Official Presidential Debate Thread

[midwinter]

So the first debate is over. I thought it was remarkably restrained and fairly even. What do you all think?

[groverat]

I think McCain's anger issues are troubling. For a man of his age, the immaturity is startling. He's bitchy, snarky, and lecturing.

These are two professional talkers, so neither is going to hurt himself in this kind of format. Obama was solid but unremarkable. McCain is too easily flustered and way too emotionally fragile. He has obvious problems controlling himself.

[hardeeharhar]

I think even is correct, if you are a pundit paying close attention to the things said.

I did get bored towards the end and distracted by the utter lack of anything interesting coming out of either candidates mouths. McCain may have won the foreign policy half, but it was a pyrrhic victory since Obama looked and sounded like anything but someone who is naive (not to mention the fact that the Kissenger exchange fell completely into Obama's hands -- it is telling that insta-polls suggest that Obama won every encounter especially since he was offering more insights into FUTURE policy than McCain). Obama also projected a bigger picture sense of the world than McCain.

Regardless, even though McCain's camp has already begun distributing a video of Obama's agreements with McCain, the problem with that route is that it scuttles the only real chance they have of winning.

I give the even keeled Obama due credit for not tanking like the naive, green Senator McCain's camp has set him up to be. On the other hand, McCain did nothing to discourage views that he is intemperate and angry.

[FormerLurker]

I find it rather interesting that, for all the flack AN takes for suppressing political discussion, there was MUCH more activity about tonight's debate over there than there was over here.

http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=30305


In Before Ban....
:D

[FloorJack]

Tie which means Obama wins. I'm not sure that people are impressed with McCain's name/place dropping. He could have been more affective with it. No major scores for either. I'm surprised that McCain managed to work "bitter" in there.

[FormerLurker]

Tie which means Obama wins. I'm not sure that people are impressed with McCain's name/place dropping. He could have been more affective with it. No major scores for either. I'm surprised that McCain managed to work "bitter" in there.

No offense intended... but if you are calling it a narrow win for Obama, then it must have been a BIG win for him.

[hardeeharhar]

Tie which means Obama wins. I'm not sure that people are impressed with McCain's name/place dropping. He could have been more affective with it. No major scores for either. I'm surprised that McCain managed to work "bitter" in there.
one of my pet peves ... effective... not affective.

edit: just so everyone knows, i don't ordinarily correct grammar because I find it obnoxious, but in this one instance, since the misuse of these words (affect/effect) bothers me greatly, I had to pull that trigger...

This isn't a personal statement about FloorJack.

[Gilsch]

Boring. I thought McCain came close to losing his "composure" a couple of times.

Within the boring context I thought he did well. Obama landed the best punches though, albeit there weren't many of them.

Not much to give points for, but I score it 117-113 Obama. ;)

The polls are going for Obama big time. Both the internets polls and the serious ones. Even the Luntz guy undecided thing on Fox went for Obama big time. "A lot more for Barack Obama here".

Ouch. Cut his mike!!!

Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wup4nsIWe8A&eurl

[Akumulator]

I'd tilt the debate slightly in Obama's favor. I think he held his own, he was calm, collected and rational... whereas McCain seemed slightly perturbed throughout it.

One thing that caught my attention online today that bothered me, that I didn't hear on tv, was that the KKK was in attendance (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1844872,00.html). You know, even though it's the deep south there in Mississippi... I really honestly would have thought that we would have been done with this shit by now. I can't believe that the clan still exists.

Let's get Obama elected and move beyond race for christ's sake. The time is now to be on the side of history. We're better than that. For all those "undecided" people who can't stomach the thought of voting for a black man, get over yourselves. Fucking assholes.

[Northgate]

This was supposed to be McCain's debate to win. This was the Foreign Policy Debate. And Obama held his ground and exceeded expectations in this area. And because of that this is a semi-big win for Obama. Obama could've performed stronger and hit harder during the first thirty minutes but didn't yield much ground to McCain. Obama wins big on style and looking presidential. McCain's obvious contempt for Obama and his dismissive minimizing tone didn't read well to viewers and pundits.

[Flounder]

I've read a couple accounts that thought McCain scored well on the meeting with foreign leaders thing, but I just don't see it.

McCain was looking pissed as hell, going on about "it's dangerous, it's dangerous" in the face of eminently reasonable points.

[Gilsch]

Did McCain say "horseshit"?? :lol: :lol:

You decide:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1rZBmk0DYU&eurl

[Flounder]

This was supposed to be McCain's debate to win. This was the Foreign Policy Debate. And Obama held his ground and exceeded expectations in this area. And because of that this is a semi-big win for Obama. Obama could've performed stronger and hit harder during the first thirty minutes but didn't yield much ground to McCain. Obama wins big on style and looking presidential. McCain's obvious contempt for Obama and his dismissive minimizing tone didn't read well to viewers and pundits.

He certainly got livelier as the debate went on, but at the beginning McCain looked incredibly old and tired. It reminded me a bit of Bob Dole.

[hardeeharhar]

Did McCain say "horseshit"?? :lol: :lol:

You decide:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1rZBmk0DYU&eurl
No... At the time I thought he said of course, of course...

[Akumulator]

It does seem like he said Horse Shit the second time, but of course the first. Who knows... not too important.

[FormerLurker]

Did McCain say "horseshit"?? :lol: :lol:

You decide:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1rZBmk0DYU&eurl

I thought he said, "Horshack"....

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f140/daisylastaise/Horshack.jpg

[Gilsch]

It does seem like he said Horse Shit the second time, but of course the first. Who knows... not too important.

It could've been huge. For a guy well known to have a short temper to lose it like that in the middle of a Presidential debate would have been the end of his campaign.

[tonton]

Wonder what SDW is saying over at MacNN regarding the debate... before I go over and check, I am guessing his analysis will use the words, "clear victory", "slam dunk" or "massacre", in favor of McCain, of course. Let's go and see...

[tonton]

Here we go...

McCain... started firing on all cylinders......I think McCain pretty much won the remaining rounds...Obama got clobbered...McCain hammered him...McCain Wack-A-Moled him...Obama pulled a Gore...was disrespectful...He looked slightly frustrated sometimes...He got knocked off balance...Obama's answer was worse...Obama...did the old bait and switch...Obama made some transparent attacks that didn't come off well...McCain...was more forthright...was authentic and direct...scored big...I thought McCain won...

Round I: McCain

Well, not the usual bizarro world I expected, but still pretty impressive spin there.

[tonton]

I also apologize for thinking FloorJack was SDW. There is some speculation about who he is, and that it might be another longtime banned member, but I'll concede that without proof, we can't do anything about it.

[hardeeharhar]

I also apologize for thinking FloorJack was SDW. There is some speculation about who he is, and that it might be another longtime banned member, but I'll concede that without proof, we can't do anything about it.

floorjack isn't sdw, lundy has told me as much.

[pfflam]

I gotta say, McCain was a much better debater than I thought he would be. I was sort of expecting him to have the same debating skills he has as an orator, in which case it would have been hillariously one sided.

But all in all, I think McCain managed to play the emotion strings in typical Republican manner, tugging on all the usual big crowd swayers: veterans, danger, heroism etc. I think that if you are inclined to like that stuff knee-refexively then McCain won. He also said some things that needed response that didn't get them, such as suggesting that Obama actually was glad thngs went badly in Iraq, -the way he slipped that in was terrible

[franksargent]

Did McCain say "horseshit"?? :lol: :lol:

You decide:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1rZBmk0DYU&eurl

He did, twice even. 8-) Watch his mouth moving about 20 seconds into that clip.

He said horseshit once (barely audible), and then a second time (clearly audable).

The hot headed hot head shot off his hot headed mouth repeatedly throughout this debate. :smokey:

[Bergermeister]

I watched clips and agree that Obama comes off looking better. Good. He certainly held his ground when McCain was trying to play the experience card; Obama knew his stuff.

BTW, where are all the pro-McCain posts? I was certain we would get at least several.

[@_@ Artman]

...slightly re-written of my first impression...

Both candidates seem to be tools of this political system. What I mean is that they both are keeping the same political stance on many issues (Obama surprisingly ceded to McCain many times), but just have different ways of analyzing them and solving them. But they are both part of a system that is broken. Politically and as a nation. McCain's tool is a little duller and Obama's is much sharper.

In all, for me it didn't come down to who won the debate, but which one who may not be as backward thinking and detrimental as far as policy is concerned. Not just for America, but for the world.

And I think it's Obama.

Obama/Biden that is.

[@_@ Artman]

He did, twice even. 8-) Watch his mouth moving about 20 seconds into that clip.

He said horseshit once (barely audible), and then a second time (clearly audable).

The hot headed hot head shot off his hot headed mouth repeatedly throughout this debate. :smokey:

That's interesting. Because from the cameras recording what I was watching this was a longshot and not split screen. So I hadn't seen/heard that. I watched it from a local news feed from the University which in many ways was better than the overload of graphics and effects the larger media channels have.

I was less distracted. But that slipped by me.

McCain sure is pissed of Ahmadinejad. Why, I'll never know (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=wipe+israel+off+the+map&btnG=Google+Search&aq=1&oq=wipe+is).

[Bergermeister]

McCain did not mention the Middle Class.

[@_@ Artman]

McCain did not mention the Middle Class.

He can't see them from any of the windows from any of his eight houses. ;)

[jimmac]

I thought this was sort of mild mannered but as some have said McCain looked bothered. Obama's answers were more relaxed and self assured. The thing I've always liked about him. McCain seemed to rely more on the same old rhetoric. He even managed to call himself and Palin a " Maverick ".:rolleyes: His response to the Iraq questions seem hollow.
Obama was anything but naive. If you saw the NBC analysis afterward they pointed out several nonfacts stated by McCain like Eisenhower never offered to resign in a letter.:rolleyes: McCain seemed to love using those old stories ( that weren't quite true ) in his answers.

[jimmac]

McCain did not mention the Middle Class.

Yup!;)

[groverat]

Off-topic, but this thread (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=29327) makes me angry like John McCain. It's the least funny Internet shit meme ever just beaten to death over and over again.

"I CAN HAZ A SPELL SHIT WRONG CUZ IM A HMRLESS DOOSH!"

Just don't talk. The pictures are funny on their own. You don't paint something and then scrawl a fucking explanation onto the top of it. The cat is between cheeseburger buns, that's funny. You don't have to do a fucking cat voice, you just ruin it with your crap. And then some of the shit is so awfully conceived that it takes you a minute to figure out what that phonetic misspelling is supposed to even say.

Just to continue the rant, I had the misfortune of watching Mr. Brooks last night and they just can't shut up for more than a few minutes. The ONE time they let the viewer just figure it out is at the end of the film, and it's the best part of the movie. ("Oh hey here's a completely unnecessary imaginary character played by William Hurt that explains everything to you in painful detail because you are too stupid to figure out that Kevin Costner is a fucked-in-the-head killer, I hope you don't mind me insulting your intelligence, viewer!")

The production of LOLCat macros should be punished by law. Just shut the hell up and if it's good then it works.

[@_@ Artman]

This was supposed to be McCain's debate to win. This was the Foreign Policy Debate. And Obama held his ground and exceeded expectations in this area. And because of that this is a semi-big win for Obama. Obama could've performed stronger and hit harder during the first thirty minutes but didn't yield much ground to McCain. Obama wins big on style and looking presidential. McCain's obvious contempt for Obama and his dismissive minimizing tone didn't read well to viewers and pundits.

I squirmed during the whole "hunt down Osama Bin Laden" crap both were going on about, especially Obama. Unless he has intelligence reports we haven't seen of Bin Laden playing checkers with al-Zawahiri. Bin Laden's dead (http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2008/me_terror_02_11.asp).

But Obama could have made one point to solidify the Bin Laden terror organization's intent by reading one quote from Bin Laden in 2004 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Osama_bin_Laden_video)...

[It is] easy for us to provoke and bait this administration. All that we have to do is to send two mujahidin to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al-Qaida, in order to make the generals race there and cause America to suffer human, economic, and political losses ... This is in addition to our having experience in using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers, as we, alongside the mujahidin, bled Russia for 10 years, until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat.

Or...

"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy"

And that policy seems to have been carried out grandly. Obama made me very uncomfortable with his stance on Pakistan too. Whereas he'd want to sit across the table with almost any rogue leader or dictator, he'd rather have a tougher stance with a country that needs our support more than ever.

Like I said, both these candidates are tools of this political system. McCain's $2,500 make up covers up most of his 20 years of it. Obama's is less evident and may not have reached his core beliefs, but he shows signs of influence.

[franksargent]

Off-topic, but this thread (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=29327) makes me angry like John McCain. It's the least funny Internet shit meme ever just beaten to death over and over again.

"I CAN HAZ A SPELL SHIT WRONG CUZ IM A HMRLESS DOOSH!"

Just don't talk. The pictures are funny on their own. You don't paint something and then scrawl a fucking explanation onto the top of it. The cat is between cheeseburger buns, that's funny. You don't have to do a fucking cat voice, you just ruin it with your crap. And then some of the shit is so awfully conceived that it takes you a minute to figure out what that phonetic misspelling is supposed to even say.

Just to continue the rant, I had the misfortune of watching Mr. Brooks last night and they just can't shut up for more than a few minutes. The ONE time they let the viewer just figure it out is at the end of the film, and it's the best part of the movie. ("Oh hey here's a completely unnecessary imaginary character played by William Hurt that explains everything to you in painful detail because you are too stupid to figure out that Kevin Costner is a fucked-in-the-head killer, I hope you don't mind me insulting your intelligence, viewer!")

The production of LOLCat macros should be punished by law. Just shut the hell up and if it's good then it works.

http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/funny-pictures-banker-cat.jpg
I'm John McCain and I approved this message.

[@_@ Artman]

Please, let's not regress into another August LOL KAT debacle. I'll keep my pics to a minimum for now, only because it could bait others here.

[jimmac]

Here we go...



Well, not the usual bizarro world I expected, but still pretty impressive spin there.

:wow: Heh!

Well here's a little something for him to chew on.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/27/debate.poll/index.html

Round 1 in debates goes to Obama, poll says

[jimmac]

floorjack isn't sdw, lundy has told me as much.

Yes his responses don't quite match.

[midwinter]

40% of uncommitted voters who watched the debate tonight thought Barack Obama was the winner. 22% thought John McCain won. 38% saw it as a draw.

68% of these voters think Obama would make the right decision
about the economy. 41% think McCain would.
49% of these voters think Obama would make the right decisions about Iraq. 55% think McCain would.


Link (http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/cbs-news-takes-high-accuracy-approach/story.aspx?guid=%7BF4D1318C-BB77-47F8-A974-4729BB462F60%7D&dist=hppr).

[FloorJack]

CNN is the official debate headquarters of the Obama campaign.


Did anyone notice how Obama is for missile defense now. That's a head scratcher.


Too bad they didn't get to free trade. Maybe when the economic debate comes up they will.

[FormerLurker]

Off-topic, but this thread (http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=29327) makes me angry like John McCain. It's the least funny Internet shit meme ever just beaten to death over and over again.

"I CAN HAZ A SPELL SHIT WRONG CUZ IM A HMRLESS DOOSH!"

Just don't talk. The pictures are funny on their own. You don't paint something and then scrawl a fucking explanation onto the top of it. The cat is between cheeseburger buns, that's funny. You don't have to do a fucking cat voice, you just ruin it with your crap. And then some of the shit is so awfully conceived that it takes you a minute to figure out what that phonetic misspelling is supposed to even say.

Just to continue the rant, I had the misfortune of watching Mr. Brooks last night and they just can't shut up for more than a few minutes. The ONE time they let the viewer just figure it out is at the end of the film, and it's the best part of the movie. ("Oh hey here's a completely unnecessary imaginary character played by William Hurt that explains everything to you in painful detail because you are too stupid to figure out that Kevin Costner is a fucked-in-the-head killer, I hope you don't mind me insulting your intelligence, viewer!")

The production of LOLCat macros should be punished by law. Just shut the hell up and if it's good then it works.

If you'd care to give a list of other random internet shit that pisses you off, I'd be happy to start threads on them at AN just so you can rant about them here. I'm truly a giver at heart.

[Bergermeister]

CNN is the official debate headquarters of the Obama campaign.




The media is the problem, obviously.

Same goes for Palin: the media isn't treating her fairly.

That's why her quotes are so bad.

Can't wait until the next debate.

[Bergermeister]

A couple of god videos showing body language.

McCain demonstrate intense distaste for Obama and a complete lack of basic politeness.

Could someone throw a video together with Putin on the right instead of Obama? The way McCain smirks and giggles could cause an international disaster.

This guy is 72, but he has the maturity of a spoiled kindergartner.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/27/the-smirk-could-mccains-f_n_129831.html

For those of you who may not think huffington is good media, click and just watch the videos which are made from actual debate footage. They are very insightful into Johnny Mac.

Actually, I wonder if McCain isn't actually racist, or elitist.

[FloorJack]

It was interesting how McCain kept Obama on the defensive and didn't seem to bite at a single Obama worm. At times Obama looked like he was stuck at the kids' table for dinner.

[Bergermeister]

And the kid was the one not looking at his opponent... the one giggling by himself.

[hardeeharhar]

It was interesting how McCain kept Obama on the defensive and didn't seem to bite at a single Obama worm. At times Obama looked like he was stuck at the kids' table for dinner.
I am not sure that that is a bad thing in this context. McCain gave no vision for the future precisely because he was spending all of his time on the attack. When you look at content for a future administration, Obama wins.

[jimmac]

It was interesting how McCain kept Obama on the defensive and didn't seem to bite at a single Obama worm. At times Obama looked like he was stuck at the kids' table for dinner.

Funny I thought it was McSame that looked like a little kid. Kind of squirmy and smiling that little kid's smile. He seemed to vasilate between that and a senile old man bent on recalling stories that really didn't quite happen the way he told them.;)

And defensive? Ha! more like incredulous at the half truths and full blown fabrications. He always had to correct him. No matter though. Most people think Obama won this round as per multiple polls.

[jimmac]

CNN is the official debate headquarters of the Obama campaign.


Did anyone notice how Obama is for missile defense now. That's a head scratcher.


Too bad they didn't get to free trade. Maybe when the economic debate comes up they will.


This isn't the only place that has a poll that says this.

[jimmac]

The media is the problem, obviously.

Same goes for Palin: the media isn't treating her fairly.

That's why her quotes are so bad.

Can't wait until the next debate.

Yup! They're awfully afraid of something.:lol:

Next time will be more like watching someone thrown to the lions.;)

I can hear it now : " That lion should have been nicer to her instead of eating her all up like that! "

Never mind that that's what lions do indiscriminately.:lol:

[addabox]

John Cole (http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=11439) has an interesting post up about how deadly it is for the McCain campaign if the media narrative settles on "mean 'n grumpy."

He talks about how Al Gore fatally wounded himself with his heavy sighing and eye-rolling in his first debate with Bush. It became the meme, and despite having "won" the debate in early polls, it came to be perceived as a defining performance-- Al Gore is unlikeable. McCain, on the other hand, isn't even getting early good reviews-- most of what I'm seeing either talks about the relatively low key, no-knock-out-blows tone of the proceedings, or specifically mentions McCain's contemptuous demeanor. I haven't seen a single story that has anything particularly negative to say about Obama's performance, beside wondering if he could have been a little more aggressive.

That is just a sample of what is going to come. Look for the appearance of the following words in days to come: cranky, grumpy, crotchety, angry, mean, rude, sneering, snarling, contemptuous, off-putting, snide, boorish, and worst of all, not Presidential. SNL will probably drive the point home in a skit that will become the dominant narrative tonight, and McCain will become boxed in regarding his behavior in the second debate, much as Gore was unable to be as aggressive as he wanted in the second debate (I remember the running joke was that Gore had been medicated for the second debate). And if McCain does not tone down the contempt, it will simply feed the narrative. Or, if we are really lucky, as someone suggested in another thread, McCain will overcompensate and spend the entire time comically and creepily attempting to make eye contact with Obama (think Al Gore walking across the stage to stand next to Bush, and Bush looking at him as if to think “WTF are you doing?”).

This should be terrifying for the McCain campaign for two reasons. First, the base will not understand it. To them, a sneering, contemptuous jerk is a feature, not a bug. When they try to tone down McCain, it will turn off the diehards. Look at the reaction of the base to Palin’s RNC speech- they LOVED that she was, for all intents and purposes, nothing but an asshole the entire speech. They loved the “zingers” that were written for her. The rest of the country recoiled in horror, and Obama raised ten million the next 48 hours.

Second, they have spent the last few months angrily lashing out at the media, and these were the folks who used to love McCain. The campaign no longer allows McCain to talk to the media, and the Straight Talk Express is the “No Talk” Express these days. So for the bobbleheads that will be pushing the new narrative of the mean old McCain, the contrast is real. It wasn’t just the snarling you and I saw on tv. It was the contrast from the nice, friendly, have some BBQ here are your donuts McCain to the new one. They used to know him as their friend, now he is a jerk- the change to them is more dramatic than it is to us, and as such, the mean McCain narrative will be easier for them to adopt and pass along.

I think it's too early to say, but if he's right, McCain just blew it big time. I love the line "To them, a sneering, contemptuous jerk is a feature, not a bug."

[midwinter]

It looks like the theme of the day on the teevee is "what's up with mccain not looking at obama?" And that is not a good thing for McCain on the day after the debate.

[addabox]

It looks like the theme of the day on the teevee is "what's up with mccain not looking at obama?" And that is not a good thing for McCain on the day after the debate.

Yep. Looks like it's becoming McCain's sigh. Once the media have a peg to hang a narrative on, it's hard to get them off it; "grumpy and pissed off" is not a great identity to carry into the last 5 weeks of the election.

[Gilsch]

Yep. Looks like it's becoming McCain's sigh. Once the media have a peg to hang a narrative on, it's hard to get them off it; "grumpy and pissed off" is not a great identity to carry into the last 5 weeks of the election.

It was bizarre. I can already see him smiling his little yellow teeth while staring at Obama on the next debate. I really think not looking at Obama helped him avoid a meltdown though.

[groverat]

It's kind of disturbing to think that a potential POTUS can't even look at people without flying into rages.

[addabox]

Perhaps our foreign policy will be this: we keep John McCain in a wooden box with big chains on it. We bring the box to wherever we want something to happen. We let whoever is in charge hear him in there, snarling and smashing at the boards that confine him. He keeps repeating, in a high, strangled voice, "Horseshit, my friends! Horseshit, my friends!"

Then we say, "OK, we're going to let the president out to negotiate, but, whatever you do, don't try to look him in the eye."

[groverat]

he will bite you to death with his little yellow teeth

[Bergermeister]

Perhaps our foreign policy will be this: we keep John McCain in a wooden box with big chains on it. We bring the box to wherever we want something to happen. We let whoever is in charge hear him in there, snarling and smashing at the boards that confine him. He keeps repeating, in a high, strangled voice, "Horseshit, my friends! Horseshit, my friends!"

Then we say, "OK, we're going to let the president out to negotiate, but, whatever you do, don't try to look him in the eye."

I got a flashback of the Tasmanian Devil when reading this... !
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a3/Taz.png/300px-Taz.png

[addabox]

Hmmmmm.......

http://punchup.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/john_mccain.jpg

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/d/d4/Taz,_The_Tasmanian_Devil.png

[franksargent]

I didn't want to start a new thread, and didn't know of a better place for this;

Senate sends big spending bill to Bush to sign (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26915459)

They are willing to take their chances that Democrat Barrack Abeam will be elected president in November and permit increases for scores of programs squeezed by Bush each year.

WTF?

Associated Press updated 2:57 p.m. CT, Sat., Sept. 27, 2008

Did someone hack the MSNBC.MSN website? :???:

EDIT: OK it seems to be a spell checker gone awry, ergo John Moccasin.

[tonton]

http://pages.prodigy.net/pizzabagel/_images/Bizarro.jpg
Mccain win debate!

[jimmac]

Hmmmmm.......

http://punchup.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/john_mccain.jpg

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/d/d4/Taz,_The_Tasmanian_Devil.png

He kind of looks like an old Gary Busey in that picture.:lol:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2976946432/nm0000997

[jimmac]

http://pages.prodigy.net/pizzabagel/_images/Bizarro.jpg
Mccain win debate!

It simple!:lol:

[iPoster]

I'd give a slight edge to Obama, but my main problem throughout the debate was keeping my eyes off of McCain's tie. Don't they teach the Nixon/Kennedy debate to staff members anymore?

[midwinter]

I'd give a slight edge to Obama, but my main problem throughout the debate was keeping my eyes off of McCain's tie. Don't they teach the Nixon/Kennedy debate to staff members anymore?

That tie was horrible, although not as bad as Bush's was that one time.

http://home.comcast.net/~atrios/magictie.jpg

[FloorJack]

I'd give a slight edge to Obama, but my main problem throughout the debate was keeping my eyes off of McCain's tie. Don't they teach the Nixon/Kennedy debate to staff members anymore?

Wow we all seems to agree on something. Maybe the tie was a Maverick move to throw off Obama.

[pfflam]

John Cole (http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=11439) I think it's too early to say, but if he's right, McCain just blew it big time. I love the line "To them, a sneering, contemptuous jerk is a feature, not a bug."

Nope, the thing is is that it really is true, to them, the GOP, a sneering contempruous jerk is a feature

And that is why I think Palin will do quite well against Biden. What I mean be quite well is that all they have to do is present an image of meanness that is more decisive than it is thoughtful, more visious than it is understanding, more visceral than intelligent and they 'win' with thos that resonate with that message . . . and in todays world of bottomless Dorrito Bags and endless laugh-track inanity, that is all that counts.

[midwinter]

Nope, the thing is is that it really is true, to them, the GOP, a sneering contempruous jerk is a feature

And that is why I think Palin will do quite well against Biden. What I mean be quite well is that all they have to do is present an image of meanness that is more decisive than it is thoughtful, more visious than it is understanding, more visceral than intelligent and they 'win' with thos that resonate with that message . . . and in todays world of bottomless Dorrito Bags and endless laugh-track inanity, that is all that counts.

Your rightness scares the fuck out of me.

[Bergermeister]

Good Christians

Lying Christians

Mean Christians


God must be happy.

[pfflam]

Good Christians

Lying Christians

Mean Christians


God must be happy.
Blessed is the Pacemaker:
http://imgnews.naver.com/image/105/2005/05/06/jjus5506.jpg

[Akumulator]

I always had a sneaking suspicion that Jesus shaved his pubes.

[addabox]

Nope, the thing is is that it really is true, to them, the GOP, a sneering contempruous jerk is a feature

And that is why I think Palin will do quite well against Biden. What I mean be quite well is that all they have to do is present an image of meanness that is more decisive than it is thoughtful, more visious than it is understanding, more visceral than intelligent and they 'win' with thos that resonate with that message . . . and in todays world of bottomless Dorrito Bags and endless laugh-track inanity, that is all that counts.

She'll do well with the base. The base is no longer big enough to win the election, even if it turns out strongly.

I think that the polls following the Obama/McCain debate suggest that independents are turned off by mean. And if the independents are turned off, McCain loses.

We'll see, but it looks like the Republican addiction to sneering and snarling at pussy liberals is going to leave them with a very aggrieved minority of the voters.

[Powerdoc]

I did watch the debate on french TV while I have some troubles as always to sleep in a hotel. I find it boring. I was expecting blood and gut, and nothing happens :D

I will rate both candidate the same, but Obama has an advantage. People will give him more credit as a president than before. Mc Cain already had this credit.

[@_@ Artman]

Good Christians
Lying Christians
Mean Christians
God must be happy.

33 Pastors Flout Tax Law With Political Sermons (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/28/AR2008092802365.html)

Defying a federal law that prohibits U.S. clergy from endorsing political candidates from the pulpit, an evangelical Christian minister told his congregation Sunday that voting for Sen. Barack Obama would be evidence of "severe moral schizophrenia."

The Rev. Ron Johnson Jr. told worshipers that the Democratic presidential nominee's positions on abortion and gay partnerships exist "in direct opposition to God's truth as He has revealed it in the Scriptures." Johnson showed slides contrasting the candidates' views but stopped short of endorsing Obama's Republican opponent, Sen. John McCain.

Johnson and 32 other pastors across the country set out Sunday to break the rules, hoping to generate a legal battle that will prompt federal courts to throw out a 54-year-old ban on political endorsements by tax-exempt houses of worship.

The ministers contend they have a constitutional right to advise their worshipers how to vote. As Johnson put it during a break between sermons, "The point that the IRS says you can't do it, I'm saying you're wrong."

With the economy the way it is, they should be treading thin ice here. But nobody will touch them. I say tax the bastards. So many of these preachers don't follow the laws that make their precious income tax-free. Your taxes are now due, payable in full. NOW. Don't have it? Too bad! Call the auctioneer.

[Outsider]

Imagine if they asked the American people if they would take a drastic reduction in taxes provided the government would start taxing religious organizations and individual churches? This would result in 2 options for churches.

1. They would have to start charging parishioners dues.

2. They would have to close down or consolidate (in the south, do we really need hundreds -nay thousands-- of churches in one city?) in order to be supported by contributions and donations.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

I did watch the debate on french TV while I have some troubles as always to sleep in a hotel. I find it boring. I was expecting blood and gut, and nothing happens :D

I will rate both candidate the same, but Obama has an advantage. People will give him more credit as a president than before. Mc Cain already had this credit.

OH MY GOD!

Powerdoc, pfflam and Scott_h_phd! ALL POSTING!

I want my mika back. And Jonas.

And then, I want pre-Diane fellowship back, and... then we can have a proper fight!

[BRussell]

And maybe you can look up Anders there in københavn Hassan.

[tonton]

I want Mac O' The Isles to impart upon us his incomparable wisdom in regard to this election.

[Harald]

Kate.

That is all.

[midwinter]

I want Mac O' The Isles to impart upon us his incomparable wisdom in regard to this election.

Seconded.

[hardeeharhar]

I just saw something disturbing on fivethirtyeight.com ... someone received an absentee ballot from the McCain campaign in VA.

Now they have already served out fake and wrong fliers for requests for absentee ballots and now they are sending out fake absentee ballots. It only takes a few thousand to change an election.

I would imagine that the Obama campaign is on top of this. I would hope.

[FloorJack]

I just saw something disturbing on fivethirtyeight.com ... someone received an absentee ballot from the McCain campaign in VA.

Now they have already served out fake and wrong fliers for requests for absentee ballots and now they are sending out fake absentee ballots. It only takes a few thousand to change an election.

I would imagine that the Obama campaign is on top of this. I would hope.

Huh? Link?

[hardeeharhar]

Huh? Link?
The campaign previously sent out flawed absentee ballot requests in almost all of the battleground states:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26683049/

That is for WI.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/17444027/detail.html?rss=cin&psp=news

There were reports of about 1 M for Ohio. etc.

Now, it is starting to look like they are sending out mock ballots themselves. I have only read ground level rumblings, but combined with the ballot request initiative, it wouldn't surprise me at all that this is true.

Pure Rovian madness.

[FloorJack]

Okay yea I know half of what you are talking about, the Ohio one. My initial reaction was "boy if the roles were reversed democrats would be howling 'DISENFRANCHISEMENT' now". The Wisconsin things just seems like a mistake. Had Obama done that then every mismailed ballot would be "DISENFRANCHISEMENT"!!!


What about the effort by Obama to register people and vote on the same day (over and over again)? Slick;) Only a Chicago kid could figure that one out.


Seems like just run of the mill snafus.

[hardeeharhar]

Please. These things threaten our democracy.

[midwinter]

Please. These things threaten our democracy.

And they are institutionalized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Center_for_Voting_Rights). Didn't one of these "vote fraud" groups just hold a conference in Missouri a while back?

[Bergermeister]

Anything to win.

"Country first"

[FloorJack]

And they are institutionalized (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Center_for_Voting_Rights). Didn't one of these "vote fraud" groups just hold a conference in Missouri a while back?

When did Denver move to Missouri:???:

[Powerdoc]

OH MY GOD!

Powerdoc, pfflam and Scott_h_phd! ALL POSTING!

I want my mika back. And Jonas.

And then, I want pre-Diane fellowship back, and... then we can have a proper fight!

Nice to see you here Hassan :D

[tonton]

Anyone else notice Harald pass by? Miss you!

[Harald]

So hold on, who is FloorJack?

(was)

[hardeeharhar]

Scott/mydo.

Personality shifts abound...

[Bergermeister]

Sorta like McCain's take on Change?

[jimmac]

Sorta like McCain's take on Change?


:lol:

[Bergermeister]

Obama has pulled a lead in 3 key states:

Florida: 51 Obama 43 McCain

Ohio: 50 Pbama 42 McCain

Pennsylvania: 54 Obama 39 McCain


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081001/ap_on_el_pr/campaign_battlegrounds;_ylt=As4DAQeUgNJz9kkAyxyoc2 Cs0NUE

[franksargent]

Okay yea I know half of what you are talking about, the Ohio one. My initial reaction was "boy if the roles were reversed democrats would be howling 'DISENFRANCHISEMENT' now". The Wisconsin things just seems like a mistake. Had Obama done that then every mismailed ballot would be "DISENFRANCHISEMENT"!!!


What about the effort by Obama to register people and vote on the same day (over and over again)? Slick;) Only a Chicago kid could figure that one out.


Seems like just run of the mill snafus.

Obama is registering people all by himself? Who's this Chicago kid you speak of?

I say hang all the Rovian Republicam Retards Right now.

[hardeeharhar]

best quote ever from a poster at 538.com

A league of Democracies!

OMG, it's the retarded child of the Coalition of the Willing.

[Flounder]

best quote ever from a poster at 538.com

That is damn funny :lol: