The Earmarked Bailout

[FloorJack]

Wow:wow: Democrats couldn't keep their hand out of (potential) cookie jar. I have to admit I was confused why the Dem's on the hill endorsed Bush's plan with little modification. They wanted to add some money in for foreclosure relief (to add to what's already been allocated), oversight and some chaff for protecting tax payers blah blah blah. But basically they were ready to hand over $700B to one guy.

Then we find out they snuck in earmark funding ..

Re-Seeding the Housing Mess
(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122247015469280723.html)
Deposits. Not less than 20% of any profit realized on the sale of each troubled asset purchased under this Act shall be deposited as provided in paragraph (2).

"Use of Deposits. 65% shall be deposited into the Housing Trust Fund established under section 1338 of the Federal Housing Enterprises Regulatory Reform Act . . . ; and 35% shall be deposited into the Capital Magnet Fund . . .

...

What we have here essentially are a pair of government slush funds created in July as part of the Economic Recovery Act that pump tax dollars into the coffers of low-income housing advocacy groups, such as Acorn.

Acorn, one of America's most militant left-wing "community activist groups," is spending $16 million this year to register Democrats to vote in November. In the past several years, Acorn's voter registration programs have come under investigation in Ohio, Colorado, Michigan, Missouri and Washington, while several of their employees have been convicted of voter fraud.

Along with other potential recipients of these funds, including the National Council of La Raza and the Urban League, Acorn has promoted laws like the Community Reinvestment Act, which laid the foundation for the house of cards built out of subprime loans. Thus, we'd be funneling more cash to the groups that helped create the lending mess in the first place.

For those that don't know Acorn has actually been convicted of real vote fraud. Not like the hypothetical phantoms that most democrats cling to.

Why raise their own money for nonprofits they believe in when they can steal tax payer money for them.:wow:

Here's how the NYT (http://www.inthetankforobama.com) spins it.

Congress Nears Bailout Deal in Intense Push
(http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/business/28bailout.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp)

Republicans countered that if Democrats were truly in need of generating more support, they would have to jettison some provisions in the bill that were most objectionable to their members, particularly a provision that would direct 20 percent of any profits from the rescue plan to help create affordable housing. The Republicans want all profits returned to the Treasury.

I'm sure everyone here is outraged.:err:

[tonton]

Outaged that there is an attempt to alleviate the suffering of one the main victioms of the housing crisis? As opposed to giving $700 Billion to banks and their wealthy investors without a cent going to the mortgage holders ad those facing bankruptcy?

Uh... yeah. Outraged. :rolleyes:

[addabox]

Outaged that there is an attempt to alleviate the suffering of one the main victioms of the housing crisis? As opposed to giving $700 Billion to banks and their wealthy investors without a cent going to the mortgage holders ad those facing bankruptcy?

Uh... yeah. Outraged. :rolleyes:

But Tonton, haven't you heard? It was them greedy negroes and their liberals pimps that caused the collapse of the global banking system.

Many, many greedy negroes.

[Gilsch]

But Tonton, haven't you heard? It was them greedy negroes and their liberals pimps that caused the collapse of the global banking system.

Many, many greedy negroes.

Including the Hispanic employees (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/26/national_review/index.html) that caused the collapse of Wamu.

[addabox]

Including the Hispanic employees (http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/09/26/national_review/index.html) that caused the collapse of Wamu.

See? See? Liberals insisted on giving colored people the right to vote and have jobs and participate in white people's culture and now they're bringing the whole thing down on our heads, with their shiftlessness and whatnot.

And it's certainly not racist to say so, it's just an objective fact. Good luck explaining that to the liberal fascist thought-police, though......

[hardeeharhar]

Hint: Someone needs to look up definition of earmarks.

Hint: Someone needs to read the proposed bailout bill again.

[@_@ Artman]

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/brandnewday/archives/malkin.jpg

Either that or stop listening to Michelle Malkin (http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/29/malkin-just-cant-control-her-racism-blames-latinos-for-the-mortgage-crisis/) :p

[KingOfSomewhereHot]

Why have ANY bailout? Both Bankers and their customers made some really bad decisions regarding loans (yes, the bad decisions were made by both lenders and buyers.) So let them feel the pain that results from making bad decisions.
But instead, the fed gov is telling them that they can continue making bad decisions, because when the pain gets too bad we (the rest of the taxpayers) will "Bail them out."

[hardeeharhar]

Why have ANY bailout? Both Bankers and their customers made some really bad decisions regarding loans (yes, the bad decisions were made by both lenders and buyers.) So let them feel the pain that results from making bad decisions.
But instead, the fed gov is telling them that they can continue making bad decisions, because when the pain gets too bad we (the rest of the taxpayers) will "Bail them out."
You don't want lenders of any sort being illiquid at any point. The fact that it is industry wide is what threatens the economy.

[franksargent]

Hint: Someone needs to look up definition of earmarks.

Hint: Someone needs to read the proposed bailout bill again.

1) True. The lying WSJ article dated September 27, 2008 never mentions the word earmark. The lying WSJ took their information from a "Discussion Draft" dated September 21, 2008 of the Senate version.

2) True. The lying WSJ article dated September 27, 2008 never mentions the House version dated September 22, 2008 and titled "DISCUSSION DRAFT—Subject to Change" which states;

SEC. 6. RIGHTS; MANAGEMENT; SALE OF TROUBLED ASSETS; REVENUES AND SALE PROCEEDS.
.
.
.
(e) DISPOSITION OF REVENUES AND SALE PROCEEDS.—Revenues of, and proceeds from the sale of, troubled assets shall be deposited into the general fund of the United States Treasury.

Everyone knows that procedural legislation is initiated in the House of Representatives NOT the Senate, where it is voted on, and if passed then goes to the Senate;

Bills (and other proposals) may be introduced by any member of either house. However, the Constitution provides that: "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives." As a result, the Senate does not have the power to initiate bills imposing taxes. Furthermore, the House of Representatives holds that the Senate does not have the power to originate appropriation bills, or bills authorizing the expenditure of federal funds. Historically, the Senate has disputed the interpretation advocated by the House. However, whenever the Senate originates an appropriations bill, the House simply refuses to consider it, thereby settling the dispute in practice. Nevertheless, while the Senate cannot originate revenue and appropriation bills, it does retain the power to amend or reject them.

The current "DISCUSSION DRAFT" dated September 28, 2008 contains the language of the House version as follows;

SEC. 106. RIGHTS; MANAGEMENT; SALE OF TROUBLED ASSETS; REVENUES AND SALE PROCEEDS.
.
.
.
(d) TRANSFER TO TREASURY.—Revenues of, and proceeds from the sale of troubled assets purchased under this Act, or from the sale, exercise, or surrender of warrants or senior debt instruments acquired under section 113 shall be paid into the general fund of the Treasury for reduction of the public debt.

3) Why the lying WSJ even brings up ACORN to begin with is also a lie since;

ACORN is a non-profit, non-partisan social justice organization with national headquarters in New York, New Orleans and Washington, D.C. To maintain independence, ACORN does not accept government funding and is not tax exempt.

4) The lying WSJ "article" isn't even a news article or news reporting but is actually typical lying WSJ biased with intent op-ed hit piece.

If all you want to read are lies from liers then by all means read the lying WSJ. :no:

[KingOfSomewhereHot]

You don't want lenders of any sort being illiquid at any point. The fact that it is industry wide is what threatens the economy.

But they (Freddie, Fannie, et al) put themselves in that position through thier own bad decisions (and we the people allowed it by way of our elected representatives, who changed the regulations so as to allow it.)
If they go under because of their bad decisions, well... perhaps they should. If it has an adverse effect on the entire economy, so be it. The nation as a whole allowed it, so we need to take our lumps.
Facing the consequences of our own bad decisions has to happen eventually... this bailout is going to come back and bite our children (as future taxpayers) in the ass.

[FloorJack]

But they (Freddie, Fannie, et al) put themselves in that position through thier own bad decisions (and we the people allowed it by way of our elected representatives, who changed the regulations so as to allow it.)
If they go under because of their bad decisions, well... perhaps they should. If it has an adverse effect on the entire economy, so be it. The nation as a whole allowed it, so we need to take our lumps.
Facing the consequences of our own bad decisions has to happen eventually... this bailout is going to come back and bite our children (as future taxpayers) in the ass.

Fan and Fred got some help with their bad decisions. An unheard chorus on the hill were warning about too many loans in one place and taking on more and more risky loans.

If the government is able to sell this dicey paper back with little loss and maybe even make money via buy low sell high and warrants on these companies they long term effects could be nill to positive. Shorter term this could weaken the dollar and make inflation worse (I guess).

[Outsider]

I compare it to giving $20 to a mugger so they don't stab you in the gut for not giving up your wallet.

[Jubelum]

I'm glad this failed in its current form. It needed to for the good of the country.

I'm just so amazed to see the leftie stalwarts on this board decrying the non-passage of this bill, and then carrying water for one of the people who helped cause this mess, Barney Frank. For years we've heard the same folks around here time after time rail against corporate welfare... and against government "taking care" of capitalists in their decisions. Well, well, well... here we are.

The only difference here is that the left will abide propping up those evil capitalists, simply because they are going to get the control they've always coveted over Wall Street. And then, as the cherry on top, comes Pelosi and her ilk with a moronic populist message... as if saddling every man, woman, and child in this country with $2300 EACH is "acting in their best interest."

Remember all of you who criticized this bailout as"our slip into communism/socialism" as a way to attack Bush? Amazing how fast the message can change when there is political advantage to be had. Now, it's those DAMN REPUBLICANS who blocked the bill.

You guys have fun with this one. I'm sure we'll hear every excuse and equivocation in the book.

And also... if this whole thing is the fault of This Administration... where are the investigations? Where is the prosecutor? Where is Congress doing it's oversight job? Maybe it is because so many roads in this mortgage mess lead directly to Dodd, Frank, Obama, Gorelick, Raines, Johnson, Reno, Clinton, et al. I mean, in addition to it all being Bush's fault (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/bush-called-for-reform-of-fannie-mae.html).

[Jubelum]

3) Why the lying WSJ even brings up ACORN to begin with is also a lie since;


ACORN is a non-profit, non-partisan social justice organization with national headquarters in New York, New Orleans and Washington, D.C. To maintain independence, ACORN does not accept government funding and is not tax exempt.

Um... no. If you look a little deeper, to find the truth and not just what ACORN tells you on its website... ACORN runs an affiliate known as ACORN Housing Association... which draws money from government sources.

ACORN-HA received taxpayer money through Americorps (http://www.openmarket.org/2008/06/16/an-untrustworthy-housing-fund-housing-bill-has-likely-acorn-slush-fund/)... monies that the Inspector General of Americorps testified was misused for ACORN.

[franksargent]

Um... no. If you look a little deeper, to find the truth and not just what ACORN tells you on its website... ACORN runs an affiliate known as ACORN Housing Association... which draws money from government sources.

ACORN-HA received taxpayer money through Americorps (http://www.openmarket.org/2008/06/16/an-untrustworthy-housing-fund-housing-bill-has-likely-acorn-slush-fund/)... monies that the Inspector General of Americorps testified was misused for ACORN.

In 1994, and this was exposed the following year, you know in 1995.

That's 13-14 years ago, thare is no evidence that similar behaviors would be allowed today given their long ago past track record.

[Powerdoc]

Moral or not, the problem is that if nothing is done, the whole economy will collapse. This an emergency, the lessons of this failure should be taken later.

[gastroboy]

Why have ANY bailout? Both Bankers and their customers made some really bad decisions regarding loans (yes, the bad decisions were made by both lenders and buyers.) So let them feel the pain that results from making bad decisions.
But instead, the fed gov is telling them that they can continue making bad decisions, because when the pain gets too bad we (the rest of the taxpayers) will "Bail them out."

I agree but I really feel for those poor bankers who failed to read the fine print that their conniving customers had their lawyers sneak into the agreements.

I know ignorance is no excuse, but the bankers really had their arms twisted by some very unscrupulous and manipulative poor people.

Moral or not, the problem is that if nothing is done, the whole economy will collapse. This an emergency, the lessons of this failure should be taken later.

Or forgotten completely so the hopelessly greedy can vote for the Republicans again after the Democrats have again cleaned up the mess.


And also... if this whole thing is the fault of This Administration... where are the investigations? Where is the prosecutor? Where is Congress doing it's oversight job? Maybe it is because so many roads in this mortgage mess lead directly to Dodd, Frank, Obama, Gorelick, Raines, Johnson, Reno, Clinton, et al. I mean, in addition to it all being Bush's fault (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/bush-called-for-reform-of-fannie-mae.html).

God you've got to love Republicans "logic". If I rape your daughter at gun point its your fault, not mine, for not stopping me.

[Powerdoc]

Or forgotten completely so the hopelessly greedy can vote for the Republicans again after the Democrats have again cleaned up the mess.

.

Not forgetten at all. Lessons should be take, but we are facing an emergency.

[Bergermeister]

Some Repugs said that Pelosi's speech may have made some of their fellow members oppose the bill; just read it and if that speech made them switch their vote, then they really should quit now and go home so they can grow up. How childish.

[@_@ Artman]

And also... if this whole thing is the fault of This Administration... where are the investigations? Where is the prosecutor? Where is Congress doing it's oversight job? Maybe it is because so many roads in this mortgage mess lead directly to Dodd, Frank, Obama, Gorelick, Raines, Johnson, Reno, Clinton, et al. I mean, in addition to it all being Bush's fault (http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2008/09/bush-called-for-reform-of-fannie-mae.html).

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2055/2231609549_db68b0381a.jpg

It doesn't matter if you paint the car blue or red...there's still a fucking banker behind the wheel.

Congressmen regardless of party affiliation who are in competitive races voted against it. Congressmen in "safe" seats voted for it.

This tells me all sorts of things about the reality of our political system.

We need to stop thinking in terms of Republican and Democrat and start coming together to kick out of Washington the bankers and lobbyists who really run this fucked-up country.

[jimmac]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2055/2231609549_db68b0381a.jpg

It doesn't matter if you paint the car blue or red...there's still a fucking banker behind the wheel.

Congressmen regardless of party affiliation who are in competitive races voted against it. Congressmen in "safe" seats voted for it.

This tells me all sorts of things about the reality of our political system.

We need to stop thinking in terms of Republican and Democrat and start coming together to kick out of Washington the bankers and lobbyists who really run this fucked-up country.

Unfortunately you can't impeach a president for extreme mismanagement. That we do have proof of.

[@_@ Artman]

Unfortunately you can't impeach a president for murder. That we do have proof of (http://www.prosecutionofbush.com/).

:\ sigh