Why communism cannot work.

outsider

<a href="http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45271,00.html"; target="_blank">http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45271,00.html</a>;



China will become another Russia in less than a decade. Communism just doesn't work and the people won't stand for it when it reaches a point. I don't understand. Why would they KILL them instead of putting them in prison?

anders

[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:

<strong><a href="http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45271,00.html"; target="_blank">http://foxnews.com/story/0,2933,45271,00.html</a>;



China will become another Russia in less than a decade. Communism just doesn't work and the people won't stand for it when it reaches a point. I don't understand. Why would they KILL them instead of putting them in prison?</strong><hr></blockquote>



Foxnews? I thought there were more vitamins in a Danish than quality in Foqnews.



Communist? Ever since they applied the "who cares what colour the cat has as long as it catches mice?" to their economic policy I don´t think anyone could truly call China "Communist". China is nothing but liberal economy and anti-liberal civil rights. The only thing Communist about the China is the sign above the ruling partys head quarter. Its as communist as GWB is a hyper intelligent shade of blue.

pfflam

The thing that remains of China's Communism its its centralized control of all aspects of civil life: they are no longer communist in practice (never were) merely authoritarian with exeptions for business that makes money.

anders

[quote]Originally posted by pfflam:

<strong>The thing that remains of China's Communism its its centralized control of all aspects of civil life: they are no longer communist in practice (never were) merely authoritarian with exeptions for business that makes money.</strong><hr></blockquote>



Well that is perhaps a more precise way of saying what I was trying to say. Liberal economy and anti-liberal rights: The worst combo ever.

pfflam

[quote]Liberal economy and anti-liberal rights: The worst combo ever. <hr></blockquote>



that would be an apt description of Fascism... if you were to append that it was all of that under the guide lines of Aesthetic Principles.



Anyway, Communism can not work because it is not organic and is based on ideas as to what substative qualities constitutes human nature: meaning, that it defines the way people are to live based on an image of what people are: a fixed image of the human essence.

but, people are not any one way, they are vital and dynamic: that is why capitalism, with a fluid and shifting sense of government input of order, that cannot be rigidified without inherent struggle is best so far.



The only way Communism could work is if humans were to evolve into some kind of superOrganism where basically, we were no longer human.

ghost_user_name

[quote]Originally posted by Anders:

<strong>



Foxnews? I thought there were more vitamins in a Danish than quality in Foqnews.

</strong><hr></blockquote>



So the source of the news makes it invalid?

wrong robot

There has never been a True communist regime in any given country...its always a form of totalitarianism masked as communism to get people to think that its all good(doesn't need to be exterem totalitarianism...but its never TRUE karl marx communism)



Communism is not designed to be global, all so called communists(short maybe cuba, I don't know much about cuba, except that dictatorship!= communism) have either had plans for or have thought of global control



communism Cannot work on a world scale, it was never designed to work globally, it was designed more for smaller countries, but the power mongers took it and spit it out so that the peasants said "well its communism...we must be happy" while the ones in power abused their power...ya know?



think about the word

Communism

commune....community...communities are not the world, communities are small congregations of people that all work together to live.



[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: Wrong Robot ]</p>

anders

[quote]Originally posted by Scott H.:

<strong>



So the source of the news makes it invalid?</strong><hr></blockquote>



Sometimes it does but not in this case.

splinemodel

As has been said earlier, China isn't exactly communist. They have a very crude market economy with an enormous bureaucracy that seems to be more concerned about power than economics.



As for your topic, I have to question it on technical grounds. Communism can "work" in that it can manage to be applied to a nation, and it can hold for at least a bit. If you ask me if I think Communism is effective, I'll say hell no. Even EU socialism is showing to be highly ineffective. I have really enjoyed watching Europe slide and stagnate under its growing waves of incompetent socialist regimes which have really taken control over the past 15 years or so.

pfflam

Communism according to Marx demanded that it be a global phenomena. That is why Lenin established the "dictatorship of the Proletariat as a transitional model and why it was a necessarily expansionist form of government. THe west was not just parranoid when they established a policy of containment, it was, in part, due to the explicit definition of teh ideology that stated that it needed global reach.



So you clearly are completely wrong.... perhaps that is due to a romantic nastalgia for an unworkable ideaology?!?!

ghost_user_name

[quote]Originally posted by Anders:

<strong>



Sometimes it does but not in this case.</strong><hr></blockquote>



Facts are facts. It doesn't matter who reports them. Why bring it up in this case? Shaming China doesn't fit in with your liberal agenda? Doesn't move you closer to the workers' utopia?



Everyone thinks Fox is to the right but I think it?s more the case that they report on things the other media doesn?t care to report. That tends to be the stuff to the right.

outsider

ANYWAY, this saddens me. I thought China was on board with us to fight terrorism (from religious zealots) only to find out they themselves are anti-religious zealots.

ghost_user_name

Find out? They've always been that way.

trick fall

So the source of the news makes it invalid?



Hypothetically, so if there was a report in the New York Times that Bush did something inappropriate, you wouldn't consider the scource?



I dunno, I myself always consider the bias of the reporter and the news orginiztion, as well as my own personal bias when trying to decipher the news.

ghost_user_name

Just tell me what Bush did and I'll decide for myself if it was inappropriate or not. The fox report is based on facts. We can verify if X number of people were arrested. See the difference?

trick fall

Don't really care what the story said, didn't even read it. I was more interested in whether or not you considered the scource when discerning truth from fiction in the media, Scott.

token

I have been to China for a couple of months and I tell you - the situation is really bad there- I was horrified to watch public executions and humiliations (the crowd spitting on the prisoners, etc...) in television and on marketsquares, all under the banner of the chinese combination of 'Socialism' and Capitalism.

Of course I was a stranger and a mean tourist there but I have never been in a country where people were more unfriendly and where money meant that much in personal relations. Hardly fitting with the ideals of utopian communism.. And on top of that, I never saw a country more polluted and eroded as a result of all the years of socialism.. :-(

Disclaimer: This is not written to insult any individual chinese or to say that there are no friendly chinese anywhere in the World, even in China. This was just my general impression of the country.

outsider

I work with several Chinese and they are some of the most humble and shiest people I know. They are friendly but not in the typical american way of being overtly talkative and striking up conversations. But very polite, intelligent, insightful, and quiet. I guess the ones that want a brighter future and that can, come to nations that can encourage individualism and creativity.

ghost_user_name

[quote]Originally posted by trick fall:

<strong>Don't really care what the story said, didn't even read it. I was more interested in whether or not you considered the scource when discerning truth from fiction in the media, Scott.</strong><hr></blockquote>



I base it on the information in the report. That's how most normal people do it.

nordstrodamus

Who was it who said, "Communism is a great idea that will never work"?



I can think of only one situation in which communism could work and at this point it's purely fictional - Star Trek.



In the Star Trek scenario technology has made money meaningless as appearantly endless sources of energy, replicators, and planets to inhabit have eliminated the competition for goods and services.



For some reason people still work out of an idealistic zeal to improve oneself. And they do add conflict from other species as a cheap out for explaining why we would still be united.



I suppose if I could have a replicator, a holodeck, a space-ship, and teraform any planet i liked then I'd be ok with communism.



P.S. You ever wonder why the all wear red in ST NG?

ghost_user_name

Notice how they never talk about the economy in Star Trek. Who pays for all these people to do that work?