Is Anyone Minding the Store at the Federal Reserve?

[ronaldo]

This is really rather disturbing. No one at the Federal reserve can account for some 9 trillion dollars.

http://www.thedailybell.com/index.asp?fl=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlxBeAvsB8

Thomas Jefferson's words about banking institutions being more dangerous than standing armies are coming true.

[Hands Sandon]

This is really rather disturbing. No one at the Federal reserve can account for some 9 trillion dollars.

http://www.thedailybell.com/index.asp?fl=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXlxBeAvsB8

Thomas Jefferson's words about banking institutions being more dangerous than standing armies are coming true.

FED UP!!

Can't we just get rid of the FED?

[involuntary_serf]

FED UP!!

Can't we just get rid of the FED?

We could...but then the sky will fall...earthquakes...tornadoes...parents eating their young...dogs and cats living together...plagues of locusts...and all sorts of other really bad stuff.

[Hands Sandon]

We could...but then the sky will fall...earthquakes...tornadoes...parents eating their young...dogs and cats living together...plagues of locusts...and all sorts of other really bad stuff.



I believe in a system encompassing interest free loans. One that doesn't create endless inflation through interest, indeed lower prices for goods and services. The FED, I believe will adapt to a model closer to that than has been the case, to safeguard it's survival, but I don't see it happening quickly or substantially enough.

Seriously, what do you think?

[involuntary_serf]

I believe in a system encompassing interest free loans. One that doesn't create endless inflation through interest, indeed lower prices for goods and services. The FED, I believe will adapt to a model closer to that than has been the case, to safeguard it's survival, but I don't see it happening quickly or substantially enough.

Seriously, what do you think?

1. The world of interest free loans is a fantasy world.
2. Interest doesn't cause inflation...printing money (which is what the Fed does) causes (is) inflation.
3. The Fed is a destabilizing force in the economic world and has no place in a free economy.

[Hands Sandon]

1. The world of interest free loans is a fantasy world.
2. Interest doesn't cause inflation...printing money (which is what the Fed does) causes (is) inflation.
3. The Fed is a destabilizing force in the economic world and has no place in a free economy.

Charging interest on monies lent is very closely related to inflation. If the money lent didn't have an interest payment attached, there'd be a lot less money to print. It's the interest charged that keeps the ball rolling.

What would you want instead of the FED?

[involuntary_serf]

Charging interest on monies lent is very closely related to inflation.

Not for people who correctly understand monetary economics.


What would you want instead of the FED?

A free banking and free money economy. It existed before the Fed and can exist again. Probably not in my lifetime.

[Hands Sandon]

Not for people who correctly understand monetary economics.




A free banking and free money economy. It existed before the Fed and can exist again. Probably not in my lifetime.

Correctly understand monetary economics that are taught as gospel but are based on false assumptions, indeed.

[involuntary_serf]

Correctly understand monetary economics that are taught as gospel but are based on false assumptions, indeed.

What do you mean?

[Hands Sandon]

What do you mean?

I'll leave it in your hands to understand what I mean.

[involuntary_serf]

I'll leave it in your hands to understand what I mean.

Nice. :rolleyes:

[sammi jo]

FED UP!!

Can't we just get rid of the FED?

Since the Federal Reserve is unaccountable to anyone, how can "we" get rid of it?

[Northgate]

Republicans want accountability? When did that happen?

[SpamSandwich]

Since the Federal Reserve is unaccountable to anyone, how can "we" get rid of it?

The most troubling part of the ongoing devaluation of our money (besides it being printed willy-nilly to "stimulate" the economy) is that it is likely not backed by an adequate supply of gold. The currently pending bill before Congressional committee to audit the Fed (HR 1207) (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1207) would help determine what actions should be taken to bring the sharp sting of reality back to our out of control economic policies.

[Northgate]

No one seems to mind when it's printed willy-nilly to fight a war in Iraq. Or to be palleted, shrink wrapped and air lifted to Afghanistan.

[SpamSandwich]

No one seems to mind when it's printed willy-nilly to fight a war in Iraq. Or to be palleted, shrink wrapped and air lifted to Afghanistan.

I minded.

[involuntary_serf]

No one seems to mind when it's printed willy-nilly to fight a war in Iraq. Or to be palleted, shrink wrapped and air lifted to Afghanistan.

No one? As in not anyone?

[involuntary_serf]

The most troubling part of the ongoing devaluation of our money (besides it being printed willy-nilly to "stimulate" the economy) is that it is not backed by an adequate supply of gold.

FTFY

Can there be any reasonable assumption that there's any gold backing the monetary supply at this point?


...what actions should be taken to bring the sharp sting of reality back to our out of control economic policies.

Don't expect any more reality from this administration than from the previous. But the speeches will be better.

[Northgate]

Was that public outrage or just mild-keep it to yourself-annoyance? Because I don't remember any fiscal conservatives starting threads about how much we spent on the war.

[Hands Sandon]

Since the Federal Reserve is unaccountable to anyone, how can "we" get rid of it?

I think it'll change itself, to further broaden global agendas of monetary union, that governments are willingly establishing, indeed enforcing, all be it at our expense and enslavement, effectively. Unless that were to change, which realistically can't, the FED will remain, tweaking itself to stay in the game. Getting rid of the FED, isn't necessarily any solution at all given the worlds powers use debt as a weapon to control rather than to empower. Messed up, that's what it is.

[involuntary_serf]

Was that public outrage or just mild-keep it to yourself-annoyance? Because I don't remember any fiscal conservatives starting threads about how much we spent on the war.

Is this how it works? If you didn't see it, read it or hear it hear, it didn't exist?

:rolleyes:

There are plenty of what I would call "fiscal conservatives" (probably those of a more libertarian bent) that we quite furious about the spendthrift ways of Bush (whether for war or everything else).

One problem I often see is that people equate republican with conservative or republican with fiscal conservative or anyone critical of the new administration with being "conservative" or being republican. This is a problem because these are not all one uniform set of people. They might be overlapping sets.

These assumptions are a huge barrier to rational discussion.

Let's ditch the labels (and the assumptions about who's what) and deal with actual statements and (most importantly) actions. For example I judge Barack Obama by his actions first and his words (only when actual action is absent on a given topic). Same with Bush (but he's history now and, personally, I'm dealing with the present).

[SpamSandwich]

Was that public outrage or just mild-keep it to yourself-annoyance? Because I don't remember any fiscal conservatives starting threads about how much we spent on the war.

Perhaps because in the face of a booming economy (relatively speaking, of course) you won't find any fiscal conservatives... just "toss more money on the fire" populists.

[involuntary_serf]

Unless that were to change, which realistically can't

The government will not unseat the Fed and the Fed will not surrender. This much is certain. The only remaining option is for people to abandon the Fed by abandoning the Fed's monetary system (Federal Reserve Notes). This will happen when people begin to lose faith in it and flee FRNs in favor of some other stable, valuable monetary commodity (mostly likely gold).

Throughout history fiat monetary systems have destroyed themselves (by devaluing themselves). It will happen again. Thinking "it's different this time" or "they're smarter this time" denies the fundamental problems that underly them...a lack of any real value. Value and wealth cannot be printed up out of thin air. It simply isn't possible but that's exactly what they're trying to do right now.

[NOFEER]

we are not on the gold standard

the fed was designed to help moderate the business cycle

the fed caused the margin bubble of the twenties

the fed and govt policies created a depression out of a recession

govt doesn't want a gold standard because that would put a limit on govt spending
and they love to spend

[jazzguru]

No one seems to mind when it's printed willy-nilly to fight a war in Iraq. Or to be palleted, shrink wrapped and air lifted to Afghanistan.

I minded. Apparently the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of GWB's administration didn't. They kept voting to fund the wars.

Apparently they still don't.

[SpamSandwich]

I minded. Apparently the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of GWB's administration didn't. They kept voting to fund the wars.

Apparently they still don't.

Good point. As long as everyone is able to keep lining their own pockets, who cares right?

[Hands Sandon]

The government will not unseat the Fed and the Fed will not surrender. This much is certain. The only remaining option is for people to abandon the Fed by abandoning the Fed's monetary system (Federal Reserve Notes). This will happen when people begin to lose faith in it and flee FRNs in favor of some other stable, valuable monetary commodity (mostly likely gold).

Throughout history fiat monetary systems have destroyed themselves (by devaluing themselves). It will happen again. Thinking "it's different this time" or "they're smarter this time" denies the fundamental problems that underly them...a lack of any real value. Value and wealth cannot be printed up out of thin air. It simply isn't possible but that's exactly what they're trying to do right now.

I just had some crazy wifi trouble and lost my first reply. So....

The system isn't changing from fiat . Sure many are placing their money in gold like China and Russia, due, in part, to fears of a devaluing dollar, but notice that those same countries are also wanting a new global currency, in part because exchange rates can't be manipulated, not at least when it's fully implemented.

[involuntary_serf]

The system isn't changing from fiat.

Probably not real soon, no.

[jimmac]

I minded. Apparently the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of GWB's administration didn't. They kept voting to fund the wars.

Apparently they still don't.

Remember though the republicans ( who at the time had a long standing president in the White house that started this war ) stressed that we must be responsible for the how we continue in Iraq. " Support the troops! " they'd shout. The Democrats didn't want to appear unsupportive I'm sure. If they hadn't the republicans would have been harping on that ( which they did anyway ). Plus it's the responsible thing to do remember?

[jazzguru]

Remember though the republicans ( who at the time had a long standing president in the White house that started this war ) stressed that we must be responsible for the how we continue in Iraq. " Support the troops! " they'd shout. The Democrats didn't want to appear unsupportive I'm sure. If they hadn't the republicans would have been harping on that ( which they did anyway ). Plus it's the responsible thing to do remember?

Wasn't it the Democrats who tried to push the idea that bringing home the troops safe and sound IS supporting them? Or am I thinking of just a fringe group (ala Cindy Sheehan and her supporters)?

[Frank777]

Since the Federal Reserve is unaccountable to anyone, how can "we" get rid of it?

Republicans want accountability? When did that happen?

Sammi's a Republican? When did that happen?

[sammi jo]

Sammi's a Republican? When did that happen?

:lol:

Sorry, no party support from me, for either side of the coin. Neither of them represent me, nor the greater majority of my circle of family, friends, acquaintances, peers and colleagues. (For sure, most of them vote for one or the other, but mostly out of force of habit, family tradition, the need to feel as if their votes do count for something (!!!!!... as if :lol: ... or whatever). The "divide" between the "two" parties is largely false and contrived, largely a media construct/sham, which serves to keep the public under the impression that democracy is still relevant, and the people still have a voice. We do have a voice of sorts at the local level, but the further up the political ladder one goes, that voice is rendered mute or hijacked by lobbies that do not share the interests of the nation, or its people.

Re. the Federal Reserve: Several documentaries to watch: The late Aaron Russo's "From Freedom to Fascism" is great. Part 3 of Zeitgeist is another Libertarian favorite, as is G. Edward Griffin's "Creature from Jekyll Island (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0912986409/qid=1087168394/sr=1-1)" ... a must read, for those interested. One thing is absolutely undeniable ... the Federal Reserve was created was created in a most stealthy and secretive manner (http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/smith/smith5.html) and the the FRA through Congress on Christmas Eve when almost everybody at home with their families, no coincidence. Fiat money is fake money and the system of fractional reserve banking enslaves us all to eternal debt... except for a few.

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks….will deprive the people of all property until their children wakeup homeless on the continent their fathers conquered….The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs". Thomas Jefferson

[Gilsch]

I minded. Apparently the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of GWB's administration didn't. They kept voting to fund the wars.

Apparently they still don't.

No kidding. Attaching the funding bills to others and then accusing them of anti patriots for not wanting to "support the troops". Did you forget that part or is it not convenient to mention it? The invasion should never have happened to begin with. Weapons of mass destruction! Mushroom cloud! WMDs! WMDs! Uhh...Saddam was a bad guy.

By the way, it should be the Democratic controlled congress. ;)

I've watched Zeitgeist, but I've never researched how accurate it is. Has anyone?

[Northgate]

I minded. Apparently the Democrat controlled Congress the last 2 years of GWB's administration didn't. They kept voting to fund the wars.

Apparently they still don't.

Wait, wait, wait. It wasn't that long ago (a few months) when the media and the outraged right in this country PUMMELED ANY candidate who said they wanted to bring the troops home immediately. They were instantly labeled "careless" and "weak on terrorism".

The media and Republicans FORCED every candidate to capitulate on Iraq. They got what they wanted. If you wanted to get elected into office in this country then you had only one choice but to continue supporting the war otherwise be labeled "looney left" and "irresponsible" and "unfit for command".

[involuntary_serf]

The media and Republicans FORCED every candidate to capitulate on Iraq.

No they didn't. Stop with the hyperbole already.


If you wanted to get elected into office in this country then you had only one choice but to continue supporting the war otherwise be labeled "looney left" and "irresponsible" and "unfit for command".

So they lacked the courage of their convictions. They desired power over principle.

Frankly this rationalization for their actions by Democratic party apologists is getting tired and, dare I say, despicable. Those who voted (continually) for the wars should just own up to it and admit they were wrong. This bullshit defense that they were pressured or duped amounts to nothing more that a "gutless and doofus" defense. Mature people take responsibility for their freely chosen actions.

[Hands Sandon]

No kidding. Attaching the funding bills to others and then accusing them of anti patriots for not wanting to "support the troops". Did you forget that part or is it not convenient to mention it? The invasion should never have happened to begin with. Weapons of mass destruction! Mushroom cloud! WMDs! WMDs! Uhh...Saddam was a bad guy.

By the way, it should be the Democratic controlled congress. ;)

I've watched Zeitgeist, but I've never researched how accurate it is. Has anyone?

If you haven't already, you might want to watch Screw Loose Change-Not Freakin' Again edition http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=911+conspiracy&www_google_domain=www.google.com&emb=0&aq=1&oq=911#q=911+conspiracy+debunked&emb=0&start=200 It's about 30 videos down on my browser.

My own views and many of the friends I've known, have had similar thoughts on Christianity copying other religions. But, from my personal experiences, my outlook changed over fifteen years ago and suffice is to say that whilst Zeitgeist may well have truth to it, it doesn't change my own experiences. Before that however, if it had been around, I would have held it up as gospel, so to speak.

C.H. Douglas is worth reading, though his style of writing is dated, regarding the banks. Nonetheless I say, be careful what you wish for, as there are pluses to a system that exerts so much pressure on constant growth.

[Bergermeister]

Mature people take responsibility for their freely chosen actions.

GW? Cheney? Rummy? The list is long.

[involuntary_serf]

GW? Cheney? Rummy? The list is long.

No doubt. But it doesn't include only republicans. That's the point. I'm not defending republicans in this mess. Accusing and/or criticizing or calling for accountability from one group doesn't imply defense of another group.

See there's a lot of finger pointing going on and very little owning up (from either side).

The Democrats want us to believe that they are wise, smart and informed enough to run the entire country but also dumb and gullible and weak willed enough to by cajoled into continually supporting and funding two wars and torture to boot (among other things).

[involuntary_serf]

But...back on topic...wouldn't it be nice if we could put an end to the Fed?

[ronaldo]

Here is another interesting tidbit.

In 1963, President John Kennedy wanted an end to the Federal Reserve System, which had a strangle-hold on the United States and virtually the world. By a simple stroke of the pen, President Kennedy dismissed the Federal Reserve System and ordered the U.S. governmcnt to restore its Constitutional-mandate of controlling the money. President Kennedy was dead three weeks later. When President Lyndon Johnson took office, he immediately rescinded Kennedy's order and the Federal Reserve won another round.

[Hands Sandon]

Here is another interesting tidbit.

In 1963, President John Kennedy wanted an end to the Federal Reserve System, which had a strangle-hold on the United States and virtually the world. By a simple stroke of the pen, President Kennedy dismissed the Federal Reserve System and ordered the U.S. governmcnt to restore its Constitutional-mandate of controlling the money. President Kennedy was dead three weeks later. When President Lyndon Johnson took office, he immediately rescinded Kennedy's order and the Federal Reserve won another round.

And they were interest free.

[sammi jo]

Here is another interesting tidbit.

In 1963, President John Kennedy wanted an end to the Federal Reserve System, which had a strangle-hold on the United States and virtually the world. By a simple stroke of the pen, President Kennedy dismissed the Federal Reserve System and ordered the U.S. governmcnt to restore its Constitutional-mandate of controlling the money. President Kennedy was dead three weeks later. When President Lyndon Johnson took office, he immediately rescinded Kennedy's order and the Federal Reserve won another round.

You're surely not suggesting that Lee Harvey Oswald's motivation for JFK's murder was to prevent the possible dissembling of the Federal Reserve system at the hands of the JFK administration?

On a parallel, was the motivation for John Wilkes Booth to assassinate Lincoln to protect the banking system from Lincoln's issuance of "Greenbacks" interest-free, debt-free currency?

:p

[ronaldo]

You're surely not suggesting that Lee Harvey Oswald's motivation for JFK's murder was to prevent the possible dissembling of the Federal Reserve system at the hands of the JFK administration?

On a parallel, was the motivation for John Wilkes Booth to assassinate Lincoln to protect the banking system from Lincoln's issuance of "Greenbacks" interest-free, debt-free currency?

:p

Maybe just a coincidence.
http://www.illuminati-news.com/kennedy-assassin.htm

[sammi jo]

HR 1207, introduced by Rep. Ron Paul (R), Texas (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1207/show) has now got 224 sponsors, with Rep. Kucinich (D) OH being the 218th, taking HR 1207 out of Committee to a full debate in Congress. All indications are that this Bill is going to have a rough time, especially in the Senate, and will probably get defeated, and Federal Reserve is marshaling all the lobbying power at their disposal to keep this bill from becoming law.

This bill is seeking accountability and transparency re. the "Federal" Reserve. Why would such a standard concept in an official institution be seen as such a threat? What kind of practices might be threatened (or even stopped) by the legal requirement of such accountability?

[FloorJack]

I'm coming to this thread late but doesn't the head of the fed serve at the pleasure of the president. You know, The One, Obama!

[Frank777]

HR 1207, introduced by Rep. Ron Paul (R), Texas (http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h1207/show) has now got 224 sponsors, with Rep. Kucinich (D) OH being the 218th, taking HR 1207 out of Committee to a full debate in Congress. All indications are that this Bill is going to have a rough time, especially in the Senate, and will probably get defeated, and Federal Reserve is marshaling all the lobbying power at their disposal to keep this bill from becoming law.

This bill is seeking accountability and transparency re. the "Federal" Reserve. Why would such a standard concept in an official institution be seen as such a threat? What kind of practices might be threatened (or even stopped) by the legal requirement of such accountability?

This is so long overdue it's unbelievable. Paul's done a great job with this.

It's unfortunate the left and right couldn't unite to get things like this done before the crash. Of course, it's no coincidence that many of the fights over hot button culture issues like same-sex marriage are being funded by incredibly wealthy interests, precisely to keep both sides apart and prevent things like this from happening.

[jazzguru]

Federal Reserve to gain power under plan (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/16/plan-gives-fed-sweeping-power-over-companies/?feat=home_headlines)

The final plan due to be released on Wednesday -- which originally aimed to streamline and consolidate banking and securities regulation in one or two agencies -- now is expected to sidestep most jurisdictional disputes and simply impose across the board standards to be applied by all financial regulators, according to administration and industry sources.

[SDW2001]

Federal Reserve to gain power under plan (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jun/16/plan-gives-fed-sweeping-power-over-companies/?feat=home_headlines)

It's amazing what a house of cards our financial system is. As much a I fret about the deficit, debt, etc--one has to wonder if the numbers truly mean anything anymore. Are China and Japan really going to stop buying treasuries (together they own 45% of US foreign debt---which itself is about 25% of the total public debt)? The rest of it is owed to ourselves. One has to wonder.