Despite Foxconn troubles, Apple "unlikely" to change supplier
Industry sources suggest Apple will not cease its manufacturing business arrangement with Foxconn, even as questions over the Chinese company's alleged interrogation tactics continue to mount.
Citing Taiwanese sources, DigiTimes said speculation that Apple would end its partnership with Foxconn is unlikely to come to pass.
"Players from the component sector said such a change is unlikely to happen because product development involves collaboration on technologies that cannot be easily transferred to other makers," the report states.
This as allegations have surfaced that Apple investigated complaints about Foxconn well before the alleged suicide of a 25-year-old Chinese man last week. According to eWeek, Apple audited Foxconn in 2006 after reports surfaced in a British newspaper about supposed poor working conditions in the Chinese factories.
This month, the company's foreign factories came under fire again, as a new investigation found that 45 of the 83 factories that built iPhones and iPods in 2008 weren't paying valid overtime rates, and 23 weren't even paying some of their workers China's minimum wage.
Sun Danyong allegedly killed himself after a prototype he was responsible for -- reportedly a fourth-generation iPhone -- went missing. Prior to his death, friends said he told them he was subjected to "unbearable interrogation techniques" by Foxconn employees, leading some to believe he was beaten. Sun reportedly had his property seized and was held in solitary confinement before he jumped from a 12-story building last week.
As the story began to spread, Apple issued a response.
"We are saddened by the tragic loss of this young employee and we are awaiting results of the investigations into his death," an Apple spokesperson said. "We require our suppliers to treat all workers with dignity and respect."
Chinese newspaper Southern Metropolis Daily, as relayed by DigiTimes, said Foxconn has reached a settlement with the family of Sun. The paper said it obtained closed-circuit TV footage of Sun's interviews, but stated there was no indication that he was beaten.
Citing Taiwanese sources, DigiTimes said speculation that Apple would end its partnership with Foxconn is unlikely to come to pass.
"Players from the component sector said such a change is unlikely to happen because product development involves collaboration on technologies that cannot be easily transferred to other makers," the report states.
This as allegations have surfaced that Apple investigated complaints about Foxconn well before the alleged suicide of a 25-year-old Chinese man last week. According to eWeek, Apple audited Foxconn in 2006 after reports surfaced in a British newspaper about supposed poor working conditions in the Chinese factories.
This month, the company's foreign factories came under fire again, as a new investigation found that 45 of the 83 factories that built iPhones and iPods in 2008 weren't paying valid overtime rates, and 23 weren't even paying some of their workers China's minimum wage.
Sun Danyong allegedly killed himself after a prototype he was responsible for -- reportedly a fourth-generation iPhone -- went missing. Prior to his death, friends said he told them he was subjected to "unbearable interrogation techniques" by Foxconn employees, leading some to believe he was beaten. Sun reportedly had his property seized and was held in solitary confinement before he jumped from a 12-story building last week.
As the story began to spread, Apple issued a response.
"We are saddened by the tragic loss of this young employee and we are awaiting results of the investigations into his death," an Apple spokesperson said. "We require our suppliers to treat all workers with dignity and respect."
Chinese newspaper Southern Metropolis Daily, as relayed by DigiTimes, said Foxconn has reached a settlement with the family of Sun. The paper said it obtained closed-circuit TV footage of Sun's interviews, but stated there was no indication that he was beaten.
Comments
Questions remain as Foxconn reportedly reaches settlement with family of dead engineer
Rodney Chan, DIGITIMES, Taipei [Friday 24 July 2009]
Foxconn (Hon Hai Precision Industry) is said to have reached a preliminary agreement with the family of an engineer who is believed to have killed himself after losing a prototype unit of Apple's next-generation iPhone.
The Southern Metropolis Daily ? which first reported the death of engineer, Sun Danyong, at Foxconn's massive manufacturing base in Shenzhen, China ? did not indicate the terms of the agreement.
But the paper said Sun's body was already cremated on July 22.
Apple, which has Foxconn make many of its products at the Shenzhen base, has confirmed the death of the engineer, and an Apple spokesperson in Hong Kong has been cited by the Associated Press as saying that "We require our suppliers to treat all workers with dignity and respect."
The remark is apparently a response to allegations that Sun had been mistreated and even beaten by managers investigating the loss of the device.
The Southern Metropolis Daily on July 23 said it had obtained CCTV footage of the interviews where Sun was questioned by managers, but there was no indication in the footage that the engineer was beaten.
But the news has failed to convince skeptics, the paper said, citing some readers as questioning whether the footage could really clear Foxconn of the beating allegations.
Some other readers said the case highlighted Foxconn's alleged violation of human rights by searching the engineer's dormitory room for the lost device.
Some questions may never be answered, such as what really drove the engineer to kill himself, or how the device was lost. And Apple is unlikely to confirm what actually was lost.
The body has been cremated......already. There goes the chance for an independent autopsy. A settlement with his family? How much was the kid's life worth I wonder.....a year's worth of rice to feed the family?
They are really trying hard to sweep this one under the rug huh? Where is the justice?
Will the tablet help people forget about this? Mactouch ftw.....not.
Here is the article:
The body has been cremated......already. There goes the chance for an independent autopsy. A settlement with his family? How much was the kid's life worth I wonder.....a year's worth of rice to feed the family? They are really trying hard to sweep this one under the rug huh? Where is the justice? Will the tablet help people forget about this? Mactouch ftw.....not.
Whatever. There's an investigation. And all the factories are the same. If the factory broke any laws... then Apple is responsible to take measures to fix things. But they didn't push the kid out the window.
Whatever. There's an investigation. And all the factories are the same. If the factory broke any laws... then Apple is responsible to take measures to fix things. But they didn't push the kid out the window.
They might as well have. And those Foxconn bastards sure as hell did! If those are the types of people Apple insists on doing buisness with then they are accessories to murder! How the hell am I supposed to bring myself to purchase future Apple products knowing this?
They might as well have. And those Foxconn bastards sure as hell did! If those are the types of people Apple insists on doing buisness with then they are accessories to murder! How the hell am I supposed to bring myself to purchase future Apple products knowing this?
Well said. It is refreshing to see someone hold Apple accountable for such things unlike most of the people on this forum that worship at the Apple and Jobs altar!
How the hell am I supposed to bring myself to purchase future Apple products knowing this?
Do you ask yourself that question while gazing at your reflection in your glossy screen Mac?
Do you ask yourself that question while gazing at your reflection in your glossy screen Mac?
I don't own a mac. I own a 2nd gen ipod touch and a ipod nano and that's all. The music I have has been mostly bought at amazon and some old .mp3s ripped from CDs from years back.
I've been eyeing Apple for a couple years now wondering whether I should buy a mac. PC gaming keeps me from buying one and the uneasiness I feel sometimes over Apple's draconian control approach to computing.
This situation now sure as hell isn't helping.
Changing the supplier will not make a difference. Putting some non-Chinese Apple staff into the factory 24/7 and running an independent complaint center, instead of relying on annual spot-checks might...
That might not be an option. Remember that this is a factory in another country, with its own laws etc. Apple has to follow those laws. They can't just demand putting their people in factories and such and get it because they want it. the hoops, regulations etc might make it impossible.
Whatever. There's an investigation. And all the factories are the same. If the factory broke any laws... then Apple is responsible to take measures to fix things.
Again, this is another country, one where Apple doesn't have extreme power. even here in the US there is little the company can do on its own. it has to work with and within our laws.
Also, there seems to be a lack of evidence that the young man was beaten and the verbiage used is highly inflammatory. Illegal Search, Solitary Confinement, Detained. the use of the phrase dormitory room begs the question, who owned it and what 'landlord' privileges existed (is it possible that the employer owned said room and the right to search it was in the deal). Isolating the young man from anyone else while the room was being searched and while questioning to keep him from passing information to a partner isn't that far fetched etc. and there are even differing stories about the timeline, when the missing item was discovered and where. One version makes it sound like he found the error and reported it 4 days later, another that he sent the package and one was missing when it got to the US 4 days later and he never said a word (sure would look like he was guilty of something if he signed they were all in the box and sealed it himself).
The only easy to agree item is that the company should have called the police and turned him over to them for all the questioning etc. Not handled it 'in house' as it seems they were. But it is possible that they were a tad embarrassed and worried that in fact Apple could pull the contract or least not renew it and cost them a small fortune. Word got out on them in the end but the motives behind not calling the cops might not have been as Mafia as the papers are painting it.
and until all those issues are settled, I"m not screaming 'off with their heads' on anyone. Foxconn or Apple. I'm saving that for when we have the actual facts.
and the uneasiness I feel sometimes over Apple's draconian control approach to computing.
All tech companies try to keep what they are working on a secret. Apple is no different. As for the restricted hardware, they provide company trained tech support. much of it for free to the customers. if they opened things up to every possible configuration, they couldn't do that support. and it would make eliminating bugs and such a lot harder than it is now.
if you don't like either issue, don't agree with it, etc. then don't buy a mac.
Just ensure that Foxconn meets a certain level of standards.
Apparently there's no proof as to whether the employee was roughed up by security, etc. But that's neither here nor there.
The suicide is unfortunate, but it isn't Apple's responsibility. Apple themselves conducted the earlier investigation, and they'll likely handle this matter properly.
Yesterday another "famous person" commented on the stupidity of the cops for their LEGAL actions when taunted by a an irrational black racist, & now we similarly have comments on the horrible behavior of Foxconn. The video of the interrogation of the suicidal employee showed NO beating yet the commenters still insist that he was beaten. I'm not defending Apple or Foxconn, but at least let the facts come out before you cast aspersions on people you might happen to not like.
Please don't bring up that situation. It is not related. A mistake by a cop who was just trying to secure the scene is not the same as chinese security/jailers torturing and murdering a guy because of a lost cell phone. Please.....don't. Oh, and it's not the commenters insisting....he was tortured.
And all the facts are quickly being buried as we speak by chinese government controlled police and media.
Why change?
Just ensure that Foxconn meets a certain level of standards.
Apparently there's no proof as to whether the employee was roughed up by security, etc. But that's neither here nor there.
The suicide is unfortunate, but it isn't Apple's responsibility. Apple themselves conducted the earlier investigation, and they'll likely handle this matter properly.
But that earlier "investigation" was a joke! Nothing was done to improve the situation of the workers...I mean come on!
Why change?
Just ensure that Foxconn meets a certain level of standards.
Apparently there's no proof as to whether the employee was roughed up by security, etc. But that's neither here nor there.
The suicide is unfortunate, but it isn't Apple's responsibility. Apple themselves conudcted the investigation, and they'll likely handle the matter properly.
I agree they should try and ensure Foxconn meets a certain level of standards, but should Foxconn go unpunished? And what have they done so far to ensure those standards? What have they done other than the bare minimum expected of them so they can just brush this under the carpet and continue with their profits?
It does seem odd to me that a man would take his one and only life. Was he so ashamed that he let Apple down or was it out of fear? Perhaps he couldn't take the torturous interrogations anymore.
Either way, if Apple doesn't do anything, I wouldn't be surprised. It's all about profits, and where else will you find cheaper manufacturing than a border-line slave labor factory in China?
I don't own a mac. I own a 2nd gen ipod touch and a ipod nano and that's all. The music I have has been mostly bought at amazon and some old .mp3s ripped from CDs from years back.
I've been eyeing Apple for a couple years now wondering whether I should buy a mac. PC gaming keeps me from buying one and the uneasiness I feel sometimes over Apple's draconian control approach to computing.
This situation now sure as hell isn't helping.
Listen I live in NYC. How many people died while building the Empire State building? Weren't those workers exploited to an extent? Now do I ask myself " How can I enter that building knowing that?" No I don't.
As for the draconian control - it has its advantages and disadvantages- just like everything else in life. However, the advantages far outway the disadvantages when choosing Mac for your digital life. Buy the Mac, you'll see.
And justice will hopefully play out in this case.
Please don't bring up that situation. It is not related. A mistake by a cop who was just trying to secure the scene is not the same as chinese security/jailers torturing and murdering a guy because of a lost cell phone. Please.....don't. Oh, and it's not the commenters insisting....he was tortured.
And all the facts are quickly being buried as we speak by chinese government controlled police and media.
What kind of torture was it? Do we know? Was it Chinese water torture or Dick Cheney style waterboarding torture?
How the hell am I supposed to bring myself to purchase future Apple products knowing this?
You should ask the same question when purchasing gadgets and hardware by Dell, HP, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Motorola, Amazon... They all use Foxconn, too. You might find it hard, in fact, to not buy Foxconn-made electronics.
Why change?
who is to say that all the other companies aren't exactly the same.
Oh, and it's not the commenters insisting....he was tortured.
you know this for fact cause you were there. just like you were there to hear the police say they were going to cover it up
no, you likely were not. so you don't KNOW the facts you claim to be facts. You are getting your information from the media who are using tabloid tactics like "friends of . . ." and "sources within . . ." making the media version (which hasn't even stayed the same by a long shot) highly suspect
But that earlier "investigation" was a joke! Nothing was done to improve the situation of the workers...I mean come on!
I agree they should try and ensure Foxconn meets a certain level of standards, but should Foxconn go unpunished? And what have they done so far to ensure those standards? What have they done other than the bare minimum expected of them so they can just brush this under the carpet and continue with their profits?
this is a factory in another country, under different laws and regulations. Apple has limited power there and thus limits to what they can do.
ask yourself two questions
1. where are all the other computers, media players, phones selling in the US being built. is every last one of them start to finish being done in the US. probably not. perhaps assembled here, but I doubt that every piece comes only from US factories
2. what are you doing to get the US government to encourage companies to stay in the states. Tax breaks and such.
That might not be an option. Remember that this is a factory in another country, with its own laws etc. Apple has to follow those laws. They can't just demand putting their people in factories and such and get it because they want it. the hoops, regulations etc might make it impossible.
I know several German companies that have permanent staff in Chinese factories for quality control reasons, so it is more a question of negotiations and contracts and dedication. Apple is the one paying here. The could e.g. consult with the FLA. They have talked to several Chinese government officials and the (official) government's stance has been supportive. One thing is for sure: simply waving annual audits is no longer good enough... Selling "Blood Diamond" on the iTS does not compensate for doing same-same.
They might as well have. And those Foxconn bastards sure as hell did! If those are the types of people Apple insists on doing buisness with then they are accessories to murder! How the hell am I supposed to bring myself to purchase future Apple products knowing this?
Really?
I hope you also don't purchase or use anything made by Intel, Dell, Hewlett-Packard, Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft, Motorola, Amazon, or Cisco either. (And if you do, I hope you'll plan to give it away).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn
(I see that vercordia also posted something similar, above).
... The body has been cremated......already. There goes the chance for an independent autopsy. ....
You've been watching too many action adventures me thinks. Perhaps your a birther as well?
What are you even implying here? That he was pushed? Drugged? I mean what's the scenario? Apple called up Foxcon who hired some goons to come over and push him out a window because he lost the prototype? Don't you realise how completely nuts that sounds?
There is no evidence that anything other than some harsh words were exchanged during the interrogation. It was videotaped and people who saw the tape said as much.
A person doesn't commit suicide unless they are basically neurotic or weak-willed to begin with. This is pretty obviously a nervous guy who's resolve or self-esteem collapsed under duress. He then made an unfortunate and irrevocable decision that he couldn't take back. It's sad, it's regrettable, and China in general and Foxconn in particular needs to look at how they treat their employees if they feel driven to such lengths, but that's it.