Its been scientific proof that Apple always puts how something looks before function. Now they are talking about giving away a bumper, give me a break what a joke and you know everyone here would be hammering Microsoft or Google if it was one of their products without and proof at all.
Wrong. It's a balance of cutting edge science with art. That's how much of science gets advanced, next to the ``oops! My experiment failed but produced some interesting results for some new area of research.''
I didn't say it's not, I said IF it's a design flaw meaning that the facts are still coming in. This was a response to a post insisting that Apple would take back every phone they've sold. Do you think there's much chance of that?
And the FCC requires putting the antenna in the base of the phone - if it's in the top (as it used to be) then the phone is sending signal straight through your head (not that there isn't a problem, just saying that the problem isn't having the antenna in the base since all new ones do it that way).
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer
The only possible design change would be the ability to leverage the conductive properties of the human body to locally enhance a signal. Otherwise, all phones with no extending antenna are impacted by reality.
The only possible design change? I guess you missed the possible design where the antennas were covered up enough that people couldn't short them together with their hand. The problem isn't blocking the signal, it's shorting the two pieces of metal separated by a gap.
Or here's a really obvious design change that seems to be working - PUT ON A BUMPER.
There you go again. If you actually read the posts on this topic in the various threads, you would know that your assertion is false. But, truth or falsity don't seem to matter to you.
Like you said, IF it's a design flaw. And if it's an issue that all users have, which doesn't seem to be the case at this point. We'll see what apple "needs" to do, that depends on how severe it is and how widespread it is. And how many users are perfectly happy once they get a free bumper. "Not advertised as requiring a bumper" is not a factor.
You seem to think that Apple will end up taking back every phone they've sold. That is NOT going to happen (at least not based on this issue), especially if a bumper fixes the problem.
You lost me with the "all users" part. You're saying this has to be an issue for all users for what to happen?
I would not put it past Gizmodo to display some sort of retaliation against apple in anyway, shape or form for the humiliation that they suffered at the hands of Apple. Of course it was gizmodo's fault in the first place that got then into that trouble but hey we all know how things work.
Wrong. It's a balance of cutting edge science with art. That's how much of science gets advanced, next to the ``oops! My experiment failed but produced some interesting results for some new area of research.''
Dropping a call is cutting edge science? By the way shouldn't you practice cutting edge science without charging people 199.00-299.00 dollars and locking them into a two year contract? Just a thought.
I can't believe people still insisting there is something wrong, that there was a design flaw... how many times do we have to tell you that all cell phones have always done this?? There's nothing wrong with the damn phone. I can duplicate every behavior reported with any available cell phone. This is absolutely absurd.
Allow me to make my case, since there are many that have so kindly spelled out very eloquently and scientifically what they have observed and their brilliant conclusions... surely Apple will not ignore them... but if they do, perhaps these few points may shed some light on why:
1. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
2. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
3. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Oh, and don't let me forget, most importantly,
4. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
I would not put it past Gizmodo to display some sort of retaliation against apple in anyway, shape or form for the humiliation that they suffered at the hands of Apple. Of course it was gizmodo's fault in the first place that got then into that trouble but hey we all know how things work.
Ok... perhaps this is true... but again, my response is that telling a customer/user that: "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG." isn't exactly putting Apple in the best light either.
Again, it's happening to me. Not a big deal for me, but it is hugely annoying and nearly *everyone* I've run into has THE EXACT SAME problem.
Now, before you respond to my post... I ask you (and others again) is "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" gizmodo's fault? Or Apple's?
If you say Gizmodo... then it might be time to see a doctor.
I can't believe people still insisting there is something wrong, that there was a design flaw... how many times do we have to tell you that all cell phones have always done this?? There's nothing wrong with the damn phone. I can duplicate every behavior reported with any available cell phone. This is absolutely absurd.
Allow me to make my case, since there are many that have so kindly spelled out very eloquently and scientifically what they have observed and their brilliant conclusions... surely Apple will not ignore them... but if they do, perhaps these few points may shed some light on why:
1. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
2. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
3. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Oh, and don't let me forget, most importantly,
4. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Glad I could help.
So, Jobs' response that "IT'S YOUR FAULT" good then?
IMHO, the blogs are really to blame for this over-reaction. What we've seen over the past 36 hours is a perfect example of how the internet, bloggers, and message boards can turn a mountain into a mole hill.
I'd wager that there are far fewer actual issues from the antennae than reported. Very few consumers have the technical or troubleshooting knowledge to really isolate an issue to be caused by one variable. Logically, in many of the reported cases, there is no way for the user to know if it's the weather, the signal, interference, aliens, or just poor reception.
For the record, my iPhone4 works great. So does my wife's. No issues.
You are so right. The blogosphere has devolved in every area from news reports to scientific sites. The latter are now trolled by ID nut jobs for example. The desire to create a reaction seems to be all that matters. Going 'viral' now seems to be the main desire whatever the facts. At least when you chose your poison with a printed newspaper or magazine you could read it without those that disagree with everything in that newspaper or magazine showing up and screaming at you. I never thought I'd be one to miss the good old days lol.
I didn't say it's not, I said IF it's a design flaw meaning that the facts are still coming in. This was a response to a post insisting that Apple would take back every phone they've sold. Do you think there's much chance of that?
I said, "I would hope that if a new rev of the phone happens a straight exchange of old for new could happen. Users should not be required to use the bumpers to solve the problem (if it exists for them)."
No pejoritive "insist," in fact I used the word "hope." My point was the bumpers solution could not be enforced and I would hope for a better remedy. Allowing for a replacement, just as buyers are able to do now (folks on this board advise buyers to do that now) may prove to be the best recourse for all, including Apple, IF this is a design flaw affecting a substantial number of people and increasingly bad press continues to come down on Apple.
I for one have been a very happy loyal Apple user for many years, and I don't expect perfection, but waiting months for them to take responsibility for this issue (if there is one) is not acceptable. This should only take a week or two for them to figure out what is actually going on and pass along info to us. If the last thing we hear from Apple is, "Hey silly customers, buy one of our bumpers since you are obviously holding it wrong", then I will be very disappointed in regard to this product. I won't judge future products by this one launch, but I won't be an early adopter anymore either. I should also say that I do not have an iPhone 4. Maybe someday, but I am just saying how I would like to be treated if I had this problem.
I agree with you 100%. Anyone can accept that a product might not be perfect but blaming the customer is totally unacceptable.
You are so right. The blogosphere has devolved in every area from news reports to scientific sites. The latter are now trolled by ID nut jobs for example. The desire to create a reaction seems to be all that matters. Going 'viral' now seems to be the main desire whatever the facts. At least when you chose your poison with a printed newspaper or magazine you could read it without those that disagree with everything in that newspaper or magazine showing up and screaming at you. I never thought I'd be one to miss the good old days lol.
What you say is partially true, but at the same time the problem has been exasperated by Jobs himself. That's NOT Gizmodo's fault.
Saying to everyone that it's YOUR FAULT is *NOT* the right response. This is what Apple is getting burned for now.
Just go to CNN.com and take a look at their homepage.
Who's fault is that? Maybe it was started by Gizmodo, but imho... this problem is now all Apple.
The only possible design change? I guess you missed the possible design where the antennas were covered up enough that people couldn't short them together with their hand. The problem isn't blocking the signal, it's shorting the two pieces of metal separated by a gap.
Or here's a really obvious design change that seems to be working - PUT ON A BUMPER.
Well said. If it happened to me and it hasn't I'd simply use some clear plastic sealer (like the spray for car spark plugs) on the small area where the short seems to happen for some. I suspect you have to hunt for areas of weak reception and try really hard to make this happen then you can post a picture on a blog (or of course fabricate the entire event and post anyway).
You are so right. The blogosphere has devolved in every area from news reports to scientific sites. The latter are now trolled by ID nut jobs for example. The desire to create a reaction seems to be all that matters. Going 'viral' now seems to be the main desire whatever the facts. At least when you chose your poison with a printed newspaper or magazine you could read it without those that disagree with everything in that newspaper or magazine showing up and screaming at you. I never thought I'd be one to miss the good old days lol.
Why do you not have this same opinion when these rumors come out about other companies. Or do you? If this was reported with the new Evo or Incredible would your reaction be the same?
Here's the problem that I think most of you folks don't understand:
Maybe it is a design flaw. Maybe it isn't. (Altho, it does happen to me)
However, when the CEO company answers with:
YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Not exactly the best response.
w00master
Surprising that Apple responded so quickly in ANY way. I'm wondering if that response went out without Jobs knowledge or what. Terrible, just terrible to blame the user, and plain stupid to use the "other phones do it" defense. Was thus a third-tier PR guy that got handed the ball of what?
The sorry thing is this bad press will unfarily taint Apple in the eyes of the many potential buyers. Apple neophites will only hear "stay away from Apple."
Comments
Its been scientific proof that Apple always puts how something looks before function. Now they are talking about giving away a bumper, give me a break what a joke and you know everyone here would be hammering Microsoft or Google if it was one of their products without and proof at all.
Wrong. It's a balance of cutting edge science with art. That's how much of science gets advanced, next to the ``oops! My experiment failed but produced some interesting results for some new area of research.''
I didn't say it's not, I said IF it's a design flaw meaning that the facts are still coming in. This was a response to a post insisting that Apple would take back every phone they've sold. Do you think there's much chance of that?
And the FCC requires putting the antenna in the base of the phone - if it's in the top (as it used to be) then the phone is sending signal straight through your head (not that there isn't a problem, just saying that the problem isn't having the antenna in the base since all new ones do it that way).
The only possible design change would be the ability to leverage the conductive properties of the human body to locally enhance a signal. Otherwise, all phones with no extending antenna are impacted by reality.
The only possible design change? I guess you missed the possible design where the antennas were covered up enough that people couldn't short them together with their hand. The problem isn't blocking the signal, it's shorting the two pieces of metal separated by a gap.
Or here's a really obvious design change that seems to be working - PUT ON A BUMPER.
There you go again. If you actually read the posts on this topic in the various threads, you would know that your assertion is false. But, truth or falsity don't seem to matter to you.
Sorry did you say something?
Like you said, IF it's a design flaw. And if it's an issue that all users have, which doesn't seem to be the case at this point. We'll see what apple "needs" to do, that depends on how severe it is and how widespread it is. And how many users are perfectly happy once they get a free bumper. "Not advertised as requiring a bumper" is not a factor.
You seem to think that Apple will end up taking back every phone they've sold. That is NOT going to happen (at least not based on this issue), especially if a bumper fixes the problem.
You lost me with the "all users" part. You're saying this has to be an issue for all users for what to happen?
Wrong. It's a balance of cutting edge science with art. That's how much of science gets advanced, next to the ``oops! My experiment failed but produced some interesting results for some new area of research.''
Dropping a call is cutting edge science? By the way shouldn't you practice cutting edge science without charging people 199.00-299.00 dollars and locking them into a two year contract? Just a thought.
and condensation relates to this story/rubber bumpers in what way???
Let me see if I can explain this.
1. Users report loss of reception problems.
2. Apple suggests using a rubber bumper to improve reception.
3. Another user points out a possible relationship between using a bumper and condensation.
4. If 1=2=3, then maybe there is a relationship?
I'm not sure condensation is an issue but Russell is obliged to make his point.
Allow me to make my case, since there are many that have so kindly spelled out very eloquently and scientifically what they have observed and their brilliant conclusions... surely Apple will not ignore them... but if they do, perhaps these few points may shed some light on why:
1. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
2. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
3. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Oh, and don't let me forget, most importantly,
4. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Glad I could help.
I would not put it past Gizmodo to display some sort of retaliation against apple in anyway, shape or form for the humiliation that they suffered at the hands of Apple. Of course it was gizmodo's fault in the first place that got then into that trouble but hey we all know how things work.
Ok... perhaps this is true... but again, my response is that telling a customer/user that: "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG." isn't exactly putting Apple in the best light either.
Again, it's happening to me. Not a big deal for me, but it is hugely annoying and nearly *everyone* I've run into has THE EXACT SAME problem.
Now, before you respond to my post... I ask you (and others again) is "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG" gizmodo's fault? Or Apple's?
If you say Gizmodo... then it might be time to see a doctor.
w00master
I can't believe people still insisting there is something wrong, that there was a design flaw... how many times do we have to tell you that all cell phones have always done this?? There's nothing wrong with the damn phone. I can duplicate every behavior reported with any available cell phone. This is absolutely absurd.
Allow me to make my case, since there are many that have so kindly spelled out very eloquently and scientifically what they have observed and their brilliant conclusions... surely Apple will not ignore them... but if they do, perhaps these few points may shed some light on why:
1. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
2. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
3. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Oh, and don't let me forget, most importantly,
4. The reported reception issues with iPhone 4 are identical to every cell phone previously manufactured... ever.
Glad I could help.
So, Jobs' response that "IT'S YOUR FAULT" good then?
Riiiight.
By the way, go to CNN.com's homepage...
Is that Gizmodo's fault?
w00master
IMHO, the blogs are really to blame for this over-reaction. What we've seen over the past 36 hours is a perfect example of how the internet, bloggers, and message boards can turn a mountain into a mole hill.
I'd wager that there are far fewer actual issues from the antennae than reported. Very few consumers have the technical or troubleshooting knowledge to really isolate an issue to be caused by one variable. Logically, in many of the reported cases, there is no way for the user to know if it's the weather, the signal, interference, aliens, or just poor reception.
For the record, my iPhone4 works great. So does my wife's. No issues.
You are so right. The blogosphere has devolved in every area from news reports to scientific sites. The latter are now trolled by ID nut jobs for example. The desire to create a reaction seems to be all that matters. Going 'viral' now seems to be the main desire whatever the facts. At least when you chose your poison with a printed newspaper or magazine you could read it without those that disagree with everything in that newspaper or magazine showing up and screaming at you. I never thought I'd be one to miss the good old days lol.
I didn't say it's not, I said IF it's a design flaw meaning that the facts are still coming in. This was a response to a post insisting that Apple would take back every phone they've sold. Do you think there's much chance of that?
I said, "I would hope that if a new rev of the phone happens a straight exchange of old for new could happen. Users should not be required to use the bumpers to solve the problem (if it exists for them)."
No pejoritive "insist," in fact I used the word "hope." My point was the bumpers solution could not be enforced and I would hope for a better remedy. Allowing for a replacement, just as buyers are able to do now (folks on this board advise buyers to do that now) may prove to be the best recourse for all, including Apple, IF this is a design flaw affecting a substantial number of people and increasingly bad press continues to come down on Apple.
I for one have been a very happy loyal Apple user for many years, and I don't expect perfection, but waiting months for them to take responsibility for this issue (if there is one) is not acceptable. This should only take a week or two for them to figure out what is actually going on and pass along info to us. If the last thing we hear from Apple is, "Hey silly customers, buy one of our bumpers since you are obviously holding it wrong", then I will be very disappointed in regard to this product. I won't judge future products by this one launch, but I won't be an early adopter anymore either. I should also say that I do not have an iPhone 4. Maybe someday, but I am just saying how I would like to be treated if I had this problem.
I agree with you 100%. Anyone can accept that a product might not be perfect but blaming the customer is totally unacceptable.
You are so right. The blogosphere has devolved in every area from news reports to scientific sites. The latter are now trolled by ID nut jobs for example. The desire to create a reaction seems to be all that matters. Going 'viral' now seems to be the main desire whatever the facts. At least when you chose your poison with a printed newspaper or magazine you could read it without those that disagree with everything in that newspaper or magazine showing up and screaming at you. I never thought I'd be one to miss the good old days lol.
What you say is partially true, but at the same time the problem has been exasperated by Jobs himself. That's NOT Gizmodo's fault.
Saying to everyone that it's YOUR FAULT is *NOT* the right response. This is what Apple is getting burned for now.
Just go to CNN.com and take a look at their homepage.
Who's fault is that? Maybe it was started by Gizmodo, but imho... this problem is now all Apple.
w00master
The only possible design change? I guess you missed the possible design where the antennas were covered up enough that people couldn't short them together with their hand. The problem isn't blocking the signal, it's shorting the two pieces of metal separated by a gap.
Or here's a really obvious design change that seems to be working - PUT ON A BUMPER.
Well said. If it happened to me and it hasn't I'd simply use some clear plastic sealer (like the spray for car spark plugs) on the small area where the short seems to happen for some. I suspect you have to hunt for areas of weak reception and try really hard to make this happen then you can post a picture on a blog (or of course fabricate the entire event and post anyway).
You are so right. The blogosphere has devolved in every area from news reports to scientific sites. The latter are now trolled by ID nut jobs for example. The desire to create a reaction seems to be all that matters. Going 'viral' now seems to be the main desire whatever the facts. At least when you chose your poison with a printed newspaper or magazine you could read it without those that disagree with everything in that newspaper or magazine showing up and screaming at you. I never thought I'd be one to miss the good old days lol.
Why do you not have this same opinion when these rumors come out about other companies. Or do you? If this was reported with the new Evo or Incredible would your reaction be the same?
Here's the problem that I think most of you folks don't understand:
Maybe it is a design flaw. Maybe it isn't. (Altho, it does happen to me)
However, when the CEO company answers with:
YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.
Not exactly the best response.
w00master
Surprising that Apple responded so quickly in ANY way. I'm wondering if that response went out without Jobs knowledge or what. Terrible, just terrible to blame the user, and plain stupid to use the "other phones do it" defense. Was thus a third-tier PR guy that got handed the ball of what?
The sorry thing is this bad press will unfarily taint Apple in the eyes of the many potential buyers. Apple neophites will only hear "stay away from Apple."
"The device should work for you not the other way around."
So... buying a bumper or holding it differently... the device is working for the user? How?
Riiight.
w00master
What you say is partially true, but at the same time the problem has been exasperated by Jobs himself. That's NOT Gizmodo's fault.
Saying to everyone that it's YOUR FAULT is *NOT* the right response. This is what Apple is getting burned for now.
Just go to CNN.com and take a look at their homepage.
Who's fault is that? Maybe it was started by Gizmodo, but imho... this problem is now all Apple.
w00master
Did Jobs say that or was it one of his minions?