All the phones depeding on how you hold them lose bars which is something 99% of us never even take notice if we don't drop the call.
So today including myself we had four tech guys with about 100 years experience combined and we could all get our phones to lose bars based on how we held them but non of them dropped a call or had any real issue including the iPhone 4.
Not sure if there really is a problem because the iPhone 4 wasn't mine and I don't use it everyday but based on what I saw after hours or messing around the iPhone doesn't act any differnetly then any other phone we tested.
That is the experience I have. Attenuation by blocking the signal in some way is common and expected, but the drop from 5 bars to No Service should not be happening to any phone, especially when the only thing touching the phone is a finger tip over the infamous bridge between antennas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse
Did you happen to try to make it happen on his phone by you touching it with your finger? Or have him try to make it happen on yours? I mean, I know I don't like people to touch my iPhone either, but, in the interest of science, you know...
I can't think of anything we didn't do. Our phones probably need therapy after the way they were molested this morning.
Besides switching phones, we also tried to hold a phone in each hand and then switch hands, and place the two iPhone 4s next to each other. That was interesting as his UTMS antenna was touching my WiFI antenna and vice versa. His dropped to No Service and mine was fine.
Apple won't just not give me a new bumper they won't give me a replacement phone either. I was told that clearly by a level 2 technician today having been told last Friday, by the exact same technician that they would replace the phone if they couldn't fix it. The technician said there was no point giving me a new phone because it would do the same thing and there was no point putting it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it so I would just be wasting my time, but he did say I could do that if I wanted to.
I will probably keep the phone though because other than that and a few minor software bugs, I'm amazed at how good it is. Unless a SW fix comes I don't see being able to get a properly functioning phone until at the very minimum a years time if Apple redesigns the antenna, and that's too long for me to want to go without an iPhone. It sucks, but the alternatives suck even more.
So, by dealing with this the way Apple is, Apple is calling some people's bluff -- Shut Up, or Return it for a Refund...
Nice tactics that! That's a company that prides itself on providing what they claim. Total BS, because your actually right and if I do return my phone that will be what pushes me to do it.
These lawyers will get millions and you'll get a $10 coupon. Good luck!
Or, the lawyers will get nothing at all and bear the costs. As I pointed out in another thread, the point of this type of lawsuit, in general, isn't entirely to compensate the class, it's also to discourage companies from engaging in bad behavior with the idea that there's nothing an individual consumer can do about it, and to mete out financial punishment to those who do. So, without a financial incentive to do so, law firms would never bring these suits. They stand to gain financially, but they also assume a certain amount of financial risk. It's the way the legal system in this country has been fashioned to work, and, although it may not be the best of all possible systems, those who would "reform" it do so with the risk of introducing imbalances, or new injustices, that may be worse than the problems they perceive, especially if they think they can do it with simple, one-sided fixes.
lefties? i'm right handed and hold my iPhone 3GS and iphone 4 in my left hand. like most good god-fearing christians. and i can reproduce this *problem* 100% of the time.
.
Bringing Religion into this? I must not be christian enough. (I am not Christian, that must be the problem)
Most people will be buying a case once they become available. This will resolve your problem as well as give you protection. Those that aren't satisfied should return their iphone. REMEMBER, once the 30 days is up it's yours!
I can't think of anything we didn't do. Our phones probably need therapy after the way they were molested this morning.
Besides switching phones, we also tried to hold a phone in each hand and then switch hands, and place the two iPhone 4s next to each other. That was interesting as his UTMS antenna was touching my WiFI antenna and vice versa. His dropped to No Service and mine was fine.
I'm sure it's nothing that a little FaceTime won't cure. It really does sound like a manufacturing issue, though, not a design issue, not software.
EDIT: Ah, I see you have tried it with other iPhones with mixed (mostly negative) results. I will say the fact that it doesn't seem consistently reproducible makes it seem as though it is not a design issue, and not a software problem. It really is starting to look to me like some sort of manufacturing issue.
I think SW is a best case scenario. Maybe the TriQuint UMTS chip drivers are getting confused.
Worst case scenario is a production issue with some component or the assembly.
Worst, worst case scenario is Apple "solves" the problem the HW issue with SW which instead masks the issue of the dropping bars by altering the algorithm so the user has no visual indication of why a call has dropped or why their internet service has failed.
However, that worst, worst case scenario should be easy to figure out as at least one video shows a guy touching just the gap between antennas and having the NYTimes fail to load until he lets it go. If the problem isn't adequately solved with SW then page loadings should still resemble that video. I recommend everyone with an iPhone 4 try and document his method before and after this impending update.
Apple won't just not give me a new bumper they won't give me a replacement phone either. I was told that clearly by a level 2 technician today having been told last Friday, by the exact same technician that they would replace the phone if they couldn't fix it. The technician said there was no point giving me a new phone because it would do the same thing and there was no point putting it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it so I would just be wasting my time, but he did say I could do that if I wanted to.
I will probably keep the phone though because other than that and a few minor software bugs, I'm amazed at how good it is. Unless a SW fix comes I don't see being able to get a properly functioning phone until at the very minimum a years time if Apple redesigns the antenna, and that's too long for me to want to go without an iPhone. It sucks, but the alternatives suck even more.
Either you get a product that works as expected or you get your money back, at least in the US. I don't care if he says the problem will exist on another iPhone. I'll decide that and if it does then I'll decide whether to try a third or to get my money back and take my business elsewhere or wait for a real fix to happen.
lefties? i'm right handed and hold my iPhone 3GS and iphone 4 in my left hand. like most good god-fearing christians. and i can reproduce this *problem* 100% of the time.
sorry. didn't have this *problem* with the 3GS.
let's see. i pay at&t for unlimited bytes. except they tell me i can't use those bytes for tethering or facetime or whatever else will bring their network to its knees. . now i have apple telling me i must not hold my phone in a certain way? give me an effing break. what's next? don't masturbate next to the wall, you'll injure your wrist?
seriously, i'm a fanboy of 30 years (and no boy) and an apple shareholder but this is ludicrous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amdahl
Yes, I proposed the same thing a few months ago. There have been many instances of an individual's behavior changing after an organ transplant. We do not have a full understanding of how the chemical and physiological aspects of our body interact.
solipsism I usually agree with your posts but just because you are not experiencing problems doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of people aren't. It's actually rude to knock those that are having problems and I didn't expect it from you.
Where did you get this "hundreds of thousands" number? Did you pull it out of your ass? It figures.
I think SW is a best case scenario. Maybe the TriQuint UMTS chip drivers are getting confused.
Worst case scenario is a production issue with some component or the assembly.
Worst, worst case scenario is Apple "solves" the problem the HW issue with SW which instead masks the issue of the dropping bars by altering the algorithm so the user has no visual indication of why a call has dropped or why their internet service has failed. ... If the problem isn't adequately solved with SW then page loadings should still resemble that video. ...
The chip drivers seems unlikely, unless it's different batches of chips and the drivers are embedded on the chip (which would make it a HW/manufacturing issue, really), and some of them are messed up, or, unless they are part of the firmware and some iPhones had bad firmware loaded on them, which is possible. I suppose bridging the seam could cause some confusion that the bad firmware/chip drivers couldn't handle.
It's kind of hard to imagine what sort of manufacturing issue could cause it either, though. Maybe an internal connection that isn't solid, but it seems a little too specific for that. Maybe the composition of the antennae on some phones, causing them to not behave as expected (although, that could maybe be compensated for in software).
The only thing that it doesn't seem to look like is that it's a design flaw, otherwise it should be affecting all phones in the same area, and handled by the same person, the same.
But if there was a problem with even a small batch of iPhones, wouldn't Apple want to "exchange" a bunch of them so they can do an autopsy on the problematic phones and figure out what the real problem is?
Has Apple exchanged anyone's iPhone 4 due to this antenna problem?
I can understand saying no to free bumbers, but telling people they hold their phone the wrong way is not a good thing to say to your customers. Say somethng like its true that holding iPhone a certain way is not the best practice and that they will work to help make it better, but don't tell people who paid for the phone that they are wrong. Customer is always right, even when they are wrong.
Comments
Now no one on this forum could ever accuse me of being a fanboy so I had to test this out.
Truer words have never been spoken.
Now while not scientific I tested this out with an HTC Evo, HTC Incredible, iPhone 3Gs and iPhone 4 which I got my hands on today via a friend.
Have you seen AnandTech's review of the EVO 4G? He'll likely have a review of the iPhone 4 up tonight or tomorrow.
All the phones depeding on how you hold them lose bars which is something 99% of us never even take notice if we don't drop the call.
So today including myself we had four tech guys with about 100 years experience combined and we could all get our phones to lose bars based on how we held them but non of them dropped a call or had any real issue including the iPhone 4.
Not sure if there really is a problem because the iPhone 4 wasn't mine and I don't use it everyday but based on what I saw after hours or messing around the iPhone doesn't act any differnetly then any other phone we tested.
That is the experience I have. Attenuation by blocking the signal in some way is common and expected, but the drop from 5 bars to No Service should not be happening to any phone, especially when the only thing touching the phone is a finger tip over the infamous bridge between antennas.
Did you happen to try to make it happen on his phone by you touching it with your finger? Or have him try to make it happen on yours? I mean, I know I don't like people to touch my iPhone either, but, in the interest of science, you know...
I can't think of anything we didn't do. Our phones probably need therapy after the way they were molested this morning.
Besides switching phones, we also tried to hold a phone in each hand and then switch hands, and place the two iPhone 4s next to each other. That was interesting as his UTMS antenna was touching my WiFI antenna and vice versa. His dropped to No Service and mine was fine.
Apple won't just not give me a new bumper they won't give me a replacement phone either. I was told that clearly by a level 2 technician today having been told last Friday, by the exact same technician that they would replace the phone if they couldn't fix it. The technician said there was no point giving me a new phone because it would do the same thing and there was no point putting it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it so I would just be wasting my time, but he did say I could do that if I wanted to.
I will probably keep the phone though because other than that and a few minor software bugs, I'm amazed at how good it is. Unless a SW fix comes I don't see being able to get a properly functioning phone until at the very minimum a years time if Apple redesigns the antenna, and that's too long for me to want to go without an iPhone. It sucks, but the alternatives suck even more.
Unfortunately, your alternatives are:
1) get a bumper OR
2) don't hold your phone that way.
So, by dealing with this the way Apple is, Apple is calling some people's bluff -- Shut Up, or Return it for a Refund...
Nice tactics that! That's a company that prides itself on providing what they claim. Total BS, because your actually right and if I do return my phone that will be what pushes me to do it.
These lawyers will get millions and you'll get a $10 coupon. Good luck!
Or, the lawyers will get nothing at all and bear the costs. As I pointed out in another thread, the point of this type of lawsuit, in general, isn't entirely to compensate the class, it's also to discourage companies from engaging in bad behavior with the idea that there's nothing an individual consumer can do about it, and to mete out financial punishment to those who do. So, without a financial incentive to do so, law firms would never bring these suits. They stand to gain financially, but they also assume a certain amount of financial risk. It's the way the legal system in this country has been fashioned to work, and, although it may not be the best of all possible systems, those who would "reform" it do so with the risk of introducing imbalances, or new injustices, that may be worse than the problems they perceive, especially if they think they can do it with simple, one-sided fixes.
uhm, no ...?
lefties? i'm right handed and hold my iPhone 3GS and iphone 4 in my left hand. like most good god-fearing christians. and i can reproduce this *problem* 100% of the time.
.
Bringing Religion into this? I must not be christian enough. (I am not Christian, that must be the problem)
12 people share their iPhone 4 Death Grip stories
1,200,000 people share would share their love-my-iPhone 4 stories, but they're too busy enjoying their phones.
www.don'tbothermewiththisdeathgripbs.com
Truer words have never been spoken.
I'll second that.
I can't think of anything we didn't do. Our phones probably need therapy after the way they were molested this morning.
Besides switching phones, we also tried to hold a phone in each hand and then switch hands, and place the two iPhone 4s next to each other. That was interesting as his UTMS antenna was touching my WiFI antenna and vice versa. His dropped to No Service and mine was fine.
I'm sure it's nothing that a little FaceTime won't cure. It really does sound like a manufacturing issue, though, not a design issue, not software.
Unfortunately, your alternatives are:
1) get a bumper OR
2) don't hold your phone that way.
3) Return it for a refund.
3) Return it for a refund.
4) Get over it.
EDIT: Ah, I see you have tried it with other iPhones with mixed (mostly negative) results. I will say the fact that it doesn't seem consistently reproducible makes it seem as though it is not a design issue, and not a software problem. It really is starting to look to me like some sort of manufacturing issue.
I think SW is a best case scenario. Maybe the TriQuint UMTS chip drivers are getting confused.
Worst case scenario is a production issue with some component or the assembly.
Worst, worst case scenario is Apple "solves" the problem the HW issue with SW which instead masks the issue of the dropping bars by altering the algorithm so the user has no visual indication of why a call has dropped or why their internet service has failed.
However, that worst, worst case scenario should be easy to figure out as at least one video shows a guy touching just the gap between antennas and having the NYTimes fail to load until he lets it go. If the problem isn't adequately solved with SW then page loadings should still resemble that video. I recommend everyone with an iPhone 4 try and document his method before and after this impending update.
Apple won't just not give me a new bumper they won't give me a replacement phone either. I was told that clearly by a level 2 technician today having been told last Friday, by the exact same technician that they would replace the phone if they couldn't fix it. The technician said there was no point giving me a new phone because it would do the same thing and there was no point putting it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it so I would just be wasting my time, but he did say I could do that if I wanted to.
I will probably keep the phone though because other than that and a few minor software bugs, I'm amazed at how good it is. Unless a SW fix comes I don't see being able to get a properly functioning phone until at the very minimum a years time if Apple redesigns the antenna, and that's too long for me to want to go without an iPhone. It sucks, but the alternatives suck even more.
Either you get a product that works as expected or you get your money back, at least in the US. I don't care if he says the problem will exist on another iPhone. I'll decide that and if it does then I'll decide whether to try a third or to get my money back and take my business elsewhere or wait for a real fix to happen.
uhm, no ...?
lefties? i'm right handed and hold my iPhone 3GS and iphone 4 in my left hand. like most good god-fearing christians. and i can reproduce this *problem* 100% of the time.
sorry. didn't have this *problem* with the 3GS.
let's see. i pay at&t for unlimited bytes. except they tell me i can't use those bytes for tethering or facetime or whatever else will bring their network to its knees. . now i have apple telling me i must not hold my phone in a certain way? give me an effing break. what's next? don't masturbate next to the wall, you'll injure your wrist?
seriously, i'm a fanboy of 30 years (and no boy) and an apple shareholder but this is ludicrous.
Yes, I proposed the same thing a few months ago. There have been many instances of an individual's behavior changing after an organ transplant. We do not have a full understanding of how the chemical and physiological aspects of our body interact.
Mean spirited, and not called for.
solipsism I usually agree with your posts but just because you are not experiencing problems doesn't mean hundreds of thousands of people aren't. It's actually rude to knock those that are having problems and I didn't expect it from you.
Where did you get this "hundreds of thousands" number? Did you pull it out of your ass? It figures.
The class action part has already happened.
No, it has not happened yet, just a few Lawyers testing the waters.
No, it has not happened yet, just a few Lawyers testing the waters.
Point taken. Talk of a class action over a device people can freely return risk free has happened.
Millions... no, Billions are happy with their iPhone 4.
Yeah, that's the ticket!
Point taken. Talk of a class action over a device people can freely return risk free has happened.
Agreed
I think SW is a best case scenario. Maybe the TriQuint UMTS chip drivers are getting confused.
Worst case scenario is a production issue with some component or the assembly.
Worst, worst case scenario is Apple "solves" the problem the HW issue with SW which instead masks the issue of the dropping bars by altering the algorithm so the user has no visual indication of why a call has dropped or why their internet service has failed. ... If the problem isn't adequately solved with SW then page loadings should still resemble that video. ...
The chip drivers seems unlikely, unless it's different batches of chips and the drivers are embedded on the chip (which would make it a HW/manufacturing issue, really), and some of them are messed up, or, unless they are part of the firmware and some iPhones had bad firmware loaded on them, which is possible. I suppose bridging the seam could cause some confusion that the bad firmware/chip drivers couldn't handle.
It's kind of hard to imagine what sort of manufacturing issue could cause it either, though. Maybe an internal connection that isn't solid, but it seems a little too specific for that. Maybe the composition of the antennae on some phones, causing them to not behave as expected (although, that could maybe be compensated for in software).
The only thing that it doesn't seem to look like is that it's a design flaw, otherwise it should be affecting all phones in the same area, and handled by the same person, the same.
Has Apple exchanged anyone's iPhone 4 due to this antenna problem?