Apple's iPod touch sales double, nearly on par with iPhone

[AppleInsider]

Sales of Apple's iPod touch, once discounted as a pricey niche product, have more than doubled over the past 12 months to rates nearly in line with the iPhone, fueled by an explosion of attractive gaming titles on the App Store that are boosting overall multi-touch device shipments into Nintendo DS territory.

Though largely overlooked in light of repeated cookie-cutter comments on the netbook space, Apple for the second time in as many months Wednesday offered data sufficient for breaking out sales of its touch-screen iPod, something it has historically avoided in an effort to limit competitors' views of its success.

Specifically, Apple said last month that it ended 2008 with 30 million multi-touch users, 17 million of which were iPhone owners, and therefore 13 million of which were iPod touch users. During the first quarter of 2009, that multi-touch audience swelled to 37 million units, according to Apple interim chief Tim Cook, driving surprising growth of a novelty product during a tough macro environment and further distancing Apple from any potential competitors.

"[O]ne of the keys behind the growth of the iPod this quarter despite the economic environment was that the iPod Touch more than doubled year-over-year," he said. "So, it was a tremendous result and as Peter [Oppenheimer] mentioned earlier in his remarks, the sum of iPhone plus iPod Touch is now about 37 million units and so, it provides an enormous platform for developers to develop on and with [...] our recent SDK changes the developers are working on now, I think it just unleashes a whole new level of innovation that keeps Apple years ahead of everyone else."

Apple reported shipping 3.79 million iPhones during the quarter, meaning it also sold a comparable 3.21 million iPod touches when the iPhone sales data is culled from the reported 7 million increase in multi-touch users. The jump helped contribute to a near $3 sequential rise in iPod average selling prices but it more importantly puts Apple on a pace to grow its multi-touch audience by nearly 30 million users this year alone, assuming the unlikely scenario that sales of iPhone sales remain flat following the introduction of new models this spring.

Even more significant may be Apple's emergence as a leader in portable gaming, with quarterly multi-touch device sales now having nearly caught up with those of Nintendo DS, the market leader. Nintendo reported selling 31.43 million DS series handhelds during the 2008 calendar year, or an average of 7.86 million units per quarter compared to Apple's 7 million handhelds reported in its most recent quarter.



The appeal of the iPod touch as a gaming device has admittedly caught industry watchers by surprise, some of which failed to recognize the advent of the App Store as a catalyst that would help drive sales of multi-touch handhelds and not the other way around.

"We did not appreciate what role the [iPod] touch would play when Apple introduced it in September 2007," said Needham & Co. analyst Charles Wolf. "But it’s now clear that the touch has emerged as a viable game-playing platform."

Responding to Apple's second-quarter earnings, Wolf noted that the App Store closely resembles the PC paradigm, by which hardware sales are driving software sales. However, he added that "the one obvious exception is the iPod touch."

"We believe software applications are beginning to drive sales of the [iPod] touch, especially among game-addicted younger people," he said.

Apple, which will sell its 1 billionth App Store application later this afternoon, says a third of the 35,000 applications on the digital download store are games, meaning it will have sold over 300 million multi-touch games in approximately 9 months. Though its unclear how many DS titles have been sold since the platform launched in 2004, Nintendo did say last month that 83 titles had each surpassed the 1 million mark, with 7 games exceeding the 10 million mark.[c][ View this article at AppleInsider.com ] (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=11198)

[melgross]

Give it time.

[Booga]

With all the discussion over tiered iPhone hardware devices, it's now interesting to ask if Apple's going to release multiple versions of the iPod Touch at various price points-- differentiated by more than their GB capacity (which for an app-store-centric user doesn't provide a lot of utility.)

On the other hand, maybe it homogenity is its strength.

[johnmcboston]

I'm curious about the number of touches owned by iphone users. Maybe for other family members? or to play games and now drain the iphone battery??

[tundraboy]

I don't know if they foresaw it or not, but it was a stroke of genius on Apple's part to install the same OS on the iPhone and iPod touch. Nokia, MS, Google, RIMM & Palm may have something to put up against the iPhone in the smartphone space but they have nothing to compete with the iPod Touch. With two sources for apps demand, and their huge head start, it's getting harder and harder to see how anyone else's app store can catch up with Apple's. Maybe Nokia because of their dominance outside the U.S. But they really haven't shown any prowess in software.

And if there's still any doubt out there, we know where the PMP business is headed now and Zune is dead.

[GTL215]

I'm waiting for techstud to somehow disparage the very apple products he claims to like.

[iReality85]

Sales of Apple's iPod touch, once discounted as a pricey niche product, have more than doubled over the past 12 months to rates nearly in line with the iPhone, fueled by an explosion of attractive gaming titles on the App Store that are boosting overall multi-touch device shipments into Nintendo DS territory.

Even more significant may be Apple's emergence as a leader in portable gaming, with quarterly multi-touch device sales now having nearly caught up with those of Nintendo DS, the market leader. Nintendo reported selling 31.43 million DS series handhelds during the 2008 calendar year, or an average of 7.86 million units per quarter compared to Apple's 7 million handhelds reported in its most recent quarter.

I believe this is a slightly skewed comparison, given that the iPhone/iPod Touch and Nintendo DS are aimed at catering towards principally different market segments. The tone of this article suggests that the boon in Apple's sales are due to consumers being strictly interested in gaming. iPhone users buy the iPhone because it is a phone, first and foremost. I'm willing to wager that iPod Touch owners bought the device for its music playing abilities, not gaming (although the fact that you can game on it is a plus). Nintendo DS owners own one for the reason that it is a dedicated gaming machine. This article is comparing the sales of apples (no pun intended) to sales of oranges.

A more accurate reading would be for Apple to query those 1st quarter customers and ask them for what purpose did they purchase an iPod Touch. The numbers presented in this article are meaningless without knowing the customers' intent on using the device.

[DimMok]

Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....

One can only take so much of Farting, Tic Tac Toe, X Ray, and the countless other crapware.....

SuperMonkey Ball was the start, but havent seen much after that.

Whats the problem?

[DimMok]

Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....

One can only take so much of Farting, Tic Tac Toe, X Ray, and the countless other crapware.....

SuperMonkey Ball was the start, but havent seen much after that.

Whats the problem?

[hmurchison]

I don't know if they foresaw it or not, but it was a stroke of genius on Apple's part to install the same OS on the iPhone and iPod touch. Nokia, MS, Google, RIMM & Palm may have something to put up against the iPhone in the smartphone space but they have nothing to compete with the iPod Touch. With two sources for apps demand, and their huge head start, it's getting harder and harder to see how anyone else's app store can catch up with Apple's. Maybe Nokia because of their dominance outside the U.S. But they really haven't shown any prowess in software.

And if there's still any doubt out there, we know where the PMP business is headed now and Zune is dead.

+1

I was set to get a iPhone this year but decided that it wouldn't be good to have my gf on Sprint and me on ATT.

So instead we're all going to get iPod Touches (me, lady and 10 yr old)
In fact those who don't think the iPod Touch is a threat to the DS.

Our two children have DS (my son and her daughter) neither is getting a new DS when their current one breaks. The DS is cheaper to get into but good games are 5x what a games on the app store run. Do the math it's an easy decision IMO.

[GTL215]

with the new 3.0 software allowing USB attachments, gaming on the iPod Touch (and iPhone, obviously) is going to explode...what constantly pops into my mind is the following: you know the Wii steering wheels you put the Wii-mote inside? Well, imagine the exact same thing but you put the Touch inside, neatly fitting into a 30-pin connector. You can then "steer" via the accelerometer and press action buttons on the wheel which are input into the Touch via the connector....pretty slick...obviously that's just one idea

edit: also, toss in some wi-fi multi-player for extra fun

[ltcommander.data]

The iPhone/iPod Touch still has a ways to go to threaten the DS, but it's already coming up against the PSP.

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/090213e.html

Sony just announced in February that they had reached 50 million lifetime PSP sales and that is since December 2004. In less than 2 years, iPhone and iPod Touch had reached 37 million. 7 million added in the last quarter. I wouldn't be surprised if the iPhone/Touch platform overtakes the PSP within a year.

Of course, hardware wise the iPhone/Touch and PSP aren't directly competing, but there would definitely be overlap. iPhone 3rd gen will just bring things ever closer technically.

[dreyfus2]

... and in related news: Jim Goldman reports that Abramsky (RBC) has slightly adjusted AAPL target to 165 USD (from 70 and sell in the last quarter) after the earnings call :lol: Consider him touched.

[psychodoughboy]

Cute putting that Final Fantasy X (PS2 game) in the iPod Touch vs. DS image. The iPod Touch does not have the horsepower to run that game; nor does any other existing phone or handheld.

[solipsism]

I'm curious about the number of touches owned by iphone users. Maybe for other family members?
I have an iPhone, purchased two 8GB Touches for my niece and nephew last year, mainly for gaming. My brother, their father bought himself a 16GB version, but will go to the iPhone come this summer. His wife will probably get an iPhone too.


I don't know if they foresaw it or not, but it was a stroke of genius on Apple's part to install the same OS on the iPhone and iPod touch. Nokia, MS, Google, RIMM & Palm may have something to put up against the iPhone in the smartphone space but they have nothing to compete with the iPod Touch. With two sources for apps demand, and their huge head start, it's getting harder and harder to see how anyone else's app store can catch up with Apple's. Maybe Nokia because of their dominance outside the U.S. But they really haven't shown any prowess in software.

And if there's still any doubt out there, we know where the PMP business is headed now and Zune is dead.
First off, I don't think the Zune is dead. It's a good product since their v2 firmware and it competes well within the non-iPod PMPs.

As for your first paragraph, I think Apple did foresee it. There are many reasons why people wouldn't want a cellphone as their PMP at this time. I think the Touch is great entry into the the OS category for those that are too young to have cell phones, under contract, can't use AT&T and/or just don't want the data fees right now but allowing you to move into an iPhone with your apps when you are ready.

For the other handset vendors to copy Apple's store they would have to create an ecosystem that would mean using a single sized display and starting off very simple. Without scraping their entire business model and only having a single device or two out of dozens trying to copy Apple it won't work. The App Store and the SDK as complex as they are would just be too complex if using multiple screen sizes and different input methods.

[Alphaman]

+1

I was set to get a iPhone this year but decided that it wouldn't be good to have my gf on Sprint and me on ATT.

Similar -- I looked into getting iPhones for both my kids and myself, but rather than leave Verizon, I got my son a Touch. I just upgraded my car's head unit to dock an iPod and will get myself a Touch once they release a 64Gig version.

And we're all sticking with Verizon for phone service. I would not be surprised if this "anti-AT&T" effect was prominent amongst Touch users, as I know of several friends who have opted not to go to the dark side. ;)

[Capnbob]

Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....

One can only take so much of Farting, Tic Tac Toe, X Ray, and the countless other crapware.....

SuperMonkey Ball was the start, but havent seen much after that.

Whats the problem?

I used to be of the same opinion but decided to download a few games in the $1-3 range and have found several to be quite brilliant - huge timesinks!! In particular Flightcontrol and iShoot are personal faves. I was also impressed by iDracula.
I might branch out into more expensive games soon (or wait til I get a more powerful device after June) but I can attest that casual gaming is pretty darn good on the iPhone/iTouch platform.

At 99c for many of them, it doesn't hurt to buy 10 and see what is any good.

[iVlad]

I always felt like DSi was for kids. When ever I look in the DS section of games its always some puppies and drawing stuff. I hope iPod Touch will gain momentum with really good games like Rolando etc. =)

[Cubert]

"We did not appreciate what role the [iPod] touch would play when Apple introduced it in September 2007," said Needham & Co. analyst Charles Wolf. "But it’s now clear that the touch has emerged as a viable game-playing platform."

I'm always amazed at how these supposed analysts don't have the forethought to realize how much of a game changer things like the App Store are. They are just now catching up to people like us who follow all things Apple.

(I realize that the quote above refers to the pre-App Store timeframe, but it is a good example of what I am saying)

[GTL215]

I always felt like DSi was for kids. When ever I look in the DS section of games its always some puppies and drawing stuff. I hope iPod Touch will gain momentum with really good games like Rolando etc. =)

to be fair, Nintendo has always focused on younger demographics.

[hmurchison]

Similar -- I looked into getting iPhones for both my kids and myself, but rather than leave Verizon, I got my son a Touch. I just upgraded my car's head unit to dock an iPod and will get myself a Touch once they release a 64Gig version.

And we're all sticking with Verizon for phone service. I would not be surprised if this "anti-AT&T" effect was prominent amongst Touch users, as I know of several friends who have opted not to go to the dark side. ;)

Yup...AT&T is a big barrier. Their service isn't bad here in WA but i'm locked into sprint until 2010 Q4. I may as well get a Touch and at least take advantage of the apps and then investigate the costs of migrating from Sprint to AT Terror.

Oh yeah will a iPod Touch be GPS enabled?

[Booga]

First off, I don't think the Zune is dead. It's a good product since their v2 firmware and it competes well within the non-iPod PMPs.

In order to "compete" you've got to compare the products on their own merits, not assuming that Microsoft is going to continue to shovel Office and Windows dollars into Zune development. That that business unit has lost billions of dollars since inception while Apple has earned billions of dollars at the same time shows how they compete, I think.

[melgross]

Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....

One can only take so much of Farting, Tic Tac Toe, X Ray, and the countless other crapware.....

SuperMonkey Ball was the start, but havent seen much after that.

Whats the problem?

You haven't looked. There's plenty.

[solipsism]

Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....
As the titles grow up the iPhone/Touch takes an advantage.

Of course, hardware wise the iPhone/Touch and PSP aren't directly competing, but there would definitely be overlap. iPhone 3rd gen will just bring things ever closer technically.
They aren't, but I think there will be plenty of people who will want a cellphone and/or an iPod and think "I can save money and get a more power gaming platform by getting an iPhone/Touch." As I've stated before, I think that Sony and Nintendo dropped the ball by not using their expertise to make their handheld gaming devices decent PMPs, too.

Cute putting that Final Fantasy X (PS2 game) in the iPod Touch vs. DS image. The iPod Touch does not have the horsepower to run that game; nor does any other existing phone or handheld.
I have no idea how the <300MHz Emotion Engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotion_Engine) used in the PS2 relates to the ARM CPU and GPU in the current Touch, but that CPU is a decade old and the next Touch will probably be able to push 720p video. If they can't play some PS2 games well now I don't think it will be too many HW revisions before they will be. But would Sony even allow their games to be ported to iPhone OS X and sold in the App Store. I don't think so, at least not a long time.• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2#Technical_specifications

[camroidv27]

Sorry for the wait- I had to eat lunch.
What do you mean? I am absolutely crazy about my iPod Touch and rate is as one of the best Apple products currently on the market - second only to the 17 inch matte MacBook Pro. I've always said -give everything the iPhone has without an AT&T phone and I'm in. I skipped the 1st gen and glad I waited.
And I'm proud that it's lived up to all my expectations and more; and is selling as I predicted 2 days ago. ;)
It literally has driven Apple's quarter beyond expectations. :D

My favorite App- AirMouse.

For me, the iPod Touch is the only Apple product I will consider purchasing. A very nicely done piece of hardware. I really hope they do unlock bluetooth in 3.0. I think the iPod Touch has sold well to those who wanted the iPhone, but won't switch to AT&T. I for one am in that category. Unlock bluetooth, and you have a killer little machine given you can tether it to your existing cell phone... think of the possibilities!

[gundamzro]

I believe this is a slightly skewed comparison, given that the iPhone/iPod Touch and Nintendo DS are aimed at catering towards principally different market segments. The tone of this article suggests that the boon in Apple's sales are due to consumers being strictly interested in gaming. iPhone users buy the iPhone because it is a phone, first and foremost. I'm willing to wager that iPod Touch owners bought the device for its music playing abilities, not gaming (although the fact that you can game on it is a plus). Nintendo DS owners own one for the reason that it is a dedicated gaming machine. This article is comparing the sales of apples (no pun intended) to sales of oranges.

A more accurate reading would be for Apple to query those 1st quarter customers and ask them for what purpose did they purchase an iPod Touch. The numbers presented in this article are meaningless without knowing the customers' intent on using the device.

its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,

[Johnny Mozzarella]

Yup...AT&T is a big barrier. Their service isn't bad here in WA but i'm locked into sprint until 2010 Q4. I may as well get a Touch and at least take advantage of the apps and then investigate the costs of migrating from Sprint to AT Terror.

Oh yeah will a iPod Touch be GPS enabled?

I'm pretty sure the next iPod Touch will have GPS and a camera.

These components would add a few dollars to the cost of the device but Apple would more than likely make it back on the increased sales of apps that use the GPS and camera.

[dreyfus2]

to be fair, Nintendo has always focused on younger demographics.

I hate it when people poke fun at my corporate gameboy :mad:

[DimMok]

You haven't looked. There's plenty.

Name one......And Im talking groundbreaking, great graphics/sound.....like Super Monkey.
I seriously would love to purchase these types of games for my daughters for my Iphone.

I sold there old DS's....was thinking of the new DSI...but will wait for the new touches..hopefully with a camera built in. That would be sweet. That seems to be the feature they really want. For some reason....

[Maestro64]

What apple does, that most companies do not do, they do not come out ahead of time and tell the market how they going to crush the competition and how their business model is better than everyone elses.

They just do it, do not talk about they put thing in place a head of time to lay the ground work for future product and test the waters to too how it should be done.

Think about this widgets, you do not hear much about them, but apple put this in place years before the iphone and the app store this was the model to set the whole concept of small app that can be used on a phone.

Another example is itune, the software for organizing your songs came first then came the Ipod, then a music store...

Look at a bunch of things apple is doing and think about how those ideas can be extended. The next thing it apple TV there are still testing those waters and learning, once the figure it out you will see them going after the set top box market next.

Apple has a long term roadmaps of a whole line of products and service and they realize whar needs to be there first and what enables what.

[solipsism]

its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,

The problem is that they are late to the party with both rich PMP functions and with OTA digital gaming DLs with the new DSi. But Nintendo is, I believe, the largest company in Japan have weathered drops in sales and user interest many times before so I don't doubt that they will be able to enter the race and excel at some time in the future.

[kim kap sol]

Name one......

Zen Bound, Edge, Rolando, iVampire, to name four.

Fantastic graphics and sound.

[melgross]

its not an unfair comparison. the new ds has features other than just gaming. taking pictures, recording ect, ect, one could make the argument that it is going the way the ipod and incorporating functions that are not solely based on gaming. it goes without mentioning that the ipod touch has a multitude of non gaming apps. calculator, internet, calendar ect, ect,

One problem that Nintendo has is price. This is still a game machine mostly aimed at those below 15. Actually, below 12.

Because of that, they have to be careful in adding features that parents might find objectionable. I read that the camera was one thing that Nintendo agonized over because of the possible "sexting" scandals going on right now.

In addition, some features cost too much to add to a low priced device right now. Possibly two years from now. If the iPhone/iTouch had little memory, as the DS has, their prices would be much lower as well. That large internal memory is one thing that makes these devices such good game machines. My daughter used to carry around this pouch with her little game cartridges for the DS. With her iPhone, they're all in the phone. Much better.

The DS is also much more cheaply built, as kids lose and break them.

So far, the markets are very different. But as I've seen iPhone usage in my daughter's HS school over the past two years explode, and I'm seeing more of them in younger kids hands now that the price is $199, I do expect the devices to take over more of Nintendo's territory.

I think that as the phone/PDA killed the PDA market, the phone/game machine will kill the handheld game machine market. It actually costs less to have the one unit, considering that almost everyone will end up with phone plans that include data and texting.

The iTouch is in an interesting position here in the US.

As we see here, it's possible that a lot of the sales are to people who don't want to change carriers. What will happen when those people can buy an unlocked iPhone and put it on Verizon's AT&T compatible network sometime in 2010? Or better yet, can buy one from Verizon?

Both AT&T and Apple are stating that they are happy with their current deal, but that could be just for show. Behind the scenes, there's likely much frantic negotiating going on.

[Virgil-TB2]

Cute putting that Final Fantasy X (PS2 game) in the iPod Touch vs. DS image. The iPod Touch does not have the horsepower to run that game; nor does any other existing phone or handheld.I'm not sure you are right about that.

There are PS2 games that have been ported to the iPod touch that seem identical to me in terms of graphics and performance. I don't see why Final Fantasy X would be any different. In any case the new version (due out within a month or two), seems like it will be orders of magnitude faster and more capable, so the point would become moot very soon.

[melgross]

Name one......And Im talking groundbreaking, great graphics/sound.....like Super Monkey.
I seriously would love to purchase these types of games for my daughters for my Iphone.

I sold there old DS's....was thinking of the new DSI...but will wait for the new touches..hopefully with a camera built in. That would be sweet. That seems to be the feature they really want. For some reason....

Groundbreaking?

There are no groundbreaking games for computers, OR consoles either. Hasn't been for years. Monkeyball wasn't groundbreaking either, just a VERY good port.

If you like a few games, but don't like others, then whatever I mention will have you say that they don't matter. But that would be just to you. I happen to really like Crash Bandicoot. You may not. I get a kick out of Bugdom 2, you may not.

You can look through Macworld's game reviews. You will find some very good games there, some pretty innovative.

http://www.macworld.com/apps/index.html?cat=Games

I also enjoy using Oregon Trail, which my daughter and all of her iPhone toting friends have bought (as did my wife).

A recent game I bought is Let's Golf, which is great.

My daughter is a fan of the Metal Gear Solid games, so she bought MGST recently, and likes it.

There's a lot more like these, with many more coming out all the time.

If you're going to simply dismiss them, I can only think that's because you want to.

[randythot]

I don't know if they foresaw it or not, but it was a stroke of genius on Apple's part to install the same OS on the iPhone and iPod touch. Nokia, MS, Google, RIMM & Palm may have something to put up against the iPhone in the smartphone space but they have nothing to compete with the iPod Touch. With two sources for apps demand, and their huge head start, it's getting harder and harder to see how anyone else's app store can catch up with Apple's. Maybe Nokia because of their dominance outside the U.S. But they really haven't shown any prowess in software.

And if there's still any doubt out there, we know where the PMP business is headed now and Zune is dead.

Great insight about the synergy of the iPod and iPhone platforms with gaming. When the touch came out, Apple foresaw the game market, according to the keynote. I believe it was AI that had a really nice comparison of portable gaming devices, and how the iPhone and iPod Touch blew away competitors on the hardware end. So, the real competition for Apple was themselves, if they screwed up the software.

That said, I can't believe anyone that would say Apple could forecast the success of the App Store. I'm pretty sure that blew them away! It seems they were confident it would succeed, but not at this level. I know people have their gripes about the App Store, but no one comes close.

Regarding your stroke of genius, Apple scaling and tailoring the OS with touch interface and portable size OS has further implications. Apple is so well positioned, even the market doesn't realize how much this will help them expand and leverage their base. Halo effect was a one-way phenomenon. Now, there is a growing cross-fertilization between customer segments within Apple's product line. A tablet/netbook yet to be announced will not only plug a gap in their product line, but also add to this if conceived properly.

[stompy]

I'm pretty sure the next iPod Touch will have GPS and a camera.

+1 on the GPS. (Camera would be nice, but the GPS is my biggest wish.)

[melgross]

Sorry but iTunes is a derivative of SoundJam- not created by Apple but bought by Apple.
Same thing with CoverFlow. However, Apple has integrated all these things seamlessly.

iTunes is far more than what SoundJam ever was. I had SoundJam, and it was good for its time. But the very first Apple version was already much better.

Apple has evolved the product to horizons that are vastly beyond what the original product was capable of.

[Postulant]

*snip*

Sikalosoft pushed the game as a way for users annoyed by real-life bawling babies to virtually put an end to the noise -- permanently.

"Babies are everywhere you don't want them to be! They're always distracting you from preparing for that big presentation at work with their incessant crying. Before Baby Shaker there was nothing you could do about it," Sikalosoft's promotional materials said."Doesn't sound like something I'd download or something I'd ever think of creating. :\

[DimMok]

Groundbreaking?

There are no groundbreaking games for computers, OR consoles either. Hasn't been for years. Monkeyball wasn't groundbreaking either, just a VERY good port.

If you like a few games, but don't like others, then whatever I mention will have you say that they don't matter. But that would be just to you. I happen to really like Crash Bandicoot. You may not. I get a kick out of Bugdom 2, you may not.

You can look through Macworld's game reviews. You will find some very good games there, some pretty innovative.

http://www.macworld.com/apps/index.html?cat=Games

I also enjoy using Oregon Trail, which my daughter and all of her iPhone toting friends have bought (as did my wife).

A recent game I bought is Let's Golf, which is great.

My daughter is a fan of the Metal Gear Solid games, so she bought MGST recently, and likes it.

There's a lot more like these, with many more coming out all the time.

If you're going to simply dismiss them, I can only think that's because you want to.


Thanks for the selections...but your right, to me those games are terrible.

To each is own.

[Alfiejr]

What apple does, that most companies do not do, they do not come out ahead of time and tell the market how they going to crush the competition and how their business model is better than everyone elses.

They just do it, do not talk about they put thing in place a head of time to lay the ground work for future product and test the waters to too how it should be done.

...

Apple has a long term roadmaps of a whole line of products and service and they realize whar needs to be there first and what enables what.

Exactly. well said.

which is why i think Apple will "converge" the iPhone/touch with AppleTV - letting you load and run apps on AppleTV to watch on your HDTV using the iPhone/touch as the remote control. the tech specs that have been reported so far for the next iPhone/touch incorporate the upgrades needed for that - higher HD screen resolution, expanded use of landscape mode, direct bluetooth communication between users, etc.

that would, of course, dramatically enhance the iPhone/touch as a game platform. it would "kill" the PS2 (now in its final phase anyway). with multiple player support, it could even take on the Wii.

this would finally give the AppleTV an important purpose and sell a lot of them. maybe as soon as the Fall this year ...

[Virgil-TB2]

... I think that as the phone/PDA killed the PDA market, the phone/game machine will kill the handheld game machine market. It actually costs less to have the one unit, considering that almost everyone will end up with phone plans that include data and texting. ...Hammer, nail. HIt.

I think this same effect will be keeping many device manufacturers up at night over the next five years or so. If stories of the upcoming iPhone video are true, the portable camera market and the portable video camera market could dry up overnight as well.

Add-in the portable GPS device market, the portable timepiece market (okay that one's already long in decline), and even things like car keys, credit cards, etc. could easily all be replaced by this one ubiquitous "communicator" that you carry around with you. And none of this even includes the idea that there might be other portables from Apple in the offing like the tablet, which could conceivably replace clipboards, shipping manifests, books, and TVs.

I'm excited. When I was six I used to read comics where most everyone in the future wore skin-tight clothing and carried around a single device that served all these purposes and I'm glad I lived at least to the beginning of this vision becoming reality.

I'm sick of using "money" already and avoid it when I can use a card. I also despise having to schlep around a lot of junk in bags wherever I go even if the bag is small, purse, or even wallet-sized. Imagine a world where students don't have to carry around twenty kilos of books, and everyone has access to all their information at any time from anywhere on the planet.

[melgross]

from the newspaper today-

"Apple has removed from it's collection of for sale iPod applications a program that simulates infanticide.

The 99 cents 'Baby Shaker' initially got past Apple's, apparently loose screening process and was downloaded by an unknown number of customers before the Mac maker pulled the "game."

The Sikalosoft brand application presents the user with a Gerberesque infant who immediately begins to wail. Shake the iPod and the baby eventually goes silent as a red 'X' adorns each eye, indicating the infant has died.

Sikalosoft pushed the game as a way for users annoyed by real-life bawling babies to virtually put an end to the noise -- permanently.

"Babies are everywhere you don't want them to be! They're always distracting you from preparing for that big presentation at work with their incessant crying. Before Baby Shaker there was nothing you could do about it," Sikalosoft's promotional materials said."

The question isn't about why Apple removed it, but why it slipped through in the first place.

no matter how you look at it, Apple still a family oriented company. While they shouldn't try to control software that appears on their computers because computer software is not delivered through the company for the most part, and so they can simply refuse to sell it through their stores, it's different with this, where they are selling all software through their store.

And no, that isn't an argument for allowing direct third party sales.

[melgross]

Doesn't matter - it basic structure was there with Soundjam. Remember it was OS9.
But regardlees does that therefor mean Apple invented it ? NO.

Of course it matters. Why would you not understand that?

There's very little around today that isn't based directly upon something that proceeded it, or is modeled off another company's product.

It's irrelevant that this was based on SoundJam. It's a vastly better product than SoundJam. It's not that Apple couldn't have done this from scratch, but it saved them time and money to buy the product and start with that.

[wizard69]

Everyone on the forum already recognizes that but just had to say it.

Oh. One more thing it isn't just games that is driving sales, I see a lot of people replacing PDAs with Touches. Yes for business. One big thing is the lack of a camera which makes the thing useful even where cameras can't go. The other big thing is the integration of what would be a PDA functionality with web and media.


Dave

[melgross]

Thanks for the selections...but your right, to me those games are terrible.

To each is own.

See, then your opinion just stands for yourself. It doesn't mean that the greater aspect of what you said was correct, just that you aren't happy with what's out there, which is very different.

I try to look beyond what I like.

[melgross]

Hammer, nail. HIt.

I think this same effect will be keeping many device manufacturers up at night over the next five years or so. If stories of the upcoming iPhone video are true, the portable camera market and the portable video camera market could dry up overnight as well.

Add-in the portable GPS device market, the portable timepiece market (okay that one's already long in decline), and even things like car keys, credit cards, etc. could easily all be replaced by this one ubiquitous "communicator" that you carry around with you. And none of this even includes the idea that there might be other portables from Apple in the offing like the tablet, which could conceivably replace clipboards, shipping manifests, books, and TVs.

I'm excited. When I was six I used to read comics where most everyone in the future wore skin-tight clothing and carried around a single device that served all these purposes and I'm glad I lived at least to the beginning of this vision becoming reality.

I'm sick of using "money" already and avoid it when I can use a card. I also despise having to schlep around a lot of junk in bags wherever I go even if the bag is small, purse, or even wallet-sized. Imagine a world where students don't have to carry around twenty kilos of books, and everyone has access to all their information at any time from anywhere on the planet.

This has rapidly become a science fiction mainstay. The personal assistant that keeps track of your life for you and does those little dreary things for you that you can't be bothered to do for yourself.

It will be nice twenty or so years from now when you can talk to it and it will actually understand what you are saying.

[TenoBell]

How exactly do you classify a game as groundbeaking?

Name one......And Im talking groundbreaking, great graphics/sound.....like Super Monkey.

[PG4G]

For me, the iPod Touch is the only Apple product I will consider purchasing. A very nicely done piece of hardware. I really hope they do unlock bluetooth in 3.0. I think the iPod Touch has sold well to those who wanted the iPhone, but won't switch to AT&T. I for one am in that category. Unlock bluetooth, and you have a killer little machine given you can tether it to your existing cell phone... think of the possibilities!

I have good news for you: on my mate's iPod Touch 2G running iPhone OS 3.0, Bluetooth is completely unlocked for all Bluetooth services as on iPhone.

This has been the same through all 3 beta so far - it's not a bug. In the last 2 betas he says the iPod Touch 2G also gets that new voice memos app... But everyone knows this....

[pixelcruncher]

Even more significant may be Apple's emergence as a leader in portable gaming, with quarterly multi-touch device sales now having nearly caught up with those of Nintendo DS, the market leader. Nintendo reported selling 31.43 million DS series handhelds during the 2008 calendar year, or an average of 7.86 million units per quarter compared to Apple's 7 million handhelds reported in its most recent quarter.


Apple is a leader in MOBILE PHONE gaming. Let's be honest, the Nintendo DS is 5 years old and has an installed base of over 100 million, and their sales still are through the roof (even DSi sales are huge, and honestly "WHY?"). Developers can make tens of millions of dollars off of a successful DS title (Nintendogs alone sold over 20 million copies at around $30 a pop). I think that I read recently that the most successful iPhone game made hundreds of thousands for the developer (?). Not in the same league.

The iPhone has "timewasters", games that are fun and pass the time. Unlike every gaming platform out there, the iPhone doesn't have a single game that someone would buy the platform just to play the game. I don't know that it ever will. That doesn't mean small developers can't make a buck, but I don't think anyone is going to sell 20 million copies of a game at $29.99 on the App Store any time soon.

[melgross]

It's vastly superior now- after Apple has tweaked it over 10 years. It was basically the same when first launched.

I remember it as being much better in the first release. But it was groundbreaking way back when Apple used it to open the original itunes store. That was in what, 2002, 2003?

[randythot]

They just do it, do not talk about they put thing in place a head of time to lay the ground work for future product and test the waters to too how it should be done.

...

Another example is itune, the software for organizing your songs came first then came the Ipod, then a music store...

Look at a bunch of things apple is doing and think about how those ideas can be extended. The next thing it apple TV there are still testing those waters and learning, once the figure it out you will see them going after the set top box market next.

Apple has a long term roadmaps of a whole line of products and service and they realize whar needs to be there first and what enables what.

Apple themselves have stated the AppleTV is a hobby. I think they have already developed a road map, but are just waiting on the content licensing to work out in reasonable terms. I'm not holding my breath for this one, though.

Sorry but iTunes is a derivative of SoundJam- not created by Apple but bought by Apple.
Same thing with CoverFlow. However, Apple has integrated all these things seamlessly.

@teckstud,
I think Maetro's point was that Apple knows how to order and develop their acquisitions and in-house products. You bring up a good point, though. It's rare that Apple finds purchases of good value, but when they do, they really make it work for them.

[Alfiejr]

This has rapidly become a science fiction mainstay. The personal assistant that keeps track of your life for you and does those little dreary things for you that you can't be bothered to do for yourself.

It will be nice twenty or so years from now when you can talk to it and it will actually understand what you are saying.

actually, it's probably closer to 5 years away. and the x generation iPhone could well be the first one.

[melgross]

Apple is a leader in MOBILE PHONE gaming. Let's be honest, the Nintendo DS is 5 years old and has an installed base of over 100 million, and their sales still are through the roof (even DSi sales are huge, and honestly "WHY?"). Developers can make tens of millions of dollars off of a successful DS title (Nintendogs alone sold over 20 million copies at around $30 a pop). I think that I read recently that the most successful iPhone game made hundreds of thousands for the developer (?). Not in the same league.

The iPhone has "timewasters", games that are fun and pass the time. Unlike every gaming platform out there, the iPhone doesn't have a single game that someone would buy the platform just to play the game. I don't know that it ever will. That doesn't mean small developers can't make a buck, but I don't think anyone is going to sell 20 million copies of a game at $29.99 on the App Store any time soon.

I believe they have sold a total of 100 million devices since the beginning. Is that correct, or is that number just for the most recent device before this new one?

Whatever the number, most are trash. My daughter has had at least four starting with the first, but only uses that last model. The same for her friends. Many of her friends have broken at least one, and needed to buy replacements.

Actually, they do use one other model occasionally, to play one game.

So the "installed" market could be much less than 100 million.

[melgross]

Yes it was- 03 i think. but then it became eartch shattering when coverflow was added.
Then kind of got bloated once the genius was added.

You can turn the genius off. I don't bother with is. It's really more like a slightly slow brother.

[hmurchison]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Virgil-TB2 is about as correct as you can get.

We're basically 3-5 years away from asking ourselves.

"Do I really need small portable digicam?"

"Do I really need a cheap videocam?"


If you look at the success of the Flip Mino HD and other tiny cameras.
If you look at the movement towards CMOS sensors.
If you take the ramifications of having Smoothcam in iMovie (which obviates the
need to have image stabilization in camera)
If you understand the compression standards are getting even better
If you see that encrypted HD outputs are coming


Extrapolate that and add in some cloud services and it's clear that even laptops will
not survive the mobile computer onslaught that is about the come.

ARM is developing mult-core procs that sip power.
Imagination is developing multi-core GPU that sip power.
Apple is pushing multi touch

The writing is on the wall and it's in BOLD RED folks. Mobile computing is the heir to the throne.

[nizy]

Zen Bound, Edge, Rolando, iVampire, to name four.

Fantastic graphics and sound.

I would add Sway, Tap Tap Revenge 2 and 2XL Supercross to that list too! Anyone who doubts the graphical prowess of iPhone should play 2XL - easily the best graphics on the Touch so far (at least until Firemint's Real Racing launches)! :smokey:

I think that the gaming thing is ONLY PART of the Touches success. I know I got mine primarily as a iPod, but the 2 other deciding factors were Safari and the App Store. I didn't want a contract mobile phone (I don't use the phone enough to warrant monthly bills) so that ruled out an iPhone. The Touch is an incredible device that does many things outstandingly well. Gaming is 1 of those things. That is where its success comes from i think.

[Alfiejr]

Unlike every gaming platform out there, the iPhone doesn't have a single game that someone would buy the platform just to play the game. I don't know that it ever will. That doesn't mean small developers can't make a buck, but I don't think anyone is going to sell 20 million copies of a game at $29.99 on the App Store any time soon.

but that's the other killer innovation of the iPhone/touch - the app/game prices are so much lower than before! up to now the game industry business model has been high-priced games. and for mobile apps, high prices too. but the App Store is attacking that model with good games and apps
at a fraction of those prices. that is definitely one big reason for the touch's success.

what happened to the Apple tax?

there will always be a premium market for state of the art games that run on the XBox/PS3. but Apple is blowing the rest of it to pieces.

[TenoBell]

In 5 years the DS has an installed base of over 100 million. In less than two years iPhone/ iTouch has an installed base of 37 million, where will it be in 5 years?

Super Monkey Ball sold 300,000 copies in its first month. At $9.99 that's 3 million. Of course between August 2008 and now it has made much more money. Yes other games have earned over a million in revenue.

I don't think Nintendo will be able to continue to sell games for $30. The only reason they were able to do that is because they have the majority of the portable game market.



Apple is a leader in MOBILE PHONE gaming. Let's be honest, the Nintendo DS is 5 years old and has an installed base of over 100 million, and their sales still are through the roof (even DSi sales are huge, and honestly "WHY?"). Developers can make tens of millions of dollars off of a successful DS title (Nintendogs alone sold over 20 million copies at around $30 a pop). I think that I read recently that the most successful iPhone game made hundreds of thousands for the developer (?). Not in the same league.

The iPhone has "timewasters", games that are fun and pass the time. Unlike every gaming platform out there, the iPhone doesn't have a single game that someone would buy the platform just to play the game. I don't know that it ever will. That doesn't mean small developers can't make a buck, but I don't think anyone is going to sell 20 million copies of a game at $29.99 on the App Store any time soon.

[TenoBell]

I actually like genius. It makes a much better music selection than shuffle.

You can turn the genius off. I don't bother with is. It's really more like a slightly slow brother.

[melgross]

actually, it's probably closer to 5 years away. and the x generation iPhone could well be the first one.

Well, whenever it happens, I hope I'll still be young enough to care.:lol:

[TenoBell]

Its not like it tags your personal collection for everyone to see. No one will ever know your obsession for Lindsay Lohan's music. ;)

I've never even turned it on once- don't want all my info spewed into cyberspace.

[w00master]

I believe they have sold a total of 100 million devices since the beginning. Is that correct, or is that number just for the most recent device before this new one?

Whatever the number, most are trash. My daughter has had at least four starting with the first, but only uses that last model. The same for her friends. Many of her friends have broken at least one, and needed to buy replacements.

Actually, they do use one other model occasionally, to play one game.

So the "installed" market could be much less than 100 million.

Perhaps this is true. However, I still contend that the iPhone/iPod Touch is a wonderful Mobile PHONE gaming platform, but as a pure gaming platform? Not so much.

No physical buttons. This is the biggest killer in making it a true gaming platform. As much as I love some of the "action" titles on the iPhone/iPod Touch, they simply do not compare to the DS platform. The ease of use, the fluidity of action games on the DS is far superior due to this simple fact.

I do recognize the growth of gaming on the iPhone/iPod Touch, but as a gamer they still have a very long way to go. I find that the iPhone/iPod Touch is *wonderful* for short bursts of gaming, but long-term & more involved/complex gaming? I have yet to see anything that approaches the "high-end" games on the DS or PSP.

However, I will end by saying: who cares? To me, the iPhone/iPod Touch isn't so much a gaming decie, but a wonderful all-around mobile device. But to claim that it will overtake Nintendo anytime soon? Apple has a VERY long way to go.

w00master

[w00master]

In 5 years the DS has an installed base of over 100 million. In less than two years iPhone/ iTouch has an installed base of 37 million, where will it be in 5 years?

But where will Nintendo be in 5 years as well? Gone? I doubt it.

Super Monkey Ball sold 300,000 copies in its first month. At $9.99 that's 3 million. Of course between August 2008 and now it has made much more money. Yes other games have earned over a million in revenue.

I don't think Nintendo will be able to continue to sell games for $30. The only reason they were able to do that is because they have the majority of the portable game market.

Perhaps not, but you do know that Nintendo now has a download game/app store as well. I'm sure prices will adjust there.

Just remember, everytime people underestimate Nintendo, they get get their a** handed to them later on.

w00master

[pixelcruncher]

So the "installed" market could be much less than 100 million.

Yeah, probably, but it just plays games. Lots of people aren't buying the iPhone/iPod Touch to game on, they're buying it as a phone. So I'm sure the "installed" market of iPhone/iPod Touch systems that are used as gaming machines is a lot smaller too. Not to mention the willingness of that market to buy games priced over $5. Not only that, I don't know anyone who still has their 1st generation phone. So the "installed" market of iPhones probably isn't the same as the total sales numbers either.

[randythot]

Everyone on the forum already recognizes that but just had to say it.

Oh. One more thing it isn't just games that is driving sales, I see a lot of people replacing PDAs with Touches. Yes for business. One big thing is the lack of a camera which makes the thing useful even where cameras can't go. The other big thing is the integration of what would be a PDA functionality with web and media.


Dave

Wow. I would go so far as to say that analysts are dumb. I sure would like to see how you might quantify any predictions of how well Apple might do in future quarters. It is interesting to see how analysts use such diverging methods and valuations to at least come up with something remotely accurate, and in consensus with each other, but Apple does give them quarterly guidance numbers.

I'm sure the PDA replacement phenomenon would be something those same analysts would be interested in researching.

Two jobs I wouldn't want...weather forecaster, and financial analyst.

[melgross]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.

Virgil-TB2 is about as correct as you can get.

We're basically 3-5 years away from asking ourselves.

"Do I really need small portable digicam?"

"Do I really need a cheap videocam?"


If you look at the success of the Flip Mino HD and other tiny cameras.
If you look at the movement towards CMOS sensors.
If you take the ramifications of having Smoothcam in iMovie (which obviates the
need to have image stabilization in camera)
If you understand the compression standards are getting even better
If you see that encrypted HD outputs are coming


Extrapolate that and add in some cloud services and it's clear that even laptops will
not survive the mobile computer onslaught that is about the come.

ARM is developing mult-core procs that sip power.
Imagination is developing multi-core GPU that sip power.
Apple is pushing multi touch

The writing is on the wall and it's in BOLD RED folks. Mobile computing is the heir to the throne.

Well 'murch, five years is a long time.

I agree that by then, low end cameras, and possibly, even video cameras might find competition in this space. But they will be much better too, so it's hard to tell. Once IQ gets to a certain point on the lowest end, it becomes good enough for some uses. But the networks will have to allow the transmission of a higher quality video file before it will be useful to have a phone that can produce one.

From what I'm seeing, at least so far, people just use phone video and photos to send to each other.

If the iPhone has HD video out, that will certainly help if it can shoot HD video. Then it could be attached to, or transmit to a HD Tv.

So far, Smoothcam doesn't impress me. It slows my Mac Pro down so much, I doubt most home shooters will want to use it. Apple will have to use both Open CL AND GrandCentral to make it useful. It's much easier to do in the camera.

As far as ARM goes, MS will have to port Windows to it, which I doubt they will want to do, going from their history. Linux is still going nowhere. It's a failure on netbooks, with most people wanting Windows, which requires the Atom.

Apple wouldn't put "real" OS X on ARM chips. Why should they? They would likely use the Atom for that if they were to make an OS X netbook-like machine.

The iPhone OS is nice, but I don't see it taking over from OS X as a serious computing platform without serious GUI changes for much higher rez screens.

RED, are you now communist?:lol:

[pixelcruncher]

In 5 years the DS has an installed base of over 100 million. In less than two years iPhone/ iTouch has an installed base of 37 million, where will it be in 5 years?
Super Monkey Ball sold 300,000 copies in its first month. At $9.99 that's 3 million. Of course between August 2008 and now it has made much more money. Yes other games have earned over a million in revenue.
I don't think Nintendo will be able to continue to sell games for $30. The only reason they were able to do that is because they have the majority of the portable game market.

Nintendo will continue to sell games at $30, because people are still buying them in droves. The DS has over 20 titles that have sold in the 10-20 million range at the $30 price point. That's just in 5 years.

[irnchriz]

Apple would be wise to drop the price of the entry level iPod Touch to around £99 and boot their marketshare even more. Also one of the best things about the Apps is that if you have multiple iPhones/Touches in the home you can sync them with the same iTunes account and share the downloads across all of your devices which is great for multiplayer titles.

[TenoBell]

I didn't say anything about Nintendo going away. I'm not sure how you inferred that. I'm just saying they will have competition and will be forced to adjust.

But where will Nintendo be in 5 years as well? Gone? I doubt it.

Perhaps not, but you do know that Nintendo now has a download game/app store as well. I'm sure prices will adjust there.

Just remember, everytime people underestimate Nintendo, they get get their a** handed to them later on.

w00master

[hmurchison]

The iPhone OS is nice, but I don't see it taking over from OS X as a serious computing platform without serious GUI changes for much higher rez screens.

RED, are you now communist?:lol:

I don't think Apple's all that interested in Atom. It doesn't differentiate their product lineup and PA Semi wasn't brought on board to sit and watch Atom based product go out the door.

Apple has ARM in more products than people realize.

Airport Express/Time Capsule
iPod Touch/iPhone

and probably some I'm missing. With Snow Leopard and the subsequent OS after that I see Apple running full Mac OS X on ARM. It won't come with too much pain for developers if Xcode 4 and beyond leverages CLANG/LLVM to good effect.

[melgross]

Yeah, probably, but it just plays games. Lots of people aren't buying the iPhone/iPod Touch to game on, they're buying it as a phone. So I'm sure the "installed" market of iPhone/iPod Touch systems that are used as gaming machines is a lot smaller too. Not to mention the willingness of that market to buy games priced over $5. Not only that, I don't know anyone who still has their 1st generation phone. So the "installed" market of iPhones probably isn't the same as the total sales numbers either.

Most people sell their first gen iPhone or itouch. Estimates are that as much as 90% of all of them are still in use somewhere.

It's not likely that more than half of Nintendo's machines are still being used.

As for games on the Apple products, well, everyone I know with one has at least three or four games, with some having a dozen or more.

The thing about the game prices is not that $10 and under prices will mean poor games, because we can already see that's not the case, but whether that will damage Nintendo's business model. If they sell games for $20 and up, where does that leave them?

[TenoBell]

You cannot use the past 5 years to chart the future 5 years. 5 years ago their was little competition for Nintendo. This won't stop with the iPhone, other phones will begin to play games too. Nintendo will see more competition as time goes on.

Nintendo will continue to sell games at $30, because people are still buying them in droves. The DS has over 20 titles that have sold in the 10-20 million range at the $30 price point. That's just in 5 years.

[TenoBell]

Did you expect some rivalry between people who owned iPhone's and people who owned the Touch?
What's good for one is good for the other.

I love how all the iPhone heads come on this thread and talk up the Touch- just love it. :lol:

[melgross]

I don't think Apple's all that interested in Atom. It doesn't differentiate their product lineup and PA Semi wasn't brought on board to sit and watch Atom based product go out the door.

Apple has ARM in more products than people realize.

Airport Express/Time Capsule
iPod Touch/iPhone

and probably some I'm missing. With Snow Leopard and the subsequent OS after that I see Apple running full Mac OS X on ARM. It won't come with too much pain for developers if Xcode 4 and beyond leverages CLANG/LLVM to good effect.

It depends on where Apple wants to go with this. If they want to say that yu can simply install your programs on it, then it will need the Atom, or equiv. because an emulator would be impossible on such slow chips.

If they truly want to have two totally different lines, then, yes, the ARM will be fine.

But I'm not sure what Apple wants to do here. I don't think anyone can give a good guess right now.

One reason why the Linux based netbooks are failing is because people want to run the regular programs on them. The same could be true for any Apple product. Talking about it being easy to port the programs over isn't true. It will be a LOT of work. Perhaps impossible work.

You can't just take an OS X GUI based program with the menu bar, drop down menus, floating menus and the like, and convert that to the much simpler iPhone GUI. The programs, in many cases, won't be viable at all.

I see the iPhone GUI good until it gets to about 720 x 500, or so. Beyond that, there's no reason for it. Would Apple then build yet another GUI? I don't know, that would get confusing. I would think they would need the OS X GUI.

[melgross]

Nintendo is the devil. :devil:

In a red dress!

[pixelcruncher]

Most people sell their first gen iPhone or itouch. Estimates are that as much as 90% of all of them are still in use somewhere.

It's not likely that more than half of Nintendo's machines are still being used.


I'd love to see some stats on those statements. That doesn't make any sense, people resell the iphone, but throw their DS in the trash? After a couple years? I doubt you can find any evidence to support that, here's a link supporting a much larger installed base than you claim:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14327

Feel free to post the link you got your info from, I would love to read it.

[nizy]

Nintendo will continue to sell games at $30, because people are still buying them in droves. The DS has over 20 titles that have sold in the 10-20 million range at the $30 price point. That's just in 5 years.

The article says that only 7 DS titles have sold upwards of 10M copies and 83 reaching 1M each. I assume most of the 10M+ titles are Nintendo games too. Its like the Wii, ridiculously profitable for Nintendo and maybe profitable for everyone else.

As for game prices, $30 is way too much for most of the crap on DS. Variable pricing works much better, allowing for better value for money. Eventually Nintendo will have to lower prices as mobile gaming takes off even more and users start to question the cost of a DS game vs. iPhone, especially when many iPhone games offer similar quality experiences.

[pixelcruncher]

You cannot use the past 5 years to chart the future 5 years. 5 years ago their was little competition for Nintendo.

Where did I say that? You simply made the point that after 3 years, the iPhone has a game that sold 300,000 in a month. I was simply countering that the DS track record over 5 years blows that out of the water. People are trying to make the iPhone out to be a gaming machine. I don't think that's true, its an excellent phone with great "timewasters".

[solipsism]

Apple is a leader in MOBILE PHONE gaming. Let's be honest, the Nintendo DS is 5 years old and has an installed base of over 100 million, and their sales still are through the roof (even DSi sales are huge, and honestly "WHY?"). Developers can make tens of millions of dollars off of a successful DS title (Nintendogs alone sold over 20 million copies at around $30 a pop). I think that I read recently that the most successful iPhone game made hundreds of thousands for the developer (?). Not in the same league.

The iPhone has "timewasters", games that are fun and pass the time. Unlike every gaming platform out there, the iPhone doesn't have a single game that someone would buy the platform just to play the game. I don't know that it ever will. That doesn't mean small developers can't make a buck, but I don't think anyone is going to sell 20 million copies of a game at $29.99 on the App Store any time soon.

1) The leader comment can be taken many ways. Nintendo still leads in almost all categories but that is quickly changing.

2) DSi Sales are good but a little too late this round for Nintendo now that Apple has allowed an API for the 30-pin connector. Nintendo are copying the iPhone OS X model by including more NAND and allowing for cheaper digital downloads. Once the D-Pads hit market Touches will start outselling iPhones.

3) That cost goes to physical media and distribution and to a higher cost for their developers. The App Store has over 35k apps in 10 months because it's inexpensive and easy. While this allows for a lot of crap it also it attractive for the quality game makers.

4) All games are timewasters.

5) Selling a game on the DS for $30 would be less on the App Store and have considerably more HW power available. If we consider how common iPods in conjunction with DS users we can probably find many that would want to combine the two devices for a faster gaming console while saving money while doing it.

[pixelcruncher]

The article says that only 7 DS titles have sold upwards of 10M copies and 83 reaching 1M each. I assume most of the 10M+ titles are Nintendo games too. Its like the Wii, ridiculously profitable for Nintendo and maybe profitable for everyone else..

I stand corrected.

[melgross]

I'd love to see some stats on those statements. That doesn't make any sense, people resell the iphone, but throw their DS in the trash? After a couple years? I doubt you can find any evidence to support that, here's a link supporting a much larger installed base than you claim:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14327

Feel free to post the link you got your info from, I would love to read it.

That site isn't coming in properly. I get the page, but a big grey blank where the article is supposed to be.

I have to leave now, so I'll leave it open incase it resolves itself while I'm gone.

[zunx]

That is great. Imagine now an iPod-touch-form devide twice as large and with the full Mac OS X inside (see first picture):

Next Apple moves will be Books and Games…
http://spidouz.wordpress.com/2008/09/03/next-apple-moves-will-be-books-and-games

[solipsism]

depends on who you talk to. I find work of any sort to be time wasting, while laying on a beach with friends enjoying a nice cold beer to be the best way to spend time. Other people find the best way to spend time is to click on dragons and wizards and gnomes or whatever the fuck else there is LOL

All those things are timewasters. This forum is a timewaster. All of Teckstud's posts are timewasters. Except for the last one they can also be useful and fun, but they still waste time, unless their is some TARDIS technology I'm not aware of. Oh yeah, watching Dr. Who is a timewaster.

[MassMacMini]

I bought one for my little brother this past Christmas and he went absolutely ape shit nuts for it lol. It's a great little toy.

Ya it's pretty sick and definitely something Apple shouldn't have approved of. What I don't get is how an app like that slips in, but an app where you can put your friends pictures on trillion dollar bills and send it to them to be printed out got denied. Really a head scratcher.

I wonder if certain app reviewers have certain reputations, like, "NOTHING gets past HELGA!" I could just see a fat woman barely paying attention, cigarette hanging from her lip, makeup smeared across her fat face, just going along stamping no on a bunch of papers saying "NEIN! NEIN! NEIN! NEIN!"

Too true. I thought of that when I read the article earlier today. However, in this instance, Helga, was bribed by Greta with a carton of smokes :lol:

[SpamSandwich]

I'm waiting for techstud to somehow disparage the very apple products he claims to like.

As Mel says, "give it time".... :lol:

[SpamSandwich]

For me, the iPod Touch is the only Apple product I will consider purchasing. A very nicely done piece of hardware. I really hope they do unlock bluetooth in 3.0. I think the iPod Touch has sold well to those who wanted the iPhone, but won't switch to AT&T. I for one am in that category. Unlock bluetooth, and you have a killer little machine given you can tether it to your existing cell phone... think of the possibilities!

I thought nothing of the 1st gen touch and decided to wait for the 2nd gen. I'm glad I did, I take the touch everywhere and consider it one of the most indispensable consumer electronics devices I've ever owned.

[SpamSandwich]

I'm pretty sure the next iPod Touch will have GPS and a camera.

These components would add a few dollars to the cost of the device but Apple would more than likely make it back on the increased sales of apps that use the GPS and camera.

Personally, I don't really care about the camera, but the GPS would be fantastic. I've got my fingers crossed... which makes it very difficult to type, by the way. :lol:

[SpamSandwich]

Name one......And Im talking groundbreaking, great graphics/sound.....like Super Monkey.
I seriously would love to purchase these types of games for my daughters for my Iphone.

I sold there old DS's....was thinking of the new DSI...but will wait for the new touches..hopefully with a camera built in. That would be sweet. That seems to be the feature they really want. For some reason....

Are you kidding me? Dim, there are now over 35,000 apps on the App Store, and they just passed 1 billion downloads about an hour ago.... you can't find anything appropriate? Try, try again.

[solipsism]

I'm pretty sure the next iPod Touch will have GPS and a camera.

These components would add a few dollars to the cost of the device but Apple would more than likely make it back on the increased sales of apps that use the GPS and camera.

Personally, I don't really care about the camera, but the GPS would be fantastic.

A camera and GPS addition are about marketing not about cost. If Apple doesn't include them it would not be difficult for a 3rd-party to make an attachment for either of these, but that wouldn't be ideal for the consumer.

We are pretty certain that Apple will up the camera quality in the iPhone to at least 3.2Mpx. Would Apple include the 2Mpx camera in the extra thin touch so the iPhone maintains its current camera lead? If Apple unveils a front-facing camera in the next iPhone —which I think is doubtful as an updated camera would be sufficient for this next generation— then the Touch will surely get a back camera.

The A-GPS chip in the iPhone made sense the iPhone would mostly likely be connected to a network, but 3rd-party developers can include local maps so including it with the Touch now makes sense, unless Apple wants to keep those customers on the iPhone. I think they will include a GPS chip if it's small enough for the thin player. I already of someone who will use their iPhone as an iPhone and have a cheap Touch as their GPS device, assuming that it is included. I would rather have an inclusive device, but I can see why someone would want it separate from their phone.

What about the magnetometer? I think that the Touch will include this regardless so that it can be used to determine stationary cardinal direction. Will Apple include a compass app or an API so other programs to use it?

Also, we know that the Touch has had a NAND capacity lead on the iPhone, but that can't continue with exponential growth for much longer. Most are expecting 32GB iPhone this summer, and a 64GB Touch in the fall. The former is possible the later is still price and size prohibitive.

[melgross]

That's funny mel, it came up fine and fast on my Windows XP machine at work. :lol:

Maybe so, but Safari has always been known to not accept web pages with poorly written code. Apple is fussier than some other browser companies.

Sometimes, you have to hit it again, and it resolves itself. I'll look at it again shortly.

[melgross]

Ok, it's there. Poor page design is actually the problem. That big grey blank at the top of the page actually has the article below.

Anyway. I'm not impressed with the numbers. It says that by 2011 they will have 112 million installed base. That's another year and a half of sales, about. If Nintendo sold 35 million or so this year, adding another 55 million to that sales total, would mean that they should have over 150 million in the field, by conservative estimate, if many of their previous models were still out there. Actually, it should be closer to 175 million.

But actually, as I said, most of them are not used after a while, break, get lost or stolen etc. So the total will be just 112 million.

In addition, it seems as though half will be in Japan, if the 89% of households owning it is true. That means that the entire world will have just 50%.

When Apple's products move into China, Apple will likely only have 25 to 30% in the US.

Better distribution.

This is also before Apple came out with the ver 2 software, or at least, at the same time.

It's almost two years old, and contains estimates that we don't know to be true for today, much less for 2011.

By the way, there are plenty of articles about used iPhone sales.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/sep2008/tc2008091_106953.htm

[pixelcruncher]

By the way, there are plenty of articles about used iPhone sales.

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/sep2008/tc2008091_106953.htm

OK, scanned it quickly, couldn't find anything about 90% of 1st gen iPhones are still in use. I'll give you that percentage, but I can almost guarantee you the new games coming out for the next iPhone won't run on 1st gen.

Gotta run, just to reiterate my point, I'm not saying people won't game on the iPhone. The #1 game played worldwide on computers is solitaire, and I see Apple jumping right into that niche. To say that Nintendo is scared (when a single Mario game can sell millions of systems as well as games), is overstating what the iPhone has going for it right now.

[melgross]

OK, scanned it quickly, couldn't find anything about 90% of 1st gen iPhones are still in use. I'll give you that percentage, but I can almost guarantee you the new games coming out for the next iPhone won't run on 1st gen.

Gotta run, just to reiterate my point, I'm not saying people won't game on the iPhone. The #1 game played worldwide on computers is solitaire, and I see Apple jumping right into that niche. To say that Nintendo is scared (when a single Mario game can sell millions of systems as well as games), is overstating what the iPhone has going for it right now.

I didn't say they were scared. But they indicated at one point that they were concerned.

[solipsism]

but I can almost guarantee you the new games coming out for the next iPhone won't run on 1st gen.
If they won't run on the original iPhone then they won't run on the iPhone 3G. I can't imagine that many developers are going to exclude every iPhone currently being sold.

[CU10]

Nokia N800 vs. iPhone = iPod Touch

[solipsism]

image: http://www.mobilelinuxinfo.com/images/nokia-n800-iphone-touch.jpg

Here is why... what?

[sandlesoft]

Nintendo will continue to sell games at $30, because people are still buying them in droves. The DS has over 20 titles that have sold in the 10-20 million range at the $30 price point. That's just in 5 years.

I'm one of those guys who has had at least one of each gameboy and was even dumb enough to buy a DSi recently, so I love Nintendo. But "on the ground" around town I can really see the DS market starting to die a slow "casual" death. In some ways Nintendo itself has changed tack and has started to target the mass market/casual crowd. It's deliberately opened itself up to Apple IMO.

Now the DSiWare "appstore" is interesting, I can see potential there but I doubt Nintendo have the vision or capability to execute what needs to happen VERY SOON: heaps of excellent low $$ games. The content put up so far just begs belief, it's so lame.

The difference ? Apple has opened up their distribution channel and have an excellent developer SDK and program that it friendly and nice to use. The DSi is the best gameboy ever released, but they need to MOVE FAST on their appstore.

[Dorotea]

Apple would be wise to drop the price of the entry level iPod Touch to around £99 and boot their marketshare even more. Also one of the best things about the Apps is that if you have multiple iPhones/Touches in the home you can sync them with the same iTunes account and share the downloads across all of your devices which is great for multiplayer titles.

Apple is in business to make money. A $99 iPod touch won't help them make money.

[solipsism]

Apple is in business to make money. A $99 iPod touch won't help them make money.

I don't understand this about a lot of the forum posters. When a product is doing well and the ecosystem is growing at an already breakneck rate they suggest that Apple should slash prices until they lose money on each unit sold just to boost marketshare. It really doesn't seem to take much understanding of economics to know that such a thing can't easily be undone to consumer satisfaction once you lower the price point.

[greglo]

Nintendo does not target 'just' under 12s.

Nintendo has dominated the handheld industry since it entered. It may feel 'threatened', like I feel threatened by an eagle flying over head, but it's not going to die because a whole bunch of low-budget (no matter the quality) of games are downloaded from the app-store for a machine the far, far majority of people buy for other reasons. No matter what you might like to think.

People here clearly do not understand the gaming biz.

[hmurchison]

People here clearly do not understand the gaming biz.

I don't think we have to understand the biz. I give a rat's ass about understanding the gaming biz. What I do understand is that an iPod Touch is much more of a pragmatic choice for my family because it games well enough but also integrates with the rest of my computing setup.

I don't think Nintendo is going to die but they'll catch a Flu here and there.

[melgross]

http://www.mobilelinuxinfo.com/images/nokia-n800-iphone-touch.jpg

That thing is way too huge. All that wasted space around the display.

Horrible! One of the ugliest things I've seen in a while.

[melgross]

I don't understand this about a lot of the forum posters. When a product is doing well and the ecosystem is growing at an already breakneck rate they suggest that Apple should slash prices until they lose money on each unit sold just to boost marketshare. It really doesn't seem to take much understanding of economics to know that such a thing can't easily be undone to consumer satisfaction once you lower the price point.

It's the DELL way. How could it go wrong?

[melgross]

Nintendo does not target 'just' under 12s.

Nintendo has dominated the handheld industry since it entered. It may feel 'threatened', like I feel threatened by an eagle flying over head, but it's not going to die because a whole bunch of low-budget (no matter the quality) of games are downloaded from the app-store for a machine the far, far majority of people buy for other reasons. No matter what you might like to think.

People here clearly do not understand the gaming biz.

Not "just" under 12. but that's a very big part of their market.

I see kids use them less as they get older.

[melgross]

Nintendo does not target 'just' under 12s.

Nintendo has dominated the handheld industry since it entered. It may feel 'threatened', like I feel threatened by an eagle flying over head, but it's not going to die because a whole bunch of low-budget (no matter the quality) of games are downloaded from the app-store for a machine the far, far majority of people buy for other reasons. No matter what you might like to think.

People here clearly do not understand the gaming biz.

Neither do you obviously.

I've been gaming since the first Pong appeared in a bar near my college in, I think it was, 1972.

I've seen more dominating companies disappear in this business than you've played games.

Nintendo can go under as well.

I'm not saying it will, it's very good at what it does. But that doesn't mean that this time in the sun for it will last.

The Wii is the first time they ever ended up on top in consoles, and that surprised even them.

The Ds did well because it's been cheap. Cheap. Cheap. That was the main route to fame. The old ones sucked even back then.

The new ones are much better, but they're basically the same old.

The PSP is a good competitor, but it's not for kids.

The iPhone appeals to both markets, and has much more important uses.

While the Dsx series may stay on top, the iP/iT will come up close behind.

It doesn't matter what kind of games are being played. What matters is who is playing them, and how many.

Apple's products can take away from them, but they can't take away from Apple.

All Apple has to do is to nip at them over time. As the iP/iT gains more users, the sheer number of people will have a serious effect on Nintendo's market.

They will force Nintendo to drop the price of games significantly. That will put a major dent in their good profits. It will hurt them later on.

Believe it.

[hill60]

Zen Bound, Edge, Rolando, iVampire, to name four.

Fantastic graphics and sound.

SIM City, EA Games

Wolfenstein 3D, ID software

A couple of nice PC ports.

Katamari, Fieldrunners.

Who could forget the Tap Tap series from Tapulous.

Tap Tap Revenge, Tap Tap Revenge 2, Nine Inch Nails version, Tap Tap Dance, Tap Tap Coldplay.

The tapulous guys must be driving Ferraris by now.

[solipsism]

That thing is way too huge. All that wasted space around the display.

Horrible! One of the ugliest things I've seen in a while.

I know that D-pad attachments for the Touch/iPhone will be coming, but I hope they aren't as bulky as the Nokia in that pic above. A couple more ideas would be to have built in stereo peakers and a catridge system in the back like on the PSP and DS, but for exchanging rechargeable batteries. If they are Li-Poly they could be quite thin.

There is an manufacturer's issue of having to make a version for each iPod Touch and iPhone on the market or waiting until the new ones arrive so they can make inserts. However, the staggered yearly releases does make it hard to keep up.

[melgross]

I know that D-pad attachments for the Touch/iPhone will be coming, but I hope they aren't as bulky as the Nokia in that pic above. A couple more ideas would be to have built in stereo peakers and a catridge system in the back like on the PSP and DS, but for exchanging rechargeable batteries. If they are Li-Poly they could be quite thin.

There is an manufacturer's issue of having to make a version for each iPod Touch and iPhone on the market or waiting until the new ones arrive so they can make inserts. However, the staggered yearly releases does make it hard to keep up.

I'm not that concerned. But whatever they come up with, it will be removable. This isn't.

[ipodrulz]

Assassins Creed, Hero of Sparta, Sim City, Enigmo, Fast and Furious, Touchgrind, Cro-Mag Rally, Lightbike.

[ipodrulz]

Apple is a leader in MOBILE PHONE gaming. Let's be honest, the Nintendo DS is 5 years old and has an installed base of over 100 million, and their sales still are through the roof (even DSi sales are huge, and honestly "WHY?"). Developers can make tens of millions of dollars off of a successful DS title (Nintendogs alone sold over 20 million copies at around $30 a pop). I think that I read recently that the most successful iPhone game made hundreds of thousands for the developer (?). Not in the same league.

The iPhone has "timewasters", games that are fun and pass the time. Unlike every gaming platform out there, the iPhone doesn't have a single game that someone would buy the platform just to play the game. I don't know that it ever will. That doesn't mean small developers can't make a buck, but I don't think anyone is going to sell 20 million copies of a game at $29.99 on the App Store any time soon.

The amazing thing about the App Store is it's ability to help small developers make loads of money. In fact since February the independent iFart developer has raked in $245,000 in revenue! Even more impressive is that EA is raking in (approximately) $100,000 a day just for Sim City (Of course Apple will take 30% of this) but there's no doubting that the iThings are starting to creep up on DS sales.

As for your argument about iPhone games being "Time Wasters" go check out Assassins Creed. It's a port of the DS version, and every single review has touted it as being better than the DS version because of upgraded graphics, sound and lower price point.

[ipodrulz]

You bring up a good point, though. It's rare that Apple finds purchases of good value

I think it'd be more accurate to say that it's rare for Apple to public announce purchase. Just want to point out that they bought Final Cut Studio and developed that, and they bought eMagic which developed into Logic Studio and Garageband.

That's a lot of important software.

Apple likes to purchase small companies that have great usable products. In fact they just bought P.A. Semiconductor, who knows what they're going to use that for! But it'll play a vital role in some future product.

[ipodrulz]

I think the reason for the prices being so low is because of distribution. You don't have to pay for shipping, marketing, packaging, manufacturing of the chip. It's all done over the App Store, which is being supported by developers and Apple!

EDIT: We also have to take into account updates. An iPhone App can be updated adding new levels, and with the next SDK loads of new features. With the DS games if you want to update you go out and buy then next version... if and when it comes out.

[solipsism]

Of course Apple will take 30% of this) but there's no doubting that the iThings are starting to creep up on DS sales.
Apple may take 30% off the top for all their expenses, but we need to consider the expenses of the a cartridge game. A few things off the top of my head are the physical media and packaging costs, the much higher distribution costs over downloadable media, the additional costs and time needed to debug a game. And then there is the cost of the SDK and the fees associated with being a DS or PSP developer. Are they higher than with the iPhone OS X SDK?

One huge saving for developers and I think this will be a huge draw to the platform is that they can set up a game with a few levels very fast at a low rate. A relatively short time and low cost all around, and if the game is a hit they will be able to fund additional levels of play that can be purchased within the game itself. This is a win-win for large and independent developers alike as it involves very little risk.

Pixelcruncher's argument that some DS games sold 20M units at $30 a pop means that the DS will continue to be a more successful platform doesn't hold water as the game developer doesn't get anywhere near that amount and with nearly 40M units sold already, or 40% of all the DS' sold in 5 years, and the iPhone platform already has many more games, if e are to believe that 1/3 are games and there are 35k apps on the App Store.

This can only get better for Apple and the consumer, and we're already seeing Nintendo make the first steps with the DSi and their digital distribution method. I would never count Nintendo out as they are too big, too resourceful and have weathered many slums in popularity, but so far they are behind in this new movement. I think they really need to make their player a viable PMP for audio and video otherwise the majority of people who have both an iPod and DS may just go for the iPod Touch instead, especially sense it's considerably more powerful.

edit: ipodrulz beat me to it.

[melgross]

I think it'd be more accurate to say that it's rare for Apple to public announce purchase. Just want to point out that they bought Final Cut Studio and developed that, and they bought eMagic which developed into Logic Studio and Garageband.

That's a lot of important software.

Apple likes to purchase small companies that have great usable products. In fact they just bought P.A. Semiconductor, who knows what they're going to use that for! But it'll play a vital role in some future product.

They also purchased the software that became DVD Studio.

[addabox]

This, increasingly, is the way of high tech.

In a way, it's analogous to how manufacturing is done-- moving up the food chain from the extraction of raw materials to basic fabrication to parts assembly to design of complex systems.

It makes perfect sense for anyone dealing in something complex as leveraging an OS into a cohesive ecosystem to buy "parts" and customize them to fit. Frees up your people to do "big picture" work.

[melgross]

yeah that n800 looks horrible too though :D

aint i a stinker?

Sigh! I know that was supposed to be funny, and I suppose it is.

But what I said was true.

[Aizmov]

Viable perhaps until the game titles start to grow up.....

One can only take so much of Farting, Tic Tac Toe, X Ray, and the countless other crapware.....

SuperMonkey Ball was the start, but havent seen much after that.

Whats the problem?

You are really missing out! Let me help:

Vay
iFighter
Crayon Physics
geoDefense
Fieldrunners
FlightControl
Baseball Superstars 2009
Topple
Tap Tap Revenge
Star Trigon


iTunes is far more than what SoundJam ever was. I had SoundJam, and it was good for its time. But the very first Apple version was already much better.

Apple has evolved the product to horizons that are vastly beyond what the original product was capable of.

Exactly. iTunes has become the Emacs of jukeboxes, add a browser and a terminal and I wont have to leave iTunes, if only it were a jukebox.

[tyson9000]

If you want to make your iPhone or iTouch really unique and personalized, this is definitely the application to do it.

This app is just a really great idea (surprised it took this long for someone to come up with it.)



Who wouldn't want to see their own personally created screen shot every time they turn on their iPhone or iTouch??? I highly recommend it.

There is nothing else out there that even comes close to what it can do.

It's like art. You gotta try this.



I have made several wallpapers by combining a photo with graphics and then adding text. First, I did a really simple wallpaper just to get used to the features and in like 5 minutes, I had my first one done. I loaded one of my photos (surfing shot), added 3 text boxes (my name, address and a funny line about the photo) made them all different colors/sizes/fonts and placed them around the picture.



Then I got more sophisticated by creating different sized colored boxes (use the space key in the text box) and then layered them and added 4 text boxes over the whole thing. It's pretty phenomenal.


I'm still trying out different ideas. The possibilities seem endless, but it's way too much fun creating new graphics. Nice combo of a functional app that totally lets you do your own thing.



Overall, I am very impressed with what this application can do and how simple it is to use - but with amazing results!



The link to the app is: http://ax.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/browserRedirect?url=itms%3A%2F%252Fitunes.apple.co m%2FWebObjects%2FMZStore.woa%2Fwa%2FviewSoftware%3 Fid%3D311880805%26amp%3Bmt%3D8%26partnerId%3D30%26 siteID%3DCMWzV4SDlTs-C5Ca6Gaj0OMW4gBW6pxhrg



There is also a website that has more examples of some of designs people have done with the app. It is at: http://www.bgapps.com/text2Wallpaper/



Everyone I show this to loves it. I'm even making designs for my friends just for fun and emailing them to them just like a photo. People love it!

[tonton]

Commenting on this thread before it was hijacked by a spammer...

I think more and more people are discovering they don't need a subpar camera, HDSPA and phone functions in their iPod, nor do they need an AV jukebox in their phone.

Personally, I would much rather have one of these and one of these...
http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/sony-ericsson-t700-1.jpghttp://images.apple.com/ipodtouch/features/images/intro-whatsnewiphone20080909.png
instead of one of these...
http://images.apple.com/iphone/features/images/main_wireless20080724.png

I just think candy bar phones with a dialing pad and T9 messaging input work better as phones than the iPhone does.