VP Debate: Will Palin Be Coherent?

[Tauron]

discuss.

[screener]

discuss.
As long as she gives a coherent non answer instead of trying to actually answer the question, she'll be fine.

[FormerLurker]

Beer!

[FloorJack]

I just remembered I only have a half a bottle of wine for tonight. Maybe 2/3 bottle.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

Of course she'll be coherent.

Firstly, she's not a terrible debater.

Secondly, she'll have a radio in the small of her back and an earpiece, I imagine concealed by her hair.

[screener]

I won't be able to sit and watch for 90 minutes.
I think I'll rent Runaway Train and catch the high/low lights.

.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

(Sorry... this election's turning me into sammi jo. I'm losing my shit.)

(But it wouldn't surprise me if she was.)

[Outsider]

I just remembered I only have a half a bottle of wine for tonight. Maybe 2/3 bottle.

Oh you'll need a lot more than that to get through tonight. Republicans will need to be totally shit-faced before the first question gets asked.

[BRussell]

It's this kind of stuff that always damages Democrats. Of course she'll be coherent. She's not going to walk into the debate and fall on the floor speaking gibberish. She'll do extremely well. She'll answer a lot of questions evasively, she'll give a few bad/dumb answers, and she'll have a few good one-liners. But she's an experienced politician, she's very charismatic, she's been in lots of debates and given lots of speeches.

[screener]

Are people watching tonight? I might just play some late-night tennis and catch the highlights on youtube.
Can't find anyone in the flesh to drink with?

[Northgate]

I may just have to predicate tonight's viewing with smoking a very large spliff so I can giggle through the whole show.

[screener]

I may just have to predicate tonight's viewing with smoking a very large spliff so I can giggle through the whole show.
Spliff?
WTF is a spliff?

[Outsider]

hehe
It's like an Arnold Palmer but it's 50/50 weed/tobacco rolled joint.

[screener]

hehe
It's like an Arnold Palmer but it's 50/50 weed/tobacco rolled joint.
Yeah, I remember those, usually when we were running low.

Back in the days when I partook, weed wasn't anywhere near as strong as now, I understand from those that still partake.

Gave it up because I lost to many friends, got violent.
Shudder to think what the more potent stuff would do.

[Northgate]

Spliff?
WTF is a spliff?

Joint, hooter, blunt...

[Northgate]

Yeah, I remember those, usually when we were running low.

Back in the days when I partook, weed wasn't anywhere near as strong as now, I understand from those that still partake.

Gave it up because I lost to many friends, got violent.
Shudder to think what the more potent stuff would do.

Weed made you violent? Wow. That's unfortunate. Today's stuff is definitely more potent and powerful. I just inhale less. ;)

[screener]

Weed made you violent? Wow. That's unfortunate. Today's stuff is definitely more potent and powerful. I just inhale less. ;)
Unfortunate? yeah, maybe, but I like beer and it makes me mellow, mostly.

Wouldn't have been much of an issue if I was a violent pussie, but I wasn't.

So, is a spliff what Outsider said or what, just so's I'll know in case someone decides I'm a moron for not knowing and things escalate.

[screener]

Drinking is 11-2 on Thursdays.

After tennis.
Post # 7
I propose a drinking game.
I believe the game will be mostly over.

[screener]

Northgate

So, is a spliff what Outsider said or what, just so's I'll know in case someone decides I'm a moron for not knowing and things escalate.
C'mon, is it a west coast thing?, Us saying? What?
I've never heard that term before, so what is it, half tobacco half weed, or what.

It couldn't have been the term pussie could it?

That was meant as an adjective describing a weakling getting violent and no one worrying about it because, well, what could he/she do that a smacking upside the head wouldn't fix.

[addabox]

Quickly now, before things kick-off:

Run on over here (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/9/30/112442/907/802/615494), and check out the Wilhelm scream theory of Republican debate-bots.

The idea is that once you become conscious of the Gingrich GOPAC system, you start seeing it everywhere (like the now semi-famous sound effect scream used so extensively).

Palin will answer some questions by repeating the words in the question in different order, answer some by spraying buzzwords in no particular order, ignore some and tell stories that "connect" to "average voters" and use a few stock phrases ("Well, Gwen, I think the American people....") to segue from others into some set speeches.

She will do it more awkwardly, and more obviously, than more seasoned pros, because it's unusual for someone with so little experience at it to be thrust onto the national stage. As the linked article points out, usually Republican politicians do what Palin is doing now at the local level, where it doesn't get much scrutiny. By the time they're on national TV, it's seamless and all but invisible.

[screener]

Look into the camera and start, My Friends....

[FloorJack]

I'm Tivo delayed but she's doin' okay so far.

[addabox]

I'm Tivo delayed but she's doin' okay so far.

Yeah. Which means John McCain loses, as opposed to merely losing.

[hardeeharhar]

She's starting to stumble. Even in energy... She is doing ok in general though.

Not really connecting the way she thinks she should...

[iPoster]

It's this kind of stuff that always damages Democrats. Of course she'll be coherent. She's not going to walk into the debate and fall on the floor speaking gibberish. She'll do extremely well. She'll answer a lot of questions evasively, she'll give a few bad/dumb answers, and she'll have a few good one-liners. But she's an experienced politician, she's very charismatic, she's been in lots of debates and given lots of speeches.

:lol:

She's not doing as badly as I thought she would, but it sounds like she's reading right off of the Republican party mission and vision statement.

I also noticed that her accent gets stronger when she's trying hard to present herself as 'one of the gosh-darned regular people'.

[FloorJack]

She keeps knocking it out of the park. Hope runs.

[FloorJack]

Scare those Jews Sarah!:D

[BRussell]

Palin: I said "Thanks, but no thanks," to that second holocaust.

[Northgate]

I hear her speaking a lot of words. But is she actually saying anything. She sure has the snark down though.

[hardeeharhar]

She's thinking on her feet, good for her.

I mean she's talking about divestment of Sudan funds...

I guess that is on her feet.

[FloorJack]

Her answers are for the most part conservative boilerplate.

"Out of the park!"

:p

Like Obama/Biden aren't:???:

[BRussell]

Do all people from Alaska sound like they're from the movie Fargo?

[Outsider]

Does anyone else notice that she keeps calling Biden, OBiden? :lol:

And screener, a spliff (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spliff) ;)

[FloorJack]

I think Joe likes her. If they weren't married they might go have a drink tonight.

[hardeeharhar]

Did Biden almost start crying?

[shetline]

Palin's performance has been a bit smoother than I expected, but she still sounds like she's reciting a bunch of recently memorized talking points, with an emphasis on largely distortion-based attacks. Biden's certainly relying on talking points too, but he's showing more depth and breadth of information than Palin, and a few cheap shots here and there.

I find Palin's little bits of folksiness grating, but there's probably an audience out there that eats that stuff up.

[hardeeharhar]

what is she talking about?

[Outsider]

I think Joe likes her. If they weren't married they might go have a drink tonight.

He can do better.

[hardeeharhar]

whoa.

[FloorJack]

He can do better.

Palin is a cougar.

[hardeeharhar]

butterface.

[Bergermeister]

She seems very scripted.

Why is she only looking at the camera.

She is happy to finally meet and debate with Biden, but she hasn't looked at him in a long time.
The filter of the main-stream media!

[Northgate]

Oh, gosh. Darn it. Shucks, I was just joshin'.

[screener]

She did good.
He did good.

Wish the movie I wanted was available in the crappy corner store.

[Northgate]

Well, surprise surprise, Tom Brokaw is showering Sarah Palin with praise. Shock.

Tankity tank tank.

[Outsider]

They both actually did OK.

[screener]

Does anyone else notice that she keeps calling Biden, OBiden? :lol:

And screener, a spliff (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=spliff) ;)
:lol:
This morning i woke up and my spliff was nowhere to be found. so you already kno my day was fucced up.

[Outsider]

Well, surprise surprise, Tom Brokaw is showering Sarah Palin with praise. Shock.

Tankity tank tank.

I know. We all knew she would be praised for not being a total failure. It's like getting presents for Cs on your report card.

[FloorJack]

Biden did better for sure but as we all agreed this was Palin's to blunder. She didn't.

[FormerLurker]

Biden did better for sure but as we all agreed this was Palin's to blunder. She didn't.
Agreed.

[midwinter]

I think she did fine insofar as she wasn't the disaster that she has been with Couric. At least, I thought that until about the 1:00 mark, and then she seemed to sound coherent but was really just tossing up a bunch of talking point gibberish and pivoting back to safe ground. When the transcript comes out, I'll hunt down what I'm talking about.

[Bergermeister]

The interesting thing will be if she now goes out for another TV interview: will she flub like she did with Couric? If she does, it's game over.

[FloorJack]

I think she did fine insofar as she wasn't the disaster that she has been with Couric. At least, I thought that until about the 1:00 mark, and then she seemed to sound coherent but was really just tossing up a bunch of talking point gibberish and pivoting back to safe ground. When the transcript comes out, I'll hunt down what I'm talking about.

I know what you're talking about. She pivots back to safe ground. A common technique is to get a quick answer out and then use the rest of the time to answer the question that they wanted to be asked.

[BRussell]

I think she did fine insofar as she wasn't the disaster that she has been with Couric. At least, I thought that until about the 1:00 mark, and then she seemed to sound coherent but was really just tossing up a bunch of talking point gibberish and pivoting back to safe ground. When the transcript comes out, I'll hunt down what I'm talking about.Egad, I don't want to even try to decipher the transcript of her responses. Her performance was just a mishmash of smiles and winks and random words thrown out there, dontchaknow. I kept thinking: Wernicke's aphasia.

[midwinter]

I know what you're talking about. She pivots back to safe ground. A common technique is to get a quick answer out and then use the rest of the time to answer the question that they wanted to be asked.

Right. I guess what I was detecting was the roughness of the transition. It makes sense, I suppose. Biden and McCain do that in their sleep. Obama seems to have been born with an ability to do it. She just doesn't have the professional political experience at it that McCain and Biden do, and so it seems a little more jarring than it would, otherwise.

I say again, she did a very good job of sounding coherent. I don't think she actually was half the time, but if you were just kind of halfway paying attention, she sounded fine.

Until that bit about being proud of being an American, which just came out of nowhere.

Did anyone else watch on CNN? They had dials from undecided OH voters as a chyron. Palin seemed pretty flat throughout and the women seemed to really, really like Biden.

[midwinter]

Egad, I don't want to even try to decipher the transcript of her responses. Her performance was just a mishmash of smiles and winks and random words thrown out there, dontchaknow. I kept thinking: Wernicke's aphasia.

Oh heck, BRussell, she just was gonna, ya know, straight talk and, um, maverick, and I'm very proud to be an American. Up there.

[Flounder]

I think she did fine insofar as she wasn't the disaster that she has been with Couric. At least, I thought that until about the 1:00 mark, and then she seemed to sound coherent but was really just tossing up a bunch of talking point gibberish and pivoting back to safe ground. When the transcript comes out, I'll hunt down what I'm talking about.


She fairly obviously was just talking straight out of her ass on the question about what branch of government the vice president belongs to under the constitution, and Biden hammered that pretty hard.

Plus, the constant hammering of the "we're mavericks" thing. Did they focus-group this or something and decided it was a good idea? The constant hammering away on that phrase is, IMO, extremely grating, and I think it comes off as highly superficial.

I also thought Biden did a nice job of turning that one around too.

[screener]

Take a break you'all, switch to the Daily Show and watch Stewart tear Clint Eastwood a new one.

[midwinter]

Here's what I'm talking about. The question is something like "What's the trigger to use nukes?"

link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvsPFndSzNU&eurl=http://www.google.com/reader/view/)

[hardeeharhar]

I think she did fine. I thought she would do fine.

She didn't win and I think that that is important. The standard for Palin cannot be language competency (since as midwinter pointed out, she didn't really show). Importantly, none of the claims she made about Obama stuck. Biden was however quite astutely able to tie the McCain proposals to Bush from top down -- even going so far as to tie Palin's ideologies about the vice presidency to Cheney (brilliant on the heels thinking).

He didn't come off as a jerk. He made virtually no verbal gaffes. The fact checking I have seen so far shows she stretched the truth far more than he did.

Finally, Joe was more warm despite his diving into details than she was with all of her linguistic peculiarities. His one point of choking up about his son in the hospital was worth ten times the amount that her i understand mainstreet...

Still, I suspect this will do nothing to change the momentum of this race. Something a win for Palin would have done.

[hardeeharhar]

My favorite part was when she was describing the two campaigns, I thought she offered up Obama's campaign and a caricature of Obama's campaign as the choice.

It was really striking that her description of McCain's campaign is categorically identical in every way to Obama's.

[FormerLurker]

I think she did fine insofar as she wasn't the disaster that she has been with Couric. At least, I thought that until about the 1:00 mark, and then she seemed to sound coherent but was really just tossing up a bunch of talking point gibberish and pivoting back to safe ground. When the transcript comes out, I'll hunt down what I'm talking about.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html

[groverat]

She doesn't have the credibility needed to justify her lecturing and accusatory style.

I thought it was hilarious that she flat-out admitted she wasn't going to answer the questions.

She hit the talking points like an angry robot. This is an extremely hot-headed ticket.

[shetline]

Judging by my own personal criteria for what *I* want to hear in a debate from the debaters, and not judging by how my (not very kind) mental model of a "typical American" tells me viewers would react, Biden was WAY ahead of Palin.

I was ready to give Palin more points, however, based on my guess of how (as Palin put it) "Joe Sixpack" would react, and how I guessed the TV pundits would react, whose analyses generally amplifies the stupid games of political rhetoric rather than trying to raise the level of discourse.

Surprisingly it seems that CNN, ABC, and CBS are all giving Biden the nod as the winner. Most of the (yes, terribly unscientific) online polls I've seen have Biden as the winner by a comfortable margin.

Perhaps there's hope that more people are seeing through Palin's heavily-scripted, disingenuous, faux-folksy crap than I'd given the masses and the pundits credit for.

[Gilsch]

I predicted she would win and I am very glad I was wrong. Palin reminded me of one of those dolls that talk. You pull the string and off it/she goes. Yadda yadda machine gun speed.

Who the f**k is the McClellan she kept referring to as being the commander in Afghanistan? Nice.

Joe Biden surprised me tonight. Very good debate for him tonight. Very pleasantly surprised.

[addabox]

One thing we're not talking about: I think Biden outperformed expectations.

There was so much talk of what a mine-field the whole thing was going to be-- that he couldn't afford to be aggressive, that he would come off as bullying or patronizing, that he would commit some heinous "gaffe" (I'm coming to hate that word).

But it was a steady, confident performance. A little wonkish, at times, but also at times rising to real eloquence. I, for one, was pleasantly surprised, since I've found Biden to be a bit smug, in the past.

A lot of people will be talking about his response to "not understanding what it is to raise a family", but he had great responses to idea that McCain is any kind of "maverick" and Cheney's theories of the vice-presidency. He steered clear of confronting Palin directly and hammered away at McCain. He seemed composed, humble, statesmanlike, and in charge of the facts.

Snap-polls bear this out-- folks are giving similar numbers to the presidential debate, choosing Biden as the winner, finding Biden more qualified, even perceiving Biden as being "more in touch" with regular people (!)

Palin didn't burst into flame or tears, but a lot of her answers were pretty obviously robotic talking points, not delivered all that well. At times she drifted into gibberish territory.

And it turns out the folksy thing gets grating after awhile-- probably because that, too, comes off as contrived.

At best, this might slow or stop McCain's slide in the polls-- or, it could be the catalyst for some fence sitters to make up their minds, concluding that Palin isn't as bad as she's been made out to be, but that she ain't that great, either.

That seems like a real possibility, come to think of it. That there was maybe a sense that "the real Sarah" was going to blow us all away. Instead, we got a slightly more polished version of the one we know-- and that may be the final straw, for some folks.

EDIT: OK, so Glisch was talking about Biden doing good, seconds before I posted this.

[hardeeharhar]

Judging by my own personal criteria for what *I* want to hear in a debate from the debaters, and not judging by how my (not very kind) mental model of a "typical American" tells me viewers would react, Biden was WAY ahead of Palin.

I was ready to give Palin more points, however, based on my guess of how (as Palin put it) "Joe Sixpack" would react, and how I guessed the TV pundits would react, whose analyses generally amplifies the stupid games of political rhetoric rather than trying to raise the level of discourse.

Surprisingly it seems that CNN, ABC, and CBS are all giving Biden the nod as the winner. Most of the (yes, terribly unscientific) online polls I've seen have Biden as the winner by a comfortable margin.

Perhaps there's hope that more people are seeing through Palin's heavily-scripted, disingenuous, faux-folksy crap than I'd given the masses and the pundits credit for.
Biden came across as a good grandfatherly figure. People may know hockey moms, but they love warm grandfathers more. Simple as that.

It didn't hurt that he could speak in coherent disciplined sentences and she could not.

At no point do I remember him attacking her. But I remember her tossing his words into his face. This was key. Every hard lob she made, he would simply criticize the top of the ticket. It was like a slow dance. Joe clearly likes Sarah, Sarah has no emotions.

[addabox]

Judging by my own personal criteria for what *I* want to hear in a debate from the debaters, and not judging by how my (not very kind) mental model of a "typical American" tells me viewers would react, Biden was WAY ahead of Palin.

I was ready to give Palin more points, however, based on my guess of how (as Palin put it) "Joe Sixpack" would react, and how I guessed the TV pundits would react, whose analyses generally amplifies the stupid games of political rhetoric rather than trying to raise the level of discourse.

Surprisingly it seems that CNN, ABC, and CBS are all giving Biden the nod as the winner. Most of the (yes, terribly unscientific) online polls I've seen have Biden as the winner by a comfortable margin.

Perhaps there's hope that more people are seeing through Palin's heavily-scripted, disingenuous, faux-folksy crap than I'd given the masses and the pundits credit for.

Them insta-polls are a godsend. Left to their own devices, TV pundits resort to their puerile criteria for "winning", and do their usual grotesque channelling of "normal people."

When the response of normal people is being registered right under their heads, it makes it much harder for them to start to drone on about how "people really like Palin" or "Biden seems too cool."

[hardeeharhar]

Biden came across as a good grandfatherly figure. People may know hockey moms, but they love warm grandfathers more. Simple as that.

It didn't hurt that he could speak in coherent disciplined sentences and she could not.

At no point do I remember him attacking her. But I remember her tossing his words into his face. This was key. Every hard lob she made, he would simply criticize the top of the ticket. It was like a slow dance. Joe clearly likes Sarah, Sarah has no emotions.
Is it funny that all three of us started talking about how awesome he did at about the same time?

[addabox]

Is it funny that all three of us started talking about how awesome he did at about the same time?

Yeah, it's like the whole thing was supposed to be about Palin, so it took a little while to realize, "Hey! Joe did us proud!"

[midwinter]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/02/debate.transcript/index.html


Now, Barack Obama, of course, he's pretty much only voted along his party lines. In fact, 96 percent of his votes have been solely along party line, not having that proof for the American people to know that his commitment, too, is, you know, put the partisanship, put the special interests aside, and get down to getting business done for the people of America.


An increased tax formula that Barack Obama is proposing in addition to nearly a trillion dollars in new spending that he's proposing is the backwards way of trying to grow our economy.


It's a nonsensical position that we are in when we have domestic supplies of energy all over this great land. And East Coast politicians who don't allow energy-producing states like Alaska to produce these, to tap into them, and instead we're relying on foreign countries to produce for us.

This one's awesome:


IFILL: You both have sons who are in Iraq or on their way to Iraq. You, Gov. Palin, have said that you would like to see a real clear plan for an exit strategy. What should that be, Governor?

PALIN: I am very thankful that we do have a good plan and the surge and the counterinsurgency strategy in Iraq that has proven to work, I am thankful that that is part of the plan implemented under a great American hero, Gen. Petraeus, and pushed hard by another great American, Sen. John McCain.

I know that the other ticket opposed this surge, in fact, even opposed funding for our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. Barack Obama voted against funding troops there after promising that he would not do so.

PALIN: And Sen. Biden, I respected you when you called him out on that. You said that his vote was political and you said it would cost lives. And Barack Obama at first said he would not do that. He turned around under political pressure and he voted against funding the troops. We do have a plan for withdrawal. We don't need early withdrawal out of Iraq. We cannot afford to lose there or we're going to be no better off in the war in Afghanistan either. We have got to win in Iraq.

And with the surge that has worked we're now down to pre-surge numbers in Iraq. That's where we can be. We can start putting more troops in Afghanistan as we also work with our NATO allies who are there strengthening us and we need to grow our military. We cannot afford to lose against al Qaeda and the Shia extremists who are still there, still fighting us, but we're getting closer and closer to victory. And it would be a travesty if we quit now in Iraq.


PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the vice president. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president's agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we'll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation. And it is my executive experience that is partly to be attributed to my pick as V.P. with McCain, not only as a governor, but earlier on as a mayor, as an oil and gas regulator, as a business owner. It is those years of experience on an executive level that will be put to good use in the White House also.


I want to assure you that John McCain and I, we're going to fight for America. We're going to fight for the middle-class, average, everyday American family like mine.

I've been there. I know what the hurts are. I know what the challenges are. And, thank God, I know what the joys are, too, of living in America. We are so blessed. And I've always been proud to be an American. And so has John McCain.

I love that last one.

[addabox]

You know, I just realized what really grates about Palin. It's not exactly that she can be so incoherent, although that's wearisome, of course.

It's that she's so fucking perky and confident about being incoherent. She just launches into a sentence, clearly with no idea where she's going or what she's talking about, but, man, she doesn't slow down for an instant or appear ruminative or in any way thoughtful, does she?

She's like one of those motormouth morons for whom talking is a substitute for an inner life, or sense, or the faintest hint of contemplation.

It's like she's saying "Oh, hey, this thought process crap is so overrated, y'know, I don't know why they make such a big deal out of it, I can talk my way through pretty much anything and it's not that hard, thank you very much Mr. Egghead, you know, and also I think it's important to remember that Joe Sixpack maybe didn't get to go to college so maybe you think he doesn't have anything to say well surprise he does and he should say it because that's what makes America great that anybody can say what they want and some east coast professor doesn't get to say "hey, pipe down over there."

She's too stupid to realize she's stupid, and thinks the fact that she can work her jaw makes her an orator. Because she has no idea what gracious, elegant speech sounds like, and probably doesn't believe it matters.

[Northgate]

So here's what I learned.

The McCain camp said they were going to let Palin be Palin. That her usual, normal, "real", behavior is what people like.

Well. I learned that Sarah Palin is a shallow, opportunistic, condescending, teeth-sucking, guttersnipe who wants her vice-presidential powers to be expanded if elected. And that doesn't include what I've learned about her bigotry, anti-choice and tendencies towards abuse of power.

Somewhere, hidden inside the country, Wiccan's tremble in fear. :lol::lol::lol:

[addabox]

I love that last one.

I just read a response in Slate that suggests that Palin is a George Saunders character. You know, fractured corporate uplift syntax mixed with this sort of alarming feral edge.

I think that nails it. He wrote a parody of her speech patterns for the New Yorker, couched as a letter from one of her supporters. It's not that different from one of his short stories.

[pfflam]

The worst part about this whole thing, and it litterally is driving me nuts:

I listened to the debates before my wife got home then we watched them on TV

When I listened: Biden wiped the floor with her; non-stop, every question, she was proven a liar an exagerator and an empty jingoist hypist while he had experience authority and intelligence

When I watched the same debate it came accross differently . . . meaning?

She is ALL about image, nothing but.

THEN (and here is the worst part) ALL the local news could say was, "wow, Sarah Palin did better than we expected"
Not that she lost absolutely and actually made a fool of herself, which she did if you LISTENED to the content and verbal delivery, but that she did OK by not stuttering to a stand-still.

Meaning that since they focus on the fact that a complete rookie could stand up there and smile and prattle about this and that trite feel-good sound-byte without stalling, since she could remember the script then she somehow won the debate . . . and that is all that matters, the fact that the media focuses on the fact that a clearly mediocre, middle-brow, inexperienced dud of a goof could NOT vomit on herself-!!. . . this is how a catastrophe of historical proportions is made: people are surprised that the person that they actually know is no competent to the task could look good on camera . . . "golly, maybe she should be president?"

[Gilsch]

Upon watching the debate "highlights" it struck me how much Palin overdid the folksy bit. Hilarious. Next thing she'll have a southern accent.

[FloorJack]

Upon watching the debate "highlights" it struck me how much Palin overdid the folksy bit. Hilarious. Next thing she'll have a southern accent.

She even winked at us. Too cute! "Nice to meet you. Hey, can I call you Joe?"

Now the media borking will have to center on her being a McCain puppet or something and being too folksy.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

She even winked at us. Too cute! "Nice to meet you. Hey, can I call you Joe?"

Now the media borking will have to center on her being a McCain puppet or something and being too folksy.

She said "Can I call you Joe?" so that she could safely use her "Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again" line when Biden landed some heavy blows. I think it was supposed to be 'a zinger' and capture the news the next day in lieu of real substance and thought, of which she has absolutely fuck all.

[Bergermeister]

I was very happy that the moderator wasn't biased like some of the fear mongers had tried to lead many to believe in the 24 hours leading up to the debate. She was very good.

Ya'll notice the final greetings at the moderator's desk?

Palin was overly casual, I thought, for the event. If she became VP, she would have a hard time meeting foreign heads of state. Didn't she wear a short skirt when she met a Muslim last week? He got blasted in the local press... even got a fatwa. She needs to consider the occasion more; now, she looks pathetically out of place.

Then there was the hand gesture to her family, urging them to get up on stage.

Thought Biden out-did her "common man" manners big time when he walked over to her at the end of the debate, then also went over to speak with her parents, especially her father. He showed real class. She was just thinking about the cameras.

[FloorJack]

They'll issue fatwas for anything these days. They're the MBS of religious politics these days.

[jimmac]

Well here's the way the polls show :

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/03/debate.poll/index.html


Debate poll says Biden won, Palin beat expectations Story Highlights
51 percent say Democratic Sen. Joe Biden wins vice presidential debate

Republican Gov. Sarah Palin exceeds expectations, 84 percent say

Palin beats Biden on likability, 54-36

87 percent say Biden is qualified for job, 42 percent say Palin is



She might have been cute but not a knock out.;)

[Bergermeister]

The expectations were pretty low, so if she had not beaten them, then there would be tears around the country today; "what has come of our great nation?" That thought is still wide-spread, but not quite as feverish as it would have been had she flopped.

2:1 they think Biden is ready for the job; 84% means plenty of conservatives thought so, too. Sorry, Sara. Time to go home. Likeability isn't that big of a problem.

[Bergermeister]

Palin mentioned McCain's suspension of his campaign as if it were a great thing. What exactly did he accomplish?

Didn't he say he would restart it until the bill had passed, but then went on and debated Obama?

There were many lines that they need to drop because they are insane.

[Fellowship]

I hear her speaking a lot of words. But is she actually saying anything. She sure has the snark down though.

Sarah Palin was weak in so many ways. She was not nearly on the attack as I thought she would be. She kept returning to issues that she wanted to talk about and did not jump all over Biden nearly as much as I expected that she would. She was running her mouth the whole time but as Northgate correctly states above is not saying a whole lot of ANYTHING. She was like a children's toy that the parent winds up for their child. The John McCain handlers wound her up with canned talking points, diversions and sound bites and let her have a spin for all the conservatives out there to watch, listen to and be bedazzled.

bedazzled I was simply not.....

Biden:

He not only performed well, he mastered the stage. His mastery of foreign policy is what will get me to the polls this fall for the Obama - Biden ticket. I think his debating skills were some of the best I have seen from politicians in recent years. He did Barack proud last night. I truly expected the talk post debate to be all about Palin before the debate began. But,,,,

But,

Palin was nervous, timid, and relied on folksy "gosh darn it" types of comfort food phases and quite frankly she did not appear to master any subject matter be it related to economic, foreign policy, education, health care etc.

and,

Biden displayed knowledge and mastery of matters which Americans find especially important in this election cycle.

Game Over

Obama - Biden

Fellows

[midwinter]

You're voting for Obama, now?

[Outsider]

We can't be a nation of one issue voters. Sometimes you have to put some singular issue aside and vote for the best of 2 choices.

[Flounder]

Palin mentioned McCain's suspension of his campaign as if it were a great thing. What exactly did he accomplish?

Plus the inconvenient fact that besides saying he was suspending he campaign, virtually nothing was suspended. All offices were open, Campaign aides and McCain were all over TV, and a handful of ads were pulled for maybe half a day.

[Flounder]

Palin mentioned McCain's suspension of his campaign as if it were a great thing. What exactly did he accomplish?

Plus the inconvenient fact that besides saying he was suspending his campaign, virtually nothing was suspended. All offices were open, Campaign aides and McCain were all over TV, and a handful of ads were pulled for maybe half a day.

[shetline]

Left to their own devices, TV pundits resort to their puerile criteria for "winning", and do their usual grotesque channelling of "normal people."
I was trying to say something similar, but you said what I was going for much better. I especially love "their usual grotesque channelling of 'normal people'" -- pure gold!

[midwinter]

We can't be a nation of one issue voters. Sometimes you have to put some singular issue aside and vote for the best of 2 choices.

We're not even a nation of single-issue voters, anymore.

[addabox]

I think that's it for the McCain campaign. Sarah Palin rose all the way to "mediocre", and she doesn't have any more opportunities to improve on that. It was kind of the last hurdle for anyone who hadn't made up their mind, with the off chance that we would see a compelling but heretofore misunderstood figure.

No more stunts. No more drama. Just kind of a sour taste in the mouth and a sense the McCain campaign is unprofessional, erratic and negative.

All that happens now is that the attacks get much harsher, as team McCain decides it has nothing to lose. But they don't control the narrative, and massive ad buys with scary TV spots about how Obama just loves him some terrorists and is practically a mob boss just play into the idea that McCain is angry and divisive.

Current economic turmoil makes the steady-as-she-goes Obama team seem comforting instead of scary. McCain has shown himself to be a prima donna with a short fuse, and his running mate is now fully understood to be a nice lady with a folksy manner and a limited grasp of the issues, particularly compared to Biden. The end.

[BRussell]

This was good for a few chuckles.

http://www.adennak.com/archives/palinflow.gif

[Tauron]

You know, I just realized what really grates about Palin. It's not exactly that she can be so incoherent, although that's wearisome, of course.

It's that she's so fucking perky and confident about being incoherent. She just launches into a sentence, clearly with no idea where she's going or what she's talking about, but, man, she doesn't slow down for an instant or appear ruminative or in any way thoughtful, does she?

She's like one of those motormouth morons for whom talking is a substitute for an inner life, or sense, or the faintest hint of contemplation.

It's like she's saying "Oh, hey, this thought process crap is so overrated, y'know, I don't know why they make such a big deal out of it, I can talk my way through pretty much anything and it's not that hard, thank you very much Mr. Egghead, you know, and also I think it's important to remember that Joe Sixpack maybe didn't get to go to college so maybe you think he doesn't have anything to say well surprise he does and he should say it because that's what makes America great that anybody can say what they want and some east coast professor doesn't get to say "hey, pipe down over there."

She's too stupid to realize she's stupid, and thinks the fact that she can work her jaw makes her an orator. Because she has no idea what gracious, elegant speech sounds like, and probably doesn't believe it matters.

I couldn't have said that better myself. Exactly.

[Tauron]

this was good for a few chuckles.

http://www.adennak.com/archives/palinflow.gif

roflmao!

[Gilsch]

She said "Can I call you Joe?" so that she could safely use her "Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again" line when Biden landed some heavy blows. I think it was supposed to be 'a zinger' and capture the news the next day in lieu of real substance and thought, of which she has absolutely fuck all.

Bingo. Upon second view, all the "pre-fab" bullshit easily stands out. She wouldn't answer questions and she actually fucked up a couple of times about McCain being for things he's actually against.

Not pretty. PLenty of SNL material there.

[e1618978]

42% think she is qualified - I think that is game over for McCain, nobody will vote in an unqualified VP that has a 20% chance of becoming president in the first term.

[pfflam]

Bingo. Upon second view, all the "pre-fab" bullshit easily stands out. She wouldn't answer questions and she actually fucked up a couple of times about McCain being for things he's actually against.

Not pretty. PLenty of SNL material there.
A clear example of a gaff on her part but not mentioned, nor really worth mentioning: saying that Main Street's mess is effecting Wall Street.

[addabox]

Does anyone else get the impression that Palin can barely contain her eagerness to crawl right over McCain's desiccated husk to get at the presidency?

There's already been some instances of her talking about the "Palin/McCain" ticket, on the campaign trail.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70oC8Uw-UKY&eurl=http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/) she is responding to the news (which she apparently got from reading one of every newspaper she reads every morning, what a tight-knit ticket they're running over there) that McCain is pulling out of Michigan.

I think she thinks McCain is the drag on her campaign. I wonder if McCain is having second thoughts about inviting a barracuda into his house?

[Gilsch]

Does anyone else get the impression that Palin can barely contain her eagerness to crawl right over McCain's desiccated husk to get at the presidency?

There's already been some instances of her talking about the "Palin/McCain" ticket, on the campaign trail.

Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70oC8Uw-UKY&eurl=http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/) she is responding to the news (which she apparently got from reading one of every newspaper she reads every morning, what a tight-knit ticket they're running over there) that McCain is pulling out of Michigan.

I think she thinks McCain is the drag on her campaign. I wonder if McCain is having second thoughts about inviting a barracuda into his house?

Totally. If you really think about it, McCain IS a drag on her campaign. Palin isn't running for VP.
Heh. Nice one Fox: "Sarah Palin the Democratic vice presidential nominee"....didn't take them very long to pull the good ol' party affiliation switcharoo they do so well. :D

[Northgate]

I'm surprised he even said "Democratic nominee" instead of just "Democrat nominee". That's an improvement already even if it's intentionally misleading (their M.O. for a while now).

Remember how they'd always put a (D) next to Larry Craig's name on the chyron or lower third? :lol:

[addabox]

I don't have to time to hunt up a link, right at the moment, but I seem to recall reading an interview with the Republican that brought Palin into politics and groomed her.

As I recall, he basically said that once she had some power, she stabbed him in the back.

Heh. I guess I do have time, all I had to do was google "Palin mentor backstab." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/23/palin-spread-lies-about-m_n_128564.html?page=3)

Better watch your back, John.

[iPoster]

During a discussion about the debate in my chemistry lab yesterday, the professor said that she thought the VP choices in this election were more important than McCain/Obama. Her reasoning was that McCain is so old its likely that he could die in office, while (according to her) Obama unfortunately stands good odds of an assassination attempt or two.

So that was her logic in choosing Bidden over Palin, in her words Palin would be "like a deer in the headlights" if she had to be sworn in as President.

Morbid thinking, but she does have a point I guess.

[iPoster]

Edit: double post.

[Northgate]

I don't have to time to hunt up a link, right at the moment, but I seem to recall reading an interview with the Republican that brought Palin into politics and groomed her.

As I recall, he basically said that once she had some power, she stabbed him in the back.

Heh. I guess I do have time, all I had to do was google "Palin mentor backstab." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/23/palin-spread-lies-about-m_n_128564.html?page=3)

Better watch your back, John.

Yup. Like I said earlier, Guttersnipe. "Let Palin be Palin." A shallow callous beyach!

[Gilsch]

I don't have to time to hunt up a link, right at the moment, but I seem to recall reading an interview with the Republican that brought Palin into politics and groomed her.

As I recall, he basically said that once she had some power, she stabbed him in the back.

Heh. I guess I do have time, all I had to do was google "Palin mentor backstab." (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/23/palin-spread-lies-about-m_n_128564.html?page=3)

Better watch your back, John.

Good find Adda. Why am I not surprised? This bitch is without a doubt running for President.

[vinea]

This is how Rome fell.

[midwinter]

This is how Rome fell.

No no no. Rome fell because it overextended itself and then -- aw fuck. We're doomed.

[Northgate]

This is how Rome fell.

And I'm sure Republicans will figure out a way to blame it on Democrats. :lol::lol::lol:

[addabox]

Don't laugh-- when they're not figuring him for the anti-Christ or Hitler, I've seen conservative blogs wax on about the eerie similarities between Obama and Caligula.

One that jumped out at me that I remember is "loves to watch torture."

Not a terribly reflective group, your conservative blog commentariat.

[e1618978]

No no no. Rome fell because it overextended itself and then -- aw fuck. We're doomed.

Rome fell because it failed to give women enough power, so they turned to nighttime Christian rituals where they had a lot of power (and Christianity was the cancer that ate the Roman empire).

Other causes - too many slaves, disgruntled soldiers who had their land stolen while off on campaign, a horrible plague brought back by the soldiers, and the lack of tribute money coming in after they stopped expanding.

[Bergermeister]

Some time ago, Obama didn't wear a flag pin and the conservatives made a big fuss over it.

At the P debate, McCain didn't wear one, but nobody has said anything.

Palin turned up wearing a huge pin.


Tina Fey will likely wear a pin large enough to require a crutch to support her!

[Fellowship]

You're voting for Obama, now?

I think the singular issue which more than any other issue during this race which has driven or motivated my vote is the one of foreign policy.

I believe Obama - Biden are more in keeping with my views and that the republican party has entangled itself with failed policies in more areas than simply foreign policy but foreign policy being the key failure which has in part led to other failures of this party.

I simply cannot support this party.

So to answer your question,,, YES.

Fellows

Obama - Biden 08

[jimmac]

I think the singular issue which more than any other issue during this race which has driven or motivated my vote is the one of foreign policy.

I believe Obama - Biden are more in keeping with my views and that the republican party has entangled itself with failed policies in more areas than simply foreign policy but foreign policy being the key failure which has in part led to other failures of this party.

I simply cannot support this party.

So to answer your question,,, YES.

Fellows

Obama - Biden 08

Yea!!!!!!!!!:):D:smokey:8-)Good choice!

This is what I'm hoping to see. Everytime someone seems like they're on the line about voting I tell them to look around. Do you like what you see? Now think about who's been running the show for 8 long years. " But they say it was someone elses fault ". Then I say well that means they're incompetent and can't do their job if they let someone else run the country.

There has to be accountability.

Now consider how McCain has voted 90% of the time in the past. Do you really think he's changed? Do you really think he's about change? The obvious answer is that his record speaks for itself! The choice here really isn't the same. The democrats aren't perfect but they're lightyears ahead of the other side. Do you really think the country can take 4 more years of Bush like of leadership?

There is no other choice right now. Like Joe Biden said in the recent debate " This is the most important election you will ever vote on in your lifetime! "

The time has come to back out of this fucked up mess. I don't really think we'll get a second shot. Not in our lifetimes because it's not going to clean up over night. Time to take out the trash and get started on cleaning this mess up.

[midwinter]

It would have been awesome if you said all of that... but then at the last minute added "but Obama wants to leave abortion survivors to die on the table... so McCain/Palin 08 baby!"

It's a holocaust, dude. I just can't vote for this ticket. Write in BUSH/CHENEY 4 EVAH!

[Akumulator]

I think the singular issue which more than any other issue during this race which has driven or motivated my vote is the one of foreign policy.

I believe Obama - Biden are more in keeping with my views and that the republican party has entangled itself with failed policies in more areas than simply foreign policy but foreign policy being the key failure which has in part led to other failures of this party.

I simply cannot support this party.

So to answer your question,,, YES.

Fellows

Obama - Biden 08

Ha ha!! I knew you'd change your mind again. (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1302508&postcount=123) :D

[FloorJack]

Was anyone bothered by Bidens complete nonsense about Hizballah? WTF was he talking about "move NATO forces in" and then what's this bullshit about PA elections?

Considering he's chairman of the foreign service committee you'd think he'd know a little something about Hizballah in Lebanon?


This clearly calls into question Obama's judgement in vetting a VP candidate. One has to wonder if he's fit to lead given this bad judgement.

[hardeeharhar]

What is up with all of the low information conservative voters out there?

I don't know whether I should be more frieghtened of them or the racists.

[hardeeharhar]

How ironic that my question comes after FloorJack's post to which it wasn't refering?

Scott, do you not remember Israel invading Lebanon? Do you not remember that the end of that conflict was met by a resurgence of Hezballah in Lebanese politics? That the more secular/Christian political parties suffered defeat. That there was a small civil war fought for a while?

Does none of this ring a bell?

Biden was proposing to place nato forces in the southern region of Lebanon to do two things. 1) secure the border area so Israel would not be tempted to invade again and 2) stabilize the secular government. This didn't happen. Now we have yet another Iranian back government in the middle east.

I don't understand how people at all interested in this nation's future cannot recall these simple failures of the bush administration.

[addabox]

I really don't see the upside of trying to play at "Biden is so incoherent, LOL, see how I turn your words back on you."

For that to work there has to be some kind of rough equivalency that doesn't make the non-comatose laugh.

You'd have more luck trying to convince us we only like Biden because we're fantasizing about fucking him (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NDYzMGFiNjQ0MWRjNmI0ZTlkYjgwZTExMjA3MWNiZTk=).

[FloorJack]

I'm just pointing out the bald faced hypocrisy of the members here. Biden contends that the US and France pushed Hizbollah out of Lebanon and then Biden and Obama called for NATO to move troops in?

When we kicked — along with France, we kicked Hezbollah out of Lebanon, I said, and Barack said, ‘Move NATO forces in there. Fill the vacuum, because if you don’t know — if you don’t, Hezbollah will control it

WTF is this Ken Doll talking about? When did the US and France kick Hizbollah out of Lebanon and when did he and Obama call for NATO to move in? How exactly were they going to get NATO to go into Lebanon?

Biden's incoherent ramblings are [fill in the blank].

[hardeeharhar]

I'm just pointing out the bald faced hypocrisy of the members here. Biden contends that the US and France pushed Hizbollah out of Lebanon and then Biden and Obama called for NATO to move troops in?



WTF is this Ken Doll talking about? When did the US and France kick Hizbollah out of Lebanon and when did he and Obama call for NATO to move in? How exactly were they going to get NATO to go into Lebanon?

Biden's incoherent ramblings are [fill in the blank].
He was wrong about France kicking Hezbollah out. So what?

He was absolutely correct in saying that there were calls to put nato forces on the ground.

The fact that you don't recognize that the primary thing he was talking about was absolutely true AND was a criticism of Bush's policies (which was the question at hand) has nothing to do with the fact that he was right.

To answer your strangely irrelevant rhetorical question with my own rhetorical question: How the hell did we get NATO into the Balkans?

I don't know, musta been a miracle.

[FloorJack]

Also when did he call for the PA not to have an election because Hamas would legitimized? Was this a private conversation? Since when is Obama worried about legitimizing rouge regimes? :???::???::???::???::???::???::???::???::???::???:

[FloorJack]

He was wrong about France kicking Hezbollah out. So what?

He was absolutely correct in saying that there were calls to put nato forces on the ground.

The fact that you don't recognize that the primary thing he was talking about was absolutely true AND was a criticism of Bush's policies (which was the question at hand) has nothing to do with the fact that he was right.

To answer your strangely irrelevant rhetorical question with my own rhetorical question: How the hell did we get NATO into the Balkans?

I don't know, musta been a miracle.

Find me a link from 2006 that indicates Biden and Obama calling for nato into lebanon. Let's assume for second that The Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee meant Syria when he said Hizbollah, how is it exactly that the US and France kicked them out?

This gaffe combined with the clean coal gaffe and the TV depression era thing makes it clear that Biden makes it up as he goes along. He'll say whatever sounds good in the moment to get a vote. True or untrue. Is he fit to lead?:no:

[addabox]

Find me a link from 2006 that indicates Biden and Obama calling for nato into lebanon. Let's assume for second that The Chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee meant Syria when he said Hizbollah, how is it exactly that the US and France kicked them out?

This gaffe combined with the clean coal gaffe and the TV depression era thing makes it clear that Biden makes it up as he goes along. He'll say whatever sounds good in the moment to get a vote. True or untrue. Is he fit to lead?:no:

Yeah. Good luck selling that.

[FloorJack]

Yeah. Good luck selling that.

Don't worry. The Tankers wont print this story. Maybe we should look for pictures of Palin looking like a monkey?

[addabox]

Don't worry. The Tankers wont print this story. Maybe we should look for pictures of Palin looking like a monkey?

Love it. You guys keep running against "the media." You can rely on Limbaugh, Fox, and Michelle Malkin to get the word out.

Of course, that means you're only talking to yourselves and you'll never win another election, but doesn't it feel great to circle the wagons and rail against all the structural barriers to equality that stand between Christian white people and their day in the sun?

Meanwhile, the huge corporations that own all the major media outlets will continue to inexplicably root for the socialist, who will take all their money away.

[screener]

Meanwhile, the huge corporations that own all the major media outlets will continue to inexplicably root for the socialist, who will take all their money away.
Never could figure out this rational from the right.

[jimmac]

Don't worry. The Tankers wont print this story. Maybe we should look for pictures of Palin looking like a monkey?


Look. At least Biden knows the difference between the Civil War and recent conflicts.:lol:

[screener]

The right seems intent on dumbing down their base, which in my opinion is pretty dumb already, with the, she/he is just like me bullshit, Bush as an eg.

And now, today Sarah Palin gave a speech about something most informed political types already know.
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NGY3NTZmZjkzOWEzY2QxZmM2ZjllM2FmOWE4OTZjZjk=
Well, I was reading my copy of today’s New York Times and I was really interested to read about Barack’s friends from Chicago. Turns out, one of his earliest supporters is a man who, according to The New York Times was a domestic terrorist and part of a group that, quote, ‘launched a campaign of bombings that would target the Pentagon and the U.S. Capitol.’
Turns out?
Now she remembers a newspaper she reads? Maybe.
This is someone who sees America as imperfect enough to pal around with terrorists who targeted their own country.
Of course the article never implied this, but that doesn't matter, once she said it, it's the god's honest gospel.

What a fucking cunt, meant in the most generous term of course.

Desperation, let the smear campaign begin.

[Akumulator]

http://blog.cleveland.com/ent_impact_movies/2008/02/prezcamcho.jpg

[midwinter]

I can't wait for them to announce that they've just learned that Obama got a DUI.

As an aside: does it bug anyone else that Palin and Obama keep referring to people by their first names? Biden and McCain seem to generally allow them their titles.

[addabox]

I can't wait for them to announce that they've just learned that Obama got a DUI.

As an aside: does it bug anyone else that Palin and Obama keep referring to people by their first names? Biden and McCain seem to generally allow them their titles.

Yeah. In Palin's case, I guess it's "folksy." I think Obama calls McCain "John" because he knows it bugs the shit out of him. In both cases it's a pretty unsubtle way of bringing your opponent down a notch, to the level dorm room bull session partner.

I'm all for bugging the shit out of John McCain, but anything but "Senator" grates, to my ear.

[Fellowship]

Ha ha!! I knew you'd change your mind again. (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1302508&postcount=123) :D

We all have our faults and I think it is clear what one of mine is :embarrass

But have cheer because it is with great consideration that I waffle between all these politicians.

I really like to evaluate, re-evaluate, and yes you guessed it re-evaluate things and when I do sometimes I reposition or regroup.

It comes across badly but I can assure you this character flaw / strength (depending on how you see it) does me more good than bad as I see it.

I really like to try to see things from all perspectives and sometimes I have to nail down a list of priorities to sort out "what really matters".

I have made a clear observation that foreign policy is what drives my motives more than any other singular issue in this particular election.

I just personally believe that John McCain with all due respect, does not share the same views as I with regard to foreign policy. It seems that of both of the two viable tickets in this race I am more closely aligned with the Obama -Biden ticket than the McCain - Palin ticket.

With my apologies,

Fellows

[Fellowship]

It's a holocaust, dude. I just can't vote for this ticket. Write in BUSH/CHENEY 4 EVAH!

I expected something about like this give or take...

With respect to Shawn's post sure it was a bit silly and creative.

With yours (and despite what you may think I love ya bro) I lose some of the love involved with the humor.

I will say that I will ALWAYS and without any wavering what so ever, champion the cause of life and the options of adoption and re-considered parenting by some who question their abilities to mother and / or father a child which may not be in the making at a seemingly opportune time for given situation facing said mother and / or father.

I don't think it is a silly cause to champion life and adoption. I don't think it is redneck. I do in fact believe it is the progressive thing to do.

Now I cannot by any means solve all the world's problems (let's be honest that is not my responsibility) nor do I fully realize every-single situation out there faced by pregnant women but,, I am not ashamed to work with sensitivity and a heavy heart to hope to influence a shift to the idea of life as opposed to abortion.

I am not sure laws are the levers to be pulling on to affect change in this matter. I do believe that love, support, understanding, sacrifice and investment in others are tools which oftentimes are underutilized and in their place we substitute convenience in far too many cases. I have to be very careful not to impose judgement upon others for their actions as I am just as much a fallible human being who is not perfect as well. Let's be for real around here. I am being serious.

My only desire is to be a force for good and I am fully aware that I am not always effective and or efficient at this goal but rest assured none the less I am fully committed to the cause of loving my neighbor, my community, my world and my lord and saviour.

With complete respect and consideration,

Fellows

[Bergermeister]

Well, Tina didn't show up with a huge pin, but SNL's opening skit was great.

Didn't see it on SNL's site, but Huffington has it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-i_n_131964.html

If, heaven forbid, Camp McCain gets elected (it's not actually John and Sara running, but the seemingly pathetic puppet masters), the one good thing will be SNL will have lots of material for several years. On the downside, we might not be here to see it.


---

Will Sara appear on the Sunday morning shows this week?

[Bergermeister]

My wife is watching the debate now (CNN had a simultaneous translation; we record everything so we can both watch and understand completely).

She is going crazy watching Palin.

Answer the darned question!
That's not the question!
Who cares about your opinion and story, how will you govern?

She had to take several breaks while watching because Palin was so irritating.
Her comments at the end:

Palin is a female dog, alright.
How in the heck can this woman even be seriously considered or even presented for consideration?
Are the Republicans completely out of the minds?
Is the US this screwed up?
Palin is an insult to any woman who has entered a beauty pageant; many can speak better.

Sure, my wife can't vote in the election, but she knows very well that a lot of the goings on in the world are strongly influenced by the US and who is in the WH. The possibility McCain and particularly Palin gaining office frightens her to death.

Her final comment:
Tina Fey would make a much better VP.

[jimmac]

Well, Tina didn't show up with a huge pin, but SNL's opening skit was great.

Didn't see it on SNL's site, but Huffington has it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/04/tina-fey-as-sarah-palin-i_n_131964.html

If, heaven forbid, Camp McCain gets elected (it's not actually John and Sara running, but the seemingly pathetic puppet masters), the one good thing will be SNL will have lots of material for several years. On the downside, we might not be here to see it.


---

Will Sara appear on the Sunday morning shows this week?

Once again brilliant! " There's a special place in heaven for Israel. ":lol:

[e1618978]

"Since I was a young child, my two great loves have been Jews and Cuban food" 8-)

[Flounder]

"and for all the Joe six-packs out there playing a drinking game.... Maverick."