John Carmack shows 'Rage' 60 fps game engine on iPhone 4
Speaking at QuakeCon, id Software cofounder and video game luminary John Carmack demonstrated the company's id tech 5 gaming engine running a Rage-themed demonstration on iPhone 4 at an impressive 60 frames per second.
The demonstration keynote, live blogged by Kotaku, profiled an upcoming release of the new Rage engine in an iOS title which Carmack said would run on not just iPhone 4 but also "runs great on an original 2G iPhone" and is "incredibly cool on an iPad."
The Rage demo lights scenes with radiosity to accurately simulate diffuse indirect illumination and shadows, and also features id's MegaTexture technique of using a single large texture rather than repeating a single small texture tile over a surface. That results in a mobile game in the hundreds of megabytes, Carmack said.
Calculating 60 frames per second is a major battery draw on mobile devices, so Carmack said the game would ship with an option to run at 30 frames per second as well.
iPhone as games platform
The new App Store title will serve as a low-priced promotion for the later, larger Rage launches aimed at console gaming platforms next year. The iPhone app sprang from an initial experiment to do something on the Nintendo Wii. Carmack also noted that an effort to deliver DOOM 3 on the Wii turned into a project that instead created Doom Resurrection for the iPhone App Store.
Carmack said in 2008 that the iPhone was "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined," and now says he could use it to "kill anything done on the Xbox or PlayStation 2."
In addition to impressive graphics capabilities, the iPhone also has a business model that supports development. Carmack said id could bring some of its iPhone games to Android, but is still "spot-surveying the market," and that "it won't happen this cycle."
The developer has already launched a variety of iOS titles that brought a series of existing and classic games to the iTunes App Store, including Doom, Doom II, Doom Resurrection and Wolfenstein 3D, all of which are on sale through Sunday as part of a promotion during the QuakeCon event.
Apple on video games
Carmack also said he has been talking with Apple on future directions, noting that former id game designer Graeme Devine is now working at Apple in its iPhone Game Technologies group.
"At their heart and core they're not really a game-friendly company," Carmack said of Apple, echoing comments he made a year ago that top executives in the company were surprised that gaming has become popular on the iPod touch, iPhone and iPad and somewhat reluctantly had to get behind gaming while really wishing that the mobile platform were used for more serious tasks.
Carmack began his career working on the Apple IIGS and built the original DOOM gaming engine on NeXTSTEP. In 1997, Carmack called the classic Mac OS "the only OS other than win32 that matters, and it doesn't matter all that much," adding that, "I have zero respect for the MacOS on a technical basis. They just stood still and let Microsoft run right over them from waaay behind. I wouldn't develop on it."
In contrast, he noted that NeXTSTEP was his "favorite environment" and that "it just makes sense on so many more levels than Windows." He expressed hope that Apple's acquisition of NeXT would "do the right thing," specifically noting "if I can convince Apple to do a good hardware accelerated OpenGL in rhapsody, I would be very likely to give my Win NT machine the cold shoulder and do future development on Rhapsody. (I really don't need QuickDraw 3D evangelists preaching to me right now, thank you)."
Apple subsequently dropped its own QuickDraw 3D to embrace OpenGL in Mac OS X. Carmack has commented that working with Apple in gaming continues to be a roller coaster experience, an opinion shared by other top game developers including Valve Software's Gabe Newell, who recently brought Steam to the Mac platform.
Future of gaming
Carmack said he knew surprisingly little about future of Sony and Microsoft's next consoles, but said is he's ready to be making motion-based games and is not a fan of 3D TV.
Currently, the video game console market is busy pushing motion based gaming largely in reaction to the successful Wii, while TV and BluRay vendors are trying hard to sell 3D as feature in sets.
While Apple hasn't jumped into the stereoscopic 3D area yet, it was first to bring gyroscope six axis motion control to mobile devices with iPhone 4. Apple is also working to build Game Center as a new centralized service for developers and gamers on iOS devices.
The demonstration keynote, live blogged by Kotaku, profiled an upcoming release of the new Rage engine in an iOS title which Carmack said would run on not just iPhone 4 but also "runs great on an original 2G iPhone" and is "incredibly cool on an iPad."
The Rage demo lights scenes with radiosity to accurately simulate diffuse indirect illumination and shadows, and also features id's MegaTexture technique of using a single large texture rather than repeating a single small texture tile over a surface. That results in a mobile game in the hundreds of megabytes, Carmack said.
Calculating 60 frames per second is a major battery draw on mobile devices, so Carmack said the game would ship with an option to run at 30 frames per second as well.
iPhone as games platform
The new App Store title will serve as a low-priced promotion for the later, larger Rage launches aimed at console gaming platforms next year. The iPhone app sprang from an initial experiment to do something on the Nintendo Wii. Carmack also noted that an effort to deliver DOOM 3 on the Wii turned into a project that instead created Doom Resurrection for the iPhone App Store.
Carmack said in 2008 that the iPhone was "more powerful than a Nintendo DS and PSP combined," and now says he could use it to "kill anything done on the Xbox or PlayStation 2."
In addition to impressive graphics capabilities, the iPhone also has a business model that supports development. Carmack said id could bring some of its iPhone games to Android, but is still "spot-surveying the market," and that "it won't happen this cycle."
The developer has already launched a variety of iOS titles that brought a series of existing and classic games to the iTunes App Store, including Doom, Doom II, Doom Resurrection and Wolfenstein 3D, all of which are on sale through Sunday as part of a promotion during the QuakeCon event.
Apple on video games
Carmack also said he has been talking with Apple on future directions, noting that former id game designer Graeme Devine is now working at Apple in its iPhone Game Technologies group.
"At their heart and core they're not really a game-friendly company," Carmack said of Apple, echoing comments he made a year ago that top executives in the company were surprised that gaming has become popular on the iPod touch, iPhone and iPad and somewhat reluctantly had to get behind gaming while really wishing that the mobile platform were used for more serious tasks.
Carmack began his career working on the Apple IIGS and built the original DOOM gaming engine on NeXTSTEP. In 1997, Carmack called the classic Mac OS "the only OS other than win32 that matters, and it doesn't matter all that much," adding that, "I have zero respect for the MacOS on a technical basis. They just stood still and let Microsoft run right over them from waaay behind. I wouldn't develop on it."
In contrast, he noted that NeXTSTEP was his "favorite environment" and that "it just makes sense on so many more levels than Windows." He expressed hope that Apple's acquisition of NeXT would "do the right thing," specifically noting "if I can convince Apple to do a good hardware accelerated OpenGL in rhapsody, I would be very likely to give my Win NT machine the cold shoulder and do future development on Rhapsody. (I really don't need QuickDraw 3D evangelists preaching to me right now, thank you)."
Apple subsequently dropped its own QuickDraw 3D to embrace OpenGL in Mac OS X. Carmack has commented that working with Apple in gaming continues to be a roller coaster experience, an opinion shared by other top game developers including Valve Software's Gabe Newell, who recently brought Steam to the Mac platform.
Future of gaming
Carmack said he knew surprisingly little about future of Sony and Microsoft's next consoles, but said is he's ready to be making motion-based games and is not a fan of 3D TV.
Currently, the video game console market is busy pushing motion based gaming largely in reaction to the successful Wii, while TV and BluRay vendors are trying hard to sell 3D as feature in sets.
While Apple hasn't jumped into the stereoscopic 3D area yet, it was first to bring gyroscope six axis motion control to mobile devices with iPhone 4. Apple is also working to build Game Center as a new centralized service for developers and gamers on iOS devices.
Comments
Speaking at QuakeCon, id Software cofounder and video game luminary John Carmack demonstrated the company's id tech 5 gaming engine running a Rage-themed demonstration on iPhone 4 at an impressive 60 frames per second.
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
WOW
One advantage that iPhone has over a system like the PSP and Android (and I would speculate that this would continue to be a problem on a combined PSP/Android phone) is piracy. From what I understand, developers have avoided the PSP because of rampant piracy problems. Apart from a huge backlog of PlayStation One games, I wonder if Sony can attract developers to the Android PSP the way Apple can to iOS - as evidenced by this article.
Just wait until iTV is released and the controller can be iPhones and touch's. There are some companies who are testing controllers for the touch to satisfy the gamer.
This is an interesting counterpoint to the earlier Android/PlayStation announcement today. Competition is good.
One advantage that iPhone has over a system like the PSP and Android (and I would speculate that this would continue to be a problem on a combined PSP/Android phone) is piracy. From what I understand, developers have avoided the PSP because of rampant piracy problems. Apart from a huge backlog of PlayStation One games, I wonder if Sony can attract developers to the Android PSP the way Apple can to iOS - as evidenced by this article.
Yep! That is exactly what I commented in that other post about Sony PSP Phone - And before even seeing this article. This is totally awesome! Apple has made some very good strategic decisions. They knew which way they were heading when they changed themselves from a Computer hardware company to a Consumer company when they dropped "Computer" from their name couple of years back.
There is no much load on iPhone but for the visuals. What happens when you add physics, AI, big open-plan levels..? How is it going to cope then?
That beside... processing power was never a sign of platform's success in gaming. PS2 was way behind original XBOX in raw power, but was much more successful. Gameboy blew out PSP even if significantly inferior. And WII is best selling console in current generation.
I do have both 3Gs and PSP, and while I did not play PSP much (with PC and PS2 and Ps3 in the house) I did go through couple of games (God of War being the last). I did try number of trials/lites on 3Gs and none has inspired me to purchase full version, save for a few quick ones (Angry Birds and likes). Much as I am concerned, heavy duty gaming still requires hardware controls, if nothing else. While GTA: Chinatown Wars look comparable on 3Gs and PSP, controls make the whole difference.
Very, very impressive graphics by Carmack. He's a step above all right.
Aesthetically I think the Unreal Engine 3 (after a few tweaks to improve texturing and so on) (UE3, Bioshock, Mass Effect 2, etc...) and Valve's Source are one of the most impressive. For racing games, forget about Need For Speed, Grid and Dirt2 are very naiice.... I don't really like the Quake 3 or 4 engine, aesthetically. Wolfenstein (the latest 3D one released within the past few years) was quite impressive but I think the studio that worked on it somehow screwed up the engine because they took the Quake 4 engine which was originally OpenGL and fiddled with that to make it DX9/ DX10 instead. Or something like that, if someone could clarify that would be great.
That said, Carmack is able to code some insane stuff.
I just really hope a decent Rage for iPad game comes out and I'll definitely be buying that. I still like a bit of shooter action but I've put away my PC gaming rig in the cupboard for a few months now. USD $60 for Starcraft 2? And just the Terran campaign? And constant (?) online authorisation? F*** that shite.
Give me iPad. I pay $10, download, none of this pesky authorisation, I know it works on my platform, no need to worry about graphics drivers, Windows updates, antivirus etc. etc.
When iOS gaming comes somewhere close to Xbox360 gaming, that'll be a real sweet spot for "mobile console" gaming circa 2011-2013.
I think AppleTV may only launch in 2011, but if AMD's Fusion is real and can deliver, then we're talking Xbox360-quality graphics on iOS games. Integration with iPods and iPhones and iPads, boy, some ripe stuff there, now we know why Apple is keeping the AppleTV around even though it's just a "hobby" at this stage.
In a way there are many things Apple could push forward, but it is very interesting that Apple has now let the market dictate what iOS should be, in some ways. They've been listening to developers and users. Sure, they still want real tight control of hardware and iOS core integration, but application-wise, it's like telling the developers, here's the tools, here's the platform, go nuts...!
On that point, why hasn't a 3rd party developer made a Flash playback application of some sort ... maybe I'm not aware of one, but such a thing should be possible. They've had 3rd-party Flash decompilers for at least 8 years now, so there's not much mystery in the compiled Flash file format, and there are simple 3rd party tools to even *make* Flash files.
If anyone can push any platform graphically, it's John Carmack. He's literally a rocket scientist. However let's also keep in mind that this a tech demo, so things like AI aren't still fully implemented. Regardless, this looks impressive.
Get over yourself on John's background. He's not a physicist, nor a mechanical engineer, nor a chemist.
He's a rich software game pioneer who has money to burn and is investing his ideas into commercial space travel. He's got a very solid team of engineers and scientists working for him.
Good looking demo (for a phone) - but all I saw were a few rooms with decent lightning and a few dummies going through same movement loop.
There is no much load on iPhone but for the visuals. What happens when you add physics, AI, big open-plan levels..? How is it going to cope then?
That beside... processing power was never a sign of platform's success in gaming. PS2 was way behind original XBOX in raw power, but was much more successful. Gameboy blew out PSP even if significantly inferior. And WII is best selling console in current generation.
I do have both 3Gs and PSP, and while I did not play PSP much (with PC and PS2 and Ps3 in the house) I did go through couple of games (God of War being the last). I did try number of trials/lites on 3Gs and none has inspired me to purchase full version, save for a few quick ones (Angry Birds and likes). Much as I am concerned, heavy duty gaming still requires hardware controls, if nothing else. While GTA: Chinatown Wars look comparable on 3Gs and PSP, controls make the whole difference.
Making a hardware controller with bluetooth or a cable to the dock connector sholdn't be rocket science I think...
Making a game and a graphics demo are two completely different things. This demo also has baked lighting etc. so it's nothing spectacular. Add enemy AI, collision checks, physics, particle effects, scripting etc. and you'll see the framerate take a serious hit.
Wow, too bad you can't be Mr. Carmack's advisor. What was he thinking demonstrating this today before talking about all these concerns with you? Hopefully he knows about some of the things you mentioned because it would be really embarrassing for him to demo this without being aware of how these things will affect the end results. I'm sure he wouldn't have step foot on stage if he had known that. And as we all know, he's new to this whole game programming thing so he probably doesn't even know what he's talking about.
I'm just thankful we have so many experts in these forums who can keep the man on the right path.
Making a game and a graphics demo are two completely different things. This demo also has baked lighting etc. so it's nothing spectacular. Add enemy AI, collision checks, physics, particle effects, scripting etc. and you'll see the framerate take a serious hit.
Have you any idea who John Carmack is? No, the demo does not have baked lighting, because Carmack would not do that.
and Valve's Source are one of the most impressive.
There's nothing impressive about Source, it's a relic in every way. It lacks per basic pixel lighting for a start, which has been standard in other engines for close to 10 years now, let alone more complex, newer tech. (I'm talking environments here)
Compare it to the likes of Unreal 3, Anvil, CryEngine 2, and especially id Tech 5... there's just no comparison
Very, very impressive graphics by Carmack. He's a step above all right.
Its amazing to read the 180 on Carmack from people on these boards... When Carmack was going on about how much Apple/Mac sucks, everyone was against him stating that he and his games were no longer relevant. Now that he showed a controlled demo that looks good, he is a hero...
I still can't believe the amount of hype video game demonstrations receive.