New Mac Pro - Geekbench - used MPs?
I'd be interested in hearing comments on the new Geekbench graphs that show the latest Mac Pro mid-2010 2.8 ghz model just incrementally faster than the early 2009 Mac Pro 2.87.
http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/mac-benchmarks/
Am I reading this wrong? I was under the impression that the new Mac Pro would be significantly faster! (considering the $400 extra) The Geekbench results seem to show the 2010 MP is only a tiny bit faster than the 2009 MP... (overall score 8384 vs. 8243). I also see the Mac Pro mid-2010 2.8 ghz is slower than the latest 27" 4-core iMac.
Anyhow, I'm needing a new Mac Pro and am equally confused about used Mac Pro pricing. It almost seems like some 3 year old models sell for about 90% of the price of a new model. I've been studying ebay and trying to figure out the mind-roasting complexity of figuring out the MP models, but it sure is a challenge.
I can't figure out how there are multiple MP 2.66 dual-core models from 2007 - 2010. Sometimes a model is number associated with each 2.66 dual-core processor... but it's not always easy to find. I see that ebay seems to make it very hard to figure out which model year of MP 2.66 dual-core it is. I also take it that ebay MP machines that come loaded with CS5 don't offer any support.
Is there any speed advantage to the 2010 MP in 64 bit processing for Adobe CS5? I do lots of gigantic photoshop and indesign files, and usually have to wait an average of 30 seconds to open a file on my current ancient Powermac.
So any comments or insights would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.primatelabs.ca/geekbench/mac-benchmarks/
Am I reading this wrong? I was under the impression that the new Mac Pro would be significantly faster! (considering the $400 extra) The Geekbench results seem to show the 2010 MP is only a tiny bit faster than the 2009 MP... (overall score 8384 vs. 8243). I also see the Mac Pro mid-2010 2.8 ghz is slower than the latest 27" 4-core iMac.
Anyhow, I'm needing a new Mac Pro and am equally confused about used Mac Pro pricing. It almost seems like some 3 year old models sell for about 90% of the price of a new model. I've been studying ebay and trying to figure out the mind-roasting complexity of figuring out the MP models, but it sure is a challenge.
I can't figure out how there are multiple MP 2.66 dual-core models from 2007 - 2010. Sometimes a model is number associated with each 2.66 dual-core processor... but it's not always easy to find. I see that ebay seems to make it very hard to figure out which model year of MP 2.66 dual-core it is. I also take it that ebay MP machines that come loaded with CS5 don't offer any support.
Is there any speed advantage to the 2010 MP in 64 bit processing for Adobe CS5? I do lots of gigantic photoshop and indesign files, and usually have to wait an average of 30 seconds to open a file on my current ancient Powermac.
So any comments or insights would be greatly appreciated.
Comments
I was under the impression that the new Mac Pro would be significantly faster! (considering the $400 extra)
I'm pretty sure the new ones are the same entry price. They bumped the entry price up on the 2009 model - the UK model used to start at £1495 but now starts at £1999. But still, these models don't make a huge jump in performance relative to price. You basically get a slightly higher clock speed on the entry point and just more cores beyond that. This is Intel's fault though because they haven't lowered the chip prices.
Anyhow, I'm needing a new Mac Pro and am equally confused about used Mac Pro pricing. It almost seems like some 3 year old models sell for about 90% of the price of a new model. I've been studying ebay and trying to figure out the mind-roasting complexity of figuring out the MP models, but it sure is a challenge.
You can go by the model numbers of the CPUs and also the fact that the original quads were two dual-core processors. The originals had the 7300GT GPU too. The newer ones have the GT120. The originals had 667MHz RAM too not 1066MHz. The newer ones are called Nehalem.
I also take it that ebay MP machines that come loaded with CS5 don't offer any support.
You can probably also take it that it's not a legitimate version. It's as easy as downloading CS5 from Adobe and blocking the verification connection to their servers. If you are operating as a business you should have a license so regardless of whether it comes installed, you won't own the license for it.
Is there any speed advantage to the 2010 MP in 64 bit processing for Adobe CS5? I do lots of gigantic photoshop and indesign files, and usually have to wait an average of 30 seconds to open a file on my current ancient Powermac.
What you should invest in if you want fast loading times is fast storage. No matter how fast the processors are and how much RAM you have, if you try to open a 3GB Indesign or PS file from a hard drive that reads at 80MB/s, it will take over 30 seconds. If you buy a Mac Pro with 4 drives in RAID-0 at 80MB/s, the file will load in 9 seconds. You just have to make sure you backup very often but you should be doing that anyway.
SSD is an option too but you'd need 2 x 160GB in RAID-0 at least, although you might get away with 2 x 80GB and a large backup/archive HDD. You could also buy an external RAID system. I'd still recommend upgrading to an Intel machine though. CS5 is a good deal faster than previous versions.
There is a Nehalem Mac Pro here for $1850 or best offer:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Mac-Pro-Nehalem-...#ht_500wt_1154
price up a RAM upgrade, buying 4 x high end HDDs or a couple of SSDs with a backup drive and take that off the price to make an offer. Weigh up the shipping cost too. The seller doesn't have a lot feedback though.
You're actually better getting a quad core Nehalem than an 8-core original btw.
If you search eBay for the following:
"mac pro -7300 -macbook -hack -imac"
check the box for include title and description, set the price at $1500-2400 and Buy It Now, then pick the category Apple desktops, you should get all the newer Mac Pros on eBay. There was only about 25 to choose from when I searched. Obviously increase the price range if you want to go higher but like I say, in your situation, I'd recommend getting the lower model and investing in fast storage.
I'm pretty sure the new ones are the same entry price. They bumped the entry price up on the 2009 model - the UK model used to start at £1495 but now starts at £1999. But still, these models don't make a huge jump in performance relative to price. You basically get a slightly higher clock speed on the entry point and just more cores beyond that. This is Intel's fault though because they haven't lowered the chip prices.
Thanks for the detailed information... much appreciated! The subtleties about each chip when they all seem so similar are now clarified.
It's interesting after all the hyperbole I read about the new chip that the 2010 model really isn't any faster. I thought Moore's law dictated that it ought to be twice as fast and cost half as much!
It's interesting after all the hyperbole I read about the new chip that the 2010 model really isn't any faster. I thought Moore's law dictated that it ought to be twice as fast and cost half as much!
They are generally expected to double in performance every 18-24 months. It shouldn't really be called a law but a rule.
Intel have a tick-tock cycle roughly a year for each where they make a new architecture in one phase and then shrink it down in another. Then they make a new architecture at the new fabrication level, essentially it's all about putting in more transistors every cycle, sometimes putting two cores where there was one, which counts as doubling performance.
When Sandy Bridge comes next year, you should see roughly double the performance relative to similarly priced machines two years ago, although in the case of the Mac Pro, it might draw out a bit further as those chips won't arrive until Q3/Q4 2011.
In some ways that's good as it won't matter if you buy now because you know that nothing better is coming for over 12 months.
On the issue of storage, I'd hold of on an SSD purchase for now too. There is a new fab for that stuff in early 2011, which could see double the storage for the same price. This should mean the 80GB drives come down too so if you put 4 Intel x25s in RAID-0, you'd get about 500MB/s read speeds at an affordable price. OCZ drives are a bit faster and get 700MB/s in RAID-0:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_FfHOqAwyY
A 3GB file would open in 2-6 seconds on that system. Sometimes it will be faster due to the burst speed. It will also save those files pretty quickly. Right now the 80GB x25m goes for $200 so if it drops to $100 next year, you can get 320GB out of 4 x RAID-0 SSDs for $400.