Well they had to respond. Meanwhile our iPhone 4s are the best iPhones we've had. Better, faster connection. And this is the experience for most users.
I can make the signal degrade if I really try, but in everyday use, no problems. It's perfect.
Frankly, there's no problem with the iPhone. I think Apple will reiterate this and tell people simply to return the phone if they don't want to hold it the right way.
The part about reiterating the ability to return is fine, I suppose. Barely.
I am a staunch supporter of Apple, but I find it highly unlikely that they will again say anything that suggests that customers are holding their phones "wrong". That one was a pure PR snafu, regardless of it's accuracy. It's a bit like telling your wife that her pants make her butt look big. Just don't do it even (especially?) if true... leave that brutal honesty for her girlfriends.
The part about reiterating the ability to return is fine, I suppose. Barely.
I am a staunch supporter of Apple, but I find it highly unlikely that they will again say anything that suggests that customers are holding their phones "wrong". That one was a pure PR snafu, regardless of it's accuracy. It's a bit like telling your wife that her pants make her butt look big. Just don't do it even (especially?) if true... leave that brutal honesty for her girlfriends.
:-) ... but it's really how I feel.
Thompson
Bravo to Apple standing up to retarded consumers. Heres how i see the situation:
What's this? Can you describe what is bad after the update? If it's that you now show hardly any bars in your location, well that's exactly the predicted result for low signal areas. Your signal wouldn't be any weaker. Your display would simply be more representative. Or is there something else going on, e.g. more dropped calls, continued large impact to displayed strength, etc?
Update: I just came across your previous post on the earlier page.
Thompson
Its just before the update i had a good signal and could make calls, then i got the update and its like bam, you hold the phone the way people have been describing and the bars drop like a rock, sometimes to no signal. Here in Richmond we are very lucky we have very good ATT service so clearly there is something going on here. I mean guys I am the first to defend Apple within a heartbeat, I love their products and what they do, but I am also telling you, the software update really screwed with my phone, i even restored it a 2nd time to be sure. Typically with Betas, I have the random buggy issues but not like this
I've been also reading some other sites and posts from other developers who are having the same experience so I know I am not alone. I am just so taken off guard that before I had basically NO issues and now, its real obvious. Not sure what else to tell ya ..... Thank goodness I have bumper
Its just before the update i had a good signal and could make calls, then i got the update and its like bam, you hold the phone the way people have been describing and the bars drop like a rock, sometimes to no signal. Here in Richmond we are very lucky we have very good ATT service so clearly there is something going on here. I mean guys I am the first to defend Apple within a heartbeat, I love their products and what they do, but I am also telling you, the software update really screwed with my phone, i even restored it a 2nd time to be sure. Typically with Betas, I have the random buggy issues but not like this
I've been also reading some other sites and posts from other developers who are having the same experience so I know I am not alone. I am just so taken off guard that before I had basically NO issues and now, its real obvious. Not sure what else to tell ya ..... Thank goodness I have bumper
OK so maybe the beta didn't fix the display problem yet. *sigh*
But the 64 thousand dollar question is whether you've actually dropped a call or suffered poor quality, etc.
OK so maybe the beta didn't fix the display problem yet. *sigh*
But the 64 thousand dollar question is whether you've actually dropped a call or suffered poor quality, etc.
Thompson
Sorry you did ask that and I did not give you that answer in my long winded response before
When I have had a signal the quality has been okay for the most part, a couple of calls were really scratchy but I have to be 100% honest, its to soon to tell about that part yet. I can only speak about the visual aspect but I will post that experience in the next few days as i go about my business.
I'm trying to understand your post. Are you saying this situation is the consumers' fault for not being intelligent enough? ...
No, I was responding to the post saying how "arrogant" and so forth Apple's statements on the iPhone 4 antenna have been.
I'm saying that the fact that the consumer's didn't appreciate the truth of the statement "your holding it wrong," and instead take it as an insult, is basically due to their lack of intelligence/savy/perception/etc. I was also poking fun at Apple a bit for being in so elitist that it never even occurred to them that a lot of people hold the phone in this troglodytic "cupped-paw-to-the-head" fashion that stops the signal.
The phone is what it is. I think it's a great design and don't believe there is any problem with it given that it works exactly the way it was designed to work and does so exceedingly well. It seems obvious to me that the signal degradation that occurs when you hold the phone the "wrong way," is far from a surprise to the engineers and not a "flaw" per se. It was designed that way.
If there are iPhone 4's that are defective in some way (and I'm not really convinced there are yet), then it's certainly not all of them, or even a large number of them.
Really? So you're a genius who always holds your phone correctly? It's a cell phone, you should be able to hold it however. People are busy, multi-tasking, shifting a phone from one hand to the other, making calls in bed, etc. They shouldn't have to think "Am I holding my iPhone correctly?" That's idiotic. ...
Try holding your phone in your hand so that you hand is cupped around the antenna and then put it to your head. It's practically impossible to even hold it that way. The only time it's even do-able holding the phone this way, is when it's in your hand in front of you.
If you put the phone in your left hand so that the meat of your palm covers the spot (like in all the pictures), it gets really awkward holding onto it the closer you get to your head. In fact, your elbow ends up in front of your stomach if you try it. The natural "proper" way to hold a phone leaves you holding mostly onto the top of it in some way, with the bottom part slightly away from your face.
Take a look at the people you see in the street making phone calls. Not one of them (or very, very , very few of them), are "holding it wrong." It doesn't take a genius to hold a phone properly.
While I agree that the world is full of stupid people, I have to disagree with your notion that Apple doesn't understand how they work. Apple is arguably the best in the industry in terms of their understanding of human factors and the man-machine interface. Similarly, Apple is undoubtedly the pacesetter in terms of marketing, so I think it is an uphill battle to suggest that Steve & Co. don't understand the consumer mindset.
I might have gone too far with the "elitist Apple-ites" analogy. They generally know what consumers want and are obviously quite good at producing popular products, but this is the kind of mistake that Apple is famous for and the few mistakes they make, always seem to be along these lines (not understanding what the average consumer really wants).
The G4 Cube was a fantastic product for instance, but the things it was designed to excel at were things that the average consumer ultimately didn't care so much about (no noise, small desktop footprint, etc.). The hockey puck mouse is another example. Steve introduced it as, and genuinely thought it was, the best mouse design anyone had ever seen. It was universally reviled by the average joe however because average people just don't hold their mice the way in which you have to hold the hockey-puck mouse for it to work properly and feel comfortable in your hand.
Sorry you did ask that and I did not give you that answer in my long winded response before
When I have had a signal the quality has been okay for the most part, a couple of calls were really scratchy but I have to be 100% honest, its to soon to tell about that part yet. I can only speak about the visual aspect but I will post that experience in the next few days as i go about my business.
I'd still like to know what the 4.1 release notes say about this. (Or whether you were just referring to the letter) It seems odd they would put any changes they are intending related to iP4 antenna/bar/signal problems into a developer beta in final form but not actually release them to users.
No, I was responding to the post saying how "arrogant" and so forth Apple's statements on the iPhone 4 antenna have been.
I'm saying that the fact that the consumer's didn't appreciate the truth of the statement "your holding it wrong," and instead take it as an insult, is basically due to their lack of intelligence/savy/perception/etc. I was also poking fun at Apple a bit for being in so elitist that it never even occurred to them that a lot of people hold the phone in this troglodytic "cupped-paw-to-the-head" fashion that stops the signal.
The phone is what it is. I think it's a great design and don't believe there is any problem with it given that it works exactly the way it was designed to work and does so exceedingly well. It seems obvious to me that the signal degradation that occurs when you hold the phone the "wrong way," is far from a surprise to the engineers and not a "flaw" per se. It was designed that way.
If there are iPhone 4's that are defective in some way (and I'm not really convinced there are yet), then it's certainly not all of them, or even a large number of them.
Thanks. I now understand your intent. From this comment it really is an intelligent comment. If I knew you I wouldn't have questioned your comment. The wriiten word is not always the best at implying a person's meanings.
I hope they do something, I upgraded the beta 4.1 today and wham, not good.
4.1 did nothing to fix the problem in fact I am really sorry to say I think it made it worse on my phone. Before I had to really squeeze hard to get the results everyone else was having so i did not think it was that big of a deal, now after 4.1, I just hold it slightly and the bars drop like a rock!
This is a great example of the ignorance of even somewhat savvy (presumably) people as to what is going on. MacBearDan (no offense to him,) like many people, seems to think that the problem is "worse" now because with the "fix" his signal display is more sensitive on the high end (where signal strength doesn't really matter) whereas before it was "better" when it when it was more sensitive on the low end, where that increased sensitivity had some value.
Guess what? It probably was better before, but nothing has changed WRT the phone's reception?only the display has changed. But now Apple has been forced into addressing what a whining misinformed, minority has assumed they wanted?a less useful signal strength indicator.
This is clearly the result of inadequate testing on Apple's part. Likely that every prototype iPhone, whether on or off the Cupertino campus, was shrouded in a case that masked the problem.
Huh? You truly think that Apple didn't test their new metal frame == external antenna?! I'm convinced that Apple knew about this "problem" but determined that it's better to release it than probably not have a iPhone 4 in time. Now it has blown up in their faces. In a way they deserve it - people getting a bit too cocky and arrogant in Cupertino...
Personally, I find this situation quite hilarious. I can make my iPhone 4 stop all data transmission when I touch the gap even though it shows 5 bars (in the vicinity of a micro-cell). So what?! The moment I don't touch the gap, the phone resumes immediately at several Mbps down and 100s of kbps up. To me, the look and feel of this design (glass, stainless and the antenna) trumps 100% reliability as a function of grip. And no, the phone is not useless. It won't drop calls and won't stop data transmission if you manage to not touch the gap. Is that SOOOOOOOOOOOO difficult to do.
I recommend apple apply a sticker to the gap, labeling it the "hangup call" button. They should file a patent!!!
I do feel bad for clumsy people who have limited control over their fingers and can't handle this phone
Well, if the world was full of intelligent reasonable people that like hearing the truth then telling people they are holding it wrong would actually be the *best* way to go, since that's essentially the only problem.
The trouble is that Steve and Co. have no idea how the average dumb-ass consumers reacts to statements like that. So, yeah. It was a bad move I guess.
This whole debacle shows off Apple's achilles heel. They make superior products because they are a superior company full of superior human beings, but as a result, they just don't get how regular folks think sometimes. Same with the Hockey puck mouse for the original iMac. To a designer, it's beauty, art, etc. but to the average computer user it was a POS that didn't fit in your hand.
So, is your thesis 'professor', that the consumer is to blame for Apple's problem with the iPhone? How many mobile phones have you owned that required instructions on how to hold them?
At least they're going to address it. Even Apple knows that staying quiet with an issue this big (or saying "you're holding it wrong") is a dumbass mistake.
Who said they were even going to talk about the antenna issues?
The iPhone 4 is due for release soon in other countries, so it may simply be about that.
Apple can be amazingly ignorant/arrogant and with more people telling them what they should do, the less likely they are to do anything.
Because they've sole millions of phones and there are only a few reports of problems.
That means nothing. I will pick up an iPhone because many apps sync with my apps on the Mac and I've spent over $600 on apps. I also don't trust glass on both sides so I will buy a case. Just because Toyota made a recall recently doesn't mean that many were returning their vehicles.
I've been using Apple products since I was in 2nd and I'm 32. The only Wondows product I've actually bought was a Dell with WindowsME in college (my first computer that I could afford) so you should know the nighare I had been through. This is the first time I had ever considered buying am Amdroid phone.
Appleay bey favorite company but I'll toss them to the side if they don't provide a quality product. This is business and I don't give away my money to anyone.
Comments
Well they had to respond. Meanwhile our iPhone 4s are the best iPhones we've had. Better, faster connection. And this is the experience for most users.
I can make the signal degrade if I really try, but in everyday use, no problems. It's perfect.
Bingo. My experience as thoughts...exactly.
Frankly, there's no problem with the iPhone. I think Apple will reiterate this and tell people simply to return the phone if they don't want to hold it the right way.
The part about reiterating the ability to return is fine, I suppose. Barely.
I am a staunch supporter of Apple, but I find it highly unlikely that they will again say anything that suggests that customers are holding their phones "wrong". That one was a pure PR snafu, regardless of it's accuracy. It's a bit like telling your wife that her pants make her butt look big. Just don't do it even (especially?) if true... leave that brutal honesty for her girlfriends.
:-) ... but it's really how I feel.
Thompson
Your comment says more you than AppleZilla's comment. Exactly how would he know if most users are satisfied?
Because they've sole millions of phones and there are only a few reports of problems.
The part about reiterating the ability to return is fine, I suppose. Barely.
I am a staunch supporter of Apple, but I find it highly unlikely that they will again say anything that suggests that customers are holding their phones "wrong". That one was a pure PR snafu, regardless of it's accuracy. It's a bit like telling your wife that her pants make her butt look big. Just don't do it even (especially?) if true... leave that brutal honesty for her girlfriends.
:-) ... but it's really how I feel.
Thompson
Bravo to Apple standing up to retarded consumers. Heres how i see the situation:
"my phone drops calls when i hold it like this."
"dont hold it like that"
problem solved.
What's this? Can you describe what is bad after the update? If it's that you now show hardly any bars in your location, well that's exactly the predicted result for low signal areas. Your signal wouldn't be any weaker. Your display would simply be more representative. Or is there something else going on, e.g. more dropped calls, continued large impact to displayed strength, etc?
Update: I just came across your previous post on the earlier page.
Thompson
Its just before the update i had a good signal and could make calls, then i got the update and its like bam, you hold the phone the way people have been describing and the bars drop like a rock, sometimes to no signal. Here in Richmond we are very lucky we have very good ATT service so clearly there is something going on here. I mean guys I am the first to defend Apple within a heartbeat, I love their products and what they do, but I am also telling you, the software update really screwed with my phone, i even restored it a 2nd time to be sure. Typically with Betas, I have the random buggy issues but not like this
I've been also reading some other sites and posts from other developers who are having the same experience so I know I am not alone. I am just so taken off guard that before I had basically NO issues and now, its real obvious. Not sure what else to tell ya ..... Thank goodness I have bumper
Its just before the update i had a good signal and could make calls, then i got the update and its like bam, you hold the phone the way people have been describing and the bars drop like a rock, sometimes to no signal. Here in Richmond we are very lucky we have very good ATT service so clearly there is something going on here. I mean guys I am the first to defend Apple within a heartbeat, I love their products and what they do, but I am also telling you, the software update really screwed with my phone, i even restored it a 2nd time to be sure. Typically with Betas, I have the random buggy issues but not like this
I've been also reading some other sites and posts from other developers who are having the same experience so I know I am not alone. I am just so taken off guard that before I had basically NO issues and now, its real obvious. Not sure what else to tell ya ..... Thank goodness I have bumper
OK so maybe the beta didn't fix the display problem yet. *sigh*
But the 64 thousand dollar question is whether you've actually dropped a call or suffered poor quality, etc.
Thompson
Maybe my new iPhone next week will come with a free bumper?
I got an iP4 and I CERTAINLY do not want any bumper. I want the issue fixed!
OK so maybe the beta didn't fix the display problem yet. *sigh*
But the 64 thousand dollar question is whether you've actually dropped a call or suffered poor quality, etc.
Thompson
Sorry you did ask that and I did not give you that answer in my long winded response before
When I have had a signal the quality has been okay for the most part, a couple of calls were really scratchy but I have to be 100% honest, its to soon to tell about that part yet. I can only speak about the visual aspect but I will post that experience in the next few days as i go about my business.
I'm trying to understand your post. Are you saying this situation is the consumers' fault for not being intelligent enough? ...
No, I was responding to the post saying how "arrogant" and so forth Apple's statements on the iPhone 4 antenna have been.
I'm saying that the fact that the consumer's didn't appreciate the truth of the statement "your holding it wrong," and instead take it as an insult, is basically due to their lack of intelligence/savy/perception/etc. I was also poking fun at Apple a bit for being in so elitist that it never even occurred to them that a lot of people hold the phone in this troglodytic "cupped-paw-to-the-head" fashion that stops the signal.
The phone is what it is. I think it's a great design and don't believe there is any problem with it given that it works exactly the way it was designed to work and does so exceedingly well. It seems obvious to me that the signal degradation that occurs when you hold the phone the "wrong way," is far from a surprise to the engineers and not a "flaw" per se. It was designed that way.
If there are iPhone 4's that are defective in some way (and I'm not really convinced there are yet), then it's certainly not all of them, or even a large number of them.
Really? So you're a genius who always holds your phone correctly? It's a cell phone, you should be able to hold it however. People are busy, multi-tasking, shifting a phone from one hand to the other, making calls in bed, etc. They shouldn't have to think "Am I holding my iPhone correctly?" That's idiotic. ...
Try holding your phone in your hand so that you hand is cupped around the antenna and then put it to your head. It's practically impossible to even hold it that way. The only time it's even do-able holding the phone this way, is when it's in your hand in front of you.
If you put the phone in your left hand so that the meat of your palm covers the spot (like in all the pictures), it gets really awkward holding onto it the closer you get to your head. In fact, your elbow ends up in front of your stomach if you try it. The natural "proper" way to hold a phone leaves you holding mostly onto the top of it in some way, with the bottom part slightly away from your face.
Take a look at the people you see in the street making phone calls. Not one of them (or very, very , very few of them), are "holding it wrong." It doesn't take a genius to hold a phone properly.
While I agree that the world is full of stupid people, I have to disagree with your notion that Apple doesn't understand how they work. Apple is arguably the best in the industry in terms of their understanding of human factors and the man-machine interface. Similarly, Apple is undoubtedly the pacesetter in terms of marketing, so I think it is an uphill battle to suggest that Steve & Co. don't understand the consumer mindset.
I might have gone too far with the "elitist Apple-ites" analogy. They generally know what consumers want and are obviously quite good at producing popular products, but this is the kind of mistake that Apple is famous for and the few mistakes they make, always seem to be along these lines (not understanding what the average consumer really wants).
The G4 Cube was a fantastic product for instance, but the things it was designed to excel at were things that the average consumer ultimately didn't care so much about (no noise, small desktop footprint, etc.). The hockey puck mouse is another example. Steve introduced it as, and genuinely thought it was, the best mouse design anyone had ever seen. It was universally reviled by the average joe however because average people just don't hold their mice the way in which you have to hold the hockey-puck mouse for it to work properly and feel comfortable in your hand.
Sorry you did ask that and I did not give you that answer in my long winded response before
When I have had a signal the quality has been okay for the most part, a couple of calls were really scratchy but I have to be 100% honest, its to soon to tell about that part yet. I can only speak about the visual aspect but I will post that experience in the next few days as i go about my business.
I'd still like to know what the 4.1 release notes say about this. (Or whether you were just referring to the letter) It seems odd they would put any changes they are intending related to iP4 antenna/bar/signal problems into a developer beta in final form but not actually release them to users.
No, I was responding to the post saying how "arrogant" and so forth Apple's statements on the iPhone 4 antenna have been.
I'm saying that the fact that the consumer's didn't appreciate the truth of the statement "your holding it wrong," and instead take it as an insult, is basically due to their lack of intelligence/savy/perception/etc. I was also poking fun at Apple a bit for being in so elitist that it never even occurred to them that a lot of people hold the phone in this troglodytic "cupped-paw-to-the-head" fashion that stops the signal.
The phone is what it is. I think it's a great design and don't believe there is any problem with it given that it works exactly the way it was designed to work and does so exceedingly well. It seems obvious to me that the signal degradation that occurs when you hold the phone the "wrong way," is far from a surprise to the engineers and not a "flaw" per se. It was designed that way.
If there are iPhone 4's that are defective in some way (and I'm not really convinced there are yet), then it's certainly not all of them, or even a large number of them.
Thanks. I now understand your intent. From this comment it really is an intelligent comment. If I knew you I wouldn't have questioned your comment. The wriiten word is not always the best at implying a person's meanings.
If they were just going to say what they already have, they would have just released a statement to the press.
I hope they do something, I upgraded the beta 4.1 today and wham, not good.
4.1 did nothing to fix the problem in fact I am really sorry to say I think it made it worse on my phone. Before I had to really squeeze hard to get the results everyone else was having so i did not think it was that big of a deal, now after 4.1, I just hold it slightly and the bars drop like a rock!
This is a great example of the ignorance of even somewhat savvy (presumably) people as to what is going on. MacBearDan (no offense to him,) like many people, seems to think that the problem is "worse" now because with the "fix" his signal display is more sensitive on the high end (where signal strength doesn't really matter) whereas before it was "better" when it when it was more sensitive on the low end, where that increased sensitivity had some value.
Guess what? It probably was better before, but nothing has changed WRT the phone's reception?only the display has changed. But now Apple has been forced into addressing what a whining misinformed, minority has assumed they wanted?a less useful signal strength indicator.
it's a strange world!
This is clearly the result of inadequate testing on Apple's part. Likely that every prototype iPhone, whether on or off the Cupertino campus, was shrouded in a case that masked the problem.
Huh? You truly think that Apple didn't test their new metal frame == external antenna?! I'm convinced that Apple knew about this "problem" but determined that it's better to release it than probably not have a iPhone 4 in time. Now it has blown up in their faces. In a way they deserve it - people getting a bit too cocky and arrogant in Cupertino...
Personally, I find this situation quite hilarious. I can make my iPhone 4 stop all data transmission when I touch the gap even though it shows 5 bars (in the vicinity of a micro-cell). So what?! The moment I don't touch the gap, the phone resumes immediately at several Mbps down and 100s of kbps up. To me, the look and feel of this design (glass, stainless and the antenna) trumps 100% reliability as a function of grip. And no, the phone is not useless. It won't drop calls and won't stop data transmission if you manage to not touch the gap. Is that SOOOOOOOOOOOO difficult to do.
I recommend apple apply a sticker to the gap, labeling it the "hangup call" button. They should file a patent!!!
I do feel bad for clumsy people who have limited control over their fingers and can't handle this phone
Well, if the world was full of intelligent reasonable people that like hearing the truth then telling people they are holding it wrong would actually be the *best* way to go, since that's essentially the only problem.
The trouble is that Steve and Co. have no idea how the average dumb-ass consumers reacts to statements like that. So, yeah. It was a bad move I guess.
This whole debacle shows off Apple's achilles heel. They make superior products because they are a superior company full of superior human beings, but as a result, they just don't get how regular folks think sometimes. Same with the Hockey puck mouse for the original iMac. To a designer, it's beauty, art, etc. but to the average computer user it was a POS that didn't fit in your hand.
So, is your thesis 'professor', that the consumer is to blame for Apple's problem with the iPhone? How many mobile phones have you owned that required instructions on how to hold them?
Unbelievable.
At least they're going to address it. Even Apple knows that staying quiet with an issue this big (or saying "you're holding it wrong") is a dumbass mistake.
Who said they were even going to talk about the antenna issues?
The iPhone 4 is due for release soon in other countries, so it may simply be about that.
Apple can be amazingly ignorant/arrogant and with more people telling them what they should do, the less likely they are to do anything.
You don't call a press conference to reiterate what you've already said. That's just asking for media trouble.
If they were just going to say what they already have, they would have just released a statement to the press.
Wow, I had to read through 75 posts before I found anyone making this obviously true statement.
Because they've sole millions of phones and there are only a few reports of problems.
That means nothing. I will pick up an iPhone because many apps sync with my apps on the Mac and I've spent over $600 on apps. I also don't trust glass on both sides so I will buy a case. Just because Toyota made a recall recently doesn't mean that many were returning their vehicles.
I've been using Apple products since I was in 2nd and I'm 32. The only Wondows product I've actually bought was a Dell with WindowsME in college (my first computer that I could afford) so you should know the nighare I had been through. This is the first time I had ever considered buying am Amdroid phone.
Appleay bey favorite company but I'll toss them to the side if they don't provide a quality product. This is business and I don't give away my money to anyone.