Why not move Israel to the U.S.?
It seems a little out of proportion that so much fighting should be going on over only 8000 square miles and a few million people. The Israeli population is only a little bigger than the population of Philadelphia. The U.S. and Israel spend billions each year on defense, at least $1,000 per citizen. Israeli's make only about 1/2 as much salary per year as Americans (~$15K vs. $30K), and this is probably because they are in a poor area. If they were in Europe you know they would make at least as much as the average European country.
So there's a lot to gain and not much to lose by, say, moving them to some land in Wyoming. We have more than enough open space here. I'm sure wherever they went they would start a new economy around them.
And this conflict is now risking thousands of AMERICAN lives, too. So why not cut their losses and simply give them some land here?
If they don't want it because they need to be in Israel because it is holy than I would classify them as religious nuts and that would be their decision. if you would rather fight and risk death for "holy" land than be somewhere else leading a safe peaceful life than I would say you qualify as a religious nut.
And can anyone tell me about the history of this whole thing? If everyone knew there would be an endless dispute over land why was it set up that way? Were the Jews offered land anywhere else or did they have any other choices?
So there's a lot to gain and not much to lose by, say, moving them to some land in Wyoming. We have more than enough open space here. I'm sure wherever they went they would start a new economy around them.
And this conflict is now risking thousands of AMERICAN lives, too. So why not cut their losses and simply give them some land here?
If they don't want it because they need to be in Israel because it is holy than I would classify them as religious nuts and that would be their decision. if you would rather fight and risk death for "holy" land than be somewhere else leading a safe peaceful life than I would say you qualify as a religious nut.
And can anyone tell me about the history of this whole thing? If everyone knew there would be an endless dispute over land why was it set up that way? Were the Jews offered land anywhere else or did they have any other choices?
Comments
It wont be long before you can add Europe to that list too.
mika.
[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
Anyway, the Jews have a 2000 year history of moving all over the place because of hostility towards them, and the whole point of Israel was to finally have a Jewish state where they would not have to be the persecuted minority.
So besides the fact that the idea is logistically ludicrous, it would never happen simply for idealogical reasons. It took the Holocaust to get Israel, and Israelis are not going to give their country up so easily.
-robo
Umm... haven't they already?
Why do you think that Saturday become a public ?holliday?? And Sunday shouldn't really become a public ?holliday? either, it's just the First day converted into the Seventh day (to fit in with the Romans).
Really... People should have worked everyday, there's really no such thing as a no working day (or two) for each week.
If you think that Jews are a bunch of opressed minority people, think again. There are reasons on why some people don't like Jews, and it's not because they are a ?minority? or just because they're ?Jews?.
Note: It's not precise to equalize that Israel = Jews. Descendants of Israel consist of many people, not just Jews. The Palestines are also descendants of Israel. But even the Palestines also consist of Jews.
As for the Jews getting Israel, or at least the land area that is now called Israel.
The Jews already gained them, through the British goverment. The British took control of the area in 1917, then they just ?give? it away to the Jews in 1948.
Anyway. The primary reason that there are a lot of fighting in that place (Israel), is that .. it's only to attract attention and giving God's religion (Islam/Christian) a bad reputation. It's NOT to gain any land, because it's already been gained.
Personally, I don't think that this a territorial battle due to a religious issue.
The whole earth is God's land, and the descendants of Adam are basically nomadic people, that travel from place to place. Those that follow God's rule would just basically pick what they had and then leave the place, instead of staying at one place and get into a lot of conflicts.
Note: Imagine when Lot and his family leaved Sodom, a place that really is not fitting to live anymore.
What you saw in Israel is the opposite.
Not In My Backyard
We say it a lot, and we say it too much. The California energy crisys was a result of NIMB.
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>Well i have a much more clever idear : why dont we move the axis of evil in moon : Irack, north korea and Iran ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why can't we grow up and leave petty religious differences (and the stupid religions themselves) behind us?
<strong>why don't we just all go to the moon and leave the world to the axis of evil?</strong><hr></blockquote>
He,He, Zo you beat me on this one.
Why was Israel established in the middle east in the first place ?
Was it perhaps because no one wanted the Jews anywhere else ?
The Jews are the most persecuted nation in human history precisely because NO ONE wanted them anywhere....for two thousand years Jews have been moving from one place to the next to avoid persecution by non Jews until the persecution culminated in the Holocaust.
Did you know what happened before WW2 ? Jews from all over Europe were franticly trying to escape Europe .. no country would take them .. not the US not the UK not the USSR .. the UK which was ruling Palestine prevented Jews from immigrating to it during most of the thirties... there were literally hundreds of thousands of Jews who tried to immigrate away from the growing sphere of Nazi influence but no one let them in ! eventually most had to return to their 'Homes' only to be slaughtered later by the Nazis ! this is a huge stain on the history of the western world and not only the Germans are to blame .. all those countries who refused to accept these refugees only to see them gassed in Nazi concentration camps later are to blame as well.
If History taught us Jews one thing it taught us that we can count on no one but ourselves and that we will only be safe in our own land under our own sovereignty protecting ourselves against anyone who tries to kill us again.
We don't want to be a minority living under the grace of other people again ( like so many times in our History) is it sooo much to ask for ?
to be able to live in your own state under your own laws ? if the Palestinians, Timorese, Tibetans, etc... deserve it why don't Israelis ?
Why didn't more Jews leave Europe before the war began?
The most straightforward answer is that they simply had nowhere to go. For the Jews of Europe, as noted in Chaim Weizmann's famous remark, the world was divided into two: places where they could not live and places where they could not go. The restrictive immigration practices of the major overseas countries vis-Ã*-vis Jewish refugees reflected a global climate of economic protectionism tinged with xenophobia and outright anti-Semitism. An international conference on refugees at Evian (France) in July 1938, initiated by President Franklin D. Roosevelt, proved to be a complete fiasco. Except for the Dominican Republic, none of the representatives of the 32 countries invited offered prospective Jewish refugees from Germany and Austria any hope whatsoever.
Why didn't the Allies bomb Auschwitz?
The first detailed information about Auschwitz reached the Allies in June 1944, in a report from two escaped prisoners forwarded by Jewish underground activists in Slovakia. The information included a request to bomb the camp and the rail lines leading to it from Hungary, as masses of Hungarian Jews were then being deported to the camp. The Allies had command of the skies by that time, and air bases in Italy brought the Allied forces in the West within range of parts of Poland. From the spring to the autumn of 1944, Allied aircraft flew over the camp several times on a mission to photograph German industrial plants a few kilometers away. In the late summer these plants were bombed, but the extermination camp Auschwitz-Birkenau was never bombed.
The Allies explained their decision not to bomb the camp in several ways. They said it was technically impossible for them to reach the camp. The fact that they bombed other targets very nearby indicates that this was not true. They argued that such bombardment would not slow down the murder operation and would divert forces from decisive battles and endanger the airmen. The only way to rescue Jews, they said, was by winning the war. Their main arguments, then, were "rescue through victory" and "no diversion from the war effort." Whether a bombing mission to the extermination camp would have succeeded or failed is an open question. However, it is clear that the Allies did not marshal the same energy and determination to rescue the Jews as the Nazis did to murder them.
<strong>We don't want to be a minority living under the grace of other people again ( like so many times in our History) is it sooo much to ask for?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Again? It's happening at the moment. The US funds Israel to the tune of $3 billion a year.
<strong>
Again? It's happening at the moment. The US funds Israel to the tune of $3 billion a year.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's soooo simplistic ... the US gets plenty in return .. this money does not make the US control Israel it gives the US lots of influence but Israel is still very independent despite this money .. its an alliance between countries not a situation where Jews are living under the thumbs of others .
If Jews were to become a part of the US as this thread suggests they would be completely under the thumb of whatever administration would be there ... what if at some stage in the future some anti Semitic president took over ... seems fictional but who knows....
The basic fact that the US is even ready for the first time in its history to support the Jews is due to the fact that Israel exists and American interests dictate that Israel be supported. Its a fact that before Israel existed America had very little interest in helping or supporting anything Jewish. ( as noted above they didn't even bother bombing concentration camps to slow the Nazi genocide )
Again, this serves to prove the necessity of Israel for the survival of the Jewish nation.
And beyond all that don't forget ( you seem to have forgotten...) that until 67 US support for Israel was minimal and Israel still managed to survive and even thrive and win its most decisive victory in 67. It's only once Israel has proven its worth in the battlefield that the US started realizing the potential in an alliance with it.
Israel will survive with or without US support !
[ 05-21-2002: Message edited by: rashumon ]</p>
<strong>Why not move them to Europe? Oh wait? What was I thinking? Sorry Jews. Please come the US.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don´t think you were thinking. You hardly ever do.
Hang on, make that almost never.