What about the Mac Mini?

[gwmac]

Since the October 14th event seems to be focused on the laptops, seems like little chance for updtates on the Mini which is by far the most out of date Mac of them all.

Is it any surprise no one is buying a Mini given their hopelessly outdated and meager specs. With this economy Apple needs a vastly improved Mini at a lower price point.

[Joe_the_dragon]

Since the October 14th event seems to be focused on the laptops, seems like little chance for updtates on the Mini which is by far the most out of date Mac of them all.

Is it any surprise no one is buying a Mini given their hopelessly outdated and meager specs. With this economy Apple needs a vastly improved Mini at a lower price point.

They need a min tower.

The Psystar system specs are so much better that the mini looks like a joke.

[aaquib]

Despite it being focused around Macbooks, I think we'll see a Mini refresh. Whether minor or major, it's coming.

[Kickaha]

Agree. The mini couldn't go anywhere without bumping up against the low end MacBook and iMac specs. They've bumped the iMac, they're bumping the MacBooks... and then the mini pulls up the rear, as usual.

Either that or they'll just eliminate it.

[Marvin]

It's been 14 months since they've done anything with it. Usually Mini updates come along with the iMac updates.

I think after the new laptops come out, they have to change it or get rid of it because of the fact it still uses plastic. They are transitioning to all metal. Hopefully that won't affect wireless signals though.

[nvidia2008]

They'll just keep the Mini around as it is, IMO. They're hoping people won't keep buying them so they can actually discontinue it.

[Captain Jack]

I hope there is a new Mini, I want one to connect to my 47 inch HDTV, since that would give me most of the benefits of Apple TV plus web browsing etc, on a FullHD panel it would look very slick I think. But I'm not going to buy the present model as it is just too old.

Funnily enough, if there is a 800 buck notebook I might use that as a default mini of sorts, nuts as that is. But I'm really hopeing we get a new mini on the 14th, or at least new specs!

[Frank777]

Since Tuesday's focused on Notebooks, I would have pegged the Mini for a silent upgrade today.
That way, after Thanksgiving the focus won't be distracted from the new machines to "Why the Mini is a complete waste of time..."

[troberts]

Since Tuesday's focused on Notebooks, I would have pegged the Mini for a silent upgrade today.
If, or when, the Mac mini gets updated it will get some of the new tech that is going into the MacBook so a silent update would ruin any sort of surprise that Apple will have with the notebooks.

[gwmac]

Probably the main reason is so damned expensive for what you get is due to the fact that it uses miniaturized laptop parts which cost so much more. It is a prime example of form hurting functionality and certainly cost.

If they would just make a slightly larger version that could use normal desktop parts like a 3.5" HD and optical drive, as well as a desktop class Core 2 Duo, the cost for the parts would be a lot lower. Not to mention it would be a much more powerful computer. Apple's obsession with making every new version slimmer and smaller works for products like the iPod or laptops, but I think it is hurting their desktop line.

I would love to see a Mini Pro as an option even if it cost about the same as a Macbook or entry iMac. As long as it includes a PCIe slot for a real video card and maybe a Wolfdale class CPU.

Maybe with these new rumored Nvidia chipsets, just upgrading the current Mini's form will be good enough if they also increase max ram to 4GB and hopefully do away with the white plastic case. After 14 months I am hoping for a radical redesign and update or a completely new model like a Mini Pro.

[crocodile]

Don't you think the latest iMac made the Mac Mini redundant? I do.

If you buy a Mini, you need a screen to go with it. As soon as you buy a flat screen monitor, you've got an iMac. So why bother with the Mini? Why not just get an iMac? it's one thing instead of two.

Ah, i hear you say. You can easily pack a Mac Mini in a brief case and transport it around with you. Ditto with a MacBook Air or MacBook. Then again, some people figure that the iPhone is effectively a Mac Mini, because it packs so much computing power into such a small package. Personally, i think that's a stretch, but maybe the MacTouch will be?

I just don't see a future for the Mac Mini.

[Ireland]

They'll just keep the Mini around as it is, IMO. They're hoping people won't keep buying them so they can actually discontinue it.

It's only a distraction anyway. If they are going to bother selling a standalone they should make it a $1000 mini-tower. What they really need however is a juicier Apple TV with a DVD slot.

[joelsalt]

Don't you think the latest iMac made the Mac Mini redundant? I do.

If you buy a Mini, you need a screen to go with it. As soon as you buy a flat screen monitor, you've got an iMac. So why bother with the Mini? Why not just get an iMac? it's one thing instead of two.

Ah, i hear you say. You can easily pack a Mac Mini in a brief case and transport it around with you. Ditto with a MacBook Air or MacBook. Then again, some people figure that the iPhone is effectively a Mac Mini, because it packs so much computing power into such a small package. Personally, i think that's a stretch, but maybe the MacTouch will be?

I just don't see a future for the Mac Mini.

the logic is that its for "switchers" who already own a mouse/keyboard/screen from their PC, and they have a cheap way to "try" a Mac.

I dunno if this is particularly useful, but that was the original logic.

[Phong]

There are monitors everywhere. Everywhere. HDTVs are all monitors now. My new Cintiq will be a monitor. What's wrong with being green and efficient, and not wanting yet another screen? And glossy screens are ugly. Ugly.

[Ensign Pulver]

The Psystar system specs are so much better that the mini looks like a joke.
Yes, and consumers are just snapping them up by the boatload. Oh, wait....

[nvidia2008]

Don't you think the latest iMac made the Mac Mini redundant? I do.

If you buy a Mini, you need a screen to go with it. As soon as you buy a flat screen monitor, you've got an iMac. So why bother with the Mini? Why not just get an iMac? it's one thing instead of two.

Ah, i hear you say. You can easily pack a Mac Mini in a brief case and transport it around with you. Ditto with a MacBook Air or MacBook. Then again, some people figure that the iPhone is effectively a Mac Mini, because it packs so much computing power into such a small package. Personally, i think that's a stretch, but maybe the MacTouch will be?

I just don't see a future for the Mac Mini.

I need a KEYBOARD port of some sort and VGA OUT for my iPhone 3G! That would be sweet.

Adventurous accessory makers are probably on the case, as we speak.

Along with Jailbreak stuff... Mmm.... Sweet.

[krispie]

If you buy a Mini, you need a screen to go with it.

That 'screen' is the LCD HD TV, in my case. My mini is a great STB.

[guinness]

Don't you think the latest iMac made the Mac Mini redundant? I do.

If you buy a Mini, you need a screen to go with it. As soon as you buy a flat screen monitor, you've got an iMac. So why bother with the Mini? Why not just get an iMac? it's one thing instead of two.

Ah, i hear you say. You can easily pack a Mac Mini in a brief case and transport it around with you. Ditto with a MacBook Air or MacBook. Then again, some people figure that the iPhone is effectively a Mac Mini, because it packs so much computing power into such a small package. Personally, i think that's a stretch, but maybe the MacTouch will be?

I just don't see a future for the Mac Mini.

I already had an LCD monitor, not the mention the 20" panel in the latest iMacs isn't that great (even my sub-$200 Acer widescreen 20" LCD has slightly higher brightness). And I already have a perfectly fine KB and mouse (the Mighty Mouse would get tossed in the trash), and I also have my PC tower to consider, which I also plug into my LCD panel.

And no the iPhone/Touch doesn't compare to a real computer, as I've got a Touch - it's just an iPod with Safari and a few apps (slightly improved since I've recently jailbroke it).

The Mini really needs updated graphics, higher RAM support, and a fast 3.5" HD. I don't want to spend $1200 to get an iMac with a cheap panel that I don't want or need.

[Phong]

No mini upgrades at all.

Ever...

[Marvin]

No mini upgrades at all.

Ever...

I think Steve feels our pain:

http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stevejobslovesministoolb8.jpg

But nobody listens to him any more.

There's nothing for Apple to lose right now by updating the Mini with good graphics and say 2GB Ram standard. The iMac and Mac Pro have good graphics options so there's no problem.

Maybe they are finding a way to squish an Nvidia motherboard into a square shape.

[Nordstrodamus]

Is it possible that the Mini is now the record holder for the longest time a computer model has gone without an upgrade?

[mjteix]

While I was not planning on buying a notebook this year, the announcements scared me a little: however you try to look at these, it's an increase in price and a decrease in processing power, mainly because of the LED LCD display (and the manufacturing process, maybe).

So what's in store for the desktops?

A $699 Mac mini with a 1.60GHz cpu, nvidia graphics, Superdrive and Wireless-N?
A $1399 LED LCD 20" iMac with a 2.26GHz cpu and nivida graphics?
A $2999 Mac Pro with a single quad 2.66Ghz cpu, because of a "new" glass/alu enclosure?

Not at all happy with the current direction!
:no:

[aaarrrnnn]

I was hoping that the rumored $800 macbook would come true. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. And since the new macbook is way over my budget, I'm now hoping an upgrade to the Mac Mini would come.

[DHagan4755]

It's evident now that the mini is getting the same NVIDIA graphics chipset, display port, and unibody construction that the MacBook and MacBook Pro received today.

Next Tuesday for an update?! :devil:

[Phong]

It's evident now that the mini is getting the same NVIDIA graphics chipset, display port, and unibody construction that the MacBook and MacBook Pro received today.

Next Tuesday for an update?! :devil:

Nope. Not ever... ! :(

That comic's pretty funny, though, Marvin... If only, lol.

[FuturePastNow]

Right now, the $599 mini is the last computer Apple sells with a combo drive.

[Joe_the_dragon]

While I was not planning on buying a notebook this year, the announcements scared me a little: however you try to look at these, it's an increase in price and a decrease in processing power, mainly because of the LED LCD display (and the manufacturing process, maybe).

So what's in store for the desktops?

A $699 Mac mini with a 1.60GHz cpu, nvidia graphics, Superdrive and Wireless-N?
A $1399 LED LCD 20" iMac with a 2.26GHz cpu and nivida graphics?
A $2999 Mac Pro with a single quad 2.66Ghz cpu, because of a "new" glass/alu enclosure?

Not at all happy with the current direction!
:no:
they can't push the cost of the pro to high as they bill it as a better deal then dell, hp at the same price in workstation hardware.

It will get workstation / sever ver of the core 7i

[Joe_the_dragon]

While I was not planning on buying a notebook this year, the announcements scared me a little: however you try to look at these, it's an increase in price and a decrease in processing power, mainly because of the LED LCD display (and the manufacturing process, maybe).

So what's in store for the desktops?

A $699 Mac mini with a 1.60GHz cpu, nvidia graphics, Superdrive and Wireless-N?

Not at all happy with the current direction!
:no:

and make psystar look like a even better deal?

When Intel p45 boards / and nvidia boards cost $100 or less

and desktop ram costs much less then laptop ram.

when good low end ati and nvidia cards are $50

and when the e8400 is about $150.

[ronster]

Too bad there was no silent update today. I hope they at least use the 9400M in the refresh...

Funny thing, this is still the lowest cost FW400 Mac now...Ibet once they change out the $999 Macbook with an ALu one, the Mac Mini will be updated.


-written on a 1.83GHz Mini

[aaarrrnnn]

Assuming they do update the Mac Mini here's what I hope they'll do:

1. Like the Macbook, no more firewire.
2. No more combo drives. All drives will be Superdrive.
3. A higher capacity hard drive.
4. A few more added USB ports.
5. Faster Core 2 Duo processor.
6. Built-in nVidia graphics.
7. Mini-DVI port
8. More built-in RAM

[Joe_the_dragon]

Assuming they do update the Mac Mini here's what I hope they'll do:

1. Like the Macbook, no more firewire.
2. No more combo drives. All drives will be Superdrive.
3. A higher capacity hard drive.
4. A few more added USB ports.
5. Faster Core 2 Duo processor.
6. Built-in nVidia graphics.
7. Mini-DVI port
8. More built-in RAM

The mini has the room for firewire.

And at $800 it will need 128-256 meg of it's own vram.

Or the $800 and up system may be that lower margin desktop system that apple was talking about.

[Phong]

Assuming they do update the Mac Mini here's what I hope they'll do:

1. Like the Macbook, no more firewire.
2. No more combo drives. All drives will be Superdrive.
3. A higher capacity hard drive.
4. A few more added USB ports.
5. Faster Core 2 Duo processor.
6. Built-in nVidia graphics.
7. Mini-DVI port
8. More built-in RAM

They can't get that for under 800. The 2.4 Ghz MB is double that and the screen can't cost that much.

Apple's low margin product is very likely the new Cinema Display. Speaking of which, shouldn't the new Mini's have DisplayPort? Maybe coming with a DP-to-HDMI adapter.

But I'm dreaming. They're never going to update it.

[Joe_the_dragon]

Assuming they do update the Mac Mini here's what I hope they'll do:

1. Like the Macbook, no more firewire.
2. No more combo drives. All drives will be Superdrive.
3. A higher capacity hard drive.
4. A few more added USB ports.
5. Faster Core 2 Duo processor.
6. Built-in nVidia graphics.
7. Mini-DVI port
8. More built-in RAM

They can't get that for under 800. The 2.4 Ghz MB is double that and the screen can't cost that much.

Apple's low margin product is very likely the new Cinema Display. Speaking of which, shouldn't the new Mini's have DisplayPort? Maybe coming with a DP-to-HDMI adapter.

But I'm dreaming. They're never going to update it.

Display port does not have sound so it will need to be Display port to DVI and mini Display port to Display port for free.

[SSA]

They can't get that for under 800. The 2.4 Ghz MB is double that and the screen can't cost that much.

The proposed changes aren't necessarily as hard as one might think. Apple AFAIK wasn't losing money on the Mac Mini a year ago and the costs of many of the components has fallen dramatically. DDR2 prices are more than half what they were a year ago and the processor on the Mac Mini has been discontinued by Intel therefore unless Apple bought a huge number of these discontinued processors then Apple hasn't been paying much for the CPUs. Furthermore, even before those processors were discontinued they weren't terribly high end.

At this point going to a SuperDrive on the base model of the Mac Mini wouldn't cost much considering that the price differential between a combo drive and a superdrive is virtually nothing. There are laptops hundreds of dollars less that have DVD burners and a screen and the vendor still manages a razor thin margin. The Mac Mini is essentially a laptop without a screen therefore, Apple should at least be able to have a machine that is on par with a $600 laptop spec wise if not slightly better.

A slight bump in HDD wouldn't cost more than $20. There are ~$600 laptops on the market with HDDs with twice the capacity of the Mac Mini and they are throwing in a small display with the deal. HDD prices have fallen considerable in the last 14 months. Apple should be able to make a bump in HDD size without bumping up the price.

The only suggestion made that might be problematic is moving towards a much more powerful graphics chipset. Upgrading the Mac Mini chipset to the same chipset as the new Macbooks may be asking a bit much insofar as the chipset not only includes the Geforce 9400, but it also includes support for DDR3. If you moved the Mac Mini to that new chipset you not only have the costs of the chipset itself, but also the cost of DDR3 memory, which at this point is considerably more expensive than DDR2. Nevertheless, below the $800 price point Apple should be able to at least put a lower end Nvidia integrated chipset like either the older Geforce 8400 or the the newer 9300. Either would be a huge improvement in graphical performance over the current Intel graphics, but I know that there are chipsets that use these GPUs that are still using DDR2.

Even a modest improvement in the base $599 model would revive sales. Apple could make slight bumps in CPU, RAM, HDD and not add a huge amount in costs, but bring life back to the sales of the Mac Mini. One thing that people forget is that there are a lot of Apple switchers that use the Mac Mini as a way to kick the tires on Mac OS without investing a lot of money into trying it out. Ultimately a certain percentage of those that remain happy with the unit may go on to buy one of the Macbooks or perhaps one of their more expensive desktop units.

[seek3r]

Assuming they do update the Mac Mini here's what I hope they'll do:

1. Like the Macbook, no more firewire.
2. No more combo drives. All drives will be Superdrive.
3. A higher capacity hard drive.
4. A few more added USB ports.
5. Faster Core 2 Duo processor.
6. Built-in nVidia graphics.
7. Mini-DVI port
8. More built-in RAM

My bet is mini-displayport (though that may be what you meant by dvi) and a magsafe power connector as the big port upgrades.

[mjteix]

The only suggestion made that might be problematic is moving towards a much more powerful graphics chipset. Upgrading the Mac Mini chipset to the same chipset as the new Macbooks may be asking a bit much insofar as the chipset not only includes the Geforce 9400, but it also includes support for DDR3. If you moved the Mac Mini to that new chipset you not only have the costs of the chipset itself, but also the cost of DDR3 memory, which at this point is considerably more expensive than DDR2. Nevertheless, below the $800 price point Apple should be able to at least put a lower end Nvidia integrated chipset like either the older Geforce 8400 or the the newer 9300. Either would be a huge improvement in graphical performance over the current Intel graphics, but I know that there are chipsets that use these GPUs that are still using DDR2.

AFAIK, the new nvidia chipset is very expensive about twice as much as a regular Intel chipset. And that maybe one of the reasons why we didn't see a speedbump on the new MBs (actually a speed decrease for the new entry level aluminium MB, that and the LED-BL display of course).

The new nvidia chipset supports DDR2-800 RAM too (the one in the current iMac). But as far as RAM is concerned, Apple currently prices all the notebook/iMac RAM the same: $75 per GB for DDR2-667/DDR2-800/DRR3-1066. Just look at the BTO options on the Apple Store: $75 to go from 1GB to 2GB and $150 to go from 2GB to 4GB. On any Mac except the MacPro/Xserve.

If you apply the same ratio between the MacBook and the Mac mini ( previous generation: $1099 to $599 is a 500 price cut), Apple should be able to make a 2.00GHz new Mac mini for $799 ($1299-500), about the same as today but with better graphics, less ports, hopefully 2GB of RAM, 160GB HDD and a Superdrive.

to seek3r: I don't think a Magsafe power connector is a good idea for a desktop computer with no battery.

The problem with the new 24" ACD is that it is made for notebooks, not as a general usage monitor. With a desktop computer, people won't know what to do with the MagSafe connector and most will miss the FW hub of the previous models. Also most of the DP video cards have a full DP connector, adding another adaptor to the mix (along with the FW800/400 adaptor...). But maybe Apple will release a "desktop" version of the 24" ADC (full size DP connector) with no MagSafe but a FW800/400 hub (FW800 on the cable and FW800 & FW400 on the back of the display), along with the current 1-to-3 USB hub.

[aaarrrnnn]

My bet is mini-displayport (though that may be what you meant by dvi) and a magsafe power connector as the big port upgrades.

Thanks for the catch. I meant mini-displayport and wrote mini-dvi instead.

[aaarrrnnn]

mjtelx

Excellent idea on getting the ratio between the previous macmini vs previous macbook with hypothetical macmini vs new macbook.

However, I do think $500 difference is a bit low. Remember that the new macbooks are built with standard glossy screens (the previous macbooks didn't have glossy screens) and that means an extra amount in favor of the new macbooks vs a hypothetical macmini.

So instead of a $799 macmini, we could be looking at a macmini between $699 to $749.

[Phong]

If you're predicting the price of a future Mac, better to err on the higher side!

[mjteix]

mjtelx

Excellent idea on getting the ratio between the previous macmini vs previous macbook with hypothetical macmini vs new macbook.

However, I do think $500 difference is a bit low. Remember that the new macbooks are built with standard glossy screens (the previous macbooks didn't have glossy screens) and that means an extra amount in favor of the new macbooks vs a hypothetical macmini.

So instead of a $799 macmini, we could be looking at a macmini between $699 to $749.

That's right, I do believe that the increase in price of the new MB is due to the LED-BL display, but remember that the previous MB had a GM965 chipset and a 2.1GHz cpu while the base Mac mini has an older chipset (GMA950) and an older 1.83GHz cpu. Those differences have to cost something. Compared to the current $700 Mac mini, the proposed nvidia one has: better graphics, possibly a better 2.00GHz cpu (?), more RAM and a bigger HDD, will lack FW, though.

Anyway, $699/799 for a better Mac mini is better than keeping with the current model as is.

[Ireland]

The Mac mini is dead. Deal with it.

[Joe_the_dragon]

The Mac mini is dead. Deal with it.

Ok so efix and Psystar are free to fill that gap.

[Hudson1]

The Mac mini is dead. Deal with it.
The mini dead. Long live the mini!

http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/mac_mini

[Marvin]

The Mac mini is dead. Deal with it.

The notion that Apple will be making a TV is dead. Deal with that. :p

I don't think the Mini is dead, it's just deliberately held down. I get the impression they are trying to protect the iMac but mainly it will be a about profits. The margins are lower so they choose to push the same hardware longer.

Even if they tore off the head from the Macbook, dropped the battery and sold it, I would buy one as a home desktop. The speakers would be better than the current Mini at least. It needs to keep firewire though.

Product: Mac mini
Recommendation: Don't Buy - Updates soon
Last Release: August 07, 2007
Days Since Update 437 (Avg = 188)

It's actually only been just over a year since it was updated to be fair - although was that just a CPU increase? I can't remember now. The Mac Pro update took over a year to update once too - they only bumped the CPU up in the middle. The Mini hasn't been updated that many times in its whole lifetime so it's difficult to set trends on it. It just seems so much longer when Apple pays more attention to their favorite models.

If Apple do one more round of iMac and Mac Pro updates without touching the Mini, I think it will add strength to the fact that Apple are now run by complete jackasses and mean the Mini is pretty much done as a viable desktop.

If we reach next July and no updates, it's over. They stopped orders for the processors in them this May and will stop shipping next July:

http://www.slashgear.com/intel-to-discontinue-seven-merom-based-core-2-duo-299953/

So for the last 6 months, Apple have just been eating away at their quota. No more new orders placed. They simply have to run out eventually. It's kind of a catch-22 though. If they don't sell enough then they won't update, if they don't update, fewer people will buy.

The Core i7 is coming in November for the Mac Pro and the iMac is reaching the end of its update cycle. I would hope that the Mini will tag along on the back of either one of those updates. Given that the Mac Pro will likely be just a CPU improvement (albeit a huge one), the Mini is more likely to tag onto the iMac update like it did one time before.

It should get 2GB Ram, Penryn, Nvidia chips, faster drives, displayport, magsafe, all metal shell. This will hold it steady for another year and give me a happy Christmas for the first time in a long while.

I don't see them doing them all together and I reckon the Mini and iMac would make more sense to update before Christmas for consumers and update the Pro in January like they did this year. It will be a sound-bite for Jobs at MW to say they've transitioned their whole lineup to environmentally friendly material and a consistent look.

They better not put a black top on the Mini though. Silver top with a white logo only.

[Joe_the_dragon]

The Mac mini is dead. Deal with it.

The notion that Apple will be making a TV is dead. Deal with that. :p

I don't think the Mini is dead, it's just deliberately held down. I get the impression they are trying to protect the iMac but mainly it will be a about profits. The margins are lower so they choose to push the same hardware longer.

Even if they tore off the head from the Macbook, dropped the battery and sold it, I would buy one as a home desktop. The speakers would be better than the current Mini at least. It needs to keep firewire though.

Product: Mac mini
Recommendation: Don't Buy - Updates soon
Last Release: August 07, 2007
Days Since Update 437 (Avg = 188)

It's actually only been just over a year since it was updated to be fair - although was that just a CPU increase? I can't remember now. The Mac Pro update took over a year to update once too - they only bumped the CPU up in the middle. The Mini hasn't been updated that many times in its whole lifetime so it's difficult to set trends on it. It just seems so much longer when Apple pays more attention to their favorite models.

If Apple do one more round of iMac and Mac Pro updates without touching the Mini, I think it will add strength to the fact that Apple are now run by complete jackasses and mean the Mini is pretty much done as a viable desktop.

If we reach next July and no updates, it's over. They stopped orders for the processors in them this May and will stop shipping next July:

http://www.slashgear.com/intel-to-discontinue-seven-merom-based-core-2-duo-299953/

So for the last 6 months, Apple have just been eating away at their quota. No more new orders placed. They simply have to run out eventually. It's kind of a catch-22 though. If they don't sell enough then they won't update, if they don't update, fewer people will buy.

The Core i7 is coming in November for the Mac Pro and the iMac is reaching the end of its update cycle. I would hope that the Mini will tag along on the back of either one of those updates. Given that the Mac Pro will likely be just a CPU improvement (albeit a huge one), the Mini is more likely to tag onto the iMac update like it did one time before.

It should get 2GB Ram, Penryn, Nvidia chips, faster drives, displayport, magsafe, all metal shell. This will hold it steady for another year and give me a happy Christmas for the first time in a long while.

I don't see them doing them all together and I reckon the Mini and iMac would make more sense to update before Christmas for consumers and update the Pro in January like they did this year. It will be a sound-bite for Jobs at MW to say they've transitioned their whole lineup to environmentally friendly material and a consistent look.

They better not put a black top on the Mini though. Silver top with a white logo only.
magsafe on a desktop?

[MacRonin]

magsafe on a desktop?

Looking at the cabling provided on the new 24" LED Cinema Display, one would think that MagSafe on a new Mac mini would make sense, and it would get away from that ugly power brick the mini currently uses...

[Outsider]

Looking at the cabling provided on the new 24" LED Cinema Display, one would think that MagSafe on a new Mac mini would make sense, and it would get away from that ugly power brick the mini currently uses...

It would hopefully have some sort of catch to keep it firmly in place in order to prevent accidental disconnections.

[Phong]

Okay, how about this: the Mac Pro updated at MacWorld with a new environmental brick design and the one more thing looks the same but smaller. Mac mini. I don't know, I got nothing.

Apple's lineup looks about the same if you take the Mini out, so apparently professionals are the only ones who don't need a new monitor.

This is sort of like that year they made all the PowerMacs with dual processors, and you had to buy an iMac if all you needed was one. Can't a guy just buy a normal mid range Mac?

[FuturePastNow]

Looking at the cabling provided on the new 24" LED Cinema Display, one would think that MagSafe on a new Mac mini would make sense, and it would get away from that ugly power brick the mini currently uses...

Do you seriously believe that many Mac mini buyers would also be in the market for a $900 LCD?

[wizard69]

Do you seriously believe that many Mac mini buyers would also be in the market for a $900 LCD?

Let's face it the Mini doesn't make sense economically as it is now. If Apple goes the route of a MagSafe Mini they are then able to unbundle the power supply. This leads to the appearance of a much lower cost introductory machine.

From the standpoint of standardized part a MagSafe mini would be a win also as Apple could sell the same old laptop power supplies for it. The biggest problem on the Mini would be in planned disconnects, these could be handled with an alarm and a super capacitor. A latch might help but then you loose the biggest reason to use MagSafe in the first place. Frankly the issue with disconnects isn't much worst than what you have on the Mini now.

In any event I think many here need to look at the newly debuted products again because they are telegraphing what MWSF will look like. For one I expect a rapid transition to Display Port. I would also not be surprised to see a Mini replacement that is incredibly small. Small enough to clip on the back of a monitor. A step up from there would be a Mini type machine that is slightly more substantial than the current.

The thing is if you think about Atom and some of intels Laptop chips coming you will realize that there are all sorts of possibilities for extremely compact designs. The only limitation on size would be the RAM module if they used one.


Dave

[MacRonin]

Do you seriously believe that many Mac mini buyers would also be in the market for a $900 LCD?

Until Apple reveals a new 20" LED Cinema Display, the only choice for a matching Apple monitor would be the 24" LED Cinema Display...

And the 20" model would still be US$599, if they follow the same pricing as they did with the 24" makeover, so still expensive.

But you want your kit to match, don't you...?!?

[Joe_the_dragon]

Let's face it the Mini doesn't make sense economically as it is now. If Apple goes the route of a MagSafe Mini they are then able to unbundle the power supply. This leads to the appearance of a much lower cost introductory machine.

From the standpoint of standardized part a MagSafe mini would be a win also as Apple could sell the same old laptop power supplies for it. The biggest problem on the Mini would be in planned disconnects, these could be handled with an alarm and a super capacitor. A latch might help but then you loose the biggest reason to use MagSafe in the first place. Frankly the issue with disconnects isn't much worst than what you have on the Mini now.

In any event I think many here need to look at the newly debuted products again because they are telegraphing what MWSF will look like. For one I expect a rapid transition to Display Port. I would also not be surprised to see a Mini replacement that is incredibly small. Small enough to clip on the back of a monitor. A step up from there would be a Mini type machine that is slightly more substantial than the current.

The thing is if you think about Atom and some of intels Laptop chips coming you will realize that there are all sorts of possibilities for extremely compact designs. The only limitation on size would be the RAM module if they used one.


Dave
The Atom uses the same or weak gpu as the mini has now and dose not even have gig-e. Max 1gb of ram. Not only that IT IS SLOWER.

Apple can't do that then they are just asking for efix and Pystar to beat them.

[mjteix]

Let's face it the Mini doesn't make sense economically as it is now. If Apple goes the route of a MagSafe Mini they are then able to unbundle the power supply. This leads to the appearance of a much lower cost introductory machine.

From the standpoint of standardized part a MagSafe mini would be a win also as Apple could sell the same old laptop power supplies for it. The biggest problem on the Mini would be in planned disconnects, these could be handled with an alarm and a super capacitor. A latch might help but then you loose the biggest reason to use MagSafe in the first place. Frankly the issue with disconnects isn't much worst than what you have on the Mini now.

In any event I think many here need to look at the newly debuted products again because they are telegraphing what MWSF will look like. For one I expect a rapid transition to Display Port. I would also not be surprised to see a Mini replacement that is incredibly small. Small enough to clip on the back of a monitor. A step up from there would be a Mini type machine that is slightly more substantial than the current.

The thing is if you think about Atom and some of intels Laptop chips coming you will realize that there are all sorts of possibilities for extremely compact designs. The only limitation on size would be the RAM module if they used one.


Dave

This is too complicated. If they want to leverage the costs by using a MB Magsafe power adapter for the Mac Mini, they just have to include an adaptor in which the Magsafe connector (from the power adaptor or the display cable) is plugged in and locked, and on the other end a standard power plug to the Mac mini.

I also expect a rapid transition to (mini) Displayport on all Macs and the release on another (expensive) 20" LED-BL stand-alone display ($599) as well as LED-BL inclusion on the future iMacs (expect another (small) price increase, just like what happened for the new 13" MacBooks).

For the Mac mini, the size limitation is not the RAM module(s) but the drives (optical and HDD). Unless Apple choose to take away the optical and/or replace the 2.5" HDD with a 1.8" one, they cannot make the Mac mini really smaller, IMO.

I agree with others, Atom+current chipset is not powerful to compete with even the current Mac mini. Until Snow Leopard (that is supposed to be able to better handle multiple cores) and a better chipset from Intel, I don't think Apple will use Atom on any Mac.

[Frank777]

I still don't get what the obsession is with making the Mini smaller. This is a desktop computer.

[bayareamacaddict]

oct 14 was for notebooks mini will be seen at macworld 09 for sure

[Phong]

oct 14 was for notebooks mini will be seen at macworld 09 for sure

It will never be seen. Obviously, and as Apple well knows, only pros buy a computer without a monitor.

[wizard69]

The Atom uses the same or weak gpu as the mini has now and dose not even have gig-e

There are a couple bthings to note. First there are different variants of Atom and the support chips that work with it. Second Apple doesn't even use Intel gig-E laptop chips instead use Broad com. Besides Intel is working continiusly on the Atom line, there is no reason why they could be working on a special for Apple.



Max 1gb of ram.

Where did that come from?


Not only that IT IS SLOWER.

Only if you look at single thread performance. That clock for clock. If you up the clock rate by half yet keep the power profile manageable. It more about prformance perwatt than anything.



Apple can't do that then they are just asking for efix and Pystar to beat them.

I don't know about that if Apple can offer up a power efficent and usable computer for $250 I think a lot of people would sign up. In any event your profit come not from what you can sell something at but what it costs you to buy!



Dave


h

[TheMadMilkman]

It will never be seen. Obviously, and as Apple well knows, only pros buy a computer without a monitor.

This is both true and infuriating.

[wizard69]

This is both true and infuriating.


In the past I've gotten 2 to 3 computer chassis out of a monitor. Of course that is due inpart to fast moving technology and personal needs. The reality is though that CPU tech changes faster than display tech.

Frankly that is what makes Apples new monitor interesting and desirable. It marks a shift in technology with an eye on the future. That means a monitor that might actually be useful with 2-3 generations of computing hardware.

I know some are disappointed with the lack of backward compatibility but breaking with the pack takes strong leadership and I see this as one move that Apple got right. I don't say that lightly either as I'm an owner of a MBP new early this year. I would love to hook up this new monitor to that MBP, but realize that isn't going to happen as Apple is showing a little leadership here.



Dave

[Phong]

Apple wants to push its customers into buying the next highest margin product. If there's going to be an iMac update soon, then I guess it's safe to say that there won't be a Mini update until after Christmas, if ever, since it would lure away people who might otherwise convince themselves to buy an iMac.

I remember having mixed feelings about the Mini's launch. It didn't seem like an Apple thing to do, to purposefully design something low cost. It seemed like they were acknowledging the fact they didn't really want you to buy it. They wanted you to try it and see the glorious light that an all-in-one Mac could bring.

I've never been really angry at Apple for there marketing and business decisions, but I sort of am now. They opened the low cost / efficiency door, perhaps dishonestly, and now it looks like they're shutting it.

The only thing I can imagine them doing that would make it okay, is if they were holding off for environmental reasons as well. Efficiency, low cost, and a clean evironment often go together, which is why their ignorance of the Mini is so puzzling. Maybe what they really want is for people to buy their easily recyclable and green displays and they're holding back on the Mini until they're released? Otherwise people will keep buying monitors that aren't as environmentally friendly.

I don't know, though. I could really be scraping the bottom of the barrel of ideas on this one, but it sounds okay to my Eco-libertarian ears.

[Marvin]

Apple wants to push its customers into buying the next highest margin product. If there's going to be an iMac update soon, then I guess it's safe to say that there won't be a Mini update until after Christmas, if ever, since it would lure away people who might otherwise convince themselves to buy an iMac.

I'm not sure about that because if they continue to sell the Mini the way it is, Jobs can't go on stage at MW and talk about being environmentally friendly across the lineup. The Mini still has plastic in it. Plus they bumped up the Mini one time the iMac was updated. It's true it wasn't explicit so there is the impression Apple don't want you to buy it.

Not to mention, there will be a push for GPU computing so there will be Nvidia chips across the lineup. I can see the low end iMac ATI chips being replaced with the Nvidia 9400M and possibly the 9800M GT in the higher end models. If the Mini doesn't get the Nvidia integrated chip then it simply won't be able to do any of this stuff and it will be quite obvious that Apple are holding it down.

Maybe what they really want is for people to buy their easily recyclable and green displays and they're holding back on the Mini until they're released? Otherwise people will keep buying monitors that aren't as environmentally friendly.

Well, they already make a Cinema display that they say is made for the Macbook. I'm not sure exactly which Macbook owners would buy a $900 display but they could say the same for the Mini if they include Mini-Displayport.

I don't think Apple would mind if people bought a $600 Mini vs a $1100 iMac if they also bought a $900 display with it.

[Rokken]

I hope we are going to see Mini feature in the iMac event next month as the "One more thing". I really wanna get my parents a mini to save them from all those Windows hassles.

[dukee101]

I don't want to make this thread too repetitive, but it's safe to list what we can DEFINITELY expect come November:

There will be the iMac update that will move to nVidia chips and DisplayPort. If they're gonna kill the mini, it won't be mentioned during this time and that'll be the end. If they will continue to support that market segment, then they'll announce a revamped mini with the same nVidia chips, DisplayPort, more recent (notice not necessarily faster) CPU's, more RAM, larger HDD's, etc...

All that is for certain. What's not for certain is if they're going to kill the mini or not.

Another catch-22 no body mentioned is that although one may think that Apple uses the mini to sort of 'lure' people into the Mac experience at a low-price point in the hopes that they'll buy into a more expensive iMac, one may fail to realize that the mini is so underpowered compared to other similarly priced alternatives that it no longer is able to 'lure' anybody anymore to begin with!

[Tommyr]

I love my PPC Mini, it's been running 24/7 for 4 years now. Never let's me down. It's my main machine.

Update it Apple! They could even make it a little larger and I'd still be happy. They don't need a mini tower, that sucks. Make a slightly larger, more easily upgradable Mini! I'll buy one the day it comes out!

Tom

[SSA]

I still don't get what the obsession is with making the Mini smaller. This is a desktop computer.

Agreed. This is why I have always thought Apple should have maybe a slimline tower with some type of Apple panache that uses 3.5" HDDs so that it would make a perfect little Apple branded media center. The 2.5" HDD makes the Mac Mini small, but it forces the tradeoff of smaller capacity hard drives. I would obviously prefer a minitower, but even a mid range $800 slimline media center with TV Tuner and a 750GB or 1TB hard drive that offered a really intuitive UI would be a hot seller. Another option would be to have a home theater PC form factor so that you would place it on your television stand. There have been a few vendors(eg. Sony) that have made forays into this market, but Windows Media Center has never really captured the imagination of the masses.

Short of removing the optical drive Apple couldn't really make the Mac Mini any thinner. I am befuddled by the constant hum drum about how we need to make everything thinner and more chic even at the cost of features that people actually use. While Apple has brought in a lot of customers by getting associated with chic factor, there is a point where you can make form factor so important that you alienate a lot of your existing customers that use Macs for reasons other than having a pretty looking computer.

Personally I would like to see Apple retain the current Mac Mini design, but introduce also introduce a Mac media center box as well. Obviously with the Mac Mini Apple needs to make an obligatory bump in the processor in chipset and CPU since Intel is discontinuing the components used in the Mac Mini and slight improvement in HDD wouldn't cost much. I would also like to see Apple slightly cut the price to $550 if not $499. I wouldn't want Apple going any lower than that because they would start losing too much margin to the point where they would start losing money, but at the current price point the Mac Mini isn't very effective at bring customers into the Apple fold. With a slightly lower price point they would be able to pique the interest of a lot more customers which would bring a lot more users into the Apple userbase.

[iDave]

It will never be seen. Obviously, and as Apple well knows, only pros buy a computer without a monitor.
Tell that to the gazillion WinPC users out there. Their PCs die and they go to Best Buy and get another for $500. Apple needs to continue to offer the same (mini, at a higher price than PCs of course). Most computer buyers aren't buying monitors at the same time. (Or perhaps you were being sarcastic.)

On another subject, what's this thought that Apple will again be making monitors that connect only to their own products? Didn't they try and fail miserably with ADC several years ago? ADC was the biggest hassle ever invented. There's no way I would buy a monitor with a magsafe power supply hanging off it, glossy display and mini DisplayPort as the only options; especially for $900. What is Apple thinking? If they want to push mini DisplayPort and magsafe connectors, DVI should be there too. And matte screens for people who aren't into shiny things. Duh. :no:

I hope the new 24" display is a one-of-a-kind product for the MacBooks and it ends there.

[the_steve]

...I have always thought Apple should have maybe a slimline tower with some type of Apple panache that uses 3.5" HDDs so that it would make a perfect little Apple branded media center. The 2.5" HDD makes the Mac Mini small, but it forces the tradeoff of smaller capacity hard drives.

When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.

[DOSbox-gamer]

If Apple doesn't do anything else with the mini, if they update the graphics, I'll be a happy camper. And I suspect sales will pick up quite nicely, too.

[joelsalt]

When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.

this may be true: but the mac mini uses laptop components right?

If it were bigger and could use desktop components wouldn't it be cheaper?

[Marvin]

On another subject, what's this thought that Apple will again be making monitors that connect only to their own products? Didn't they try and fail miserably with ADC several years ago? ADC was the biggest hassle ever invented.

If there are adaptors, it should be ok. Perhaps Apple are banking on people adopting Mini-Displayport given that Displayport isn't implemented widely. Similar deal with AAC and online music. Trouble is, they aren't going to achieve a wide adoption with the prices they've put on both their displays and computer models. If there is no way for a PC to connect to their displays and Mini-Displayport isn't adopted as some sort of standard, I could see it ending up similar to ADC.

This will only affect their display line though.

There's no way I would buy a monitor with a magsafe power supply hanging off it

Definitely not if you don't have a machine requiring magsafe - it looks a bit dangerous to have that floating about. Like if there's a screwdriver sitting on your desk, what if it hits the contacts? I guess you could always put a cap on it. I'm not sure where the cables come from either. There is the standard AC cable powering the display and the 3-plug cable comes from somewhere but I can't see the port on the back.

I presume the display must have a kensington lock on it somewhere too.

This is one reason the Mini might get magsafe though. Imagine not having the power brick at all. You would just have one power cable like the iMac. If they made the display 1/3 the price and matte, I'd be very interested in that.

[Hudson1]

When are people going to get a clue about hard drives?? You can get 500 GB 2.5 inch hard drives now with performance that's competitive with 3.5 inch drives. There are very few consumers that have any need for anything larger or faster, and those that do can use external drives. The 3.5 inch form factor will probably disappear completely in the consumer market within the next year or two.
Here's a clue.... There are only two 500GB drives in 2.5" size that I can find: one by Samsung and one by Hitachi. They both cost about $65 to $75 more than the large number of 500GB drives in 3.5" size. How many people would trade the current mini's size for one with the footprint of Apple TV (only 1.2" larger on the side) if it resulted in a computer that cost $65 to $75 less? I sure would.

Also, if I follow your logic I come to the conclusion that Apple should be building iMacs with 2.5" drives, not the 3.5" drives that they use.

[Daniel B]

Hi,

I think the Mini will be phased out in favour of an updated Apple TV. The Apple TV could be significantly improved with a software update (Take 3), to become a more stand-alone media/home server machine.

Take 3 features:

- iTunes (stand-alone)
- Safari
- External disks via USB
- Keyboard and mouse

Adding those features would make it very attractive package. Perhaps too good.

A dream would be adding AppStore, with games and applications - but I don't see that as very likely.

/Daniel

[joelsalt]

This is one reason the Mini might get magsafe though. Imagine not having the power brick at all. You would just have one power cable like the iMac. If they made the display 1/3 the price and matte, I'd be very interested in that.

If it has a miniDP ... couldn't you potentially buy the new monitor and power the mini just the same as you could power a laptop.

It seems weirdly close to the iMac, but far enough away that it could work.

[DHagan4755]

If Apple does update the Mac mini, do you think they will change that big brick of a power adapter to Mag Safe? Then folks that wanted the Apple display could power their Mac mini through their display.

[pkin]

I was also concerned about whether the mac mini line will continue. So I spoke with executive support @apple and they gave every indication that a refresh of some sort will occur in due time. They know the mini is popular and fills a unique niche for their corporate end education buyers. Apple is not going to tip their hand, so we will wait and see....

[Phong]

I was also concerned about whether the mac mini line will continue. So I spoke with executive support @apple and they gave every indication that a refresh of some sort will occur in due time. They know the mini is popular and fills a unique niche for their corporate end education buyers. Apple is not going to tip their hand, so we will wait and see....

What sort of indications? Did they actually say that they're planning an update?

Today's article about Nvidia from AppleInsider mentions that they receieved a challenge from an unknown source to make their next desktop offering small enough for media center PCs. I'd bet that source was Apple and they were talking about the Mini. The Mini was meant to draw PC users, many of whom are gamers. Without a discrete graphics card, though, it was clear that the Mini could not be used as a modern gaming machine. It looks like that could change.

[Anklosaur]

Well it seems Gizmodo has offered up Yet Another Story (http://gizmodo.com/5066531/apple-stops-mac-mini-shipments-to-retailers-says-to-expect-no-more) that the Mini is dead. Remains to be seen. I have a hunch that something might be announced during the financials report later today. Guess we'll see.

Personally, I need a laptop and would like a sister desktop but there's no way I can afford a Macbook Pro and a Mac Pro nor do I need all that horsepower. I could justify a Macbook Pro and an inexpensive but feature rich desktop... probably never happen though.

[Joe_the_dragon]

What sort of indications? Did they actually say that they're planning an update?

Today's article about Nvidia from AppleInsider mentions that they receieved a challenge from an unknown source to make their next desktop offering small enough for media center PCs. I'd bet that source was Apple and they were talking about the Mini. The Mini was meant to draw PC users, many of whom are gamers. Without a discrete graphics card, though, it was clear that the Mini could not be used as a modern gaming machine. It looks like that could change.

on board video that uses system ram with no pci-e slot does not make a modern gaming machine.

[dstranathan]

From macnn.com

Apple halting Mac mini shipments?...

Apple is currently telling at least some retailers not to expect further Mac mini shipments, according to reports sent to Gizmodo. At least two "major" European outlets say they have been told by Apple not to anticipate more units of the small desktop and get the impression from their Apple sources that the system has been discontinued outright and isn't just encountering a temporary interruption in supply.

[Marvin]

Apple is currently telling at least some retailers not to expect further Mac mini shipments, according to reports sent to Gizmodo. At least two "major" European outlets say they have been told by Apple not to anticipate more units of the small desktop and get the impression from their Apple sources that the system has been discontinued outright and isn't just encountering a temporary interruption in supply.

If they do discontinue it and offer no replacement, Apple will have entry points for laptops at $999 (it's really $1299 though) and for desktops at $1199. That's just a very stupid thing to do right now.

I actually wouldn't mind seeing the Mini go *if* they replace it with a Cube. The impression that people get from a Mini is a lack of power and to some extent that's true but it's not really that bad.

A Cube suggests it's more powerful and since it's bigger, it can take cheaper parts. Even if they inflate the margins, a $600 or $700 Cube will be a profitable computer. At $400 less than the iMac, it will still sell.

They could possibly drop the entry price of the iMac though by using Nvidia integrated chips vs the ATI dedicated chips but I don't see it dropping very far.

It's still going to annoy a lot of people who use the Mini in all sorts of ways like server racks, as car stereos etc.

[PB]

From macnn.com

Apple halting Mac mini shipments?...

Hardmac (http://hardmac.com/news/2008-10-22/#9056) too confirms. It was AI's sources that gave it the EOL status long ago, no?

[Phong]

Hardmac (http://hardmac.com/news/2008-10-22/#9056) too confirms. It was AI's sources that gave it the EOL status long ago, no?

Very long ago. So long that AI's sources later said that it was due for a significant update, which was back in March.

The Mini's death has been predicted year after year by others. Trouble is, it hasn't been updated year after year either.

[mcarling]

At amazon.com, the Mini outsells the iMac. If the Mini is selling so well, perhaps it doesn't need an update yet. Perhaps we'll see an updated Mini only after the iMacs have been updated.

[Marvin]

At amazon.com, the Mini outsells the iMac. If the Mini is selling so well, perhaps it doesn't need an update yet. Perhaps we'll see an updated Mini only after the iMacs have been updated.

The matte MBP also outsells every other model. Guess those people aren't any of the capital V Vast majority.

The Mini is even more popular than the old Macbook on Amazon. Perhaps it's only selling well now that people have the rumor Apple are murdering it. I like the word murder as it sounds more criminal than killing.

It makes no sense to get rid of it. When the Mini represented good value, it sold well:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/06/05/08/apples_intel_mac_mini_sales_surprise_analysts.html

If they try to sell two year old hardware with no price drop, people aren't going to keep buying. This is also going to create another firewire scenario. If they remove it, what are people supposed to do to upgrade? Move to a Mac Pro? They can't move to an iMac as it's not the same setup and it costs nearly double.

[wizard69]

The matte MBP also outsells every other model. Guess those people aren't any of the capital V Vast majority.

Hey I have a Matte MBP, it is nice but lets be honest it is far from the last word in a portable computer screen.


The Mini is even more popular than the old Macbook on Amazon. Perhaps it's only selling well now that people have the rumor Apple are murdering it. I like the word murder as it sounds more criminal than killing.

I really don't get this attitude, for more than a year everybody has been whining about how the Mini needs an update and then when the signs seem to indicate that that is about to happen we get this emotional crap. People should be ecstatic that the current Mini is no longer available because that means Apple has new products coming on line. Frankly coming on line sooner than many thought.

I mean lets face it after the mac Book updates many weren't expecting anything new until MWSF. This could be an indication that Apple will have something significant for the Christmas shopping season. This actually could be seen a a change in tactics at Apple.


It makes no sense to get rid of it. When the Mini represented good value, it sold well:

Makes all the sense in the world! I mean really I don't get it, Apple has the opportunity to do what every one has been crying in their milk about for more than a year and now it makes no sense. Look at it this way Apple has just about all the ingredients in place to make a major transition here. It has new Nvidia chips, Intel chips and manufacturing techniques. I can't believe you guys are so blind that you can't see the good things are about to happen.


http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/06/05/08/apples_intel_mac_mini_sales_surprise_analysts.html

If they try to sell two year old hardware with no price drop, people aren't going to keep buying. This is also going to create another firewire scenario. If they remove it, what are people supposed to do to upgrade? Move to a Mac Pro? They can't move to an iMac as it's not the same setup and it costs nearly double.

Again whining about something that isn't even here serves no purpose at all. The fact is the computer industry is in a era of major transition. Between DisPlay Port at one end and SSD at the other backward compatibility is going to be hard to maintain while moving forward. Instead of looking at it as a negative, extract the good things out of it.

As a side note if those Firewire devices are hard drives shouldn't you be thinking about updating them anyways? Frankly the whine about not being able to use a five year old disk drive, with a Firewire interface, on a new Mac is getting a little OLD. Why would one bother with one of the least reliable devices on the market on a brand new Mac?

Dave

[iDave]

Why would one bother with one of the least reliable devices on the market on a brand new Mac?
Huh? :???:

[Marvin]

Hey I have a Matte MBP, it is nice but lets be honest it is far from the last word in a portable computer screen.

I was just saying it's one of the best selling models.

I really don't get this attitude, for more than a year everybody has been whining about how the Mini needs an update and then when the signs seem to indicate that that is about to happen we get this emotional crap. People should be ecstatic that the current Mini is no longer available because that means Apple has new products coming on line. Frankly coming on line sooner than many thought.

The rumor is of the Mini being discontinued, not of being updated. People have been told to expect no further orders.

I mean lets face it after the mac Book updates many weren't expecting anything new until MWSF.

I was expecting everything to be updated before then. Core i7 is out in November for the Mac Pro.

I can't believe you guys are so blind that you can't see the good things are about to happen.

I'm sure we can all see what could happen but Apple could have done this many times and has simply not bothered. However, they have shown time and time again that all they like is the iMac and this rumor of the Mini being discontinued with the constant mentions of not wanting to make cheap machines and the price increases in the laptop line. I'm not expecting great things from them.

Instead of looking at it as a negative, extract the good things out of it.

If they discontinue the Mini, there are no good things to come out of it if they don't replace it with something better.

As a side note if those Firewire devices are hard drives shouldn't you be thinking about updating them anyways? Frankly the whine about not being able to use a five year old disk drive, with a Firewire interface, on a new Mac is getting a little OLD. Why would one bother with one of the least reliable devices on the market on a brand new Mac?

I don't want this thread to turn into a firewire debate but what you said makes no sense. Brand new devices come with firewire and my devices are actually just a year old and completely reliable - as well as 30% faster than the USB equivalent.

[460FILMS]

My stupid $0.02 . . .

I've just converted to all iMacs from PCs. I had also planned to buy at least two additional, MacMinis to use as home theater PCs (HTPCs), until I read the MacRumors Buyers' Guide recommendation. Here's what I think (based on nothing more than my own stupid thoughts) that Apple had initially planned for the MacMini, and what they may be preparing for its future . . .

1. The MacMini's original product concept was to provide an entry-level, "platform-switching" product, targeted to PC users. The success of this strategy, I imagine, is unknown.
2. The AppleTV product may eclipse the MacMini as a more "modern" product concept in Apple's view.
3. Since margins are important to Apple, and the fact that a "power-user" MacMini would potentially cannibalize sales of 20" iMacs, I would expect Apple not to invest any further resources in a product that may or may not have succeeded toward achieving its intended marketing tactic, and/or may have out-lived out its initial purpose (converting PC users to Macs with lower-price point product).
4. I highly doubt that any significantly new or different form factors are likely to be introduced by Apple anytime soon, or ever. No brick, no cube, no mini-tower. Maybe, a tablet someday.
5. As mentioned here previously, that if anything, isn't it far more likely that the AppleTV product would be beefed up to serve as an HTPC, rather than investing more resources in making a more powerful MacMini--you know, in that corporate, bean-counter, bottom-line kinda way of thinking?

That being said, a slightly more capable MacMini would be welcome news. Its form factor makes for a great home theater PC, although I still don't get the reasons for the complete absence of any HDMI I/O among any of Apple's current line-up. Home theater was my initial application for my intended purchase of two MacMinis, but as far as I know, there remain a number of issues with audio-over-DVI.

Regardless of these estimations, the MacMini is still so attractive to me in so many ways. Its form factor is what makes the mini unique. They can serve as STBs, HTPCs, home automation PCs, surveillance control systems (although no OS X-based software exists for these applications), kiosk machines, and my most-favored, most-anticipated application, electronic video art installations. The MacMini is such a special, neat little machine. For hobbyists, for educators, kids, grandmas, etc, they're just great little machines for those applications and those users which DON'T need a lot of power or capability. Does the Gizmodo article portend EOL for the mini, or a new model refresh for the holidays? I really hope it's the latter, but, I'm guessing it'll be the former. Guess I'll just hold my breath (c'mon Apple, refresh the MacMini and I'll buy a huge pile of 'em!).

[Ireland]

We could all sit here arguing why or why not the mini should or should not stick around, but the bottom line is it likely doesn't sell well enough or make enough profit per unit for Apple. We can scream and shout all we want, but my hunch is it's only a matter of time until the mini disappears from Apple's stores, online and physical.

[Phong]

I don't understand the notion that a midrange Mini would cannibalize sales from the iMac. The products would be built for very different markets. The iMac is for grandmas, people who like shiny things, and others who don't think much about a computer purchase. The Mid-mini would be for those who used to be (possibly still are) the backbone of the consumer level computer market -- geeks, artists, and people interested in technology. People who think different. Remember them? There are a lot and they don't need to buy another monitor.

[Ireland]

I don't understand the notion that a midrange Mini would cannibalize sales from the iMac.

Well start understanding cause I've personally heard people debate, which to buy; the mini or the iMac.

The iMac is for grandmas, people who like shiny things, and others who don't think much about a computer purchase.

That's just downright rude. Besides, the best business practice is not to only sell to those you think will buy, but to everyone who does. You are fooling yourself if that's how you view the iMac.

[iDave]

That's pretty much how I view the iMac too, so Phong's not alone.

[robb01]

We could all sit here arguing why or why not the mini should or should not stick around, but the bottom line is it likely doesn't sell well enough or make enough profit per unit for Apple. We can scream and shout all we want, but my hunch is it's only a matter of time until the mini disappears from Apple's stores, online and physical.

I agree, this is just a smart business decision folks

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[Marvin]

The AppleTV product may eclipse the MacMini as a more "modern" product concept in Apple's view.

It's a different market though. The current high end ATV is $329 and the low end Mini is $599. If they remove the optical drive from the current Mini and bring the price in line with what the components are worth, it could go down to maybe $399. This runs the full OS X system and it has a better CPU and would run a good bit cooler than the current ATV so in that respect, it would make a pretty good ATV upgrade.

If they updated it to newer chips and Nvidia GPUs, the price wouldn't drop though and I think they may have to as they can't order any more of the chips inside them. It also would be simply a TV device with component and HDMI outputs and it wouldn't need the newer components. The Nvidia chipset could make it into a decent home gaming system though - it would compete with the Wii and games could be downloaded over the itunes store.

I highly doubt that any significantly new or different form factors are likely to be introduced by Apple anytime soon, or ever. No brick, no cube, no mini-tower. Maybe, a tablet someday.

It would be a shame. I saw one of the little Dell towers today and I thought it was great. It might have been the optiplex:

http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/optix?c=us&cs=555&l=en&s=biz

Far left of the options. It's the Dell Optiplex 755 Ultra Small Form factor. I configured one with a 3.33GHz Core 2 Duo. It came to $1325. The iMac tops out at 3.06GHz and it costs $2199. The Dell only has integrated Intel X3100 graphics though. Apple using Nvidia integrated would get round this.

It was in a doctor's consulting office I saw it next to a window hooked up to a matte LCD viewing X-Rays. The whole hospital had the same models in every consultation room (I say every room but it was really just a lot of rooms because I got lost, I probably counted some twice - seriously, what is up with the sign posts in those places?).

For there being no market for this, there sure were a lot of doctors using them. Not grandmas, not TV addicts, professionals who need to get serious work done. I'm sure if they had an easy to use unix system, they'd manage a little better. But hey who cares about doctors, dentists, architects, lawyers (you can ignore lawyers) - all those professionals who just need an affordable, attractive little headless desktop.

Of course, who's to say they would switch but there is certainly no incentive to do so without something to switch to.

That's pretty much how I view the iMac too, so Phong's not alone.

Me too. Everybody I know who has them conform to that description. It won't apply to everyone so people who own an iMac shouldn't think it applies to them automatically. The selling point is simplicity and that doesn't affect me at all. I couldn't care less if there were a hundred cables behind my machine. I know what they all do and where they're supposed to go. What I care about is being able to replace components when they fail so I can have as little downtime as possible. Basic users don't care about this. They can live quite happily with their machine at the repair center for 2-3 weeks.

[460FILMS]

I don't understand the notion that a midrange Mini would cannibalize sales from the iMac. The products would be built for very different markets. The iMac is for grandmas, people who like shiny things, and others who don't think much about a computer purchase. The Mid-mini would be for those who used to be (possibly still are) the backbone of the consumer level computer market -- geeks, artists, and people interested in technology. People who think different. Remember them? There are a lot and they don't need to buy another monitor.

Well, as wholly segregated as Apple's non-laptop product line is, I stand behind my cannibalization argument. Look at their current line-up: MacMini, iMac, or, big, expensive MacPro tower. Nothing "in-between." This forces the consumer to make a pretty decided choice among three highly differentiated product lines. Plus, the fact that not everyone cares if their display's cosmetics don't match their machine's. And the trend that third-party display prices are dropping through the floor, furthers the argument. A power-user MacMini would definitely cannibalize a portion of potential iMac sales, but if its introduction also increases sales overall, then it's a go.

This analysis tasks every product manager who has to decide on what to include and what not to include in future product offerings. Companies have to adopt the "optimum" selection of tiered feature sets and price points in order to maximize sales, and their respective margins, across the brand. Every company has to parse their products in this manner. This is exactly why companies differentiate their products in seemingly unsatisfying ways (at least to the customer). And this is one of the things Apple seems to do best--differentiating its products "just enough" to make you want the higher-end model instead. Say, for example, you like the iMac form factor, but want more than 4GB of RAM--sorry, you have to buy the more expensive, MacPro tower--there is no other option. And that's the way Apple wants it. This is why I never expect to see a "mini-tower" or any other "in-between" product from Apple in this generation (maybe a tablet). Apple garners more revenue, and at the same time conserves both manufacturing resources and inventory overhead by not supporting additional product SKUs.

Coming from the broadcast world, the ENG television camera market is similarly highly segregated between models. From both Sony and Panasonic, there's the ultra-cheap, sub-$10,000 prosumer models, the mid-range, $15-25,000 models, and the super-duper, $40,000-$100,000 ultra-cool models. Never do they seem to introduce something "just right," in-between those highly stratified price plateaus (although, this is starting to change).