I AM a commie - just not a Soviet style communist. This is so typical of Americans (and westerners in general) to simply lump true communists in with Soviets.
Tru communists are those who believe all are equal and that absolutely no one deserves preferential treatment. With the absolution of private property, the public is far better off than in a capitalist society where examples such as private electricity, health care and water services have done nothing but undermine the non-wealthy.
Commie or nazi? I think this is the most ignorant thread I have ever seen started on these boards. The nazis were a particular group that killed millions of people. Communism is an ideology that has drawbacks but many benefits too. If the entire world was communist, you wouldn't have an oligopoly in the "entertainment" industry that has basically destroyed American culture. No Jerry Springer show and no one pandering to the lowest common denominator. No Clear Channel Communications that has basically destroyed the art of radio. You wouldn't have advertising in your face everywhere you go and telemarketers calling your house. There wouldn't be sleezy tabloid shows where they follow around stars and invade their privacy because there would be no profit motive. No huge gap between the rich and poor that leads to anger, resentment and crime and more teen pregnancy.
Communism isn't the answer but out of control capitalism is almost as destructive. Maybe there was little freedom in the communist countries but there is TOO MUCH freedom in America. Life in the U.S. is nothing to brag about.
I've never heard such drivel in my life. There is too much freedom here? God bless it.
Freedom affords me the opportunity to tell you what an ass you are for having such whiny ass views on our kickass country and how much power our "Western Ways" wields.
<strong>Tru communists are those who believe all are equal and that absolutely no one deserves preferential treatment. With the absolution of private property, the public is far better off than in a capitalist society where examples such as private electricity, health care and water services have done nothing but undermine the non-wealthy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
while your point is valid..the fact that in a communist socitey somoene who works as hard as they can gets as much of a reward for their hard work as a lazy shit that does the bare minimum or GASP! even nothing... because there is no private property, there would be nothing worthwhile to work for other then the good of the country...and a country that doesnt allow me to do what I want is not a country that I would support...
YES america isnt perfect
YES I do not like a LOT of things about america (entertainment industry and advertizing industry and even the gov't in general)
but the fact of the matter is, in America I @ least have the right to voice my opinions and if necesary fight for my justice and I would have the constitution to back me up...
Edit: and to get back on subject, I would probably choose to fight nazisim and do nothing with communism IE be that lazy shit so I can get all my bills paid for for "free"
"Freedom affords me the opportunity to tell you what an ass you are for having such whiny ass views on our kickass country and how much power our "Western Ways" wields."
There is a difference between freedom and anarchy. Freedom means that each person has the choice to live life the way they want to. You can do whatever you want UNTIL IT STARTS AFFECTING ME. Then there is too much freedom and this is anarchy. And in anarchy everyone loses their freedom.
What if I don't want my kids to see garbage like Jerry Springer or Cops? What if I don't want them to see idiots yelling at each other on Divorce Court? I can't get away from this because it is everywhere in public. In hospitals, restaurants, airports, etc. there is material that is not appropriate for children.
Freedom doesn't mean that you watch whatever you want wherever you want. That way we only get one choice. Freedom means that objectionable material has restictions on it like it used to. Back in the 70s, they only put R-rated movies on at night so parents could control what their kids saw. Now i go into a laundromat and there's cursing, fighting, etc. on the the TV.
I find stuff like Jerry Springer unpleasant because I was raised with values and am not a piece of trash. When I hear about a seventeen year old with two kids I think that it's a heartbreaking tragedy. I don't consider it entertainment. I don't want to desensitize myself to misery for the sake of cheap laughs. You only get one choice in America, which is to see this trash wherever you go.
Face it, all the values that Americans once had and believed in and bragged about are gone. iIf you are under the age of twenty five, you probably don't understand what it means when people live by values. And I am not conservative or religious, just exactly the opposite.
If you'd like me to go one by one through each value that Americans no longer have, I'll be happy to. I'll show you what total hypocrites Americans are.
Here's one. Once upon a time it was believed that children should not witness arguments by parents. Thinking people believed that children should have innocence and that negativity should always be a last resort. Children should not be involved in the emtions of dispute until they are old enought to deal with it in a mature way. Now I see people arguing all the time in front of kids in real life and on garbage shows like Divorce Court. If you're watching adults argue right in front of their chiilden on a TV show, then you are in complete disagreement with the ideals Americans had two generations ago.
This is just one. I'll give you a hudred others if you like.
"YES I do not like a LOT of things about america (entertainment industry and advertizing industry and even the gov't in general)
but the fact of the matter is, in America I @ least have the right to voice my opinions and if necesary fight for my justice and I would have the constitution to back me up..."
You have the right to voice your opinion but what does that mean and what does that get you in a practical sense? For example, Microsoft is a monopoly and they have almost destroyed all innovation in the computer industry. They could kill Apple by taking away Office. But Americans don't care because they don't fear too much power in so few hands. In fact, they worship concentrated power rather than fear it. Americans have the ability too make things fair but they don't put it into practice.
I have the freedom to say that the Big Five music companies are an oligopoly and that radio stations suck because they are forced to play the same limited selections of songs. I remember when you could hear 100 times as many songs on each stations, not just the big sellers. But since Americans don't care, and they don't have the principles to fear too much power in so few hands, my opinion doesn't count for anything. What's fair and right doesn't guide what happens.
I have a friend from Poland and from talking to him I get a different point of view. In theory Americans have the power of self determination to choose what kind of lives to live and the environment in which to raise their kids. In practice the big corporations push society in whatever direction is most profitable. What good is the possibility of freedom and self determination if you don't put it into practice?
The old Soviet Union was "communist" by name only; the fact that communism's principal figures of the early 20th century aspired to "communism" doesn't mean that the final resulting government was truly communist. There was as much heirarchy and "unequality" as in any western or capitalist nation. True communism on a large or national scale has never existed. The only true communist societies are small, where the individual members are there voluntarily. If forced to, I would belong to a smallscale communist society, such as an Israeli kibbutz. Communism as a political system is all but dead...and a good thing too...but the USA still ultra-paranoid about it.
Re. Naziism...the ugliest system that humanity has devised. And it's far from dead.
Given the unpleasant choice between the two, I would take neither...and if I was killed or imprisoned due to not conforming, then so be it.
a typical 'pear shaped' forum thread. Starts with a few replies... then bloats to huge replies bitching and eachother about things.
Ah well...
Communism: Great idea, but totally not possible in societies that are too big. Thats why it worked great in smaller tribes and such.
Fascism: Also somewhat good idea, but has always seemigly fubbed up.
I guess democracy is the only way to go...
But to answer the question: From what I have seen, a German Nazi lived and worked pretty damn well. The problem arose when YOU were not a Nazi or on the reciving end of their wrath. I would have to say I would rather be a Nazi in a Nazi society rather than a 'commie' in a soviet style society.
PS Nazi is National Socialism. Its a fascism. So, the question would be better phrased as Nazi or Soviet Commie. OR Communist or Fascist (the two general terms)
Comments
I'd rather commit suicide.
<strong>
I'd rather commit suicide.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Let's start an another thread : Hell or Hades : what's your choice ? :
i'd rather commit suicide
<strong>Naziism is responsible for less deaths than Communist regimes.
I'd rather commit suicide.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, sign me up for the bullet in the head too.
Nobody could force me to pick either, they'd have to kill me first.
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Willoughby ]</p>
J :cool:
<strong>I'll choose 100 Aspirin.
J :cool: </strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> : yes it's a good way to commit suicide Jamie
I'd rather commit suicide.
- T.I.
Tru communists are those who believe all are equal and that absolutely no one deserves preferential treatment. With the absolution of private property, the public is far better off than in a capitalist society where examples such as private electricity, health care and water services have done nothing but undermine the non-wealthy.
Communism isn't the answer but out of control capitalism is almost as destructive. Maybe there was little freedom in the communist countries but there is TOO MUCH freedom in America. Life in the U.S. is nothing to brag about.
Freedom affords me the opportunity to tell you what an ass you are for having such whiny ass views on our kickass country and how much power our "Western Ways" wields.
I, Capitalist Scum! :cool:
<strong>Tru communists are those who believe all are equal and that absolutely no one deserves preferential treatment. With the absolution of private property, the public is far better off than in a capitalist society where examples such as private electricity, health care and water services have done nothing but undermine the non-wealthy.</strong><hr></blockquote>
while your point is valid..the fact that in a communist socitey somoene who works as hard as they can gets as much of a reward for their hard work as a lazy shit that does the bare minimum or GASP! even nothing... because there is no private property, there would be nothing worthwhile to work for other then the good of the country...and a country that doesnt allow me to do what I want is not a country that I would support...
YES america isnt perfect
YES I do not like a LOT of things about america (entertainment industry and advertizing industry and even the gov't in general)
but the fact of the matter is, in America I @ least have the right to voice my opinions and if necesary fight for my justice and I would have the constitution to back me up...
Edit: and to get back on subject, I would probably choose to fight nazisim and do nothing with communism IE be that lazy shit so I can get all my bills paid for for "free"
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: Paul ]</p>
then again, maybe not...
-robo
"Freedom affords me the opportunity to tell you what an ass you are for having such whiny ass views on our kickass country and how much power our "Western Ways" wields."
There is a difference between freedom and anarchy. Freedom means that each person has the choice to live life the way they want to. You can do whatever you want UNTIL IT STARTS AFFECTING ME. Then there is too much freedom and this is anarchy. And in anarchy everyone loses their freedom.
What if I don't want my kids to see garbage like Jerry Springer or Cops? What if I don't want them to see idiots yelling at each other on Divorce Court? I can't get away from this because it is everywhere in public. In hospitals, restaurants, airports, etc. there is material that is not appropriate for children.
Freedom doesn't mean that you watch whatever you want wherever you want. That way we only get one choice. Freedom means that objectionable material has restictions on it like it used to. Back in the 70s, they only put R-rated movies on at night so parents could control what their kids saw. Now i go into a laundromat and there's cursing, fighting, etc. on the the TV.
I find stuff like Jerry Springer unpleasant because I was raised with values and am not a piece of trash. When I hear about a seventeen year old with two kids I think that it's a heartbreaking tragedy. I don't consider it entertainment. I don't want to desensitize myself to misery for the sake of cheap laughs. You only get one choice in America, which is to see this trash wherever you go.
Face it, all the values that Americans once had and believed in and bragged about are gone. iIf you are under the age of twenty five, you probably don't understand what it means when people live by values. And I am not conservative or religious, just exactly the opposite.
If you'd like me to go one by one through each value that Americans no longer have, I'll be happy to. I'll show you what total hypocrites Americans are.
Here's one. Once upon a time it was believed that children should not witness arguments by parents. Thinking people believed that children should have innocence and that negativity should always be a last resort. Children should not be involved in the emtions of dispute until they are old enought to deal with it in a mature way. Now I see people arguing all the time in front of kids in real life and on garbage shows like Divorce Court. If you're watching adults argue right in front of their chiilden on a TV show, then you are in complete disagreement with the ideals Americans had two generations ago.
This is just one. I'll give you a hudred others if you like.
[ 05-16-2002: Message edited by: spindler ]</p>
but the fact of the matter is, in America I @ least have the right to voice my opinions and if necesary fight for my justice and I would have the constitution to back me up..."
You have the right to voice your opinion but what does that mean and what does that get you in a practical sense? For example, Microsoft is a monopoly and they have almost destroyed all innovation in the computer industry. They could kill Apple by taking away Office. But Americans don't care because they don't fear too much power in so few hands. In fact, they worship concentrated power rather than fear it. Americans have the ability too make things fair but they don't put it into practice.
I have the freedom to say that the Big Five music companies are an oligopoly and that radio stations suck because they are forced to play the same limited selections of songs. I remember when you could hear 100 times as many songs on each stations, not just the big sellers. But since Americans don't care, and they don't have the principles to fear too much power in so few hands, my opinion doesn't count for anything. What's fair and right doesn't guide what happens.
I have a friend from Poland and from talking to him I get a different point of view. In theory Americans have the power of self determination to choose what kind of lives to live and the environment in which to raise their kids. In practice the big corporations push society in whatever direction is most profitable. What good is the possibility of freedom and self determination if you don't put it into practice?
Re. Naziism...the ugliest system that humanity has devised. And it's far from dead.
Given the unpleasant choice between the two, I would take neither...and if I was killed or imprisoned due to not conforming, then so be it.
a typical 'pear shaped' forum thread. Starts with a few replies... then bloats to huge replies bitching and eachother about things.
Ah well...
Communism: Great idea, but totally not possible in societies that are too big. Thats why it worked great in smaller tribes and such.
Fascism: Also somewhat good idea, but has always seemigly fubbed up.
I guess democracy is the only way to go...
But to answer the question: From what I have seen, a German Nazi lived and worked pretty damn well. The problem arose when YOU were not a Nazi or on the reciving end of their wrath. I would have to say I would rather be a Nazi in a Nazi society rather than a 'commie' in a soviet style society.
PS Nazi is National Socialism. Its a fascism. So, the question would be better phrased as Nazi or Soviet Commie. OR Communist or Fascist (the two general terms)