The Free Speech Thread

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  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post


    Those of us with large fingers or slight shakiness in our movements can find typing on the iPhone an exercise in madness.



    No doubt. I wasn't trying to be an ass about it. But if one is going to post and one does have problems with the iPhone keyboard, then one should be extra careful or wait until you are at a computer.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Hi Dr. Laura, thank you for having me on your show.



    You're welcome. What's your question?



    I'm American. I have a problem with some of my British friends. They like going around and calling other Americans "Cunts". It offends me. How do I convince them to be a little more sensitive?



    Cunt, cunt, cunt. Americans call people cunts all the time. If you people would just stop attaching such significance to the word, it wouldn't have the power that it has today.



    Really?



    Yeah! Next time they say it, just ignore them.



    Oh, so it's alright for people to call other people "cunt"?



    As long as we don't make a big deal about it it won't hurt anybody.



    So, do you think it might help if I call people "cunt" too?



    Well, it might help dilute the shock of the word, so yes, i suppose it would.



    So you don't mind if I call you "cunt", then?



    Um...



    Wow! Thanks for your help, Dr. Cunt. I'll try your suggestion. You're always such a wise and strong woman, for a cunt. Goodbye, Dr. Cunt. I'll tell all my friends that whenever they have a question about racism or foul language, they should just ask Dr Cunt, and Dr. Cunt will gladly help them.[Click]
  • brbr Posts: 8,255member
    Yeah, very glad Dr. Laura is finally leaving the airwaves and won't be dishing out awful advice anymore. (please don't write more books...please don't write more books...)



    Hah, reminds me of that awesome NOFX song "You're Wrong"



    Quote:

    You're wrong about virtues of Christianity

    And you're wrong if you agree with Sean Hannity

    If you think that pride is about nationality, you're wrong



    You're wrong when you imprison people turning tricks

    And you're wrong about trickle down economics

    If you think that punk rock doesn't mix with politics, you're wrong



    You're wrong for hating queers and eating steers

    If you kill for the thrill of the hunt

    You're wrong 'bout wearing fur and not hating Ann Coulter

    Cause she's a cunted cunt




    You're wrong if you celebrate Columbus Day

    And You're wrong if you think there will be a Judgement Day

    If you're a charter member of the NRA, you're wrong



    You're wrong if you support capital punishment

    And you're wrong if you don't question your government

    If you think her reproductive rights are inconsequent, you're wrong



    You're wrong fighting Jihad, your blind faith in God

    Your religions are all flawed,

    You're wrong about drug use, when its not abuse

    I hope you never reproduce



    You're getting high on the downlow

    A victim of Cointelpro

    You're wrong and will probably never know



  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    I wonder, do tonton's hypothetical exchange and the NOFX song referred to by BR fit into the "Two Wrongs Make a Right" category?
  • camp davidcamp david Posts: 692member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BR View Post


    Yeah, very glad Dr. Laura is finally leaving the airwaves ...



    It is fascinating, and a tad bit sad, to see how liberals express their hate toward conservative women... whether it is advise guru Laura Schlessinger, political pundit Ann Coulter, or former Governor Sarah Palin, liberals go out of their way to attack them viciously...



    Sad.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    I wonder, do tonton's hypothetical exchange and the NOFX song referred to by BR fit into the "Two Wrongs Make a Right" category?



    This is the free speech thread, no?



    Can I ask you if you support Dr. Laura's "nigger" comments, and the way she put it, to a black woman on the other end of the line?
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    This is the free speech thread, no?



    Yes it is.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Can I ask you if you support Dr. Laura's "nigger" comments, and the way she put it, to a black woman on the other end of the line?



    I don't know what her comments were beyond a couple of headlines indicating that she used the word.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Yes it is.









    I don't know what her comments were beyond a couple of headlines indicating that she used the word.



    So you don't read the news, you just read the headlines? Or do you pick and choose to read those stories that you think will fit in with your philosophy and ignore those you think may be critical?



    Anyway, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your reason was neither of those, but I'm still curious about why you chose not to read this particular story.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    So you don't read the news, you just read the headlines?



    Yes. That's exactly what I said. That's also exactly the correct inference from what I said. You must be some kind of fucking genius.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Or do you pick and choose to read those stories that you think will fit in with your philosophy and ignore those you think may be critical?









    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Anyway, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume your reason was neither of those,



    How gracious of you.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    but I'm still curious about why you chose not to read this particular story.



    I have other things to read and pay attention to.



    I really don't care what Dr. Laura does or says. Why do you? It's not important to me. Why is it for you?
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    I really don't care what Dr. Laura does or says. Why do you? It's not important to me. Why is it for you?



    So... you don't know the story, don't know what she said, yet you assume that my satirical criticism of her is "a wrong".



    Typical.
  • mj1970mj1970 Posts: 9,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    So... you don't know the story, don't know what she said, yet you assume that my satirical criticism of her is "a wrong".



    Wrong. I was simply asking whether or not someone using an offensive word (like "cunt") as you suggest in your hypothetical conversation or as was done in the NOFX song quoted by BR in response to a first person (e.g., Dr. Laura) using a different offensive word ("nigger") is in the realm of doing a second wrong in response to an initial wrong thinking it will make things right.



    It wasn't all that complicated.



    Furthermore, can I assume that your hypothetical dialog is a replication of what was done on the Dr. Laura show only with "nigger" replaced with "cunt"? If so, ok. Then you are doing exactly what she did with a different word. You simply chose a word that you think she might find offensive. If your point (claim) is that she would have behaved differently were the tables turned on her, then perhaps you are right. I guess we won't ever know that for sure so at this point it would be pure conjecture.



  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post


    Wrong. I was simply asking whether or not someone using an offensive word (like "cunt") as you suggest in your hypothetical conversation or as was done in the NOFX song quoted by BR in response to a first person (e.g., Dr. Laura) using a different offensive word ("nigger") is in the realm of doing a second wrong in response to an initial wrong thinking it will make things right.



    Now that makes more sense.

    Quote:

    Furthermore, can I assume that your hypothetical dialog is a replication of what was done on the Dr. Laura show only with "nigger" replaced with "cunt"?



    Yes.

    Quote:

    If so, ok. Then you are doing exactly what she did with a different word.



    That's exactly the point.

    Quote:

    You simply chose a word that you think she might find offensive.



    Bingo!

    Quote:

    If your point (claim) is that she would have behaved differently were the tables turned on her, then perhaps you are right.



    Thank you for that benefit.

    Quote:

    I guess we won't ever know that for sure so at this point it would be pure conjecture.



    I don't think conjecture is the right word here. But my point was made. It was satire. It wasn't meant to be a literal prediction of what she would say.
  • brbr Posts: 8,255member
    If everyone is to be treated with the same standards, based on other far smaller gaffes that have gotten other radio personalities fired, Dr. Laura should have been shitcanned immediately. I would prefer the FCC lift their restrictions on radio as dropping n-bombs is far more offensive than saying "tits" or "cock", but we live in a very odd society where massive violence and racism aren't obscene but sex is (thanks, Christians!).



    If she begins costing her radio station sponsors, then that's a better reason to fire her. Either way, I'm happy she's gone because I feel she embodies much of what is wrong with America and I don't like that she can reach so many people so easily with her hate-filled messages. That alone isn't reason to fire her. But I'm glad she's gone.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    I know I already shared this story in the Misc. News thread, but I wanted to share another article providing more details and share some additional thoughts of my own.



    Mormon bishop fatally shot in California chapel; gunman killed



    Quote:

    The man shot Sannar in the foot then pulled him into the foyer, where he shot him in the face, the other bishop said, citing witness reports.



    Quote:

    Jordan said it does not appear anyone in the ward knew the shooter, who "is not a member of the church."



    Absolutely nothing whatsoever about this on Huffington Post yet, and most news outlets are simply reprinting the generic AP article.



    I have to wonder what kind of attention such a story would receive if it had been a Muslim cleric brutally murdered in his own mosque.



    At this point, I am not jumping to any conclusions. I am not speculating as to the suspect's motives - I prefer to let the investigators sort all that out. All I can do is offer my heartfelt prayers for the victim's family and congregation - as well as the suspect's family.



    But I believe that if the victim were a Muslim cleric, we would be seeing numerous articles and blogs out there immediately trying to link this heinous act to the Tea Party Movement, or to radical Christian fundamentalists, or other such perceived political enemies of the left.



    Much like what happened with the NYC cabbie who got stabbed when a drunk man asked him if he was Muslim and he responded in the affirmative. In reality, the suspect in that case was nothing more than a drunkard whose motives are uncertain. He even worked or volunteered for a pro-Park51 ("Ground Zero Mosque") group!



    It's quite apparent to me that the big box parties (Democrats AND Republicans) and their pundits in the media are using Muslims - and by extension the "Ground Zero Mosque" issue - as a "political football". Actually, make that religion in general. It's not about religious tolerance or protecting the First Amendment at all. It's about exploiting any and every news story and issue possible for political gain. The same goes for race, gender, abortion, and any other such controversial and divisive issue.



    In the case of a Mormon bishop being murdered in his own church, there is apparently little to gain politically as evidenced by the attention (or lack, thereof) given to it.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    If he was shot simply for being Mormon, and there was no connection to the shooter, then it was a hate crime, open and shut, and just as heinous as any lynching in Texas.



    You obviously don't follow HuffPo. If you did, you would realize that almost nothing is posted between 10pm Saturday night and 12pm Monday afternoon. I bet you it'll be up within an hour.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    You obviously don't follow HuffPo. If you did, you would realize that almost nothing is posted between 10pm Saturday night and 12pm Monday afternoon. I bet you it'll be up within an hour.



    You're correct. I don't follow it on a regular basis, but pop in from time to time to see what they've got. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check it later today.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Looks like HuffPo got around to reprinting an AP article about it at 4:05 EST today. But there's no link to the story anywhere on the main page.
  • tontontonton Posts: 14,064member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post


    Looks like HuffPo got around to reprinting an AP article about it at 4:05 EST today. But there's no link to the story anywhere on the main page.



    Interesting update. I knew there had to be SOME connection to the church. So this wasn't a hate crime, after all.
  • jazzgurujazzguru Posts: 6,435member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by tonton View Post


    Interesting update. I knew there had to be SOME connection to the church. So this wasn't a hate crime, after all.



    What murder isn't done out of hate?



    But I know what you mean - it doesn't fall under so-called "hate crime laws". Just some poor guy who wasn't right in the head and finally decided to act on his delusions. Sad stuff.



    And also interesting that nobody jumped on the story and claimed that it was a hate crime before all the facts came out. Completely different reaction than the NYC cabbie stabbing story.
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