Mac touch FTW!!

[Ireland]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/2978819516_ab6a30db0a_o.png

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2977963167_3ab11a1124_o.png

[Phong]

Before I simply thought the iPod Touch was a superior product to this mythical giant, but looking at them side-by-side, now I know it for sure and think it's plainly obvious. That thing on the right looks big and clunky, underpowered, and tempting to throw as a frisbee.

Written on an iPod Touch.

[THT]

I'm nonplussed. I think I'd prefer a 720x480 4.5" iPhone HD.

[MacRonin]

Before I simply thought the iPod Touch was a superior product to this mythical giant, but looking at them side-by-side, now I know it for sure and think it's plainly obvious. That thing on the right looks big and clunky, underpowered, and tempting to throw as a frisbee.

Written on an iPod Touch.

So your unique version of x-ray vision allows you to see into a picture of a hypothetical product and discern the components within...?!?

Focus here people, the MacTouch is NOT a handheld, it is a SLATE TABLET...

Think netbook/laptop, but without the keyboard or the folding in half...

I for one would LOVE the above pictured MacTouch. Give it a next-gen dual-core Atom CPU, 2GB of RAM, a 64GB SSD & a nVidea 9400M GPU; make BlueTooth, WiFi, 3G & GPS standard.

This would be a killer in the educational markets. No more heavy textbooks to lug around!

This would be perfect for ANYONE who would like to actually get work done on a tablet. And before the naysayers start saying nay; there isn't ANYONE who is going to really want to work on iWork files on an iPhone/iPod Touch anytime soon... That would just be madness. But on a spacious 10" slate tablet, awesome!

This would be perfect for sitting on the coffee table, as a digital picture frame. But it would also do slideshows with transitions & show video clips. It could be picked up to check the WiFi security camera at the front door. It could be used to change the lighting scheme in the house. It could be used to remote control the Apple media center.

I could go on...

And please, PLEASE! stop telling me how an iPhone can do (most of) these things just as well! I want a larger screen damnit! I want to keep from straining my older eyes any more than I have to. I want to surf the net or read email without accidentaly clicking on something I did not intend to. I do NOT want to feel like Gulliver trying to use a Lilliputian slate tablet!

[SpamSandwich]

Could you mock-up a version that is 8.5"x5.5"? If anything progresses on this front, this would be the next logical size to add to the multi-touch pantheon.

[Ireland]

Could you mock-up a version that is 8.5"x5.5"? If anything progresses on this front, this would be the next logical size to add to the multi-touch pantheon.

I could, but if you take a device like this (with a diagonal display size of 10"), that makes the dimensions of the whole device, right out to the edge of the hardware; 9" across, by just under 7" deep. You'd be surprised that those dimensions give you a 10" display diagonal, including room for a bezel and some chrome trimming within these dimensions. Pretty much a perfect compromise between being just small and light enough to bring most anywhere, but still big enough to "work" on, efficiently.

This device would be everything the Air wants to be, and more.

[ALBIM]

what is the point of this tablet/touch screen idea? Wouldn't everyone rather have a keyboard and a mouse then typing on a touch screen, along with having a 50/50 shot on clicking on the correct item? I just don't understand this.

[Ireland]

what is the point of this tablet/touch screen idea? Wouldn't everyone rather have a keyboard and a mouse then typing on a touch screen, along with having a 50/50 shot on clicking on the correct item? I just don't understand this.

50/50 ?

[Ireland]

/I didn't need this

[MacRonin]

what is the point of this tablet/touch screen idea? Wouldn't everyone rather have a keyboard and a mouse then typing on a touch screen, along with having a 50/50 shot on clicking on the correct item? I just don't understand this.



What is the point of this mouse/graphical user interface idea? Wouldn't everyone rather have a command line and a keyboard then clicking on assorted icons... I just don't understand this.

[ALBIM]

What is the point of this mouse/graphical user interface idea? Wouldn't everyone rather have a command line and a keyboard then clicking on assorted icons... I just don't understand this.

:lol:

[Joe_the_dragon]

So your unique version of x-ray vision allows you to see into a picture of a hypothetical product and discern the components within...?!?

Focus here people, the MacTouch is NOT a handheld, it is a SLATE TABLET...

Think netbook/laptop, but without the keyboard or the folding in half...

I for one would LOVE the above pictured MacTouch. Give it a next-gen dual-core Atom CPU, 2GB of RAM, a 64GB SSD & a nVidea 9400M GPU; make BlueTooth, WiFi, 3G & GPS standard.

This would be a killer in the educational markets. No more heavy textbooks to lug around!

This would be perfect for ANYONE who would like to actually get work done on a tablet. And before the naysayers start saying nay; there isn't ANYONE who is going to really want to work on iWork files on an iPhone/iPod Touch anytime soon... That would just be madness. But on a spacious 10" slate tablet, awesome!

This would be perfect for sitting on the coffee table, as a digital picture frame. But it would also do slideshows with transitions & show video clips. It could be picked up to check the WiFi security camera at the front door. It could be used to change the lighting scheme in the house. It could be used to remote control the Apple media center.

I could go on...

And please, PLEASE! stop telling me how an iPhone can do (most of) these things just as well! I want a larger screen damnit! I want to keep from straining my older eyes any more than I have to. I want to surf the net or read email without accidentaly clicking on something I did not intend to. I do NOT want to feel like Gulliver trying to use a Lilliputian slate tablet!

Drop the 3g so you are not forcing a $30 /m data plan + voice on people with a 2 year att lock in.

[Ireland]

Drop the 3g so you are not forcing a $30 /m data plan + voice on people with a 2 year att lock in.

I disagree. Add the chip (a nominal cost) and offer an optional At&t 12 month data contract. If you don't want to pay the subscription cost, don't. You're not forced to sign any contracts, and there's no carrier lock in on Mac touch, so other phone companies can offer competitive data packages for the device, which will allow Apple to sell the device at full cost, with the added benefit of data contract competition between the companies, which will result in cheaper data deals for the user, and stimulated sales for Apple as a result.

Just because the chip is in there doesn't mean you "have" to use it. But having it there without the need for any add on makes for a compelling argument for signing up for a data contract. For business owners everywhere it would prove very tempting I'd bet. And for teens, and the less well off they'd use the thing over WiFi and get on with it.

[MacRonin]

Drop the 3g so you are not forcing a $30 /m data plan + voice on people with a 2 year att lock in.

If I could make VOIP calls to & from the MacTouch over WiFi & 3G, then I would gladly pay US$30/month!

So add in the Apple stereo BlueTooth headset with microphone for US$129...

[Ireland]

If I could make VOIP calls to & from the MacTouch over WiFi & 3G, then I would gladly pay US$30/month!

So add in the Apple stereo BlueTooth headset with microphone for US$129...

$30? How about $19.99

Apple could go talk to these phones guys and try and get them all to agree on $19.99. So you could pretty much pick the carrier of your choice @ $19.99

That would be sweet. Well I can dream can't I? :D

[MacRonin]

$30? How about $19.99

Apple could go talk to these phones guys and try and get them all to agree on $19.99. So you could pretty much pick the carrier of your choice @ $19.99

That would be sweet. Well I can dream can't I? :D

Or, or!

Apple could REALLY improve the value of MobileMe; keep the price as it is now for a 'start-up fee', and then add in a US$20/month charge for unlimited nationwide VOIP calling.

I guess that would kind of make Apple a MVNO, a Mobile Virtual Network Operator, as has been discussed before the release of the iPhone...

[wizard69]

I'm nonplussed. I think I'd prefer a 720x480 4.5" iPhone HD.

I have to agree that 10" unit is way to big. Like you I'd much prefer a slightly larger IPhone/ Touch device. The simple reason is portability. It is surprising just how useful iPhone can be and frankly it just gets better with each software release.

What is notable is that the device, if it is a Touch, doesn't have to get excessively bigger. Just blow out the screen in width and height. Height of course would increase the devices size in that direction but only by maybe three quarters of an inch. Much of the increase in length could be taken up in the wasted bezel space at each end. Thus you end up with a unit marginally longer.

The thing is a bigger screen offers up a much better user experience.

I also have this idea for a Classic replacement iPod Touch. For much the same reason a larger screen but more so room for more flash.

In each case though portabilty is important, that is where the 10 inched dies a nasty death. I've even contemplated a device slightly smaller than a Steno Pad but the question becomes how do you stuff it into a pocket? Maybe it would be posible if the could do away with the large glass screen. One has to wonder how you would make such large devices durable, a clam shell laptop has a greatvadvantage in that the screen gets some protection.


Dave

[Ireland]

I have to agree that 10" unit is way to big.

Unless you have pockets the size of bread bins, anything bigger than the iPhone won't fit in your pocket. Regular people, consumers, have regular pockets. If it's not going to fit in your pocket you'll need a bag to carry it, and if you can't carry a 9" x 7" x 15 mm device (10" screen) in this bag then it's not a normal bag.

In a normal world, with normal people, with normal bags, this device will pop in a sleeve or bag and go with you wherever you want it to go. And at roughly 2.3 - 2.6 pounds it be light too, with the added bonus of a 10" screen so you can be productive in school, on the couch, at a bar, on the train or almost anywhere.

This device is not meant to be bigger iPhone or iPod touch, but a smaller touchable MacBook (tablet) - if you catch my drift. Desktop, Finder, Spotlight; i.e. a Mac. You'll own both this "and an iPhone", not either or. And like I have been saying for a long time now, this device is meant for (well targeted at) desktop owners. You have a large screened Mac at home (24"), a 10" Mac touch on the move, and a 3.5" iPhone with you at all times. This size of a screen is important, to clearly distinguish it from the iPhone or iPod touch, as to sell it to those product owners/users as not "I don't need it because I have an iPhone" but "I want it because I like my iPhone". It's about keeping the screen big enough to be used for "work", while still being portable and light enough to throw in a pouch, sleeve or bag - to take anywhere.

I can't help but think 10" is the sweet stop for this Mac touch.

Why, what diagonal screen size had you in mind?

[wizard69]

So your unique version of x-ray vision allows you to see into a picture of a hypothetical product and discern the components within...?!?

It is fairly simple to guess at what would go in. If you want all day battery life then it will be underpowered.

Focus here people, the MacTouch is NOT a handheld, it is a SLATE TABLET...

Then please focus a bit more and explain to us what good a slate tablet would be? Really! If it can't be handheld while it is being used it is crap! There is no market for such a device, never has been and never will be.

Think netbook/laptop, but without the keyboard or the folding in half...

Ok I just did and have to ask why? Why no keyboard. Why no protection for the sceen. Why give up the usability especially in a device that big. Why would you want such a device?


I for one would LOVE the above pictured MacTouch. Give it a next-gen dual-core Atom CPU, 2GB of RAM, a 64GB SSD & a nVidea 9400M GPU; make BlueTooth, WiFi, 3G & GPS standard.

You do realize that Atom sucks as a low power processor don't you. Further all the other crap you added sucks even more power. It is simple guy if you want the power of a laptop then buy one.


This would be a killer in the educational markets. No more heavy textbooks to lug around!

We have that today they are called laptops. In anyevent there are advantages to text books. For one they don't have glass screens to break. Further you can swap text books just like wives and girlfriends. Would you really want to swap your precious tablet.

I'm going to suggest that you would likely give it away after attempting to use it for awhile. Of course finding somebody to take it off your hands won't be easy as most people would recognize the usability issues right off the bat.


This would be perfect for ANYONE who would like to actually get work done on a tablet. And before the naysayers start saying nay; there isn't ANYONE who is going to really want to work on iWork files on an iPhone/iPod Touch anytime soon... That would just be madness. But on a spacious 10" slate tablet, awesome!

This would be perfect for sitting on the coffee table, as a digital picture frame. But it would also do slideshows with transitions & show video clips. It could be picked up to check the WiFi security camera at the front door. It could be used to change the lighting scheme in the house. It could be used to remote control the Apple media center.

I could go on..

Thankfully you didn't! You are going to hate this but all of the above can be done on an iPhone which can live in your pocket. Besides if there is somebody at the door I'm going to reach for a shotgun because that video camera and tablet won't do you much good.


And please, PLEASE! stop telling me how an iPhone can do (most of) these things just as well! I want a larger screen damnit!

Whoops already did, but just incase you missed it IPhone can do all of the above!!!! Don't get me wrong I'd love a larger screen also but it still has to fit in a pocket or is other wise reasonable for portable usage. To many 10 inchers in ones pockets leads to unsightly bulges.

I want to keep from straining my older eyes any more than I have to. I want to surf the net or read email without accidentaly clicking on something I did not intend to. I do NOT want to feel like Gulliver trying to use a Lilliputian slate tablet!

I know all about random touches screwing things up but you know I have that issue on my MBP too.

As to text size the iPhone only needs to get slightly larger to deal with that. I do wonder how you expect to be generating all of these letters on a device with no keyboard. It won't be easy.

Dave

[MacRonin]

I have to agree that 10" unit is way to big.

The thing is a bigger screen offers up a much better user experience.

...portabilty is important, that is where the 10 inched dies a nasty death. I've even contemplated a device slightly smaller than a Steno Pad but the question becomes how do you stuff it into a pocket?

I disagree, 10" is indeed the 'sweet spot'. At 10", this device is similar in size to a steno pad or a standard DVD case. I have no problem fitting these items into the back pocket of my jeans, the indise pocket of a jeans jacket or the lower patch pocket of a blazer or lab coat. YMMV...

This device is not meant to be bigger iPhone or iPod touch, but a smaller touchable MacBook (tablet) - if you catch my drift. Desktop, Finder, Spotlight; i.e. a Mac. You'll own both this "and an iPhone", not either or. And like I have been saying for a long time now, this device is meant for (well targeted at) desktop owners. You have a large screened Mac at home (24"), a 10" Mac touch on the move, and a 3.5" iPhone with you at all times.

I actually can see folks moving away from destop machines (professionals & hard-core gamers aside...) and more towards a mobile experience. Those who need the 'power' that a desktop used to provide over a laptop will graviate towards the MacBook Pro models. Many will do with the 'lesser' power of a new MacBook. And a great deal of folks really need nothing more than a netbook version of the new MacBook (which could just as well be a 10" MacTouch).

I would see it more like this (with a bit of reworking on the original concept as presented by Ireland:

You have a Mac mini home server/media center controlling & syncing mobile accounts at home (and the 60" HDTV in the living room is the display for this, with an Apple BlueTooth keyboard & mouse on the coffee table), a 10" Mac touch on the move (you could throw another Apple BlueTooth keyboard/mouse combo into your bag if desired), and an iPhone nano with you at all times.

[wizard69]

Unless you have pockets the size of bread bins, anything bigger than the iPhone won't fit in your pocket. Regular people, consumers, have regular pockets. If it's not going to fit in your pocket you'll need a bag to carry it, and if you can't carry a 9" x 7" x 15 mm device (10" screen) in this bag then it's not a normal bag.

Then you might as well get a traditionally shaped laptop. At least then the screen is protected while in you bag.

As to pockets my little Cambodian friend has pockets that could handle a large iPhone. So my pockets are no problem. I have to wonder what size pockets you have that end up crowded by an iPhone.

In a normal world, with normal people, with normal bags, this device will pop in a sleeve or bag and go with you wherever you want it to go. And at roughly 2.3 - 2.6 pounds it be light too, with the added bonus of a 10" screen so you can be productive in school, on the couch, at a bar, on the train or almost anywhere.

I do the above everyday with my IPhone. Further it is light enough for my pocket. Like wise it is NOT NORMAL for guys to carry around bags!!! It would serve you well not to suggest such again!

The exception to the above is the train ride. The only one I've gotten on was in a Museum. I'm not sure how trains even fit into this discussion.


This device is not meant to be bigger iPhone or iPod touch, but a smaller touchable MacBook (tablet) - if you catch my drift. Desktop, Finder, Spotlight; i.e. a Mac. You'll own both this "and an iPhone", not either or. And like I have been saying for a long time now, this device is meant for (well targeted at) desktop owners. You have a large screened Mac at home (24"), a 10" Mac touch on the move, and a 3.5" iPhone with you at all times. This size of a screen is important, to clearly distinguish it from the iPhone or iPod touch, as to sell it to those product owners/users as not "I don't need it because I have an iPhone" but "I want it because I like my iPhone". It's about keeping the screen big enough to be used for "work", while still being portable and light enough to throw in a pouch, sleeve or bag - to take anywhere.

I don't see how this type of device would sell to an iPhone or Touch user. Especially if such a user where to have at his disposal a slightly larger touch device. Frankly iPhone is one excellent companion to my MBP. A grossly larger device would make no sense at all.

You are right that screen size is important but you are way off as to what is acceptable. Even reverting back to your bag argument, if look at what woman carry around you will see there is no space for you device. Even if there was the oppotunity for breaking the screen is high. There are things in those bags that would hurt a guy much less a tablet.


I can't help but think 10" is the sweet stop for this Mac touch.


I've imagined all sorts of devices in the Touch mold but none of them get that big. I've yet to have seen an argument for such a large device that isn't won by a clamshell laptop with a real keyboard and screen protection.


Why, what diagonal screen size had you in mind?
Frankly I have thought much in terms of diagonal but rather how much bigger can Touch/IPhone become before they are no longer portable. My guess is about a half inch os so in width and an inch or so in length. That inch or so in length could actually result in a much longer screen if some of the useless bezel is done away with. In any event I think it is much more useful to have a longer screen than it is to have higher. It is far better for reading and composing documents.

[Ireland]

Then you might as well get a traditionally shaped laptop. At least then the screen is protected while in you bag.

No, a laptop would be bulkier and heavier, and wouldn't have the 10" multi-touch screen of OS X goodness. And the solution to protecting the screen is a simple matter of being careful, and getting a sleeve with a hard shell on one side, which would no doubt be a very popular case for this product, made by all the usual suspects.

[MacRonin]

It is fairly simple to guess at what would go in. If you want all day battery life then it will be underpowered.

I don't really expect all day battery from ANY mobile computing device.

Then please focus a bit more and explain to us what good a slate tablet would be? Really! If it can't be handheld while it is being used it is crap! There is no market for such a device, never has been and never will be.

Oddly enough, it would be not only as good as an iPhone, but better, since the SCREEN IS LARGER! And by handheld, I mean a class of product the size of the iPhone, designed to be CRADLED IN THE HAND. Of course a 10" MacTouch is going to be a held in your hands while using, we cannot expect it to just levitate in front of us!

As to the market for a 10" MacTouch, just because YOU don't want one does not mean that others don't want one...

Ok I just did and have to ask why? Why no keyboard. Why no protection for the sceen. Why give up the usability especially in a device that big. Why would you want such a device?

Why not?!? I can always toss an Apple BlueTooth keyboard in the bag if I want, or one of those roll-up keyboards, or any other number of compact portable keyboard solutions...

As to why no protection for the screen? The exact same could be said for the iPhone, but it seems to be doing okay so far...

And, again, just because YOU don't want one...

You do realize that Atom sucks as a low power processor don't you. Further all the other crap you added sucks even more power. It is simple guy if you want the power of a laptop then buy one.

You do realize I stated 'next-gen dual-core Atom CPU', right? I don't follow the rumors on everything out there, but I believe the next-gen Atoms are supposed to be more powerful in regards to processing, but have lower power consumption at the same time... As for 'all the other crap', components can be 'turned of' when not needed. This can even be designed into the software. Off when the app that uses it is not running, on when the app that needs it is activated, and in an idle mode when the app using it is up but inactive.

I don't want a desktop replacement, I want a portable device that lets me do everyday computing tasks. Email, Internet, iPhoto, iChat, iTunes, etc.

If I need more power, I would get a MacBook Pro; AND I would probably carry BOTH the MacBook Pro & the 10" MacTouch in my bag.

We have that today they are called laptops. In anyevent there are advantages to text books. For one they don't have glass screens to break. Further you can swap text books just like wives and girlfriends. Would you really want to swap your precious tablet.

Actually, laptops DO have glass screens to break now (new uni-body MacBook/MacBook Pros).

And while YOU may swap wives and girlfriends, I try and be faithful in my relationships... :D

As for the textbooks, why would you want to swap them? Notes scribbled in the margins & highlighting would become digital annotations on the MacTouch, and could be transferred to another copy of the textbook with ease. I won't go into any issues with piracy of digital textbooks, that would be a grey area to be worked out.

I'm going to suggest that you would likely give it away after attempting to use it for awhile. Of course finding somebody to take it off your hands won't be easy as most people would recognize the usability issues right off the bat.

I'm going to suggest WE get a chance to actually USE such a device first, and save our judgements for later...

Thankfully you didn't! You are going to hate this but all of the above can be done on an iPhone which can live in your pocket. Besides if there is somebody at the door I'm going to reach for a shotgun because that video camera and tablet won't do you much good.

See, I DON'T WANT to do it all on an iPhone! I WANT a larger screen!

As for the front door & wireless security camera, I'll grab the shotty AFTER I use the camera to discern if the person there is friend or foe...

And the 1911 is always on the hip anyway, except in the bathroom or at bedtime. Even then it is not very far from hand... I guess that would make the 1911 my GO TO handheld device! :lol:

Remind me to call from the curb (using my iPhone nano, of course...) when I stop by your house!

Long story short, there are indeed a good number of folks who just might want a hypothetical 10" MacTouch slate tablet. YOU don't have to have one if YOU don't want one, but WHY must you insist that no one else should want one either...?!?

[Ireland]

As to why no protection for the screen? The exact same could be said for the iPhone, but it seems to be doing okay so far..

See my comment above Ronin, 3rd party sleeves with a hard shell on one side would be the case of choice for this product, all the guys like Griffin would make them - so no problem there. They would be slim and would and protect the glass display just fine.

[MacRonin]

...it is NOT NORMAL for guys to carry around bags!!! It would serve you well not to suggest such again!

Wow, such a forceful statement. Does the idea of a man carrying a bag awaken your dorment homophobia? Seek help...! ;)

Seriously though, 'a bag' does not automatically denote a purse.

I see men carrying messenger bags, backpacks & single-strap sling bags all the time. I don't think this makes them any lesser of a man...

Realizing that he is a fictional character, are you gonna tell Jack Bauer he is less of a man for toting his bag around all the time...?!?

I could easily fit a 10" MacTouch, a power supply/charger for the MacTouch, a roll-up keyboard, a wireless mouse, a water bottle, a few snacks, a few essential toiletries and a change of clothes (excepting pants, which I could wear again; so that means a clean shirt, socks & underwear) into a bag of that size...

My messenger bag from my college days is huge. I could pack a weekends worth of clothes & toiletries, a 10" MacTouch, a portable keyboard/mouse AND a 15" MacBook Pro in there with no problem. Would it be heavy, yes. But it would NOT be heavier than when it was filled with textbooks...

[MacRonin]

See my comment above Ronin, 3rd party sleeks with a hard shell on one side would be the case of choice for this product, all the guys like Griffin would make them - so no problem there. They would be slim would and protect the glass displays just fine.

This is where I would be willing to accept a convertible netbook/tablet, as oppossed to a 'pure' slate tablet device.

Only the introduction of the uni-body makes me think Apple could design a convertible that would have a bulletproof hinge...

See my rant on subsidized 10" convertible netbook/tablets elswhere in the forums! :D

[vinea]

I used to be a slate fan. I have 3. The bottom line is they can't act as a laptop replacement. Fact is, the iPhone is more useful.

And no, multitouch keyboard does not make up for the lack of a keyboard.

Why? Ergonomics. Lack of tactile feedback. Bad angle for both typing or viewing. Keyboard obscures half the viewing space on your 10" screen.

Far better to have a netbook sized convertible tablet with both multitouch and stylus. Why stylus? So you can draw things instead of fingerpaint. Multitouch on a large 30"+ surface is different from a 10" surface which is different from a iPhone sized surface.

With a netbook sized convertible you get the best of all worlds. Compact size. Physical keyboard so you can TYPE stuff. Flip the screen over and use as a ebook, drawing surface or multitouch surface. Screen is protected when it's closed.

[Ireland]

I used to be a slate fan. I have 3. The bottom line is they can't act as a laptop replacement. Fact is, the iPhone is more useful.

Than...

You don't have a Mac touch :D

[MacRonin]

I used to be a slate fan. I have 3. The bottom line is they can't act as a laptop replacement. Fact is, the iPhone is more useful.

I am gonna go out on a limb here and guess that none of the three are Mac OS X machines...

And no, multitouch keyboard does not make up for the lack of a keyboard.

Why? Ergonomics. Lack of tactile feedback. Bad angle for both typing or viewing. Keyboard obscures half the viewing space on your 10" screen.

Which is why I have always stated that a portable keyboard/mouse combo tossed in the bag is a key accessory...

Far better to have a netbook sized convertible tablet with both multitouch and stylus. Why stylus? So you can draw things instead of fingerpaint. Multitouch on a large 30"+ surface is different from a 10" surface which is different from a iPhone sized surface.

With a netbook sized convertible you get the best of all worlds. Compact size. Physical keyboard so you can TYPE stuff. Flip the screen over and use as a ebook, drawing surface or multitouch surface. Screen is protected when it's closed.

Look at some of the latest threads on netbooks. I have gone on a bit about a convertible netbook/tablet as of late. The only thing I don't like about a convertible is that bloody hinge; frankly, it scares me.

Than...

You don't have a Mac touch :D

There it is. It is NOT in the least bit fair to compare ANY Windows tablet to a Mac OS X tablet, when there hasen't even been an Apple produced Mac OS X tablet yet AT ALL...!!!

[REM#1]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3215/2974734133_a7537f5472_o.png

The size asked for was 8.5X5.5 Their is a great deal of weight and ease of carrying between that and the size shown.

What I would like to see is a device 170mmX105mm (7.1"X4.4") So that it would still fit in my jacket pocket and could easily use as an e-book reader.

[Ireland]

What I would like to see is a device 170mmX105mm (7.1"X4.4") So that it would still fit in my jacket pocket..
Exactly, your jacket pocket. Not everyone else's. Given the choice I'd bet more people would like a 10" display, as opposed to a 6.6" display, like you want.

[REM#1]

Exactly, your jacket pocket. Not everyone else's. Given the choice I'd bet more people would like a 10" display, as opposed to a 6.6" display, like you want.

Most people want conveniece and the ability to replace their phone, iPod, quick camera, and soon their ebook reader (the program that makes the iPhone & iTouch into e-readers has outsold all of the dedicated ereaders by about 5 times)

I believe the 9-10" devices are a different device class.

[vinea]

I am gonna go out on a limb here and guess that none of the three are Mac OS X machines...


One MotionComputing, one ruggedized slate, one older viewsonic.

I've used a Modbook. It was interesting but honestly OneNote is pretty good. There's not much in OSX (Mac not iPhone) that natively lends itself to being a better slate.


Which is why I have always stated that a portable keyboard/mouse combo tossed in the bag is a key accessory...


These slates all have portable keyboard options. The problem is that none are designed to work very well in laptop mode.


Look at some of the latest threads on netbooks. I have gone on a bit about a convertible netbook/tablet as of late. The only thing I don't like about a convertible is that bloody hinge; frankly, it scares me.


I have a convertible Toughbook too. One of my co-workers has a Toshiba convertible. I have an old IBM TransNote as well. Never had a broken hinge. I bet the hinge in the toughbook is stronger than the one in my MBP.


Given I'm willing to take that into the field and not my MBP I say that hinge strength is a non-issue.


There it is. It is NOT in the least bit fair to compare ANY Windows tablet to a Mac OS X tablet, when there hasen't even been an Apple produced Mac OS X tablet yet AT ALL...!!!

The operating system is different but human is not. I have one and a half multi-touch devices as well (A DiamondTouch from Mitsubishi and another that does gestures but is not fully multi-touch). I've used a multitouch keyboard on a FITR multitouch device.

I can see a slate that docks into a laptop base (more batteries, optical and hdd, keyboard base) as a possibility. Or perhaps an iMac like base. But personal experience and observation tells me that a 10" slate is less useful than a 10" convertible.

If you're curious why I have so many machines and such oddball ones at that...I support HCI research.

[Ireland]

Most people want conveniece and the ability to replace their phone, iPod, quick camera, and soon their ebook reader (the program that makes the iPhone & iTouch into e-readers has outsold all of the dedicated ereaders by about 5 times)

I believe the 9-10" devices are a different device class.

Well you got the "different class" part right. Curious how much work you get done on your iPhone? I love mine, but I don't work done on it. It's not powerful enough and its screen is too small - enter Mac touch. Boom! 8-)

[Ireland]

One MotionComputing, one ruggedized slate, one older viewsonic.

I've used a Modbook. It was interesting but honestly OneNote is pretty good. There's not much in OSX (Mac not iPhone) that natively lends itself to being a better slate.

Not yet.

[ksec]

I would also want a slightly larger then iPhone size rather then 10 inch.

However 720 x 480 is not HD. So i dont think iPhone HD 's name is good.

[Ireland]

I would also want a slightly larger then iPhone size rather then 10 inch.

However 720 x 480 is not HD. So i dont think iPhone HD 's name is good.

Considering it won't be a phone that might be an unusual name.

[MacRonin]

...MotionComputing...

That's what they use on Stargate Atlantis.

I've used a Modbook. It was interesting... There's not much in OSX (Mac not iPhone) that natively lends itself to being a better slate.

Not yet.

What Ireland said...

I can see a slate that docks into a laptop base (more batteries, optical and hdd, keyboard base) as a possibility. Or perhaps an iMac like base. But personal experience and observation tells me that a 10" slate is less useful than a 10" convertible.


This was an interesting mock-up...

http://idleparis.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/touch_wireless_base2.jpg

[kim kap sol]

Creating a terrible mockup = easy

Figuring out how the software would work on said crap mockup = very difficult

Looks to me like the Mac touch would need Yet-Another-Version-of-MacOSX. This will never happen. It would require tremendous effort on Apple's part to maintain the iPhone/iPod version, the Mac touch version, and the full-blown version.

I'm not even go over the flaws the Mac touch would exhibit (but the biggest that comes to mind is how someone would type on it without first laying it down on a flat surface.)

Anyway...Ireland and MacRonin have fertile imaginations if slightly disconnected from reality.

[Ireland]

Creating a terrible mockup = easy

Figuring out how the software would work on said crap mockup = very difficult.

Stating the obvious, easy. And thanks dude. While you're busy criticizing my mockup, why not do you yourself.

Looks to me like the Mac touch would need Yet-Another-Version-of-MacOSX. This will never happen. It would require tremendous effort on Apple's part to maintain the iPhone/iPod version, the Mac touch version, and the full-blown version.

Betting man are we? So it would "require tremendous effort" and that's why they aren't going to do it? I think you're wrong about that. It will require a lot of effort, which is why it's taking them years to do. They are doing it though, they are bringing touch to the Mac, in a way that makes sense, like Mac touch. All the best results require the hardest effort. They'll put in this work, and they'll reap the benefits.

[kim kap sol]

Stating the obvious, easy. And thanks dude. While you're busy criticizing my mockup, why not do you yourself.



Betting man are we? So it would "require tremendous effort" and that's why they aren't going to do it? I think you're wrong about that. It will require a lot of effort, which is why it's taking them years to do. They are doing it though, they are bringing touch to the Mac, in a way that makes sense, like Mac touch. All the best results require the hardest effort. They'll put in this work, and they'll reap the benefits.

Well, ever since the iPhone was released, not a whole lot of things have happened on the Mac OS X side of things. Are you secretly wanting to halt Mac OS X development completely? I think so.

[Ireland]

Well, ever since the iPhone was released, not a whole lot of things have happened on the Mac OS X side of things. Are you secretly wanting to halt Mac OS X development completely? I think so.

Yeah, that's why I want.

I want Apple to get into the tyre making business, and then expand over to seed and grain commodities :err:

I wouldn't call adding a Cocoa touch user interface, which has been in development for years, to Snow Leopard; "halting Mac OS X development completely". You Sir are bit of crazy. People are going mobile, and unless Apple evolves (like it is doing) they will lose out. What you see as 'halting Mac OS X development', I see as improving and evolving it. Mac touch FTW!

[MacRonin]

Dude, get real...

Everyone knows the big bucks are in pork belly futures!

[MacRonin]

Well, ever since the iPhone was released, not a whole lot of things have happened on the Mac OS X side of things.

Yeah, Leopard was something any hack could throw together in a few days, and Snow Leopard promises to be more of the same...

:rolleyes:

[Ireland]

Dude, get real...

Everyone knows the big bucks are in pork belly futures!

:lol: Randolph!

[SpamSandwich]

Mac touch FTW!

You better buy that domain ASAP... www.mactouchFTW.com :D

[Ireland]

You better buy that domain ASAP... www.mactouchFTW.com :D

I bought that about 7 months ago. .com .net .org etc. Really.

Mac touch FTW! 8-)

[Corey]

Quote:
Originally Posted by albim
what is the point of this tablet/touch screen idea? Wouldn't everyone rather have a keyboard and a mouse then typing on a touch screen, along with having a 50/50 shot on clicking on the correct item? I just don't understand this.
---

Actually, I didn't get it either until I got an iPod Touch. I find myself using it to surf the net on the couch watching TV and now I am jonesing for a bigger tablet. I also find that I like the touch functions for games.

Since Apple seems to be determined not to provide this product for me, I have been investigating installing OSX on one of these:
http://laptopcom.blogspot.com/2008/06/gigabyte-m912-tablet-pc-mini-laptop.html

Touch is addicting.

[Ireland]

Touch is addicting.

Totally agree with your post, but I hate that word; addicting! :D

[Daniel B]

Ireland,

You get our juices flowing with nice picutures and specs, but then you say that we'll have to wait over a year. That's not nice...

Could you detail why you belive it's more than a year away. Apple had been working with OS X Touch, years before the iPhone came out.

I'm still hoping for MW 09.

/Daniel

[460FILMS]

EXCELLENT!

[Note: I originally wrote this in another thread, then saw this thread and moved it here.]

My stupid $0.04 . . .

Notebooks and laptops simply don't work for a lot of applications. Laptops are being increasingly used in field applications where it's often difficult to find a "lap" on which to perch a "portable" computer. Working in entertainment, I see countless Macbooks on movie sets and on photo shoots, where assistants constantly seem to be doing that stand-while-holding-the-laptop-on-one-palm thing. That's why specialized industrial PDAs seem to have taken over other, more broad-based industries such as delivery services (FedEx, UPS), retailing, warehousing, etc. throughout the last decade. These specialized, industrial-use only PDAs are rugged, small, and most importantly, DON'T NEED A LAP to be able to be used effectively. But, specialized PDAs tend to be expensive, B-to-B product offerings (smaller market), and the available choice of applications for them are either limited (too vertical), or must be custom-coded (expensive). I'm not saying Apple needs to get into the industrial PDA business, but I'm betting there's a sizable market available for a super well-designed tablet-like Mac that you would use more like a clipboard, rather than a napkin.

In my view, the biggest hole in Apple's product line-up is a tablet Mac (or some otherwise, similarly conceived, use-while-standing-up kinda Mac). The iPod touch is a great product, but underpowered, and too small for most industrial applications (not to mention, too fragile). Personally, I've never liked using laptops, and never owned one, but I would consider owning a tablet PC. Although I don't really need a mobile computing platform, some of my friends' businesses certainly do, and would benefit greatly from a tablet kind of Mac. My main ergonomic gripe with the conventional laptop, I guess, is its clamshell design and its attached keyboard. I would much rather have something like Ireland's design, with an optional detachable keyboard. To me, that's head and shoulders more ergonomically and functionally adaptable, especially for work in unusually rugged or highly movable locations. You could set the main "slate" on some convenient surface, when wanting to set up a temporary mobile work area, and If someone inadvertently trips over the keyboard, for another $50, you can replace it.

[kim kap sol]

Yeah, that's why I want.

I want Apple to get into the tyre making business, and then expand over to seed and grain commodities :err:

I wouldn't call adding a Cocoa touch user interface, which has been in development for years, to Snow Leopard; "halting Mac OS X development completely". You Sir are bit of crazy. People are going mobile, and unless Apple evolves (like it is doing) they will lose out. What you see as 'halting Mac OS X development', I see as improving and evolving it. Mac touch FTW!

Ah but people are only going mobile where it makes SENSE. There's the nuance.

You'll have to tell me who would be the Mac touch's primary user. And you'll have to tell me why they'd choose a tablet over a notebook computer. In your mockup, it's clear that the Mac touch doesn't fit in pockets...it will have to be carried around in a bag of some sort...just like a laptop. And the laptop has a fullblown OS, not some retarded gimped OS that is made for tiny screens.

[REM#1]

Ah but people are only going mobile where it makes SENSE. There's the nuance.

You'll have to tell me who would be the Mac touch's primary user. And you'll have to tell me why they'd choose a tablet over a notebook computer. In your mockup, it's clear that the Mac touch doesn't fit in pockets...it will have to be carried around in a bag of some sort...just like a laptop. And the laptop has a fullblown OS, not some retarded gimped OS that is made for tiny screens.

Both a larger iPod Touch type device, and a 10" tablet makes sense. They are TWO different market.
One is for the person who doesn't need the capabilities of the full OS while the other is.

I have worked both retail and outside sales. In retail it would have been nice to know what was in stock without going away from the customer. In outside sales, I am already carrying samples and anything that will allow me to write orders send them to the supplier and have capability to attach to a printer to give the customer a copy of their order works better.

[kim kap sol]

Both a larger iPod Touch type device, and a 10" tablet makes sense. They are TWO different market.
One is for the person who doesn't need the capabilities of the full OS while the other is.

I have worked both retail and outside sales. In retail it would have been nice to know what was in stock without going away from the customer. In outside sales, I am already carrying samples and anything that will allow me to write orders send them to the supplier and have capability to attach to a printer to give the customer a copy of their order works better.

So you want these tablets to be capable of hooking up to a printer? Sheeesh. I think you fall into a ultra-niche category that Apple will never satisfy.

[Ireland]

Notebooks and laptops simply don't work for a lot of applications. Laptops are being increasingly used in field applications where it's often difficult to find a "lap" on which to perch a "portable" computer. Working in entertainment, I see countless Macbooks on movie sets and on photo shoots, where assistants constantly seem to be doing that stand-while-holding-the-laptop-on-one-palm thing. That's why specialized industrial PDAs seem to have taken over other, more broad-based industries such as delivery services (FedEx, UPS), retailing, warehousing, etc. throughout the last decade. These specialized, industrial-use only PDAs are rugged, small, and most importantly, DON'T NEED A LAP to be able to be used effectively. But, specialized PDAs tend to be expensive, B-to-B product offerings (smaller market), and the available choice of applications for them are either limited (too vertical), or must be custom-coded (expensive). I'm not saying Apple needs to get into the industrial PDA business, but I'm betting there's a sizable market available for a super well-designed tablet-like Mac that you would use more like a clipboard, rather than a napkin.

In my view, the biggest hole in Apple's product line-up is a tablet Mac (or some otherwise, similarly conceived, use-while-standing-up kinda Mac). The iPod touch is a great product, but underpowered, and too small for most industrial applications (not to mention, too fragile). Personally, I've never liked using laptops, and never owned one, but I would consider owning a tablet PC. Although I don't really need a mobile computing platform, some of my friends' businesses certainly do, and would benefit greatly from a tablet kind of Mac. My main ergonomic gripe with the conventional laptop, I guess, is its clamshell design and its attached keyboard. I would much rather have something like Ireland's design, with an optional detachable keyboard. To me, that's head and shoulders more ergonomically and functionally adaptable, especially for work in unusually rugged or highly movable locations. You could set the main "slate" on some convenient surface, when wanting to set up a temporary mobile work area, and If someone inadvertently trips over the keyboard, for another $50, you can replace it.

Great post. That's sort of the point of this device, despite immediate concerns over usability and applications, this Mac touch would actually prove unusually versatile. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't see everyone chuck their laptops and go with this device (some people will never give up that hardware keyboard etc.), but I would see some people do that, and I would see a whole lot more choose one of these rather than a Windows or lin "netbook" - which Steve's says is still a niche market, but we all know he's lying through his teeth, they probably have several prototypes in the lab which they were testing the day he said this. When in school or at aboard meeting they would pop out the rear angle rest to prop Mac touch up at 20º for simultaneous typing, viewing and note taking.

I also believe it to be a possibility that this device will need a mother computer to sync to, not definite, but I see it as a possible angle Apple take with Mac touch. It would be like a large screened iPhone, but for real work, and syncing it back to your large desktop Mac would sync all changes you made, and it will solve the backing up issue (smaller devices won't want to be backing up via Time Machine over the air as that would hog the battery), and people will need to buy more stuff (e.g. Time Capsule) to perform backups. It would probably be set up and synced through iTunes. We'll see about this though, the product is the most important thing to me anyway, not how you set it up.

[Ireland]

Ireland,

You get our juices flowing with nice picutures and specs, but then you say that we'll have to wait over a year. That's not nice...
:D

Could you detail why you believe it's more than a year away. Apple had been working with OS X Touch, years before the iPhone came out.
Like all the naysayers say; Apple won't do this; "It's far too much work, to maintain yet another variant of OS X. Will never happen".

That's why it's, I believe, still about a year away (Macworld 2010). It's a lot, a lot, a lot of work; more work than the iPhone software (but they've gained a lot of experience), and they simply have had too much on their plate to rush this to market, they don't tend to rush stuff to market in general anyway. They are working on it, I am confident, but it's going to take some time to be ready to ship such a device. Full Cocoa touch OS X? Come on, that would take "years" :D

[REM#1]

So you want these tablets to be capable of hooking up to a printer? Sheeesh. I think you fall into a ultra-niche category that Apple will never satisfy.

Canon and other make small portable printers that many sales people use.

[ALBIM]

I just don't understand how useful this would be. It can't fit in a pocket, so what's the point of it? I just don't see how it would have an advantage over a laptop with a keyboard and mouse pad. Maybe a smaller laptop with a full touchscreen on it?

[wizard69]

Both a larger iPod Touch type device, and a 10" tablet makes sense. They are TWO different market.
One is for the person who doesn't need the capabilities of the full OS while the other is.

Yes they are two different markets but I look a tit this way the 10" would be for people that have deluded themselves into thinking that the 10 incher would be useful as a portable device. The people after the pocketable devices just want a single device in their pocket that leverages communications and significant apps.


I have worked both retail and outside sales. In retail it would have been nice to know what was in stock without going away from the customer. In outside sales, I am already carrying samples and anything that will allow me to write orders send them to the supplier and have capability to attach to a printer to give the customer a copy of their order works better.

All of that can be done from micro laptops that already have found space on the market shelf. The question you have to ask your self is this, would a Touch based device actually help in this regards or hurt. Certainly you could not expect good results out of the current state of the art in Touch based devices.

Dave

[wizard69]

So you want these tablets to be capable of hooking up to a printer? Sheeesh. I think you fall into a ultra-niche category that Apple will never satisfy.

Seriously Apple would be much farther ahead getting print drivers onto iPhone before investing time into a large tablet no body would buy. There are a lot of reasons to want to print from one of these machines. Everything form a PDF downloaded from the net to a monthly calendar.

Yeah the device is small and light weight in capabilities but that is only a short time concern. First off the ideal solution would be to use WiFi for printing services on an iPhone, so no additional hardware is required there. The software suite is non trivial but frankly much of the work has already been done. Yeah the processor is a bit pokey but people did just fine on pokey 400MHz processors only a few years ago.

The thing is this; the performance of iPhone, at its current level, is a very temporary thing. We are basically working with gen one computing hardware as the processor isn't significantly different from Apples old iPhone. If Apple really wanted to they could have SMP performance at double the clock rate in a year. That would be two cores running at 800MHz and possibly using less power overall. Now we all know Apples relationship with PA SEMI but the product doesn't even have to contend with that being a success, as Broadcom has already announced such a processor. The reality is ARM has a lot of process shrinks in its future and as a result it would be possible to put several ARM CPU's on a chip along with all the support functions. We as consumers are just now experiencing the potential os SoC techniques, just imagine what will be possible with a 32nm ARM process.

What is clear is that iPhone or competitive devices will be able to replace many peoples need of portable computers. Yeah this require evolution of Mobile OS from its current form but Apple is already going full speed ahead there.


Dave

[Ireland]

I just don't understand how useful this would be.

That my friend, is the problem. When they release it you may then.

[Ireland]

Yes they are two different markets but I look a tit this way the 10" would be for people that have deluded themselves into thinking that the 10 incher would be useful as a portable device.

Well 3.5" is useful. 10" would the "way more useful". And frankly I see it as a way to take a bite of this netbook market, and the best way for them to bring touch to the Mac.

[MacRonin]

Here's a thought...

If you don't like the idea of a pure slate tablet from Apple, okay.

But do you all have to come into threads that are CLEARLY about pure slate tablets from Apple and spread your FUD about...?!?

We (the True Believers) can go on and on about how a pure slate tablet from Apple would enrich our lives, while the naysayers have little to offer other than I don't want one, therefore, no one else should seriously want one.

Hello? That record broke a long time ago, thanks...

[Fishyesque]

We (the True Believers) can go on and on about how a pure slate tablet from Apple would enrich our lives

:lol::lol:

Cheers, man.

[sc54321]

I think having a large touch screen could yield exciting possibilities for audio applications, I'm thinking instrument control be it live or studio.

[seek3r]

What is the point of this mouse/graphical user interface idea? Wouldn't everyone rather have a command line and a keyboard then clicking on assorted icons... I just don't understand this.



::grins::

You laugh, but for 3/4s of my work that's true, sometimes a window manager is just there to organize 30 terminal windows a bit prettier than screen would :-p

(Of course I realize that's not true for 99.99% of the population, I just had to comment on it :-p)

[wizard69]

Well 3.5" is useful. 10" would the "way more useful". And frankly I see it as a way to take a bite of this netbook market, and the best way for them to bring touch to the Mac.

One of the concepts that my whole argument is based on is that of bigger equaling better doesn't always apply to hand held devices. Especially if there is a large increase in weight. The ten inch device as laid out in this thread simply won't get the adoption that many here think it will get.

As for the net books and stuff; sorry guys but with out a real key board I don't see how a Touch only device would have a chance in hell. That keyboard is very important even more so on any device you expect to use in a more interactive way than an iPod. The other thing is how would you make use of such a device when you don't want to hand hold it.

The key here to understanding how or why this won't succeed is to look at what is already on the market and has had some success. Here I'm talking about slate type devices for commercial use by suveyors, utilities and the like. These are people that actually use tablets in the field today. You will not see tablets with this form factor at all. The reason is simple, larger form factors are not conducive to on the go hand held operation. Once something becomes so wide that it can't be gripped in one hand it becomes useless.

Of course none of this presupposes that apple won't try to market such a device just that one should not expect a raging success. Instead it will be like the AIR. That is the unit will sell fast to those with little sense and then die down to practically nothing when all of the faithful have Been exploited.

To be successful one needs to look at the current IPhone. Anything that Is much wider than the current iPhone is long, is just to big. The modeled device is simply to big to be considered a hand held device.

Dave

[ALBIM]

^what he said^
8-)


If it can't fit in your pocket or easily used in one hand, then it would be pointless to have a device without a keyboard and mouse. The touch screen would only be annoying and would decrease work production. It's either got to fit in a pocket or it's a laptop (or net book if you're getting nitpicky). Touch screens that can't fit in a pants pocket SEEMS like a cool idea and would look awesome, but the functionality of it is where the product is held up.

That my friend, is the problem. When they release it you may then.Wait...you don't know the usefulness either?

I can't see a tablet going beyond games for something useful. I games would be very fun, but I'd still prefer to have a keyboard underneath.

[Kolchak]

Far better to have a netbook sized convertible tablet with both multitouch and stylus. Why stylus? So you can draw things instead of fingerpaint. Multitouch on a large 30"+ surface is different from a 10" surface which is different from a iPhone sized surface.

With a netbook sized convertible you get the best of all worlds. Compact size. Physical keyboard so you can TYPE stuff. Flip the screen over and use as a ebook, drawing surface or multitouch surface. Screen is protected when it's closed.

I wouldn't mind that. eMate 2.0, preferably with nice, grippy surfaces or even a flexible handle you can slip your fingers under so there's no fear of dropping it. Although for anything less than serious typing, an onscreen thumb keyboard might suffice. As 460FILMS noted, when you're standing up or walking, a keyboard isn't much use anyway, since you'd have to hunt and peck one-handed while holding it with the other. Just not something the size of the iPhone's virtual keyboard. With the additional real estate, they wouldn't have to be the standard linear key arrangement, either. I can imagine arc-shaped key rows that match the range of motion of the thumbs.

I disagree. Add the chip (a nominal cost) and offer an optional At&t 12 month data contract. If you don't want to pay the subscription cost, don't. You're not forced to sign any contracts, and there's no carrier lock in on Mac touch, so other phone companies can offer competitive data packages for the device, which will allow Apple to sell the device at full cost, with the added benefit of data contract competition between the companies, which will result in cheaper data deals for the user, and stimulated sales for Apple as a result.

Won't work. You would need some kind of multi-standard chip, since AT&T's 3G network isn't compatible with anybody else's. So you'd need to support Verizon's EV-DO and Sprint's Xohm WiMax (which is actually 4G) if you want any kind of choice, and neither has nationwide coverage so far.

So you want these tablets to be capable of hooking up to a printer? Sheeesh. I think you fall into a ultra-niche category that Apple will never satisfy.

Why not? There are no major stumbling blocks. This is supposed to be running full OS X, not some beefed up iPhone OS. That means it can print, just like any other Mac. And there are quite a few Bluetooth portable printers, not to mention WiFi printers. This is supposed to have both wireless interfaces.

Touch screens that can't fit in a pants pocket SEEMS like a cool idea and would look awesome, but the functionality of it is where the product is held up.
As someone who has owned both an iPhone and an iPod touch, I can tell you that the functionality of those is limited. It takes so much scrolling to get anything done, even just websurfing. It gets tiresome after only a couple of minutes. There's a reason the Kindle doesn't have a tiny scren.

[Ireland]

One of the concepts that my whole argument is based on is that of bigger equaling better doesn't always apply to hand held devices.

Please stop calling this tablet a handheld. Please! It's not in my view. I like to call it a "table tablet", and as a bonus it's the perfect "couch computer". Think Classroom Desks, DJ tables, Boardrooms, Coffee Tables, Generic Desks/Tables, Trays, Bars, Beds and Couches.

It's about "taking some work with you", and it would fit in with this modern world like fingers into a glove. It could serve "a million niches". The applications are endless. Think GIANT desktop, with a GIANT screen and boat loads of horse power at home, and all house members get a Mac touch to take with them when they are on the move. When home you sync with said desktop and it syncs your settings and changes and backs up all you data. Safe, secure, mobile, sleek, simple setup.

[MacRonin]

Please stop calling this tablet a handheld. Please! It's not in my view. I like to call it a "table tablet", and as a bonus it's the perfect "couch computer". Think Classroom Desks, DJ tables, Boardrooms, Coffee Tables, Generic Desks/Tables, Trays, Bars, Beds and Couches.

It's about "taking some work with you", and it would fit in with this modern world like fingers into a glove. It could serve "a million niches". The applications are endless. Think GIANT desktop, with a GIANT screen and boat loads of horse power at home, and all house members get a Mac touch to take with them when they are on the move. When home you sync with said desktop and it syncs your settings and changes and backs up all you data. Safe, secure, mobile, sleek, simple setup.

To reinforce what Ireland said:

PLEASE STOP CALLING THIS TABLET A HANDHELD!!!

I see a slate tablet from Apple much as Ireland outlines above, with a few tweaks...

The GIANT screen will be the 40"+ HDTV monitor hanging on the wall in the living room, and the GIANT desktop would actually be a home server/media center. Smaller monitors (think along the lines of the 24" LED Cinema Display) could have the tablet attached (to handle the windowing and 'job requests') and serve as a 'smart terminal' feeding off of the home server. I would envision modularity in this home server, so one could add processing power as needed. The Unix underpinnings would help with the whole multiple users logged in and working at the same time (like multiple users working at the same time on an Onyx 'fridge'). MobileMe has a role here also...

[synp]

Please stop calling this tablet a handheld. Please! It's not in my view. I like to call it a "table tablet", and as a bonus it's the perfect "couch computer". Think Classroom Desks, DJ tables, Boardrooms, Coffee Tables, Generic Desks/Tables, Trays, Bars, Beds and Couches.

It's about "taking some work with you", and it would fit in with this modern world like fingers into a glove. It could serve "a million niches". The applications are endless. Think GIANT desktop, with a GIANT screen and boat loads of horse power at home, and all house members get a Mac touch to take with them when they are on the move. When home you sync with said desktop and it syncs your settings and changes and backs up all you data. Safe, secure, mobile, sleek, simple setup.

I can take some documents and read them on the way to/from the office, if I'm using public transport. I can watch a movie on a plane. I can read a Word or OpenOffice document, but not really edit it. I can read my mail, and make short answers (like "OK") provided I'm in a place with wi-fi coverage...

That's nice but not worth the hassle. If I'm already carrying something like that, and putting it on a desk, I might as well carry a laptop.

[Walter Slocombe]

Yeah, that's why I want.

I want Apple to get into the tyre making business, and then expand over to seed and grain commodities :err:



yeah, but bottled water FIRST11!!!1!!

don't forget

[zunx]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/2978819516_ab6a30db0a_o.png

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2977963167_3ab11a1124_o.png

Too BIG. Better something as small or smaller (pocketable; 5-inch screen or so) and light (or lighter; 450 g or less) than the OQO:

http://www.oqo.com

With VGA out port and Firewire port. FULL MAC OS X INSIDE! The ultimate full-blown Apple Keynote and PowerPoint presentation tool. Touch scren like the iPhone and iPod touch. Create your presentation on your computer and use the Mac tablet to save it, carry it and make the presentation! Thousands needed for our University!

[Walter Slocombe]

Here's a thought...

If you don't like the idea of a pure slate tablet from Apple, okay.

But do you all have to come into threads that are CLEARLY about pure slate tablets from Apple and spread your FUD about...?!?

We (the True Believers) can go on and on about how a pure slate tablet from Apple would enrich our lives, while the naysayers have little to offer other than I don't want one, therefore, no one else should seriously want one.

Hello? That record broke a long time ago, thanks...

Isn't it equally true then the other way around, I want I want, therefore Apple must provide.

I believe that Apple should enter the bottled water business, I have posted before how this could work, its a big market and with Apple branding they could capture a large portion of this lucrative area. SO should we have constant threads started by the same nitwits going over the Same thing about how Apple SHOULD enter this market, after all I BELIEVE.

bottled water FTW!!

[Ireland]

Isn't it equally true then the other way around, I want I want, therefore Apple must provide.

I believe that Apple should enter the bottled water business, I have posted before how this could work, its a big market and with Apple branding they could capture a large portion of this lucrative area. SO should we have constant threads started by the same nitwits going over the Same thing about how Apple SHOULD enter this market, after all I BELIEVE.

bottled water FTW!!

Walter, do you ever think Apple will bring multi touch to the Mac?

I remember about 6 months before Macworld 2007 I was on here saying how obvious it was that Apple will enter the phone market, only to get the majority of people post doubtful, sometimes sarcastic, responses like yours. I was totally convinced because it was obvious. While it's not totally obvious what this Apple tablet will look like, exactly, it is obvious they are working on it, and will release it, over the next 14 months or so - well at least it is to me anyway.

P.S. You're an idiot. And I mean that in the nicest way possible :D

[Olternaut]

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/2978819516_ab6a30db0a_o.png

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2977963167_3ab11a1124_o.png

It could use some tweaking but I like it. :D

[wizard69]

Please stop calling this tablet a handheld. Please! It's not in my view. I like to call it a "table tablet", and as a bonus it's the perfect "couch computer".

Wouldn't you be holding it in your hand while using it at the couch?

Think Classroom Desks, DJ tables, Boardrooms, Coffee Tables, Generic Desks/Tables, Trays, Bars, Beds and Couches.

Ok explain how a tablet could be of any use at all in a classroom. Especially for taking notes or other data input uses.

As to the desks, tables and other places to lay it about how does one make use of the thing while it is laying about on these sorts of desks. What are you going to do pick it up to use, if so doesn't it become a handheld computer? The idea might have some merit if it the device ended up extremely light and thin but I don't have a lot of hope for that.


It's about "taking some work with you", and it would fit in with this modern world like fingers into a glove.

At least with a clam shell with a real keyboard my fingers can do a bit of typing on a keyboard. That would be very useful if I'm taking work with me.

It could serve "a million niches". The applications are endless. Think GIANT desktop, with a GIANT screen and boat loads of horse power at home, and all house members get a Mac touch to take with them when they are on the move.

Well this is funny but I don't think you are going to get all family members to carry something like that around. Frankly the iPhone draws complaints for its size right now.

When home you sync with said desktop and it syncs your settings and changes and backs up all you data. Safe, secure, mobile, sleek, simple setup.

Yeah and the iPhone doesn't do that? Further right now I don't even need to go home to have my important stuff updated.

The problem with your position is that the very things you describe as potential uses require the unit to be handheld. Frankly I'd love to see Apple have a whole line of hand held tablets, I just don't think what you describe has the potential to sell like iPods or Laptops. The applications where a tablet of that size would actually be an improvement over the current state of the art is extremely limited. Thus I don't see a huge opportunity here like there is with other sized tablets. Lets face it the iPhones screen is a little on the small size for some uses, I think everybody agrees with that. The problem is how far can we grow the concept in size before people reject it based on usability. The problem is as size increases in a device people end up with different expectations.

Well Apple can try to manage those expectations and maybe could come up with something completely different in the way of an interface. One thing that is painfully obvious is that on board keyboards won't meet that expectation. If they have something in the labs that really addresses this issue then all bets are off. The other approach Apple could take is the consumer electronics device, like IPod, such that the device primary focus would be a large media delivery device. No Mac OS in a device like that though.


Dave

[Ireland]

It could use some tweaking but I like it. :D

You're welcome to improve it, if you do a nice job I'll credit you ask making the mockup with me on MactouchFTW(dot)com :D

I'm going to throw up that site next month. It'll be just a landing page with the mockup front a center, some specs, dimension and arguments for why this would be the perfect product for Apple to produce.

[Ireland]

As to the desks, tables and other places to lay it about how does one make use of the thing while it is laying about on these sorts of desks. What are you going to do, pick it up to use, if so doesn't it become a handheld computer? The idea might have some merit if it the device ended up extremely light and thin but I don't have a lot of hope for that.

No, no, no, no.

Like I have been saying; the whole trick with this device is the rear pop-out rest. You press it in and it pops out. It's spring loaded, and when you press it back in it sits flush on the back surface making it almost invisible, aside from the dip for your finder to press it in, and the fine slit going round it's edges. 1/4" thick, 1.5" strip of aluminum going across most of the width of Mac touch, about 1" down from the very top on the rear of the product.

When lying in a bed or on the couch you'll likely use your knees, so Mac touch will rest there when being used with its rear rest closed. And for more serious use you'll find any flat desk or surface, pop out the rest and place the Mac touch on the desk where it'll sit at between a 17 and 22 degree angle. Somewhere in there is the sweet spot where you can type, use and interact with Mac touch while also looking at the screen and consuming content. Perfect for the boardroom, education, the couch and all sort of entertainment niches.

[MacRonin]

…slit…

[beavis & butthead]

Huh huh, huh huh, huh…

He said slit…

Huh huh, huh huh, huh…

[/beavis & butthead]

[Walter Slocombe]

Walter, do you ever think Apple will bring multi touch to the Mac?

I remember about 6 months before Macworld 2007 I was on here saying how obvious it was that Apple will enter the phone market, only to get the majority of people post doubtful, sometimes sarcastic, responses like yours. I was totally convinced because it was obvious. While it's not totally obvious what this Apple tablet will look like, exactly, it is obvious they are working on it, and will release it, over the next 14 months or so - well at least it is to me anyway.

P.S. You're an idiot. And I mean that in the nicest way possible :D

well, i was gonna reply, but then you throw out the insults you fool!!11!!1!!

;P

--

ok, WHY is it obvious? detail the whys, make it irrefutable show us the way..

you ever read any of the RDM articles where Dansays "Apple should..." "and heres how/why"

Well i see a lot of "Apple should", from you, but no "heres how" or "heres why", except the "because I think they should" which is hardly an argument.

I believe I could equally announce the Bottled water thing, because like, teh steeve drinks teh water.

--

I have on occasion said multi touch on the Mac would be good/cool and then you get the non functional limb people saying "oh woah is me for i am too feeble to hold up my arm all the time apple would be teh doomed if they did this in the iMac"

which is just so much whinging, I gave up. because these people can't see past their noses, Apple would not kill the mouse, so you use that, and then when software comes along that makes use of multitouch, you can use it, OR NOT. Some people don't seem to see that.

HOWEVER a tablet is a different ball of string, it WILL be underpowered, can't you hear the "oh but the macbook has .1Ghz more" or fill in the difference yourself.
It will be "required" by wishful thinking, to last for a week on one charge (you've seen the complaints about the iPhone 3G)

and it will be fairly niche for just about everyone EVEN YOU! just like the MacBook Air already is, go on, tell me you have changed your mind about that and are prepared to buy one! ;)
Don't you think the "mac touch" will have limitations that you don't want, just like more or less every Apple product ??

you admit that the "Mac touch" would have niche appeal BUT you say, lots of them, still time and time again it has been proven that hardware platforms need a "killer App" to help gain mass acceptance, WHERE would the "Mac Touch" killer App be? what would it be?

the best hope I see is as an ebook reader, but believe me, Steve thinks the iPhone/Touch are quite good enough thank you, mainly because they are so pocketable.

OK I need me dinner! :)

--

And to answer Macronin, if we didn't disagree, what would be the point? if everyone at Apple, said WOAH this is great, do you honestly think they would put out as FEW REALLY GOOD products?

I've asked some questions, I'd like to see them answered first before you convince me, and so far, nothing has convinced me, mainly because what I've asked for hasn't been addressed

[Ireland]

I believe I could equally announce the Bottled water thing, because like, teh steeve drinks teh water.

Yeah but, if you listened to those instincts you'd know that would never happen, instinctively. If you used the brain you had that is.

I don't think Apple will do it merely because "I believe it". There are many obvious reasons. Like the fact that it's the most likely way Apple will bring multi touch to the Mac. Did you ever hear of things just making sense? Or if something happens people say: "I can see why that happened".

Before the iPhone came out phones that played music were starting to become more popular, and if Apple decided to stay out of the phone market it would have only been a matter of time before the iPod would begin to die away, as people realized their phone could do all this stuff and they wouldn't need to get an iPod. In a way Apple had no choice to enter the phone market, it was in their own self interests.

The Mac tablet is not as black and white as the phone situation, but to me it feels like a slightly similar situation. Despite what Jobs says (and Jobs lies, we all know this) the netbook market is beginning to go mainstream. And Windows 7 is going crazy for the multi-touch. If Apple doesn't bring multi-touch to the Mac it will look to some like Apple has become stagnant and uncreative, and as time goes on Apple kind of won't have a choice but to enter the ultra mobile computer space. I know the Air is thin and relatively light, but other guys are lighter and becoming thinner. Apple is not going to compromise on screen or keyboard, so they'll keep the likes of the MacBook around, but it's sort of a given, given the circumstances that Apple will produce a tablet computer that makes use of, in their Macs, the best think to come out of Apple in 24 years, multi touch.

[gugy]

well i see a lot of Apple should, from you, but no here is how or where why, except the "because I think they should" which is hardly an argument.



Very well said.

[Walter Slocombe]

Very well said.

I don't think that was sarcasm :) but thanks for pointing out that sentence, it was a tad mangled.

I think it reads a bit better now. Musta been hungry!

[gugy]

no it's not, I agreed with you.
Cheers

[Walter Slocombe]

Yeah but, if you listened to those instincts you'd know that would never happen, instinctively. If you used the brain you had that is.

Thats what you say, what makes you right? I mean all I'm asking is that you go into detail an provide something that isn't just "because they should, it makes sense" I'd like to hear a rational argument for WHY it makes sense. IF its so obvious then how hard could it be for you to answer this stuff? :)

it's the most likely way Apple will bring multi touch to the Mac.

well, given the iPhone, I'd be more inclined to agree with you if you just said "bring it to OSX" because, like, thats already happened.

Looking at it though, you want Apple to innovate, but at the same time you want Apple to do it in a natural way, so "switching" over to all multi touch on a "PC" isn't gonna wash to a lot of people (like I pointed out over the resistance to the idea on an iMac) I see Apple bringing in MT bit by bit. you mention windows7 pfft. really? when will that ship? and don't believe the FUD m$ spew, those dates will be pushed back, just look to history for the evidence of that.

Apple already have MT on their core OS OSX on the iPhone, and are bringing it to the trackpad on the new MacBooks, now the question is how do they evolve that to "stay ahead" but at the same time not alienate end users? and here you are shouting MacTouchFTW!!

well, no.

Where is the NEED for a tablet?

Bill Gates has been heralding the dawn of tablet computing as THE thing for around 10 years now, so, like where is it? wheres the demand? surely if the demand was there over ten years ago, then, like, there would be a market?

have you got yearly sales figures for WW tablet sales?

Steve will be looking to grow the business and asking "Wheres the market?"

so, where is it?

Its all well and good saying there are lots of niches it could fill, but it needs to have market adoption before you attract the Devs in enough numbers to develop apps that will fill those niches........ it's very much a chicken and egg situation.

So, what is similar that has worked.

The iPhone and the App store. just look at the success of the app store, "selling" apps at a far faster rate than the iTunes store originally sold music.

but what is the difference?

the iPhone and Touch had been out for over a year first, they had MILLIONS of sales with the core device (OS), and so there was already a user base to attract the Devs, the chicken sold very well before the dev roosters saw that there was a way to make omelettes! AND THEN SELL THEM!!

SO the touch had a killer App, it was an iPod, and the iPhone had a killer app, it was a phone/ipod/mobile internet device.

the killer apps sold the device (helped by the momentum of iPod) and once the devs could be brought on board to look how big the slices of omelette pie were, we see the success grow.

---

So where is the killer app for a mac tablet?

its not portable so why would i cart it about for music?
it will likely have a SSD so it would be expensive, never mind if i just fill it up with media files.
it would be less pocketable that an iphone or touch, so I'm gonna have to NEED to bring it with me, cos if theres a choice and i DONT think i need it, then i'll just bring my iPhone.. it will be left at home.

I could go on, but I won't.

the only possibility I see (right now) that allows for it to exist as a product, is if it runs FULL OSX and SSD prices come WAY down for a given capacity (would need to start at 128GB)

but the major thing is, IF Apple can grow their core user base to above 15% of the PC using world, lets say 18-20% of all computer users are running OSX, then there might be room for this to be a hobby.

why?

because by then you may have attracted the attention of enough Devs to "possibly" support this device in all those niche areas.



The Mac tablet is not as black and white as the phone situation,

glad you can acknowledge that! :)

Apple is not going to compromise on screen or keyboard, so they'll keep the likes of the MacBook around,

Apple arnt going to compromise?

so what is the MacTouch then if it isnt a compromise between portability and power, cool to own, but what do i really need it for?

the best think to come out of Apple in 24 years, multi touch.

and it didnt "come out of" Apple, Apple bought the tech.

----


Are Apple working on this?

yeah, pretty silly if they wernt, but then what else are they working on and have worked on that we never hear about?

-

bottled water factory?

there is a great need in the US for new jobs, Apple could use some of the 20B plus dollars they are sitting on to provide jobs in that area, I mean, it makes sense ;)

[Walter Slocombe]

no it's not, I agreed with you.
Cheers

no probs :)

[Ireland]

bottled water factory?

there is a great need in the US for new jobs, Apple could use some of the 20B plus dollars they are sitting on to provide jobs in that area, I mean, it makes sense ;)

Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

I'll tell you what, we both put $5,000 in the pot, and whichever one comes true first gets $10,000. I'll buy you a $1 bottle of water out of the winnings, maybe.

[wizard69]

No, no, no, no.

Like I have been saying; the whole trick with this device is the rear pop-out rest. You press it in and it pops out. It's spring loaded, and when you press it back in it sits flush on the back surface making it almost invisible, aside from the dip for your finder to press it in, and the fine slit going round it's edges. 1/4" thick, 1.5" strip of aluminum going across most of the width of Mac touch, about 1" down from the very top on the rear of the product.

A clam shell gives you a self supporting screen for free. Notably with a usable keyboard. When the tablet is siting on its pop out support just how do you expect to interact with it? It comes down to the concept of usability which a device propped up like this just won't have.



When lying in a bed or on the couch you'll likely use your knees, so Mac touch will rest there when being used with its rear rest closed. And for more serious use you'll find any flat desk or surface, pop out the rest and place the Mac touch on the desk where it'll sit at between a 17 and 22 degree angle.

Again how will you interact with this screen when it is tipped out to 17 degrees or so. You can't as to much of the screen is to near the desktop it is sitting on. Unless of course you mean a screen that is tilted up 17 or so degrees from horizontal. In that case you have an even worst human factors issue. Not to mention an issue with viewability

Somewhere in there is the sweet spot where you can type, use and interact with Mac touch while also looking at the screen and consuming content. Perfect for the boardroom, education, the couch and all sort of entertainment niches.
I would say there is no where in there where you will find a sweet spot. But don't believe me mock up one and see how usable it is in either the tilted vertical or horizontal arrangement. Something like this might be passable as an adjunct to the rest of the iPod line as a video iPod but that is about it. Even then a handheld iPod will out sell it handily. Devices like these are best offered up as content deliver vehicles not tablet computers.

Dave

[Walter Slocombe]

Go sit in the corner and think about what you've done.

I'll tell you what, we both put $5,000 in the pot, and whichever one comes true first gets $10,000. I'll buy you a $1 bottle of water out of the winnings, maybe.

so, thats your retort? thats your argument? thats how you hope to persuade people?

jeez, you sound like the McCain campaign.

--

Anyhoo, Happy Halloween :)

[Walter Slocombe]

A clam shell gives you a self supporting screen for free. Notably with a usable keyboard. When the tablet is siting on its pop out support just how do you expect to interact with it? It comes down to the concept of usability which a device propped up like this just won't have.

yeah, so why not stick with a full keyboard, and err, put some kinda scrollable surface on there that uses MT gestures.. oh.. wait! that sounds like a MacBoo.. never mind :)


Again how will you interact with this screen when it is tipped out to 17 degrees or so. You can't as to much of the screen is to near the desktop it is sitting on. Unless of course you mean a screen that is tilted up 17 or so degrees from horizontal. In that case you have an even worst human factors issue. Not to mention an issue with viewability

I guess Neck strain isn't something that exists in his version of reality.. for a start its too much of an ergonomic issue to deal with..

I would say there is no where in there where you will find a sweet spot. But don't believe me mock up one and see how usable it is in either the tilted vertical or horizontal arrangement. Something like this might be passable as an adjunct to the rest of the iPod line as a video iPod but that is about it. Even then a handheld iPod will out sell it handily. Devices like these are best offered up as content deliver vehicles not tablet computers.

Dave

agreed, there isn't the mass market for it.

[Ireland]

so, thats your retort? thats your argument? thats how you hope to persuade people?

jeez, you sound like the McCain campaign.

Anyhoo, Happy Halloween :)

Please, someone, talk to this guy.

My retort? It was a bet.

[MacRonin]

The killer app for the Mac touch?

Educational market, replacing textbooks…

"But my iPhone is a good eBook reader…!"

Maybe for some, but do most REALLY want to be looking at that TINY screen ALL day long…?

And if you REALLY think about it, a slate tablet brings the educational market 'full circle', from the slate tablets that used chalk as a medium 'back in the day', to the modern digital slate tablet that uses a variety of inputs (multi-touch, stylus, keyboard) now. Put the Mac touch on one side of a Trapper Keeper style nylon 'binder', with a BT keyboard on the other & a position-able divider that sits between the two as a screen protector. Have an adjustable restraint to allow the 'binder' to open all the way, with the keyboard portion wrapped around back of the tablet for slate use. Tighten the 'binder' for laptop style use when needed. The 'binder' would also help protect the tablet from the everyday bumps that school kids would inflict on it.

Another (admittedly, niche market) killer app? Digital comics! If I could get a digital download of my comics every week, in addition to my physical printed comics, I would be all over that. I pick up my printed comics, safe in their bags & backings, and stash those away in the collection. No need to open them AT ALL, since I can read them via the digital copy on my Mac touch…! Bonus that I can read them wherever I might be with the Mac touch, something that would NEVER happen with the printed version…

A specialized market, yet hardly small, the medical field. A 10" Mac touch would fit quite well in the average lab coat pocket, would have a similar feel as a patient chart (aka clipboard), and allow more screen real estate to view vital stats & look at various scans/imagery on the go. Nobody wants to say, "Well, the patient died due to a prescription dosage problem because I couldn't quite make out the small text on my iPhone towards the end of my 36 hour shift…"

Another niche market, live sound reinforcement. Yeah, I can probably use an iPhone to 'remote control' my Logic rig, but again it comes back to screen real estate. I would rather have a 10" Mac touch for 'remote control' than the much smaller iPhone.

But the ONE TRUE KILLER APP…?!?

Digital lifestyle device. The 10" Mac touch is the front end, with an Apple Home Server/Media Center as the back end… Sitting on the end table in a charging dock, it is a digital picture frame. Sitting in the same dock on your night stand, it can also be a digital alarm clock (not to mention a portable digital monitor for home security cameras). From anywhere in the house, it is a digital controller for home automation, but with more screen real estate than an iPhone. Sitting on the coffee table, it is a handy internet/email portal, again with MORE screen real estate than an iPhone.

I think the REAL arguement for a 10" Mac touch is two-fold.

One - More screen real estate

Two - Full Mac OS X

To paraphrase Sting, from an older Dire Straits tune…

"I want my, I want my, I want my Mac touch, FTW!"

Good night Sarasota!

8-)

[Walter Slocombe]

Please, someone, talk to this guy.

My retort? It was a bet.

a gamble or placing a bet isnt really a cogent rational argument, in fact quite the opposite.

[Walter Slocombe]

First off, thanks for the effort YOU actually bothered to put in.

The killer app for the Mac touch?

Educational market, replacing textbooks…

ok, but its all about the willingness to go a "new way" which next tuesday will be all about in the US!! lets see.

"But my iPhone is a good eBook reader…!"

Maybe for some, but do most REALLY want to be looking at that TINY screen ALL day long…?

but do I really want to invest in NEW tech that is untested, which will be like carrying around a laptop sized device anyway, which is OLD Tech that I already know works, tough sell.

And if you REALLY think about it, a slate tablet brings the educational market 'full circle', from the slate tablets that used chalk as a medium 'back in the day', to the modern digital slate tablet that uses a variety of inputs (multi-touch, stylus, keyboard) now. Put the Mac touch on one side of a Trapper Keeper style nylon 'binder', with a BT keyboard on the other & a position-able divider that sits between the two as a screen protector. Have an adjustable restraint to allow the 'binder' to open all the way, with the keyboard portion wrapped around back of the tablet for slate use. Tighten the 'binder' for laptop style use when needed. The 'binder' would also help protect the tablet from the everyday bumps that school kids would inflict on it.

interesting, the only thing is this sounds very much like you are just trying to build the new mousetrap of the Laptop, it just sounds like a disconnected laptop.

or one of those twist screen ones.

What it does point to though, is eInk, I think for this to be announced by Jobs as the next big thing, to move forward in an revolutionary way (or even a few years from now Evolutionary ) so he can announce it as " a quarter inch thin " is if it has some kind of new eInk type screen tech. light and flexible "isn't it amazing, we really think this will replace books from now on" so likely fairly cheap, well, cheap for new tech. from Apple :)

but thats a little bit in the future yet, i believe. Still I'd be fairly sure Apples tech trolls have screens like that in for testing.

Another (admittedly, niche market) killer app? Digital comics! If I could get a digital download of my comics every week, in addition to my physical printed comics, I would be all over that. I pick up my printed comics, safe in their bags & backings, and stash those away in the collection. No need to open them AT ALL, since I can read them via the digital copy on my Mac touch…! Bonus that I can read them wherever I might be with the Mac touch, something that would NEVER happen with the printed version…

thats so niche (AND you know it! :D) I think it more likely that would come with time from a Dev/studio, great app for you to work on? that could take off, but you would need to work on DRM to avoid piracy.

A specialized market, yet hardly small, the medical field. A 10" Mac touch would fit quite well in the average lab coat pocket, would have a similar feel as a patient chart (aka clipboard), and allow more screen real estate to view vital stats & look at various scans/imagery on the go. Nobody wants to say, "Well, the patient died due to a prescription dosage problem because I couldn't quite make out the small text on my iPhone towards the end of my 36 hour shift…"

don't medical personnel double check with another member of staff in your country?

again thats gotta be something that a Dev will want to work on.

Another niche market, live sound reinforcement. Yeah, I can probably use an iPhone to 'remote control' my Logic rig, but again it comes back to screen real estate. I would rather have a 10" Mac touch for 'remote control' than the much smaller iPhone.

ok, you have me interested, but hardly mass appeal, sound engineers only make up what percent of the music industry?

But the ONE TRUE KILLER APP…?!?

Digital lifestyle device. The 10" Mac touch is the front end, with an Apple Home Server/Media Center as the back end… Sitting on the end table in a charging dock, it is a digital picture frame. Sitting in the same dock on your night stand, it can also be a digital alarm clock (not to mention a portable digital monitor for home security cameras). From anywhere in the house, it is a digital controller for home automation, but with more screen real estate than an iPhone. Sitting on the coffee table, it is a handy internet/email portal, again with MORE screen real estate than an iPhone.

ok, ok, I think i get where your coming from, but you aren't thinking about what I asked for..

practically EVER major selling consumer item sells because it fulfils one need. Razor blades sell because Every man needs to shave. all you need is a handle.

Food sells because everyone needs to eat. all you need is a mouth.

Computers sell in the millions NOW because everyone wants to access the internet/email (just ask the kids) all you need is an ISP.

ISPs. make money, because everyone wants to be connected, all you need is a computer.

mobile phones sell because? everyone wants to be able to get in touch with everyone else. all you need is, a thumb and or a voice.

iPods sell because they are a portable music player, all you need is a computer, and ok yeah a music collection

the iPod sells because it is a music player, BUT you need a computer

think about that.

now, if you view the MacTouch as a digital lifestyle device as you suggest above, what does it need? a Computer, an internet connection, a media server, one or two docks, a security system.. and on and on.

not everyone has those, not everyone has 2 of those, not everyone WANTS those things.

so each one is niche, each one divides the potential for mass appeal, look at the problems Sony was/are having with their "multi media device" in the PS3

1. its expensive, this is a problem with new/Apple tech as well.
2. it is marketed as too many things, which confuses the purchaser.

contrast this with the Wii

1 cheap
2 only really "known" for playing games.

the PS3 doe SO much more, and is the "better" deal but which is selling better?

the item that has the killer app of pick up and play.

Apple, makes the iPod its pick up and play, once attached to your computer and filled with music, the concept already existed (walkmen)

So what do people already HAVE that needs a macTouch to make their lives better/more fun? answer this ONE thing that will appeal to the biggest market and you could well have a winner, at the right price.

but lets not worry about costs till we have the killer app FIRST.





I think the REAL arguement for a 10" Mac touch is two-fold.

One - More screen real estate

Two - Full Mac OS X

To paraphrase Sting, from an older Dire Straits tune…

"I want my, I want my, I want my Mac touch, FTW!"

Good night Sarasota!

8-)

more screen real estate? why not a microsoft big ass table? all the screen you want.

or a 24" iMac.

I think screen tech will have to change/develop into something lighter quite a bit first, its getting there, but not quite ready yet.

{perhaps a little disclosure would be good here, I only use a desktop, because of the screen size issues of working with laptops. I use a laptop now and again, but I like to get my work done in the one place, I like to have my "Zone" that I work in, the chair is right, the desk is right and i don't get disturbed.
I drool at the MacBooks now that they have become more powerful, but realise that I leave my Macs running 24/7 and usually at least one of them is doing some heavy lifting (processing) so a laptop would not "Replace" my desktop.
I use my iPhone as a web browser when I'm away from my desk top, but if I'm watching TV I WATCH it, if I want to check something like email, I make a decision as to its importance and either move to the computer, or keep watching, I'm fairly sentient and can prioritise the importance :)

The only Laptop that interests me at the moment is the Air, its So light, so thin, and SO not a desktop replacement, that it would have the "single use" of being a writing machine, but alas its still on the expensive side.. however I'm constantly evaluating that, and if I can I MAY just spring for one next year.

a Tablet, wouldn't have the power I need to be a desktop replacement, nor the screen size.
Wouldn't have the portability of my iPhone for music or TV/movies.
it also wouldnt have the screen size of a 13" Air, nor the "comfort" of a full sized keyboard.

so you need to work out what it WOULD have that would make me think, yeah I could get that AS WELL.

It really needs that killer App for MOST people, that isnt already filled by another device.
}

a good start, but you still haven't given the REAL killer app.

PS, if you think this is hard, then great because it IS, if you can convince me, then you REALLY will have something good :)

[nvidia2008]

I usually bleep out my swear words... but, FUCK. That looks sweet. If not this kinda thing, what really could Apple produce in a few months time at MacWorld 2009?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3238/2978819516_ab6a30db0a_o.png

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3017/2977963167_3ab11a1124_o.png

[nvidia2008]

...Steve will be looking to grow the business and asking "Wheres the market?"...

Well, Steve will do two things if this tablet stuff comes through. One is create the market themselves. I mean, where the hell was the "multi-touch 3G mobile Internet communicator device" market before the iPhone 3G? There were some stirrings, a bit of WAP here, BlackBerry there, ipod somewhere nearby, etc.

The other thing, is as much as Apple doesn't like the corporate market, if this tablet thing is greenlit, is Apple will probably bring in a huge partner. Where? Healthcare. Apple needs to grow from the mobile space. There are *tons* of people who love the iPhone3G, and from an apps point of view want a bigger screen, functionality without having to carry, even something like a MacBook Air around.

Consumer, prosumer, and healthcare market (Apple would need to line up big corporate business -- possible given Steve's charisma), and Boom! A few million Mac Touch tablets sold each year.

Don't forget science and academia are big, big markets in and of themselves for Apple gear, even though proportionately Apple focuses so much now on the general consumer retail space.

Healthcare or "corporate science" (probably an ugly term, but hey...) is what I would position as the go-or-no-go last domino to fall in the "tablet wars".

[nvidia2008]

Edit: Ireland, I think for something like that we need a bit more "hand grip" for left or right handers... Maybe on the underside.

[nvidia2008]

Oh, and throw in e-Books*, and the tablet's pretty much here to stay. Done and dusted. Healthcare angle for business use of tablets, e-Books done right Apple tablet style, plus general purpose computing and media enjoyment, a new field of apps, GAMING, etc... BOOM!

We could almost prophesize then the final deathblows to the printed newspaper and magazine.

*Let's face it the Kindle and even Sony eBook readers are just crappy for most of the population that don't really even read much to begin with.


Well, Steve will do two things if this tablet stuff comes through. One is create the market themselves. I mean, where the hell was the "multi-touch 3G mobile Internet communicator device" market before the iPhone 3G? There were some stirrings, a bit of WAP here, BlackBerry there, ipod somewhere nearby, etc.

The other thing, is as much as Apple doesn't like the corporate market, if this tablet thing is greenlit, is Apple will probably bring in a huge partner. Where? Healthcare. Apple needs to grow from the mobile space. There are *tons* of people who love the iPhone3G, and from an apps point of view want a bigger screen, functionality without having to carry, even something like a MacBook Air around.

Consumer, prosumer, and healthcare market (Apple would need to line up big corporate business -- possible given Steve's charisma), and Boom! A few million Mac Touch tablets sold each year.

Don't forget science and academia are big, big markets in and of themselves for Apple gear, even though proportionately Apple focuses so much now on the general consumer retail space.

Healthcare or "corporate science" (probably an ugly term, but hey...) is what I would position as the go-or-no-go last domino to fall in the "tablet wars".

[Walter Slocombe]

Well, Steve will do two things if this tablet stuff comes through. One is create the market themselves.

Thats kind of what I'm getting at, where is the ONE killer app that will sell this to the masses as something they MUST HAVE ??

I'm still waiting on an answer, not based on pie in the sky wishful thinking :)


I mean, where the hell was the "multi-touch 3G mobile Internet communicator device" market before the iPhone 3G?

OK step back from the US centric RDF koolaid fueled hype, please.

if you said where was the App store-iPhone combination before the 3G iPhone, then I might agree, but devices like this DID exist prior to the iPhone, to ignore this is silly quite honestly :)


The other thing, is as much as Apple doesn't like the corporate market, if this tablet thing is greenlit, is Apple will probably bring in a huge partner.

exactly, to risky to go it all alone, there isn't a mass market appeal, but there may be a large niche market to establish first, and then possibly grow from

Where? Healthcare. Apple needs to grow from the mobile space.

but where to? and as you point out, not on their OWN.

There are *tons* of people who love the iPhone3G, and from an apps point of view want a bigger screen, functionality without having to carry, even something like a MacBook Air around.

I've addressed these points earlier, perhaps you missed them or I wasn't clear. the iPhone is an upsell device, "if you want a bigger screen, teen, then buy a Mac."

but you "get into" Macbook Air Territory pretty fast, so again, just buy the macBook, it IS the best selling Mac according to Apple.. Why do you think that is? because its cool and it WORKS.

Consumer, prosumer, and healthcare market (Apple would need to line up big corporate business -- possible given Steve's charisma), and Boom! A few million Mac Touch tablets sold each year.


Define your market first, which is it?

There is so much more Apple would need to do, and Apple DO do all these other little things with each product, that people don't realise or take for granted.

but did Apple line up corporate businesses before the iPhone got a launch? NOPE! because the market was already defined. they have now adapted (IMO reluctantly) to what business want, with M$ exchange support.

Prosumers need POWER and I have yet to see any one say that this Tablet would be a powerhouse of processing power, it WON'T be, thats not to say it couldnt run useful Prosumer Apps, but what are they? still Niche ??

Don't forget science and academia are big, big markets in and of themselves for Apple gear, even though proportionately Apple focuses so much now on the general consumer retail space.

They may be big, but they are fractured markets, requiring different Apps for different areas.

They may use POWERFUL apple gear, how many of them are running on underpowered Minis? the tablet will be underpowered, the Apps limited to niche areas.

Healthcare or "corporate science" (probably an ugly term, but hey...) is what I would position as the go-or-no-go last domino to fall in the "tablet wars".

if its the "last domino" what is the first? isn't that more important? shouldn't that be easier to define?

Oh, and throw in e-Books*, and the tablet's pretty much here to stay. Done and dusted. Healthcare angle for business use of tablets, e-Books done right Apple tablet style, plus general purpose computing and media enjoyment, a new field of apps, GAMING, etc... BOOM!

We could almost prophesize then the final deathblows to the printed newspaper and magazine.

*Let's face it the Kindle and even Sony eBook readers are just crappy for most of the population that don't really even read much to begin with.

so throw in ebooks, but realise that "most of the population don't really read much to begin with" in other words you defeat your own argument by saying that the market isnt there! :no:

We need a tighter focus guys, what is the ONE thing MOST people would actually WANT, and so spend their money on...

I know its hard to answer, thats partly my point. also, if it was easy, don't you think someone else would be doing it already?

[MacRonin]

Okay, keeping in mind I JUST woke up…

I think I have figured out what the Mac touch REALLY is…

It is the PC of the 21st century!

Entry point of the Original PC = Business market

Entry point of the Mac touch = Business, Educational, Medical, Scientific

Transitional point of the Original PC = Workplace users decide to get a PC for use at home

Transitional point of the Mac touch = Students & workplace users want one for everyday use

As for the argument about overall cost of the accessories to run the Mac touch, most folks already have a computer to sync the Mac touch with. Eventually, those computers will need replaced & a home server/media center will be that replacement; the eventual evolution of 'the home computer'. As for the docks and such, some will purchase & use them, others won't. No big deal.

Addressing the 'disconnected laptop'. Yeah, a combination of the Mac touch & a BT keyboard, combined in a nylon 'Trapper Keeper' does become a disconnected laptop, but it is a specialized configuration for the primary & secondary educational market. The main idea is a protective casing for the Mac touch, the BT keyboard is added because the 'Trapper Keeper' makes for a convenient carrying solution.

I have stated before that I would accept a convertible 10" netbook/tablet, if that was the only option besides a regular laptop. But, as others here, I would rather have a pure slate tablet. If I need a real keyboard, I could go the 'Trapper Keeper' route, or one of those roll-up portable keyboards…

And while I respect folks using what works best for them in their computing workspace, I prefer having the ability to compute while I multi-task with my media playback device (yeah, the TV). For this, I would prefer a device that does not lock me into the clamshell form factor, as it is a bit cumbersome for 'handheld' use. But a slate tablet, tucked into between my hand and my elbow, with the opposing hand running the multi-touch. A stylus would be used in the same manner.

The next few years (before the end of the world in 2012, check your Mayan calendar) in computing could be VERY exciting…!

[keithrolf]

Nice mockup!

I too have been wanting a product from Apple like this.

The size is pretty decent too. Be nice if they came in multi-sizes, a 12" option at least.

The only other addition would be an option to buy a "Wacom Penabled" upgrade. For artists & graphic designers, being able to draw directly on the screen is an advantage unlike any other.

If Apple did that I would buy one in a heartbeat. Otherwise I'm going to have to go to the darkside and buy HP's tx2500z tablet PC.

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/computer_can_series.do?storeName=computer_store&category=notebooks&a1=Category&v1=Mobility&series_name=tx2500z_series

Don't' make me do it, Apple.

[Daniel B]

Hi,

When I first got my hands on an iPhone (about a year ago), I played around with the touch interface intensively for about 30 min. When I came home and sat down in front of my (PC) laptop, my fingers unconsciously went to touch the laptop screen.

A touch based interface is simply a more natural and direct way interact with a computer, in many situations.

At home, at mostly use my laptop to surf the web or watch movies/tv. That means very little text input, so a keyboard is not needed.

When I do want to input a lot of text, typically at work, I would use a tablet as a screen - with a detached keyboard. A smaller verision of Apples wireless keyboard, and mouse, would be perfect.

To sum up, I think a tablet would be used in three different configurations (like previously discussed here):

1. Hand-held or resting against your body. On the move, standing up. Watching movies/tv in bed.

2. Slightly angled on a flat surface. Reading the morning paper at breakfast. Taking brief notes In meetings.

3. As a screen, standing up. With a wireless mouse and keyboard. For text entry intensive situations. Office work. Writing a longer e-mail at home. Watching movies/tv sittning.

A Mac Touch, would need to have some fold-in stand solution for 2 and 3.

I'm convinced that tablets are coming. Don't be fooled by MS failure to make them popular. Given the smashing success of the iPhone, I believe Apple is the perfect company to make tablets an equal success.

/Daniel

[wizard69]

Oh, and throw in e-Books*, and the tablet's pretty much here to stay. Done and dusted. Healthcare angle for business use of tablets, e-Books done right Apple tablet style, plus general purpose computing and media enjoyment, a new field of apps, GAMING, etc... BOOM!

I often hear the health care angle and frankly a good tablet is something that I see as wanted in this industry. Trouble is I don't see a rush to adopt overly large units like have been described in this thread. Size is everything and a massive tablet isn't going to be adopted readily simply because of its size.

In any event I see potential for a whole range of tablets running Mobile OS but frankly have little hope for a unit running Mac OS/X in its present form.


We could almost prophesize then the final deathblows to the printed newspaper and magazine.

And you would be very late to the ball game. Printed media is dying faster than the silver based film industry. The fact of the matter is we are going through some significant evolutionary pains right now, that have little to do with politics. You can expect many industries to disappear in the next decade. At least in their present form, many publishing industries will try to make the jump to web based business.


*Let's face it the Kindle and even Sony eBook readers are just crappy for most of the population that don't really even read much to begin with.

I wouldn't say crappy as much as I would say ill conceived. The number one problem with both devices is the limited Flash storage. Frankly I can carry a larger selection of documents around on my iPhone and have slightly more flexibility in the documents read. The only limitation is the screen size which can grow a bit and still be a pocketable device. Yes I can see the demand for a device with a larger screen but one just needs to take a walk to your local book store to see just how large is practical. Look at the size of the majority of the books sold, I don't see a huge demand for large format with this metric.

Given that it would be an Apple device with quality zooming and so forth a large screen would be more of a negative than a positive. The other reality is that like a book store there is room for a number of format sizes. The problem Apple has is delivering a format size that can sell in quantities large enough to recoup its development expense.

The other thing here is that I'd love to see Apple deliver a product with a state of the art OLED screen. This needs to remain reasonable in cost though. Done right this could end up being a literal break through device. Imagine something the size of a marginally large paperback book but lets say half the thickness of the current iPhone. That device would be stuffed with flash memory dual or maybe quad core ARM processors and nice communications hardware. Open up Mobile OS a bit and I'd jump on the product.

Dave

[Ireland]

Edit: Ireland, I think for something like that we need a bit more "hand grip" for left or right handers... Maybe on the underside.

Yeah totally true, I mentioned that before also. I was thinking some kind of gray rubber trim on the rear that blended in and was almost invisible.

[Ireland]

2. Slightly angeled on a flat surface. Reading the morning paper at breakfast. Taking brief notes In meetings.

Oh that's part of the design, it's necessary in fact. I've been pimping this idea for a while, and I call it the pop-out rear rest. Spring loaded, and popped out it holds Mac touch at 18º on any flat surface.

[Ireland]

The other thing here is that I'd love to see Apple deliver a product with a state of the art OLED screen. This needs to remain reasonable in cost though. Done right this could end up being a literal break through device. Imagine something the size of a marginally large paperback book but lets say half the thickness of the current iPhone. That device would be stuffed with flash memory dual or maybe quad core ARM processors and nice communications hardware. Open up Mobile OS a bit and I'd jump on the product.

Dave
That's another thing I want. I want it for this device and the iPhone. OLED is the tech of the future. It's thinner, brighter with better color, 1000X blacker, and it's better on battery too. Where's my time machine?

[nvidia2008]

Oh that's part of the design, it's necessary in fact. I've been pimping this idea for a while, and I call it the pop-out rear rest. Spring loaded, and popped out it holds Mac touch at 18º on any flat surface.

Nice. :smokey:

...In any event I see potential for a whole range of tablets running Mobile OS but frankly have little hope for a unit running Mac OS/X in its present form...

I'm not sure how to explain it properly, but as I see it Snow Leopard and associated strategies have something to do with bridging the Mobile OS and Ultraportable, Notebook, Desktop OS. Apple has its OS strategy for a wide range of computing "platforms" worked out already, from iPod to Mac Pro. 8-) As I see it...

[Walter Slocombe]

That's another thing I want. I want it for this device and the iPhone. OLED is the tech of the future. It's thinner, brighter with better color, 1000X blacker, and it's better on battery too. Where's my time machine?

knowing you its not in the dock, so, Menu bar??

do I win a prize? ;)

[Walter Slocombe]

I Don't Believe I just deleted my own post!
:mad::mad:

anyway

I was trying answer someone, but also point out something that i don't think anyone has addressed

I think I'd prefer a 720x480 4.5" iPhone HD.

Could you mock-up a version that is 8.5"x5.5"? If anything progresses on this front, this would be the next logical size to add to the multi-touch pantheon.

I have to agree that 10" unit is way to big.



and thats just from this thread

Everyone has a different size in mind, and then Ireland has his idea of what it should be. BUT we ALL KNOW Apple will only release in one size, so thats gotta fit to the needs of the BIGGEST audience.

So whats that audience gonna want?

and what is the killer app?

IF it was so easy, there would already be a large market, Like mobile phones but there isnt. So it IS a hard thing to crack, thats why there is so much "I want I want the kool candy" on these threads.

[MacRonin]

I like orange kool-aid…

Oh, and a PSA:

"Never accept Kool-Aid from a man named Jim…"

[Ireland]

knowing you its not in the dock, so, Menu bar??

do I win a prize? ;)

I love the way the group who are doubtful are fast becoming a very small group. They'll release their tablet and have it on Apple.com and you Walter will still be arguing as to when they'll never release one. "I still say they should do bottled water." It's getting old that one, think about growing up a little.

[ALBIM]

well, if you just CAN'T wait for these tablets (that is, if apple ever goes into that market), you could just do this (http://cultofmac.com/turn-your-macbook-into-a-mac-tablet/4416)

[Walter Slocombe]

I love the way the group who are doubtful are fast becoming a very small group. They'll release their tablet and have it on Apple.com and you Walter will still be arguing as to when they'll never release one. "I still say they should do bottled water." It's getting old that one, think about growing up a little.

now now, don't get cranky, or you just sound childish.

"They'll just release their tablet"

but you STILL haven't made an effort to say WHAT the killer app is, HAVE YOU?

its funny how you say the bottled water is getting old, I think this is the second time I've mentioned it in a thread, but please do tell me how many threads you have STARTED about the SAME topics? and how THAT doesn't get old?

but then Gee questions are something you don't like to answer, just extol the wonder of your own apparent prophetic wisdom.

[Ireland]

well, if you just CAN'T wait for these tablets (that is, if apple ever goes into that market), you could just do this (http://cultofmac.com/turn-your-macbook-into-a-mac-tablet/4416)

God no.

[Ireland]

now now, don't get cranky, or you just sound childish.

"They'll just release their tablet"

but you STILL haven't made an effort to say WHAT the killer app is, HAVE YOU?


I have plenty of times. You only see what you want to see. And you continually turn to sarcasm and pettiness, and if someone points it out to you you call them a child. Like I said, they could release the thing and you'll still be looking for proof.

You'll never have enough proof, so you have to rely on intuition, intelligence, common sense and judgement. You'll have to wait for this multi-touch tablet, but it's coming. Do you own an iPhone?

[Walter Slocombe]

I have plenty of times. You only see what you want to see. And you continually turn to sarcasm and pettiness, and if someone points it out to you you call them a child. Like I said, they could release the thing and you'll still be looking for proof.

ok fine accuse me of being sarcastic and then turn to sarcasm yourself. Irony.

I have plenty of times.

WHERE? Links to posts please (not a long sprawling thread link :) just the post would do)

God no.

whats wrong with it? its a tablet, its running FULL OSX, isnt that what you want? have you tried one out?

damn, there I am again with questions you likely won't answer.

PS, you think I'm sarcastic, I'm off to watch the Marx Brothers ;)

[Ireland]

Whats wrong with it? its a tablet, its running FULL OSX, isnt that what you want? have you tried one out?

damn, there I am again with questions you likely won't answer.
Ask questions, but lose the presumptuousness.

It's doesn't have a built-in tablet rest. It's too think and heavy for being a small tablet. It's not the real Apple-made thing, so it lacks a cocoa touch OS X, multi-touch and a capacitive glass touch screen. It also lacks the fit, finish and touches an Apple set-up would have. I've seen them in action, you can't use your fingers for a start, yuck! And when you use the stylus there's a cursor tracking along under it, horrible. Not to mention its touch keyboard is the God awful. Besides, it's 13" not 10.

[ALBIM]

God no.good to know you wouldn't sink that low :D

[Ireland]

good to know you wouldn't sink that low :D

Lolly :D

[vinea]

I often hear the health care angle and frankly a good tablet is something that I see as wanted in this industry.

Actually, I've watched them go from slates to convertibles because typing on a real keyboard is preferred.

If you're going lug around an external keyboard a lot you might as well have a laptop. You could easily get a slightly thicker MBA as a convertible. You're adding a multitouch sensor (thin) and a digitizer (thin) and a swivel to the base MBA form factor.

[MacRonin]

As I have said many times already, I would settle for a convertible laptop/tablet from Apple, but with a few requirements…

I would like to see a 10" convertible with both multi-touch AND stylus (stored in the unit itself) capabilities. The internals from the MacBook Air would be good, and a screen with a high dpi (like the iPhone has) would be great. BlueTooth tethering to an iPhone nano on the go would be sweet, and a stereo BlueTooth headset/mic combo would be sweeter. This unit would sync with the new Apple Home Server/Media Center when in the house, and with MobileMe while on the go.

[s.asad]

Boo!
Just gimme the man-sized iPhone/iPod touch HD already
5.25" x 3" x 1"
160GB HDD or more.
Better processor and d/a jack.
Dope high-res multi-touch screen
Charge me $749

[Walter Slocombe]

Ask questions, but lose the presumptuousness.

It's doesn't have a built-in tablet rest. It's too think and heavy for being a small tablet. It's not the real Apple-made thing, so it lacks a cocoa touch OS X, multi-touch and a capacitive glass touch screen. It also lacks the fit, finish and touches an Apple set-up would have. I've seen them in action, you can't use your fingers for a start, yuck! And when you use the stylus there's a cursor tracking along under it, horrible. Not to mention its touch keyboard is the God awful. Besides, it's 13" not 10.

seems a very narrow "fan-boy" view.

and if Apple brought out any other size than 10" you wouldn't buy it. I believe I said something to that effect in another thread to you already.

you have this dream of how it should look and act, I really think you'd be disappointed no matter what Apple bring out.

please, do tell me how I'm being presumptuous and you are not?

I'm not the one saying Apple WILL do this or WILL do that, am I? so pot, meet kettle.

I HAVE set out some problems that seem reasonable to have to overcome in order to reach as big a market as possible. If its not clear to you, I am capable of holding two ideas in my head at once
1. Apple has a lot of problems to over come in order to SUCCESSFULLY bring this type of product to market. so CAN we work them out?
and
2. that they wont be able to overcome them successfully any time soon.

I realise you are fairly new to Apple as a company and it seems like they can do no wrong, also that Steve is one of their biggest assets, yet you continually call him a liar. but Apple does have its faults, and it IS run by humans.

"any technology far enough removed, will seem like magic"

Apple only seem to have the magic fairy dust that falls upon their products, but it takes REAL hard work and thinking to arrive at those points, and I am simply trying to get a coherent rational answer as to what is the one single MUST have feature for this device that has MASS MARKET appeal? if it was easy the market would already be there, because its hard the market is tiny and converged on the scant few niche uses, that I'm trying to get away from and find out what would excite the masses :)
I agree with you in principal that MT computing will become more pervasive in the future* but in what form?
those of us that post on this board are not the average person on the street that now FINALLY uses an ipod /maybe. we are more likely to have or want the "bother" of a home server, docks and all the paraphernalia that might support a Mac Touch. but most people want simplicity, they want the device to have one clear advantage to their lives.

can you or anyone answer what that one clear advantage is?

not yet I see. :(

----

as an aside, and to try and move from your impasse, could I ask what your views are on a multitouch iMac are? are you for or against it? and why? :)



* "in the future" is rather vague, I believe it will take longer than you think, but if we don't see it in 4 to 5 years time, then I would be surprised, however it will TAKE 4 to 5 years, and then that will be dependant on how reliable VERY thin screen tech. moves forward. IMO. please note, that I am not being presumptuous in saying I KNOW, but that it is an opinion only, and also that I have given a REASON, I find it very presumptuous that someone should NOT show their "working out" and just arrive at the "FTW" answer. [smile]

[vinea]

As I have said many times already, I would settle for a convertible laptop/tablet from Apple, but with a few requirements…

I would like to see a 10" convertible with both multi-touch AND stylus (stored in the unit itself) capabilities. The internals from the MacBook Air would be good, and a screen with a high dpi (like the iPhone has) would be great. BlueTooth tethering to an iPhone nano on the go would be sweet, and a stereo BlueTooth headset/mic combo would be sweeter. This unit would sync with the new Apple Home Server/Media Center when in the house, and with MobileMe while on the go.

That's hardly "settling" and far better than a 10" slate would be.

[Kolchak]

I would like to see a 10" convertible with both multi-touch AND stylus (stored in the unit itself) capabilities. The internals from the MacBook Air would be good

There's a problem right there. Using the internals from the MBA would instantly make it expensive. Adding more capabilities including MultiTouch screen and it easily becomes a $2k+ machine. No, they need to build it from the ground up with cheaper components, like Moorestown. With Intel implementing things like H.264 decoding in hardware for portable devices, we don't desperately need high-speed CPUs for a device that won't be doing things like Final Cut editing.

[vinea]

"I don't see one kind of interface, multi-touch or whatever it is, [replacing] the traditional keyboard and mouse. When the mouse came about, the keyboard didn't go away."

- Jeff Han
Perceptive Pixel

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/11/04/magic.wall/index.html

[vinea]

There's a problem right there. Using the internals from the MBA would instantly make it expensive. Adding more capabilities including MultiTouch screen and it easily becomes a $2k+ machine. No, they need to build it from the ground up with cheaper components, like Moorestown. With Intel implementing things like H.264 decoding in hardware for portable devices, we don't desperately need high-speed CPUs for a device that won't be doing things like Final Cut editing.

No, it's not a problem and the Air is in no way a very fast machine. Why? Because unless it is VERY cheap (cheap netbook cheap...like $300-$400 or so) it's still too expensive unless it's a full notebook replacement. Otherwise you have to buy a MacBook/iMac AND a tablet AND an iPhone and that would just be annoying. Bad enough that you sync a phone to want to sync three ways even with a cloud somewhere as your common point.

You could use the MB sans optical drive as the base. I doubt that would be much thicker. But a MB based convertible tablet can serve as a desktop replacement (hooked up to a large ACD and keyboard/mouse), a notebook (since it has an integrated keyboard) and a tablet (because it's a convertible).

If you really really want a slate, then it should dock into a notebook form. But if folks thought a convertible hinge was hinky this is even more problematic. But possible. And of course there are the inevitable pictures of a tablet docked into an iMac from the patent office.

But you sure as hell don't want a Moorestown based iMac.

[Ireland]

"I don't see one kind of interface, multi-touch or whatever it is, [replacing] the traditional keyboard and mouse. When the mouse came about, the keyboard didn't go away."

- Jeff Han
Perceptive Pixel

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/11/04/magic.wall/index.html

I don't care what Jeff Han says. He didn't invent MT either. Anyway, if this came out I'd still own a desktop - so in that respect I agree. Besides, those who "really" want a physical keyboard will still be able to buy them.

[MacRonin]

Maybe the 10" Mac touch will actually be the 10" MacBook touch, a convertible laptop/tablet…?!?

Slate tablet as desired, physical keyboard as needed…

Size of a netbook, but so much more…!

;^p

[Ireland]

Maybe the 10" Mac touch will actually be the 10" MacBook touch, a convertible laptop/tablet…?!?

I don't think it will be though. Auto-correction added to Snow Leopard is another clue the keyboard will be an onscreen one.

[Kolchak]

Maybe the 10" Mac touch will actually be the 10" MacBook touch, a convertible laptop/tablet…?!?

Again, taking a fairly expensive ($1299) machine and adding more capabilities (i.e. touchscreen) pretty much guarantees a computer that's too expensive to be popular.

[MacRonin]

Cost…

It is cost that keeps me coming back around to the idea of a pure slate tablet over the flexibility of a convertible device.

Taking out the keyboard and simplifying the chassis without the clamshell lid (or the convertible hinge) is gonna knock something off the price. Dropping FlashRAM prices is gonna knock something off the price. Pulling from a standard parts bin (MacBook Air & MacBook internals), especially if those same parts bins are being used by a revamped Mac mini & possibly low-end iMacs, should lower prices with volume purchases.

All I ask is for enough compute power to reasonably run Mac OS X and it's bundled apps; Safari, Mail, iChat, iLife, etc.; and a few key apps, such as the iWork suite & World of Warcraft…

For that matter, three free months of WoW with every purchase (must also purchase a year of MobileMe) would be a great sales incentive!

If Apple could offer a 10" Mac touch slate tablet with BOTH multi-touch & stylus capabilities for US$899 they would have a hard time keeping them in stock. Love it or hate it, everyone would want to at least try it…

I am thinking…

1.6GHz Core2Duo CPU/ 2GB RAM/ 64GB SSD/ nVidia 9400M GPU

?!?

:smokey:

[Ireland]

If Apple could offer a 10" Mac touch slate tablet with BOTH multi-touch & stylus capabilities for US$899 they would have a hard time keeping them in stock. Love it or hate it, everyone would want to at least try it…

I am thinking…

1.6GHz Core2Duo CPU/ 2GB RAM/ 64GB SSD/ nVidia 9400M GPU
I think Apple's target price will be $999. There's something I think you should remember when considering specs though, the likelihood is this device won't be ready until Macworld 2010. A lot can change in over a year in this industry, this thing will be quite powerful for what it is.

[vinea]

I don't care what Jeff Han says. He didn't invent MT either. Anyway, if this came out I'd still own a desktop - so in that respect I agree. Besides, those who "really" want a physical keyboard will still be able to buy them.

The point is that a significant MT researcher does not believe MT replaces the physical keyboard. Therefore, for most users, they probably still WILL want a physical keyboard so a convertible makes more sense than a slate.

If you need to own another notebook or desktop, then that large a device will likely fail.

Besides, I certainly know that Han didn't invent MT. Not sure that Buxton can claim that title either but he was at UoT where a lot of early work was done. Univeristy of Toronto or Bell Labs likely claims that first. Maybe CMU.

[nvidia2008]

I've suggested this before, thought I'd mention it again.

Once they are able to do "tactile feedback" multi-touch, the days of "physical" keys and physical mice will be numbered.

For example, the "desktop" keyboard is a glass/etc curved, organic surface. However, imagine if besides being multi-touch responsive, there is also some sort of "tactile" feedback.

Some sort of (non-damaging) nerve-stimuli to make you "feel the keys", or even say, "feel textures" as you use it. Should be possible with some sort of minor electrical discharge.

Am I the only one thinking about the awesome pr0n applications of this!!! I mean, let's just keep it focused on the finger stimuli first...

Jeez, I am a dirty bastard, aren't I...

Seriously though, tactile feedback.

As many of us know, when typing on the keyboard or even SMS-ing when we used to/ when we have/ Nokias and Sony Ericssons, tactile button response is very important.

I pretty much type now most of the time looking at the screen not the desktop keyboard at all. Bring tactile to multi-touch, make it as humanly-intuitive as possible, and voila! The death of the mouse and keyboard will *not* be exaggerated then...

Imagine first-person-shooter gaming. Would be wicked. I say, put virtual-reality and 3D and "feedback vests" aside. Make mainstream multi-touch electro-nerve tactile feedback, fully blank-slate input devices available within 5 to 10 years. Multi-touch meets Biotechnology meets UserInteractionDesign.



The point is that a significant MT researcher does not believe MT replaces the physical keyboard. Therefore, for most users, they probably still WILL want a physical keyboard so a convertible makes more sense than a slate.

If you need to own another notebook or desktop, then that large a device will likely fail.

Besides, I certainly know that Han didn't invent MT. Not sure that Buxton can claim that title either but he was at UoT where a lot of early work was done. Univeristy of Toronto or Bell Labs likely claims that first. Maybe CMU.

[nvidia2008]

Oh, and of course tactile is very relevant for Mac Touch tablet down-the-line, and of course accessibility for deaf/blind/dumb* (not sure what the politically correct terms for those are) users.

*hearing, visual, etc. impaired... I mean.

*Tactile* multi-touch will be the biggest user input device revolution since the mouse came out of Xerox PARC (IIRC)...!

[Kolchak]

That's not "tactile." That's haptic.

[Ireland]

That's not "tactile." That's haptic.

Actually that would be tactile, Apple have a patent on this - the idea of which scares me.

[vinea]

I've suggested this before, thought I'd mention it again.

Once they are able to do "tactile feedback" multi-touch, the days of "physical" keys and physical mice will be numbered.


We've seen this before in the Starfire concept except that the textured surface would allow you to discern desktop from "papers" on the desktop


For example, the "desktop" keyboard is a glass/etc curved, organic surface. However, imagine if besides being multi-touch responsive, there is also some sort of "tactile" feedback.

Some sort of (non-damaging) nerve-stimuli to make you "feel the keys", or even say, "feel textures" as you use it. Should be possible with some sort of minor electrical discharge.


One issue with losing a physical keyboard determination of what is a keypress and what is just resting on the keys. It depends on the typist how much they rest on the keyboard but today, physical keyboards can sense this difference because of key travel.

You'd want fairly discrete pressure sensing and you still have little travel which is an issue even with thin physical keyboards.


Seriously though, tactile feedback.

As many of us know, when typing on the keyboard or even SMS-ing when we used to/ when we have/ Nokias and Sony Ericssons, tactile button response is very important.


Notice that some phones are better than others for texting. One key factor is key feel and the flat keys on some phones have little travel.


I pretty much type now most of the time looking at the screen not the desktop keyboard at all. Bring tactile to multi-touch, make it as humanly-intuitive as possible, and voila! The death of the mouse and keyboard will *not* be exaggerated then...

Adding real tactile feedback is still a challenge for our industry. There are some approaches in the labs but none that I've seen (I'm about 6 months behind though in my journal reading and I skipped a conference or two this past year) but not very suitable to put on top of a LCD. The few Ive seen use projection onto a tactile surface.

So I don't disagree except that the challenge is difficult and the physical dimensions tend to preclude a lot of simulated key travel. At best you get a membrane keyboard kinda feel.

[Kolchak]

Actually that would be tactile, Apple have a patent on this - the idea of which scares me.

People often misuse the term. It's haptic. Google it.

[Olternaut]

People often misuse the term. It's haptic. Google it.

No its not haptic. Why don't YOU google the patent in question.

*school kids in yard all say "ohhhhhhhhhhhhh" in unison*

So what now brown cow??!! :wow::D:p

[Kolchak]

Whatever. Like patents always use the proper terminology. Believe what you want. I bet you're one of those people who talk about "heads-up displays."

[wizard69]

Really guys lets get a grip there is no market for a device that runs Mac OS/X as its primary operating system. Apples best chance of success is the marketing of devices derived from the iPod line and its OS. They need a device that can drive volume in ways that Apples PC hardware can't.

That is why I suspect the next Touch device from Apple will be a true Video IPod. It will be an iPod in the same sense as the Touch and iPhone, with an OS that supports apps in the same way that the current Touch and iPhone do. Apples goal wold be to move ten million in the first year, this to handily cover the development costs at PA Semi.

As to Video IPod, well you can call it whatever you want but honestly I still think Newton 2 is just the nuts. As a Newton 2 though it will be much thinner and much higher in performance than the old Newton. Still portable but a much more compelling Game platform than Touch, a much more useful internet device than IPhone and hopefully something that packs a lot of solid state storage space.

Dave

[Ireland]

Really guys lets get a grip there is no market for a device that runs Mac OS/X as its primary operating system. Apples best chance of success is the marketing of devices derived from the iPod line and its OS. They need a device that can drive volume in ways that Apples PC hardware can't.

That is why I suspect the next Touch device from Apple will be a true Video IPod. It will be an iPod in the same sense as the Touch and iPhone, with an OS that supports apps in the same way that the current Touch and iPhone do. Apples goal wold be to move ten million in the first year, this to handily cover the development costs at PA Semi.

As to Video IPod, well you can call it whatever you want but honestly I still think Newton 2 is just the nuts. As a Newton 2 though it will be much thinner and much higher in performance than the old Newton. Still portable but a much more compelling Game platform than Touch, a much more useful internet device than IPhone and hopefully something that packs a lot of solid state storage space.

Dave
I really "thin" you may be crazy :D

[nvidia2008]

...Adding real tactile feedback is still a challenge for our industry. There are some approaches in the labs but none that I've seen (I'm about 6 months behind though in my journal reading and I skipped a conference or two this past year) but not very suitable to put on top of a LCD. The few Ive seen use projection onto a tactile surface.

So I don't disagree except that the challenge is difficult and the physical dimensions tend to preclude a lot of simulated key travel. At best you get a membrane keyboard kinda feel.

Interesting... The thing I would say is that until the mouse came along, which most people thought was "WTF?" at first, human-computer interaction was based on an old technology, the typewriter, which was based I believe in part on an even older technology, the Guternberg press.

What I would propose to the boffins* is to explore the characteristics and benefits of the key travel itself. Key travel offers a feel of whether a key has been depressed or not. What it does *not* offer I feel is the knowledge of *which* key was pressed. That comes from the visual feedback of the letters displayed on the screen, as well as feeling the texture and bumps of the keys as one's fingers move across the keypad.

I suggest the approach whereby some nerve stimulation is discharged through the skin. Given touch is an electrical-nerve-stimuli thingy anyway.

It's the *nature* of the stimulation that may be important. I propose looking at the problem across three areas:

1.
Without actually "pressing" any of the keys on the tacticle/haptic multitouch surface, just "washing" your hands over the surface would need to give a multitude of nerve stimulation, as that's how we "feel" where the keys are.

2.
Which key is your finger over? That is an important stimuli. I have no bloody idea how Braille works but I think that's an intriguing area to draw a lot of information from. Currently, in modern keyboards, we guess what a key is only by relative positioning within the whole keyboard. What if different tactile/haptic keys gave a different kind of stimuli? That would be the idea of texture. With just the tip of our finger, we can feel metal, wood, earth, skin, etc.

Could a vowel key feel more metallic? Would a number key feel more "woody"? Can these be customised to the user? Perhaps this is the "Braille" for sighted people. An "A" might feel like paper, etc...

3.
Key travel : that is, the tactile/haptic sensation of the key actually being depressed. Yeah, perhaps the membrane feeling might be the best that is practical. However, being a Biology major (wasted dreams of doing Medicine :):D) I feel electrophysiology is still a nascent area. Biofeedback has always been an attractive and sellable area of research, within the scope of Neuroscience, Physiology and BioEngineering.

Again, I am no expert since I specialised in Genetics in my undergraduate years, but I think we really have to go back and look at the actual sensation of touch. How do we "feel" that a key has been pressed? Is it a nerve response of a shift in certain tendons due to the movement of the finger in a certain way? Can this nerve response be simulated so that one "feels" that one has "pressed" a key even though it never happened?

Yes.... Enter... the Matrix.



*Um... I don't think this word is used in the USA? Check it out. :)

[nvidia2008]

Of course, what follows next is if this kind of touch stimuli can be delivered without touching, for example, if your hands are within a 3D magnetic field. In other words all that "Virtual Glove" stuff except you don't need no gloves, and as we know from playing Wii, it looks cool in Minority Report but it must be frickin exhausting to wave your arms just to see if a new email came in. 8-)

However, if you look at the cubic space which we type in currently, the "Y" axis is actually a few inches. So 3D magnetic tactile/haptic response need not be over a huge area, just the width (X axis) and depth (Z axis) of a regular keyboard, with the height (Y axis) as the "new" 3D keyboard sensation space.

Wow. This could really be a fascinating area of user interface research. Isn't MIT's Media Lab supposed to be doing this kind of stuff? Or are they overrated nowadays? I did have some sort of boyhood fantasy (besides going into space... which is just a matter of a million or so bucks nowadays)... about being at the MIT Media Lab some day. But I digress.

It may not sound so facetious to suggest somebody in Bangalore is working on this.

Edit: With regard to 3D gestures, it is pertinent to note that *detecting* the movements of the fingers is half the job. Is there a way to deliver (through an EM field) touch stimuli to the naked hands within such an EM field? Imagine if you could feel your hands around some sort of virtual joystick. Even though it is *just* your hands in that 3D EM field.

[nvidia2008]

As I have said many times already, I would settle for a convertible laptop/tablet from Apple, but with a few requirements…

I would like to see a 10" convertible with both multi-touch AND stylus (stored in the unit itself) capabilities. The internals from the MacBook Air would be good, and a screen with a high dpi (like the iPhone has) would be great. BlueTooth tethering to an iPhone nano on the go would be sweet, and a stereo BlueTooth headset/mic combo would be sweeter. This unit would sync with the new Apple Home Server/Media Center when in the house, and with MobileMe while on the go.

If iPhones and iPods had decent 250GB drives in them, and could do 720p output, boy that would be a Media Centre by itself. No need for no Apple TV or Microsoft Windows Media Centre.

Pop your iPhone in a simple dock (or just connect a cable), and voila, you're downloading 720p, or playing 720p you synced wireless or wirelessly a few hours ago, etc...

Probably within 5 years. Maybe within 2 years.

The only problem is the set top boxes are useful for just chucking it there and letting it download stuff in the background. If however compression tech and bandwidth was good enough, everything would just be on-demand streaming. So you wouldn't need as much storage even, because "the network is the content"... LOL to paraphrase a vision by a certain celestially-named company, a vision which did not quite come to pass... yet.

[wizard69]

If iPhones and iPods had decent 250GB drives in them, and could do 720p output, boy that would be a Media Centre by itself. No need for no Apple TV or Microsoft Windows Media Centre.

One thing I was extremely disappointed with when the new iPods came out, was a reasonable increase in storage. To me this means that Apple has an alternative device, in the wings, that would offer up much more solid state storage. What is obvious is that Apple made a decision not to support more Flash storage on Touch for better or worst.

If such a device offered video out all the better. A Display Port compatible output would be even better.


Pop your iPhone in a simple dock (or just connect a cable), and voila, you're downloading 720p, or playing 720p you synced wireless or wirelessly a few hours ago, etc...

Have you invaded my dreams or what? My only difference would be the desire to see 1080P. Of course there are plenty of people out there that likely think we are crazy but I'd suggest they simply don't know what is possible with a highly integrated SoC at 45nm. Given the right process Apple should be able to place four ARM CPUs on a die along with the video and other interface hardware. We might end up seeing one CPU chip and X number of flash chips doing amazing thins on future machines. This isn't to say that current Touch devices aren't minimal in chip count but rather what those chips are able to do and at what power level will be shocking.


Probably within 5 years. Maybe within 2 years.

The only problem is the set top boxes are useful for just chucking it there and letting it download stuff in the background. If however compression tech and bandwidth was good enough, everything would just be on-demand streaming. So you wouldn't need as much storage even, because "the network is the content"... LOL to paraphrase a vision by a certain celestially-named company, a vision which did not quite come to pass... yet.

I'm actually thinking something new early next year.

As to streaming for the most part I see that as crap as you end up paying for every view. Of course the right pricing, broad band and good buffering could make that all very possible. If Apple was smart they would give everyone options between streaming and local storage.

In any event I see huge potential in the concept of a video iPod. If Apple isn't working on such they need to have their heads examined.

Dave

[nvidia2008]

Have you invaded my dreams or what? My only difference would be the desire to see 1080P. Of course there are plenty of people out there that likely think we are crazy but I'd suggest they simply don't know what is possible with a highly integrated SoC at 45nm. Given the right process Apple should be able to place four ARM CPUs on a die along with the video and other interface hardware. We might end up seeing one CPU chip and X number of flash chips doing amazing thins on future machines. This isn't to say that current Touch devices aren't minimal in chip count but rather what those chips are able to do and at what power level will be shocking...Dave

Nah, just tapping into them global-avant-garde-consciousness stream thingys. 8-)

Seriously though, Nvidia and others are working on a lot of mobile (as in handheld) chips that can do some serious sh*t.

Hopefully some stuff like this will come to iPhone/iPod over the next few years. We're talking moving up to console-quality gaming, Media-Centre quality 720p (and then 1080p) processing with 5 channel audio, etc. Give it a few years... or less. :wow:

http://www.nvidia.com/page/handheld.html

Nvidia's Tegra already promises a lot of the above.

The key is like you say mashing together a whole bunch of chips. The CPU, Nvidia Tegra/Chipset/Graphics/Etc and the Memory chips. It's close. That and battery tech is improving well but needs a bit of kick in the butt to keep up with today's power and 24/7 society demands.

[nvidia2008]

I can bet my bottom dollar Nvidia is dying to get more into the mobile space, so they're pretty pleased about their implementation in Apple's *entire* portable line.

Next up: Nvidia gets into iPhone. There's a few angles here. Video, Gaming of course. 720p video output. Then, CUDA/OpenCL on the iPhone. Therefore, just like what we're close to on the desktop and laptop, we could have iPhone using both ARM CPU and NvidiaHandheld GPU/GPGPU.

It may or may not happen, but Nvidia is seriously trying to get into the Apple Tablet and Apple Handheld/Mobile space. My personal guess is where Nvidia has to bring it's A+ game is CUDA and OpenCL.

If the benefits of increased cost/space/etc. of a powerful GPGPU/GPU outweighs difficulties/cost of increasing ARM/Intel CPU power, then... They could tip the scales.

You could almost say Nvidia wants to be a "CPU" player of its own. It's got the manufacturing ability and so on, but architecture wise it's gotta go with what it has.

Of course an Intel-Nvidia merger may happen, but only if Nvidia is doing real bad, IMO, or if AMD and ATI start to get back strong into the mainstream, which I doubt.

[Lemon Bon Bon.]

I can bet my bottom dollar Nvidia is dying to get more into the mobile space, so they're pretty pleased about their implementation in Apple's *entire* portable line.

Next up: Nvidia gets into iPhone. There's a few angles here. Video, Gaming of course. 720p video output. Then, CUDA/OpenCL on the iPhone. Therefore, just like what we're close to on the desktop and laptop, we could have iPhone using both ARM CPU and NvidiaHandheld GPU/GPGPU.

It may or may not happen, but Nvidia is seriously trying to get into the Apple Tablet and Apple Handheld/Mobile space. My personal guess is where Nvidia has to bring it's A+ game is CUDA and OpenCL.

If the benefits of increased cost/space/etc. of a powerful GPGPU/GPU outweighs difficulties/cost of increasing ARM/Intel CPU power, then... They could tip the scales.

You could almost say Nvidia wants to be a "CPU" player of its own. It's got the manufacturing ability and so on, but architecture wise it's gotta go with what it has.

Of course an Intel-Nvidia merger may happen, but only if Nvidia is doing real bad, IMO, or if AMD and ATI start to get back strong into the mainstream, which I doubt.

NOthing outlandish.

I think the 'giant' iPhone/iPod/Touch/netbook slant is on its way. Something between the iPhone and the Macbook.

Basically a smaller iMac or Macbook with guts in the screen. Running the touch stuff ala iPhone.

...and...........you blow the 'nascent' netbook laptop market out the water. You could even add your own iMac style keyboard to a 'computer' like that.

*Looks towards the skies of SanFran 09. Not long ago we saw the revolutionary iPhone.

A 'giant' one? An evolutionary follow on...and then laptops are living on borrowed time...as anything other than a desktop replacement?

Lemon Bon Bon.

[wizard69]

I can bet my bottom dollar Nvidia is dying to get more into the mobile space, so they're pretty pleased about their implementation in Apple's *entire* portable line.

They should be and so should Apples customers. Even Apples low end notebook is now leading edge performance wise. Considering we are talking about what would have been desktop performance a couple of years ago. Plus the system is CUDA capable.

Next up: Nvidia gets into iPhone. There's a few angles here. Video, Gaming of course. 720p video output. Then, CUDA/OpenCL on the iPhone. Therefore, just like what we're close to on the desktop and laptop, we could have iPhone using both ARM CPU and NvidiaHandheld GPU/GPGPU.

Well that to me is more of a stretch. Apple could have an agreement to use their IP in PA Semi developed chips but Apple has enough IP options there to build their own OpenCL optimized video chip. The big problem with handhelds of course is the battery and it's limited ability to drive high performance chips. That means compromises in performance.


It may or may not happen, but Nvidia is seriously trying to get into the Apple Tablet and Apple Handheld/Mobile space. My personal guess is where Nvidia has to bring it's A+ game is CUDA and OpenCL.

One can't dismiss the importance of gaming in the handheld arena but for nvidia to play here they would have to drastically reduce power consumption with respect to the alternatives. Cuda is nice but is not required for OpenCL.


If the benefits of increased cost/space/etc. of a powerful GPGPU/GPU outweighs difficulties/cost of increasing ARM/Intel CPU power, then... They could tip the scales.

You might as well write Intel out of the equation. I don't believe they will ever be able to catch up with ARMs low power performance. The big mystery right now is PA Semi and what Apple is really doing with them. Apple may not have any interest at all in external SoC vendors. Of course the question is this: is PA really working on mobile chips?

You could almost say Nvidia wants to be a "CPU" player of its own. It's got the manufacturing ability and so on, but architecture wise it's gotta go with what it has.

Not at all they simply could license the CPU architecture of their own choosing. It could be MIPS or ARM or something else. The reality is they would need a general purpose CPU of some sort as GPUs come up very short for some tasks. Either way advanced programmers must be creaming at the thought of a CPU and GPU sitting so close together on a die. Especially if onboard video ram is provided for.


Of course an Intel-Nvidia merger may happen, but only if Nvidia is doing real bad, IMO, or if AMD and ATI start to get back strong into the mainstream, which I doubt.

It is a question of wills, if Nvidia wants to remain independent they will. As to AMD/ATI in the graphics realm they are actually doing very well. AMD has been very successful at dealing with the driver issues and now has some impressive hardware to compete against Nvidia.

In any event I share your enthusasim for what the future holds. I'm just not to sure which way Apple is going here. I'd love to see that iPhone/Touch Maxi though. I just hope the economy is strong enough to make it successful.


Dave

[BallmerSteve]

There you people go again, stealing MS ideas!

http://fakesteveballmer.blogspot.com

[Fishyesque]

http://gizmodo.com/5084147/umids-mini-netbook-makes-eees-look-massive

The more I see netbooks, the more I want a tablet. As in Ireland's version.

[nvidia2008]

http://gizmodo.com/5084147/umids-mini-netbook-makes-eees-look-massive

The more I see netbooks, the more I want a tablet. As in Ireland's version.

I saw the Dell Mini today. Not that it isn't impressive, but I bet Jonny Ive could easily just sht1 out a Mac "netbook" that kicks its ass.

Profane but true...

[wizard69]

I saw the Dell Mini today. Not that it isn't impressive, but I bet Jonny Ive could easily just sht1 out a Mac "netbook" that kicks its ass.

Profane but true...

I just got down to the local Apple store last week and took a quick glance at the new laptops, let me say they are even more impressive in person. So profane or not you are probably right.

In any event I do question the usability of those netbooks. This is why I see so much potential in Apples Touch technology on smaller tablets. The latest example I can give is a device that is about the size of a check.

I'm drawn to this because people carry check books around all the time in pockets, purses, jackets and the like. It is an acceptable size. More so it offers up one he'll of a lot more screen real estate than the current IPhone or Touch. Plus the concept is easy for people to experiment with, you just lay your check book on top of a Touch or Iphone to get a feel for size. Just imagine the increase in screen area especially if pixel density is kept the same. Notably it still fits into you pockets or easily on the belt and a device this size easily satisfies the Newton 2 crowd. More importantly the size remains very usable in portable mode something big laptops fail at.

Just what we need if you ask me.

Dave

[dfiler]

I remain nonplussed by of tablet computers...

<wet blanket>
It isn't that there has been a technological shortcoming preventing tablets from becoming popular. But rather it is the very shape and size of tablets that make them non-optimal for most tasks. Unless humans suddenly become a different size and have a different number of arms, tablet computing will remain a niche market.
</wet blanket>

[Daniel B]

There's a story today that Apple will release Snow Leopard in Q1 2009.

I guess that would open up the door for introducing a tablet at MWSF 09. I certanly hope so.

/Daniel

[Ireland]

There's a story today that Apple will release Snow Leopard in Q1 2009.

I guess that would open up the door for introducing a tablet at MWSF 09. I certanly hope so.

/Daniel

Tablet will be demoed at Macworld in January and release in May 2009 8-) :p

[Ireland]

dupe.

[Olternaut]

Double dupe. Mac tablet to debut at macworld then released in.......I say June. :D

[Daniel B]

Why wait that long? I don't think Apple would like to demo something half done.

Remember that the iPhone gap was due to FCC approval. Build-in HSPA (turbo 3G) would be nice, but I suspect Apple prefers to get away from having to deal with mobile ops.

/Daniel

[Ireland]

Why wait that long? I don't think Apple would like to demo something half done.

The iPhone was only half done, despite claims the 6 months gap was for the FCC stuff. *That* was Apple marketing.