AppleCare memo emphasizes no free bumpers for iPhone 4 reception

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  • Reply 81 of 213
    isaidsoisaidso Posts: 750member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post


    I copied this comment from MacRumors-



    "I had to sign up for this forum to post my reply. I am an apple fan. We have 3 computers, 2 iphone 4's ipads, etc.



    I bought my iphone 4 on launch day. I also purchased the bumper. I don't know about other people, but I am seeing this issue even with the bumper on. Maybe it doesn't drop off as quick, or as bad with the bumper. Even with the bumper, I've seen it drop from 5 bars to no bars. It never drops to no service, but the data performance goes from 2Mbps downstream to almost nothing.



    I am seriously considering returning this phone. I've already sold my 3G. If I return this phone, I will be purchasing a phone from one of Apple's competitors. This upsets me because I have spent a lot of money on iphone apps. I however can not deal with a phone that does not work properly."



    :comment by woodchuck- http://forums.macrumors.com/showthre...955564&page=20



    I've seen a lot of other posters say the same thing.



    Here is my one issue with this account:



    While I absolutely believe this story, I know for a fact that their are thousands of other users who are absolutely NOT able to reproduce the actions described above.

    What does that mean??
  • Reply 82 of 213
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post


    solipsism I usually agree with your posts but just because you are not experiencing problems doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of people aren't. It's actually rude to knock those that are having problems and I didn't expect it from you.



    I have no doubt that there are more than handful that genuinely have this issue with their iPhone 4. (not sure about 200,000+ iPhones with this problem).



    I disagree with the idea that Apple should give away a Bumper to everyone. I disagree with the commenters that claim it's a "short circuit" and than Apple simply doesn't know how to make a phone or understand how RF works.



    I have stated that Jobs' email reply, while technically correct, was very poorly worded and should not be said (then again, I've thought he terse email replies always had the potential to do plenty of damage and that has no come true).



    I've stated on plenty of other threads that I would not put up with this issue and that I would get a new iPhone 4 or return it for a full refund if they actually refused to get me a new one. Nowhere in my post did I mean to imply that users aren't having a legitimate issue.
  • Reply 83 of 213
    macologistmacologist Posts: 264member
    This is getting silly...



    Seemingly the same group of folks on this Forum are screaming at Apple here... The Sky Is Falling...



    Others say what I've been thinking:



    Shut Up and Return It? But the screamers don't seem to respond to that! So then I wonder:



    what do they really want? Are they trolls, or whatever?



    Then there are those who try to recreate this issue and can't! The funniest yet was the guy whose wife had this issue with 2 of their phones, but the guy/husband can't recreate this issue, and same goes for most others who have bought this product which is hardly available because of the huge demand!



    Most people use iPhone with Cases! Many use it with Hands-free Ear Pieces, wired or Bluetooth, thus this issue won't come up in those cases!



    Of course there are always those to whom Steve Jobs is a Devil..., and so they wish him, a cancer survivor, a speedy death, or so it seems from their venomous comments!



    So... If most people are not having this issue, and Apple can't meet the demand, is it fair to be demanding free Bumpers?



    Apple refuses to be dragged into this topic, as they are likely working on a fix...

    Apple doesn't want to acknowledge this as a problem, cause they don't feel that it is!

    Apple's Refund Policy allows for Return of their products, and I assume that includes item!



    So, by dealing with this the way Apple is, Apple is calling some people's bluff -- Shut Up, or Return it for a Refund...



    People are free to buy another phone, or design their own!



    As I've read some antenna expert:



    It's always a trade off! Apple took this antenna to the edge for better reception, because they understand that most people will use the case, and or Hands-Free!



    With all the conflicting reports, plus no problem for most people, it's hard to know what the best fix would be!



    I am getting suspicious of the same names here SCREAMING at Apple!

    Again I say:



    Apple is calling your bluff -- Shut Up, or Return it for a Refund!



    Buy another phone, or design their own!
  • Reply 84 of 213
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by voodooru View Post


    let's design an antenna as the frame and not insulate it and not give a shit about the reception quality. .



    How about "lets not give away the 10 cent rubber piece because we can still charge $30 FOR IT?



    I mean seriously. I watched the keynote and 2 seconds after I saw the antenna design I wondered what would happen if my hand or a coin or key in your pocket bridged the antenna and you got no signal. And Apple acts "surprised"?
  • Reply 85 of 213
    isaidsoisaidso Posts: 750member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post


    solipsism I usually agree with your posts but just because you are not experiencing problems doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of people aren't. It's actually rude to knock those that are having problems and I didn't expect it from you.



    Wow.

    Now I do question the account you gave in your previous post.

    You have clearly pulled the "hundreds of thousands" number out of your a**

    It causes one to question your other post.
  • Reply 86 of 213
    mac_dogmac_dog Posts: 1,069member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JBlongz View Post


    Looks like Lefties are at a disadvantage. I'm sticking with my blackberry until iPhone 5 or 6, I already had the first 3.



    wow. such a narrow view. i actually know a lot of 'righties' that have iphones.



    apple will survive this.
  • Reply 87 of 213
    djmikeodjmikeo Posts: 180member
    I actually understand their policy. If they gave away free bumpers, this would be an admission of a defective product and if a lawsuit ever goes into effect, the judge would use Apple's goodwill efforts to appease just a few unhappy iPhone 4 owners, and turn it into a possible class action suit.

    In my past years of working with a major auto manufacturer and we were often told not to give any concession to a customer with a complaint to avoid a potential recall or lemon law return.



    I believe that Apple are aware of an actual problem and are working on a software fix, but will release an update that has a very vague description of how the fix was implemented. In a month or two, this will all be forgotten.
  • Reply 88 of 213
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Any sensible Judge will ask, "Well why didn't you take it back for a refund as is your right?"...



    ...the end, case closed.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post


    These lawyers will get millions and you'll get a $10 coupon. Good luck!



  • Reply 89 of 213
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by HammerofTruth View Post


    I'm not sure he was knocking people that have problems. I thought he was referring to the rude comments people are making about Apple and Steve Jobs personally.



    That's exactly what I was doing, thanks. The thread started unraveling before it could begin.



    This morning I ran across someone with the bridging problem with their iPhone 4. Sitting next to phone at a coffee shop he could replicate the issue at will by placing his phone on its side and touching that gap with his finger. No need to "death grip" it, just a downward pointed finger tip. Started with 5 bars and it goes to No Service in about 10 seconds.



    My phone sitting next to his does not in any way exert this issue. I've tested it all over, even in areas with EDGE and GPRS (of all things) so I've likely run the gamut on radio types (even with WiFI and BT on and off. Nothing. This tells me it's an issue with the production of those units or a production of chips in those units, perhaps from TriQuint, but not a "design flaw" that "short circuits" the exposed antenna.



    Note today was the 7th day I and most of my friends have had an iPhone 4. One had a DOA phone, another had a bad internal mic (not noise cancelation mic), and everyone else I know has perfectly working iPhone 4s. The two with issues got them replaced immediately.
  • Reply 90 of 213
    freddychfreddych Posts: 266member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    That's exactly what I was doing, thanks. The thread started unraveling before it could begin.



    This morning I ran across someone with the bridging problem with their iPhone 4. Sitting next to phone at a coffee shop he could replicate the issue at will by placing his phone on its side and touching that gap with his finger. No need to "death grip" it, just a downward pointed finger tip. Started with 5 bars and it goes to No Service in about 10 seconds.



    My phone sitting next to his does not in any way exert this issue. I've tested it all over, even in areas with EDGE and GPRS (of all things) so I've likely run the gamut on radio types (even with WiFI and BT on and off. Nothing. This tells me it's an issue with the production of those units or a production of chips in those units, perhaps from TriQuint, but not a "design flaw" that "short circuits" the exposed antenna.



    Note today was the 7th day I and most of my friends have had an iPhone 4. On had a DOA phone, another had a bad internal phone mic (not noise cancelation mic), and everything else I know has perfectly working iPhones. The two with issues got them replaced



    I walked into an apple store and was able to replicate the problem on all 12 of the iPhone 4's I tested. Holding the phone exactly as I hold the iPhone 3GS, they all dropped to 0 bars (but not showing no service).



    Did you try having your friend hold your phone? Maybe your skin doesn't have the conductivity that he does. I know that I have fairly sweaty palms, so that may be exacerbating the problem.
  • Reply 91 of 213
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post


    I actually understand their policy. If they gave away free bumpers, this would be an admission of a defective product and if a lawsuit ever goes into effect, the judge would use Apple's goodwill efforts to appease just a few unhappy iPhone 4 owners, and turn it into a possible class action suit.



    The class action part has already happened.
  • Reply 92 of 213
    extremeskaterextremeskater Posts: 2,248member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I didn't get more than few posts into this thread before it was littered with asshat comments. I'm sure there were objective and reasonable people correcting the jackassery but I am sure it will fall on deaf ears.



    I've had my phone a few hours short of a week now and have experienced zero reception problems from "short circuiting" the antennas. So much for Apple not knowing how to make a proper phone. \



    Now no one on this forum could ever accuse me of being a fanboy so I had to test this out. Now while not scientific I tested this out with an HTC Evo, HTC Incredible, iPhone 3Gs and iPhone 4 which I got my hands on today via a friend.



    All the phones depeding on how you hold them lose bars which is something 99% of us never even take notice if we don't drop the call.



    So today including myself we had four tech guys with about 100 years experience combined and we could all get our phones to lose bars based on how we held them but non of them dropped a call or had any real issue including the iPhone 4.



    Not sure if there really is a problem because the iPhone 4 wasn't mine and I don't use it everyday but based on what I saw after hours or messing around the iPhone doesn't act any differnetly then any other phone we tested.
  • Reply 93 of 213
    freddychfreddych Posts: 266member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by djmikeo View Post


    I actually understand their policy. If they gave away free bumpers, this would be an admission of a defective product and if a lawsuit ever goes into effect, the judge would use Apple's goodwill efforts to appease just a few unhappy iPhone 4 owners, and turn it into a possible class action suit.

    In my past years of working with a major auto manufacturer and we were often told not to give any concession to a customer with a complaint to avoid a potential recall or lemon law return.



    I believe that Apple are aware of an actual problem and are working on a software fix, but will release an update that has a very vague description of how the fix was implemented. In a month or two, this will all be forgotten.



    Actually, fixes after the fact are inadmissible as evidence of a problem in the first place. The reason is the law does not want to discourage defendants from proactively remedying the problem if there is pending litigation.
  • Reply 94 of 213
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freddych View Post


    I walked into an apple store and was able to replicate the problem on all 12 of the iPhone 4's I tested. Holding the phone exactly as I hold the iPhone 3GS, they all dropped to 0 bars (but not showing no service).



    Did you try having your friend hold your phone? Maybe your skin doesn't have the conductivity that he does. I know that I have fairly sweaty palms, so that may be exacerbating the problem.



    I tried that in an Apple Store and could replicate the issue with 1 of 17 iPhone 4s on display. They had an iPhone 3GS as lonely number 18.



    I've tried everything. pieces of metal (which are more conductive), and even soaked my hand in water that had been ionized by releasing the sodium NetiPot contents into the water dipping to see what salty wet hands could do. Nothing. We're talking about radio frequencies here, not electricity, so this entire concept of a "short circuit" has never made sense to me.





    Here are some examples of what salt can do (enjoy!):
  • Reply 95 of 213
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,857member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    ... This morning I ran across someone with the bridging problem with their iPhone 4. Sitting next to phone at a coffee shop he could replicate the issue at will by placing his phone on its side and touching that gap with his finger. No need to "death grip" it, just a downward pointed finger tip. Started with 5 bars and it goes to No Service in about 10 seconds.



    My phone sitting next to his does not in any way exert this issue. ...



    Did you happen to try to make it happen on his phone by you touching it with your finger? Or have him try to make it happen on yours? I mean, I know I don't like people to touch my iPhone either, but, in the interest of science, you know...



    EDIT: Ah, I see you have tried it with other iPhones with mixed (mostly negative) results. I will say the fact that it doesn't seem consistently reproducible makes it seem as though it is not a design issue, and not a software problem. It really is starting to look to me like some sort of manufacturing issue.
  • Reply 96 of 213
    freddychfreddych Posts: 266member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I tried that in an Apple Store and could replicate the issue with 1 of 17 iPhone 4s on display. They had an iPhone 3GS as lonely number 18.



    I've tried everything. pieces of metal (which are more conductive), and even soaked my hand in water that had been ionized by releasing the sodium NetiPot contents into the water dipping to see what salty wet hands could do. Nothing. We're talking about radio frequencies here, not electricity, so this entire concept of a "short circuit" has never made sense to me.





    Here are some examples of what salt can do (enjoy!):



    Obviously, there is no way to tell what is going on here. Maybe my Apple store got an exceedingly bad batch of iPhones. I even asked fellow random customers to give it a try and the reception dropped on them too.



    Even cupping both my hands across the bottom and top halves of my iPhone 3GS, I can't replicate the problem, but it happens easily on every iPhone 4 I have come across.
  • Reply 97 of 213
    hands sandonhands sandon Posts: 5,270member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I have no doubt that there are more than handful that genuinely have this issue with their iPhone 4. (not sure about 200,000+ iPhones with this problem).



    I disagree with the idea that Apple should give away a Bumper to everyone. I disagree with the commenters that claim it's a "short circuit" and than Apple simply doesn't know how to make a phone or understand how RF works.



    I have stated that Jobs' email reply, while technically correct, was very poorly worded and should not be said (then again, I've thought he terse email replies always had the potential to do plenty of damage and that has no come true).



    I've stated on plenty of other threads that I would not put up with this issue and that I would get a new iPhone 4 or return it for a full refund if they actually refused to get me a new one. Nowhere in my post did I mean to imply that users aren't having a legitimate issue.



    Apple won't just not give me a new bumper they won't give me a replacement phone either. I was told that clearly by a level 2 technician today having been told last Friday, by the exact same technician that they would replace the phone if they couldn't fix it. The technician said there was no point giving me a new phone because it would do the same thing and there was no point putting it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it so I would just be wasting my time, but he did say I could do that if I wanted to.



    I will probably keep the phone though because other than that and a few minor software bugs, I'm amazed at how good it is. Unless a SW fix comes I don't see being able to get a properly functioning phone until at the very minimum a years time if Apple redesigns the antenna, and that's too long for me to want to go without an iPhone. It sucks, but the alternatives suck even more.
  • Reply 98 of 213
    merlinwmerlinw Posts: 35member
    Just give us 29.95.

    This seems like Microsoft, not Apple; What the heck happened?

    Has corporate greed reached even Apple?
  • Reply 99 of 213
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Motlee View Post


    A friend of mine who works for Applecare saw the ACTUAL document. And this isn't it.



    For the sake of "fair and balanced" reporting... for heck's sake, get it and post it.
  • Reply 100 of 213
    merlinwmerlinw Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Motlee View Post


    A friend of mine who works for Applecare saw the ACTUAL document. And this isn't it.



    Then Steve needs to step up and clear the air! Make a statement.
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