Obama "risky?" Read this interesting article about Mac Kane.

[O-Mac]

who is the real Obama?
who is the real McCain?

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

[lundy]

who is the real Obama?
who is the real McCain?

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/make_believe_maverick_the_real_john_mccain

I have read the article, so I know it isn't spam. I even have the hardcopy of the RS issue.

But you can't just post a link to an article. You should make a comment about what your interpretation of the article is, and either post your summary of what the article says, or chop out a brief paragraph from the article that contains the main points.

[FloorJack]

Swift Boating is okay so long as it's pointed at McCain.



Well he started it with Ayers

[addabox]

Right. Because something bad about McCain equal something bad about Obama, in all circumstances and contexts.

If Obama mentions McCain's skin cancers, it would be fair for McCain to claim that Obama is a murderer. Because those two things are the same.

If a journalist writes a story about McCain that puts him in an unflattering light, it would be fair for McCain to say, over and over again, that Obama fucks dogs. Because those two things are the same.

Simple tit for tat, here on Mars.

Also: there is no such thing as whether a statement is true or not.

[Bergermeister]

Swift Boating is okay so long as it's pointed at McCain.



Well he started it with Ayers

Dd you read the article? [Which I linked to in another thread several days ago...]

If even a little of it is true, then it pretty much blows the Ayers talk out of the water. McCain is not fit for public office or any leadership position, for that matter.

[trumptman]

I read it when you linked to it and as Floorjack said, it is a straight up swiftboat job. First there isn't a way to prove the story. It isn't written as a news article but as a biography that is clearly just a hit piece. The funny thing is how all these pieces follow the same template now. Of course McCain is just a hard drinking, woman hating, failure of a man who is also an idiot, but also just somehow manages to beat everyone at everything his whole life be they Republican or Democrat. Everyone was just fooled all the time.

It gets tiring. They should at least make up more varied and interesting scare tactics.

[tonton]

The funny thing is how all these pieces follow the same template now. Of course McCain is just a hard drinking, woman hating, failure of a man who is also an idiot, but also just somehow manages to beat everyone at everything his whole life be they Republican or Democrat. Everyone was just fooled all the time.

Deja Vu. Are you saying we weren't right about Bush when we said the exact same thing?

These people get by with privilege. And it is disgusting.

[trumptman]

Deja Vu. Are you saying we weren't right about Bush when we said the exact same thing?

These people get by with privilege. And it is disgusting.

In my view pretty much no person on this planet should run for a second term. The media, their own party and talent attrition lead pretty much all of them to be terrible no matter who is involved.

That said even though I'm only barely in favor of McCain, Bush has done some good things. Even his failures really aren't within his control unless we just want to federalize everything which sadly is starting to happen now (including our banks) lest the media hang everyone with their utopian vision.

Take Katrina as a quick example. The federal response was actually pretty quick. I remember that very vivid picture of all those unused school buses sitting there because at the city and local level, pretty much nothing was done. Bobby Jindal, a Republican, was put into office because of the state response so no matter what you may want to believe, it wasn't just Republican incompetence or only federal incompetence. Was Bush somehow supposed to go down there himself and test the quality of the cement in the levees himself and determine that decades of Democratic graft and corruption had made them substandard as an example?

We have levels of government for a reason. I don't want the feds handling every single matter. There should be issues where local control is better. When it turned out they they were a bunch of terrible fuck ups in Louisiana, Bush took the blame but the feds did respond appropriately. Amazingly enough it wasn't just N.O that was hit but the entire gulf region and everywhere else the federal response was fine because the local governments were not a bunch of idiots.

We could go on about this in area after area. In spending Bush has been bad and I have correctly dinged him. However it isn't like the Democratic Congress can or will put an end to such things. Bush requests $700 billion, they sign it with another $100 billion or bribes and goodies to buy voters. They gave him every cent on the war. Obama is coming to town with a legendary spending list so really he sucked but the other party is even worse. They haven't held the line on anything in the budget and the deficit is exploding even worse now by the standards of the Bush administration.

[Flounder]

I read it when you linked to it and as Floorjack said, it is a straight up swiftboat job.

1. Does that mean you finally admit that the swiftboating of John Kerry was a bunch of extremely nasty, political horse-shit?

2. I'd like to preface this one by saying it's not meant to be sarcastic at all, because I've been busy and really don't know: Has the Rolling Stone article received the sort of media coverage the swiftboat attacks did?

[FloorJack]

This op-ed amusing. During the second debate it seemed that Obama had no lack of money for any problem that needed it. Must be magic.

Obama's Magic (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122360618747721991.html)
Presto, change-o!
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-CM374_oj_pw1_C_20081009193551.jpg
And now, America, we introduce the Great Obama! The world's most gifted political magician! A thing of wonder. A thing of awe. Just watch him defy politics, economics, even gravity! (And hold your applause until the end, please.)

To kick off our show tonight, Mr. Obama will give 95% of American working families a tax cut, even though 40% of Americans today don't pay income taxes! How can our star enact such mathemagic? How can he "cut" zero? Abracadabra! It's called a "refundable tax credit." It involves the federal government taking money from those who do pay taxes, and writing checks to those who don't. Yes, yes, in the real world this is known as "welfare," but please try not to ruin the show.

... (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122360618747721991.html)

[groverat]

John McCain wants to spend $300 billion buying overpriced mortgages from shady/deceitful lenders.

[BRussell]

That is quite a hatchet job on McCain.

[hardeeharhar]

This op-ed amusing. During the second debate it seemed that Obama had no lack of money for any problem that needed it. Must be magic.

Obama's Magic (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122360618747721991.html)
Presto, change-o!
http://s.wsj.net/public/resources/images/OB-CM374_oj_pw1_C_20081009193551.jpg
Floorjack: I simply think people don't understand Obama's proposal.

Regardless,

I read it when you linked to it and as Floorjack said, it is a straight up swiftboat job. First there isn't a way to prove the story. It isn't written as a news article but as a biography that is clearly just a hit piece. The funny thing is how all these pieces follow the same template now. Of course McCain is just a hard drinking, woman hating, failure of a man who is also an idiot, but also just somehow manages to beat everyone at everything his whole life be they Republican or Democrat. Everyone was just fooled all the time.

Well here is the part of the story that you seemingly missed: McCain isn't such a winner -- what contests has he actually won? He sucked as a pilot. He sucked as commander of the largest Naval flying brigade. He sucked as the Naval liason (a fancy term for naval lobbiest). His victories in Arizona never came over a serious Democratic opponent. The only claim to hard-fought victory McCain can claim is over fellow Republicans (and lets be honest, this year's batch was hardly worth sniffing let alone voting for)...

McCain isn't this glorious winner people thinks he is.

[groverat]

Even his failures really aren't within his control unless we just want to federalize everything which sadly is starting to happen now (including our banks) lest the media hang everyone with their utopian vision.

He is entirely to blame for our being in Iraq, which has been a disastrous failure both in terms of American lives lost and American debt accrued.

Bush has been a nightmare of a president.

[addabox]

That said even though I'm only barely in favor of McCain, Bush has done some good things. Even his failures really aren't within his control unless we just want to federalize everything which sadly is starting to happen now (including our banks) lest the media hang everyone with their utopian vision.

So much for conservative notions of agency and responsibility, eh?

Poor people are responsible for being poor because being a success or failure in life is entirely a function of will and hard work. Unless you're the President of the United States, in which case, it's society's fault.

Oh, and the relative paradise of the Clinton administration was just blind luck.