I take it that the 10% restocking fee is the issue? .
From what others have posted Apple stores (retail) do not have a restocking fee on returns for the iPhone. Any other retailers are outside of Apple's pervue. Even if it was about a restocking fee, it is at most going to be only 60-70 bucks. That's going to be dealt with in small claims court and not this kind of venue. Overall I doubt that is going to be the issue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalTroll
"Data" and "facts" like this?:
"So all the 'dropped call' complaints are people who set out to intentionally have a problem."
Unless you (g) can show otherwise, Apple has enough wiggle room to argue that they are covered well under the standard deviation for normal product defects and third party coverage. It's not proof of anything lawsuit worthy. Comments on a message board are not going to be seen as really credible evidence in a court of law. They are pretty much hearsay until they can be verified independently.
You are right... I might just have to do that.....I m ight even just opt out entirely...not sure at this moment..... Apple has really handled this whole issue poorly. At this point I don't know if I want another iPhone.....
"But there is good news in all of this. AnandTech also discovered that the iPhone 4 can actually use signal at the lower threshold far more reliably than any previous iPhone. "It's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS," according to Anand Shimpi. "The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."
It is inelegant and crap. But instead of returning it, why not get a case to stop the bridging of the antenna instead of incurring all those fees for a return?
I have an iPhone 4 on order to be delivered in a few days.
I have read extensively on the reception issue, the proximity sensor issue, the battery issue etc.
Normally, I am very against lawsuits. In this case, I am for it. I have bought Apple stuff almost exclusively since 1987. I love their products. However, I support these suits, because of Apple's extreme arrogance and complete distain toward us, it's customers.
iPhone 4 has been a botch since day 1. First, the white one was unexpectedly unavailable. Okay, things happen, but why couldn't Apple just come out and give people a straight answer. Then, the phone is released and there are two to three critical issues within hours. Again, Apple could come out and say, we're aware of the problem and working on it. Instead we get the BS from Jobs about "holding your phone differently," we get internal memo's leaked telling support how to screw the consumer over. We hear rumors about a software release that is "supposed" to fix a hardware issue, but again apple says nothing.
HAD APPLE MADE ANY PUBLIC OFFICIAL COMMENTS LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE WORKING ON IT AND THEY WILL SUPPORT THEIR CUSTOMERS, these lawsuits likely would never have been filed. It is Apple's arrogance and the feeling that people are getting that Apple will do nothing for us that is driving this.
When I get my phone, I will try it with an open and hopeful mind. If it works, great. If not I will return it and wait for the Samsung Captiva. If I get charged 10% restocking fee, you'd better bet, I'll be royally pissed.
13 people included on these suits out of 1.7 MILLON sold and people call the phone a poor design? You might want to check into manufacturing of product before calling for a recall. I wouldn't be happy either if a product I bought didn't work but to sue; please.
That would be an option if I kept my 3Gs. I gave it to my step daughter. She is using it on her own AT&T plan. So I cannot just ask for the phone back now......
I should have waited and not be an early adopter of the new phone....I just expected it to work as advertised in the keynote presentation.....
Ah, I see. You definitely can't get it back. For me, I haven't really had any problems from my phone now on day 2. The thing is, I though about returning my phone and waiting for all this to blow over, but I've quickly become spoiled by the iPhone 4. The thing that bugs me is that my favorite case and screen protector maker doesn't have any product yet and won't for another 2-4 weeks. So my phone goes unprotected from drops and scratches until then I guess.
I think it's entirely reasonable to give them at least 4-6 weeks to sort out all the issues involved and determine a course of action. If they can't do so in that time frame, they should then at least acknowledge that there are issues they are investigating, and how widespread they appear to be. I don't think it's acceptable for them to just maintain a silence and not publicly address these issues, and I'd be very disappointed in them if they were to do so.
That's really great, except by then it's too late to return the phone and void the contract with AT&T. So we give Apple time and if they can't fix it, we're screwed.
As for Apple making a statement, they don't need to give us a fix, just let us know they consider these issues and are working to solve it ASAP. They could let us know they'll stand by their product and us, and not stop until it is right. Instead they tell us everything is fine and we have to adapt to their product.
This is not to understand for Europeans, really you Americans are real mad, you funny silly crazy people, is money all there is in your heads...? Just get a bumper for the iPhone or, indeed, hold it in another way!
Geez, Americans and their lawsuits!
ok, buy my trashed Mercedes E class for a price of a new one. And don't complain because you can repair it (or just don't drive it, indeed).
I have an iPhone 4 on order to be delivered in a few days.
I have read extensively on the reception issue, the proximity sensor issue, the battery issue etc.
Battery issue?!? The battery on my iPhone 4 is way better than the one in my 3G. After a day of use yesterday (configuring, making a dozen or so calls, letting friends and co-workers check out my phone, taking pics, having Bluetooth on, WiFi on, location services on, shooting a few minutes of video and getting email all day), I had depleted only half the battery by the time I got home. I've been reading all about the phone and have yet to hear about a battery issue. As for the proximity sensor issue, my phone doesn't seem to have it. Can't say I have a reception issue either.
That's really great, expect by then it's too late to return the phone and void the contract with AT&T. So we give Apple time and if they can't fix it, we're screwed.
As for Apple making a statement, they don't need to give us a fix, just let us know they consider these issues and are working to solve it ASAP. They could let us know they'll stand by their product ans us, and not stop until it is right. Instead they tell us everything is fine and we have to adapt to their product.
Well, good point. Although, I would point out that it would definitely get Apple's attention if everyone who is having problems of type (2) that I described above were to return their iPhones, it would certainly get Apple's attention.
(And, I don't think Best Buy or Radio Shack customers can legally be charge restocking fees on "defective merchandise", so demonstrate the type (2) defect, stick to your guns, and I doubt very much that they will push the issue to the point of actually charging you a fee. Of course, one problem with buying anything at Best Buy, at least, is that they will want to give you a store credit and not a refund.)
This doesn't excuse Apples neglect. Best thing they can do is own up and fix the issue. I can't see them winning this legal case, even with their hot lawyers.
The sad part is that if it goes to court, and Apple actually loses, then the ruling will likely be that Apple has to give all affected users bumpers. That just seems wrong to me.
Who knows, maybe the soon-to-be released iOS 4.1 will improve the baseband control and fix the problem. Or maybe Apple will realize that the affected batch of phones didn't get the protective coating in manufacturing to prevent the skin/radio interference.
While there's some truth about our vision on americans only thinking about money, in this case, european consumers would actually demand a refund or full return of the money for a defective or bad working device on normal use, and a phone should and must work well while being hold on hands! That's why it's called mobile phone! So Apple if it only do the right thing, that's recognize the problem, solve it and keep a good consumer image, unfortunately for Apple they are becoming too much capitalist, and get blind of all that money they can get with a 190$ phone being sold by the price of 700$!!!
How much do you think the parts to a new Ferrari cost?
Certainly not what they charge for the final product.
Well, good point. Although, I would point out that it would definitely get Apple's attention if everyone who is having problems of type (2) that I described above were to return their iPhones, it would certainly get Apple's attention.
(And, I don't think Best Buy or Radio Shack customers can legally be charge restocking fees on "defective merchandise", so demonstrate the type (2) defect, stick to your guns, and I doubt very much that they will push the issue to the point of actually charging you a fee. Of course, one problem with buying anything at Best Buy, at least, is that they will want to give you a store credit and not a refund.)
Apple won't achnowledge that the merchendise is defective. Hence the lawsuit to force them to acknowledge this and deal with it. All of this is Apple's fault, with it's arrogance and belief that it does not have to address the complaints of their consumers. Normally, I'd say fine let the market screw the company as people stop buying their products. Here, aside from the huge cost of the item, people may be stuck with, is the two year contract people will also be stuck with preventing them from getting a new phone for two years without paying hundreds of dollars.
Battery issue?!? The battery on my iPhone 4 is way better than the one in my 3G. After a day of use yesterday (configuring, making a dozen or so calls, letting friends and co-workers check out my phone, taking pics, having Bluetooth on, WiFi on, location services on, shooting a few minutes of video and getting email all day), I had depleted only half the battery by the time I got home. I've been reading all about the phone and have yet to hear about a battery issue. As for the proximity sensor issue, my phone doesn't seem to have it. Can't say I have a reception issue either.
I agree completely with this. I've been most impressed with the battery life on this phone compared to apple's previous releases
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain J
Numerous users are reporting vastly diminished battery time on both the 3GS and the 4 with iOS 4.
How would anybody know how the 4 works without iOS4 installed since it's the only operating system that it's known
Remember the white iPhone turn pink article, remember the overheating articles. All absolutely nothing articles which did the rounds for a couple of weeks perpetuated by the same moaners and whiners and Apple haters on these and other blogs.
I think that after an Apple product launch its advisable to stay away from forums and blogs for a good 6 weeks to avoid the haters. I would wager that 99% of the posters don't even have an iPhone, let alone an iPhone 4.
The sad part is that if it goes to court, and Apple actually loses, then the ruling will likely be that Apple has to give all affected users bumpers. That just seems wrong to me.
Who knows, maybe the soon-to-be released iOS 4.1 will improve the baseband control and fix the problem. Or maybe Apple will realize that the affected batch of phones didn't get the protective coating in manufacturing to prevent the skin/radio interference.
Wishful thinking? yeah, maybe so.
No, the ruling would be a recall, replacement or refund required.
"But there is good news in all of this. AnandTech also discovered that the iPhone 4 can actually use signal at the lower threshold far more reliably than any previous iPhone. "It's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS," according to Anand Shimpi. "The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."
It is inelegant and crap. But instead of returning it, why not get a case to stop the bridging of the antenna instead of incurring all those fees for a return?
You are correct...I could just use a case on the phone. But that is not how the phone was advertised. That is not how it was demonstrated in Steve Jobs keynote presentation. That is not how he used the phone. It was not advertised that you will have to spend another $30 for a case to get full functionality of the phone. They should not blame the consumer of their products for hold the phone wrong.
Comments
I prefer a civilized world based on data and facts.
"Data" and "facts" like this?:
"So all the 'dropped call' complaints are people who set out to intentionally have a problem."
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=61
I take it that the 10% restocking fee is the issue? .
From what others have posted Apple stores (retail) do not have a restocking fee on returns for the iPhone. Any other retailers are outside of Apple's pervue. Even if it was about a restocking fee, it is at most going to be only 60-70 bucks. That's going to be dealt with in small claims court and not this kind of venue. Overall I doubt that is going to be the issue.
"Data" and "facts" like this?:
"So all the 'dropped call' complaints are people who set out to intentionally have a problem."
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...8&postcount=61
Unless you (g) can show otherwise, Apple has enough wiggle room to argue that they are covered well under the standard deviation for normal product defects and third party coverage. It's not proof of anything lawsuit worthy. Comments on a message board are not going to be seen as really credible evidence in a court of law. They are pretty much hearsay until they can be verified independently.
You are right... I might just have to do that.....I m ight even just opt out entirely...not sure at this moment..... Apple has really handled this whole issue poorly. At this point I don't know if I want another iPhone.....
From arstechnica http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...enna-issue.ars
"But there is good news in all of this. AnandTech also discovered that the iPhone 4 can actually use signal at the lower threshold far more reliably than any previous iPhone. "It's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS," according to Anand Shimpi. "The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."
It is inelegant and crap. But instead of returning it, why not get a case to stop the bridging of the antenna instead of incurring all those fees for a return?
I have read extensively on the reception issue, the proximity sensor issue, the battery issue etc.
Normally, I am very against lawsuits. In this case, I am for it. I have bought Apple stuff almost exclusively since 1987. I love their products. However, I support these suits, because of Apple's extreme arrogance and complete distain toward us, it's customers.
iPhone 4 has been a botch since day 1. First, the white one was unexpectedly unavailable. Okay, things happen, but why couldn't Apple just come out and give people a straight answer. Then, the phone is released and there are two to three critical issues within hours. Again, Apple could come out and say, we're aware of the problem and working on it. Instead we get the BS from Jobs about "holding your phone differently," we get internal memo's leaked telling support how to screw the consumer over. We hear rumors about a software release that is "supposed" to fix a hardware issue, but again apple says nothing.
HAD APPLE MADE ANY PUBLIC OFFICIAL COMMENTS LETTING PEOPLE KNOW THEY ARE WORKING ON IT AND THEY WILL SUPPORT THEIR CUSTOMERS, these lawsuits likely would never have been filed. It is Apple's arrogance and the feeling that people are getting that Apple will do nothing for us that is driving this.
When I get my phone, I will try it with an open and hopeful mind. If it works, great. If not I will return it and wait for the Samsung Captiva. If I get charged 10% restocking fee, you'd better bet, I'll be royally pissed.
That would be an option if I kept my 3Gs. I gave it to my step daughter. She is using it on her own AT&T plan. So I cannot just ask for the phone back now......
I should have waited and not be an early adopter of the new phone....I just expected it to work as advertised in the keynote presentation.....
Ah, I see. You definitely can't get it back. For me, I haven't really had any problems from my phone now on day 2. The thing is, I though about returning my phone and waiting for all this to blow over, but I've quickly become spoiled by the iPhone 4. The thing that bugs me is that my favorite case and screen protector maker doesn't have any product yet and won't for another 2-4 weeks. So my phone goes unprotected from drops and scratches until then I guess.
I have an iPhone 4 on order to be delivered in a few days.
I have read extensively on the reception issue, the proximity sensor issue, the battery issue etc.
Battery issue?
What battery issue?
I think it's entirely reasonable to give them at least 4-6 weeks to sort out all the issues involved and determine a course of action. If they can't do so in that time frame, they should then at least acknowledge that there are issues they are investigating, and how widespread they appear to be. I don't think it's acceptable for them to just maintain a silence and not publicly address these issues, and I'd be very disappointed in them if they were to do so.
That's really great, except by then it's too late to return the phone and void the contract with AT&T. So we give Apple time and if they can't fix it, we're screwed.
As for Apple making a statement, they don't need to give us a fix, just let us know they consider these issues and are working to solve it ASAP. They could let us know they'll stand by their product and us, and not stop until it is right. Instead they tell us everything is fine and we have to adapt to their product.
Battery issue?
What battery issue?
Numerous users are reporting vastly diminshed battery time on both the 3GS and the 4 with iOS 4.
This is not to understand for Europeans, really you Americans are real mad, you funny silly crazy people, is money all there is in your heads...? Just get a bumper for the iPhone or, indeed, hold it in another way!
Geez, Americans and their lawsuits!
ok, buy my trashed Mercedes E class for a price of a new one. And don't complain because you can repair it (or just don't drive it, indeed).
I have an iPhone 4 on order to be delivered in a few days.
I have read extensively on the reception issue, the proximity sensor issue, the battery issue etc.
Battery issue?!? The battery on my iPhone 4 is way better than the one in my 3G. After a day of use yesterday (configuring, making a dozen or so calls, letting friends and co-workers check out my phone, taking pics, having Bluetooth on, WiFi on, location services on, shooting a few minutes of video and getting email all day), I had depleted only half the battery by the time I got home. I've been reading all about the phone and have yet to hear about a battery issue. As for the proximity sensor issue, my phone doesn't seem to have it. Can't say I have a reception issue either.
stop OS freeze and data fees, and stop drops without gloves.
I'd like to teach the world to hold it, in perfect harmony,
I'd like to buy the world a case and keep it signal loss free.
(Repeat the last two lines, and in the background)
It's the real thing, iPhone 4 in a case is what the world wants today.
That's really great, expect by then it's too late to return the phone and void the contract with AT&T. So we give Apple time and if they can't fix it, we're screwed.
As for Apple making a statement, they don't need to give us a fix, just let us know they consider these issues and are working to solve it ASAP. They could let us know they'll stand by their product ans us, and not stop until it is right. Instead they tell us everything is fine and we have to adapt to their product.
Well, good point. Although, I would point out that it would definitely get Apple's attention if everyone who is having problems of type (2) that I described above were to return their iPhones, it would certainly get Apple's attention.
(And, I don't think Best Buy or Radio Shack customers can legally be charge restocking fees on "defective merchandise", so demonstrate the type (2) defect, stick to your guns, and I doubt very much that they will push the issue to the point of actually charging you a fee. Of course, one problem with buying anything at Best Buy, at least, is that they will want to give you a store credit and not a refund.)
This doesn't excuse Apples neglect. Best thing they can do is own up and fix the issue. I can't see them winning this legal case, even with their hot lawyers.
The sad part is that if it goes to court, and Apple actually loses, then the ruling will likely be that Apple has to give all affected users bumpers. That just seems wrong to me.
Who knows, maybe the soon-to-be released iOS 4.1 will improve the baseband control and fix the problem. Or maybe Apple will realize that the affected batch of phones didn't get the protective coating in manufacturing to prevent the skin/radio interference.
Wishful thinking? yeah, maybe so.
While there's some truth about our vision on americans only thinking about money, in this case, european consumers would actually demand a refund or full return of the money for a defective or bad working device on normal use, and a phone should and must work well while being hold on hands! That's why it's called mobile phone! So Apple if it only do the right thing, that's recognize the problem, solve it and keep a good consumer image, unfortunately for Apple they are becoming too much capitalist, and get blind of all that money they can get with a 190$ phone being sold by the price of 700$!!!
How much do you think the parts to a new Ferrari cost?
Certainly not what they charge for the final product.
It's called business. Look it up sometime.
Well, good point. Although, I would point out that it would definitely get Apple's attention if everyone who is having problems of type (2) that I described above were to return their iPhones, it would certainly get Apple's attention.
(And, I don't think Best Buy or Radio Shack customers can legally be charge restocking fees on "defective merchandise", so demonstrate the type (2) defect, stick to your guns, and I doubt very much that they will push the issue to the point of actually charging you a fee. Of course, one problem with buying anything at Best Buy, at least, is that they will want to give you a store credit and not a refund.)
Apple won't achnowledge that the merchendise is defective. Hence the lawsuit to force them to acknowledge this and deal with it. All of this is Apple's fault, with it's arrogance and belief that it does not have to address the complaints of their consumers. Normally, I'd say fine let the market screw the company as people stop buying their products. Here, aside from the huge cost of the item, people may be stuck with, is the two year contract people will also be stuck with preventing them from getting a new phone for two years without paying hundreds of dollars.
Battery issue?!? The battery on my iPhone 4 is way better than the one in my 3G. After a day of use yesterday (configuring, making a dozen or so calls, letting friends and co-workers check out my phone, taking pics, having Bluetooth on, WiFi on, location services on, shooting a few minutes of video and getting email all day), I had depleted only half the battery by the time I got home. I've been reading all about the phone and have yet to hear about a battery issue. As for the proximity sensor issue, my phone doesn't seem to have it. Can't say I have a reception issue either.
I agree completely with this. I've been most impressed with the battery life on this phone compared to apple's previous releases
Numerous users are reporting vastly diminished battery time on both the 3GS and the 4 with iOS 4.
How would anybody know how the 4 works without iOS4 installed since it's the only operating system that it's known
Remember the white iPhone turn pink article, remember the overheating articles. All absolutely nothing articles which did the rounds for a couple of weeks perpetuated by the same moaners and whiners and Apple haters on these and other blogs.
I think that after an Apple product launch its advisable to stay away from forums and blogs for a good 6 weeks to avoid the haters. I would wager that 99% of the posters don't even have an iPhone, let alone an iPhone 4.
The sad part is that if it goes to court, and Apple actually loses, then the ruling will likely be that Apple has to give all affected users bumpers. That just seems wrong to me.
Who knows, maybe the soon-to-be released iOS 4.1 will improve the baseband control and fix the problem. Or maybe Apple will realize that the affected batch of phones didn't get the protective coating in manufacturing to prevent the skin/radio interference.
Wishful thinking? yeah, maybe so.
No, the ruling would be a recall, replacement or refund required.
From arstechnica http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...enna-issue.ars
"But there is good news in all of this. AnandTech also discovered that the iPhone 4 can actually use signal at the lower threshold far more reliably than any previous iPhone. "It's readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS," according to Anand Shimpi. "The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use."
It is inelegant and crap. But instead of returning it, why not get a case to stop the bridging of the antenna instead of incurring all those fees for a return?
You are correct...I could just use a case on the phone. But that is not how the phone was advertised. That is not how it was demonstrated in Steve Jobs keynote presentation. That is not how he used the phone. It was not advertised that you will have to spend another $30 for a case to get full functionality of the phone. They should not blame the consumer of their products for hold the phone wrong.