Palin says Obama friendly with terrorists

[ronaldo]

The McCain campaign must really be getting desperate.

http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSTRE4932E920081005

Palin cited a New York Times story on Saturday that examined Obama's relationship with Bill Ayers, a former member of the Vietnam-era militant Weather Underground organization who is now a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. The Times concluded they were not close.

Sounds like good Mcarthyism to me.:wow:

[jimmac]

The McCain campaign must really be getting desperate.

http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSTRE4932E920081005

Palin cited a New York Times story on Saturday that examined Obama's relationship with Bill Ayers, a former member of the Vietnam-era militant Weather Underground organization who is now a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. The Times concluded they were not close.

Sounds like good Mcarthyism to me.:wow:

They've been desperate for sometime. The pick of Palin was desperate.

And yes these two are very scary. We can't allow them into the Whitehouse.

[FloorJack]

What is the connection between Ayers and Obama? Did they work together or something?

[screener]

What is the connection between Ayers and Obama? Did they work together or something?
Give it up already or find something new huh?

[talksense101]

This is a very lame attempt by the Republicans. They need to do better.

[ronaldo]

What is the connection between Ayers and Obama? Did they work together or something?

Both Obama and Ayers were members of the board of an anti-poverty group, the Woods Fund of Chicago, between 1999 and 2002. In addition, Ayers contributed $200 to Obama's re-election fund to the Illinois State Senate in April 2001. They lived within a few blocks of each other in the trendy Hyde Park section of Chicago, and moved in the same liberal-progressive circles.

[screener]

He knows, just trying to push his point in a not so subtle way.

In her speech, transparently, ha, saying she read about it in the Times, to show , transparently, that she reads a newspaper occasionally.

Like Bush expounding on how many books he's read in the last year, without adding that Laura read the few he got the gist of.

The Times article says there isn't much proof of a tie, let alone palling around.

The right n the US has dumbed itself down so much since Bush it's sad and scary and now some that wanted to but had some sense of WTF, are celebrating Palin after holding their breath before the debate.

Celebrating what?
That she cleared a bar that was set so low, she didn't trip over it.

[Bergermeister]

That she cleared a bar that was set so low, she didn't trip over it.

So low it was just a line of paint on the road.

[giant]

trendy Hyde Park
One correction/clarification: hyde park is not trendy. It's an old neighborhood. Despite the decline of surrounding neighborhoods (the neighborhood with the worst violence in Chicago starts two or three blocks west of Obama's house), it has kept its character largely due to the institutions it contains, most notably the University of Chicago. While there are a couple nice restaurants, it is actually relatively devoid of the kinds of shops and services you'd get in a trendy urban neighborhood. Furthermore, the whole situation needs to be viewed in context. For example, the best Chicago neighborhoods are still far less safe than the worst neighborhoods in someplace like Zurich.

Note, too, that the University of Chicago has been one of the primary focal points for conservative intellectualism for decades.

[groverat]

Sarah Palin is a horrid cunt of a person.

[Bergermeister]

Apparently this is where they're taking the campaign. No more John McCain biography. No more economy talk.

Anything but the issues, it seems. But then, Palin can't discuss the issues, so going this route makes it easier on her.

McCain has really sold out the Straight Talk Maverick to the Camp Bush planners who don't really care about the country, just about winning.

Linked this in the McCain thread, but it is so good I will post it here.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print

[FloorJack]

I have a wild idea. Maybe Obama could answer some direct questions about his relationship with Ayers. Seems to be a little more than "just some guy" in his neighborhood. Didn't Obama and Ayers wife work at the same law firm or something? I'll have to go look that one up.

[jimmac]

I have a wild idea. Maybe Obama could answer some direct questions about his relationship with Ayers. Seems to be a little more than "just some guy" in his neighborhood. Didn't Obama and Ayers wife work at the same law firm or something? I'll have to go look that one up.

Floorjack or Scott or whomever,

It really looks like the facts are already out there.:rolleyes:

And what difference does it make today?

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

[BRussell]

I have a wild idea. Maybe Obama could answer some direct questions about his relationship with Ayers. Seems to be a little more than "just some guy" in his neighborhood. Didn't Obama and Ayers wife work at the same law firm or something? I'll have to go look that one up.Wasn't McCain's wife a drug addict who embezzled from a charity in order to feed her habit? I'll have to go look that one up.

You know, I was kinda dreading this period of negativity when McCain (and, apparently, his troopers on the internet) is clearly losing. But I think it will be fun to watch McCain and the Republicans not only lose the election, but all remaining self-respect.

[addabox]

I have a wild idea. Maybe Obama could answer some direct questions about his relationship with Ayers. Seems to be a little more than "just some guy" in his neighborhood. Didn't Obama and Ayers wife work at the same law firm or something? I'll have to go look that one up.

OK, if Palin is willing to answer some direct questions about Todd's membership (until 2002, when his wife's political ambition went state-wide) in a political party that explicitly hates America.

The party's founder had this to say:

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan secession, the key goal of the AIP.

"And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Vogler continued in the interview, which also touched on his disappointment with the American judicial system. "I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."


Why has Palin remained mum on her husband's hatred of America? Seems like that hits a lot closer to home than a guy Obama served on a board with. Oh, yeah, and there was that chirpy little "keep up the good work" video Palin made for the AIP, where she explained that she shared many of their goals. Does Sarah Palin want to see the United States disbanded? It's actually a legitimate question, and a fuck sight more on point than bullshit ruminating about Obama's "radical" connections.

But I guess the liberal media forgot to be in the tank, for that one.

Or for that matter, why has McCain remained silent on his relationship with convicted criminal G. Gordon Liddy? Liddy, you may recall, used to like to brag about his plans to assassinated government officials, and once told his radio listeners how to best go about shooting federal authorities, should they come onto their property.

Do people on the right really want to start talking about fucking domestic terrorism, and who knows who?

[groverat]

Scott:

What questions need to be answered about Obama and Ayers?

[shetline]

Scott:

What questions need to be answered about Obama and Ayers?
Obama is supposed to respond so the Republican mud-flinging gets an extra boost via Obama's repetition of the BS used against him -- even repetition done in the context of denial or clarification helps to keep the FUD going.

FUD, strident jingoism, and religious extremism are all McCain/Palin have left going for them.

[screener]

\
FUD, strident jingoism, and religious extremism are all McCain/Palin have left going for them.
Great word jingoism,
"extreme patriotism, esp. in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy."


Combined with the religious fervor inherent with right wingism, the term "Fucking Americans" is understandable when US foreign policy is discussed.

I got banned with prejudice by a previous moderator for using the term but if McCain and the female turnip get elected, ...

[franksargent]

Scott:

What questions need to be answered about Obama and Ayers?

Obviously there are no questions that need to be answered about Obama and Ayers.

Just pure 100% innuendo at this stage for the totally beyond desperate McCain campaign and their in the tank supporters.

[hardeeharhar]

It is interesting that in this case the media (all of them, except, FoxNews) are doing their jobs by saying that the link is tenuous at best...

Of course, now I am hearing rumblings that the October surprise is a claim that Obama's campaign is financed from abroad... oh, and when Obama wins it will be because dead or non-existent people voted for him...

[groverat]

If that's the "October surprise" then I'm going to start pretending Obama is already president.

I think the "October surprise" will be that McCain is a shitty candidate who has run a shitty campaign.

[Akumulator]

Well if the media picks up on it and runs with it like they did with Rev. Wright, then I hope the Obama campaign doesn't simply try to deflect this shit. I hope they hit back (http://mediamatters.org/items/200810040004).

And since Palin's the new attack dog, maybe there should be more talk by the campaign about her current investigation and also her husband's past affiliation with that Alaska separatist group.

[tonton]

Wasn't McCain's wife a drug addict who embezzled from a charity in order to feed her habit? I'll have to go look that one up.

No. The fact is that she was a drug addict who stole drugs from her charity to feed her habit. Get it straight! ;)

[tonton]

Ooh! I have an idea... let's demand that Obama explain his associations with Larry Sinclair!

[groverat]

There is a balance between effectively "hitting back" and "going so far with your 'hitting back' that you validate it as an issue and keep it alive in the news cycle".

[midwinter]

Or for that matter, why has McCain remained silent on his relationship with convicted criminal G. Gordon Liddy? Liddy, you may recall, used to like to brag about his plans to assassinated government officials, and once told his radio listeners how to best go about shooting federal authorities, should they come onto their property.

Do people on the right really want to start talking about fucking domestic terrorism, and who knows who?

Liddy is far worse than that. He was, apparently, ready to kidnap people, kill, and blow things up as part of the campaign that contained Watergate.

[addabox]

Liddy is far worse than that. He was, apparently, ready to kidnap people, kill, and blow things up as part of the campaign that contained Watergate.

Yep. But, apparently, even when it comes to domestic terrorism, IOKIYAR.

After all, he only did all that stuff because he was trying to save the country from hippies.

I've read of rumblings from the Obama campaign that, should McCain get unduly interested in Ayers, they're prepared to get interested in McCain's associations, which are many and checkered.

Back when he was Saint BBQ, that wouldn't have worked. Now that he's angry and erratic and hates the press, I think McCain has the most to lose in any exchange of "pin the blame on the associate."

[midwinter]

Yep. But, apparently, even when it comes to domestic terrorism, IOKIYAR.

After all, he only did all that stuff because he was trying to save the country from hippies.

I've read of rumblings from the Obama campaign that, should McCain get unduly interested in Ayers, they're prepared to get interested in McCain's associations, which are many and checkered.

Back when he was Saint BBQ, that wouldn't have worked. Now that he's angry and erratic and hates the press, I think McCain has the most to lose in any exchange of "pin the blame on the associate."

Indeed. I'm still getting email from my relative who's part of the email whisper campaigns. He sends out an email a day about how Obama is a secret muslim communist terrorist. My mother forwards them to me. She'll very likely vote McCain and is, shall we say, a traditional southerner, and she's completely appalled at the stuff he sends around.

So the nastier McCain gets, the worse he looks.

[hardeeharhar]

http://www.keatingeconomics.com/

an Obama campaign site.

Not too dissimilar in virtue to:

http://www.mclobbyist.com/

These are probably the fist viral political websites i have ever seen...

[Akumulator]

I just got the email from Obama about the Keating site. The 13 minute documentary goes up tomorrow. I was wondering when they'd start talking about McCain and the Keating 5. It just seemed obvious these last couple weeks that it should be a point of discussion.

[Bergermeister]

Indeed. I'm still getting email from my relative who's part of the email whisper campaigns. He sends out an email a day about how Obama is a secret muslim communist terrorist. My mother forwards them to me. She'll very likely vote McCain and is, shall we say, a traditional southerner, and she's completely appalled at the stuff he sends around.

So the nastier McCain gets, the worse he looks.



Have you seen the Rolling Stone article? It is worth a read and should be shared with anyone who is considering McCain.


http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print

[franksargent]

Have you seen the Rolling Stone article? It is worth a read and should be shared with anyone who is considering McCain.


http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/23316912/makebelieve_maverick/print

Posted Oct 16, 2008 7:00 PM

What's up with the posted date of this article?

Is that supposed to be the actual print date of the hardcopy print for sale version of Rolling Stone?

:???:

[Bergermeister]

Welcome back, Frank.

Guess that is the publication date.

---

They also have a good one on Palin:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin

Title and leader:

Mad Dog Palin
The scariest thing about John McCain's running mate isn't how unqualified she is - it's what her candidacy says about America

[franksargent]

Welcome back, Frank.

Guess that is the publication date.

---

They also have a good one on Palin:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/23318320/mad_dog_palin

Title and leader:

Mad Dog Palin
The scariest thing about John McCain's running mate isn't how unqualified she is - it's what her candidacy says about America

Yes, it is the publication date, at the end of your link;

[From Issue 1063 — October 16, 2008]

Long read on McCain, but a good one, McCain's character is questionable, at best, and should be considered dangerously unbalanced and seriously flawed, at worst.

[SDW2001]

The McCain campaign must really be getting desperate.

http://www.reuters.com/article/wtMostRead/idUSTRE4932E920081005

Palin cited a New York Times story on Saturday that examined Obama's relationship with Bill Ayers, a former member of the Vietnam-era militant Weather Underground organization who is now a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago. The Times concluded they were not close.

Sounds like good Mcarthyism to me.:wow:

Ohh! bama described his relationship with Ayers as "friendly." They sat on a board together and spoke at a few events together. So...a connection? Somewhat of one, yes. Do I think for a second that Obama supports Ayer's actions? No. But I have one question: Who the hell would be "friendly" with an avowed terrorist? Oh wait...see SDW, it was a long time ago and no one died in the attacks. Well then, that explains it...which is good, because Obama won't do so.

[Hassan i Sabbah]

Are the Republicans who sat on the same board with Obama and Ayers to be expelled from the Republican Party for their associations with a known terrorist?

Clearly they can't be fit to be in positions of power either.

[Flounder]

Why would McCain be "friendly" with avowed terrorist G. Gordon Liddy?

Why would Palin be "friendly" with an Alaskan sepratist group?

[midwinter]

Why would McCain be "friendly" with avowed terrorist G. Gordon Liddy?

Why would Palin be "friendly" with an Alaskan sepratist group?

Duh! They hate America and all this great land stands for and the great Ronald Reagan. Youbetcha. And the such as.

[SDW2001]

Why would McCain be "friendly" with avowed terrorist G. Gordon Liddy?

Why would Palin be "friendly" with an Alaskan sepratist group?

1. That's pretty weak.

2. Ad hom removed.

[Flounder]

1. That's pretty weak.

2. That's simply a lie.

1. I know #1 is pretty weak. So is the Ayers thing. That's my point

2. Palin attended the Alaska Independence Party's convention in 1994 (according to witnesses) 2000 (the McCain campaign confirms this), and addressed their convention THIS year. These are indisputable facts. If that's not "friendly" I don't know what is.

Of course, I don't think that matters at all either. Again, it's simply to illustrate my point that Republicans are grasping at straws.

[Bergermeister]

McCain and Liddy go way back, but to what degree?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped0504chapmanmay04,0,6238795.column


Todd Palin and the independence party in Alaska

Public life

Palin first registered to vote in 1989. From 1995 to 2002 he was registered to vote as a member of the Alaskan Independence Party.[11] In late August 2008, The Politico reported that Palin was registered to vote as an independent ("undeclared"), and had never registered as a Republican.[12] In early September 2008, a spokesman for John McCain said Palin was now a registered Republican.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Todd_Palin#Public_life

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-aip3-2008sep03,0,6399468.story



So, if guilt by association is the game, McCain loses, too.

[Bergermeister]

And then there is Phil Gramm, co-chair of Camp McCain:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/10/06/ST2008100600738.html

[Harald]

SDW: if Palin addressed the AIP's conference this year, and it wasn't a sign of friendliness, what was it?

Just for giggles, let's hear it.

[BRussell]

There's only one reason this is coming up:

Obama: 51, McCain 41 (http://www.pollster.com/)

Obama is ahead in Florida, Ohio, Colorado, Iowa, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Nevada, North Carolina, Virginia. NORTH CAROLINA, VIRGINIA. Not to mention all the obvious ones that Kerry and Gore won.

[midwinter]

There's only one reason this is coming up:

Obama: 51, McCain 41 (http://www.pollster.com/)

Obama is ahead in Florida, Ohio, Colorado, Iowa, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Nevada, North Carolina, Virginia. NORTH CAROLINA, VIRGINIA. Not to mention all the obvious ones that Kerry and Gore won.

And it begins. A friend was talking with Zogby the other day, and he said that we'll see it first in the national polls and then the swing states as people "get comfortable" with Obama.

[jamac]

2. That's simply a lie.

or in Sarah's words (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwvPNXYrIyI)

[Harald]

.

2. That's simply a lie.

"Good luck on an insipiring convention, keep up the good work, and God bless you."

:lol:

C'mon, let's hear this one too -- would it be a lie to say that voluntarily addressing the AIP convention in these terms was 'friendly'?

[addabox]

The news cycle has been interesting.

McCain campaign declares: "The big story now is we're taking off the gloves and talking about Obama's associates. His sleazy, evil associates that prove he's the devil."

So now most campaign stories are about how "McCain gets medieval on Obama's ass", which, conveniently, obliges them to repeat the scurrilous charges-- that, of course, being the point. The idea that McCain might start calling Obama a gypsy dwarf sent from the past to kill us all is a ratings driver.

However, a fair percentage of the stories I'm seeing are at some pains to refute those charges, fairly high up in the body of the story, if not in the same sentence where they are mentioned.

This is in stark contrast to the Gore and Kerry campaign coverage, which was mostly about simply listing whatever outlandish lies Rove had cooked up, maybe at some point mentioning that such charges were "disputed" by the Democrats.

Which is why I've mentioned that swiftboating doesn't work if the media doesn't play along. You can't make the campaign narrative into "Obama pals around with terrorists, Americans recoil in horror" if all the stories are making it clear that "pals around" is nonsense.

The McCain campaign is too weak, disorganized and battered to pull of the bullying imperiousness that this stuff requires, and everybody knows it. It just comes off bitter.

It occurs to me that some folks are convinced that "the media" are "in the tank" for Obama because it's been quite a while since they've seen presidential campaign coverage that wasn't organized around the idea that the press's job is to give wide play to the wildest imaginings of the fever swamp.

[Flounder]

It occurs to me that some folks are convinced that "the media" are "in the tank" for Obama because it's been quite a while since they've seen presidential campaign coverage that wasn't organized around the idea that the press's job is to give wide play to the wildest imaginings of the fever swamp.

Hey, the liberal media won't tell you all about how the financial crises is all the fault of Barney Frank, et al. It's borderline treason, I tells ya!

[Outsider]

Here's an idea. Let Alaska secede and Palin can be the president of that country.

[BRussell]

Here's an idea. Let Alaska secede and Palin can be the president of that country.

I love it!

[hardeeharhar]

I love it!
Her personality matches that of a standard dictator of an oil rich nation... hmmm... its a good framework...

[SDW2001]

SDW: if Palin addressed the AIP's conference this year, and it wasn't a sign of friendliness, what was it?

Just for giggles, let's hear it.

It was....a political speech?

Also, according to the AIP's own site, Todd Palin was a member, but never participated in party activities. And are we comparing the AIP to the Weather Underground now?

[BRussell]

Her personality matches that of a standard dictator of an oil rich nation... hmmm... its a good framework...

Maybe she learned something from looking over at Putin so much.

[addabox]

It was....a political speech?

Also, according to the AIP's own site, Todd Palin was a member, but never participated in party activities. And are we comparing the AIP to the Weather Underground now?

Are we to compare being a member of a party to serving on a board with a guy? Really?

Are we to compare crimes by an individual 40 years ago with the organized, explicit aims of a political party?

Being told by that party that Todd "didn't participate" means what, exactly? And what is that party doing, exactly, that everyone perceives as such a political liability? Todd didn't take any of the bomb making workshops? Todd didn't sit in on the "Fuck America" symposium? Todd didn't sign off on the "America must die" memorandum?

Now the American people deserve to know, don't you think, if Todd was present when any anti-American ideas were articulated. Did he just sit there and listen to the hate? WHY WON'T THE PALINS EXPLAIN? WHY AREN'T THEY TALKING ABOUT IT? WHAT ARE THEY HIDING BY NOT TALKING ABOUT IT?

I'm actually startled that anyone would try to argue that joining a political party is somehow less of an endorsement of certain ideas than being in the vicinity of a person with a checkered past.

I realize I shouldn't be startled by anything, anymore, but....... man. That just seems like a tough sell.

[franksargent]

It was....a political speech?

Also, according to the AIP's own site, Todd Palin was a member, but never participated in party activities. And are we comparing the AIP to the Weather Underground now?

No.

We're comparing the AIP to an eight year old Johnny McCain, which happens to be his permanent mental state of denial and delusion, that is the mind of an infant.

[SpamSandwich]

I don't know about anyone else, but even being in the vicinity of a group that is/was pushing for secession from the US should immediately disqualify Sarah Palin. This makes her an operative working against the Federal government, which is clearly an act of treason.

How ya like them "red" shoes now?

[Harald]

It was....a political speech?

Also, according to the AIP's own site, Todd Palin was a member, but never participated in party activities. And are we comparing the AIP to the Weather Underground now?

Awesome. Thanks!

[Bergermeister]

Should we trust what the AIP says?

If they say Todd didn't do something, should we trust them?

If he wasn't registered for a certain brief period, then did he have to re-register on a regular basis? If so, then it was an active choice.

[Northgate]

It was....a political speech?

Also, according to the AIP's own site, Todd Palin was a member, but never participated in party activities. And are we comparing the AIP to the Weather Underground now?

So you're completely willing to hold Obama's feet to the fire over a fleeting relationship with Ayers, but will dutifully waive your hand of indifference to Todd Palin's membership of a secessionist group?

Telling.

Why did Todd Palin feel the need to become a member at all?

[Northgate]

Should we trust what the AIP says?

If they say Todd didn't do something, should we trust them?

If he wasn't registered for a certain brief period, then did he have to re-register on a regular basis? If so, then it was an active choice.

You bet your ass he made an active choice in joining AIP.

Again, liberals don't really give a shit about this stuff. But if they're going to make Ayers a campaign point then they've got to be willing to take the flak for their own "associations".

[Northgate]

If Ayers is such a horrible, despicable, domestic terrorist .... then why isn't he in prison? Why was he not convicted? Hell, why wasn't he killed by firing squad for treason and sedition back when he was accused?

Also, why haven't any of the Republicans who served on the same boards as Ayers been systematically kicked out of the Republican party and publicly hung for it? Oh, that's right...that's because this is all a bunch of bullshit.

[hardeeharhar]

You bet your ass he made an active choice in joining AIP.

Again, liberals don't really give a shit about this stuff. But if they're going to make Ayers a campaign point then they've got to be willing to take the flak for their own "associations".
It's not just an association, its active membership.

It's not just a shady deal, its actively taking money and trips from unsavory characters.

This is hardly the multiple degrees of separation Obama has with the weathermen or black liberation theology or a convicted real estate embezzler.

This IS direct attachment of McCain and Palin to progressing Russia's interests abroad, antisemitic neonazi groups, secessionist, convicted real estate/banking collapse swindler, etc.

It would be wise for people who are question the multiple degrees of separation between Obama and offensive ideologies to look at the direct connections between the other ticket and equally if not more offensive ideologies.

[midwinter]

Here is a list of all the people pallin' aroun' wit' terroristsstststs:

Board of Directors and Officers

Laura S. Washington, Board Chair*
Ida B. Wells-Barnett University Professor and Fellow of the DePaul Humanities Center

Jesus G. Garcia, Vice Chair*
Executive Director, Little Village Community Development Corporation

William C. Ayers
Distinguished Professor of Education, University of Illinois at Chicago

Lee Bey
Director of Media and Governmental Affairs, Skidmore, Owings, & Merrill LLP

Doris Salomon

Beth E. Richie
Professor and Head of the Department of African American Studies, University of Illinois at Chicago

Patrick M. Sheahan
Executive Director, Public Affairs, UBS Investment Bank

Charles N. Wheatley
President, Sahara Enterprises, Inc.

Lucia Woods Lindley
Board Member Emeritus

[shetline]

It was....a political speech?

Also, according to the AIP's own site, Todd Palin was a member, but never participated in party activities. And are we comparing the AIP to the Weather Underground now?
{Ad hom deleted}

[midwinter]

I don't like that Patrick Sheahan guy from UBS. He gave $1000 to Saxby Chambliss (http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=IL&last=Sheahan&first=Patrick)! Saxby Chambliss takes money from people who pal aroun' wit' terroristststs!!!

[Northgate]

I don't like that Patrick Sheahan guy from UBS. He gave $1000 to Saxby Chambliss (http://www.newsmeat.com/fec/bystate_detail.php?st=IL&last=Sheahan&first=Patrick)! Saxby Chambliss takes money from people who pal aroun' wit' terroristststs!!!

Excellent point, mid. Where does it end? How far down the rabbit hole are Republicans willing to take everyone with them? Is this some sort of "scorched earth" campaign now, "If we can't win then we're going to burn this whole fucker down!"

You know, George Bush had more than just a few brief associations with the Saudis. Hell, a whole friggin' movie that made over $100M was made about those associations. And Republicans just shrugged their shoulders and said, "Fuck you."

[Northgate]

Also, do Democrats really need to point out McCain's voting records that helped protect abortion clinic bombers? Do we really need to showcase his record as proof that McCain desired protecting domestic terrorists?

Do we?

[tonton]

I smoked the AIP, but I didn't inhale.

[Gilsch]

How sad and pathetic to even be having this conversation. First Palin and now this garbage. As if the country didn't have enough problems already.

People actually believe that shit?? :no:

[addabox]

PA republican party gets in on the fun (http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/GOP_hits_rock_bottom_Calls_Obama_in_an_official_re lease_terrorists_best_friend.html), calls Obama "a terrorist's best friend."

Was it Midwinter that predicted that before the election was over they'd be flatly calling Obama a terrorist?

McCain's base (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_who_is_the_real_barack.php) is there, for sure. Of course, there were also cries of "kill him", cause I guess that's what you do with terrorists.

Republicans must be so proud. What an impressive party of ideas and values. No wonder simple folk of faith are Republicans. No wonder the country is on its knees. We must be worshipping.

[midwinter]

Was it Midwinter that predicted that before the election was over they'd be flatly calling Obama a terrorist?

I think that was you (http://forums.appleinsider.com/showpost.php?p=1260839&postcount=20).

[Gilsch]

Shit Adda. Wish I hadn't seen that video you just posted. :(

Unfuckingreal.

[addabox]

Shit Adda. Wish I hadn't seen that video you just posted. :(

Unfuckingreal.

I know. It's why I'm abruptly starting to talk about television shows. I just..... at some point I just don't wanna know.

[hardeeharhar]

Ok. I am pissed-the-fuck-off.

Do the Republicans understand where McCain's camp is driving their party? It certainly isn't the Whitehouse and even if they do manage to get there, what's the point of running a nation of citizens you just blindsided with outright lies and half-cocked imbecilic rants?

Honestly, SDW, do you think this equating of Obama with terrorists is a good idea for the nation?

FloorJack, do you believe the racism that is boiling up in the Republican party is good for it in the long run?

Nick, where are you man, your party has gone to shit, have any ideas why the Republicans so want to destroy their own brand by using clear cut and debunked lies time and time again just to see if they can keep power?

[midwinter]

Speaking of which, is anyone trying to watch "Heroes"? It seems to be some kind of huge joke designed to be completely bewildering. There appear to be about 40 timelines in play and characters wander around in space and time at will. Which is fun for the editorial staff, no doubt, but makes getting particularly involved a bit of a slog.

OMFG. In the middle of that ep, I started reading, and my wife said "What are you doing?!" and I said "I don't even know when, where, which where, or which when this is taking place. It's completely, utterly, lost."

[shetline]

If McCain had one shred of decency left he'd admit how very far he's strayed from the kind of campaign he's talked about running so long, and actually (not as a stunt, like before the debate) suspend his campaign for good.

Ever since he lost to Bush in 2000, however, he's been slowly selling out to the far right, a little piece of his soul at a time, and I don't think he has and decency left.

[addabox]

OMFG. In the middle of that ep, I started reading, and my wife said "What are you doing?!" and I said "I don't even know when, where, which where, or which when this is taking place. It's completely, utterly, lost."

:lol: Good, I'm glad it's not just me.

[hardeeharhar]

OMFG. In the middle of that ep, I started reading, and my wife said "What are you doing?!" and I said "I don't even know when, where, which where, or which when this is taking place. It's completely, utterly, lost."
How dare you read in front of the television!

It has feelings, you know.

*shhshh* He didn't mean anything by picking up that nasty nasty book, *shh* he still luvs you...

[addabox]

If McCain had one shred of decency left he'd admit how very far he's strayed from the kind of campaign he's talked about running so long, and actually (not as a stunt, like before the debate) suspend his campaign for good.

Ever since he lost to Bush in 2000, however, he's been slowly selling out to the far right, a little piece of his soul at a time, and I don't think he has and decency left.

If the Rolling Stone article that's been linked to a few times is even somewhat true, the guy's never had a decent bone in his body. Just an unassailable sense of privilege, a mean streak, and a nose for doing what's best for John McCain.

[Bergermeister]

Camp McCain's rallies are getting worse.

Members of the audience yell out "terrorist" and "kill him", but nothing is said by the main speakers (who conveniently didn't hear?).

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/10/06/in_fla_palin_goes_for_the_roug.html


---

The media is now not allowed to interview Palin supporters.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/breakingnews/2008/10/under-the-watch.html


These are scary people, folks. Get out and make sure all of your friends are informed and registered and will actually turn out to vote. Camp McCain does not give a crap if they destroy the country and possibly the world.


-----

While we're on the topic of associations:

McCain had ties to a group in the Iran-Contra affair.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081007/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_iran_contra;_ylt=AjhteHgWo.kuF.LbUhITuunMWM 0F

Camp McCain will likely spin this into John was attempting to stamp out communism on his on, he's such a hero.

[addabox]

I suspect a McPalin administration would make the Bush administration look like the height of openness and transparency.

Complete secrecy, overt and aggressive hostility to the press, all information via tax funded propaganda. Staged events with goons to keep the press out and the White House's own production teams there to make the television spots for Fox.

Interviews with right wing bloggers only. Anyone attempting to do actual reporting could be declared a terrorist and disappeared.

And the patriots of the right would be delighted to see it. Of course, all of this would be happening in the ruined husk of what used to be the United States of America, but totally worth it to piss off liberals.

Fuck. I just described the Bush administration. I am incapable of imagining the horror of a McPalin presidency.

[hardeeharhar]

The story tomorrow won't be Ayers or Wright, or Tony. It will be the racial epithets hurled by McCain supporters to the press. It will be the call for killing either Ayers or Obama. It will be the anger (sickening, revolting) of the people who support McCain.

Think about this -- if given the option of joining ranks with a bunch of hot headed racists or voting for someone who inspires more peaceable actions, where do you think independents will find themselves drawn?

McCain should have known that opening the door to these veiled racist criticisms would have simultaneous released the floodgate of racism that underlies what I believe is a small minority of his support. A vocal, horrible nasty minority whose view of America are out of touch...

[addabox]

As was brought up in the discussion re the difference between the Kerry swiftboating and now, McCain has botched the surrogate game.

By getting personally nasty, he erases the firewall between himself and whatever fever swamp ugliness he inspires.

The Bush people would never have allowed themselves to be connected in any way to, say, the "John McCain's illegitimate black baby" smear, back when they were running against him in NC. The presidential candidate is supposed to say presidential things and let his organization handle the plausible deniability for the gutter stuff.

But McCain is so personally vindictive he hasn't been able to resist jumping in to prime the pump. So when the mob mentality starts becoming a liability, McCain is in no position to disavow "extremists"-- and at this point he doesn't seem to realize he needs to. He thinks getting people to shout "terrorist" means he's getting it done. There he is, smirking and chortling, driving home the message that he is a petty, small man.

What a clueless fuck. He's going to get exactly what he deserves: the complete destruction of the fraudulent persona he's been using for personal aggrandizement all these years, and absolutely nothing to show for ti.

[hardeeharhar]

Actually, I don't think McCain botched the surrogate game so much as the surrogates failed to get any headway using the same attacks in, of all places, Michigan (and Ohio). Attacking from the top, I believe the McCain campaign believes legitimizes these false claims.

This tells us two things:

527s may have ended their functional life.

McCain's campaign is run by damned fools.

[pfflam]

http://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/6/0/3/7/23317306-23317312-slarge.jpg

Its an ugly picture.

But what is really terrible is the amount of positive respect I find for these two in places online that I sometimes frequent. . . for instance, I am a Pittsburgh Steeler fan, have been since living there, I go to a site for fans to talk Steelers, and the pair is slobbered over without the least bit of refexion.

BUT, look at the thread I am about to start for a slice of hope.

[pfflam]

Here: the vice chairman of AIP says that Sarah Palin had been a member of the AIP: WAS A MEMBER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIi4rbIXbkw&watch_response)

[Harald]

So busted.

"Infiltrate any party you can."

[Bergermeister]

Here: the vice chairman of AIP says that Sarah Palin had been a member of the AIP: WAS A MEMBER (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIi4rbIXbkw&watch_response)

Fast forward to the 6:00 minute mark and watch from there if you don't want to watch the whole 9 yards.

She was a member until she became mayor of Wasilla.

Oops.



Somebody better copy the video before Camp McCain has it deleted...

[SDW2001]

So you're completely willing to hold Obama's feet to the fire over a fleeting relationship with Ayers, but will dutifully waive your hand of indifference to Todd Palin's membership of a secessionist group?

Telling.

Why did Todd Palin feel the need to become a member at all?


Fair enough. Those questions should be asked. But let's look at what that party stands for:

http://www.akip.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Independence_Party

I really don't see a group of crazies here, do you?

[jamac]

Fair enough. Those questions should be asked. But let's look at what that party stands for:

http://www.akip.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Independence_Party

I really don't see a group of crazies here, do you?

Country first!

Which one though?:???:

They have a link to Pravda: http://english.pravda.ru/world/americas/104960-0/

HMMMM, maybe California should go on it's own as well.

[hardeeharhar]

Fair enough. Those questions should be asked. But let's look at what that party stands for:

http://www.akip.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Independence_Party

I really don't see a group of crazies here, do you?
Yes... Keep looking, there are sub-sites on the website that clearly show a belief that Alaska should go it alone...

[Bergermeister]

Odd, but from the wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Independence_Party

According to the Alaskan Independence Party's web site:
"The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
Remain a Territory.
Become a separate and Independent Nation.
Accept Commonwealth status.
Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, that Alaskans achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, and promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences."[9]

The Alaskan Independence Party maintains that Alaska's vote for statehood is "invalid" because "the people were not presented with the range of options available to them" and because "federal government has since breached the contract for statehood."[10] Their web site addresses many questions about Alaskan Secession, including:
If Alaska became independent, wouldn't we lose a lot of federal money? [10]
If Alaska were independent, what would happen to my social security check, federal pension, or military retirement?[10]
If Alaska became independent, would U.S. military bases leave?[10]
Under independence, what would happen to all the federal controls and regulations?[10]
Would I lose my U.S. citizenship?[10]

[hardeeharhar]

http://www.akip.org/faqs.html

enough kook?

[giant]

I really don't see a group of crazies here, do you?
The AIP founder, Joe Vogler, made the comments in 1991, in an interview that's now housed at the Oral History Program in the Rasmuson Library at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.

"The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan secession, the key goal of the AIP.

"And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Vogler continued in the interview, which also touched on his disappointment with the American judicial system. "I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

At another point, Volger advocated renouncing allegiance to the United States. In the course of denouncing Federal regulation over land, he said:

"And then you get mad. And you say, the hell with them. And you renounce allegiance, and you pledge your efforts, your effects, your honor, your life to Alaska."
source (http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/09/aip_founder_professed_hatred_f.php) among others (http://www.google.com/search?q=%22The+fires+of+hell+are+frozen+glaciers+ compared+to+my+hatred+for+the+American+government% 22)

[SpamSandwich]

Odd, but from the wikipedia link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaskan_Independence_Party

According to the Alaskan Independence Party's web site:
"The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
Remain a Territory.
Become a separate and Independent Nation.
Accept Commonwealth status.
Become a State.
The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, that Alaskans achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, and promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences."[9]

The Alaskan Independence Party maintains that Alaska's vote for statehood is "invalid" because "the people were not presented with the range of options available to them" and because "federal government has since breached the contract for statehood."[10] Their web site addresses many questions about Alaskan Secession, including:
If Alaska became independent, wouldn't we lose a lot of federal money? [10]
If Alaska were independent, what would happen to my social security check, federal pension, or military retirement?[10]
If Alaska became independent, would U.S. military bases leave?[10]
Under independence, what would happen to all the federal controls and regulations?[10]
Would I lose my U.S. citizenship?[10]

Personally, I'm OK with them seeking independence. But it should immediately disqualify Palin. She could be a member of a sleeper cell and McCain might know it.

[Bergermeister]

Personally, I'm OK with them seeking independence. But it should immediately disqualify Palin.

My sentiments exactly.

[addabox]

Before this is over, somebody's going to get hurt: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html)

Worse, Palin's routine attacks on the media have begun to spill into ugliness. In Clearwater, arriving reporters were greeted with shouts and taunts by the crowd of about 3,000. Palin then went on to blame Katie Couric's questions for her "less-than-successful interview with kinda mainstream media." At that, Palin supporters turned on reporters in the press area, waving thunder sticks and shouting abuse. Others hurled obscenities at a camera crew. One Palin supporter shouted a racial epithet at an African American sound man for a network and told him, "Sit down, boy."

That's people power, meine freunde.....

[SpamSandwich]

Before this is over, somebody's going to get hurt: (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/10/06/AR2008100602935.html)



That's people power, meine freunde.....

Sarah Palin's Lynch Mob.

The person who yelled "kill him" should have been taken in by the FBI for making threats against Obama's life. McCain's team has unleashed true ugliness in this campaign.

[giant]

Oh, snap.

Not only does the AIP have ties to Iran (http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/10/07/palins_unamerican/), but guess how founder Vogler died? Vogler, who said "the fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government" and that he'd "fight them with any means at hand" was murdered while buying plastic explosives in 1993 (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940CE3DB153CF936A25753C1A9629582 60).

[groverat]

Countdown to a Palin rally devolving into a riot with chants of "KILL THE NIGGER!"

10 days...

[addabox]

Countdown to a Palin rally devolving into a riot with chants of "KILL THE NIGGER!"

10 days...

Really. If I were the McCain campaign, that would actually be my main concern, at this point, especially when they campaign in some of those formerly safe but suddenly in play southern states.

Like Virginia, say, where the party brass think being a Democrat is to be a communist, and Obama will hire Ludacris to "paint the White House black."

That's not dog whistling, that's a call to arms. The McCain campaign is giving the basest, vilest, most openly racist members of their party no reason to believe that they aren't being summoned and fluffed.

And if it for real gets out of hand-- if a member of the press gets ruffed up or they erupt into a spontaneous, racist chant-- that's all she wrote. It'll delight the worst people in the country, and horrify the vast majority.

[groverat]

Or perhaps Obama will end up dead.

I am disgusted by John McCain and Sarah Palin on a personal level.

[screener]

Or perhaps Obama will end up dead.

I am disgusted by John McCain and Sarah Palin on a personal level.
What about those that believe what they say.

McCain and maybe Palin know what they say is crap, but the followers really believe it.

Idiots, not anyone here of course.

[groverat]

When you whip up the violent and fearful in order to attain power for yourself I have no respect for you as a person.

McCain has no honor or dignity left. He needs to build some more up for himself. (Palin never gave herself enough time to have it.)

[jamac]

What about those that believe what they say.

McCain and maybe Palin know what they say is crap, but the followers really believe it.

Idiots, not anyone here of course.

What happened to this? (http://www.topical-bible-studies.org/21-0024.htm)
:D:???:

[screener]

What happened to this? (http://www.topical-bible-studies.org/21-0024.htm)
:D:???:
Hypocritical idiots, not anyone here of course.

[franksargent]

These decrepit nutjobs, McCain and Palin, will incite some nutjob of their own ilk, to go out and take a shot at Barack Obama, a la James Earl Ray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Earl_Ray).

These douche bags, McCain and Palin, are intent on starting a riot, a race riot.

These all too real domestic terrorists, McCain and Palin, must be stopped at all costs.

[groverat]

That attempt at satire would be funny if there weren't actual people at the Palin rallies screaming "KILL HIM!"

[SpamSandwich]

http://media.threadless.com/product/428/minizoom.jpg