If it is a design flaw Apple will need to bite the bullet. There is no way that an affected user can be required to use bumpers to remedy the problem. The phone was not advertised and sold to require bumpers to function. There would need to be an additional course of remedy, again, IF this is a design flaw.
Like you said, IF it's a design flaw. And if it's an issue that all users have, which doesn't seem to be the case at this point. We'll see what apple "needs" to do, that depends on how severe it is and how widespread it is. And how many users are perfectly happy once they get a free bumper. "Not advertised as requiring a bumper" is not a factor.
You seem to think that Apple will end up taking back every phone they've sold. That is NOT going to happen (at least not based on this issue), especially if a bumper fixes the problem.
I suggest everyone take a deep breath and wait until some controlled testing reveals whether this "flaw" is indeed such. It is possible that Apple is right, and that all phone signals are effected by the hand that holds it to one degree or another. Only scientific testing alongside the other models and competing phones can determine this. Not people standing in lines, or people posting on blogs.
If it is shown that there is a problem, then discussions of remedies will be germane.
You want controlled testing? C'mere and I'll show you. Pinch the phone with 2 fingers and Safari downloads like crazy. Hold it in your left hand (like one would do when touching the screen with the right hand) and any downloading stops instantly. Keep holding it like that for 30 seconds or so and see "No Service" pop up on the screen (plus a msg from Safari saying the server stopped responding). This is in an area where I normally have 2-3 bars of Edge signal, and where my old 3GS worked flawlessly every time. I have 3 iPhone 4s and they all do this.
Like you said, IF it's a design flaw. And if it's an issue that all users have, which doesn't seem to be the case at this point. We'll see what apple "needs" to do, that depends on how severe it is and how widespread it is. And how many users are perfectly happy once they get a free bumper. "Not advertised as requiring a bumper" is not a factor.
You seem to think that Apple will end up taking back every phone they've sold. That is NOT going to happen (at least not based on this issue), especially if a bumper fixes the problem.
How is it NOT a design flaw? Steve Jobs purposely mentioned putting the stupid antennae right into the grip of the phone.
That's not smart engineering design, that's sacrificing design over functionality. You can't even use an iPHONE to make PHONE calls! That is utterly idiotic.
You want controlled testing? C'mere and I'll show you. Pinch the phone with 2 fingers and Safari downloads like crazy. Hold it in your left hand (like one would do when touching the screen with the right hand) and any downloading stops instantly. Keep holding it like that for 30 seconds or so and see "No Service" pop up on the screen (plus a msg from Safari saying the server stopped responding). This is in an area where I normally have 2-3 bars of Edge signal, and where my old 3GS worked flawlessly every time. I have 3 iPhone 4s and they all do this.
Now that's interesting. The poster a few back also has 2-3 bars of Edge signal.
Can you go somewhere where there's 3G and see if it does the same?
When it is proven that there is a real problem, then I will agree with you on this point. Google "scientific proof" to see what I am talking about.
Its been scientific proof that Apple always puts how something looks before function. Now they are talking about giving away a bumper, give me a break what a joke and you know everyone here would be hammering Microsoft or Google if it was one of their products without and proof at all.
Steve Jobs is an a**hole. He does this crap and expects is loyal followers to say, "OK MESSIAH!". I like my Apple stuff to but man I'm so pissed about this. And I saw the iphone 4 yesterday and I wasn;t impressed. I'll stick with 16 gig(8.65 now) 3GS.
If Apple stocks gets hurt badly from this the Iphone 4 debacle, it will get revised.
And bet your life there will be a class action lawsuit.
You know whats funny about all this, if this was a new Android phone or something put out by RIM everyone on this forum would be taking about how others don't live up to Apple standards before any true tests came out. Because its Apple now everyone wants to wait and give Apple months to test before coming to a conclusion.
Funny shouldn't they have done all their testing before the release date?
Looks like Apple has now become big enough where they are the new Microsoft. Beta product right into production and fix the problems later.
I for one have been a very happy loyal Apple user for many years, and I don't expect perfection, but waiting months for them to take responsibility for this issue (if there is one) is not acceptable. This should only take a week or two for them to figure out what is actually going on and pass along info to us. If the last thing we hear from Apple is, "Hey silly customers, buy one of our bumpers since you are obviously holding it wrong", then I will be very disappointed in regard to this product. I won't judge future products by this one launch, but I won't be an early adopter anymore either. I should also say that I do not have an iPhone 4. Maybe someday, but I am just saying how I would like to be treated if I had this problem.
Its been scientific proof that Apple always puts how something looks before function. Now they are talking about giving away a bumper, give me a break what a joke and you know everyone here would be hammering Microsoft or Google if it was one of their products without and proof at all.
Actually I think this may be a case of putting one function before another function. From what I've heard the reception really is better with this antenna approach.
From what I've seen with data in the Speedtest app, as soon as the gap is bridged, data transfer halts. The bars seem to provide a moving average of signal strength over about the last 20 seconds, so it takes them 20 seconds to catch up. Likewise, after releasing the death grip, it takes another 20 seconds for the bars indicator to be fully restored, even though data transmission resumes immediately.
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by donlphi
Just curious about how bad it really is. I wanted to be an early adopter, but the lines were crazy at midnight. There was no way I was going to wait that long.
Are we talking INSTANT dropped calls every time or do the bars just go down? I find that the bars on my 3Gs fluctuate all the time while talking, but I don't lose the call.
I am unable to replicate this issue 100% of the time. Not even 20% of the time. However I have experienced ZERO dropped calls because of this. This doesn't let Apple off the hook mind you. They still need to address this.
It is surprising this left the door, I'll admit. However, throwing in a $29 bumper for $5 (which costs them $0.25) is an easy solution to the problem. It is a pretty stupid design flaw (in retrospect) that they should have seen coming and addressed already.
But, it isn't going to impact purchases or profitability.
Hmmm, maybe they did see it coming, maybe that's why they created their own bumper.
I gotta agree with Wu that it won't make a hint of difference to anyone given how easily it is resolved. I have yet to meet someone who doesn't put a case on their iPhone so I suspect the vast majority of people out there won't even encounter the issue.
It's still bad on Apple's part that they missed this though, just dumb that they tried to defend it with the lamo, "every phone has issues." Please, just release a statement that you regret some people are having issues and that you are investigating the issue.
Mine works fine too (with both 3G & WiFi, dry hands and slightly moist hands).
---
Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerARSgm
IMHO, the blogs are really to blame for this over-reaction. What we've seen over the past 36 hours is a perfect example of how the internet, bloggers, and message boards can turn a mountain into a mole hill.
I'd wager that there are far fewer actual issues from the antennae than reported. Very few consumers have the technical or troubleshooting knowledge to really isolate an issue to be caused by one variable. Logically, in many of the reported cases, there is no way for the user to know if it's the weather, the signal, interference, aliens, or just poor reception.
For the record, my iPhone4 works great. So does my wife's. No issues.
Well this is my first post, but I have been reading this site for a few months now.
I preordered and recieved my iphone 4 yesterday through fedex and it has both the discolored screen and the signal issues. The ATT store I activated at took a note of the screen so I can exchange it later if it doesn't go away.
I noticed the signal issue later when I got home. Where I live I only have edge and only 2 or 3 bars of signal. If I hold the phone in my left hand the signal drops to "no service" and I am unable to make calls if I try. So it is more than just a cosmetic thing, and really did make me drop to no service.
Sorry, you don't have enough posts here to be considered a credible source. Come back after you've posted more than 200 times.
I'd rather they had better designed/engineered the device prior to release, as opposed to this (proposed) half-hearted 'fix'.
The only possible design change would be the ability to leverage the conductive properties of the human body to locally enhance a signal. Otherwise, all phones with no extending antenna are impacted by reality.
I didn't say it's not, I said IF it's a design flaw meaning that the facts are still coming in. This was a response to a post insisting that Apple would take back every phone they've sold. Do you think there's much chance of that?
And the FCC requires putting the antenna in the base of the phone - if it's in the top (as it used to be) then the phone is sending signal straight through your head (not that there isn't a problem, just saying that the problem isn't having the antenna in the base since all new ones do it that way).
Steve Jobs is an a**hole. He does this crap and expects is loyal followers to say, "OK MESSIAH!". I like my Apple stuff to but man I'm so pissed about this. And I saw the iphone 4 yesterday and I wasn;t impressed. I'll stick with 16 gig(8.65 now) 3GS.
If Apple stocks gets hurt badly from this the Iphone 4 debacle, it will get revised.
And bet your life there will be a class action lawsuit.
If Jobs doesn't chill he'll get replaced.
We are all expendable!
Maccherry is a douche. To fixate to the point you're calling a CEO an a-hole as if your life's freedoms have been unduly usurped from you is truly pathetic.
I would think apple can just infuse a 'bumper' into the side of the phone in the next revision.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider
Despite well publicized reports of iPhone 4 reception issues, one analyst said he sees Apple, in the "worst case," discounting or giving away protective bumpers with little financial impact on the company.
Analyst Shaw Wu with Kaufman Bros. issued a note to investors Friday in which he discounted the antenna concerns as "overdone." Since the iPhone 4 launched, discussion of dropped calls from holding the device in one's left hand has grown, and Apple even publicly commented on the issue.
"We don't think the antenna issue is that big of a deal where it would warrant a product recall," Wu wrote. "The reason is that most users have a case anyway to protect their iPhone and to customize to their personal preferences. In our view, in the worst case, Apple provides a discount on the $29 iPhone 4 bumper case or includes one for free with an iPhone 4 purchase. Either way, we do not think this would have a material impact impact on our forecasts."
Apple, in a statement, said that gripping any mobile phone will affect its antenna performance. The company suggested that users avoid gripping the device in the lower left corner.
But the problem is also alleviated by using a case, which prevents the metal band around the perimeter of the device from making contact with the user's skin. The issue can reportedly be avoided when using the official "bumper" case sold by Apple.
Wu is particularly bullish on Apple's launch of the iPhone 4, predicting that the company sold between 1.5 million and 2 million units. On the high end, that would double the debut of the iPhone 3GS a year ago.
Wu's prediction of 2 million is higher than other analysts who believe Apple will sell closer to 1.5 million of the iPhone 4 at launch. Last week, after the first day of preorders, Apple revealed that more than 600,000 devices had been sold.
Why do people always have to find something to bitch about? Forget all of the reports that people are getting better reception in places they never did before. Instead, Apple should take notice that if I cover up the antenna with my hand, the reception bar goes down.
Meanwhile, somewhere in the California, Steve Jobs is doing a facepalm.
Here's the problem that I think most of you folks don't understand:
Maybe it is a design flaw. Maybe it isn't. (Altho, it does happen to me)
Comments
I think iP 4.1 is much better. At least it makes phone calls.
"thinner than steve jobs" - that's thin!
luckily however I decided to wait till v5 (or maybe later) before upgrading.
If it is a design flaw Apple will need to bite the bullet. There is no way that an affected user can be required to use bumpers to remedy the problem. The phone was not advertised and sold to require bumpers to function. There would need to be an additional course of remedy, again, IF this is a design flaw.
Like you said, IF it's a design flaw. And if it's an issue that all users have, which doesn't seem to be the case at this point. We'll see what apple "needs" to do, that depends on how severe it is and how widespread it is. And how many users are perfectly happy once they get a free bumper. "Not advertised as requiring a bumper" is not a factor.
You seem to think that Apple will end up taking back every phone they've sold. That is NOT going to happen (at least not based on this issue), especially if a bumper fixes the problem.
I suggest everyone take a deep breath and wait until some controlled testing reveals whether this "flaw" is indeed such. It is possible that Apple is right, and that all phone signals are effected by the hand that holds it to one degree or another. Only scientific testing alongside the other models and competing phones can determine this. Not people standing in lines, or people posting on blogs.
If it is shown that there is a problem, then discussions of remedies will be germane.
You want controlled testing? C'mere and I'll show you. Pinch the phone with 2 fingers and Safari downloads like crazy. Hold it in your left hand (like one would do when touching the screen with the right hand) and any downloading stops instantly. Keep holding it like that for 30 seconds or so and see "No Service" pop up on the screen (plus a msg from Safari saying the server stopped responding). This is in an area where I normally have 2-3 bars of Edge signal, and where my old 3GS worked flawlessly every time. I have 3 iPhone 4s and they all do this.
Like you said, IF it's a design flaw. And if it's an issue that all users have, which doesn't seem to be the case at this point. We'll see what apple "needs" to do, that depends on how severe it is and how widespread it is. And how many users are perfectly happy once they get a free bumper. "Not advertised as requiring a bumper" is not a factor.
You seem to think that Apple will end up taking back every phone they've sold. That is NOT going to happen (at least not based on this issue), especially if a bumper fixes the problem.
How is it NOT a design flaw? Steve Jobs purposely mentioned putting the stupid antennae right into the grip of the phone.
That's not smart engineering design, that's sacrificing design over functionality. You can't even use an iPHONE to make PHONE calls! That is utterly idiotic.
You want controlled testing? C'mere and I'll show you. Pinch the phone with 2 fingers and Safari downloads like crazy. Hold it in your left hand (like one would do when touching the screen with the right hand) and any downloading stops instantly. Keep holding it like that for 30 seconds or so and see "No Service" pop up on the screen (plus a msg from Safari saying the server stopped responding). This is in an area where I normally have 2-3 bars of Edge signal, and where my old 3GS worked flawlessly every time. I have 3 iPhone 4s and they all do this.
Now that's interesting. The poster a few back also has 2-3 bars of Edge signal.
Can you go somewhere where there's 3G and see if it does the same?
Just curious.
When it is proven that there is a real problem, then I will agree with you on this point. Google "scientific proof" to see what I am talking about.
Its been scientific proof that Apple always puts how something looks before function. Now they are talking about giving away a bumper, give me a break what a joke and you know everyone here would be hammering Microsoft or Google if it was one of their products without and proof at all.
If Apple stocks gets hurt badly from this the Iphone 4 debacle, it will get revised.
And bet your life there will be a class action lawsuit.
If Jobs doesn't chill he'll get replaced.
We are all expendable!
You know whats funny about all this, if this was a new Android phone or something put out by RIM everyone on this forum would be taking about how others don't live up to Apple standards before any true tests came out. Because its Apple now everyone wants to wait and give Apple months to test before coming to a conclusion.
Funny shouldn't they have done all their testing before the release date?
Looks like Apple has now become big enough where they are the new Microsoft. Beta product right into production and fix the problems later.
I for one have been a very happy loyal Apple user for many years, and I don't expect perfection, but waiting months for them to take responsibility for this issue (if there is one) is not acceptable. This should only take a week or two for them to figure out what is actually going on and pass along info to us. If the last thing we hear from Apple is, "Hey silly customers, buy one of our bumpers since you are obviously holding it wrong", then I will be very disappointed in regard to this product. I won't judge future products by this one launch, but I won't be an early adopter anymore either. I should also say that I do not have an iPhone 4. Maybe someday, but I am just saying how I would like to be treated if I had this problem.
Its been scientific proof that Apple always puts how something looks before function. Now they are talking about giving away a bumper, give me a break what a joke and you know everyone here would be hammering Microsoft or Google if it was one of their products without and proof at all.
Actually I think this may be a case of putting one function before another function. From what I've heard the reception really is better with this antenna approach.
From what I've seen with data in the Speedtest app, as soon as the gap is bridged, data transfer halts. The bars seem to provide a moving average of signal strength over about the last 20 seconds, so it takes them 20 seconds to catch up. Likewise, after releasing the death grip, it takes another 20 seconds for the bars indicator to be fully restored, even though data transmission resumes immediately.
Correct.
Just curious about how bad it really is. I wanted to be an early adopter, but the lines were crazy at midnight. There was no way I was going to wait that long.
Are we talking INSTANT dropped calls every time or do the bars just go down? I find that the bars on my 3Gs fluctuate all the time while talking, but I don't lose the call.
I am unable to replicate this issue 100% of the time. Not even 20% of the time. However I have experienced ZERO dropped calls because of this. This doesn't let Apple off the hook mind you. They still need to address this.
It is surprising this left the door, I'll admit. However, throwing in a $29 bumper for $5 (which costs them $0.25) is an easy solution to the problem. It is a pretty stupid design flaw (in retrospect) that they should have seen coming and addressed already.
But, it isn't going to impact purchases or profitability.
Hmmm, maybe they did see it coming, maybe that's why they created their own bumper.
I gotta agree with Wu that it won't make a hint of difference to anyone given how easily it is resolved. I have yet to meet someone who doesn't put a case on their iPhone so I suspect the vast majority of people out there won't even encounter the issue.
It's still bad on Apple's part that they missed this though, just dumb that they tried to defend it with the lamo, "every phone has issues." Please, just release a statement that you regret some people are having issues and that you are investigating the issue.
---
IMHO, the blogs are really to blame for this over-reaction. What we've seen over the past 36 hours is a perfect example of how the internet, bloggers, and message boards can turn a mountain into a mole hill.
I'd wager that there are far fewer actual issues from the antennae than reported. Very few consumers have the technical or troubleshooting knowledge to really isolate an issue to be caused by one variable. Logically, in many of the reported cases, there is no way for the user to know if it's the weather, the signal, interference, aliens, or just poor reception.
For the record, my iPhone4 works great. So does my wife's. No issues.
Well this is my first post, but I have been reading this site for a few months now.
I preordered and recieved my iphone 4 yesterday through fedex and it has both the discolored screen and the signal issues. The ATT store I activated at took a note of the screen so I can exchange it later if it doesn't go away.
I noticed the signal issue later when I got home. Where I live I only have edge and only 2 or 3 bars of signal. If I hold the phone in my left hand the signal drops to "no service" and I am unable to make calls if I try. So it is more than just a cosmetic thing, and really did make me drop to no service.
Sorry, you don't have enough posts here to be considered a credible source. Come back after you've posted more than 200 times.
yes, j/k
What happens when you're in a high humidity area? Or go from a cool to warm environment? Or pick up the phone after putting down your cold drink?
The bumper case can't stop condensation.
and condensation relates to this story/rubber bumpers in what way???
Personally...
I'd rather they had better designed/engineered the device prior to release, as opposed to this (proposed) half-hearted 'fix'.
The only possible design change would be the ability to leverage the conductive properties of the human body to locally enhance a signal. Otherwise, all phones with no extending antenna are impacted by reality.
How is it NOT a design flaw?
I didn't say it's not, I said IF it's a design flaw meaning that the facts are still coming in. This was a response to a post insisting that Apple would take back every phone they've sold. Do you think there's much chance of that?
And the FCC requires putting the antenna in the base of the phone - if it's in the top (as it used to be) then the phone is sending signal straight through your head (not that there isn't a problem, just saying that the problem isn't having the antenna in the base since all new ones do it that way).
Steve Jobs is an a**hole. He does this crap and expects is loyal followers to say, "OK MESSIAH!". I like my Apple stuff to but man I'm so pissed about this. And I saw the iphone 4 yesterday and I wasn;t impressed. I'll stick with 16 gig(8.65 now) 3GS.
If Apple stocks gets hurt badly from this the Iphone 4 debacle, it will get revised.
And bet your life there will be a class action lawsuit.
If Jobs doesn't chill he'll get replaced.
We are all expendable!
Maccherry is a douche. To fixate to the point you're calling a CEO an a-hole as if your life's freedoms have been unduly usurped from you is truly pathetic.
Despite well publicized reports of iPhone 4 reception issues, one analyst said he sees Apple, in the "worst case," discounting or giving away protective bumpers with little financial impact on the company.
Analyst Shaw Wu with Kaufman Bros. issued a note to investors Friday in which he discounted the antenna concerns as "overdone." Since the iPhone 4 launched, discussion of dropped calls from holding the device in one's left hand has grown, and Apple even publicly commented on the issue.
"We don't think the antenna issue is that big of a deal where it would warrant a product recall," Wu wrote. "The reason is that most users have a case anyway to protect their iPhone and to customize to their personal preferences. In our view, in the worst case, Apple provides a discount on the $29 iPhone 4 bumper case or includes one for free with an iPhone 4 purchase. Either way, we do not think this would have a material impact impact on our forecasts."
Apple, in a statement, said that gripping any mobile phone will affect its antenna performance. The company suggested that users avoid gripping the device in the lower left corner.
But the problem is also alleviated by using a case, which prevents the metal band around the perimeter of the device from making contact with the user's skin. The issue can reportedly be avoided when using the official "bumper" case sold by Apple.
Wu is particularly bullish on Apple's launch of the iPhone 4, predicting that the company sold between 1.5 million and 2 million units. On the high end, that would double the debut of the iPhone 3GS a year ago.
Wu's prediction of 2 million is higher than other analysts who believe Apple will sell closer to 1.5 million of the iPhone 4 at launch. Last week, after the first day of preorders, Apple revealed that more than 600,000 devices had been sold.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
Why do people always have to find something to bitch about? Forget all of the reports that people are getting better reception in places they never did before. Instead, Apple should take notice that if I cover up the antenna with my hand, the reception bar goes down.
Meanwhile, somewhere in the California, Steve Jobs is doing a facepalm.
Here's the problem that I think most of you folks don't understand:
Maybe it is a design flaw. Maybe it isn't. (Altho, it does happen to me)
However, when the CEO company answers with:
YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Not exactly the best response.
w00master