Apple announces new 13-inch MacBook

[AppleInsider]

Apple on Tuesday unveiled its next-generation 13-inch MacBook, which includes a new unibody construction, more powerful NVIDIA graphics, Display Port output, a new glass touchpad with multitouch gestures, and a revised appearance nearly identical to the new MacBook Pro.

Construction

Apple detailed a new "unibody" construction method for the MacBook that improves upon the current model's plastic shell, reinforced with an internal frame. The new design is patterned after the MacBook Air released in January and is extremely similar to that of the new MacBook Pro.

The new construction provides a case that is stronger, torsionally rigid, 4.5 pounds light, and 0.95 inches thin. It features a MacBook Air-style keyboard recessed into the frame. All I/O ports are located on left side, including: MagSafe, Gigabit Ethernet, Dual USB 2.0, Mini Display Port, Analog/digital audio in and out, and a side-mounted battery indicator light.

Graphics

The new MacBook line features the powerful new NVIDIA GeForce 9400M, a revolutionary new 3D integrated graphics processor that features 16 parallel processing cores and delivers up to five times the 3D graphics performance as previous MacBook and MacBook Air designs. Apple has worked together with NVIDIA on this groundbreaking graphics processor and is the first to bring it to market in the new MacBook family.

Multitouch Glass Trackpad

The new MacBook also features a new 39 percent larger multitouch trackpad that supports additional gestures and acts as a single button. The glass surface of the trackpad promises less friction for "silky-smooth travel." The new trackpad supports virtual software buttons, as well as one- to four-fingered multitouch gestures:
two finger pinch and rotatethree finger slidesfour fingers bring up Exposé and app switching



Optical Drive, Latch, and More

The optical drive is located on right edge. It provides a DVD burner but does not support Blu-ray. Jobs said "Blu-ray is a bag of hurt. I don’t mean from the consumer point of view. It’s great to watch movies, but the licensing is so complex. We’re waiting until things settle down, and waiting until Blu-ray takes off before we burden our customers with the cost of licensing."



The new notebooks continue to supply a backlit keyboard, sudden motion sensor, stereo speakers, iSight camera, mic, and magnetic latch.

New Battery Cover and Easy Access

The new battery cover provides easy access to the hard drive bay, which supports both a standard mechanical hard drive and a new solid state drive option. Locking the system with a security cable also locks the cover on the battery and drive.



Side-mounted Battery Indicator Light

The MacBook's new side-mounted battery indicator light means users won't have to turn the machine upside down to see the status of their notebook's battery if the machine is not powered on.



MacBook Configurations

The 2.0 GHz, 13-inch aluminum MacBook will sell for $1,299 and include:
13.3-inch widescreen LED-backlit 1280 x 800 glossy display;2.0 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 3MB shared L2 cache;1066 MHz front-side bus;2GB 1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM, expandable to 4GB;NVIDIA GeForce 9400M integrated graphics;160GB serial ATA hard drive running at 5400 rpm, with Sudden Motion Sensor;a slot-load 8X SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW) optical drive;Mini DisplayPort for video output (adapters sold separately);built-in AirPort Extreme 802.11n wireless networking and Bluetooth 2.1+EDR;Gigabit Ethernet port;built-in iSight video camera;two USB 2.0 ports;one audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog;glass Multi-Touch trackpad; and60 Watt MagSafe Power Adapter.
The 2.4 GHz aluminum MacBook is priced at $1,599 and includes:
13.3-inch widescreen LED-backlit 1280 x 800 glossy display;2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo with 3MB shared L2 cache;1066 MHz front-side bus;2GB 1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM, expandable to 4GB;NVIDIA GeForce 9400M integrated graphics;250GB serial ATA hard drive running at 5400 rpm, with Sudden Motion Sensor;a slot-load 8X SuperDrive with double-layer support (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW) optical drive;Mini DisplayPort for video output (adapters sold separately);built-in AirPort Extreme 802.11n wireless networking and Bluetooth 2.1+EDR;Gigabit Ethernet port;built-in iSight video camera;two USB 2.0 ports;one audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog;glass Multi-Touch trackpad and illuminated keyboard; and60 Watt MagSafe Power Adapter.

Build-to-order options for the MacBook include the ability to upgrade to 4GB 1066 MHz DDR3 SDRAM, a 250GB 5400 rpm, 320GB 5400 rpm hard drive, a 128GB solid state drive, Mini DisplayPort to DVI Adapter, Mini DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI Adapter (for 30-inch DVI display), Mini DisplayPort to VGA Adapter, Apple USB Modem, Apple Remote, Apple MagSafe Airline Adapter and the AppleCare Protection Plan.

In addition, Apple said the existing white plastic MacBook will continue to be sold for $999.[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=10246)

[infinitespecter]

Let me be the first to say, the real successor to the 12" Powerbook is FINALLY here!

[paulgreen]

Just bought mine from the Apple Store (at 11:05 am PST)!

[drxcm]

No Firewire :mad::mad::mad:

[Lorre]

These new Apple laptops do look really sexy, and after seeing the vid on Apple's site, I'm conifdent they just might be the best notebooks in the world, but this NOT IN ANY WAY what the computer market needs right now. WHY doesn't Apple introduce a cheaper model to gain market share? Do they want to go all elitist and snobby?

[xt500n]

No Firewire :mad::mad::mad:

yeah and what about target disk mode... :-(

[mistergreen]

How would one import video (particularly high def) without Firewire?

[infinitespecter]

These new Apple laptops do look really sexy, and after seeing the vid on Apple's site, I'm conifdent they just might be the best notebooks in the world, but this NOT IN ANY WAY what the computer market needs right now. WHY doesn't Apple introduce a cheaper model to gain market share? Do they want to go all elitist and snobby?

I'm sorry, go all elitist and snobby? They are the epitome of snobbery and have repeatedly stated that they don't want to deal with the lower end of the market. They aren't going anywhere, they're already there.

[samaster1991]

The Hell

In the US white MacBook now $999. In the UK, white Macbook has gone up $40 - and nothings changed :devil::devil::devil::devil:

Put off buying MacBook few weeks ago cos I heard it might go down in price. HAHA

Was going to buy one, but now ill go for cheaper option. Dell :D

[NomadMac]

No Firewire :mad::mad::mad:

Uh, it lists FireWire 800 in the story AND an Express 34 card slot.

[Daniel001]

This would look a lot better if they did an anodized black version.

[shatpank81]

you got to be joking me, just went to order from the uk store and the macbook 13" is £949 for the nvidia/black surround version (thats about $1644) a whopping $350 dollars over what most of what you guys will pay ($1299)!
you know what apple shove it!!!
and about 2 hours ago the white macbook was £699, but now its £719????
not paying that. my current macbook currently suffers from massive/huge screen flicker (out of warranty now) and was waiting for this but like i said cant justify paying that, might end up getting the imac now or more likely now ill put leopard on a laptop!!!

[zunx]

NO Firewire on MacBook, NO PURCHASE!

[FuturePastNow]

These new Apple laptops do look really sexy, and after seeing the vid on Apple's site, I'm conifdent they just might be the best notebooks in the world, but this NOT IN ANY WAY what the computer market needs right now. WHY doesn't Apple introduce a cheaper model to gain market share? Do they want to go all elitist and snobby?

They cut the price of the old Macbook to $999. Still not a great deal, but they'll sell a lot of them.

The pricing is pretty devious, though. I wonder how many people will take the $300 bait?

[bloggerblog]

No Firewire! I bought my 12", attached two FW devices at home, and used it to edit in FCP.
Smaller screen size is for portability not less features.

[gwmac]

All my external drives are firewire, so is my $2,000 camcorder. Not to mention target disk mode. Why in the hell couldn't they add at least one firewire port or at least an expresscard slot for expansion?

What Apple giveth they always taketh away.

[xflare]

The Hell

In the US white MacBook now $999. In the UK, white Macbook has gone up $40 - and nothings changed :devil::devil::devil::devil:

Put off buying MacBook few weeks ago cos I heard it might go down in price. HAHA

Was going to buy one, but now ill go for cheaper option. Dell :D

It comes with a SuperDrive now. But you are having to pay the additional £20 for it.

[smartz]

What is with the pricing disparity? A whooping $350.00 difference here in the UK? I mean importation costs have never been this high before. This sounds like rip-off Britain all over again. Very sad because the credit cards out!

[Xxplosive]

2.0 vs 2.4 GHz

is the difference even noticeable ? and if it is, is it really worth the extra ?

[Frank777]

Yeah, with no Firewire the 13" MacBook is seriously hobbled.

[dr_lha]

What is with the pricing disparity? A whooping $350.00 difference here in the UK?
What? The difference is actually more like $115. How are you getting that $350? I assume you're forgetting that the UK price includes 17.5% VAT and the US price does not include sales tax (which gets added on at check out).

[Feynman]

No Firewire :mad::mad::mad:

Yeah I really do not understand that either. Do they think making movies is now something only the pros do?

I guess iMovie will be the next to be axed.

[TenoBell]

How would one import video (particularly high def) without Firewire?

Panasonic and JVC sell cameras with USB ports. It seems Sony is the last hold out.

High Def on these consumer cams is highly compressed with a data rate around 25Mpbs and don't come close to 400Mbps.

[minderbinder]

These new Apple laptops do look really sexy, and after seeing the vid on Apple's site, I'm conifdent they just might be the best notebooks in the world, but this NOT IN ANY WAY what the computer market needs right now. WHY doesn't Apple introduce a cheaper model to gain market share? Do they want to go all elitist and snobby?

Amen to that. The aluminum models are a nice improvement, but it's incredibly stupid for apple to put so much focus on the high end and offer basically nothing for people on a budget. They are telling a large share of the market to get lost.

[fft]

It's incredible!!! Apple just is showing its arrogant face, "Pro's buy Macbook Pro's"...
I JUST A MACBOOK WITH A FIREWIRE CONNECTION, because otherwise I can not connect my 2 FW external drives and my audio interface... but with a alluminium enclosure and gesture trackpad, is it to much to ask? just leave there the FW connection, it doesn't take to much space...

And what about the prices? do they came from mars?

Sick of this fashion thing!!!

[drxcm]

Uh, it lists FireWire 800 in the story AND an Express 34 card slot.

Story is not correct then :no:

[Shaun, UK]

I really can't see the point in making the MB and MBP look identical. Why not just introduce a 13" MBP instead and adopt a different styling for the MB - preferably with some colour options.

[Elixir]

that has to be the nicest macbook and macbook pro's i've ever seen.


edit: yes, there is no point in getting a macbook unless you really only use it for email, internet, and various other little things.

[SpamSandwich]

you got to be joking me, just went to order from the uk store and the macbook 13" is £949 for the nvidia/black surround version (thats about $1644) a whopping $350 dollars over what most of what you guys will pay ($1299)!
you know what apple shove it!!!
and about 2 hours ago the white macbook was £699, but now its £719????
not paying that. my current macbook currently suffers from massive/huge screen flicker (out of warranty now) and was waiting for this but like i said cant justify paying that, might end up getting the imac now or more likely now ill put leopard on a laptop!!!

Bloody noobs.

[rtdunham]

Uh, it lists FireWire 800 in the story AND an Express 34 card slot.

both these statement on appleinsider are incorrect, according to what i saw on the event blogs and on the Apple Store online. I think the writer must have momentarily thought he was writing about the MBP. I wish he were right though...

[gwmac]

How can Apple be so smart and so stupid at the same time?

The white Macbook doesn't even have the newer X4500 Intel graphics, it is still using the older 3100. At $899 it would be a better deal, but with $500 laptops with equal or better specs, not so much. It seems like it is just there to make you get the $1299 version. If they had just included firewire or an expresscard slot it would be a lot easier to swallow.

[AHeneen]

you got to be joking me, just went to order from the uk store and the macbook 13" is £949 for the nvidia/black surround version (thats about $1644) a whopping $350 dollars over what most of what you guys will pay ($1299)!
you know what apple shove it!!!
and about 2 hours ago the white macbook was £699, but now its £719????
not paying that. my current macbook currently suffers from massive/huge screen flicker (out of warranty now) and was waiting for this but like i said cant justify paying that, might end up getting the imac now or more likely now ill put leopard on a laptop!!!


A $350 difference? In the US, sales tax has to be added to that. The sales tax varies from state to state (0% in 2 states, but most are around 5-8%). For me, it's 7%, so the $1299 MacBook will actually cost me $1390. UK(and other European) prices include ridiculously high (20% + taxes...called GST or VAT). I think the UK is something like 17%

$1299 x 1.07= $1389.93
£949/1.17=£811.11 and the exchange rate (from XE at 14:36) is $1.74481=£1
£811.11 x 1.74481= $1415.23
$1415.23-$1389.93=$25.30=£14.50
That is quite close!! Remember that exchange rates vary and there is probably extra costs involved in doing business with the UK.

[Thomaspin]

This will rank as Apple's greatest marketing disaster since the Newton.

The world is on the verge of a new Depression so what does Apple do? Why, introduce a line of jewelry and increase the price 30-60%.

Add the insult of dropping Firewire - meaning many current MB users will be unable to upgrade without also upgrading their external drives - and you have a study in Marketing Arrogance 101.

On 8/4/08 in AI Comments I stated I expected AAPL to drop to $100 from $150 (to the usual round of offense, of course). I was wrong. Based on a rational PE applied to falling margins make that $70 - within 6 months.

They kept the old plastic MB for a reason - someone looked at the front page of the daily paper and said Ooops! And say what you may about the wonders of Nvidia's GPUs, 2.1 gHz (old MB) is faster than 2.0 gHz (for 30% more - new MB) in most buyers' eyes. That's marketing for you. GPUs do not sell bottom of the line notebooks- price does.

Disclosure: No AAPL position.

[Mr Underhill]

The Hell

In the US white MacBook now $999. In the UK, white Macbook has gone up $40 - and nothings changed :devil::devil::devil::devil:

Put off buying MacBook few weeks ago cos I heard it might go down in price. HAHA

Was going to buy one, but now ill go for cheaper option. Dell :D
Enjoy it!!

[shatpank81]

Bloody noobs.
why because this is my first post?
you tell me what have i said wrong?
yea i know the white macbook comes with the superdrive (shouldnt ALL computers/laptops come with dvd writers nowadays???)
other than that........oh yea the trackpad!!
but as new technology comes out older tech should get cheaper not more expensive other than the dvdwriter and trackpad its the same old macbook which will no doubt suffer from screen flicker!!!
if they think im paying more for a dvdwriter and a fancy mouse pad they are mistaken!!!
if it was still £699 then people like me would of probably get it, but because its more expensive no way pedro

[Cory Bauer]

Apple is pedaling the MacBook as just like the Pro, but smaller and $700 cheaper. But it doesn't have Firewire, or the option for a 7200RPM drive, so even with that extra graphics power the machine still isn't suitable for multimedia work. Not to mention they actually downgraded the processor. And the $999 plastic MacBook should sell for $799.


Coming from a 17" MacBook Pro, I thought a $1999 MacBook Pro with a high density display would do me well, but that's not an option. Then I thought a 13" MacBook paired to one of those new $799 Cinema Displays would be nice, but you can't put a 7200RPM drive in the MacBook (and it doesn't have firewire). Between the 5400RPM drive and the process downgrade, that's going to be a slow computer.

[amac4me]

This will rank as Apple's greatest marketing disaster since the Newton.

The world is on the verge of a new Depression so what does Apple do? Why, introduce a line of jewelry and increase the price 30-60%.

Add the insult of dropping Firewire - meaning many current MB users will be unable to upgrade without also upgrading their external drives - and you have a study in Marketing Arrogance 101.

On 8/4/08 in AI Comments I stated I expected AAPL to drop to $100 from $150 (to the usual round of offense, of course). I was wrong. Based on a rational PE applied to falling margins make that $70 - within 6 months.

They kept the old plastic MB for a reason - someone looked at the front page of the daily paper and said Ooops! And say what you may about the wonders of Nvidia's GPUs, 2.1 gHz (old MB) is faster than 2.0 gHz (for 30% more - new MB) in most buyers' eyes. That's marketing for you. GPUs do not sell bottom of the line notebooks- price does.

Disclosure: No AAPL position.

I'm a bit taken aback by the price points. One would think that given the economic conditions hammering the world economies that Apple would price these things a bit more competitively. Perhaps their marketing and segmentation says otherwise. Who knows! I know one thing for sure, several people I know have been holding out their purchase in anticipation for these new models but at lower price points.

[smartz]

What? The difference is actually more like $115. How are you getting that $350? I assume you're forgetting that the UK price includes 17.5% VAT and the US price does not include sales tax (which gets added on at check out).

I accept what your saying but it doesn't add up lets take the Mac Mini for example is $599.00. In the UK its £374.00 with a difference at todays conversion of £33.00 or $58.00 and that includes VAT.

This is a $350.00 con!

[TheFatWookie]

How would one import video (particularly high def) without Firewire?


My last video camera and my current HD video camera (Sony HD SR11) uses USB 2.0 to import to a computer. Do they make FireWire video cameras anymore? Come to think of it, They haven't used firewire to tranfer to an iPod in like 500 years I think.

[John F.]

So it's true, the $1299 and $1599 MacBooks don't have any FireWire. That is a complete rip-off at that price-point. Many older Mac users who want to trade in their Apple notebook and who have FireWire peripherals won't be able to buy a cheap Mac notebook newer style. Also new-to-Mac persons who have older or recent DV and HDV camcorders won't be able to connect them to their new MacBooks. These people will have to buy an old style white MacBook, yesteryear's design, and no sturdy case design. Yes, DV and HDV are on its way out, but we're in the middle of a transition period. Many people and schools still have DV and HDV camera's, and you can still buy HDV camera's. Most can only be connected to the Mac using FireWire. And what if you buy a new-style MacBook and you get to work with a HDV camera on loan? You're out of luck then, it seems. Apologists would say that there's nothing wrong with Apple's decision, because they have kept the white MacBook. But for how long? You can twist it any way you want, I still think it's a rip-off.

[sortarican4711]

apple has really screwed the pooch on this one, i was planning on upgrading from my 2 yr old mac mini to a mb when i heard they would start at 899, now they are 999 and the next up is 300 bux more... no way. i can go to craiglist buy one for 700 bux and still get the same features at the entry lever for 300 bux less. It is a disappointment that in this time where money is tight and the economy sucks that apple would stay at the same price points

[UltimateKylie]

Its ridiculous... the specs are either lowered or the same.... All they focused on was the graphics card. If all the people that had bought their BEST Selling laptop the Macbook had previously focused on Graphics they wouldn't have bought it.

Most people in a 13in laptop don't need top of the line graphics, I see no reason to upgrade from my 2.4ghz $1299 to 2.0 ghz when I have an Xbox 360 and a dedicated gaming pc.

And besides, honestly I think mine looks better. I don't like the black around the screen. It should have been all aluminum.

[TenoBell]

I accept what your saying but it doesn't add up lets take the Mac Mini for example is $599.00. In the UK its £374.00 with a difference at todays conversion of £33.00 or $58.00 and that includes VAT.

This is a $350.00 con!

The Mac mini won't cost $599, that is without tax. What you are missing is the fact that in the US we will get charged the $58 in tax on the $599 Mac mini.

[jonnoh2]

How can Apple be so smart and so stupid at the same time?

The white Macbook doesn't even have the newer X4500 Intel graphics, it is still using the older 3100. At $899 it would be a better deal, but with $500 laptops with equal or better specs, not so much. It seems like it is just there to make you get the $1299 version. If they had just included firewire or an expresscard slot it would be a lot easier to swallow.

Since the entry $999 Macbook is likely aimed at college students it will really cost $899 because of the education discount.

Equal or better specs on a $500 laptop? Does it run OS X? No. Not equal.

I agree with the comments on no Firewire... I hadn't noticed that before. The arguments kind of remind me of all the hoopla surrounding the lack of a floppy drive on the original iMac though. Is it really that big of a deal?

If you have Firewire peripherals you might have to invest in the Macbook Pro or buy an iMac. Or, you could sell them to all of the other people who are still happily using their current Macbooks.

Let's get some perspective people. Apple has revolutionized the notebook. Give them credit.

And stop your WHINING!!

[dr_lha]

I accept what your saying but it doesn't add up lets take the Mac Mini for example is $599.00. In the UK its £374.00 with a difference at todays conversion of £33.00 or $58.00 and that includes VAT.

This is a $350.00 con!
I think you're confused. The Mac mini in the UK store is £339.57 ex VAT, that today is $594. So right now the Mac mini in the UK store is approximately the same price as in the US store ($5 cheaper).

Where you're getting this $350 from I can't say. $115 it is, and I believe you can probably explain that by the fluctuations in the value of the pound an dollar, after all a few months ago the pound was $2. Now it is $1.75. This is probably why the new machines are slightly more expensive.

Sucks for sure, but I still think that most of your $350 figure you can blame on the UK goverment's VAT rate.

[TBaggins]

I'm a bit taken aback by the price points. One would think that given the economic conditions hammering the world economies that Apple would price these things a bit more competitively. Perhaps their marketing and segmentation says otherwise. Who knows! I know one thing for sure, several people I know have been holding out their purchase in anticipation for these new models but at lower price points.


Yup. And this is part of why AAPL took a dive minutes after the event wrapped. :(


...

[cosmickd]

Does anyone know what the slit on the front right corner is for on the new MacBook?

[FastLaneJB]

A $350 difference? In the US, sales tax has to be added to that. The sales tax varies from state to state (0% in 2 states, but most are around 5-8%). For me, it's 7%, so the $1299 MacBook will actually cost me $1390. UK(and other European) prices include ridiculously high (20% + taxes...called GST or VAT). I think the UK is something like 17%

$1299 x 1.07= $1389.93
£949/1.17=£811.11 and the exchange rate (from XE at 14:36) is $1.74481=£1
£811.11 x 1.74481= $1415.23
$1415.23-$1389.93=$25.30=£14.50
That is quite close!! Remember that exchange rates vary and there is probably extra costs involved in doing business with the UK.

Erm, your comparing the UK price minus VAT (Which is 17.5% and not 17% but that's a tiny difference) to your US dollar price after you've added on your 7% sales tax.

Surely you need to do $1415.23-$1299 which is $116.23 dollars difference.

[TBaggins]

And stop your WHINING!!


Is it really 'whining' to note that Apple kinda screwed the pooch in some ways here? :err:

The pricepoints aren't as aggressive as ppl hoped, especially considering that we're likely entering a prolonged worldwide recession. And the no Firewire is just plain inexcusable.

That said, I love the sexy new casings, and the improved graphics performance. But it's just such a mixed bag. Like many others, I was expecting more. Not sure Steve helped himself here.

...

[johnqh]

Apple's logic is simple.

Among the existing Macbook users, how many use Firewire? 1%? (I don't).

If Firewire costs $10, does it make sense to include it in the Macbook when 99% users don't use it?

By the way, to those who have Firewire external drives....look at the back, I am 100% sure it also have USB connection. As far as I am concerned, the only difference is no DV camcorder connection and no target disk mode.

[johnqh]

Yup. And this is part of why AAPL took a dive minutes after the event wrapped. :(


...

Actually, the whole market took a dive, so Apple decision will surely destroy the economy.

Just kidding....but we all know AAPL takes a dive everytime after a product announcement. This has always always been the pattern for the last 3 to 4 years.

[TBaggins]

Actually, the whole market took a dive, so Apple decision will surely destroy the economy.

Just kidding....but we all know AAPL takes a dive everytime after a product announcement. This has always always been the pattern for the last 3 to 4 years.


Actually, while the Dow was also down right after the event wrapped, it wasn't down by nearly as much as AAPL was down.

Far as AAPL 'always' diving after a product announcement, was that true for the announcement of the iPhone at MacWorld '07? I don't know either way, just asking.

...

[minderbinder]

Among the existing Macbook users, how many use Firewire? 1%? (I don't).

I'll bet more than that.
By the way, to those who have Firewire external drives....look at the back, I am 100% sure it also have USB connection.

Some hard drives have both, but there are tons of peripherals that only have one or the other.

[minderbinder]

Yup. And this is part of why AAPL took a dive minutes after the event wrapped.

Except that the whole market took a dive at the same time. Considering AAPL only went down a couple percent after the event, it's hard to blame the new machines for that.

[Buck]

How come it's $999 when the http://www.apple.com/macbook/ says "The next generation of notebooks starts at $1299." WTF?
Also, no firewire.

[pdiddy]

You can put firewire in if they have an ExpressCard slot.

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fwusbexpresscard34.html

I know it would be handy to have it built into the computer, but still, you aren't dead in the water.

[MiMac]

No FireWire? This has to be one of the dumbest moves imaginable!

How much would it have cost Apple to include a FireWire port on the MacBook? $3-$5 at the very most per unit? I'd have given 'em an extra $30 for it.

These things are seriously hobbled and now seriously overpriced this side of the water.

..."New design. New features. New technologies.
All engineered to standards that don’t even exist yet."...

"Yea, and while were at it, let's un-engineer one of the very technologies that attracts so many video/audio people to the Mac 'cos were sooo forward looking."
What about the standards that do exist? The very technology that a helluva lot of people here use daily?

Unbelievably bad move Apple. That Sony vaio is looking sweeter by the day.

[TBaggins]

Except that the whole market took a dive at the same time. Considering AAPL only went down a couple percent after the event, it's hard to blame the new machines for that.

Again, not exactly.

AAPL was down by as much as 7.05 right after the event. That's more than a 6% drop, not a 'couple of percent'. And the market as a whole was not down by nearly that much at the time.

Even right now, with the market nose-diving due to profit-taking, it's still down only 2.5 percent as of this writing. AAPL was/is down a lot more.

Check out the DOW vs APPL today:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL#chart2:symbol=aapl;range=1d;compare =^dji;indicator=dividend+volume;charttype=line;cro sshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefine d

...

[retty]

This may sound silly, but I can't see a fan anywhere on it. How does it keep cool?

[dr_lha]

You can put firewire in if they have an ExpressCard slot.

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fwusbexpresscard34.html

I know it would be handy to have it built into the computer, but still, you aren't dead in the water.
The MacBook doesn't have an ExpressCard slot.

[Lorre]

Keping an eye on this forum and a few others, this is the first time in my 4 years of Mac tracking that practically nobody is positive over the new stuff... It's also the first time I'm disappointed with a new release.

I'm usually on the "you guys need to stop whining"-side, but this time, Apple seems to have missed the ball and the entire internet agrees. (Save 2-3% of people)

This thing is too expensive and overspecced for the student-target group, but is also missing some essential features for the pros. Who are they aiming this at?

[city]

The Hell

In the US white MacBook now $999. In the UK, white Macbook has gone up $40 - and nothings changed :devil::devil::devil::devil:

Put off buying MacBook few weeks ago cos I heard it might go down in price. HAHA

Was going to buy one, but now ill go for cheaper option. Dell :DYou get what you pay for.

[dbot]

the missing firewire port is really annoying. it's not just because of cameras..

there are a ton of djs, electronic musicians that use a macbook because of it's size. infact i think that almost all acts that I've seen in the last 3 years had one on stage, but without firewire you can't connect most external soundcards (which you need for djing and performing).

It's really weird that I can't get a mac now. The Pro is too big for my needs and the without firewire I just can't connect my soundcard.


very weird move apple... and I've sort of already gotten over the glossy screen issue

[MiMac]

This may sound silly, but I can't see a fan anywhere on it. How does it keep cool?

By sitting in its box on the shelf at the Apple store gathering dust.

[pt123]

Even though all my hard drives are USB, I still can't believe Apple removed Firewire from the Macbook. They discontinued their own technology and went Intel. Wow.

[jonnoh2]

Is it really 'whining' to note that Apple kinda screwed the pooch in some ways here? :err:

The pricepoints aren't as aggressive as ppl hoped, especially considering that we're likely entering a prolonged worldwide recession. And the no Firewire is just plain inexcusable.

That said, I love the sexy new casings, and the improved graphics performance. But it's just such a mixed bag. Like many others, I was expecting more. Not sure Steve helped himself here.

...

Ok, I'll admit that I like everyone else was disappointed when I learned that the $900 price point was really for a display. But let's all be honest... we are really mad at ourselves for letting expectations get out of control based on little more than wishful thinking. I don't know much about manufacturing and such but it seems to me that these Macbooks will retain their value better than the average "budget" PC laptop just because of their design.

Attention to detail - better graphics - buttonless glass trackpad - ambient light sensor and backlit keys - "green" design - OS X - Bootcamp... is $1300 really that bad?

Apple is an aspirational brand... if you can't afford a Macbook than figure out a way to change your life, make more money, and move on. I think people forget that the iPhone is only $200 in the US because AT&T is paying about $400 of their own money to make the price competitive. Macs cost more because they are better in many ways.

I was hoping for a lower cost on the Macbooks... and I'm sure a lot of us were. That speaks volumes about the desire for Apple products. No, let's turn our energy towards paying down our own debts, reigning in our wasteful spending, and making due with what we have. In time we will be rewarded with a Mac portable worthy of the Apple brand.

[AHeneen]

Erm, your comparing the UK price minus VAT (Which is 17.5% and not 17% but that's a tiny difference) to your US dollar price after you've added on your 7% sales tax.

Surely you need to do $1415.23-$1299 which is $116.23 dollars difference.
Sorry...but that is still not a HUGE difference. Also exchange rates change, and maybe in a month or two you'll be paying less. It may also be a higher cost of doing business in the UK. Since Apple has company stores in the UK, they may have to pay business taxes in the UK (and like most taxes in Eurpoe, it's probably more expensive). Buy it on your next trip across the pond, if that little difference irritates you.

[i386]

One of the nice features is the removal HDD. Buy Macbook and swap 5400 rpm for 7200rpm. (Use the 5400 in a box for TM).

Many photogs are going be pissed about the glossy screen, I wonder now is it that bad ?

The new LED screen is interesting with iSight, Mic and Speaker, but no audio jack for external speakers that would of being easy to include on the back.

The engineering is awesome that went into this. The FW thing is dumb tough.

Gavin

[dr_lha]

Attention to detail - better graphics - buttonless glass trackpad - ambient light sensor and backlit keys - "green" design - OS X - Bootcamp... is $1300 really that bad?
FYI: Backlit keys are still a "Pro" feature only. EDIT: OK, so now the store is up it appears I'm wrong, sorry. It doesn't list backlit keyboard on the Tech Specs page, but does on the Apple store when you try to purchase one.

[pt123]

Apple is an aspirational brand... if you can't afford a Macbook than figure out a way to change your life, make more money, and move on.

Or just buy something else that is cheaper.

[smartz]

I guess i'm irked by the UK/US price difference. Which i don't honestly think is all down to VAT or importing or doing business in the UK. In the past comparable prices have been pretty close bar the cost of the 160Gb Apple TV which is still a rip off price here in UK-land.

What bothers me more is the HD camcorder, external hard drives and Cinema displays which are now in effect redundant if you consider the new Macbook at the new state of Apple computing. As I've read on this forum this seems like a needless way of differentiating the Macbook against the Pro version and a way of forcing buyers to go for the pricer option. It's even more weird when you consider that they've keep both an original plastic macbook at cheaper price point and the 17 pro in the overall product family. For a company that prides itself on the aesthetic this seems frankenstein like lineup, much in the way my Alu Imac, has a matching Alu keyboard and then nice gloss white mighty mouse to spoil the effect.

Someone please tell me it's me!!!!!

[Timon]

But it doesn't have Firewire, or the option for a 7200RPM drive, so even with that extra graphics power the machine still isn't suitable for multimedia work. Not to mention they actually downgraded the processor.

I agree that they should have kept the firewire but are you kidding about downgrading the processor. It's an upgrade, it may only be 2.0 instead of 2.1 but it's got a 1066Mhz front side buss instead of a 800. That will more than makeup for the 0.1 loss in processor speed. Oh, one more thing, we don't know which processor so a 2.0 could be faster than a 2.1.

[kaiser_soze]

The more I look at this the more angry I get. The options for the new "MacBook Pro", which is now really just a larger version of the MacBook, include the option for a 7200 rpm hard drive. No such option is offerred for the MacBook! The form factor of the drives is certain to be the same, so this amounts to an arbitrary decision that was likely motivated by the expectation that it would encourage people to buy the "MacBook Pro" (which is now really just a larger verson of the MacBook) instead! This is absurd, and it just pisses me off. Aaaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh!

I am really, really disgusted with Apple. I rue the day that I bought Apple stock, and if there were a shareholder vote on whether to fire Jobs, I would not hesitate to fire him. This is all screwed up. It should have been about the reduction of the manufacturing cost so that MacBooks could be cost competitive with other notebook computers, and instead what they did was to substantially increase the manufacturing cost by requireing the chassis to be cut out on ultra expensive CNC machinery. It is utterly asinine. They didn't address the problem with the system fonts not being scalable, and instead of lowering their cost per unit, they increased their cost per unit! They added a nice touchpad and improved the graphics speed, but the 15" MacBook Pro now has the crappy keyboard and crappy glossy screen of the MacBook! This is all in all just about as moronic as it could possibly be! I'm stunned that Jobs presided over this disaster, and I for one advocate that he should be replaced immediately! He has quite obviously lost his mind!

[TBaggins]

Apple is an aspirational brand... if you can't afford a Macbook than figure out a way to change your life, make more money, and move on. I think people forget that the iPhone is only $200 in the US because AT&T is paying.

... No, let's turn our energy towards paying down our own debts, reigning in our wasteful spending, and making due with what we have. In time we will be rewarded with a Mac portable worthy of the Apple brand.

No offense, but your apparent elitism is a bit tiresome. :\

While I personally am doing very well financially (recently came into a great deal money, and thanks to the timing, am able to invest it in the market when it's at or near a bottom), it doesn't change my view that the new MacBooks aren't a particularly great value. And the puzzling lack of FireWire worsens the equation.

Maybe I'm looking at it from more of an investor standpoint, but Apple had an opportunity to grab quite a bit of marketshare, above and beyond what they've been able to peel away from MS to date. They didn't do it. It's disappointing.\

And the market apparently agrees, as AAPL nosedived quite a lot more than the DOW and 'DAQ did during/right after the event.

Add to my annoyance that my current notebook is about at the end of its lifespan, and that I may have to hold my nose a bit and buy one of these no-FireWire MBs (or grossly overpay for an MBP).

...

[dr_lha]

I guess i'm irked by the UK/US price difference. Which i don't honestly think is all down to VAT or importing or doing business in the UK. In the past comparable prices have been pretty close bar the cost of the 160Gb Apple TV which is still a rip off price here in UK-land.
Yeah, but in the past the pound was worth more dollars than it is today. The dollar-pound rate changes, you can't expect Apple to change their prices daily to always match the current exchange rate.

[rickag]

You can put firewire in if they have an ExpressCard slot.

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fwusbexpresscard34.html

I know it would be handy to have it built into the computer, but still, you aren't dead in the water.
Thank you for the information, I was about to ask whether this existed.

Opps, spoked too fast, the MacBook does not have an ExpressCard slot. :(

[dr_lha]

Thank you for the information, I was about to ask whether this existed.
You don't need it though because the MacBook Pro has Firewire 800.

[Bregalad]

The rumors say they'll introduce a $799 or $899 MacBook and they go and RAISE prices?? In this economy??

No wonder the stock is getting hammered. I should have sold yesterday.

[jowie74]

I agree with the comments on no Firewire... I hadn't noticed that before. The arguments kind of remind me of all the hoopla surrounding the lack of a floppy drive on the original iMac though. Is it really that big of a deal?
For me, yes. A very big deal. I use it all the time for networking, so I can do fast backups. Also what of Target Mode? I also have an older 3G iPod which uses Firewire. I'm a bit gutted with the new NVidia video, but I'm so glad I've got my Firewire.

Another thing - USB = sh*t, Firewire = great. One USB port would have done. I don't get why they're moving everything to USB. It's terrible.

[MartiNZ]

Let me be the first to say, the real successor to the 12" Powerbook is FINALLY here!

Hear, hear!

I sold my 12" PB in March and got a Feb '08 MBP. Now I'm thinking hard about going for the entry level MacBook!

The display quality and non-LED-backlit-ness and the poor integrated graphics in the MB were what drove me to the higher end, and there is now much more feature parity there - LED-backlighting, check; much better graphics, check.

Not to mention very pretty new form factor, big jumps for FSB and RAM speed, and the option for a non-backlit keyboard (the new arrangement in the F-keys irks me, and I haven't ever found a -need- for the lighting) are pretty appealing. I will also welcome a return to the smaller size, especially for carrying around, and I should be able to sell the MBP for more than the stock-with-max-RAM 2.0GHz MB!

Finally, I've been enjoying using the new Apple wireless chiclet keyboard more than I do the old MBP style one; and my needs/wants have changed a bit. While I will undoubtedly be tempted back to WoW with the new expansion next month, I don't really feel the need to play any more demanding games; I tried to like Age of Empires III, which I have been running on Vista on the MBP; but it just isn't anything like as good fun as AoE II, and now they're not going to do any more updates or new games anyway *sigh*.

I agree it's a shame that there is no 7200 RPM drive option on the MB though. There is the smaller SSD, but at quite a cost! What is the speed of the SSDs like btw, as compared to 5400 or 7200?

To recap, the 12" PB's second coming ... has come.

[nowayout11]

"Revolutionary" really gets abused here at times. Apple's giving themselves a huge pat on the back for their manufacturing, but at the end of the day nobody's going to know or care what a unibody is or the "story behind every part".

What they WILL care about is the price, and the stunted specifications. Apple's starting to go too far with their form over function mantra, and it's getting a little tiring to listen to their propaganda about how awesome they are.

[smartz]

Yeah, but in the past the pound was worth more dollars than it is today. The dollar-pound rate changes, you can't expect Apple to change their prices daily to always match the current exchange rate.

I think a margin of fairness is needed. I guess the worrying thing for this long time mac user is that despite being a fan-boy to a certain extreme i see more and more examples of Apple doing what it thinks is best.....for Apple....or Microfruit.

These product releases are ill suited to these times, I guess i feel like a bit like the goalposts have shifted too far away from my consumer wants and moved more towards Apple's spooning dictat.

It's like VW announcing a new everyman car , which is doubtlessly engineered to perfection but still costs $30,000 oh and unlike the previous model has a no drive-by-fire-wire. But thats ok cause they'll still sell you last years model oh and thats gone up by $50.00.

I think that the backlash on this one will be felt at one infinite loop. I'll now park my card back in wallet and await REVB.

[SpamSandwich]

Yeah, with no Firewire the 13" MacBook is seriously hobbled.

There's just no good reason for this except to drive people to the MacBook Pro. Insane.

[deltatux]

What surprises me, my friends and my professor is the fact that Apple dropped FireWire-400 off the new Macbooks.

Why would they remove such an important interface? Just when other laptop makers are adding IEEE-1394, Apple is taking it out? Does that even make sense? At least give us 4 USB 2.0 like other manufacturers then...

However, I do praise the new DDR3 and NVIDIA graphics chip because the Intel option was abysmal at best.

deltatux

[diskimage]

Since the entry $999 Macbook is likely aimed at college students it will really cost $899 because of the education discount.

Nope.
The $999 MacBook only gets a $50 discount so it is still $949.

[Buck]

Yeah people will swallow it and all will be fine, but listen to Ive talking in the video about how he managed to pull every 'non-essential' feature from the MacBook. They seem to be trying to make another Air so the next time they'll remove the ethernet connection and tell everyone to buy Airport Express.
Also I'm kinda worried about how Ive says he doesn't know how a notebook could be even more minimalist/essential whatever. Obviously, the rumored Mac[Book] Touch comes to mind. Does that mean no such thing is in the works? That would be pretty disappointing news.

[dr_lha]

The rumors say they'll introduce a $799 or $899 MacBook and they go and RAISE prices?? In this economy??

No wonder the stock is getting hammered. I should have sold yesterday.
To be fair they did actually drop the price of the MacBook to $999 from $1099 and included a Superdrive as standard (about time, it was embarrassing to still have combo-drives in the low end laptops). So in actual fact, MacBooks got cheaper today.

[johndoe]

FYI: Backlit keys are still a "Pro" feature only. EDIT: OK, so now the store is up it appears I'm wrong, sorry. It doesn't list backlit keyboard on the Tech Specs page, but does on the Apple store when you try to purchase one.

Nope, you only get the backlit keyboard if you cough up for the $1599 version.

"An illuminated keyboard, a popular feature of MacBook Pro and MacBook Air,now comes standard on the 2.4GHz MacBook model."

http://www.apple.com/macbook/features.html

[bokuwaomar]

The rumors say they'll introduce a $799 or $899 MacBook and they go and RAISE prices?? In this economy??

No wonder the stock is getting hammered. I should have sold yesterday.
You should never take rumors as fact. The economic crisis that we're in now did not exist a year ago when these models were being designed. Bad timing? Maybe. Crazy? No. The next time around, the $999 Macbook will be of the new design and the price points will end up being lower anyway.

I am a bit saddened about the lack of firewire (casualty of putting all the ports on the left), but not enough to refuse to buy it. A 15 inch macbook model would make more sense than the 13 inch $1599 model though. Something needs to bridge the huge gap between the consumer and pro laptop lines. Oh, and Apple could have inexpensively bumped the RAM in the entry Macbook model to 2GB.

[rogue68]

Yeah, but in the past the pound was worth more dollars than it is today. The dollar-pound rate changes, you can't expect Apple to change their prices daily to always match the current exchange rate.

Are you kidding? The dollar has plummeted against the pound in the last few months.

Apple might have been planning to make hay while the sun shines out of UK customers, but the differential's a joke.

[minderbinder]

AAPL was down by as much as 7.05 right after the event. That's more than a 6% drop, not a 'couple of percent'. And the market as a whole was not down by nearly that much at the time.

AAPL had already been down a couple percent before the event started, and the dow started dropping at the exact same time as AAPL - apple did only drop a couple percent more than the dow did during that time.

To be fair they did actually drop the price of the MacBook to $999 from $1099 and included a Superdrive as standard (about time, it was embarrassing to still have combo-drives in the low end laptops). So in actual fact, MacBooks got cheaper today.

For a model that's a year out of date, that's not cheap enough. Too little, too late. The new price on the white model doesn't seem much different than refurb pricing on old models, I don't really see that as much of a price drop.

[hillstones]

No FireWire, no sale. What a mistake. When you go on vacation, you take your laptop. You also take your MiniDV camera too. Now with the new MacBook, you cannot import video while on vacation. Why waste money on two USB ports? There should have been one USB, one FireWire. If you want more devices, buy a damn hub!

They always find ways to cut features that people still use! They learned their mistake when they cut the Audio In years ago, and that returned in a later model. So maybe Apple will realize their mistake once again.

[diskimage]

I have heard that aluminum shortens the range of wifi, but the wifi antenna is is not surrounded by aluminum on these MacBooks, they have glass on one side and aluminum on the other. Any thoughts on what this will do for the range? If it raises it significantly that may be one reason for the glass on these and on the iMac.
And the glass looks nice :)

[MiMac]

There's just no good reason for this except to drive people to the MacBook Pro. Insane.

Or to drive people away from the platform altogether.
As someone else here already pointed out, nearly all of the other notebook manufacturers are including FireWire as standard on their new models. Apple , in their infinite wisdom, takes it out! Utterly insane!

Apple R&D has F****d up big time with this and Jobs is a fool to let this happen. Something like omitting a FireWire port costing a couple of bucks is gonna cost Apple dearly in sales. I had been geared up to buy a new MacBook but now I will certainly pass on this ornamental piece of crap. Too expensive to go the Pro option. Man, this sucks!

[cosmickd]

Does anyone know if you can buy a 320 GB HD from toshiba for $75.00 and just install it yourself instead of spending $200.00 for it through the apple store?

[robb01]

I can't wait to get one http://1person1million.com/img/158/p08k0929xkkl/icon_mrgreen.gif

___________________
http://1person1million.com/img/128/p08m1008zcpf/apple-ipod-clipart9.gif

[thesmoth]

Anyone care to explain how the price of the bottom end macbook just went UP $100 dollars in Canadian retailers (WITH education discount)?

I was $1050, and now it is $1150 with a super drive.


So we are paying an extra $100 dollars for a super drive, when that combo drive should have been dead years ago, and probably cost them MORE than the super drive (which they put it in just to differentiate products and scam us out of more money). So basically Apple is proving themselves to be a sneaky scamming poor company.

[robb01]

Anyone care to explain how the price of the bottom end macbook just went UP $100 dollars in Canadian retailers (WITH education discount)?

I was $1050, and now it is $1150 with a super drive.


So we are paying an extra $100 dollars for a super drive, when that combo drive should have been dead years ago, and probably cost them MORE than the super drive (which they put it in just to differentiate products and scam us out of more money). So basically Apple is proving themselves to be a sneaky scamming poor company.
Figures apple would raise the price :rolleyes:

_____________________
http://1person1million.com/img/64/p08m1008zcpf/apple-ipod-clipart9.gif

[AHeneen]

Here's why they don't want to come down in price...it's all their R&D. For instance this directly from the MacBook "Design" page #2:

"There’s a story behind each part. Take the thumbscoop, for example. It’s the indentation that allows you to open the display. If the scoop is too deep, you put too much pressure on the display to open it. If it’s too shallow, you struggle to open the display. It may seem incidental, but if the thumbscoop is well designed, it makes the difference between a bad experience and a good one. The challenge of the thumbscoop was to create a crisply machined scoop that was still comfortable to use. The designers at Apple worked on hundreds of versions of the thumbscoop — even examining them under an electron microscope — to get it right.":???: :lol:

[AHeneen]

Anyone care to explain how the price of the bottom end macbook just went UP $100 dollars in Canadian retailers (WITH education discount)?

I was $1050, and now it is $1150 with a super drive.


So we are paying an extra $100 dollars for a super drive, when that combo drive should have been dead years ago, and probably cost them MORE than the super drive (which they put it in just to differentiate products and scam us out of more money). So basically Apple is proving themselves to be a sneaky scamming poor company.

Because the value of the Canadian dollar went DOWN?
US$1=CAN$0.85 as of 4:26 EDT on xe.com

Wasn't your monopoly money worth more than the dollar a couple of months ago? Now translate that difference to something like a MacBook. A $100 increase is fair.

[thesmoth]

Because the value of the Canadian dollar went DOWN?
US$1=CAN$0.85 as of 4:26 EDT on xe.com

Wasn't your monopoly money worth more than the dollar a couple of months ago? Now translate that difference to something like a MacBook. A $100 increase is fair.

The prices of Macbooks never went DOWN when our money was worth more, so why is it going up now? Let me guess, you're a brain-dead mac fanboy right?

Thanks for the economics lesson.

[TBaggins]

AAPL had already been down a couple percent before the event started, and the dow started dropping at the exact same time as AAPL - apple did only drop a couple percent more than the dow did during that time.


Check the chart below yourself. Fact is, AAPL dropped quite a bit more than the market did as a whole, starting at the time of the event. All times are Eastern:

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL#chart1:symbol=aapl;range=1d;compare =^dji;indicator=dividend+volume;charttype=line;cro sshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=on;source=undefine d



...

[thesmoth]

Here's why they don't want to come down in price...it's all their R&D. For instance this directly from the MacBook "Design" page #2:

"There’s a story behind each part. Take the thumbscoop, for example. It’s the indentation that allows you to open the display. If the scoop is too deep, you put too much pressure on the display to open it. If it’s too shallow, you struggle to open the display. It may seem incidental, but if the thumbscoop is well designed, it makes the difference between a bad experience and a good one. The challenge of the thumbscoop was to create a crisply machined scoop that was still comfortable to use. The designers at Apple worked on hundreds of versions of the thumbscoop — even examining them under an electron microscope — to get it right.":???: :lol:

Under an electron microscope eh? That bit of marketing is assuming that no-one knows what an electron microscope does or how it could be useful in this application. The answer is that it would be of zero use and that is just BS apple marketing to make you fanboys drool.

"OMG acer doesn't use dem fancy TEM microscopes, lollolololol"

What purpose could imaging the 'surface' of aluminum at the atomic level serve? Coming from someone well informed in this subject the answer is that it would serve no purpose. And saying they made hundreds of version?

"Well this latch is too big, lets make it smaller. Oh, well it's too small now, lets make it a size between the two. BINGO, that seems like a good latch groove!"

I hope you people aren't stupid enough to fall for this type of thing and actually use it to justify being ripped off by Apple. I guess it shows that you don't have to be all that smart to make money.

[bokuwaomar]

The prices of Macbooks never went DOWN when our money was worth more, so why is it going up now? Let me guess, you're a brain-dead mac fanboy right?

Thanks for the economics lesson.
I don't recall the Canadian dollar being worth significantly more for a significant amount of time. I thought it was near even with the US dollar for a while. That said, you and Aheneen would do well to drop the insults.

[Mac Voyer]

The $1299 Macbook: does it, or does it not have a BL keyboard?

This (http://www.apple.com/macbook/features.html) suggests the illuminated keyboard is not in the less expensive model, while this (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB466LL/A?mco=MTkzOTIzOQ) most positively declares its presence. Which department didn't get the memo? Was it the marketing department or the retail channel?

By the way based on specs and price, why would anyone buy the $1600 model?

[Timon]

Apple always drops during an event so that's nothing to worry about.

The lack of a firewire port is not good. Here is the feedback I sent to Apple not that it will do any good.

FEEDBACK:

I love the new MacBook designs EXCEPT for ONE BIG PROBLEM on the MacBook.

Why the heck did you drop the firewire port. BIG PROBLEM, I can't connect my video camera anymore, I can use my firewire drives and I can't use Target Mode to migrate and repair problems.

Why Apple, Why.

I would have been much happier to have had one USB and one Firewire port rather than two USB ports.

I really think your going to loose sales because of this. I know that you've lost mine.

So sad, so sad, so sad.

[thesmoth]

I don't recall the Canadian dollar being worth significantly more for a significant amount of time. I thought it was near even with the US dollar for a while. That said, you and Aheneen would do well to drop the insults.

Yes well I think our 'monopoly money' was worth either more than the US dollar, or close to it (i.e: significantly higher than it was previously) for at least a year. A lot of companies adjusted prices for the strength of the Canadian dollar, and Apple was not one of them. Even though the dollar is lower than it was it is still stronger than it used to be way back a few years ago.

[TBaggins]

There's just no good reason for this except to drive people to the MacBook Pro. Insane.


+1. Jobs likely figured that, now that the gfx performance on the MBs is no longer completely horrible (i.e. Intel integrated), he had to add in another artificial distinction between the two lines. As if expandability and screen size weren't enough.

Sux, and will continue to suck so long as Steve has it stuck in his head that you don't deserve a 'real' notebook 'til you're willing to cough up $2000+. :(


...

[Cavallo]

OK - I'm not usually so categorical about such things, but the lack of firewire really is a complete deal-breaker. I never thought I'd say this about an Apple product, but that's the reality.

The points people have made about audio, and to a lesser extent video and older peripherals, are perfectly valid. These users will now be priced out of the Mac market, and hence tempted by cheaper PCs.

That's hardly the worst of it, however. I have an entire newsroom full of reporters that I was planning on trying to persuade the boss to switch to MacBooks (he'd never cough up the dough for Pro models.) Not anymore. Supporting them would be insane without target disk mode. Even if they make target disk mode function over USB, it'll be far slower, and my time is money. I can easily envision this hitting other markets than publishing, like education, for example. Apple have just lost potential sales to an entire department of my company.

Way to cheap-out, Steve. I hope consumers buy a ton of them. Producers certainly won't.

[bokuwaomar]

Yes well I think our 'monopoly money' was worth either more than the US dollar, or close to it (i.e: significantly higher than it was previously) for at least a year. A lot of companies adjusted prices for the strength of the Canadian dollar, and Apple was not one of them. Even though the dollar is lower than it was it is still stronger than it used to be way back a few years ago.
Well, you said the bottom end macbook was $1050 Canadian. It was $1099 US. If the two currencies were near equal around that time, chances are you were getting the better deal.

[Timon]

The $1299 Macbook: does it, or does it not have a BL keyboard?

This (http://www.apple.com/macbook/features.html) suggests the illuminated keyboard is not in the less expensive model, while this (http://store.apple.com/us/configure/MB466LL/A?mco=MTkzOTIzOQ) most positively declares its presence. Which department didn't get the memo? Was it the marketing department or the retail channel?

By the way based on specs and price, why would anyone buy the $1600 model?

If I was going to buy the $1599 model I might skip it and go to the 15" Pro. Larger screen, no shared video memory and who cares about an extra 45 grams at this point. The problem is that it $500 more after paying for Apple Care.


Oh, one more thing:D Why can't they toss in that $19 remote after your paying this much for the computer?

[thesmoth]

Well, you said the bottom end macbook was $1050 Canadian. It was $1099 US. If the two currencies were near equal around that time, chances are you were getting the better deal.

Sorry, that price was WITH educational discount. All prices i've listed are WITH educational discount. The low end macbook is now 1150 with edu discount.

[bokuwaomar]

Sorry, that price was WITH educational discount. All prices i've listed are WITH educational discount. The low end macbook is now 1150 with edu discount.
Ah, that makes more sense then. Kinda sucks :/

[rogue68]

It'd be interesting to know what percentage of Apple's MBP and MB sales are genuine pro users.

If the glossy/firewire combo of changes seriously disrupts sales I'd imagine the 17" MBP will either be matte or have a matte option when it emerges in November and that there'll be a matte option on the next MBP revision.

[Mac Voyer]

Confirmed!!! (Always wanted to do that:))

According to Apple, it only comes on the $1600 model.

[Mr. H]

That's hardly the worst of it, however. I have an entire newsroom full of reporters that I was planning on trying to persuade the boss to switch to MacBooks (he'd never cough up the dough for Pro models.)

er... get the $999 model?

[TBaggins]

er... get the $999 model?


Kinda sad that we have to say that, but yeah. It's probably the best thing that came out of the event, 'cuz it still has FireWire. :(


...

[L-iNC]

I love it how apple leaves out 30€ back lit keyboard out of 1300€ laptop. (: Guess i better get used to bs like this as a new mac user.

[aaarrrgggh]

I guess i'm irked by the UK/US price difference. Which i don't honestly think is all down to VAT or importing or doing business in the UK. In the past comparable prices have been pretty close bar the cost of the 160Gb Apple TV which is still a rip off price here in UK-land.

What bothers me more is the HD camcorder, external hard drives and Cinema displays which are now in effect redundant if you consider the new Macbook at the new state of Apple computing. As I've read on this forum this seems like a needless way of differentiating the Macbook against the Pro version and a way of forcing buyers to go for the pricer option. It's even more weird when you consider that they've keep both an original plastic macbook at cheaper price point and the 17 pro in the overall product family. For a company that prides itself on the aesthetic this seems frankenstein like lineup, much in the way my Alu Imac, has a matching Alu keyboard and then nice gloss white mighty mouse to spoil the effect.

Someone please tell me it's me!!!!!

It's you. The price is based on trending of exchange rates plus VAT. Apple doesn't hedge currencies, so they price products at the expected average exchange rate for the future. Things have actually gotten significantly better over the last two years.

Currently, the $ is getting stronger relative to the GBP, so prices in GBP will go up slightly.

[Zauner]

[QUOTE=John F.;1322757]So it's true, the $1299 and $1599 MacBooks don't have any FireWire. That is a complete rip-off at that price-point. Many older Mac users who want to trade in their Apple notebook and who have FireWire peripherals won't be able to buy a cheap Mac notebook newer style.

Exacly...what am I gonna do with my 2,5" firewire external harddisks? Block both USB ports with an Y-cable???

The price and design show the new macbooks as Mac Book Pros - just with left out ports. Where's the Macbook for the masses, the world's most wanted cook Macbook? Ah, just bye the 999 plastic book?? At least it's got firewire...and..I'm sure a combo drive...

[minderbinder]

Check the chart below yourself. Fact is, AAPL dropped quite a bit more than the market did as a whole, starting at the time of the event.

I did check the chart - at most AAPL was only down about 3% more than the dow, as I said a couple of points. I guess we just don't agree whether three percent is "quite a bit more".

People always try to insist that the stock price somehow "proves" that the market hates apple's new announcements, and today sure looks like one of the times there's no real evidence for it - apple generally went up when the market went up and down when the market went down.

[thesmoth]

Here is my prediction for the next few months until macworld (probably won't happen but I hope so because Apple deserves it).

- Apple notebook sales decrease due to the obvious reasons. They are nice and there will always be people buying them, but due to the poor nature of the upgrade of specs and the big price hike I think a lot of people will be staying away. The economy will continue to tank and people will be even further pushed towards the sub $1000 dollar range of PC notebooks. And no, Apples $1150, low end, year old note book does NOT suffice for that category. Around Macbook time it would be great to then see either some real spec increases on the notebooks with no price increase, or a price cut.

It would be nice if Apple suffered for it's stupid mistakes and then finally had to make them right, but knowing how the world works I doubt that will happen.

[Bregalad]

I'm still having trouble understanding how Apple could remove target disk mode and, in doing so, cripple their migration manager.

Buying a new Mac was always a joy because it was so easy to get back up and running with all your applications and files in the correct place. Now what are we supposed to do?

I was going to buy my wife a new MacBook for Christmas. You just lost a sale.

[TenoBell]

No FireWire, no sale. What a mistake. When you go on vacation, you take your laptop. You also take your MiniDV camera too. Now with the new MacBook, you cannot import video while on vacation. Why waste money on two USB ports? There should have been one USB, one FireWire. If you want more devices, buy a damn hub!

They always find ways to cut features that people still use! They learned their mistake when they cut the Audio In years ago, and that returned in a later model. So maybe Apple will realize their mistake once again.

Panasonic HD cameras with USB port (http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Camcorders/Hi-Def-Camcorders/model.HDC-HS100.S_11002_7000000000000005702#tabsection)

JVC HD cameras with USB port (http://camcorder.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL027875&pathId=141&page=15)

[applebook]

I really can't see the point in making the MB and MBP look identical. Why not just introduce a 13" MBP instead and adopt a different styling for the MB - preferably with some colour options.

I couldn't agree more. Apple should have just called the 13" MB a MBP because its price is darn high.

Apple should have then kept the plastic MB and left it alone, except boosted its specs and lowered its prices from 899-1049 for different models.

Also, I fully disagree that this is the "new 12" PowerBook." The size of this thing is still wider and deeper than the 12" PowerBook.

[TBaggins]

[QUOTE=John F.;1322757]So it's true, the $1299 and $1599 MacBooks don't have any FireWire. That is a complete rip-off at that price-point. Many older Mac users who want to trade in their Apple notebook and who have FireWire peripherals won't be able to buy a cheap Mac notebook newer style.

Exacly...what am I gonna do with my 2,5" firewire external harddisks? Block both USB ports with an Y-cable???

The price and design show the new macbooks as Mac Book Pros - just with left out ports. Where's the Macbook for the masses, the world's most wanted cook Macbook?

Ah, just buy the 999 plastic book?? At least it's got firewire...and..I'm sure a combo drive...


Actually, Steve forgot to cock that one up somehow... the $999 MB comes with a SuperDrive now.

....

[applebook]

Apple is pedaling the MacBook as just like the Pro, but smaller and $700 cheaper. But it doesn't have Firewire, or the option for a 7200RPM drive, so even with that extra graphics power the machine still isn't suitable for multimedia work. Not to mention they actually downgraded the processor. And the $999 plastic MacBook should sell for $799.


Based on the syntax of your composition, you ar saying that Apple "downgraded" the CPU on the new MB, and this is simply untrue.

[minderbinder]

I'm still having trouble understanding how Apple could remove target disk mode and, in doing so, cripple their migration manager.

Supposedly with the AIR it works over ethernet. I assume with other machines with no FW it would work the same way.

Based on the syntax of your composition, you ar saying that Apple "downgraded" the CPU on the new MB, and this is simply untrue.

It is a lower clock speed, isn't it? There's no question some people will consider that a downgrade.

Is it a different chip architecture or does it have some other way of the CPU being faster at a lower clock?

[icibaqu]

The backlit keyboard does show as an option to choose in the dropdown for purchasing the unit for the 1300 version of the macbook.

that's all.

[Zauner]

well, if you don't want to call it downgrade...well....status quo? Cause it's definately no upgrade. The small macbook got a downgrade at 2.0 Ghz.

And...status quo...IS a downgrade in IT industry, by the way...

[thesmoth]

Based on the syntax of your composition, you ar saying that Apple "downgraded" the CPU on the new MB, and this is simply untrue.

The low-end new macbook (or the middle range macbook now) has a 2.0ghz processor for $1350 or so. The OLD mid-range macbook had a 2.4ghz processor for $1250. His statement is therefore completely correct. What exactly are YOU referring to?

[Bancho]

Confirmed!!! (Always wanted to do that:))

According to Apple, it only comes on the $1600 model.

The store shows that both aluminum Macbook models ($1299 and $1599) get the backlit keyboard. (It's at odds with the tech specs page.)

[Zauner]

it's kind of the same C2D processor. So it's a downgrade. No matter if it got a faster graphics chip.

First processor downgrade in history

[bwik]

The more I look at this the more angry I get.

I am really, really disgusted with Apple. I rue the day that I bought Apple stock, and if there were a shareholder vote on whether to fire Jobs, I would not hesitate to fire him. This is all screwed up. It should have been about the reduction of the manufacturing cost so that MacBooks could be cost competitive with other notebook computers, and instead what they did was to substantially increase the manufacturing cost by requireing the chassis to be cut out on ultra expensive CNC machinery. It is utterly asinine.


I don't understand why BMW doesn't just use Kia components to become more cost competitive. BMW would be way cheaper if they used flimsy, outdated parts and ugly designs. Why don't we also fire BMW's management. Who cares if they are profitable, you and I know better. We can easily outsmart the management of BMW and Apple. Shall we start tomorrow? :err::err::err::err::err:

[trboyden]

Does anyone know if you can buy a 320 GB HD from toshiba for $75.00 and just install it yourself instead of spending $200.00 for it through the apple store?

Yes you can, I just bought a 320 Gb drive for my Black MacBook (with Firewire ;-p ). It works great.

What happened to all the Mac Fanboys? Apple can do no wrong, right?!

That nice new Lenovo IdeaPad S10 at $399 looks better and better everyday. I have a nice powerful Mac desktop at home, don't need an overpriced laptop for traveling...

Anyone want to buy my MacBook? $1300 firm

[TBaggins]

I did check the chart - at most AAPL was only down about 3% more than the dow, as I said a couple of points. I guess we just don't agree whether three percent is "quite a bit more".


Sigh... don't know why you keep on minimizing this... incorrectly too. :(

AAPL closed down 5.60% today. The market as a whole closed down 0.82%. The difference was close to 5%... not "3%"... and not a "couple of points". Another way to look at it is that AAPL dropped almost seven times more than the market as a whole, percentage-wise.

So, let's just face it, the market did not like what they heard.


People always try to insist that the stock price somehow "proves" that the market hates apple's new announcements, and today sure looks like one of the times there's no real evidence for it - apple generally went up when the market went up and down when the market went down.


Except that AAPL went down quite a bit more than the market did, post-announcement. And 'people' are often right.

Don't get me wrong, minder... I really wanted to love the new announcements, I really did. But Steve cocked it up. No FW, and only a token toe-dipping into the sub-$1K market via the old model. Kinda sad.

At least they finally put SuperDrives in across the lineup.

...

[minderbinder]

The store shows that both aluminum Macbook models ($1299 and $1599) get the backlit keyboard.

There is conflicting info on different parts of Apple's website. I'll bet only the pricier model has backlit keys.

[bwik]

The store shows that both aluminum Macbook models ($1299 and $1599) get the backlit keyboard.

According to the online spec sheets, there are separate keyboard descriptions for the 2.0ghz and 2.4ghz versions. One includes the word "illuminated" and one does not. There must be some truth to that.

[minderbinder]

it's kind of the same C2D processor. So it's a downgrade. No matter if it got a faster graphics chip.

First processor downgrade in history

Nah, apple has done similar things before.

[mcl116]

when is rev b supposed to come out? these are not that enticing as of now. I'm not so sure what to do anymore:\:mad:

[bwik]

Sigh... don't know why you keep on minimizing this... incorrectly too. :(

AAPL closed down 5.60% today. The market as a whole closed down 0.82%. The difference was close to 5%... not "3%"... and not a "couple of points".

Just face it, the market did not like what they heard.


...

You must have been born yesterday.

For the last 20 product introductions (often of industry-leading, immensely profitable new produts) the AAPL stock price usually went down.

AAPL still made money. Will they keep making large buckets of profits on the Macbook franchise, yes dear, they will.

[L-iNC]

The store shows that both aluminum Macbook models ($1299 and $1599) get the backlit keyboard. (It's at odds with the tech specs page.)

That's probably just a mistake. Depending on your country it's fixed by now and the cheaper model comes without(even the option to upgrade) backlit keyboard.

[Bancho]

According to the online spec sheets, there are separate keyboard descriptions for the 2.0ghz and 2.4ghz versions. One includes the word "illuminated" and one does not. There must be some truth to that.

My post was amended to show that the store, and specs page are not in agreement.

[graxspoo]

NO Firewire on MacBook, NO PURCHASE!

Totally agree. I was excited to hear about the new enclosure, but without Firewire, this is a downgrade from my existing MacBook. So, thanks Apple, but no-thanks.

[Marek]

This is a disaster. I could get used to the "shiny" screen, which is unsuitable for portables and using it in the "open air", and which i dislike because of its reflections,
but no FireWire!? i have LaCie FireWire Speakers, and although my external hard drive supports USB, i always like to use it as FireWire(400/800), beacuse USB is used anyway for other things like usb stick, keyboard/mouse and so on. But Apple makes this great and fast machine, and instead of upgrading FW400 through adding FW800, it totally drops it-its own invention!?
i really like the specs and graphics of the laptop, but as much as this i miss FW800.

[mitchleeh]

People,

I'm new, long time mac user, but have been reading for awhile. If you really want to see your complaints go to good use, and want do see change, then go here (someone else already suggested, but nothing really was done):

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

Make an official complaint, and I can promise you that if enough of us do it, apple will listen - and HOPEFULLY change prices and problems!

Please please please do it! Complain about whatever you want - just make sure you include the crappy prices!

Thanks!

[ICD-EVIL]

I'm more pissed off that I have to buy an adapter to connect the computer up to my LCD. I really don't use firewire on a regular basis anyways, but the higher price-point is a huge let down nonetheless.

The education discount is basically nothing too, they give me $50 off, wow.

[MartiNZ]

That's probably just a mistake. Depending on your country it's fixed by now and the cheaper model comes without(even the option to upgrade) backlit keyboard.

Indeed, and I'm quite pleased about this. One OPTION that we still have. I'd rather have the laptop's F-keys freed up for Exposé than, in my usage, the gimmicky backlit keyboard.

[Marek]

Totally agree. I was excited to hear about the new enclosure, but without Firewire, this is a downgrade from my existing MacBook. So, thanks Apple, but no-thanks.

Apple is just ignoring thousands of MacBook(and other Mac-) users who have lots of FireWire equipment around. New buyers may not miss the FireWire, but what about the current Mac-users? To buy a MacBook Pro just because of FW-interface is not a solution. I dont want to spend so much money, i i want a small notebook, and i dont need 15" screen because my main screen is 24" Cinema -which btw. supports FW400.

[minderbinder]

AAPL closed down 5.60% today.

To be clear, my original post was hours ago and at that point Apple was moving the same direction as the markets and only a couple points lower. And the NASDAQ, which is more tech centric, was down 3.5%, which is within about two points of apple's drop.

I thought the announcements today were pretty lousy. But I just think people often take the stock price out of context to try and prove their point.

[TBaggins]

You must have been born yesterday.

For the last 20 product introductions (often of industry-leading, immensely profitable new produts) the AAPL stock price usually went down.


You mean like after the iPhone was announced at MW '07? Stock shot up quite a lot, actually.

Stop being a fanboy. :rolleyes:


...

[Rokken]

I have no idea how Apple describe in their US online store since it's always "We will be back soon", but in the Norwegian store, it is stated that only the $1599 has illuminated keyboard.

There are also someone wondering why the price of the white MacBook has increased in the UK store, but it's not the case in Norway. It is not $200 cheaper though. It's just $14 cheaper than before, but at least not any more expensive. I used to reckon the price is the same across Europe, but it seems not to be that case.

I didn't put my money on them lowering the price, but not raising the price either. If I did not receive something extra that will cover this raised cost, I will most likely have ordered the white MacBook. I am still a bit let down by the price raise though.

As for the missing Firewire in the new MacBook, I don't think the vast majority will miss it, even though it is a deal-breaker for the prosumers.

[TBaggins]

I thought the announcements today were pretty lousy. But I just think people often take the stock price out of context to try and prove their point.


My main point was that the announcements today were, as you said, pretty lousy, and that investors in general viewed them as pretty lousy too.

So basically, all of us are in agreement.

...

[mitchleeh]

WOOPS!

just send negative feedback here please!

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

together we can make a difference! all fanboy/rumor sites need to encourage users to send feedback here... change will happen!!!

[TBaggins]

People,

I'm new, long time mac user, but have been reading for awhile. If you really want to see your complaints go to good use, and want do see change, then go here (someone else already suggested, but nothing really was done):

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

Make an official complaint, and I can promise you that if enough of us do it, apple will listen - and HOPEFULLY change prices and problems!

Please please please do it! Complain about whatever you want - just make sure you include the crappy prices!




EXCELLENT idea!


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e254/eatpizza4chickens/ChuckNorrisThumbsUp.png



I'd ALSO recommend sending a few emails to sjobs@apple.com


....

[infinitespecter]

Also, I fully disagree that this is the "new 12" PowerBook." The size of this thing is still wider and deeper than the 12" PowerBook.

Of course it is wider, It's using a 13" screen. I said that this is the most complete successor to the 12" Powerbook Apple has made so far. The old MacBooks were larger and heavier with no real graphics card and the Air is positioned for a different market. This is aluminum with a discreet graphics card (albeit with shared memory) and it weighs well under 5lbs. It doesn't have an expresscard slot, but neither did the 12" Powerbook. Until today, I was prepared to go out and buy a Sony 13" notebook because nothing Apple made appealed to me. This does virtually everything I want (well, I wanted BluRay, but I can wait for that) at over a grand less.

[gwmac]

Imagine how well these new MB's would have sold if they had added an expresscard slot (so we could get firewire, eSata, etc..) or just kept a firewire port AND also started at $999.

It has nothing to do with cost, if other companies can include expresscard and firewire in laptops for $599, Apple could at $999. Hell, even at $1299 that would have at least been worth it. Apple really screwed the pooch with this one.

Please send comments to http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html and let them know just how dissapointed we are.

[minderbinder]

My main point was that the announcements today were, as you said, pretty lousy, and that investors in general viewed them as pretty lousy too.

So basically, all of us are in agreement.

...

The first half I agree with, the second half not really.

[mitchleeh]

thank you thank you... it will work if we can just get momentum.

mr steve will listen to us... this is an outrage.

or alternatively, just don't buy. that would work too.

who is with me?

[TBaggins]

The first half I agree with, the second half not really.


I would've thought that it would've been obvious given how AAPL started its dive at the same time as the announcement, and went down significantly more than the market as a whole, but ppl see what they want to see I guess.


...

[TBaggins]

thank you thank you... it will work if we can just get momentum.

mr steve will listen to us... this is an outrage.

or alternatively, just don't buy. that would work too.

who is with me?


http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/images/braveheart.jpg

[minderbinder]

I would've thought that it would've been obvious given how AAPL started its dive at the same time as the announcement, and went down significantly more than the market as a whole, but ppl see what they want to see I guess.

And I would have thought it would have been obvious that the averages started their dive at the same time as AAPL's dive. And I don't think most people would consider a 2-4 point difference significantly more.

But whatever, as you said, people see what they want to see.

[steve666]

You should never take rumors as fact. The economic crisis that we're in now did not exist a year ago when these models were being designed. Bad timing? Maybe. Crazy? No. The next time around, the $999 Macbook will be of the new design and the price points will end up being lower anyway.

I am a bit saddened about the lack of firewire (casualty of putting all the ports on the left), but not enough to refuse to buy it. A 15 inch macbook model would make more sense than the 13 inch $1599 model though. Something needs to bridge the huge gap between the consumer and pro laptop lines. Oh, and Apple could have inexpensively bumped the RAM in the entry Macbook model to 2GB.

Yup, I was waiting for a slightly larger macbook. Apple is the only computer maker without a 15 inch consumer model laptop. I want to use it as a main computer and 13 inches is just too small and $2000 for a macbook Pro is just too much.
I keep looking for ways to spend money on a new computer but Apple just refuses to take my money.

[TBaggins]

And I would have thought it would have been obvious that the averages started their dive at the same time as AAPL's dive. And I don't think most people would consider a 2-4 point difference significantly more.

But whatever, as you said, people see what they want to see.


If you think investors are lovin' what they saw today, then I don't know what to tell ya. :err:

AAPL will recover, but not based on anything that came out of today's event. This was a 'stay the course' refresh, that also unfortunately re-affirmed Apple's reluctance to eat Dell's, HP's, etc's lunch in the upper reaches of the sub-$1K market.

And the pulling of FW was a slap in the face.


...

[TenoBell]

thank you thank you... it will work if we can just get momentum.

mr steve will listen to us... this is an outrage.

or alternatively, just don't buy. that would work too.

who is with me?

We on this board are not the majority of Apples revenue and marketshare gains.

Apple's gains come from people who are busy living real life and pay as little attention to technology and spec sheets as possible.

Opinions on this board are like a fart in a hurricane in the larger sense.

[TenoBell]

If you think investors are lovin' what they saw today, then I don't know what to tell ya. :err:

AAPL will recover, but not based on anything that came out of today's event. This was a 'stay the course' refresh, that also unfortunately re-affirmed Apple's reluctance to eat Dell's, HP's, etc's lunch in the sub-$1K market.

And the pulling of FW was a slap in the face.


...

Looking at day to day stock gains and falls is just this side of useless. Its the long term trends that matter most.

Pulling FW is a slap in the face who? When most in the PC market don't use it.

[mitchleeh]

We on this board are not the majority of Apples revenue and marketshare gains.

Apple's gains come from people who are busy living real life and pay as little attention to technology and spec sheets as possible.

Opinions on this board are like a fart in a hurricane in the larger sense.

alright! you did not understand! you have mistaken me!

this is not an opinion, but an order and a command to actually do something.

you have the same mentality as some who does not vote... aka "why does it matter, i am one face in the crowd of millions."

you dont understand how easy changes in prices could be made with a group of people sending feedback.

it's simple, and it takes 32.4 seconds.

im sure your reply to this will take much much longer.

[TBaggins]

Opinions on this board are like a fart in a hurricane in the larger sense.

And yet somehow, the Internet-based outrage over the screwing of early iPhone adopters got Apple to give out $100 credit coupons.

Don't kid yourself, Apple does listen, if only sometimes.

...

[mitchleeh]

We on this board are not the majority of Apples revenue and marketshare gains.

Apple's gains come from people who are busy living real life and pay as little attention to technology and spec sheets as possible.

Opinions on this board are like a fart in a hurricane in the larger sense.

And yet somehow, the Internet-based outrage over the screwing of early iPhone adopters got Apple to give out $100 credit coupons.

Don't kid yourself, Apple does listen, if only sometimes.

...

Thank you for your faith! Tell all your friends, and forum buddies! Don't listen to the haters!

[gwmac]

Looking at day to day stock gains and falls is just this side of useless. Its the long term trends that matter most.

Pulling FW is a slap in the face who? When most in the PC market don't use it.

I will give you the point about most people not using firewire, but most Apple users looking to upgrade certainly do use firewire.

$1299 is a big enough slap in the face, no firewire and no expresscard slot is more like a knee to the nuts.

[TBaggins]

Looking at day to day stock gains and falls is just this side of useless. Its the long term trends that matter most.

Since you don't offer any support of this beyond your opinion, I'm gonna assume you don't have an argument here.

Pulling FW is a slap in the face who? When most in the PC market don't use it.

Who cares what those in the PC market do? We're Mac users, and plenty of us have FW hardware.

...

[minderbinder]

Yup, I was waiting for a slightly larger macbook. Apple is the only computer maker without a 15 inch consumer model laptop.

Amen to that. You can buy a PC laptop with 17 inch screen for less than the cheapest macbook, why can't apple offer budget versions of the different screen sizes?

If you think investors are lovin' what they saw today, then I don't know what to tell ya.

I don't think they're lovin' it. I just don't think when a stock follows the same directions as the broader markets, only going a couple points further, it's significant enough to draw a conclusion from. If The Market really has an opinion on something, it's going to make a change bigger than the ones that happen on any random day when there's no news.

To use what is probably a weak analogy, if this were an election poll, the change would be within the margin of error.

[TBaggins]

Thank you for your faith! Tell all your friends, and forum buddies! Don't listen to the haters!

They're not 'haters' so much as guys who worship 'the Steve way' overly much and always go along with the party line, no matter what.

Anyways, those who have something to say about the the announcements? sjobs@apple.com is the addy. Let 'im know what you think. 8-)

And yes, the Feedback thing on Apple's site.

...

[TenoBell]

alright! you did not understand! you have mistaken me!

this is not an opinion, but an order and a command to actually do something.

you have the same mentality as some who does not vote... aka "why does it matter, i am one face in the crowd of millions."

you dont understand how easy changes in prices could be made with a group of people sending feedback.

it's simple, and it takes 32.4 seconds.

im sure your reply to this will take much much longer.

The real and ultimate vote is with money.

If the market doesn't like Apples line up and sales go down then it was a bad choice. If Apple sales continue their rise then it was the right choice.

[TenoBell]

And yet somehow, the Internet-based outrage over the screwing of early iPhone adopters got Apple to give out $100 credit coupons.

Don't kid yourself, Apple does listen, if only sometimes.

...

People like to think it to give them some source of power. But we don't know that for sure.

People on the web complain about a lot of things about Apple. That doesn't sway them.

[riversky]

Amen to that. The aluminum models are a nice improvement, but it's incredibly stupid for apple to put so much focus on the high end and offer basically nothing for people on a budget. They are telling a large share of the market to get lost.

Huh?? Well so is Porsche, Bentley and Aston Martin...... You have to pay for premium brands and technology. You can always drive a Honda. Solution. Make more money.

[TBaggins]

WOOPS!

just send negative feedback here please!

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

together we can make a difference! all fanboy/rumor sites need to encourage users to send feedback here... change will happen!!!





Re-Quoted for Truth™. 8-)


...

[RichL]

Man, I was all ready to replace my old MBP with one of the new 15" models but those UK prices are insane. I guess my current one will have to last a bit longer. :(

[TenoBell]

Since you don't offer any support of this beyond your opinion, I'm gonna assume you don't have an argument here.

Its the truth. But it doesn't fit the conclusion you want to make.



Who cares what those in the PC market do? We're Mac users, and plenty of us have FW hardware.

...

Because 50% of people buying Macs are coming from the PC. Those people have not and will not use FW.

[gwmac]

Looks like I might finally be willing to try out OSX86 and build my own Hackintosh. It is apparent that Apple will not release a laptop for me.

At $699 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8989026&type=product&id=1218006773510) this looks pretty damn sweet. 4 USB, Firewire, 15.4", 320GB, 4GB Ram, and an expresscard slot. Seems like this one works well with OSX86 too.

[TBaggins]

People like to think it to give them some source of power. But we don't know that for sure.

People on the web complain about a lot of things about Apple. That doesn't sway them.


Teno, if you want to be a nattering nabob of negativity, that's your deal. Easiest thing in the world is to sit on your arse and go along.

But some ppl prefer to speak up. 8-)

...

[mitchleeh]

Re-Quoted for Truth™. 8-)


...

Dude, spread it on other sites!

[crackbook]

I think apple has actually overdone it this time. the new macbook is the same price as one i bought 14 months ago but has worse specs. Its nice they spent so much time and money on making it look pretty, its what defines apple, but you can't compensate by downgrading the actual COMPUTER part. what happened to moores law? not for apple - who wants a sh*tty 160GB hard drive? the seagate 320gb drives that the earlier version came with are about US$50 retail but apple wants 4 times that just to upgrade the drive. Anyone really care about the graphics card on a 13 inch screen? who runs graphic intensive programmes on a macbook screen? extra costs anyone? you now have to fork out $19 just for the remote? and lets not forget the essential hidden cost of applecare protection... because you know you're going to need it.

[TenoBell]

They're not 'haters' so much as guys who worship 'the Steve way' overly much and always go along with the party line, no matter what.

Anyways, those who have something to say about the the announcements? sjobs@apple.com is the addy. Let 'im know what you think. 8-)

And yes, the Feedback thing on Apple's site.

...

Anyone who doesn't criticize Apple automatically worships at the alter of Steve.

George Bush says anyone who criticizes America isn't patriotic.

Both are very lazy rational.

[TBaggins]

Anyone who doesn't criticize Apple automatically worships at the alter of Steve.


Not everyone. But many, yes.

And did you ever stop to think that criticism of Apple, where warranted, actually makes Apple STRONGER, not weaker?

To use the Bush argument you just referenced, the current administration's major problem is that they never listened to criticism, only to one another. And look where it got them. :(


...

[TBaggins]

I have some errands to run. Teno, talk to the hand 'til I get back. :D

...

[crackbook]

Huh?? Well so is Porsche, Bentley and Aston Martin...... You have to pay for premium brands and technology. You can always drive a Honda. Solution. Make more money.
sorry but if a porsche or aston martin had a slower , less economical engine, missing plugs and you had to pay 4 times retail to upgrade a tiny petrol tank do you still think it would be a 'premium' product.

solution...don't be such a c*ck

[bobborries]

http://idisk.mac.com/bobborries/Public/RedesignediBooks.jpg

[TenoBell]

Not everyone. But many, yes.

And did you ever stop to think that criticism of Apple, where warranted, actually makes Apple STRONGER, not weaker?

To use the Bush argument you just referenced, the current administration's major problem is that they never listened to criticism, only to one another. And look where it got them. :(


...

Apple isn't operating in a vacuum. Every computer manufacturer has to make compromises in one way or another.

I'm not saying Apple is perfect. They certainly like to take risks. But I think people are having emotional reaction more than looking at the reality of the market and how Apple has increased sales.

Of course its always possible the gamble won't work. We will have to see.

[steve666]

Amen to that. You can buy a PC laptop with 17 inch screen for less than the cheapest macbook, why can't apple offer budget versions of the different screen sizes?



.

I just sent the complaint to Apple-
Need a larger consumer laptop and give us the option of no glossy screens.

[shanmugam]

damn, when apple going to release AFFORDABLE 15" notebook

you can call it pro or what ever you want

damn seriously where is the 15" MacBook?

[TenoBell]

I think apple has actually overdone it this time. the new macbook is the same price as one i bought 14 months ago but has worse specs. Its nice they spent so much time and money on making it look pretty, its what defines apple, but you can't compensate by downgrading the actual COMPUTER part. what happened to moores law? not for apple - who wants a sh*tty 160GB hard drive? the seagate 320gb drives that the earlier version came with are about US$50 retail but apple wants 4 times that just to upgrade the drive. Anyone really care about the graphics card on a 13 inch screen? who runs graphic intensive programmes on a macbook screen? extra costs anyone? you now have to fork out $19 just for the remote? and lets not forget the essential hidden cost of applecare protection... because you know you're going to need it.

Apple was already using Penryn the only thing that changed was the chipset. Their has been no significant change in Intel mobile processors since Penryn. The next big advance will be next year.

The previous MacBook offered a maximum 250GB HDD. The MacBook Pro offered 320GB HDD for $50 upgrade not the MacBook. Now the MB also offers a 128GB SDD.

Yes people do care about the graphics card. That was one of the main complaints of the MacBook.

I wouldn't buy anyones notebook without the extended warranty. Its not a hidden cost. You get it or you don't.

[shanmugam]

People,

I'm new, long time mac user, but have been reading for awhile. If you really want to see your complaints go to good use, and want do see change, then go here (someone else already suggested, but nothing really was done):

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

Make an official complaint, and I can promise you that if enough of us do it, apple will listen - and HOPEFULLY change prices and problems!

Please please please do it! Complain about whatever you want - just make sure you include the crappy prices!

Thanks!

DONE!

Apple is really after $$$, where is the 15" macbook?????

[infinitespecter]

sorry but if a porsche or aston martin had a slower , less economical engine, missing plugs and you had to pay 4 times retail to upgrade a tiny petrol tank do you still think it would be a 'premium' product.

solution...don't be such a c*ck

Do you know anything about cars? Clearly not, because if you did, you would know that the fastest and most reliable cars money can buy right now are badged with Nissan, Dodge, and Chevrolet (the GT-R, the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1) and they cost orders of magnitude less than their equivalent Porsche, Aston Martin, and Ferrari counterparts AND manage to be more economical on fuel and maintenance.

And yet Ferrari still has so many orders that you can't get one new for as many as 4 years and Porsche just had their highest sales year ever with Aston Martin not far behind. The point is, people are willing to pay more for a premium product, performance and features be damned, so if you want to play, you've got to pay. If you can't afford it, get something else or nothing at all. You don't see people whining about not being able to afford an Aston Martin DBS, so why are they whining about this?

[cosmickd]

Yes you can, I just bought a 320 Gb drive for my Black MacBook (with Firewire ;-p ). It works great.

What happened to all the Mac Fanboys? Apple can do no wrong, right?!

That nice new Lenovo IdeaPad S10 at $399 looks better and better everyday. I have a nice powerful Mac desktop at home, don't need an overpriced laptop for traveling...

Anyone want to buy my MacBook? $1300 firm



Does swapping out the hard drive screw up applecare?

[NOFEER]

can't you use a firewire-usb adapter??? or is that intrinsically wrong???
if not then its a big loss, but you all told me to buy triple interface HD and dvd externals
maybe apples solution is for timemachine to be "bootable" using superduper
boy am i glad i got triple iterface peripherals

[bwik]

T-Bag, the track record just does not support the specifics of your claim: "market dislikes today's announcement."

I'm not saying if AAPL introduced a diamond encrusted 5 Ghz, 500GB laptop for $375 that their stock would not skyrocket. It would. And it didn't happen today.

Let's talk when the sales numbers come in, 6 months from now. Whadya bet the market will "like" these units once the revenue numbers come in?

If AAPL miscalculated here, they can redeem with a killer speed-bump 8 months from now. There overall position is good, not shockingly good but not unlike the past either (which has, if we take a moment of quiet reflection, been rather good).

[minderbinder]

Do you know anything about cars? Clearly not, because if you did, you would know that the fastest and most reliable cars money can buy right now are badged with Nissan, Dodge, and Chevrolet (the GT-R, the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1) and they cost orders of magnitude less than their equivalent Porsche, Aston Martin, and Ferrari counterparts AND manage to be more economical on fuel and maintenance.

And yet Ferrari still has so many orders that you can't get one new for as many as 4 years and Porsche just had their highest sales year ever with Aston Martin not far behind. The point is, people are willing to pay more for a premium product, performance and features be damned, so if you want to play, you've got to pay. If you can't afford it, get something else or nothing at all. You don't see people whining about not being able to afford an Aston Martin DBS, so why are they whining about this?

The car analogy isn't really that appropriate. With computers there's the hardware and there's the OS. In the case of Apple the hardware is mostly the same as what the competition is selling but you have to get it if you want the OS.

There's nothing stopping apple from releasing great entry level machines and making a ton of sales and profits while they're at it. A cheaper machine running OSX is still going to have the same OS as an expensive one.

Does swapping out the hard drive screw up applecare?

Usually not. And if you're paranoid you can always save the old one to stick back in if it needs warranty work.

[alanpgh@gmail.com]

Everyone,

Please calm down. Let's see what shows up in the local Apple Store on Oct. 15.

I think it will be spectacular in terms of size, less weight, much improved design, graphics chips/speed. better display, improved battery life, etc. The new CPU's and front side bus will likely make a big difference in terms of performance.

I plan to go to the Apple Store tomorrow, and if all is good, I will buy a new 13" Macbook for $1499. at the education price. Do they give you the education price in the retail stores?

Yes, it is about $200. over-priced. They can lower the price in the future. But, I need a Mac laptop now. So, it will probably be the new Macbook for me.

Alan

[crackbook]

Apple was already using Penryn the only thing that changed was the chipset. Their has been no significant change in Intel mobile processors since Penryn. The next big advance will be next year.

The previous MacBook offered a maximum 250GB HDD. The MacBook Pro offered 320GB HDD for $50 upgrade not the MacBook. Now the MB also offers a 128GB SDD.

Yes people do care about the graphics card. That was one of the main complaints of the MacBook.

I wouldn't buy anyones notebook without the extended warranty. Its not a hidden cost. You get it or you don't.
wisecrack my general point was that you get the same computer or worse, for more cost, a year later.

ok sure the maximum offered drive was 250GB but they fit a $50 320GB drive don't they. (not $50 updgrade - $50 retail, so you still have the 250 or 160Gb drive to use as an external)

if i bought a similar spec dell laptop for half the price i wouldn't get an extended warranty because if it died i could buy another one and still not spend as much overall.

[iijuanii]

I NEED TO KNOW!

how significant is the 2.0 to 2.4 GHZ jump.

is it worth that much?
and would i actually see in terms of performance???

[TenoBell]

wisecrack my general point was that you get the same computer or worse, for more cost, a year later.

ok sure the maximum offered drive was 250GB but they fit a $50 320GB drive don't they. (not $50 updgrade - $50 retail, so you still have the 250 or 160Gb drive to use as an external)

if i bought a similar spec dell laptop for half the price i wouldn't get an extended warranty because if it died i could buy another one and still not spend as much overall.

The chipset and RAM are faster. The GPU is 5 times faster. LCD screen. Its not exactly the same computer.

Its true you can get a notebook from Dell at half the cost. Its not true you can get this notebook from Dell at half the cost.

[alanpgh@gmail.com]

The chipset and RAM are faster. The GPU is 5 times faster. LCD screen. Its not exactly the same computer.

Its true you can get a notebook from Dell at half the cost. Its not true you can get this notebook from Dell at half the cost.
Amen, crackbook. Well said!!! Check it out at your local Apple Store before you decide!

[crackbook]

Do you know anything about cars? Clearly not, because if you did, you would know that the fastest and most reliable cars money can buy right now are badged with Nissan, Dodge, and Chevrolet (the GT-R, the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1) and they cost orders of magnitude less than their equivalent Porsche, Aston Martin, and Ferrari counterparts AND manage to be more economical on fuel and maintenance.

And yet Ferrari still has so many orders that you can't get one new for as many as 4 years and Porsche just had their highest sales year ever with Aston Martin not far behind. The point is, people are willing to pay more for a premium product, performance and features be damned, so if you want to play, you've got to pay. If you can't afford it, get something else or nothing at all. You don't see people whining about not being able to afford an Aston Martin DBS, so why are they whining about this?
ok good point about the cars, but the 'premium' cars you talk about still have very good specs, these macbooks have entry level specs.

sorry dont know what you're talking about with the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1, the rest of the world doesn't import sh*tbox american tractors.

[mcl116]

I need suggestions. I've been waiting for 6 months for this update. To me it seems the better value would be to get the "blackbook" from the last line of macbooks for cheaper. Faster processor, more space on the HD, FW ports and for cheaper. Or should I go with the new 13" for $1249 (with educational discount)? I'd also probably upgrade to the 250GB for another $100. Processor speed is negligible for the most part correct? Thoughts? I 100% need a new laptop ASAP though. Please help here!! I am so mad at apple. I sent a complaint on the feedback. Please anybody that thinks screw that I'm just 1 more person it won't make a difference, it takes seconds! We can get a change if we all say something! Apple will open its eyes eventually!

[alanpgh@gmail.com]

I would not buy the black MacBook over the new one for $100. savings.
New one will be faster due to graphics chip set, penryn CPU, front side buss speed, nicer design and LED-backlit display, 1pound lighter, probably longer battery life, and more.

Look at it in an Apple Store tomorrow.

Good Luck!

[Archipellago]

suddenly my Vista ultimate rig dual boot with Ubuntu doesn't look too bad.

Thanks for making my mind up Apple, I'll spend the money on something else...

[TenoBell]

ok good point about the cars, but the 'premium' cars you talk about still have very good specs, these macbooks have entry level specs.

This is not true. You people need to stop spreading false information. Dell uses the same CPU chips the MacBook is using in its $1000+ notebooks. No notebook under $1000 is using the Macbook chipset or GPU.

A 1066MHz Bus, DDR 3 RAM, 1280x800 LED screen are not entry level.

[TenoBell]

I need suggestions. I've been waiting for 6 months for this update. To me it seems the better value would be to get the "blackbook" from the last line of macbooks for cheaper. Faster processor, more space on the HD, FW ports and for cheaper. Or should I go with the new 13" for $1249 (with educational discount)? I'd also probably upgrade to the 250GB for another $100. Processor speed is negligible for the most part correct? Thoughts? I 100% need a new laptop ASAP though. Please help here!! I am so mad at apple. I sent a complaint on the feedback. Please anybody that thinks screw that I'm just 1 more person it won't make a difference, it takes seconds! We can get a change if we all say something! Apple will open its eyes eventually!

Depends on what you want most, both are fine machines. Overall the new MacBook will be a faster system. The CPU doesn't matter that much.

[applebook]

The low-end new macbook (or the middle range macbook now) has a 2.0ghz processor for $1350 or so. The OLD mid-range macbook had a 2.4ghz processor for $1250. His statement is therefore completely correct. What exactly are YOU referring to?

Um, read his comments again and then read mine. He clearly is referring to the NEW MB, not the plastic one.

As for a lower clock speed, we all know (well, those of us who aren't completely ignorant) that the Centrino 2 1066 2GHz is faster than the older Santa Rosa at slightly high clock speeds.

[applebook]

it's kind of the same C2D processor. So it's a downgrade. No matter if it got a faster graphics chip.

First processor downgrade in history

No, it is not the "same C2D processor." Check again.

[crackbook]

cry about it, i'm just winding you up.

[applebook]

I don't understand why BMW doesn't just use Kia components to become more cost competitive. BMW would be way cheaper if they used flimsy, outdated parts and ugly designs. Why don't we also fire BMW's management. Who cares if they are profitable, you and I know better. We can easily outsmart the management of BMW and Apple. Shall we start tomorrow? :err::err::err::err::err:

So your sarcasm is to indicate your belief that OS X computing should be a luxury and not just for practicality? :rolleyes:

[applebook]

Of course it is wider, It's using a 13" screen. I said that this is the most complete successor to the 12" Powerbook Apple has made so far. The old MacBooks were larger and heavier with no real graphics card and the Air is positioned for a different market. This is aluminum with a discreet graphics card (albeit with shared memory) and it weighs well under 5lbs. It doesn't have an expresscard slot, but neither did the 12" Powerbook. Until today, I was prepared to go out and buy a Sony 13" notebook because nothing Apple made appealed to me. This does virtually everything I want (well, I wanted BluRay, but I can wait for that) at over a grand less.


The new MB is certainly much more enticing than Sony SZ models and CHEAPER too. Some people (not you, obviously) don't seem to notice this and want to compare cheaply made 15" Acer laptops to the new MB (completely absurd comparison).

My statement about the 12" PowerBook is in reference to those who desire its size. The 12" never had a backlit keyboard, and its GPU was nothing special. In fact, for some things, even the X3100 on the old MacBook is superior.

[iLad]

the missing firewire port is really annoying. it's not just because of cameras..

there are a ton of djs, electronic musicians that use a macbook because of it's size. infact i think that almost all acts that I've seen in the last 3 years had one on stage, but without firewire you can't connect most external soundcards (which you need for djing and performing).

It's really weird that I can't get a mac now. The Pro is too big for my needs and the without firewire I just can't connect my soundcard.


very weird move apple... and I've sort of already gotten over the glossy screen issue

Yeah, it was dumb move to leave out firewire. I too need small form factor and would have liked the assurance of firewire. Apple is smoking bad weed these days with all their product decisions. So really what is the point of the macbook air apart from using it to be a snob? If it were smaller like 8-10 inch screen, i'd get it it would be the awsomest netbook. Speaking of which steve thinks netbook is a fad, Blu-ray is a bag of hurt, HDMI does not support HD resolution (hello its the connector of choice for HD) and tablets are not on their mind. I'm not buying a new mac until they add blu-ray. Was hoping for a netbook guess i'm going to have to hackintosh it. With the ipod touch/iphone they should have BT stereo headphone support, support for their apple radio remote and cut and paste by now. What's with that Nike crap?

With no HDMI, means a mac mini media server is out. Their implementation of DVI is also not standard so trying to connect a mac mini to an AVR with HDMI inputs (using an adapter) does not work without moding the cable. It works as a direct connection to a TV but for some reason does not work through an AVR/Pre/Pro like the integra 9.9.

Also there is no displayport to composite cable which is the first time they don't have one. This is an important cable for me as i use it to hook the laptop to the TV in the hotel room when i travel. This way i can watch my shows or movies or listen to music using the in room tv. I wonder if i connected a DP to DVI adapter to a DVI to composite adapter if it would work.

Also what with silver? Its such a distracting color. Which is why all good tv's use black. Compare it on an silver and black ipod. You focus more on the subject matter then the screen. They tried surrounding the screen with a black border but its still distracting. Silver is the new beige. I would have preferred black aluminum. or better yet black carbon fiber. PCs are starting to get really fashionable. At this point i might even consider a Voodoo Envy 133 and hackintosh it.

Steve said that this would be the best year ever, its so far has been the worst. I've been a fanboy for 25 years but nothing apple has put out in the last 2 years compels me to spend my money. Its all half baked or genius but doesn't live up its its potential.

I wonder what lame, craptacular or half baked product they will announce at Macworld in Jan. Hell has frozen over for me when i say Apple really disgusts me at this point.

[applebook]

Imagine how well these new MB's would have sold if they had added an expresscard slot (so we could get firewire, eSata, etc..) or just kept a firewire port AND also started at $999.

It has nothing to do with cost, if other companies can include expresscard and firewire in laptops for $599, Apple could at $999. Hell, even at $1299 that would have at least been worth it. Apple really screwed the pooch with this one.

Please send comments to http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html and let them know just how dissapointed we are.

Actually, if complainers like you would just do some research, you would notice that there is no 13" notebook on the market with the MB's features (non-plastic, el cheapo case) and specs for anywhere near $599. You are comparing Turion/Pentium 4 Dual-Core/Old 667MHz bus Core 2 CPU 15" PC laptops to the MB, and this is not a fair comparison.

The new MB is in competition with the M1330 XPS and Sony SZ models, and the MB is actually much cheaper than the Sony SZ.

[applebook]

This is not true. You people need to stop spreading false information. Dell uses the same CPU chips the MacBook is using in its $1000+ notebooks. No notebook under $1000 is using the Macbook chipset or GPU.

A 1066MHz Bus, DDR 3 RAM, 1280x800 LED screen are not entry level.

Thanks, TenoBell. It's nice to see some posters who actually are aware of the facts and don't just make them up.

People, stop trying to compare 15-16-17 inch PC notebooks priced at $600 with the 13" MB. There is no comparison. Aside from the LED screen (and its size), the CPUs are not the same, nor are the GPUs, chipsets, features, and most importantly, the OS!

I'm not being an Apple fanboy. These are just the facts. Compare apples to apples (sorry for the pun), not apples to oranges.

I do agree with some of the complaints about Apple's going too far high-end. Apple should have released a "lesser" version of the new MB for $1000-11000.

[palegolas]

I've thought about this FireWire issue, and come up with a couple of sane explanation on WHYYY THE H@LL FireWire is left out on the consumer notebook.

- Apple has recognized that users with FireWire peripherals are users that will more likely spend more money on their computer. All FireWire peripherals cost a little more than its USB counterpart. So they want us to buy the premium product, so that they can sell the consumer product at a lower price to even more people, and the pro model to even more people, and earn a bigger buck all together.

- Apple marketed the FireWire for consumers in the beginning of the DV camera era. Now they realized that these new video cameras coming up all shoot on SD cards in h264. So future consumers don't need FireWire anymore for video, which was probably the number one use of FireWire amongst consumers (I'm just guessing here.)
(Odd in this context though is that you can buy the cheapest (old design) MacBook in plastic white for $999, and it includes FireWire...)

I would have considered both the Air and the MacBook had they sported FireWire. Now I'm left with only one choice, MacBook Pro. Apple simply tells me what to do, and I don't get to make the choice myself. I don't like it. (And no, the white plastic MacBook isn't an option.)

The new laptops look smashing though 8-)

[TenoBell]

My statement about the 12" PowerBook is in reference to those who desire its size. The 12" never had a backlit keyboard, and its GPU was nothing special. In fact, for some things, even the X3100 on the old MacBook is superior.

Yes the 12" PB was essentially an aluminum clad iBook,

[TenoBell]

I've thought about this FireWire issue, and come up with a couple of sane explanation on WHYYY THE H@LL FireWire is left out on the consumer notebook.


Ten years ago when Intel refused to support FireWire in its chipsets, that pretty much put FireWire on the path to a slow death.

50% of new Mac buyers are coming from the PC. They are mostly buying the MacBook. The overwhelming majority of these people have never used FireWire and will never make common use of it.

[applebook]

Yes the 12" PB was essentially an aluminum clad iBook,

At the time, I chose the 12" PB because of its DVI. Its slightly smaller size and aluminum case were bonuses over the iBook, but I personally needed DVI.

[pilottage]

Do you have some fire for my Motu V4HD? It works perfectly in DVCProHD connected to my Black MacBook and I am effectively editing and earning money this way.

And there is no way I will get an overpriced MBP... Because I have still around 2 Dual G4 full of SCSI Disks and RAID ARRAYS, one 4gigs MacBook Black, and one 10gigs Octocore + FW800 Motu V4HD connected in HDSDI to a JVC Vérité DT24-L3D Broadcast LCD Monitor.

Patrick from Paris - No Firewire = No Sale = Pas de Vente

Au revoir.

[applebook]

And there is no way I will get an overpriced MBP... Because I have still around 2 Dual G4 full of SCSI Disks and RAID ARRAYS, one 4gigs MacBook Black, and one 10gigs Octocore + FW800 Motu V4HD connected in HDSDI to a JVC Vérité DT24-L3D Broadcast LCD Monitor

Au revoir.

You have a recent enough MacBook that there is not much reason for you to get a new one. Just because a new notebook has been released, it doesn't mean that you have to buy one.

[hillstones]

Ten years ago when Intel refused to support FireWire in its chipsets, that pretty much put FireWire on the path to a slow death.

50% of new Mac buyers are coming from the PC. They are mostly buying the MacBook. The overwhelming majority of these people have never used FireWire and will never make common use of it.

So you are saying that PC users have never had any interest in a MinDV camera??? Families that have a MiniDV camera that use Windows Movie Maker have never made common use of FireWire? MiniDV cameras don't use USB on a PC for transferring video, they use FIREWIRE, even on a PC! Sorry, your comment is pointless about the lack of FireWire.

So Apple will continue to advertise iLIfe for the consumer and continue to advertise the ease of use with iMovie and video editing. So when the consumer asks, can I connect my MiniDV camera to this fine consumer-level MacBook? Uh, No, sorry. You have to spend $500 to $1000 more for our MacBook Pro model if you want to use it for iMovie. But I thought iLife was for the consumer? Now the consumer model no longer supports the features of iLife. Smooth move Apple. This bonehead move is as retarded as calling a Power Mac G4 tower "Digital Audio" and removing the Audio In port!!!

[abirozy]

Hello

I have been patiently waiting for the new macs to come out and have a few questions and observations. I am tentatively planning on buying the 2.4 MB and upgrading the memory to 4 GB.

1) The new MB's state they have 3mb l2 cache and the MBA has 6mb l2 cache. How does the 3 MB L2 compare to the old MB's and how much of a performance difference will the 3MB L2 make compared to the 6MB L2 on the air?

2) I believe it is $135 (educational price) to upgrade the memory to 4GB. Is it cheaper and easier to do this through a place like macmall or is worth just getting it online from Apple directly?

3) Any thoughts on apple care? Is it worth the $185.00 you are charged?

Thanks

[alanpgh@gmail.com]

Actually, if complainers like you would just do some research, you would notice that there is no 13" notebook on the market with the MB's features (non-plastic, el cheapo case) and specs for anywhere near $599. You are comparing Turion/Pentium 4 Dual-Core/Old 667MHz bus Core 2 CPU 15" PC laptops to the MB, and this is not a fair comparison.

The new MB is in competition with the M1330 XPS and Sony SZ models, and the MB is actually much cheaper than the Sony SZ.


gwmac and others are correct. If you compare apples to apples, the new 13" Macbook is a bargain. And, don't forget that with the high-end PC notebooks, you also need to add a significant additional cost for software.

[edmaster]

Hey Everyone...

I've been reading you guys for the past few months preparing for a MB purchase. Now that they're out, I need your advice. Here's my situation. I'm a high school teacher. I have a late 2007 Intel iMac at home. I use iWeb, iMovie, GarageBand, and Keynote all the time to design presentations and podcasts for class in addition to the normal surfing and e-mail that I could do on any computer. I do some personal video editing and I do like to multi-task using Spaces so I've usually got at least iChat, Mail, Firefox, and one other application open at once. I love OSX and my iMac but have determined I need the portability to really get optimum benefit of using this stuff in class. I also have a 1TB external at home. So HD space in a notebook really isn't an issue, and neither is firewire.

So the question is... is there any real reason other than the cosmetic upgrades that I should spend $300 extra for the MB or should I just go for the $949 base model and live with the whiteness and slightly outdatedness? You guys seem to know the hardware of these machines better than I do so what do you think?

Thanks!

[SpamSandwich]

Or to drive people away from the platform altogether.
As someone else here already pointed out, nearly all of the other notebook manufacturers are including FireWire as standard on their new models. Apple , in their infinite wisdom, takes it out! Utterly insane!

Apple R&D has F****d up big time with this and Jobs is a fool to let this happen. Something like omitting a FireWire port costing a couple of bucks is gonna cost Apple dearly in sales. I had been geared up to buy a new MacBook but now I will certainly pass on this ornamental piece of crap. Too expensive to go the Pro option. Man, this sucks!

For "new" Apple computer users without many peripherals, they will never notice the difference. For the average Apple fanboy, this is yet another in a long line of head butts. Apple's drive to future tech leaves everyone who bought into their last batch of products holding the bag. Steve has developed myopia in addition to his other health problems.

[jetlaw]

Well, I hate to go against the grain here, but I am actually excited about the new Macbook. I can see why people are unhappy about the loss of firewire, but fortunately for me, I don't need it. I used to have a 15.4" MBP, but sold it mainly because I wanted a machine with a smaller footprint. The MBA is too small and anemic for my photography work, which only left the standard Macbook. I honestly miss the backlit keyboard and the LED backlight, and am happy to have access to those again in a 13" machine. I have had trouble with pitting in the past with metal Macs, so I hope that is not an issue with the new machine.

I just ordered the 2.4Ghz model w/ 4GB RAM and the 128GB SSD. Although it won't be a portable movie theater like my current 250GB 2.0Ghz Macbook, I think it will be the perfect machine for my professional life and for my photography.

While I understand and agree with what most people have said about the reception this machine is likely to have given the state of the economy, I also think that new tech offering need to be innovative, as a "Black Sunday Edition" Mac is going to be ignored, as those wishing to hold onto their dollars will just keep using what they have. If any choice that Apple made leaves me with a confused look on my face it is the choice to abandon FW on the Macbook, as they are literally leaving a part of the potential upgrade population incapable of using the new machine. Especially in a unit without an ExpressCard slot, I think it is a mistake!

[c.dub]

Does anyone know what model of Intel processors are in the new MacBooks?

I would like to compare the 2.0gHz to the 2.4gHz.

[SpamSandwich]

Sigh... don't know why you keep on minimizing this... incorrectly too. :(

AAPL closed down 5.60% today. The market as a whole closed down 0.82%. The difference was close to 5%... not "3%"... and not a "couple of points". Another way to look at it is that AAPL dropped almost seven times more than the market as a whole, percentage-wise.

So, let's just face it, the market did not like what they heard.

AAPL always drops the day of an announcement. Always.

[TenoBell]

So you are saying that PC users have never had any interest in a MinDV camera??? Families that have a MiniDV camera that use Windows Movie Maker have never made common use of FireWire? MiniDV cameras don't use USB on a PC for transferring video, they use FIREWIRE, even on a PC! Sorry, your comment is pointless about the lack of FireWire.


Panasonic HD cameras that use USB ports (http://www2.panasonic.com/consumer-electronics/shop/Cameras-Camcorders/Camcorders/Hi-Def-Camcorders.list.75053_11002_7000000000000005702)

JVC HD cameras that use USB ports (http://camcorder.jvc.com/product.jsp?productId=PRD1208000&pathId=141)

Canon HD cameras that use USB ports (http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=173)

[backtomac]

Hey Everyone...

I've been reading you guys for the past few months preparing for a MB purchase. Now that they're out, I need your advice. Here's my situation. I'm a high school teacher. I have a late 2007 Intel iMac at home. I use iWeb, iMovie, GarageBand, and Keynote all the time to design presentations and podcasts for class in addition to the normal surfing and e-mail that I could do on any computer. I do some personal video editing and I do like to multi-task using Spaces so I've usually got at least iChat, Mail, Firefox, and one other application open at once. I love OSX and my iMac but have determined I need the portability to really get optimum benefit of using this stuff in class. I also have a 1TB external at home. So HD space in a notebook really isn't an issue, and neither is firewire.

So the question is... is there any real reason other than the cosmetic upgrades that I should spend $300 extra for the MB or should I just go for the $949 base model and live with the whiteness and slightly outdatedness? You guys seem to know the hardware of these machines better than I do so what do you think?

Thanks!

I would look at a refurb.

Fast MBPs can be had for less than the new MBs. The new MBs have a nice enclosure but are a weak value IMO.

[applebook]

Hey Everyone...

I've been reading you guys for the past few months preparing for a MB purchase. Now that they're out, I need your advice. Here's my situation. I'm a high school teacher. I have a late 2007 Intel iMac at home. I use iWeb, iMovie, GarageBand, and Keynote all the time to design presentations and podcasts for class in addition to the normal surfing and e-mail that I could do on any computer. I do some personal video editing and I do like to multi-task using Spaces so I've usually got at least iChat, Mail, Firefox, and one other application open at once. I love OSX and my iMac but have determined I need the portability to really get optimum benefit of using this stuff in class. I also have a 1TB external at home. So HD space in a notebook really isn't an issue, and neither is firewire.

So the question is... is there any real reason other than the cosmetic upgrades that I should spend $300 extra for the MB or should I just go for the $949 base model and live with the whiteness and slightly outdatedness? You guys seem to know the hardware of these machines better than I do so what do you think?

Thanks!

Hi, Ed, you sound like the perfect candidate for the new MB. IMO, you should get the new MB over the white because of (1) the design (2) the LED display (MUCH better than the old one) (3) CPU and GPU (4) and backlit keyboard.

Everything else is gravy :smokey:

[applebook]

Steve has developed myopia in addition to his other health problems.

That is a completely unnecessary and lowly cheap-shot. Joking about a person's health is never cool, even in cases when the individual has brought it on himself/herself --and in this case, Jobs didn't do blatant things to deserve poor health.

[TenoBell]

Hey Everyone...

I've been reading you guys for the past few months preparing for a MB purchase. Now that they're out, I need your advice. Here's my situation. I'm a high school teacher. I have a late 2007 Intel iMac at home. I use iWeb, iMovie, GarageBand, and Keynote all the time to design presentations and podcasts for class in addition to the normal surfing and e-mail that I could do on any computer. I do some personal video editing and I do like to multi-task using Spaces so I've usually got at least iChat, Mail, Firefox, and one other application open at once. I love OSX and my iMac but have determined I need the portability to really get optimum benefit of using this stuff in class. I also have a 1TB external at home. So HD space in a notebook really isn't an issue, and neither is firewire.

So the question is... is there any real reason other than the cosmetic upgrades that I should spend $300 extra for the MB or should I just go for the $949 base model and live with the whiteness and slightly outdatedness? You guys seem to know the hardware of these machines better than I do so what do you think?

Thanks!

The new MacBook is more than a cosmetic upgrade. It uses a chipset that is twice as fast as the old. Faster RAM which will improve system responsiveness.

The graphics card is 5 times faster and will be a significant improvement for iLife. The graphics card will also play a more important role in Apples next OS update.

[applebook]

Does anyone know what model of Intel processors are in the new MacBooks?

I would like to compare the 2.0gHz to the 2.4gHz.

Yo, I believe that these are the bad boys in the new MB:

2.4: http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB3S
2.0: http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53

P.S. The 2.4 should be much faster. Unlike in times past, when Apple's top-end models did not justify their price premiums, in this case, the increase is substantial :smokey:

[SpamSandwich]

People,

I'm new, long time mac user, but have been reading for awhile. If you really want to see your complaints go to good use, and want do see change, then go here (someone else already suggested, but nothing really was done):

http://www.apple.com/feedback/macbook.html

Make an official complaint, and I can promise you that if enough of us do it, apple will listen - and HOPEFULLY change prices and problems!

Please please please do it! Complain about whatever you want - just make sure you include the crappy prices!

Thanks!

I just let them have an earful. This decision is completely foolish and will cost Apple dearly in sales for entry-level computers. Un-frickin'-believable!

[edmaster]

Interesting advice so far... keep it coming.

Anyone else think the refurb Pro is a good idea at this point? Price points are similar to the new mid-range MBs.

[TenoBell]

I just let them have an earful. This decision is completely foolish and will cost Apple dearly in sales for entry-level computers. Un-frickin'-believable!

Well when Apple abandoned floppy disks and P2 ports. People said they were crazy. History repeats itself.

[c.dub]

Yo, I believe that these are the bad boys in the new MB:

2.4: http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB3S
2.0: http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLB53

P.S. The 2.4 should be much faster. Unlike in times past, when Apple's top-end models did not justify their price premiums, in this case, the increase is substantial :smokey:

Thank you very much, this does seem to be correct. Cheers!

[lugesm]

These new Apple laptops do look really sexy, and after seeing the vid on Apple's site, I'm conifdent they just might be the best notebooks in the world, but this NOT IN ANY WAY what the computer market needs right now. WHY doesn't Apple introduce a cheaper model to gain market share? Do they want to go all elitist and snobby?

Every day . . . I see listings of high quality Windows machines on the Internet (Dell, Sony, HP) for significantly less money. And, these are not wimp machines; they are pretty well full-featured.

I know, I know; they are not Macs . . . . but they are fully functional tools for students who cannot afford to shell out an extra $300 - $600 for a Macintosh. I think Apple has missed an opportunity to tap into this growing (student) market and convert those young people who will be buying computers for many, many years.

I love my Mac, but . . . . . . just thinking.

[Cicero]

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Thank you all for the most entertaining B***h fest I have seen since the iPod mini came out.

Please continue.........

[applebook]

Interesting advice so far... keep it coming.

Anyone else think the refurb Pro is a good idea at this point? Price points are similar to the new mid-range MBs.

I personally am sticking to my MBP because I don't mind the slightly larger size, prefer the keyboard, the higher resolution LCD, and like the much faster 8600GT over the 9400M. These are my justifications. If your demands are different, then I see little reason for you not to get the new MB. :smokey:

[TBell]

Why would Apple introduce a lower cost model when it continues to gain market share quicker then anybody else? Unlike the companies offering lower cost models, Apple is actually making money off it's machines. Companies like Dell rely on 1) all the crap that comes pre-installed, or 2) people upgrading to make money. Apple is very competitive for what it offers.

These new Apple laptops do look really sexy, and after seeing the vid on Apple's site, I'm conifdent they just might be the best notebooks in the world, but this NOT IN ANY WAY what the computer market needs right now. WHY doesn't Apple introduce a cheaper model to gain market share? Do they want to go all elitist and snobby?

[trboyden]

Does swapping out the hard drive screw up applecare?

Yeah it does, but if you swap back in the original, they won't know. I had to do that with the memory I added when my screen died two weeks after I bought mine.

[ICD-EVIL]

Do you know anything about cars? Clearly not, because if you did, you would know that the fastest and most reliable cars money can buy right now are badged with Nissan, Dodge, and Chevrolet (the GT-R, the Viper ACR and the Corvette ZR-1) and they cost orders of magnitude less than their equivalent Porsche, Aston Martin, and Ferrari counterparts AND manage to be more economical on fuel and maintenance.

And yet Ferrari still has so many orders that you can't get one new for as many as 4 years and Porsche just had their highest sales year ever with Aston Martin not far behind. The point is, people are willing to pay more for a premium product, performance and features be damned, so if you want to play, you've got to pay. If you can't afford it, get something else or nothing at all. You don't see people whining about not being able to afford an Aston Martin DBS, so why are they whining about this?

People don't whine about that because there are so many other choices that do the exact same thing and look just as good for less.

Apple is the sole manufacturer of computers that legitimately run OSX and when they ignore a portion of their consumer base those people are essentially left out with no alternative. That's why people are angry.

[TBell]

I love comments like these. Instead of telling us you see lower cost machines, why don't you provide us a link to such a machine? In my experience, every time people list these types of things, the machines are always more or about the same when they are comparatively configured.

Every day . . . I see listings of high quality Windows machines on the Internet (Dell, Sony, HP) for significantly less money. And, these are not wimp machines; they are pretty well full-featured.

I know, I know; they are not Macs . . . . but they are fully functional tools for students who cannot afford to shell out an extra $300 - $600 for a Macintosh. I think Apple has missed an opportunity to tap into this growing (student) market and convert those young people who will be buying computers for many, many years.

I love my Mac, but . . . . . . just thinking.

[ALBIM]

I'm using an ancient iBook G4 Mac, and I STILL don't want to upgrade to the new MacBooks. $1299 is just too much. Try again Apple.

[TBell]

Amen. Somebody finally talking sense. The comparisons are real easy to do by going to Dell or HP's site.

This is not true. You people need to stop spreading false information. Dell uses the same CPU chips the MacBook is using in its $1000+ notebooks. No notebook under $1000 is using the Macbook chipset or GPU.

A 1066MHz Bus, DDR 3 RAM, 1280x800 LED screen are not entry level.