]

I think it's obvious that the Republicans are going to lose this Presidential election (and, of course, won't gain any ground in Congress). So the Democrats will be in charge for (at least) 2 years (possibly more). They will have no more excuses any more. No one to blame. We'll get to see America refashioned in the liberal utopia that we keep hearing about but has been hindered until now.

That will be fine. Well not fine really. Probably disastrous. But at least we can sit back and watch them govern. :lol:

Personally, I'm hoping for this so that some kind of truly conservative (small government, less spending, lower taxes, humble foreign policy) candidate will be offered by some party (presumably the Republicans).

I'm not very optimistic that will happen, but 2-4 (or, God help us, 8) years of liberal Democratic governance should help push things that direction.


And if things actually get better it'll be something else that caused that right?:lol:

[SDW2001]

Looks like McCain's preparing to take full political advantage of a natural disaster.



http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/13013.html

This should be an interesting week.

You guys are amazing. If they went on as scheduled, you'd bash them for being out of touch by "having a big party while the hurricane struck."

[vinea]

You guys are amazing. If they went on as scheduled, you'd bash them for being out of touch by "having a big party while the hurricane struck."

It's one thing to change the schedule to be more subdued. That is quite admirable. It's another to give your acceptance speech in the damage zone. That is quite tacky.

[jimmac]

You guys are amazing. If they went on as scheduled, you'd bash them for being out of touch by "having a big party while the hurricane struck."

Nope. Just Bush should be there as he's the only one really responsible right now.
He's still in office.;)

The only one who you would expect to deal with this.

[Bergermeister]

McCain's appearance on camera reminds me of the scene in The Distinguished Gentleman when Dick Dodge smiles for the cameras and says, "Message: We Care."

[mydo]

Gustav turned out to be flaccid so it seems the GOP can rock steady from here on out.

[FormerLurker]

Gustav turned out to be flaccid so it seems the GOP can rock steady from here on out.

Please STFU, or Hannah is going to hit us in S. FL later this week.


:wow:

;)

[Fellowship]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

That was one boring day at the convention...

Fellows

[Gilsch]

Yeah, incredibly boring. No energy at all even though I hear they have naps scheduled after every speaker.

Seriously, it's 95% old white people in the crowd. Compared to the Dems whose crowd seemed much more vibrant and representative of the melting pot that our country is. Young, old, white, black, hispanic, asian, etc etc.

The country's changing and the Geriatric Old Party is thankfully and finally getting left behind.

[mydo]

I find all scripted planned and rehearsed politics boring. It's like watching bad acting.

[CosmoNut]

I honestly had the biggest problem with the staging. Some of the images they're putting on screen during speeches are HORRENDOUS. From a video production standpoint, I cringe everytime the speaker gets to the lecturn, the closeup shot comes up with a nice burgundy background, then all of a sudden WHOOSH! Sky blue. Awful.

[addabox]

I honestly had the biggest problem with the staging. Some of the images they're putting on screen during speeches are HORRENDOUS. From a video production standpoint, I cringe everytime the speaker gets to the lecturn, the closeup shot comes up with a nice burgundy background, then all of a sudden WHOOSH! Sky blue. Awful.

Maybe they decided to go with deliberately amateurish, in contrast with the elitist professionalism of the Democrats.

Maybe this can be their entire thing going forward-- a campaign that looks and feels like it was being conducted from the back of a pickup truck. John McCain can take to wearing ill-fitting suits, their ads can look like they were produced by the same people doing the spots for Wally's Mattress World out on Route 10, and anytime anyone asks a question, someone can just spit and go "hell, I dunno, ain't got time to worry about it, them quail ain't gonna hunt themselves!"

Sarah Palin can go forward exactly as is.

[SDW2001]

Awesome thread title!



Do you honestly think that if the Democrats were faced with a hurricane during their convention, John "prepare two press releases criticizing Obama for doing either option" McCain wouldn't be all over this?

Shawn, I'm not talking about that the GOP would do. That's not the issue. The issue is the reaction here. McCain can't win with you folks. It simply doesn't matter what he does.

[FormerLurker]

Gustov's dampening of the first day of the RNC was not the only impact New Orleans and Louisiana had on Republicans in St. Paul on Monday.

Jam-balaya: Louisiana musicians unite to save the coastal wetlands at the best RNC party of the week

By KARL BREMER 9/3/08 7:16 AM

Louisiana guitarist Tab Benoit had a reason for a heightened sense of urgency in his plea to save his state’s coastal wetlands Monday night at First Avenue in Minneapolis. Earlier that day, Hurricane Gustav made landfall less than 20 miles from Benoit’s hometown of Houma.

“It’s hard for me to be here,” Benoit told the crowd gathered for the New Orleans All-Star Jam-Balaya, an RNC-related $500/ticket benefit for the Gulf Coast rebuilding effort. “But the coast of Louisiana is washing away at the rate of an acre an hour, and we cannot just sit in neutral.”

Benoit headlined the event with his Voice of the Wetlands AllStars, an amalgamation of some of the cream of Louisiana musicians united for the cause that included Cyril Neville (vocals and percussion), Anders Osborne (guitar), George Porter Jr. (bass), Johnny Vidacovich (drums), Jumpin’ Johnny Sansone (harp and accordion), Big Chief Monk Boudreaux (vocals and tambourine), and Waylon Thibodeaux (fiddle).

But it didn’t stop there. Pile on outstanding performances by the Soul Rebels Brass Band, the Wild Tchoupotoulas Mardi Gras Indians, Donald Harrison Jr. (alto sax), Marcia Ball (piano), Leo Nocentelli (guitar), Big Sam Williams (trombone), Kirk Joseph (sousaphone), Henry Butler (piano), Amanda Shaw (fiddle), James "Trombone Shorty" Andrews (trumpet) and Marva Wright (vocals), and this thing looked like a day at the New Orleans Jazz Fest all on one stage.

The five-hour star-studded lineup of Louisiana musicians was sponsored by the Friends of New Orleans with the help of a host of lobbying and music groups, including the Tipitina’s Foundation. A similar event was held in Denver during the Democratic National Conventional.

In addition to the musical entertainment, attendees dined on complimentary seafood gumbo, red beans and rice with andouille sausage, barbecued shrimp, salad and bananas foster.

Even with the abundance of talent on stage, the Republican- and lobbyist-dominated crowd was reluctant to take to the dance floor—no more than 50 were out there at any one time—despite repeated urging from the musicians. A handful ventured out to get down with the Wild Tchoupotoulas, resplendent in their elaborate feather-and-bead costumes. And a couple of brief second-line parades erupted when the music proved too irresistible to sit still. By the end of the marathon evening, about the only ones left were media, musicians and other assorted music fans.

That didn’t stop the musicians on stage from tearing it up, though.

The Voice of the Wetlands, anchored by the precision rhythm section of Porter and Vidacovich, smoked through much of their fine release by the same name and were joined by the other musicians throughout their set.

The Soul Rebels opened, providing the accompaniment for the Wild Tchoupotoulas’ eye candy as they swirled and strutted about the room. Donald Harrison Jr. was joined by a band of talented New Orleans music students, Big Sam Williams and Cyril Neville in a wide-ranging set of jazz, blues and funk. Leo Nocentelli of the original Meters brought his trademark guitar pyrotechnics to the mix. Henry Butler and Marcia Ball took turns beating the ivory off the keys, with Ball also rendering an emotional take on Randy Newman’s “Louisiana 1927.” Young fiddle firebrand Amanda Shaw held her own with Cajun fiddle master Waylon Thibodeaux. And in the finale featuring almost everyone on stage, Marva Wright filled out the roster of guests with a taste of her big, powerful voice on the Neville Brothers’ arrangement of Sam Cooke’s “A Change Is Gonna Come.”

If RNC revelers had to party while Gustav raged, this was the place they could do it this week and still bring their conscience along.


http://www.minnesotaindependent.com/7081/jam-balaya-louisiana-musicians-unite-to-save-the-coastal-wetlands-at-the-best-rnc-party-of-the-week
(there are some nice photos along with the article which I quoted above)

I couldn't help but notice that some song choices, such as "Louisiana 1927" and "A Change Is Gonna Come", could be considered rather ironic for a Republican crowd.

Of course, the overall theme was to raise awareness of the alarming disappearance of Louisiana's coastal wetlands, and not Katrina's Federally-assisted body blow to the city of New Orleans.

However - I can only hope that some of the Republicans in attendance arrived in St. Paul with the "why should we spend any money on rebuilding New Orleans?" mindset, and that direct exposure to some of the world's finest food and music that can be found nowhere else gave them something to think about.

It sounds like quite a party, and I'm pretty jealous - I'm a fan of most of these musicians, and a big fan of about a third of them. And I surely do love me some red beans and rice with andouille sausage!

[Bergermeister]

While surfing over breakfast, I saw an article that said that some guy was passing out cards at the RNC that said Barack HUSSEIN Obama with a short message.

Will search for it now that I'M home...

These people are ugly.

[FormerLurker]

While surfing over breakfast, I saw an article that said that some guy was passing out cards at the RNC that said Barack HUSSEIN Obama with a short message.

Will search for it now that I'M home...

These people are ugly.

Sounds like this year's Purple Heart Band-Aid.

[Fellowship]

Well night # 3 ended with a victory for team McCain.

She out Obama'd Obama.

Wow.. McCain did something right here.

Fellows

[mydo]

Naw I think she was flat. I think she came off as not believable.


When are they going to quit with the POW stuff?

[Bergermeister]

She was also very unhappy at the end, almost in tears.

A complete disaster.

[hardeeharhar]

Well night # 3 ended with a victory for team McCain.

She out Obama'd Obama.

Wow.. McCain did something right here.

Fellows
Really?

I mean, do you think the talk was incredible?

The words were fine at time (she didn't actually write it, which was clear from her delivery) but she was flat...

[SDW2001]

She was also very unhappy at the end, almost in tears.

A complete disaster.

:lol: She was a huge hit. You've got to be kidding me.

[Fellowship]

Really?

I mean, do you think the talk was incredible?

The words were fine at time (she didn't actually write it, which was clear from her delivery) but she was flat...

I actually think she did very well.

I think Obama just lost the race.

Fellows

[Akumulator]

:lol: She was a huge hit. You've got to be kidding me.

Yeah, all those old people in the audience seemed to like her.

[Aries 1B]

I must say that I am favorably impressed. Fantastic speech with many, many excellent points.

I think that she described herself accurately: "What's the difference between a pit-bull and a hockey mom?
"The lipstick."

If McCain can meet or beat (!) that speech, then, barring any major revelations between now and Nov 4, I'd say that the Republicans win the Presidency.

Good to see the Republicans finally go on offense for a change.

V/R,
Aries 1B

PS:

Hillary's Presidential aspirations have just died.

[hardeeharhar]

I actually think she did very well.

I think Obama just lost the race.

Fellows
or do you mean Palin won it?

I don't see how Obama lost the race if she was the one talking.

I didn't expect her to fail.

[hardeeharhar]

For a change, heh.

[Fellowship]

Yeah, all those old people in the audience seemed to like her.

I think people all across the country will admire her quite frankly and many of them will not be "old".

Time will tell. I thought last night the republican party was finished from the looks of this convention.

Then we had the Palin speech tonight. Talk about a game changer.

Fellows

[Fellowship]

or do you mean Palin won it?

I don't see how Obama lost the race if she was the one talking.

I didn't expect her to fail.

I am simply saying in not so many words that Palin is far more substantial than I originally thought.

This does nothing but shore up team McCain.

This is not to say Obama has lost anything.

It is only to suggest that this race one of the most interesting in my lifetime.

Fellows

[Fellowship]

Fellows, you're putting us on man!

Stop!

:lol:

Fellows

[Frank777]

She did amazingly well. Especially under the pressure of having everything but the kitchen sink thrown at her in the last 5 days.

I still think Obama will pull off the win though.

[Akumulator]

I guess we'll see.
Anyone else feel like they were watching a Minnie Pearl convention looking at the people in the crowd?

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/49/150135244_dbbcef65b5.jpg

[Gilsch]

wow Fellows.

Every day I come here you have a completely different opinion. Dating to 2003. Weird.

[Fellowship]

wow Fellows.

Every day I come here you have a completely different opinion. Dating to 2003. Weird.

I am not a stale personality. I am one of the most opinionated people I know :D :devil:

I just call things the way I see them.

I never said I am right. I just state my opinions.

Fellows

[hardeeharhar]

I am simply saying in not so many words that Palin is far more substantial than I originally thought.

This does nothing but shore up team McCain.

This is not to say Obama has lost anything.

It is only to suggest that this race one of the most interesting in my lifetime.

Fellows

I honestly don't think the democrats underestimated her political abilities. She has risen too quickly to be without any skill set.

[tonton]

She did amazingly well. Especially under the pressure of having everything but the kitchen sink thrown at her in the last 5 days.

I still think Obama will pull off the win though.

I think it's amazing how much the conservative base thinks she did great simply because her speechwriters repeated the talking points.

Meanwhile, reality is another beast. She was flat. She was not happy. She was not enthusiastic. She was unoriginal, and the points made were not honest.

[FormerLurker]

Well night # 3 ended with a victory for team McCain.

She out Obama'd Obama.

Wow.. McCain did something right here.

Fellows

SERIOUSLY?

Her delivery was somewhere between PTA mom, and small-town mayor. Literally not in the same "ballpark" as Obama's.

[vinea]

I thought she did a competent job at speech making. I think she obviously lied about a few things...more so than the Dems did...but that's about par I think.

But all in all a very good job. Game changer? Perhaps. She plays to Republican strengths and can motivate the base to actually come out this year to vote which was in doubt before McCain picked her.

Independents? We'll see.

[Gilsch]

I am not a stale personality. I am one of the most opinionated people I know :D :devil:

I just call things the way I see them.

I never said I am right. I just state my opinions.

Fellows

Yeah. That's what it is.

[tonton]

wow Fellows.

Every day I come here you have a completely different opinion. Dating to 2003. Weird.

True, but you had to see this coming when McCain picked a strict anti-abortionist.

Fellows is one of the few fence-sitters for which this wedge issue works 100% of the time. Most of the anti-abortion-clingers will never in their life vote for a Democrat, so this phenomenon will not have much impact on the final election tally.

[hardeeharhar]

I think it's amazing how much the conservative base thinks she did great simply because her speechwriters repeated the talking points.

Meanwhile, reality is another beast. She was flat. She was not happy. She was not enthusiastic. She was unoriginal, and the points made were not honest.
Exactly.

She was more than deceitful about Obama's proposals (I think it may work because tax reducing democrat is a national oxymoron). She was much more than more than decietful about her OWN record.

She was introducing herself to the national stage and she came off unsympathetic. People, I think, will on the whole find her slightly repulsive.

[Fellowship]

She impressed the ole fellows.

Fellows

[vinea]

She was also very unhappy at the end, almost in tears.

A complete disaster.

I didn't see that. She did make that face again when McCain hugged her.

Heck, I would too...the guys creepy now. We should have nominated him 8 years ago instead of shrub.

The only thing I don't like about Palin is that she seems as lightweight as Bush. Deliberately so.

[Gilsch]

She did better than I thought she would, but it was ALL reading. It was good for the base no doubt.

At times the speech seemed to have been written for someone else by the Bush speech writers.

[Fellowship]

SERIOUSLY?

Her delivery was somewhere between PTA mom, and small-town mayor. Literally not in the same "ballpark" as Obama's.

No I fully understand her caliber was more "real" and less surreal.

I also fully understand that she is the VP slot on the ticket compared to Obama being the top of his ticket. This said I believe she is tougher than Obama.

Obama is weak in the name of being a gentleman. Sarah Palin comes across as a tough woman who in my view is tougher than Obama.

Fellows

[vinea]

I thought she did a competent job at speech making. I think she obviously lied about a few things...more so than the Dems did...but that's about par I think.

But all in all a very good job. She plays to Republican strengths and can motivate the base to actually come out this year to vote which was in doubt before McCain picked her. Independents? We'll see.

Rubs me the wrong way though. She's a lightweight like Bush. And McCain is just creepy now. I wish we had nominated him 8 years ago. Did you see she made that same face when McCain hugged her again?

Meh. Count me as one republican thats not excited about her.

[FormerLurker]

This said I believe she is tougher than Obama.

Obama is weak in the name of being a gentleman. Sarah Palin comes across as a tough woman who in my view is tougher than Obama.

Fellows

In other words - she's more of a natural at negative, divisive, attack politics?

I don't doubt that for a minute.

[tonton]

No I fully understand her caliber was more "real" and less surreal.

I also fully understand that she is the VP slot on the ticket compared to Obama being the top of his ticket. This said I believe she is tougher than Obama.

Obama is weak in the name of being a gentleman. Sarah Palin comes across as a tough woman who in my view is tougher than Obama.

Fellows

As if what we need after the Bush fiasco is more cowboy "toughness".

No. What we need now is international diplomacy. Period.

And I call bullshit on why you like Palin.

Name one thing she did as mayor that you support.

Name one thing she did as governor that you support.

You can't. And you don't care. Because she has wedged you in.

[FormerLurker]

More so that that's the Republican script... nasty, divisive politics.

Exactly - and that's all she did, was read a script that someone prepared for her.

[Fellowship]

In other words - she's more of a natural at negative, divisive, attack politics?

I don't doubt that for a minute.

I like how Obama conducts himself. He is respectful and thoughtful but in the world of politics and the screwed up world we live in I am not sure if his niceness will work.

Fellows

[hardeeharhar]

(she didn't write the speech)

[vinea]

No I fully understand her caliber was more "real" and less surreal.

I also fully understand that she is the VP slot on the ticket compared to Obama being the top of his ticket. This said I believe she is tougher than Obama.

Obama is weak in the name of being a gentleman. Sarah Palin comes across as a tough woman who in my view is tougher than Obama.


Well she sure appealed to the religious base anyway.

I dunno anything about her character other than she's a liar. Of course, given she's a politician and likely Obama has lied too since he's a politician too. But lying about the bridge thing was just too transparent to me.

I dislike it when politicians assume I'm an idiot.

[Fellowship]

As if what we need after the Bush fiasco is more cowboy "toughness".

No. What we need now is international diplomacy. Period.

And I call bullshit on why you like Palin.

Name one thing she did as mayor that you support.

Name one thing she did as governor that you support.

You can't. And you don't care. Because she has wedged you in.

I don't mean toughness in terms of foreign policy. The republicans have really left my values with their foreign policy. I thought she was tough when describing energy policy where Obama comes across as almost one who stutters when he discusses his positions on energy policy.

Fellows

[Fellowship]

But lying about the bridge thing was just too transparent to me.

I dislike it when politicians assume I'm an idiot.

That bothered me as well and I agree with you here 100%

Fellows

[hardeeharhar]

I don't mean toughness in terms of foreign policy. The republicans have really left my values with their foreign policy. I thought she was tough when describing energy policy where Obama comes across as almost one who stutters when he discusses his positions on energy policy.

Fellows
Look at his acceptance speech again fellows...

[Frank777]

Fellows is one of the few fence-sitters for which this wedge issue works 100% of the time. Most of the anti-abortion-clingers will never in their life vote for a Democrat, so this phenomenon will not have much impact on the final election tally.

There are plenty of pro-lifers who work for, cheer for and volunteer for Democrats that hold pro-life positions. The fact that the national party is in a pro-abortion stranglehold by radical leftists is the reason why this never translates into broad national support by Evangelicals.

And this turns what should be an easy Democratic win into a real fight. Before nutbars started running the Democratic asylum, the parties were fairly evenly matched.

Tonight is a case in point. Both Obama and Dean have worked hard for months to try to close the gap in support amongst people of faith. So Palin gets picked for VP, and a few idiots panic and start running pro-choice ads all over the place.

And all the work that Obama and Dean have done to narrow that gap gets undone in ONE NIGHT.

You are right that the diehards were always going to vote McCain. But the fencesitters (like possibly Fellowship et al) on the pro-life side have now been pushed over. That's not smart strategy.

[FormerLurker]

I like how Obama conducts himself. He is respectful and thoughtful but in the world of politics and the screwed up world we live in I am not sure if his niceness will work.

Fellows

Well - in terms of the convention speech, it is traditional for the VP nominee to solidify a position as lead attack dog*. It's understood that the Presidential nominee will be less "tough" than the VP.



*Wait... is it sexist of me to refer to her as an attack dog?
:err:

[vinea]

One thing for sure...the dems better not assume victory. They better mobilize because the religous base has their standard bearer.

God, I am so fucking tired of the religious right in my party calling the shots every damn election.

[Fellowship]

Attack bitch!

Shawn, shawn, shawn...

[Fellowship]

One thing for sure...the dems better not assume victory. They better mobilize because the religous base has their standard bearer.

God, I am so fucking tired of the religious right in my party calling the shots every damn election.

become a democrat..

Fellows

[sammi jo]

I think it's amazing how much the conservative base thinks she did great simply because her speechwriters repeated the talking points.

Meanwhile, reality is another beast. She was flat. She was not happy. She was not enthusiastic. She was unoriginal, and the points made were not honest.

Lots of unreality from Palin in her speech. But that goes with the territory: they all go there, democrat or republican. If I had my way, I can think of a great use for the aging Space Shuttle fleet before its retired... but I won't go there right now..

Here's an account about Sarah Palin from an Alaska insider, someone who knows her well.. Love her or dislike her, its definitely worth a read, to get a closer look at the potential next VP:

I am a resident of Wasilla, Alaska. I have known Sarah since 1992. Everyone here knows Sarah, so it is nothing special to say we are on a first-name basis. Our children have attended the same schools. Her father was my child's favorite substitute teacher. I also am on a first name basis with her parents and mother-in-law. I attended more City Council meetings during her administration than about 99% of the residents of the city.


She is enormously popular; in every way she's like the most popular girl in middle school. Even men who think she is a poor choice and won't vote for her can't quit smiling when talking about her because she is a "babe".


It is astonishing and almost scary how well she can keep a secret. She kept her most recent pregnancy a secret from her children and parents for seven months.


She is "pro-life". She recently gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby. There is no cover-up involved, here; Trig is her baby.


She is energetic and hardworking. She regularly worked out at the gym.


She is savvy. She doesn't take positions; she just "puts things out there" and if they prove to be popular, then she takes credit.


Her husband works a union job on the North Slope for BP and is a champion snowmobile racer. Todd Palin's kind of job is highly sought-after because of the schedule and high pay. He arranges his work schedule so he can fish for salmon in Bristol Bay for a month or so in summer, but by no stretch of the imagination is fishing their major source of income. Nor has her life-style ever been anything like that of native Alaskans.


Sarah and her whole family are avid hunters.


She's smart.


Her experience is as mayor of a city with a population of about 5,000 (at the time), and less than 2 years as governor of a state with about 670,000 residents.


During her mayoral administration most of the actual work of running this small city was turned over to an administrator. She had been pushed to hire this administrator by party power-brokers after she had gotten herself into some trouble over precipitous firings which had given rise to a recall campaign.


Sarah campaigned in Wasilla as a "fiscal conservative". During her 6 years as Mayor, she increased general government expenditures by over 33%. During those same 6 years the amount of taxes collected by the City increased by 38%. This was during a period of low inflation (1996-2002). She reduced progressive property taxes and increased a regressive sales tax which taxed even food. The tax cuts that she promoted benefited large corporate property owners way more than they benefited residents.


The huge increases in tax revenues during her mayoral administration weren't enough to fund everything on her wish list though, borrowed money was needed, too. She inherited a city with zero debt, but left it with indebtedness of over $22 million. What did Mayor Palin encourage the voters to borrow money for? Was it the infrastructure that she said she supported? The sewage treatment plant that the city lacked? or a new library? No. $1m for a park. $15m-plus for construction of a multi-use sports complex which she rushed through to build on a piece of property that the City didn't even have clear title to, that was still in litigation 7 yrs later--to the delight of the lawyers involved! The sports complex itself is a nice addition to the community but a huge money pit, not the profit-generator she claimed it would be. She also supported bonds for $5.5m for road projects that could have been done in 5-7 yrs without any borrowing.


While Mayor, City Hall was extensively remodeled and her office redecorated more than once.


These are small numbers, but Wasilla is a very small city.


As an oil producer, the high price of oil has created a budget surplus in Alaska. Rather than invest this surplus in technology that will make us energy independent and increase efficiency, as Governor she proposed distribution of this surplus to every individual in the state.


In this time of record state revenues and budget surpluses, she recommended that the state borrow/bond for road projects, even while she proposed distribution of surplus state revenues: spend today's surplus, borrow for needs.


She's not very tolerant of divergent opinions or open to outside ideas or compromise. As Mayor, she fought ideas that weren't generated by her or her staff. Ideas weren't evaluated on their merits, but on the basis of who proposed them.


While Sarah was Mayor of Wasilla she tried to fire our highly respected City Librarian because the Librarian refused to consider removing from the library some books that Sarah wanted removed. City residents rallied to the defense of the City Librarian and against Palin's attempt at out-and-out censorship, so Palin backed down and withdrew her termination letter. People who fought her attempt to oust the Librarian are on her enemies list to this day.


Sarah complained about the "old boy's club" when she first ran for Mayor, so what did she bring Wasilla? A new set of "old boys". Palin fired most of the experienced staff she inherited. At the City and as Governor she hired or elevated new, inexperienced, obscure people, creating a staff totally dependent on her for their jobs and eternally grateful and fiercely loyal--loyal to the point of abusing their power to further her personal agenda, as she has acknowledged happened in the case of pressuring the State's top cop (see below).


As Mayor, Sarah fired Wasilla's Police Chief because he "intimidated" her, she told the press. As Governor, her recent firing of Alaska's top cop has the ring of familiarity about it. He served at her pleasure and she had every legal right to fire him, but it's pretty clear that an important factor in her decision to fire him was because he wouldn't fire her sister's ex-husband, a State Trooper. Under investigation for abuse of power, she has had to admit that more than 2 dozen contacts were made between her staff and family to the person that she later fired, pressuring him to fire her ex-brother-in-law. She tried to replace the man she fired with a man who she knew had been reprimanded for sexual harassment; when this caused a public furor, she withdrew her support.


She has bitten the hand of every person who extended theirs to her in help. The City Council person who personally escorted her around town introducing her to voters when she first ran for Wasilla City Council became one of her first targets when she was later elected Mayor. She abruptly fired her loyal City Administrator; even people who didn't like the guy were stunned by this ruthlessness.


Fear of retribution has kept all of these people from saying anything publicly about her.


When then-Governor Murkowski was handing out political plums, Sarah got the best, Chair of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission: one of the few jobs not in Juneau and one of the best paid. She had no background in oil & gas issues. Within months of scoring this great job which paid $122,400/yr, she was complaining in the press about the high salary. I was told that she hated that job: the commute, the structured hours, the work. Sarah became aware that a member of this Commission (who was also the State Chair of the Republican Party) engaged in unethical behavior on the job. In a gutsy move which some undoubtedly cautioned her could be political suicide, Sarah solved all her problems in one fell swoop: got out of the job she hated and garnered gobs of media attention as the patron saint of ethics and as a gutsy fighter against the "old boys' club" when she dramatically quit, exposing this man's ethics violations (for which he was fined).


As Mayor, she had her hand stuck out as far as anyone for pork from Senator Ted Stevens. Lately, she has castigated his pork-barrel politics and publicly humiliated him. She only opposed the "bridge to nowhere" after it became clear that it would be unwise not to.


As Governor, she gave the Legislature no direction and budget guidelines, then made a big grandstand display of line-item vetoing projects, calling them pork. Public outcry and further legislative action restored most of these projects--which had been vetoed simply because she was not aware of their importance--but with the unobservant she had gained a reputation as "anti-pork".


She is solidly Republican: no political maverick. The State party leaders hate her because she has bit them in the back and humiliated them. Other members of the party object to her self-description as a fiscal conservative.


Around Wasilla there are people who went to high school with Sarah. They call her "Sarah Barracuda" because of her unbridled ambition and predatory ruthlessness. Before she became so powerful, very ugly stories circulated around town about shenanigans she pulled to be made point guard on the high school basketball team. When Sarah's mother-in-law, a highly respected member of the community and experienced manager, ran for Mayor, Sarah refused to endorse her.


As Governor, she stepped outside of the box and put together of package of legislation known as "AGIA" that forced the oil companies to march to the beat of her drum.


Like most Alaskans, she favors drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. She has questioned if the loss of sea ice is linked to global warming. She campaigned "as a private citizen" against a state initiaitive that would have either a) protected salmon streams from pollution from mines, or b) tied up in the courts all mining in the state (depending on who you listen to). She has pushed the State's lawsuit against the Dept. of the Interior's decision to list polar bears as threatened species.


McCain is the oldest person to ever run for President; Sarah will be a heartbeat away from being President.


There has to be literally millions of Americans who are more knowledgeable and experienced than she.


However, there's a lot of people who have underestimated her and are regretting it.


CLAIM VS FACT
* "Hockey mom": true for a few years


* "PTA mom": true years ago when her first-born was in elementary school, not since


* "NRA supporter": absolutely true


* social conservative: mixed. Opposes gay marriage, BUT vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to employees in same-sex relationships (said she did this because it was unconsitutional).


* pro-creationism: mixed. Supports it, BUT did nothing as Governor to promote it.


* "Pro-life": mixed. Knowingly gave birth to a Down's syndrome baby BUT declined to call a special legislative session on some pro-life legislation


* "Experienced": Some high schools have more students than Wasilla has residents. Many cities have more residents than the state of Alaska. No legislative experience other than City Council. Little hands-on supervisory or managerial experience; needed help of a city administrator to run town of about 5,000.


* political maverick: not at all


* gutsy: absolutely!


* open & transparent: ??? Good at keeping secrets. Not good at explaining actions.


* has a developed philosophy of public policy: no


* "a Greenie": no. Turned Wasilla into a wasteland of big box stores and disconnected parking lots. Is pro-drilling off-shore and in ANWR.


* fiscal conservative: not by my definition!


* pro-infrastructure: No. Promoted a sports complex and park in a city without a sewage treatment plant or storm drainage system. Built streets to early 20th century standards.


* pro-tax relief: Lowered taxes for businesses, increased tax burden on residents


* pro-small government: No. Oversaw greatest expansion of city government in Wasilla's history.


* pro-labor/pro-union. No. Just because her husband works union doesn't make her pro-labor. I have seen nothing to support any claim that she is pro-labor/pro-union.


WHY AM I WRITING THIS?


First, I have long believed in the importance of being an informed voter. I am a voter registrar. For 10 years I put on student voting programs in the schools. If you google my name you will find references to my participation in local government, education, and PTA/parent organizations.


Secondly, I've always operated in the belief that "Bad things happen when good people stay silent". Few people know as much as I do because few have gone to as many City Council meetings.


Third, I am just a housewife. I don't have a job she can bump me out of. I don't belong to any organization that she can hurt. But, I am no fool; she is immensely popular here, and it is likely that this will cost me somehow in the future: that's life.


Fourth, she has hated me since back in 1996, when I was one of the 100 or so people who rallied to support the City Librarian against Sarah's attempt at censorship.


Fifth, I looked around and realized that everybody else was afraid to say anything because they were somehow vulnerable.


CAVEATS
I am not a statistician. I developed the numbers for the increase in spending & taxation 2 years ago (when Palin was running for Governor) from information supplied to me by the Finance Director of the City of Wasilla, and I can't recall exactly what I adjusted for: did I adjust for inflation? for population increases? Right now, it is impossible for a private person to get any info out of City Hall -- they are swamped. So I can't verify my numbers.


You may have noticed that there are various numbers circulating for the population of Wasilla, ranging from my "about 5,000", up to 9,000. The day Palin's selection was announced a city official told me that the current population is about 7,000. The official 2000 census count was 5,460. I have used about 5,000 because Palin was Mayor from 1996 to 2002, and the city was growing rapidly in the mid-90's.

There you go. We don't need to go anywhere near the "pregnant daughter" (non)issue, the weird'n'wacky creationist bull-biscuits, or her "babe" factor. Palin sounds unstable, a loose cannon. To have that kind of person "a heartbeat away from the presidency" is a most unwelcome proposition.. but at least she doesn't come across as a bonafide psychopath....

[FormerLurker]

Shawn, shawn, shawn...

C'mon now, Fellows, give poor Shawn a break... I'm the one that lobbed the softball.

However, I was fairly sure that he would be the one to smash it out of the park....
:lol:

[Frank777]

(she didn't write the speech)

And Obama writes all his speeches?

Don't be silly, both parties have an army of speechwriters at their disposal.

Didn't you ever watch The West Wing? ;)

[Fellowship]

C'mon now, Fellows, give poor Shawn a break... I'm the one that lobbed the softball.

However, I was fairly sure that he would be the one to smash it out of the park....
:lol:

There was a time Shawn got onto me for using that word.

That is the irony of it!

Fellows

[Frank777]

Here's an account about Sarah Palin from an Alaska insider...

Tonton's already posted that. And it was pretty weak then too.

[hardeeharhar]

There are plenty of pro-lifers who work for, cheer for and volunteer for Democrats that hold pro-life positions. The fact that the national party is in a pro-abortion stranglehold by radical leftists is the reason why this never translates into broad national support by Evangelicals.

I know no one who is pro-abortion. Please, if you want to have any sort of conversation about how to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions, do the Christian thing and realize that your deceptive use of language is divisive.

And this turns what should be an easy Democratic win into a real fight. Before nutbars started running the Democratic asylum, the parties were fairly evenly matched.

How so? Maybe, you are right, but I don't seem to see it.

Tonight is a case in point. Both Obama and Dean have worked hard for months to try to close the gap in support amongst people of faith. So Palin gets picked for VP, and a few idiots panic and start running pro-choice ads all over the place.

It goes beyond abortions, Frank. There is a real and legitimate fear that the Christian political movement will not stop at abortion. They certainly didn't stop there before. Banning books, contraceptives, decency laws etc are the stuff of a Christian centered view on the role of government in bringing about a Christian theocracy (and that IS a bad thing)

And all the work that Obama and Dean have done to narrow that gap gets undone in ONE NIGHT.

One night? You must not have expected much from Sarah Palin. I certainly saw a half-decent read speech in the making and that is exactly what we got.

You are right that the diehards were always going to vote McCain. But the fencesitters (like possibly Fellowship et al) on the pro-life side have now been pushed over. That's not smart strategy.

Why?

What about the Republican party screams Christian?

Other than the rhetoric, what is there?

[hardeeharhar]

And Obama writes all his speeches?

Don't be silly, both parties have an army of speechwriters at their disposal.

Didn't you ever watch The West Wing? ;)
The vast vast majority, he does.

[vinea]

become a democrat..

Fellows

Not likely.

I guess I will volunteer and donate for Obama though.

[hardeeharhar]

Tonton's already posted that. And it was pretty weak then too.
But Frank, most of this email is documented elsewhere by the media with multiple sources corroborating.

Especially the banning books part.

[tonton]

Tonton's already posted that. And it was pretty weak then too.

Yes it is weak against the people who simply don't care. They will never care. She can push earmarks, raise taxes, run up a huge debt, but they'll just ignore it, just like Frank has.

[Aries 1B]

No. What we need now is international diplomacy. Period.

Name one thing she did as governor that you support.


Screw international diplomacy. America First. Period.

She ejected a corrupt, Republican (her own party) old-boy network, replaced the bastards and her state is now running at a surplus. 13 billion in revenues, 9+/- billion budget. Sweet!

Palin - 2012

V/r,
Aries 1B

[tonton]

But Frank, most of this email is documented elsewhere by the media with multiple sources corroborating.

Especially the banning books part.

Pssst... Frank supports her banning of books, if they criticize religion or argue for a woman's choice. This won't sway him.

It's the fiscal policies that are the real kicker here.

[FormerLurker]

There are plenty of pro-lifers who work for, cheer for and volunteer for Democrats that hold pro-life positions. The fact that the national party is in a pro-abortion stranglehold by radical leftists is the reason why this never translates into broad national support by Evangelicals.

And this turns what should be an easy Democratic win into a real fight. Before nutbars started running the Democratic asylum, the parties were fairly evenly matched.


In all fairness.... the Republicans aren't exactly unanimous (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-republican-moderatessep04,0,7572779.story) on their abortion stance, either.....

Now it's moderates wondering if there's a place for them in the era of McCain. And throughout the convention hall and meeting rooms of the Republican National Convention, gleeful conservatives are much easier to find than moderates feeling completely at ease.

"We are discouraged by the platform, which was such a lost opportunity to reach out to moderates," said Kellie Ferguson, executive director of the Republican Majority for Choice, a group that promotes GOP candidates who are moderate and support abortion rights.

"We're very happy they put a woman on the ticket," she said. "But in terms of the choice issue, it makes us very nervous."

Already knocked back by losses among the GOP's congressional moderates two years ago, some suburban Chicago lawmakers say the vice presidential discussions this summer hurt the party.

Rep. Judy Biggert (R-Ill.) says she is excited about the ultimate selection of Palin for the slot, because she's a woman who "busted the old-boy network."

Still, she said she was disheartened by repeated avowals this summer that McCain would suffer if he selected a candidate who supported abortion rights.

"It always bothers me that they say they can't choose this person or that person for a running mate because they're not pro-life," said Biggert. "I respect all members of the party no matter what their views are, but [that attitude] does make it a little harder for us."

[vinea]

Screw international diplomacy. America First. Period.


If you screw diplomacy then America won't be first. Period.


Palin - 2012


Are you expecting McCain to lose or die in the next 4 years?

[Fellowship]

Not likely.

I guess I will volunteer and donate for Obama though.

I was just teasing you there..

I wish we had more Christians that were less oriented towards war. This is where I differ from Palin and so many republicans. I have respect for vets and those who serve the country but when does it become "overplayed" as I see that it clearly was with this Republican convention to date.

I mean... It is awfully nationalistic, patriotic overload.

Again I have no disrespect for those who served bravely on my behalf. I just think there is a threshold at some point where we cross a boundary when we over play the war and service card.

Am I wrong?

Fellows

[FormerLurker]

:lol:

Like a moth to the flame...

At least I'm willing to take at least partial blame when my trolling results in the expected response (unlike SOME posters here.....).
;)

[tonton]

It goes beyond abortions, Frank. There is a real and legitimate fear that the Christian political movement will not stop at abortion. They certainly didn't stop there before. Banning books, contraceptives, decency laws etc are the stuff of a Christian centered view on the role of government in bringing about a Christian theocracy (and that IS a bad thing)

Frank777 supports all of the above. When it comes to God, he's as ultra-conservative as they come.

[FormerLurker]

.... why did this thread suddenly get "Moved" off of the PO front page..... and where did it get moved to?
:???:

[tonton]

Agreed. Please don't start a "McCain's Speech" thread. It goes here, just like the Palin speech does.

[Frank777]

I know no one who is pro-abortion. Please, if you want to have any sort of conversation about how to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and thus abortions, do the Christian thing and realize that your deceptive use of language is divisive.

Not divisive, truthful. Abortion has become an industry in North America. Hundreds of millions of dollars, much of it public money, are used to promote, procure and even subsidize the practice. This is an industry, and it has powerful and well connected backers.

And don't even get me started on those who see the reduction and slow extermination of minorities as a public policy objective in itself. Like the modern-day disciples of Margaret Sanger.

Pro-abortion is accurate. Deal with it.


How so? Maybe, you are right, but I don't seem to see it.

Carter got elected in 1976 WITH the support of Evangelicals. It's been downhill ever since.
Roe v Wade was decided in 1973. Abortion has been a disaster for the Democrats.



It goes beyond abortions, Frank. There is a real and legitimate fear that the Christian political movement will not stop at abortion. They certainly didn't stop there before. Banning books, contraceptives, decency laws etc are the stuff of a Christian centered view on the role of government in bringing about a Christian theocracy (and that IS a bad thing)

Ah yes, the secret agenda. Evangelicals are direct descendents of those who were pushed out of their own country because of a state religion, but we secretly harbour to take over the country and throw all the liberals into Alaska (okay, the Palin thing stops that image from working...)

In the meantime, liberals are hauling Christians before "Human Rights Commissions" and ordering them to recant.


One night? You must not have expected much from Sarah Palin. I certainly saw a half-decent read speech in the making and that is exactly what we got.

Honestly, I didn't expect her to be anywhere near that good.

The fact that she didn't write the speech offends you greatly doesn't it?
I don't remember you having a problem with this with either of the Clintons, or Gore or Kerry.

Is that really the only talking point you've got?



Why?

What about the Republican party screams Christian?

Other than the rhetoric, what is there?

It's about Abortion, not Christianity. It's no secret that people vote for the team they think they will address their issue. For those that desire an end to abortion, there (unfortunately) is only one game in town.

The vast vast majority, he does.

Well we'll take his word for it then. Though one would expect he'd remember more of the words to his own writing when the teleprompter goes on the blink. ;)

[Bergermeister]

I thought she did a competent job at speech making. I think she obviously lied about a few things...more so than the Dems did...but that's about par I think.

But all in all a very good job. Game changer? Perhaps. She plays to Republican strengths and can motivate the base to actually come out this year to vote which was in doubt before McCain picked her.

Independents? We'll see.


The speech was written by Matthew Scully, speechwriter to GW Bush from 2001 to 2004.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin;_ylt=AhrFfo_.RfvA6gbgBLtV6V.s0NUE

McSame.

[vinea]

I was just teasing you there..


Yes, I know, but I haven't voted for a republican presidential candidate in a decade. It would make sense to switch but I ain't gonna. I did support Ehrlich...that was a pretty cool win.

Hell, I voted for Bob Dole (complete lost cause) and I'm not voting for McCain.

[Frank777]

Frank777 supports all of the above. When it comes to God, he's as ultra-conservative as they come.

This is a personal attack, in that you know fully well I have never advocated book-burning or the banning of contraceptives in any thread on AI. I would agree that there is a place for decency laws in any modern society.

[Fellowship]

At the end of the day where I stand is as follows:

While part of me wants to like Palin. I don't. While she is intelligent, seemingly a family oriented person she was dishonest in parts of her speech and I just can't vote a ticket with McCain and Palin on the ticket. Sure I realize McCain has a history of serving the country and I admire him for that. I do not subscribe to his ideas for this country. I do not believe in wedging people into "country first" or something less. This is too much patriotic / nationalistic manipulation for my taste. I too question how this ticket would deal with the Georgia / Russia issue, the Iran issue etc. How long in Iraq??

I also can not support the Obama / Biden ticket as I do not support their views on abortion and energy credits or for that matter UN worldwide taxes.

I will sit this one out.

Fellows

[Frank777]

In all fairness.... the Republicans aren't exactly unanimous (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-republican-moderatessep04,0,7572779.story) on their abortion stance, either.....

No they're not. And any party that bans people from speaking out at a convention because of their beliefs on the issue isn't worth joining.

Pro-choicer Rudy Giuliani was front and centre on the platform tonight.
Pro-life Democrats rarely enjoy such privilege. And pro-lifers notice these things.

[tonton]

At the end of the day where I stand is as follows:

While part of me wants to like Palin. I don't. While she is intelligent, seemingly a family oriented person she was dishonest in parts of her speech and I just can't vote a ticket with McCain and Palin on the ticket. Sure I realize McCain has a history of serving the country and I admire him for that. I do not subscribe to his ideas for this country. I do not believe in wedging people into "country first" or something less. This is too much patriotic / nationalistic manipulation for my taste. I too question how this ticket would deal with the Georgia / Russia issue, the Iran issue etc. How long in Iraq??

I also can not support the Obama / Biden ticket as I do not support their views on abortion and energy credits or for that matter UN worldwide taxes.

I will sit this one out.

Fellows

I stand corrected, and once again, I apologize to you, Fellows, for underestimating you. Vote for Paul if you can stand by his fiscal policies. I staunchly oppose Paul's policies, but I also support the viability of a third-party candidate, and would like to see Paul get plenty of votes (which won't matter in the general election this time around).

Sorry to you, too, Frank. I know religion has an important place in your life, and I respect that. I just tend to disagree with you that it has a place in politics, and I also think that there are much more important issues at stake here, hence my STRONG distaste for wedge issue voters.

[vinea]

Ah yes, the secret agenda. Evangelicals are direct descendents of those who were pushed out of their own country because of a state religion, but we secretly harbour to take over the country and throw all the liberals into Alaska (okay, the Palin thing stops that image from working...)


Explain Dominionists and Joel's Army. An offshoot of the Pentacostal/Charismatic segment of Christianity with a solid evangelical following.

I may be Christian but I have zero desire to live under a Dominonist Presidency any more than I want to live under Sharia law. IF she is one, then we'd be a heartbeat away and that's too damn close.

[Frank777]

At the end of the day where I stand is as follows:

While part of me wants to like Palin. I don't. While she is intelligent, seemingly a family oriented person she was dishonest in parts of her speech and I just can't vote a ticket with McCain and Palin on the ticket. Sure I realize McCain has a history of serving the country and I admire him for that. I do not subscribe to his ideas for this country. I do not believe in wedging people into "country first" or something less. This is too much patriotic / nationalistic manipulation for my taste. I too question how this ticket would deal with the Georgia / Russia issue, the Iran issue etc. How long in Iraq??

I also can not support the Obama / Biden ticket as I do not support their views on abortion and energy credits or for that matter UN worldwide taxes.

I will sit this one out.

Fellows

Yeah, that's gonna happen. :no:

Can someone point to exactly where Palin was dishonest with her speech?

She referenced her position on the Bridge to Nowhere, but she did change positions on the issue later so that's not a lie. She said she lowered taxes, and she did. She just didn't say she had also raised others.

In other words, she a typical politician. And if this speech is any indication, she's going to be more than typical.

90% of the outrage here is that Obamania has been pushed back a bit, despite the fact that the Democrats have thrown everything they could at this woman for five days.

I still think the Democratic ticket will prevail in November, but this is fun to watch.

[Fellowship]

I stand corrected, and once again, I apologize to you, Fellows, for underestimating you. Vote for Paul if you can stand by his fiscal policies.



No way,, No need to apologize. We live in a fast paced world with late breaking news 24/7 and it does not help that I send out many signals of like and dislike. I admit I can be confusing so please know there is no need to apologize.

I am not voting for Paul either despite earlier saying I would write him in. (told you I am confusing) He is not running nor is he balanced all around despite me liking some things about him.

For me this is one election I will not partake in. I can't subscribe to the wars of the right wing nor some of the things of the left wing.

Respectfully,

Fellows

[hardeeharhar]

Not divisive, truthful. Abortion has become an industry in North America. Hundreds of millions of dollars, much of it public money, are used to promote, procure and even subsidize the practice. This is an industry, and it has powerful and well connected backers.

And don't even get me started on those who see the reduction and slow extermination of minorities as a public policy objective in itself. Like the modern-day disciples of Margaret Sanger.

Pro-abortion is accurate. Deal with it.

No. I will not accept your jeering proposition. You are ethically wrong here, completely, particularly since you have demonstrated no desire to actually fix the problem of unwanted pregnancies. Your view and the view of every single one-issue pro-lifer fails to recognize that this isn't about abortions. It is about stopping unwanted pregnancies from occurring. You stop those, you stop abortions, but you don't have any interest in stopping unwanted pregnancies. For some strange reason you DON'T CARE about the child that would result from an unwanted pregnancy.



Ah yes, the secret agenda. Evangelicals are direct descendents of those who were pushed out of their own country because of a state religion, but we secretly harbour to take over the country and throw all the liberals into Alaska (okay, the Palin thing stops that image from working...)


You don't know the history very well do you? Sure there was a state religion, but it was secular by comparison to the puritanical ancestors to Evangelicals. They were kicked out because they wanted to decrease the freedoms of other individuals to bring them more in line with the bible. Of course, the REAL reason we have religious freedom in this country is because of the Quakers, who wanted no influence from the government on their free exercise, were also a thorn but for very very different reasons. So you will excuse me if I don't believe you hold the best interests of separation of Church and State to heart; after all you are a direct descendent to people who believed the Anglican Church wasn't rigid enough. (suck it, in other words)

In the meantime, liberals are hauling Christians before "Human Rights Commissions" and ordering them to recant.

Recant what exactly? There are nasty sects of Christianity doing nasty things. Being termed a Christian doesn't make you a good person.

Honestly, I didn't expect her to be anywhere near that good.

Color me shocked. Seemingly, the people who liked her expected nothing. The people who thought she did just ok expected more. It is strange that it separates completely opposite to the political ideologies of those involved.

The fact that she didn't write the speech offends you greatly doesn't it?

Actually it does. People attribute these words to her. In academics that is called plagiarism. And while speechwriters are a fixed entity in politics their ink should be more apparent.


Is that really the only talking point you've got?

I already addressed that the talk was flat. Her delivery disconnected. Her lies transparent. What else is there?



It's about Abortion, not Christianity. It's no secret that people vote for the team they think they will address their issue. For those that desire an end to abortion, there (unfortunately) is only one game in town.

How has 40 years of that worked out for Christians? Not well. Why? Perhaps because it isn't politically expedient for the Republican party to get rid of its one wedge issue?


Well we'll take his word for it then. Though one would expect he'd remember more of the words to his own writing when the teleprompter goes on the blink. ;)

Have you ever given a 40 minute speech without prompts?

[FormerLurker]

The speech was written by Matthew Scully, speechwriter to GW Bush from 2001 to 2004.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin;_ylt=AhrFfo_.RfvA6gbgBLtV6V.s0NUE

McSame.

Headline:
Palin casts herself as Washington outsider


Reality:
Palin's speech was "written by George Bush's speechwriter and sounds exactly like the same divisive, partisan attacks we've heard from George Bush for the last eight years." The speech was written by Matthew Scully, who met Palin for the first time last week.


Delivering a speech written by Matthew Scully casts her as a Washington outsider who is a puppet of Washington insiders.

[Akumulator]

At the end of the day where I stand is as follows....

...I will sit this one out.

Fellows

At the end of THIS day is where you stand. In a day or two you be back to supporting one of the candidates. You are politically bipolar Fellows.

[tonton]

She said she lowered taxes, and she did. She just didn't say she had also raised others.

:D

Signature time.

[Fellowship]

At the end of THIS day is where you stand. In a day or two you be back to supporting one of the candidates. You are politically bipolar Fellows.

Trust me I understand why you say this. But I have decided not to subscribe to the wars and trumped up plastic patriotism of the right nor do I subscribe to parts of the platform of the left. I have decided not to bother to write in Paul while I like some things about him he is not balanced nor is he running.

I will sit this one out.

Fellows

[FormerLurker]

No they're not. And any party that bans people from speaking out at a convention because of their beliefs on the issue isn't worth joining.


Really?

Someone was banned from speaking last week because of their pro-life views? WHO?

Isn't it possible that there are simply more pro-choice Republicans, than there are pro-life Democrats?

Pro-choicer Rudy Giuliani was front and centre on the platform tonight.


Did he make any mention of his pro-choice position while he was on the platform?

[tonton]

Trust me I understand why you say this. But I have decided not to subscribe to the wars and trumped up plastic patriotism of the right nor do I subscribe to parts of the platform of the left. I have decided not to bother to write in Paul while I like some things about him he is not balanced nor is he running.

I will sit this one out.

Fellows

Fellows, as I said, I support improving the viability of third-party candidates. If you can't vote for Paul, I'm sure you can find a write-in to support, even if it is your local pastor. One thing worse than a "wasted-vote" is a "non-vote". I'd like to see the write-in numbers high in this election.

[Frank777]

Okay, so even fewer people believe that Fellowship will stick with his choice than those who believe that Palin swam across the continental divide and backslapped Putin. I'm glad it's not just me.

I've been on AI for years, and I remember the drama of the Clinton wars, the (first) Bush bashing, the Purple Heart election and all that came inbetween.

I cannot for the life of me remember anyone, at any time, on either side, ever having a problem with the use of political speechwriters.

Is there a reason behind the very, very, sudden Democratic disdain for the craft of speechmaking?

This is weak guys, and very transparent.

[FormerLurker]

Trust me I understand why you say this. But I have decided not to subscribe to the wars and trumped up plastic patriotism of the right nor do I subscribe to parts of the platform of the left.
Fellows

I can't help but notice that you specifically name the problems you have with the right, but for the left you only say "nor do I subscribe to parts of the platform of the left."

Is there any reason for the discrepancy? Can you be more specific about the "parts" you object to on the left?

[hardeeharhar]

I think the republicans need to be careful here. While they clearly need to energize their base to even come close to winning. They run the risk of drawing the ire of an entire subset of Obama supporters that might not have ordinarily made it out to the polls in November. Palin's speech looks more like politics as usual than it does change and that i think is my last thought for the evening.

[Frank777]

Really?

Someone was banned from speaking last week because of their pro-life views? WHO?

Isn't it possible that there are simply more pro-choice Republicans, than there are pro-life Democrats?

Sorry. Didn't see this as the thread is moving fast.

Casey Jr. did get a chance to speak. His father was not allowed to speak at a previous convention because of his pro-life views. It was a very good move, that has now been undercut by the raft of pro-choice ads unleashed in the wake of Palin's rapid rise.

That's the Democrats. One step forward. One step back.

Isn't it possible that there are simply more pro-choice Republicans, than there are pro-life Democrats?

I seriously doubt that. The GOP has lately been a bigger tent, but the Democrats have plenty of pro-lifers at ground level. It's just hard to..um..crack that ceiling the radicals have erected.

[tonton]

I can't help but notice that you specifically name the problems you have with the right, but for the left you only say "nor do I subscribe to parts of the platform of the left."

Is there any reason for the discrepancy? Can you be more specific about the "parts" you object to on the left?

He has already said so specifically. He admires a lot of things about Obama. But he can't stand for his pro-choice position. He's also shown indications that he buys into the conjecture that Democrats tax excessively and spend irresponsibly (despite Obama's clear platform position on the issue that he is going to cut taxes for 95% of Americans and do his best to control spending).

[Frank777]

I think the republicans need to be careful here. While they clearly need to energize their base to even come close to winning. They run the risk of drawing the ire of an entire subset of Obama supporters that might not have ordinarily made it out to the polls in November. Palin's speech looks more like politics as usual than it does change and that i think is my last thought for the evening.

I think the Democrats need to be similarly careful.

When Palin says Obama isn't fit to lead, sending your spokesperson out afterward to say "I don't approve of your speechwriter" isn't a proper rebuttal.

[tonton]

Sorry. Didn't see this as the thread is moving fast.

Casey Jr. did get a chance to speak. His father was not allowed to speak at a previous convention because of his pro-life views. It was a very good move, that has now been undercut by the raft of pro-choice ads unleashed in the wake of Palin's rapid rise.

That's the Democrats. One step forward. One step back.

That's GOP apologists/Dem critics for you. One lie forward. One step backtrack.

And with that, I've GOT to get out of the house and take care of some chores...

[Gilsch]

This is weak guys, and very transparent.

Ironic.

[Gilsch]

A lot of "inaccuracies" in that speech. Dissecting this speech and "correcting" her "inaccuracies won't be pretty.

[Bergermeister]

A lot of "inaccuracies" in that speech. Dissecting this speech and "correcting" her "inaccuracies won't be pretty.

The media had been reporting the correct answers since the previous day! Anybody who was up-to-date on the info knew what was wrong with each step; the Republicans seem to know most people don't bother reading the paper (or digesting the info) and will play to the ignorance.

[FormerLurker]

Sorry. Didn't see this as the thread is moving fast.
No problem - I've gotten a bit lost in it a few times myself.

Casey Jr. did get a chance to speak.
Yes, and as Shawn pointed out, he specifically gave mention to his minority position RE abortion..

You haven't answered my previous question - did Guiliani speak of his minority position?

His father was not allowed to speak at a previous convention because of his pro-life views.
His FATHER? How long ago was that? Might it be a bit long to hold a grudge as severe as the one you expressed?

It was a very good move, that has now been undercut by the raft of pro-choice ads unleashed in the wake of Palin's rapid rise.


I guess I'll have to take your word for it, since this raft of pro-choice ads seems to have missed me completely. What ads have you seen, and where did you see them?

Lastly - are the Republicans mollifying their minority opinion holders by holding back on their pro-life message at all?

[tonton]

I guess I'll have to take your word for it, since this raft of pro-choice ads seems to have missed me completely. What ads have you seen, and where did you see them?

He's right.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13103.html

[Gilsch]

Been reading some of the "corrections" of Palin's speech and it's amazing how many lies they managed to squeeze into it. Some of those lies are so blatant it will be fun watching her taken to task on them.

Even more amazing is the gullability level of some people "nearby". D'Oh! :no:

By the way, did McCain look old on stage or what?

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/afp/20080904/capt.cps.nmh86.040908062229.photo04.photo.default-512x424.jpg?x=400&y=331&q=85&sig=NbLaXIEc8cBKIu3cujBsDg--

[Laughing Gull]

Trust me I understand why you say this. But I have decided not to subscribe to the wars and trumped up plastic patriotism of the right nor do I subscribe to parts of the platform of the left. I have decided not to bother to write in Paul while I like some things about him he is not balanced nor is he running.

I will sit this one out.

Fellows


You can sit out the election, but you can't sit out the administration. Not voting is not a solution.

[jimmac]

You can sit out the election, but you can't sit out the administration. Not voting is not a solution.

That's pretty much on the mark. There are people who sat out the election both times Bush was elected. Did they really enjoy those 8 years? Because they helped bring them about. They can rationalize away but that's really the bottom line.

[jimmac]

Well here's what the analysts think :

Hot mic catches GOP strategists trashing Palin pick

A sample : Noonan, a Wall Street Journal columnist and former speechwriter for Ronald Reagan, and Murphy, a campaign strategist and onetime aide to John McCain, can both be heard expressing disbelief with the pick of Palin after they apparently thought they were in a commercial break.

“I come out of the blue swing-state governor world, Engler, Whitman, Thompson, Mitt Romney,” Murphy said during the mishap which has since been posted on YouTube. Murphy later flatly says of the pick, "It's not going to work."

Noonan is heard going even further, saying of the presidential race, "It's over."



Not an overwhelming endorsement.

[vinea]

That's pretty much on the mark. There are people who sat out the election both times Bush was elected. Did they really enjoy those 8 years? Because they helped bring them about. They can rationalize away but that's really the bottom line.

Yes. Which is why I'll stay a Republican but volunteer for Obama.

Maybe 2012 we'll have a nominee I can get behind. I really wish Snowe had run this year. By 2012 she'll probably be too old at 65.

Guiliani did well. I bet he'd feel pumped about his chances in 2012 except he'll be 68.

[SDW2001]

I think it's amazing how much the conservative base thinks she did great simply because her speechwriters repeated the talking points.

Um...how does that contrast with the Obama speech? He parroted 50 years of liberal rhetoric: Tax "the rich," the GOP hates you, the last eight years have been hell on earth, more social spending, national healthcare, blame America for the world's ills. The list goes on.



Meanwhile, reality is another beast. She was flat. She was not happy. She was not enthusiastic. She was unoriginal, and the points made were not honest.

Uh...it's not her personality to do fucking cartwheels across the stage. Her delivery was almost universally praised...even by those who disagree with the message.

SERIOUSLY?

Her delivery was somewhere between PTA mom, and small-town mayor. Literally not in the same "ballpark" as Obama's.

Again...there are a whole load of folks that disagree with you.

Exactly.

She was more than deceitful about Obama's proposals (I think it may work because tax reducing democrat is a national oxymoron). She was much more than more than decietful about her OWN record.

She was introducing herself to the national stage and she came off unsympathetic. People, I think, will on the whole find her slightly repulsive.

Be specific. What did she lie about? As for how people react to her, the opposite of your prediction seems to be coming to pass.

Yes. Which is why I'll stay a Republican but volunteer for Obama.

Maybe 2012 we'll have a nominee I can get behind. I really wish Snowe had run this year. By 2012 she'll probably be too old at 65.

Guiliani did well. I bet he'd feel pumped about his chances in 2012 except he'll be 68.

Snowe? Good lord. What do you find attractive about her?

[Fellowship]

You can sit out the election, but you can't sit out the administration. Not voting is not a solution.

The reason I would choose not to vote is simply because I could not endorse either side due to a major issue (as I see it) which I cannot get behind. I simply would not be endorsing either side. It is my business who I endorse if anyone just as we all have that right.

Now it is obvious that one of the two tickets will wind up in office and when that happens I will make the best of whoever is my President.

Fellows

[Fellowship]

I can't help but notice that you specifically name the problems you have with the right, but for the left you only say "nor do I subscribe to parts of the platform of the left."

Is there any reason for the discrepancy? Can you be more specific about the "parts" you object to on the left?

I disagree with the energy credits (taxes) that will be sold by an Obama admin. I disagree with his weakness on the life issue to speak up for the unborn. I am not sure income redistribution will grow the economy which is what his tax structure pretty much is (income redistribution). I disagree with raising the capital gains tax and the death tax. I believe the government needs to spend less more than it needs to tax more. Plain and simple. btw republicans and democrats fail at understanding this basic principle so neither get my vote universally.

Fellows

[Bergermeister]

Be specific. What did she lie about? As for how people react to her, the opposite of your prediction seems to be coming to pass.



Snowe? Good lord. What do you find attractive about her?

Hmmm... As I have been saying, the answer was out for everybody to see long before she made the claim tonight, and thus just made her look pretty bad by clinging to the story.

Sep 1:
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN3125537020080901?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10112

Aug 31:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/31/AR2008083102017.html

Interesting the the great speech writer didn't bother to check that the media had already found this/ Hope he didn't get paid too much. Or else they jsut don' have anything else to say, so they hope that by repeating it ad nauseum that J6P will buy it.

[mydo]

Fellowship is basically a hardcore republican that's against Bush and the war.

You're a flip flopper Fellowship.

[Fellowship]

Fellowship is basically a hardcore republican that's against Bush and the war.

You're a flip flopper Fellowship.

Call me what you must. I would suggest that what I am not is a voter to be counted on by either side. My vote is much harder to be earned than by say...

sold out believers of a given party.

I am far pickier than one team saying give me Coke and the other team saying give me Pepsi.

I am one to criticize the corn syrup, to analyze the flavor, to question the ingredient used for a preservative (sodium benzoate) and on and on.

I am a tough cookie to please and I am ok with that.

Fellows

[Bergermeister]

I don't believe that we have to be in group A or B or C or Z. Different parts of different platforms and candidates can be appealing, and as we watch and learn our opinions on who is best can evolve.

A scary thing to me is a person who says, I'm in Group G, Candidate Y is in Group G, I support Candidate Y before examining him or her.

Read a blog on BBC tonight by a Republican woman who says she is now voting Obama after watching the same old, same old from the Republicans. This is a thinker. There will also be people who go the other way.

[mydo]

But that's what many many many voters do. They basically straight punch democrat or republican.

[mydo]

...

Read a blog on BBC tonight by a Republican woman who says she is now voting Obama after watching the same old, same old from the Republicans. This is a thinker. There will also be people who go the other way.

If someone does flip the other way would they also be a thinker? You know, like, after looking at Obama's record they don't see any actual impressive accomplishments in office they decided to vote for McCain ...

[Gilsch]

Yes. Which is why I'll stay a Republican but volunteer for Obama.

Maybe 2012 we'll have a nominee I can get behind. I really wish Snowe had run this year. By 2012 she'll probably be too old at 65.

Guiliani did well. I bet he'd feel pumped about his chances in 2012 except he'll be 68.

Why would you want to "stay a Republican"? Why not simply become an Independent not married to any one Party and take it one election at a time?

As of a few days ago, the "new" Republican party has just moved even more to the angry right with Palin. Wasn't it obvious from last night?

[Bergermeister]

If someone does flip the other way would they also be a thinker? You know, like, after looking at Obama's record they don't see any actual impressive accomplishments in office they decided to vote for McCain ...

In some cases (other elections), maybe yes, but with the McCain ticket, no. My point was that hopefully people will think and make rational decisions.

Alas, you are correct that many don't.

[BRussell]

But that's what many many many voters do. They basically straight punch democrat or republican.If they do it because one party fits their ideology better than the other, that makes a helluva lot more sense to me than what most "independents" and "swing voters" do: Just pick based on personality and who they "like" rather than anything having to do with government.

[Frank777]

If they do it because one party fits their ideology better than the other, that makes a helluva lot more sense to me than what most "independents" and "swing voters" do: Just pick based on personality and who they "like" rather than anything having to do with government.

Excellent point.


By the way, now that Palin's speech has rocked the RNC and just about everywhere else, has anyone given a thought as to how badly McCain's going to come across tonight trying to top that?

[hardeeharhar]

Rocked who? Independents hated it.

McCain will do much better among this group- the group he needs to win.
Moderate Republicans as well...

It seems that she failed to address fully her qualifications to be VP, and her questioning of Obama wasn't viewed as particularly new or legitimate -- I think the snarkiness/condescension has come back to bite her in the ass... but we'll see.

[BRussell]

come back to bite her in the ass

I'm really tired of these sexist attacks against Sarah Palin. The Hillary voters will see this and vote for McCain because of it!

[hardeeharhar]

I'm really tired of these sexist attacks against Sarah Palin. The Hillary voters will see this and vote for McCain because of it!
Oh god.

I do apologize. I am not a sexist. I have women friends.

[Bergermeister]

I'm really tired of these sexist attacks against Sarah Palin. The Hillary voters will see this and vote for McCain because of it!

I think the Daily show pretty much sums this up in their post today.

Hear from Rove, O'Reilly, Pfotenhauer

It is hilarious how foolish these people are.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

[Bergermeister]

Very nice article here about Palin being Obama's shadow:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/obama-and-the-palin-effec_b_123943.html

[BRussell]

Very nice article here about Palin being Obama's shadow:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/obama-and-the-palin-effec_b_123943.html

Egad. Deepak Chopra should never, ever be linked to. Ever.

[SDW2001]

Hmmm... As I have been saying, the answer was out for everybody to see long before she made the claim tonight, and thus just made her look pretty bad by clinging to the story.

Sep 1:
http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN3125537020080901?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=10112

Aug 31:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/31/AR2008083102017.html

Interesting the the great speech writer didn't bother to check that the media had already found this/ Hope he didn't get paid too much. Or else they jsut don' have anything else to say, so they hope that by repeating it ad nauseum that J6P will buy it.

Oh good lord. That's a lie? This is the best you can do?

But that's what many many many voters do. They basically straight punch democrat or republican.

This is arrogant presumption on your part. Do you personally know voters that do that, particularly in a Presidential election? If not, could you post some data? The reason I call it arrogant presumption instead of just an unsupported claim is that you're clearly implying that people like you know better.


Fellowship bats for both teams.

You know what I mean.

:p

And you would know...how? ;)

Rocked who? Independents hated it.

McCain will do much better among this group- the group he needs to win.

Both candidates need independents. But one cannot go after independents at the expense of losing the party base. McCain could have done just that if he picked a Ridge or a Lieberman.

[progmac]

Palin's speech was painful to watch. And I'm a lover of a good speech. It was good in the same way that Bush Jr's early speeches were good -- no real charisma or ideas, just an overdone "down home" twang and a variety of buzz words.

I found it insulting that she even compared herself to Obama. It's like a vocational school comparing itself to Harvard.

[vinea]

I think the Daily show pretty much sums this up in their post today.

Hear from Rove, O'Reilly, Pfotenhauer

It is hilarious how foolish these people are.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

You taunt me with flash video.

[Flounder]

You taunt me with flash video.


We don't need your stinking iPhones here! :p

[BRussell]

It's like a vocational school comparing itself to Harvard.

Actually North Idaho College comparing itself to Harvard.

[Bergermeister]

Oh good lord. That's a lie? This is the best you can do?



This is arrogant presumption on your part. Do you personally know voters that do that, particularly in a Presidential election? If not, could you post some data? The reason I call it arrogant presumption instead of just an unsupported claim is that you're clearly implying that people like you know better.




And you would know...how? ;)



Both candidates need independents. But one cannot go after independents at the expense of losing the party base. McCain could have done just that if he picked a Ridge or a Lieberman.

ABC News is picking up a few of Palin's, err, "bending of the truth"'s:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

The photo of her on the page has a great smirk.

[trumptman]

Made me laugh out loud.

http://ibdeditorials.com/IMAGES/CARTOONS/toon090308.gif

[Gilsch]

I think the Daily show pretty much sums this up in their post today.

Hear from Rove, O'Reilly, Pfotenhauer

It is hilarious how foolish these people are.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=184086&title=sarah-palin-gender-card

Yeah. It really is ridiculous. :lol:

[hardeeharhar]

Be specific. What did she lie about? As for how people react to her, the opposite of your prediction seems to be coming to pass.

Hell, why don't I do one better and give you a link to a non-partisan website that catalogs such things:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html

[trumptman]

Hell, why don't I do one better and give you a link to a non-partisan website that catalogs such things:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/gop_convention_spin_part_ii.html

I don't think Obama wants anything associated with Annenberg to be brought up for the remainder of the election.:lol: