Think about it: 14" LCD, 600 MHz G3, 20 Gig, 128 Ram, no speakers, CD-ROM why couldn't it happen? I mean just to get in the door with some people... and for the education market... Isn't it better then having 2 CRT iMacs?
Think about it: 14" LCD, 600 MHz G3, 20 Gig, 128 Ram, no speakers, CD-ROM why couldn't it happen? I mean just to get in the door with some people... and for the education market... Isn't it better then having 2 CRT iMacs?</strong><hr></blockquote>
too small (MacOS X blabla, big Fonts etc. blabla)
too slow (Pentium is at x.xGHz)
too small (my stolen MP3s blabla)
too small (MacOS X blabla, minimum)
wtf? (Digital Hub blabla, no Sound blabla)
wtf? (backup blabla, my stolen MP3s blabla)
not my personal view (but I´m in a really bad mood this morning), but something like that would have been said about it.
<strong>too small (MacOS X blabla, big Fonts etc. blabla)</strong><hr></blockquote>
The current CRT iMac has a smaller viewable size then a 14" LCD. your point is, well wrong.
[quote]<strong>too slow (Pentium is at x.xGHz)</strong><hr></blockquote>
ummm it would be the same speed that the CRTs are currently selling at... Wrong again...
[quote]<strong>too small (my stolen MP3s blabla)</strong><hr></blockquote>
umm 20 gigs isnt all that small. and it is for the education market not people who are online 24/7 with a cable modem stealing music (besides, people who can afford a cable modem can afford a bigger HD or a better iMac)
[quote]<strong>too small (MacOS X blabla, minimum)</strong><hr></blockquote>128 is the minimum and people complain about Apple NOT giving them that choice.. RAM is cheap anyway, people can add it later...
[quote]<strong>wtf? (Digital Hub blabla, no Sound blabla)</strong><hr></blockquote> I was going for the no apple pro speakers like on the current low end iMac... sorry for not being clearer...
[quote]<strong>wtf? (backup blabla, my stolen MP3s blabla)</strong><hr></blockquote>
for the market that this is for, a CDROM would be plenty, if they wanted to Burn CDs they would get the $1299 version or use an ext. burner...
[quote]<strong>not my personal view (but I´m in a really bad mood this morning), but something like that would have been said about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would hope you are not this incoherant normally...
All of your points were not well-founded... does anyone else have any meaningful reasons why a $999 iMac would not be feasable?
I don't think there's a need to introduce a $999 iMac with lower specs right now. Apple is already struggling to keep up with demand, and the low end model won't even be shipping until March. For those who need cheaper models, the old CRT iMacs are still available.
My guess is that there'll be a minor revision (Speed bump, hard drive) to the LCD iMac at MWNY or early in the fall, and by the time the Christmas buying season starts, the low end model will be available for $999 (though probably with a rebate coupon).
Belle and Cobra get the point exactly. Apple doesn't want a low-powered (i.e. G3) "cheapo" new iMac. They want the new iMac to stand for power and progress, if not revolution. Such a stunning machine cannot possibly be powered by a second-to-last generation chip. The rationale must be exactly the same as it was for the Cube, which didn't (and isn't going to) get a G3. But this time the price is just right.
Escher
PS to Belle: I hope you get to take a walk in Central Park before the snow melts away (if you haven't already). I always loved doing that to compensate for the immediately slushy and yucky streets.
999 is coming soon. They could have probably gotten close with a cheapo 8x burner and 20GB drive and still leave the 15" LCD alone. That's maybe 150 worth of parts difference. Maybe they could get another 50 off buy cutting the margins a tad, but the thing isn't even shipping yet so it's a little early for that. Ink jet printers are dirt cheap, it'd probably be better for Apple to bundle a budget ink-jet (or even scanner, or both) around the x-mas '02 seasom. **Instead of price cuts.** A lot of us don't need these but many first time buyers, converts holding on to ancient PC hardware, or macless families will.
I'm glad they didn't cut down the spec though. Especially on the CDrw drive. 8x is just too slow, 24x is nice and fast.
Before long the $1299 iMac will come down to that price. Apple's not going to have a smaller LCD and G3 new iMac. It just isn't gunna happen. That's what the CRT models are for.
Ramping up the new iMacs means slow production output for the next several months. These are not easy 'puters to build. Apple was smart to start production now so that by years end everything will be going smoothly. I seriously doubt there will be an under $1000 iMac this year. At the analyst meeting Apple execs. said prices for displays had risen in November. Reports on the internet say demand is exceeding supply. This means prices going up not down. Organic displays, the next technology for flat screens, are coming on line in cell phones this year. Don't expect any large format screens until 2003. They will be brighter and suposedly less expensive to make.
<strong>I think we'll see the low end iMac at $1000 for education only at MWNY. It'll have a CD-ROM and only 64MB of RAM and a small hard disk.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe CD-ROM but no lower than 128MB RAM. Also, what do you consider a small HD?
I dont want to see just a CD iMac, that really defies the digital hub.
No Burning CDs.
No Burning Photo CDs.
No Burning of Home Movies
And so on
Besides, what is the price of a CD vs CD-R drive? Not that much, I suppose. Also, why have a Mac with only 64 megs of RAM? RAM, although it just went, is still cheap.
Well, as an educator (though not in a classroom), I can tell you that crt's make alot of sense. I don't need to see screens twisted all over the place and then have to replace the WHOLE MACHINE when one gets cracked.
Also BusinessWeek on-line mentioned that the new iMac in it's current form was about as cheap as they could get with basic materials for the box and screen being $600. That means the guts of the computer would need to be $300 to give even a very small 10% margin. Now if schools buy in large quantities, that margin may make business sense, but we have no knowledge of that.
Also as an educator who works with lots of teachers, I am not sure that what teacher's need is a "digital hub." I think schools are getting there, but what schools need now is wordprocessing, internet and inputs for science devices in labs sometimes. A "digital hub" becomes a disadvantage in classes other than a media class.
I would posit that what is really needed is not a $999 LCD iMac for schools, but a $500 crt iMac for schools. Lets hope they get there soon.
PS....and to answer your question, no, for schools it isn't better than 2 crt iMacs.
I think that getting the superdrive down to 1499 is going to take at least 12 months. That is one expensive drive, and other models (from other manufacturers) are just coming on line now. Maybe we'll see a big boom in DVD-r and prices will drop dramatically, but it'll still take a year. That is a slightly older DVD-R drive, there are newer DVD+RW drives out there. The specs are slightly different. If I recall, discs burned in DVD+RW might have some issues playing back in older DVD drives. But you only get DVD-R with the Apple drives. This is still a little muddy, errr...
I think Apple could offer just one speed of new iMac and differentiate with just the optical & hard drives. Or, make the superdrive a BTO delete option (like the powermacs). I'd love to have a top spec iMac with that yummy 24x CDRW drive and get a seperate DVD drive when a clearer picture of the standards has evolved.
BTW, will these drives be able to support double layer media? I've never even seen dual layer media.
<strong>You are right. The iMacs are too expensive for school, even a headless LCD iMac. Im thinkin a new kind of apple pizza box.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well that's why the CRT iMacs are around still. Once the price of the LCD iMac goes down there won't be a problem.
I think the original post here makes a lot of sense. Why stock a CRT iMac now for the educational market? Standardize on LCDs, and ofer something unique in the educational market. MWNY is too late I believe for purchase decisions, but someone in that field would know about the cutoff date.
I think what is stopping this form happening is just the ability to ramp up production. Apple wants to concentrate the uniqueness of the iMac where it can make the biggest impact for now. Later, we will not doubt see several variations on this design. It's just too new to be used in more places right now. Possible, there could be something else yet to come for education, and a lower end market, but it makes sense to start out where the new iMac is right now.
If you are thinking about the education market you have to talk to teachers....and they think of three things:
1. Cost, crt's are still cheaper.
2. Ease of use, crt's and LCD's are the same as desktops, if mobility is an issue, you get iBooks anyway. Why buy an lcd iMac that is (to a teacher) merely a really heavy, awkward iBook.
3. Durability, crt's are much more rugged.
4. Security, crt's are alot harder to steal and are not as cool to steal anymore.
Whatever other stuff you guys come up with is irrelevant to teachers.
Comments
<strong>Why couldn't Apple do this?
Think about it: 14" LCD, 600 MHz G3, 20 Gig, 128 Ram, no speakers, CD-ROM why couldn't it happen? I mean just to get in the door with some people... and for the education market... Isn't it better then having 2 CRT iMacs?</strong><hr></blockquote>
too small (MacOS X blabla, big Fonts etc. blabla)
too slow (Pentium is at x.xGHz)
too small (my stolen MP3s blabla)
too small (MacOS X blabla, minimum)
wtf? (Digital Hub blabla, no Sound blabla)
wtf? (backup blabla, my stolen MP3s blabla)
not my personal view (but I´m in a really bad mood this morning), but something like that would have been said about it.
bye.
[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: GnOm ]</p>
<strong>too small (MacOS X blabla, big Fonts etc. blabla)</strong><hr></blockquote>
The current CRT iMac has a smaller viewable size then a 14" LCD. your point is, well wrong.
[quote]<strong>too slow (Pentium is at x.xGHz)</strong><hr></blockquote>
ummm it would be the same speed that the CRTs are currently selling at... Wrong again...
[quote]<strong>too small (my stolen MP3s blabla)</strong><hr></blockquote>
umm 20 gigs isnt all that small. and it is for the education market not people who are online 24/7 with a cable modem stealing music (besides, people who can afford a cable modem can afford a bigger HD or a better iMac)
[quote]<strong>too small (MacOS X blabla, minimum)</strong><hr></blockquote>128 is the minimum and people complain about Apple NOT giving them that choice.. RAM is cheap anyway, people can add it later...
[quote]<strong>wtf? (Digital Hub blabla, no Sound blabla)</strong><hr></blockquote> I was going for the no apple pro speakers like on the current low end iMac... sorry for not being clearer...
[quote]<strong>wtf? (backup blabla, my stolen MP3s blabla)</strong><hr></blockquote>
for the market that this is for, a CDROM would be plenty, if they wanted to Burn CDs they would get the $1299 version or use an ext. burner...
[quote]<strong>not my personal view (but I´m in a really bad mood this morning), but something like that would have been said about it.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would hope you are not this incoherant normally...
All of your points were not well-founded... does anyone else have any meaningful reasons why a $999 iMac would not be feasable?
[EDIT]code[/EDIT]
[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: psantora ]</p>
My guess is that there'll be a minor revision (Speed bump, hard drive) to the LCD iMac at MWNY or early in the fall, and by the time the Christmas buying season starts, the low end model will be available for $999 (though probably with a rebate coupon).
I also firmly believe the 15" LCD screen size will be the minimum as well.
A CDR-W drive will be a minimum as well.
I am talking about the new iMacs.
I will also say that this will indeed be the last year of the CRT iMacs as well.
Escher
PS to Belle: I hope you get to take a walk in Central Park before the snow melts away (if you haven't already). I always loved doing that to compensate for the immediately slushy and yucky streets.
the base ibook is 1199...
but only 12.1, 500mhz, 15GB
i hear apples got this thing for margins...
I'm glad they didn't cut down the spec though. Especially on the CDrw drive. 8x is just too slow, 24x is nice and fast.
Source?
<strong>
Source?</strong><hr></blockquote>
it's not rocket science. you listen to the quarterly results stream
<strong>I think we'll see the low end iMac at $1000 for education only at MWNY. It'll have a CD-ROM and only 64MB of RAM and a small hard disk.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe CD-ROM but no lower than 128MB RAM. Also, what do you consider a small HD?
No Burning CDs.
No Burning Photo CDs.
No Burning of Home Movies
And so on
Besides, what is the price of a CD vs CD-R drive? Not that much, I suppose. Also, why have a Mac with only 64 megs of RAM? RAM, although it just went, is still cheap.
At MWNY I would hope to see:
$999
750 Mhz G4
128 (256?) MB RAM
GF2
15'' LCD
30 GB HD
CD-R
$1299
900 Mhz G4
256 (512?) MB RAM
GF2
15'' LCD
50 GB HD
Combo-drive
$1499
1033 Mhz G4
512 (MB RAM
GF2
15'' LCD
70 GB HD
Superdrive
Also BusinessWeek on-line mentioned that the new iMac in it's current form was about as cheap as they could get with basic materials for the box and screen being $600. That means the guts of the computer would need to be $300 to give even a very small 10% margin. Now if schools buy in large quantities, that margin may make business sense, but we have no knowledge of that.
Also as an educator who works with lots of teachers, I am not sure that what teacher's need is a "digital hub." I think schools are getting there, but what schools need now is wordprocessing, internet and inputs for science devices in labs sometimes. A "digital hub" becomes a disadvantage in classes other than a media class.
I would posit that what is really needed is not a $999 LCD iMac for schools, but a $500 crt iMac for schools. Lets hope they get there soon.
PS....and to answer your question, no, for schools it isn't better than 2 crt iMacs.
[ 01-20-2002: Message edited by: MacGregor ]</p>
I think Apple could offer just one speed of new iMac and differentiate with just the optical & hard drives. Or, make the superdrive a BTO delete option (like the powermacs). I'd love to have a top spec iMac with that yummy 24x CDRW drive and get a seperate DVD drive when a clearer picture of the standards has evolved.
BTW, will these drives be able to support double layer media? I've never even seen dual layer media.
<strong>You are right. The iMacs are too expensive for school, even a headless LCD iMac. Im thinkin a new kind of apple pizza box.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well that's why the CRT iMacs are around still. Once the price of the LCD iMac goes down there won't be a problem.
I think what is stopping this form happening is just the ability to ramp up production. Apple wants to concentrate the uniqueness of the iMac where it can make the biggest impact for now. Later, we will not doubt see several variations on this design. It's just too new to be used in more places right now. Possible, there could be something else yet to come for education, and a lower end market, but it makes sense to start out where the new iMac is right now.
1. Cost, crt's are still cheaper.
2. Ease of use, crt's and LCD's are the same as desktops, if mobility is an issue, you get iBooks anyway. Why buy an lcd iMac that is (to a teacher) merely a really heavy, awkward iBook.
3. Durability, crt's are much more rugged.
4. Security, crt's are alot harder to steal and are not as cool to steal anymore.
Whatever other stuff you guys come up with is irrelevant to teachers.