Berkeley sure has some stupid people on their City Council
This cracks me up. 
<a href="http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/1307113p-1375526c.html"; target="_blank">Berkeley approves supplying conscientious objector material</a>
Published 12:45 a.m. PST Wednesday, Dec. 12, 2001
[quote]BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) - Left-leaning Berkeley, already under fire for briefly banning big flags on fire trucks and opposing the bombing of Afghanistan, has voted to lend a hand to would-be conscientious objectors.
The Berkeley City Council voted Tuesday night to supply workers who answer the city's general information phones with material about the Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors.
The idea is to have information available so staff can refer anyone who calls asking about how to avoid military combat.
The measure had been scheduled for a vote Tuesday as part of the consent calendar, items that are passed without debate. But it was postponed for more discussion after Councilwoman Betty Olds said she wanted to see the item amended to include giving staff information about military recruitment for people who called wanting to enlist.
That amendment was rejected.
The proposal came from the city's Peace and Justice Commission, which adopted a resolution earlier this month noting Berkeley's "unique and honored tradition of promoting alternative social values and viewpoints including nonviolence and pacifism." "During this time of military action, especially, we felt it was important that young people, who are of an age to consider enrolling in the military, have the full range of information available to them," said commission member Steve Freedkin.
Freedkin said he doesn't know of any instances where someone has called the city to ask about avoiding the military, but it would be good for city staff to be prepared...<hr></blockquote>
[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
<a href="http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/1307113p-1375526c.html"; target="_blank">Berkeley approves supplying conscientious objector material</a>
Published 12:45 a.m. PST Wednesday, Dec. 12, 2001
[quote]BERKELEY, Calif. (AP) - Left-leaning Berkeley, already under fire for briefly banning big flags on fire trucks and opposing the bombing of Afghanistan, has voted to lend a hand to would-be conscientious objectors.
The Berkeley City Council voted Tuesday night to supply workers who answer the city's general information phones with material about the Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors.
The idea is to have information available so staff can refer anyone who calls asking about how to avoid military combat.
The measure had been scheduled for a vote Tuesday as part of the consent calendar, items that are passed without debate. But it was postponed for more discussion after Councilwoman Betty Olds said she wanted to see the item amended to include giving staff information about military recruitment for people who called wanting to enlist.
That amendment was rejected.
The proposal came from the city's Peace and Justice Commission, which adopted a resolution earlier this month noting Berkeley's "unique and honored tradition of promoting alternative social values and viewpoints including nonviolence and pacifism." "During this time of military action, especially, we felt it was important that young people, who are of an age to consider enrolling in the military, have the full range of information available to them," said commission member Steve Freedkin.
Freedkin said he doesn't know of any instances where someone has called the city to ask about avoiding the military, but it would be good for city staff to be prepared...<hr></blockquote>
[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
Comments
<strong>it's a good thing the rest of this stupid country doesn't have the same kind of "stupidity" as we do. because then people might be kind and care about each other. and that would be dreadful
You still don't understand why this is so abysmally dumb, do you?
<strong>it's a good thing the rest of this stupid country doesn't have the same kind of "stupidity" as we do. because then people might be kind and care about each other. and that would be dreadful
<strong>it's a good thing the rest of this stupid country doesn't have the same kind of "stupidity" as we do. because then people might be kind and care about each other. and that would be dreadful
Now why doesn't it surprise me that "flowerbob" comes from "where the flowers are"...
[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
1. CommonSense's post referred to my last one since we're both from New Jersey.
2. CommonSense agrees with the attitude of the Berkeley city council and the conscientious objector organization referred to in the article.
3. CommonSense feels that I do not support this viewpoint.
I would ask that my post be read more carefully. I do not have any problem with the position of the City Council and the Central Committee for Conscientious Objectors.
I do have a problem with limiting the viewpoints of others on either side of the fence in this matter -- that all sides should be heard and be allowed to make their case. Thus, my comment about not allowing other contrary material to be distributed:
[quote]"?Councilwoman Betty Olds said she wanted to see the item amended to include giving staff information about military recruitment for people who called wanting to enlist. That amendment was rejected."<hr></blockquote>
Does this make my position clearer? I feel they've deliberately blocked another viewpoint from being heard. Bad thing. Even on my other rants in other threads about other people's perspectives, I've never tried to deny their ability to get their opinions out. I've simply ripped them a new one.
Sorry to pick on CommonSense, but I'm trying to not only restate my view but also why I've restated my view.
<strong>Does this make my position clearer? I feel they've deliberately blocked another viewpoint from being heard. Bad thing. Even on my other rants in other threads about other people's perspectives, I've never tried to deny their ability to get their opinions out. I've simply ripped them a new one.
Sorry to pick on CommonSense, but I'm trying to not only restate my view but also why I've restated my view.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It's called being tolerant .. to only views you support.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not running down to sign up and be shipped off to die, but if someone wants to, I think the city should be supportive.
This reminds me of the time I was going grocery shopping and on my way in a City Councilwoman was asking for signatures in support of some measure or another. I stopped to chat but quickly changed the conversation to another issue, regarding redistricting the city to give students (who comprise at least 25% of Berkeley's population) a majority in one of Berkeley's seven districts. This would also lead to giving the students a voice on the City Council. Needless to say she wasn't very eager to help me on that issue.
While Berkeley's city council seems to have their own ideas and agendas sometimes, the city itself is still great and laid back. I love how relaxed and diverse it is...
Now if only the city would get a bunch of communal Segway scooters...
[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: Xool ]</p>
[ 12-15-2001: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
<strong>The only part that seems dumb, or flies against the logic of this whole thing is how they rejected the idea of including military recruitment materials...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope, try again.
<strong>
Nope, try again.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I like how we now officially have an "alternative" culture. Officially alternative... hmmm
Like, peace dude... <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>quote:
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Originally posted by roger_ramjet:
Nope, try again.
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<strong>Maybe he's referring to the fact that there is no draft, so it doesn't make sense to be a conscientious objector. Just don't enlist.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that I would agree with.
<strong>I'm going to make a few assumptions here:
1. CommonSense's post referred to my last one since we're both from New Jersey.
2. CommonSense agrees with the attitude of the Berkeley city council and the conscientious objector organization referred to in the article.
3. CommonSense feels that I do not support this viewpoint.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, I was replying to the first post, not yours.
I think it's perfectly justifiable that the City Council isn't offering information on enlisting in the military. The reason is because there is a very clear, recognizable governmental authority in place for people to go to if they want to find out about joining the military. There's are thousands of recruiting centers across the country, and the average person knows they exist, and knows that it's the place to go if you want to throw your life away -- er, join the military.
There's no corresponding structure in place for people to learn about being a conscientious objector. Berkeley doesn't need to reinvent the wheel when it comes to offering military information, but they definitely *are* offering a new service by providing a "one-stop" place to find out about being a CO.
I hope that makes *my* position more clear.
Sheesh.