Rogers says quarter million iPhones sold in Canada

[AppleInsider]

Rogers Wireless, Apple's exclusive iPhone provider in Canada, said Tuesday that September quarter sales of the touchscreen handset totaled more than a quarter million units, boosting both its subscriber count and average user revenue.

Electronista reports the telecoms company sold and activated a total of 255,000 iPhone 3Gs between the device's July 11th launch and the end of September, helping the carrier grow its net subscriber additions to 191,000 while increasing average income per user "considerably above" the previous levels thanks to added data fees.

The sheer number of iPhone subscribers put a strain on Rogers through subsidies but should result in "considerable returns" over the length of the three-year contracts, the company says, courtesy of both higher monthly plans as well as reduced turnover from customers remaining loyal to have access to the device.


Rogers' iPhone deal is also expected to have a significant impact on rivals, none of which run GSM-based networks compatible with the iPhone. The carrier said about a third of its customers are either converting from a competing provider or are new to cellphone service.

Desjardins Securities analyst Joseph MacKay believes the iPhone's affect on Rogers' rivals will become clearer in their financial disclosures later this week. He anticipates that Bell Canada's subscriber adds will fall from 137,000 in the spring to 85,000 in the summer as a result of potential customers either staying with or switching to Rogers. Telus is expected to fare better but should still see a decline of eight percent year over year to 125,000 new customers in the period.

[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=10322)

[Ireland]

Wow, imagine at their prices still that many wanted to get Rogered!

[Virgil-TB2]

I wonder if Rogers will ever realise that they could have even greater sales if they actually gave people a good deal.

[Gustav]

I wonder if Rogers will ever realise that they could have even greater sales if they actually gave people a good deal.

Have you checked their plans recently? They're perfectly reasonable compared to anyone else - especially considering nobody actually needs unlimited data and a GB or two is fine.

[Abster2core]

Wow, imagine at their prices still that many wanted to get Rogered!

And just what does that mean?

Perhaps you should do a direct comparison.

Don't forget that the US dollar is nearly 25% higher.

[Abster2core]

I wonder if Rogers will ever realise that they could have even greater sales if they actually gave people a good deal.

Vs. what exactly?

[kim kap sol]

And just what does that mean?

Perhaps you should do a direct comparison.

Don't forget that the US dollar is nearly 25% higher.

This is only recent. The US dollar has gained 25% in as little as one month. A little over a month ago, US and Can dollars were at parity. The wild market fluctuations makes this 25% meaningless...I guarantee the US dollar will plunge back to down to what it was a month ago (or worse) in the next month.

[cjsketchy]

do they still force you to sign a 3 year contract? even if monthly pricing is comparable to competitors, it's that requirement that stops me and a few others I know from getting one.

[Abster2core]

This is only recent. The US dollar has gained 25% in as little as one month. A little over a month ago, US and Can dollars were at parity. The wild market fluctuations makes this 25% meaningless...I guarantee the US dollar will plunge back to down to what it was a month ago (or worse) in the next month.

The point was that the Canadian carrier charges about the same as AT&T and now it is even less vs the downturn of the dollar.

[Abster2core]

do they still force you to sign a 3 year contract? even if monthly pricing is comparable to competitors, it's that requirement that stops me and a few others I know from getting one.

Who really cares? In three year I'll just renew the contract like I have done for the past couple of decades or so.

As for a requirement the stops you and a few others, the numbers are really low. For the most part, it is pure bull.

[kim kap sol]

The point was that the Canadian carrier charges about the same as AT&T and now it is even less vs the downturn of the dollar.

Alright...my bad. I understand what you mean now.

[joelsalt]

The point was that the Canadian carrier charges about the same as AT&T and now it is even less vs the downturn of the dollar.

in Saskatchewan, Rogers
a) is slightly more expensive
b) has worse features (no unlimited text messaging)
c) has terrible coverage (only 2 major cities and 2 major highways)

Before Apple threatened to take away the iPhone Rogers was really screwing us. A criticised business strategy by some, but quite effective.

Most A-band, provincial carriers (at least in the west) seem to offer better contract than Rogers, unless Rogers has lowered its prices recently

[wbrasington]

do they still force you to sign a 3 year contract? even if monthly pricing is comparable to competitors, it's that requirement that stops me and a few others I know from getting one.

Obviously a BS-post.
When I got my iPhone, my hope is to use it for a least three years.
If I do that, I can't switch to another carrier. So while it's pain to contract, it doesn't matter because I'm staying with the iPhone even if I upgrade. (so far I have not)
But I can't leave unless Apple opens up other carriers.
Won't anytime soon.
If that's what you say is stopping you, it's BS.

[dualie]

Have you checked their plans recently? They're perfectly reasonable compared to anyone else - especially considering nobody actually needs unlimited data and a GB or two is fine.

Say what? I have an unlimited data plan from Sprint and I regularly use 5+GB a month. 2GB is a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.

Seriously, that's a paltry amount of data. I use my data plan daily (with an EVDO card) and do little more than surf with it. I don't download large files, but I do occasionally stream some video. It's incredibly easy to use up 2GB in a single week.

[dualie]

This is only recent. The US dollar has gained 25% in as little as one month. A little over a month ago, US and Can dollars were at parity. The wild market fluctuations makes this 25% meaningless...I guarantee the US dollar will plunge back to down to what it was a month ago (or worse) in the next month.

WOW you can actually guarantee that? You must be the richest man in the world!

[andrewhaji]

The nice thing about being a wireless subscriber in Canada is that Bell and Telus, the two main competitors of Rogers, will be implementing their own HSPA network within the next 2 years. Which means, we'll be able to take our iPhones and hop over to another carrier if we're unhappy with Rogers' prices.

Then again, I'm pretty happy with what I have now. I'm on the $17.50 EPP, with $30/6GB data plan. Can't complain!

[Virgil-TB2]

Well the plan they offer first time iPhone customers is a horrific value compared to what they offer their existing customers, so you sorta have to "cheat" before you even walk in the door to get the good deal. They also move "standard" items like caller ID into "value packs" so you have to pay at least five or ten bucks a month more than you actually want or need.

Even then, the best deal they offer is $30 for 6GB of data, which is great if you actually use all that data, but most don't even come close to a single GB. They should at least have a $15 dollar option for half the data.

The cheapest price you can get away with is something just over $70 at the moment (including hidden fees and "gotchas"), which is pretty outrageous for a phone for most people.

I don't know why some cell company doesn't ever understand that people want to pay one price and forget about it. All the services Rogers (or AT&T for that matter), provide could be priced at a flat $50 (including taxes, fees, "gotchas" etc.) a month and they would still make money hand over fist.

[lfmorrison]

The nice thing about being a wireless subscriber in Canada is that Bell and Telus, the two main competitors of Rogers, will be implementing their own HSPA network within the next 2 years. Which means, we'll be able to take our iPhones and hop over to another carrier if we're unhappy with Rogers' prices.
Unless we travel to under-serviced rural areas where the iPhone 3G would fail to obtain a 3G signal. It would fall back to GSM/EDGE, which neither Bell nor Telus have any plans to support, and you'd end up paying even higher fees to roam on Rogers' network.

[winterspan]

Wow! 250K in Canada! Considering the fact that there are only about 30 million of our friendly neighbors to the north, and that Rogers is notorious for high prices, bad customer service, and mediocre coverage, I'd say this was a success! Rogers prices have actually gotten much better with the rollout of the iPhone.. Previous to that, they were charging a truly *OUTRAGEOUS* amount for web browsing on smartphones and laptop cards.. literally like one of the highest per MB charges in the world. They are no doubt still expensive, but out of the stratosphere now...

Have you checked their plans recently? They're perfectly reasonable compared to anyone else - especially considering nobody actually needs unlimited data and a GB or two is fine.

I love vast generalizations... "Nobody needs more than 640K of RAM". The fact is it depends on your situation. With the ubiquity of WiFi in many places, I'm sure the average monthly data transfer being reported by the mobile carriers is way lower than the actual total in reality, as they are only seeing the traffic that moves over their cellular network. If you are a heavy user without access to WiFi in the areas you use your phone the most, then a GB or two may seem very limited.
Also, it depends on the rollout of laptop-iPhone tethering with the different carriers. It is very easy to use 10X the amount of mobile data when you are working on a laptop compared a smartphone.

[lfmorrison]

Well the plan they offer first time iPhone customers is a horrific value compared to what they offer their existing customers, so you sorta have to "cheat" before you even walk in the door to get the good deal.
Their website says that you are at liberty to choose from any of their complete line of voice packages, and any of their "smartphone" data packages, if you don't like the special iPhone combos. Signing up for any data plan at all is optional, and not a requirement of buying the phone. The minimum you need to do to get permission to buy the phone is commit to using Rogers for voice service for a term of 3 years. Any dealer who tells you otherwise is lying. However, if you do commit to a data plan, you'll have to commit to keep it for the full term of the contract too, or pay a separate data ETF.

They also move "standard" items like caller ID into "value packs" so you have to pay at least five or ten bucks a month more than you actually want or need.
All of the major players charge extra for caller ID in Canada. It's just another way that they all try to fool you into thinking their service is cheaper than it really is. (Unless you opt for prepaid. For some inconceivable reason, they all offer caller ID as a complimentary service when you go with prepaid.)

Even then, the best deal they offer is $30 for 6GB of data, which is great if you actually use all that data, but most don't even come close to a single GB. They should at least have a $15 dollar option for half the data.
The $30/6GB offer was extended once, but it finally did expire at the end of September. Rogers will honour its contracts with current clients who've already signed up for the package, but it will not be allowing any new customers to sign up for it.

The current "extra special offer" is 8 GB for $80 per month, only available with a 3-year commitment.

As of now, $30 per month will only buy you 1GB as part of an a-la-carte smartphone plan. If you cut the data allotment in half (500 MB per month) the price is a whopping $25 per month, so when faced with a choice between them it's a really no-brainer.

Add the cheapest possible postpaid monthly voice plan ($20 per month for 200 weekday minutes, unlimited nights and weekends), for which you have to pay a one-time subsidy penalty at the time you buy the iPhone), the Caller ID ($7 per month), the System Access Fee ($6.95 per month), the 911 fee (between 50¢ and 93¢ depending which province you live in) and you'll be paying between $65 (1 GB) and $35 (no data) per month, before taxes.

If you opt for one of the iPhone special combos, you get the added benefit of visual voicemail, and you have the option of:
-$60 per month for 1 GB of data and 250 minutes of weekday talk time, unlimited evenings and weekends. That really works out to a minimum of $75 per month, before taxes, if you factor in the system access fee and the minimum possible price for caller ID.
-$75 per month for 2 GB of data and 400 minutes of weekday talk time, unlimited evenings and weekends. That really works out to a minimum of $90 per month, before taxes, if you factor in the system access fee and the minimum price for caller ID.

Depending on the province you live in, taxes will tack a minimum of an additional 5% to 15% onto all the numbers above.

[anantksundaram]

T...I guarantee the US dollar will plunge back to down to what it was a month ago (or worse) in the next month.

I assume you've put your money where your mouth is, and say, bought put options on the US$ (against the Can$)?

O/w, please stop with the useless bombast.

[kim kap sol]

I assume you've put your money where your mouth is, and say, bought put options on the US$ (against the Can$)?

O/w, please stop with the useless bombast.

Nah...I know the stock market is constantly manipulated. I don't trade (anymore. I used to have some money in stocks but removed all of it right before the crash. And by right before I mean 2 days before.) Like gambling, the house always wins. The house in this case are the insiders that never get caught ie the people that control events that create large fluctuations in the market.

I suppose you can call me an insider because I don't listen to the media or analysts and advisors.

[anantksundaram]

I love vast generalizations... "Nobody needs more than 640K of RAM". The fact is it depends on your situation.

Yeah. You're right.

There's an old Econ 101 bit of wisdom called Say's law: supply drives its own demand.

[kim kap sol]

WOW you can actually guarantee that? You must be the richest man in the world!

No, but I'm not poor because I don't piss my money away in the stock market or on alcohol, tobacco or other frivolous garbage.

Money is of no consequence when your goals are non-materialistic.

[JavaCowboy]

I have a Mac and an iPod touch and a basic Motorola cell phone with Telus, a CDMA service provider.

All my contacts are synced from my Mac AddressBook to my iTouch, as well as other info. Seeing as my data is very Mac-centric, I should be the perfect candidate for Rogers and an iPhone, right?

Wrong! While the data plan looks reasonable for a North American cell phone provider, the sticking point for me is the length of the contract. 3 years is *way* too long for me. 1 year, maybe. 2 years would be really stretching it. But 3 years in an unacceptably long commitment.

So once new GSM providers start doing business in Canada thanks to the recent wireless spectrum auction, I'm going to be stuck with 1 year left on my Rogers contract. As it stands, I have no contract with my current provider, so I can jump ship as soon as a GSM competitor shows up in Canada with more reasonable terms. After all, Rogers did not technically get an exclusive iPhone deal with Apple.

[ronster]

Unless we travel to under-serviced rural areas where the iPhone 3G would fail to obtain a 3G signal. It would fall back to GSM/EDGE, which neither Bell nor Telus have any plans to support, and you'd end up paying even higher fees to roam on Rogers' network.

The coverage by Bell in Saskatchewan is Core Digital only, so not even 1x coverage. Just Regina and Saskatoon has EVDO coverage.

Telus has EVDO / 1x towers in the area (therefore could add HSPA radios to them) .


Saskatchewan City EVDO EVDO Rev A
Regina yes yes
Saskatoon yes yes
Estevan yes yes
Kindersley yes yes
Kerrobert yes yes
Meadow Lake yes yes
Unity yes yes
Turtleford yes yes
Lashburn yes yes
Maidstone yes yes
Silver Lake yes yes
White City yes yes
Martensville yes yes



I have a Mac and an iPod touch and a basic Motorola cell phone with Telus, a CDMA service provider.

All my contacts are synced from my Mac AddressBook to my iTouch, as well as other info. Seeing as my data is very Mac-centric, I should be the perfect candidate for Rogers and an iPhone, right?

Wrong! While the data plan looks reasonable for a North American cell phone provider, the sticking point for me is the length of the contract. 3 years is *way* too long for me. 1 year, maybe. 2 years would be really stretching it. But 3 years in an unacceptably long commitment.

So once new GSM providers start doing business in Canada thanks to the recent wireless spectrum auction, I'm going to be stuck with 1 year left on my Rogers contract. As it stands, I have no contract with my current provider, so I can jump ship as soon as a GSM competitor shows up in Canada with more reasonable terms. After all, Rogers did not technically get an exclusive iPhone deal with Apple.

Let's hope Globalive or Bell / Telus can be up sooner...we are hearing end of 2009...

I agree 3 years is too long...which is probably why the iPhone 2G market is still booming.

[ecking]

The nice thing about being a wireless subscriber in Canada is that Bell and Telus, the two main competitors of Rogers, will be implementing their own HSPA network within the next 2 years. Which means, we'll be able to take our iPhones and hop over to another carrier if we're unhappy with Rogers' prices.

Really? Any links to articles about bell and telus doing that? I'm too lazy to google


or are new to cellphone service.

What, really? People who have never had a cell phone are coming out for the iphone? I find that hard to believe.

[Abster2core]

Wow! 250K in Canada! Considering the fact that there are only about 30 million of our friendly neighbors to the north, and that Rogers is notorious for high prices, bad customer service, and mediocre coverage, I'd say this was a success! Rogers prices have actually gotten much better with the rollout of the iPhone.. Previous to that, they were charging a truly *OUTRAGEOUS* amount for web browsing on smartphones and laptop cards.. literally like one of the highest per MB charges in the world. They are no doubt still expensive, but out of the stratosphere now...

I love vast generalizations... "Nobody needs more than 640K of RAM". The fact is it depends on your situation. With the ubiquity of WiFi in many places, I'm sure the average monthly data transfer being reported by the mobile carriers is way lower than the actual total in reality, as they are only seeing the traffic that moves over their cellular network. If you are a heavy user without access to WiFi in the areas you use your phone the most, then a GB or two may seem very limited.
Also, it depends on the rollout of laptop-iPhone tethering with the different carriers. It is very easy to use 10X the amount of mobile data when you are working on a laptop compared a smartphone.

"Wow! 250K in Canada!"
What the hell are you talking about?

Rogers is notorious for high prices, bad customer service, and mediocre coverage
Prove it. I bet I get faster speed than you do and I don't get charged for text messages sent to me. Oh, you don't have an iPhone do you?

I love vast generalizations... "Nobody needs more than 640K of RAM"
Obvious you do, considering that you use them consistently. And where did the 640k come from?

[Tulkas]

Rogers did everything they could to make the iphone fail in Canada . Only after the massive backlash over their insane pricing did they introduce reasonable data plans and let existing customer keep their existing voice plans. Rogers can really take no credit at all for the success of the iPhone here. They have proven this by recently chopping the commissions to their sales staff, as they realized the iPhone sold itself.

I still can't believe that there were people daft enough to think the original Rogers iPhone plans were reasonable.

[Abster2core]

Rogers did everything they could to make the iphone fail in Canada . Only after the massive backlash over their insane pricing did they introduce reasonable data plans and let existing customer keep their existing voice plans. Rogers can really take no credit at all for the success of the iPhone here. They have proven this by recently chopping the commissions to their sales staff, as they realized the iPhone sold itself.

I still can't believe that there were people daft enough to think the original Rogers iPhone plans were reasonable.

Please supply supportive evidence.

What is the difference between the original and the launch plan?

Interesting that those of us that have an iPhone are not using more than an average 200 MBs of data in a month.

My Xtreme Speedtest shows 5,296 Kbs/s via Wi-Fi and a low 2,180 via 3G. Getting better all the time.

[Tulkas]

Please supply supportive evidence.

What is the difference between the original and the launch plan?

Interesting that those of us that have an iPhone are not using more than an average 200 MBs of data in a month.

My Xtreme Speedtest shows 5,296 Kbs/s via Wi-Fi and a low 2,180 via 3G. Getting better all the time.
Evidence of what? That the original iphone plans were shit? Come on, 400 MB for $60? While you might be averaging less that 200, I have averaged 500MB per month, and I am not a heavy user. Users using internet radio or other music services daily would easily push over 500MB in a month and if they had gone with either of the lower end original plans, they would have been into massive overage charges.

You yourself are all the proof I need. In one of the original threads on Rogers and the iPhone you were defending the original iPhone plans from Rogers as reasonable and more than any user would ever need. Yet you opted for the last minute corrective plan that Rogers introduced. Nothing like backtracking. You might be averaging 200MB per month, but if you had gone with the original iPhone plans (the ones announced and at launch were the same) then the one month you went over your average, you would have been in for a world of hurt in overages.

There were no differences between the originally announced iPhone plans and the plans available at launch. There was a difference in policy, where Rogers introduced, days before launch, the optional $30/6GB plan that existing users could keep their existing plans (or new plans). Further, a month after launch they added the $100 cap on data plans. All of these are because even then realized their plans were crap, even if you cannot see this. Again, even Rogers recognized these plans were for fools and no longer offers them, though it took them a couple months to scrap them.

As more and more apps are released that chew through data, more and more people will use more data. Just because you don't does not make you representative. If Rogers had not become flexible with their plans just before the launch, I would have been paying $90/month before taxes and SAF for the services and feature I have now. Because of their change of heart I pay $56. Again, the original iPhone plans (announced and at launch) were for fools. Even you opted for the better options after defending the original options.

[Abster2core]

Evidence of what? That the original iphone plans were shit? Come on, 400 MB for $60? While you might be averaging less that 200, I have averaged 500MB per month, and I am not a heavy user. Users using internet radio or other music services daily would easily push over 500MB in a month and if they had gone with either of the lower end original plans, they would have been into massive overage charges.

You yourself are all the proof I need. In one of the original threads on Rogers and the iPhone you were defending the original iPhone plans from Rogers as reasonable and more than any user would ever need. Yet you opted for the last minute corrective plan that Rogers introduced. Nothing like backtracking. You might be averaging 200MB per month, but if you had gone with the original iPhone plans (the ones announced and at launch were the same) then the one month you went over your average, you would have been in for a world of hurt in overages.

There were no differences between the originally announced iPhone plans and the plans available at launch. There was a difference in policy, where Rogers introduced, days before launch, the optional $30/6GB plan that existing users could keep their existing plans (or new plans). Further, a month after launch they added the $100 cap on data plans. All of these are because even then realized their plans were crap, even if you cannot see this. Again, even Rogers recognized these plans were for fools and no longer offers them, though it took them a couple months to scrap them.

As more and more apps are released that chew through data, more and more people will use more data. Just because you don't does not make you representative. If Rogers had not become flexible with their plans just before the launch, I would have been paying $90/month before taxes and SAF for the services and feature I have now. Because of their change of heart I pay $56. Again, the original iPhone plans (announced and at launch) were for fools. Even you opted for the better options after defending the original options.

Over and over again, I have asked iPhone users to say what their monthly DATA USAGE is and nobody has declared significantly anymore than the average that AT&T reported, i.e., 100 MBs. Certainly, the lack of such information would indicate that DATA USAGE is not an issue not matter what plan you are on.

I took the revised plan for the simple reason why not take a gift horse in the mouth. My $56 plan on July 11, buys me high speed that so far nobody else is delivering, I have more that enough reserve to download any data that i have to, my evenings start at 6 PM, and for the first time, I can make calls that are clear and audible.

What I suggest that most of the visitors to these sites don't have an iPhone, so I guess the question is mute.

P.S. Do you understand what the word difference means?

[Tulkas]

Over and over again, I have asked iPhone users to say what their monthly DATA USAGE is and nobody has declared significantly anymore than the average that AT&T reported, i.e., 100 MBs. Certainly, the lack of such information would indicate that DATA USAGE is not an issue not matter what plan you are on.

Well, you yourself have said you average 200, so....

Also, I mentioned I have consistently hit 500MB per month with my iPhone. Reading comprehension is a great thing.

Also, as I have said, if I had signed up for the original iPhone plans, I would either have much fewer features than I had and had massive overages or would have been paying $90/month (>$100 with SAF and taxes-insane). You would have been in the same boat.

I took the revised plan for the simple reason why not take a gift horse in the mouth. My $56 plan on July 11, buys me high speed that so far nobody else is delivering, I have more that enough reserve to download any data that i have to, my evenings start at 6 PM, and for the first time, I can make calls that are clear and audible.


What I suggest that most of the visitors to these sites don't have an iPhone, so I guess the question is mute.

P.S. Do you understand what the word difference means?
Quite. And just to make thing a little simpler for you, since you appear to have difficultly: the original iPhone plans that were announce prior to the launch were identical to the ones at launch. They did, at the last minute, offer new options.. These included the $30/6GB option, that was not iPhone specific. It also included allowing users to use regular or existing voice plans.

Defend your back tracking all you like, you claimed the original plans were all anyone would ever need. Yet you could not bring yourself to take them when something better was offered. Hypocrisy is a great thing when displayed so obviously. You, in this thread claim claim nobody declares usage higher than 100MB, but mention that you yourself use 200MB. You continually say no one that is using an iPhone is going over 100 or 200 MB, but I have already told you I have and in a previous thread linked to other sites where some users also said they were going over that. Inconsistency and selective parsing must be great too.

Rogers own statement, 4 weeks after the launch, said the vast majority (91%) of users were averaging less that 200MB, but this left a significant minority that was using more than this. And any reasonable person would realize that as more data intensive apps get released and more users become familiar with what their phones are capable of, their usage will go up.

Enjoy you 6GB/$30. It was a good deal and you would have been a fool not to take it. Thanks for proving my points.

[Abster2core]

Well, you yourself have said you average 200, so....

Also, I mentioned I have consistently hit 500MB per month with my iPhone. Reading comprehension is a great thing.

Also, as I have said, if I had signed up for the original iPhone plans, I would either have much fewer features than I had and had massive overages or would have been paying $90/month (>$100 with SAF and taxes-insane). You would have been in the same boat.

Quite. And just to make thing a little simpler for you, since you appear to have difficultly: the original iPhone plans that were announce prior to the launch were identical to the ones at launch. They did, at the last minute, offer new options.. These included the $30/6GB option, that was not iPhone specific. It also included allowing users to use regular or existing voice plans.

Defend your back tracking all you like, you claimed the original plans were all anyone would ever need. Yet you could not bring yourself to take them when something better was offered. Hypocrisy is a great thing when displayed so obviously. You, in this thread claim claim nobody declares usage higher than 100MB, but mention that you yourself use 200MB. You continually say no one that is using an iPhone is going over 100 or 200 MB, but I have already told you I have and in a previous thread linked to other sites where some users also said they were going over that. Inconsistency and selective parsing must be great too.

Rogers own statement, 4 weeks after the launch, said the vast majority (91%) of users were averaging less that 200MB, but this left a significant minority that was using more than this. And any reasonable person would realize that as more data intensive apps get released and more users become familiar with what their phones are capable of, their usage will go up.

Enjoy you 6GB/$30. It was a good deal and you would have been a fool not to take it. Thanks for proving my points.

Just how was I back tracking. Rogers offered a plan that allowed me to get an iPhone for $199 and add a data plan to use my existing family plan. Why would I give up earlier evening option?

Why should I have to pay more just to satisfy the "significant minority that was using more than this?"

Why would I want to pay 50% more than I need realizing that the average iPhone customer is paying nearly $100US a month for their service.

Just what data intensive apps are you talking about? Do you realize that you can basically use only one app at a time and as Apple has mandated, data intensive apps won't be allowed. And as everybody else realizes that Wi-Fi is significantly faster and it is free. Just why wouldn't any reasonable person take advantage of it?

[Maury Markowitz]

Their website says that you are at liberty to choose from any of their complete line of voice packages, and any of their "smartphone" data packages, if you don't like the special iPhone combos. Signing up for any data plan at all is optional, and not a requirement of buying the phone. The minimum you need to do to get permission to buy the phone is commit to using Rogers for voice service for a term of 3 years. Any dealer who tells you otherwise is lying.

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The iPhone puchase plan is extremely clear on this point, you MUST:

1) purchase a data plan
2) purchase a voice plan that is $30 a month or more

This was explained to me, in depth, by two different Rogers account managers. If you want to break either of these criterion after the fact there's a $50 dollar penalty.


(Unless you opt for prepaid. For some inconceivable reason, they all offer caller ID as a complimentary service when you go with prepaid.)

And free voicemail too. Clearly the cost of providing contract service isn't 100% greater than pay-as-you-go, but that's what they charge you.


If you cut the data allotment in half (500 MB per month) the price is a whopping $25 per month, so when faced with a choice between them it's a really no-brainer.

I've used 400 MB since I got my phone on day 1 - lots of WiFi though. So for me, the $25 a month plan is fantastic. But is that 3G? Many of the plans are, or WERE, limited to EDGE.

Maury

[Maury Markowitz]

These sales numbers are terrible. Sales in the US were 3 million on the first weekend, and another 2 or 3 since then. There is over 10% of the US population in Canada, so if we just baseline that, we should have had at least half a million sold.

Maury

[Tulkas]

Just how was I back tracking. Rogers offered a plan that allowed me to get an iPhone for $199 and add a data plan to use my existing family plan. Why would I give up earlier evening option?

BINGO! I think you finally get it...maybe not. Your question is dead on-why would you give up features and pay more? Why would you indeed. Expect the original iPhone plans that you praised would have forced you to do so.


Why should I have to pay more just to satisfy the "significant minority that was using more than this?"

What are you talking about? You are paying less because this significant minority proved to Rogers that some users do need more than the pittance they were originally doling out.


Why would I want to pay 50% more than I need realizing that the average iPhone customer is paying nearly $100US a month for their service.

If you have gone with your much loved original iPhone plans you would have been paying almost 100% more than you are now. Guess they were such a good deal, hmm? Just can't admit that can you? You couldn't bring yourself to man up and take the plans you said were more than you would need and reasonably priced, but instead you chickened out and went with a data option that gives you 60x when you claim is needed. Any why? Wait for it. Wait for it.....because it wasn't such a good deal and they offered a better option.


Just what data intensive apps are you talking about?


Um...any music service is data intensive.


Do you realize that you can basically use only one app at a time and as Apple has mandated, data intensive apps won't be allowed.

Umm what are you talking? That is just funny.

Apple has not mandated any such thing. If they had, you wouldn't have music services. You wouldn't even have Mail or Safari as those can be data intensive. Maps with GPS, Facebook photo browsing, YouTube. All data intensive. Maybe you are talking about tethering? Yes, Apple appears to have blocked tethering apps. But, since Rogers allows tethering, any jailbroken phone can tether just fine and chew through even more data.


And as everybody else realizes that Wi-Fi is significantly faster and it is free. Just why wouldn't any reasonable person take advantage of it?

Ummm...Ever try using Wifi when not at a hotspot? Like when you are in a store? Or taking a walk? Or on the bus? Or at the mall? Or anywhere else that doesn't have Wifi?

When I take my son out for a walk and want to have music for the walk, I will just stream my music from my Mac or from one of the internet radio stations. This uses lot of data. When I am out or town and need to pull over to use the GPS , this can use a fair amount of data. When I am out of the house and large emails come in, this can use a lot of data.

I use Wifi whenever possible. However, because I do not chain myself to my house and office, there are lots of times where using data means using 3G (when Rogers is not having more network issues)

[Gustav]

Say what? I have an unlimited data plan from Sprint and I regularly use 5+GB a month. 2GB is a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.

Seriously, that's a paltry amount of data. I use my data plan daily (with an EVDO card) and do little more than surf with it. I don't download large files, but I do occasionally stream some video. It's incredibly easy to use up 2GB in a single week.

EVDO card? You are talking about using a computer from Sprint, not an iPhone - Rogers has computer plan too that is not related to this. I'm talking about on-phone usage. It's pretty hard to hit 6GB unless you really try. I agree there are some heavy users out there, but they're not the norm.

[Gustav]

Well the plan they offer first time iPhone customers is a horrific value compared to what they offer their existing customers, so you sorta have to "cheat" before you even walk in the door to get the good deal.

No true. First time customers can get different plans too. Maybe your local sales guy doesn't want to sell those to you, but you are free to call up Rogers and ask for a separate voice and data plan other than the packages on their web site.
They also move "standard" items like caller ID into "value packs" so you have to pay at least five or ten bucks a month more than you actually want or need.

That is false. You can still get caller ID separately if you choose.

Even then, the best deal they offer is $30 for 6GB of data, which is great if you actually use all that data, but most don't even come close to a single GB. They should at least have a $15 dollar option for half the data.

They have a cheaper plan. But cost structures aren't necessarily linear. Don't expect half the data to be half the cost.

The cheapest price you can get away with is something just over $70 at the moment (including hidden fees and "gotchas"), which is pretty outrageous for a phone for most people.

That is false. You can get separate voice and data plans that are cheaper. Regardless, AT&T charges $70 for their entry level all-in-one plan. Why do you think it should be cheaper?

I don't know why some cell company doesn't ever understand that people want to pay one price and forget about it. All the services Rogers (or AT&T for that matter), provide could be priced at a flat $50 (including taxes, fees, "gotchas" etc.) a month and they would still make money hand over fist.

That fact that no-one has done this should tell you something. They are actually in the business and know how much it costs to provide service and chose not to. What does that tell you?

[Gustav]

Also, it depends on the rollout of laptop-iPhone tethering with the different carriers. It is very easy to use 10X the amount of mobile data when you are working on a laptop compared a smartphone.

That I agree with. But does anyone think unlimited wireless Internet should be cheaper than your home Internet connection? Rogers sells a computer wireless solution separately from their cell phones for $45/month for 30GB. Seems reasonable to me.

[Tulkas]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The iPhone puchase plan is extremely clear on this point, you MUST:

1) purchase a data plan
2) purchase a voice plan that is $30 a month or more

This was explained to me, in depth, by two different Rogers account managers. If you want to break either of these criterion after the fact there's a $50 dollar penalty.


Maury
I don't think you are fully correct here. You are right, that if your voice plan portion was not $30+, then you were charged an additional $50. However, the the data plan portion was 100% optional. Go to HowardForums sometime and browse the Rogers/Fido forums. There you will find many posts from Rogers employees that the data portion was optional. There are reports that there are sales people, stores and managers that were telling customers the data portion was mandatory because the salesperson and store received 0 commission for selling an iPhone without data.

[lfmorrison]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong. The iPhone puchase plan is extremely clear on this point, you MUST:

1) purchase a data plan
2) purchase a voice plan that is $30 a month or more

This was explained to me, in depth, by two different Rogers account managers. If you want to break either of these criterion after the fact there's a $50 dollar penalty.
Interesting. Looks like things have changed from the last time I looked into it.

Google tells me this (http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/70603-iphone-without-plan.html#post745129) (dated October 24):
There was a rule put in place about a month ago that says CSRs cannot sell a phone without data unless they have a store manager's approval of it first. In a lot of cases the manager simply says no. This was born out of the massive problems Rogers/Fido was having with the $2000 data bills people were getting.

When I went to purchase mine (I have a phone with only voice plan) they said it went in effect that thursday, this was a friday, so I went over to a Wireless Wave store and the guy set me up without problems.

So to restate, it is now ROGERS/FIDO POLICY to not sell without data unless store manager have given approval. If (s)he does give approval then you are fine. If not try a Wireless Wave or a Booth etc, type store because this policy does not apply to them.

DO NOT even turn the phone on until data has been blocked. Just the start up of the phone cost me $3 in data charges and I didn't even open one App.

Just call into Rogers/Fido and tell them to completely block all data. They have an entire department set up for iPhones.

Good luck.

[Tulkas]

Interesting. Looks like things have changed from the last time I looked into it.

Google tells me this (http://www.ehmac.ca/ipod-itunes-iphone-apple-tv/70603-iphone-without-plan.html#post745129) (dated October 24):

This is still current policy. You can buy the iPhone without data. You wouldn't be smart to do so, but you can do it. It was mainly sketchy sales people and managers that were telling customers they could not, so they could up their commissions.

[Abster2core]

When I take my son out for a walk and want to have music for the walk, I will just stream my music from my Mac or from one of the internet radio stations. This uses lot of data. When I am out or town and need to pull over to use the GPS , this can use a fair amount of data. When I am out of the house and large emails come in, this can use a lot of data.

I use Wifi whenever possible. However, because I do not chain myself to my house and office, there are lots of times where using data means using 3G (when Rogers is not having more network issues)

No it doesn't. Check your data usage. Worried about large emails…do you know how to set your preferences. Why the hell would you want to stream your music from your Mac. You are kidding. Aren't you?

Considering that nobody is complaining anywhere in the world about limited data plans and the iPhone satisfaction surveys are in the 80-90% level, you arguments are ludicrous.

[Tulkas]

No it doesn't.

No what doesn't? Not having access to wifi doesn't mean having to use 3G for data? What, you have your own data fairy that provides data when you don't have wifi? Me? I use 3G for that. That what I pay for.

If you only use data when on Wifi and never 3G, why did you opt to pay an additional $30 a month? Because you use 3G when Wifi isn't available. Simple.


Check your data usage. Worried about large emails…do you know how to set your preferences.


Again, what the hell are you talking about? I am going to adjust my preferences to limit my data usage? If I get large emails, I want to read them. Period. Just because you are willing to adjust the way you use your iPhone to lower your data usage, doesn't mean I would want to.


Why the hell would you want to stream your music from your Mac. You are kidding. Aren't you?

Um, are you being intentionally simple? Please tell me you are, because otherwise...

yes, I stream from my Mac. Many people do. That is why SimplifyMedia is one of the top iPhone apps. In fact, and this might surprise you, there will be people in this world that use their iPhone in ways that are different than you. Some might even use it for data intensive apps and even on 3G :wow:


Considering that nobody is complaining anywhere in the world about limited data plans and the iPhone satisfaction surveys are in the 80-90% level, you arguments are ludicrous.
Then why didn't you opt for the original canned iPhone plans? because something better came along, that is why. Your arguments aren't just ludicrous, they are factually inaccurate. You claim no one uses more than 100MB, but that is obviously wrong (your own usage proving otherwise). You claim Apple banned data intensive apps. That is just beyond stupid, it can only be proof of overt dishonesty. You once claimed there were no internet radio apps at the Canadian AppStore too, but that was just made up shit as well.

And yeah, in case you missed it, there was a hell of a lot of people complaining about thelimited iPhone data plans Rogers offered. That is why they offered the $30/6GB. Even you were not stupid enough to follow your own advice and take one of those original plans.

And iPhone satisfaction surveys hardly show satisfaction with Rogers. Rogers doesn't make the iPhone. Rogers approval ratings are hardly stellar.

[Abster2core]

You might be averaging 200MB per month…

Now I get it. You don't know how to read. I never said that.

[Tulkas]

Now I get it. You don't know how to read. I never said that.
No, I think you have ably and repeatedly demonstrated that you truly do not get it.

[Tulkas]

Actually, not that it makes a difference, but let's correct the statement: You might me averaging less than 200MB.

hey look, your points are still dishonest, incorrect, made up and just wrong. It really made no difference.

Again, enjoy your $30/6GB plan. Your one smart move was to go with that instead of your much praised original plans. You were smart to go back on your convictions. Don't feel bad about it invaliding any points you might have had. Don't feel back about contradicting yourself between posts. Certainly don't feel the need to make up more 'facts'. I know you have said you are a scientist or researcher, so hopefully you are more honest in your work than you are here.