Sorry Skype is the most wonderful company on earth, they can do no wrong as with Nokia, I was wrong to criticise these noble companies of such high ideals of human perfection.
May Thor and a thousand Norse gods strike me dead where I stand for my transgressions and blasphemous ideas.
They might well be the biggest pricks and employee the most inept developers on earth. It doesn't change the fact that their app is intentionally crippled due to restrictions and not to technical limitations.
And Nokia was as much point to this thread as Burger King or Honda. Hell, let's bring Kermit the Frog into the discussion for added relevancy.
There are a lot of variables with radio transmissions, in Australia where my network is "up to" 7.2Mbps I regularly get speeds around the 3.4Mbps mark ranging as high as 5.5Mbps when tethering with my iPhone.
Ping times are usually between 0.150-0.300 ms
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab
"Sort of like" from a customer service staff means nothing.
Go and take a look at AT&T's website and it will tell you that a 3.6 mbps HSDPA has a max download speed of 3.6 mbps and AT&T tells you that you will have an average download speed of 700-1700 kbps. Notice that the Finnish translation talks about MAX theoretical speed with the premium teho plus service that you can never achieve in real life. And without the teho plus service, the Finnish website specifically tells you that your HSDPA phone will be crippled to 1 mbps max theoretical download speed. American carriers are more honest about it (because of class action lawsuits) that both AT&T and VZW will give you the average real life download speed of their 3G network.
It does matter --- because all you talk about is how cheap your Finnish service is and how fast it is. How cheap? You have to get the iphone data service from an MVNO in Finland. Which means that all your talk about how much more expensive Americans paid is garbage because you are comparing brand name carrier service in USA vs. MVNO service in Finland. How fast? It is the same network as AT&T's 3.6 mbps service --- only that American carriers don't cripple their speed on the basic subscribers in order to force them to pay for the higher priced uncrippled speed.
Well, for the most part, outside of the N97, Skype has not really been needed as many to most non-US operators are not afraid of VoIP. I use Fring on my Nokia in a 3G environment. Google Voice is just another app. Skype is only vaporware in regards to the N97. Continuing to cling to this one point makes the rest of your arguments lose their value. Skype never has to deliver an app for the N97 and there would still be VoIP over 3G for it.
BS --- mobile VoIP has been outlawed in many countries outside the US (the middle east). And many European mobile carriers explicitly stated that they crippled your VoIP traffic (in France and in Germany) --- perfectly legal.
Why shouldn't I discuss other issues regarding Skype as the opening post contains a link to someone complaining about Skype, which you seem to think is perfect and beyond reproach, has Apple given a response to this blog?
You blindly accept the word of a Skype blogger and criticise me personally for bringing up area's where it can be demonstrated that Skype has shortcomings.
Play the ball, not the man.
I personally think the Skype software on the iPhone is crap. It is barely tolerable when I use it on my MBP at home. That doesn't mean I am daft enough to blindly accept someone else telling me how I may use my data.
1) AT&T has said they will allow VOIP on 3G
2) Skype has an iPhone app that is perfectly capable of doing VOIP on 3G but has to check for this and disable itself.
3) Apple's SDK has still not been updated to allow VOIP on 3G.
Now, what does this have to do with Nokia? What does it have to do with Skype being dicks? What does it have to do with the dicks at Skype being too incompetent to get ported to a new Nokia device fast enough for you? Which if the 3 facts above do you think would logically be responsible for no 3G VOIP on the iPhone? (think hard, it should not be too difficult)
Nokia is relevant because the situation with Skype on S60v5 phone's shows that Skype releases vapourware and they are slow to develop applications.
Yet you choose to accept the reports of a Skype blogger as gospel truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
They might well be the biggest pricks and employee the most inept developers on earth. It doesn't change the fact that their app is intentionally crippled due to restrictions and not to technical limitations.
And Nokia was as much point to this thread as Burger King or Honda. Hell, let's bring Kermit the Frog into the discussion for added relevancy.
They might well be the biggest pricks and employee the most inept developers on earth. It doesn't change the fact that their app is intentionally crippled due to restrictions and not to technical limitations.
European carriers have been actively blocking voip traffic on their mobile networks for years --- years before the iphone was launched.
There are a lot of variables with radio transmissions, in Australia where my network is "up to" 7.2Mbps I regularly get speeds around the 3.4Mbps mark ranging as high as 5.5Mbps when tethering with my iPhone.
Ping times are usually between 0.150-0.300 ms
It really means that Australia is a sparsely populated area with mobile data tariff that is very expensive --- so nobody is using the cell tower when you are using it.
On the 3G iphone wired.com survey, Australia also has the slowest average 3G download speed in the whole world.
Sorry Skype is the most wonderful company on earth, they can do no wrong as with Nokia, I was wrong to criticise these noble companies of such high ideals of human perfection.
May Thor and a thousand Norse gods strike me dead where I stand for my transgressions and blasphemous ideas.
European carriers have been actively blocking voip traffic on their mobile networks for years --- years before the iphone was launched.
Which might be relevant to the discussion when AT&T prohibited VOIP on 3G. In Canada, my carrier prohibits it. So, I have no qualm with blaming my carrier if I can't use VOIP. Except for the fact that Apple prohibits, through their control of the App Store, anything that violates AT&T policies. Now that AT&T has changed their policy and VOIP apps are allowed on 3G, the only reasonable party to point the finger at is Apple.
Unless one's blind devotion to Apple has left them without this capacity for reason.
The issue is not restricted to the N97, the 5800 (and variants), Samsung 8910i, SonyEricsson Satio are also affected.
Why shouldn't I discuss other issues regarding Skype as the opening post contains a link to someone complaining about Skype, which you seem to think is perfect and beyond reproach, has Apple given a response to this blog?
You blindly accept the word of a Skype blogger and criticise me personally for bringing up area's where it can be demonstrated that Skype has shortcomings.
Play the ball, not the man.
I'll make this easy for you. Post one, only one post of mine where I blindly accept the word of a Skype blogger as opposed to just posting an article. You see, contrary to many here, maybe you included, maybe not, I have not desire to live in Steve Jobs' pants nor sit at his feet and wait for the manna (devices) from on high. In my non-myopic view of the world, Apple makes great products that I have no problem spending money on, but if something else comes along that provides more bang for the buck, I am there. See, I am loyal to where I get the most value for my money.
It appears that the only hold up with Skype over 3G on the iPhone lies with either Apple (the are blocking it) or AT&T (preventing Apple from implementing it). If you have hard evidence to the contrary please provide it. Your arguments are typical of Apple apologists. Your first move is: "well does Nokia, this or that" This is simply about Skype over 3G on the iPhone. Period.
AT&T has also said they will allow tethering on the iPhone...
...so where is it?
I've had it since the OS3.0 update as have other users around the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
You are missing the point...again.
AT&T has said they will allow VOIP on 3G.
Skype, with cripple checks removed will run on 3G on the iPhone.
Neither of which have anything to do with Skype on Nokia or is Skype is slow, in your uninformed opinion.
Regarding network speeds in Australia three major networks carry the iPhone at the time of the survey, if you look at the results you may notice that they are skewed by Optus.
Regarding network speeds in Australia three major networks carry the iPhone at the time of the survey, if you look at the results you may notice that they are skewed by Optus.
Skew or not --- it really goes to the heart of the issue, that people think incorrectly that American cell phone service is garbage. Sure, all people hear is how AT&T's network gets trashed (by Verizon) every single day --- yet AT&T's network is the third fastest 3G iphone network in the whole world.
AT&T has also said they will allow tethering on the iPhone...
...so where is it?
I've had it since the OS3.0 update as have other users around the world.
It is right there, built into the OS. Nice try. Your own foolish point actually proves how wrong your already pointless argument is.
Oh, AT&T might not allow tethering yet, but they haven't yet said that they allow it, they have said they will allow it. (Note the future tense for those with reading difficulties). As in at some future time, they will allow it. English isn't that difficult.
AT&T's statement regarding VOIP was not in future tense, but instead in past or present tense.
Quote:
"AT&T* today announced it has taken the steps necessary so that Apple can enable VoIP applications on iPhone to run on AT&T’s wireless network"
See how simple that is?
Keep trying.
VOIP on 3G is not available only because Apple has not yet allowed it. Good or bad, it is completely in their control at this point. You actually seem to see this as a bad thing but are unable to bring yourself to reconcile the facts with your inability to see anything Apple does as wrong. Rose coloured glasses, nut hugging, blind obedience...it is a fairly common limitation. Some people just take it to ridiculous extremes.
But Skype is somehow a slow, vapourware producing company and Nokia are bastards and Canada is cold and Honda makes great cars and Elmo is a big red freak...none of which are related to the topic, but some you deem worth using to mud sling in a weak attempt to deflect blame from Apple.
It appears that the only hold up with Skype over 3G on the iPhone lies with either Apple (the are blocking it) or AT&T (preventing Apple from implementing it). If you have hard evidence to the contrary please provide it. Your arguments are typical of Apple apologists. Your first move is: "well does Nokia, this or that" This is simply about Skype over 3G on the iPhone. Period.
Too true. If he actually looked at the facts he might see that Apple is actually capable to behaving in a manner which he might not agree with...can't have that. Better to stick one's head in the sand (or orifice), attempt to change the topic, sling mud at any other entity. That way Apple is right. Right...
It is sad. I am a gigantic Apple fan and have been using them for 30+ years. But I never understand how some people become so devoted they leave basic reasoning and common sense.
I wonder if hill60 will come back and now acknowledge that the SDK was indeed preventing Skype from doing VOIP over 3G, now that the SDK was updated remove the explicit prohibition on 3G VOIP.
Probably not. Will likely come up with some twisted logic that Skype should therefore be available today (1 day after SDK was updated?).
Tick, tick, tick, the timer is ticking for Skype now the barrier is removed let's see how ready they really were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
I wonder if hill60 will come back and now acknowledge that the SDK was indeed preventing Skype from doing VOIP over 3G, now that the SDK was updated remove the explicit prohibition on 3G VOIP.
Probably not. Will likely come up with some twisted logic that Skype should therefore be available today (1 day after SDK was updated?).
Tick, tick, tick, the timer is ticking for Skype now the barrier is removed let's see how ready they really were.
Well, at least you can now acknowledge there was an SDK barrier....that was sort of the point of this thread, regardless of how slow Skype may or may not be.
It took Apple 4 months to update the SDK to allow for this. Perhaps your sense of timing should be compared against that.
Oh, did you read the iPad iBooks feature will be US only for now? Do you now consider Apple a hostile, discriminatory entity, the way you repeated said GV being US only made Google? Or will we see another double standard? (I can guess...)
I can use Skype via Fring on my iPhone over 3G right now...
...still waiting on Skype, should I join the queue of Nokia S60v5 users who have been waiting since February last year for Skype to get their act into gear?
Hopefully it won't take so long for iPhone users.
Tick, tick, tick...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas
Well, at least you can now acknowledge there was an SDK barrier....that was sort of the point of this thread, regardless of how slow Skype may or may not be.
It took Apple 4 months to update the SDK to allow for this. Perhaps your sense of timing should be compared against that.
Comments
Sorry Skype is the most wonderful company on earth, they can do no wrong as with Nokia, I was wrong to criticise these noble companies of such high ideals of human perfection.
May Thor and a thousand Norse gods strike me dead where I stand for my transgressions and blasphemous ideas.
They might well be the biggest pricks and employee the most inept developers on earth. It doesn't change the fact that their app is intentionally crippled due to restrictions and not to technical limitations.
And Nokia was as much point to this thread as Burger King or Honda. Hell, let's bring Kermit the Frog into the discussion for added relevancy.
Ping times are usually between 0.150-0.300 ms
"Sort of like" from a customer service staff means nothing.
Go and take a look at AT&T's website and it will tell you that a 3.6 mbps HSDPA has a max download speed of 3.6 mbps and AT&T tells you that you will have an average download speed of 700-1700 kbps. Notice that the Finnish translation talks about MAX theoretical speed with the premium teho plus service that you can never achieve in real life. And without the teho plus service, the Finnish website specifically tells you that your HSDPA phone will be crippled to 1 mbps max theoretical download speed. American carriers are more honest about it (because of class action lawsuits) that both AT&T and VZW will give you the average real life download speed of their 3G network.
It does matter --- because all you talk about is how cheap your Finnish service is and how fast it is. How cheap? You have to get the iphone data service from an MVNO in Finland. Which means that all your talk about how much more expensive Americans paid is garbage because you are comparing brand name carrier service in USA vs. MVNO service in Finland. How fast? It is the same network as AT&T's 3.6 mbps service --- only that American carriers don't cripple their speed on the basic subscribers in order to force them to pay for the higher priced uncrippled speed.
Well, for the most part, outside of the N97, Skype has not really been needed as many to most non-US operators are not afraid of VoIP. I use Fring on my Nokia in a 3G environment. Google Voice is just another app. Skype is only vaporware in regards to the N97. Continuing to cling to this one point makes the rest of your arguments lose their value. Skype never has to deliver an app for the N97 and there would still be VoIP over 3G for it.
BS --- mobile VoIP has been outlawed in many countries outside the US (the middle east). And many European mobile carriers explicitly stated that they crippled your VoIP traffic (in France and in Germany) --- perfectly legal.
http://www.ovum.com/go/content/c,57072
Why shouldn't I discuss other issues regarding Skype as the opening post contains a link to someone complaining about Skype, which you seem to think is perfect and beyond reproach, has Apple given a response to this blog?
You blindly accept the word of a Skype blogger and criticise me personally for bringing up area's where it can be demonstrated that Skype has shortcomings.
Play the ball, not the man.
I personally think the Skype software on the iPhone is crap. It is barely tolerable when I use it on my MBP at home. That doesn't mean I am daft enough to blindly accept someone else telling me how I may use my data.
1) AT&T has said they will allow VOIP on 3G
2) Skype has an iPhone app that is perfectly capable of doing VOIP on 3G but has to check for this and disable itself.
3) Apple's SDK has still not been updated to allow VOIP on 3G.
Now, what does this have to do with Nokia? What does it have to do with Skype being dicks? What does it have to do with the dicks at Skype being too incompetent to get ported to a new Nokia device fast enough for you? Which if the 3 facts above do you think would logically be responsible for no 3G VOIP on the iPhone? (think hard, it should not be too difficult)
Yet you choose to accept the reports of a Skype blogger as gospel truth.
They might well be the biggest pricks and employee the most inept developers on earth. It doesn't change the fact that their app is intentionally crippled due to restrictions and not to technical limitations.
And Nokia was as much point to this thread as Burger King or Honda. Hell, let's bring Kermit the Frog into the discussion for added relevancy.
They might well be the biggest pricks and employee the most inept developers on earth. It doesn't change the fact that their app is intentionally crippled due to restrictions and not to technical limitations.
European carriers have been actively blocking voip traffic on their mobile networks for years --- years before the iphone was launched.
There are a lot of variables with radio transmissions, in Australia where my network is "up to" 7.2Mbps I regularly get speeds around the 3.4Mbps mark ranging as high as 5.5Mbps when tethering with my iPhone.
Ping times are usually between 0.150-0.300 ms
It really means that Australia is a sparsely populated area with mobile data tariff that is very expensive --- so nobody is using the cell tower when you are using it.
On the 3G iphone wired.com survey, Australia also has the slowest average 3G download speed in the whole world.
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/08/global-iphone-3/
Nokia is relevant because the situation with Skype on S60v5 phone's shows that Skype releases vapourware and they are slow to develop applications.
Yet you choose to accept the reports of a Skype blogger as gospel truth.
You are missing the point...again.
ignore the blogger.
AT&T has said they will allow VOIP on 3G.
Skype, with cripple checks removed will run on 3G on the iPhone.
Neither of which have anything to do with Skype on Nokia or is Skype is slow, in your uninformed opinion.
Sorry Skype is the most wonderful company on earth, they can do no wrong as with Nokia, I was wrong to criticise these noble companies of such high ideals of human perfection.
May Thor and a thousand Norse gods strike me dead where I stand for my transgressions and blasphemous ideas.
Game, set, match: Tulkas.
European carriers have been actively blocking voip traffic on their mobile networks for years --- years before the iphone was launched.
Which might be relevant to the discussion when AT&T prohibited VOIP on 3G. In Canada, my carrier prohibits it. So, I have no qualm with blaming my carrier if I can't use VOIP. Except for the fact that Apple prohibits, through their control of the App Store, anything that violates AT&T policies. Now that AT&T has changed their policy and VOIP apps are allowed on 3G, the only reasonable party to point the finger at is Apple.
Unless one's blind devotion to Apple has left them without this capacity for reason.
The issue is not restricted to the N97, the 5800 (and variants), Samsung 8910i, SonyEricsson Satio are also affected.
Why shouldn't I discuss other issues regarding Skype as the opening post contains a link to someone complaining about Skype, which you seem to think is perfect and beyond reproach, has Apple given a response to this blog?
You blindly accept the word of a Skype blogger and criticise me personally for bringing up area's where it can be demonstrated that Skype has shortcomings.
Play the ball, not the man.
I'll make this easy for you. Post one, only one post of mine where I blindly accept the word of a Skype blogger as opposed to just posting an article. You see, contrary to many here, maybe you included, maybe not, I have not desire to live in Steve Jobs' pants nor sit at his feet and wait for the manna (devices) from on high. In my non-myopic view of the world, Apple makes great products that I have no problem spending money on, but if something else comes along that provides more bang for the buck, I am there. See, I am loyal to where I get the most value for my money.
It appears that the only hold up with Skype over 3G on the iPhone lies with either Apple (the are blocking it) or AT&T (preventing Apple from implementing it). If you have hard evidence to the contrary please provide it. Your arguments are typical of Apple apologists. Your first move is: "well does Nokia, this or that" This is simply about Skype over 3G on the iPhone. Period.
...so where is it?
I've had it since the OS3.0 update as have other users around the world.
You are missing the point...again.
AT&T has said they will allow VOIP on 3G.
Skype, with cripple checks removed will run on 3G on the iPhone.
Neither of which have anything to do with Skype on Nokia or is Skype is slow, in your uninformed opinion.
Regarding network speeds in Australia three major networks carry the iPhone at the time of the survey, if you look at the results you may notice that they are skewed by Optus.
Regarding network speeds in Australia three major networks carry the iPhone at the time of the survey, if you look at the results you may notice that they are skewed by Optus.
Skew or not --- it really goes to the heart of the issue, that people think incorrectly that American cell phone service is garbage. Sure, all people hear is how AT&T's network gets trashed (by Verizon) every single day --- yet AT&T's network is the third fastest 3G iphone network in the whole world.
AT&T has also said they will allow tethering on the iPhone...
...so where is it?
I've had it since the OS3.0 update as have other users around the world.
It is right there, built into the OS. Nice try. Your own foolish point actually proves how wrong your already pointless argument is.
Oh, AT&T might not allow tethering yet, but they haven't yet said that they allow it, they have said they will allow it. (Note the future tense for those with reading difficulties). As in at some future time, they will allow it. English isn't that difficult.
AT&T's statement regarding VOIP was not in future tense, but instead in past or present tense.
"AT&T* today announced it has taken the steps necessary so that Apple can enable VoIP applications on iPhone to run on AT&T’s wireless network"
See how simple that is?
Keep trying.
VOIP on 3G is not available only because Apple has not yet allowed it. Good or bad, it is completely in their control at this point. You actually seem to see this as a bad thing but are unable to bring yourself to reconcile the facts with your inability to see anything Apple does as wrong. Rose coloured glasses, nut hugging, blind obedience...it is a fairly common limitation. Some people just take it to ridiculous extremes.
But Skype is somehow a slow, vapourware producing company and Nokia are bastards and Canada is cold and Honda makes great cars and Elmo is a big red freak...none of which are related to the topic, but some you deem worth using to mud sling in a weak attempt to deflect blame from Apple.
@hill60,
It appears that the only hold up with Skype over 3G on the iPhone lies with either Apple (the are blocking it) or AT&T (preventing Apple from implementing it). If you have hard evidence to the contrary please provide it. Your arguments are typical of Apple apologists. Your first move is: "well does Nokia, this or that" This is simply about Skype over 3G on the iPhone. Period.
Too true. If he actually looked at the facts he might see that Apple is actually capable to behaving in a manner which he might not agree with...can't have that. Better to stick one's head in the sand (or orifice), attempt to change the topic, sling mud at any other entity. That way Apple is right. Right...
It is sad. I am a gigantic Apple fan and have been using them for 30+ years. But I never understand how some people become so devoted they leave basic reasoning and common sense.
Probably not. Will likely come up with some twisted logic that Skype should therefore be available today (1 day after SDK was updated?).
iCall certainly got it out fast.
I wonder if hill60 will come back and now acknowledge that the SDK was indeed preventing Skype from doing VOIP over 3G, now that the SDK was updated remove the explicit prohibition on 3G VOIP.
Probably not. Will likely come up with some twisted logic that Skype should therefore be available today (1 day after SDK was updated?).
iCall certainly got it out fast.
Tick, tick, tick, the timer is ticking for Skype now the barrier is removed let's see how ready they really were.
Well, at least you can now acknowledge there was an SDK barrier....that was sort of the point of this thread, regardless of how slow Skype may or may not be.
It took Apple 4 months to update the SDK to allow for this. Perhaps your sense of timing should be compared against that.
Oh, did you read the iPad iBooks feature will be US only for now? Do you now consider Apple a hostile, discriminatory entity, the way you repeated said GV being US only made Google? Or will we see another double standard? (I can guess...)
...still waiting on Skype, should I join the queue of Nokia S60v5 users who have been waiting since February last year for Skype to get their act into gear?
Hopefully it won't take so long for iPhone users.
Tick, tick, tick...
Well, at least you can now acknowledge there was an SDK barrier....that was sort of the point of this thread, regardless of how slow Skype may or may not be.
It took Apple 4 months to update the SDK to allow for this. Perhaps your sense of timing should be compared against that.
Strawman was here! LOL