IIRC from my computer science classes from years of yore, a computer is defined as a CPU + storage + input/output. If it's go those characteristics, it's a computer. Religious definitions not required.
Never mind all the other ways you can get content onto and off of an iPad without a computer being involved. I suppose the printing coming up in iOS 4.2 next month won't matter since the iPad is not a "computer"?
How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?
A computer is only needed to activate it. Something the Genius bar is happy to do for you before you leave the store. Or you could do it at a friends house (now if you don't have friends, I can see how that would be an issue - but even the friendless can find an Apple store).
So you either have to live in one of the centres that apple deems worthy of an apple store, bludge off friends, or dont get 4.2 upgrade?
i think one of apple's core strategies is being a "game changer"
this probably also applies to a a definition of what makes a profitable, or top company in the tech world.
when nokia was still focusing on unit shipments, apple quarterly results seem focused more on profit margin percentage per unit, as well as high selling price per unit.
the number of phones nokia and motorola sells still dwarf the iphones apple sell, but apple makes way more money per unit sold.
thus a graph depicting units sold will not show the entire picture of how things are shaping up.
on their part, apple also does not seem insistent on reporting iPad shipments as part of personal computer shipments.
perhaps this flying under the radar benefits apple because, instead of boasting it will be the no.1 in PC shipments in the future, it is amassing and adding billions in its war chest from PC, phones and iPads sold, regardless of which ranking it places in whichever categories its being put in.
Would be interesting to see a statistic excluding purchases businesses... just tally of the Home User market, i.e. those that have 'free will' in their purchasing decisions : ) Probably closer to 25% I'd guess if the boat loads of WinTel boxes ordered by biz's are excluded.
Your post is certainly idiotic. Let's examine your reading comphrehenion (or rather, lack thereof)...
The bottom line is there really isn't much in the way of electronics these days that isn't a "computer" in the broadest sense of the term, but to imply that any product that can technically do what the original 'PC' did 4 decades prior means it should automatically be added to these figures is absurd.
Sol, you were pretty quick to jump on him/her, don't you think? If you ask me, I think, in terms of sales analysis, any machine that is purchased to replace what would have been a "computer" purchase otherwise, could and should be included in that sales category. It's pretty clear that the majority of iPad users are replacing most of their traditional "computing time" with "iPad time". If there wasn't any such thing as an iPad I'm sure that other "computers" would have been bought ..... wouldn't you agree?
So you either have to live in one of the centres that apple deems worthy of an apple store, bludge off friends, or dont get 4.2 upgrade?
For the time being, sure. I didn't say it was convenient. Just that it's far from mandatory to own a computer in order to own or use an iPad.
There's been what, one iOS upgrade for the iPad so far? 4.2 will make the second? If there is one more before Apple supports iOS updates over the air I will be shocked....
EDIT: And the vast majority of their users are "worthy" of an Apple store within an hour or so of them. It's called placing where the population is. If you live in a rural area its, well, rural. If you have to drive two hours to get to a WallMart, why should you expect an Apple Store next door?
Curious about your source on this statistic? That's my guess including only home users able to make autonomous choices.
I wouldn't assume only home users get to make "autonomous choices". While many of my compatriots in corporate IT land don't want to acknowledge it, the consumerization of IT is very real. And often being driven from the top down.
Woe be any IT "professionals" who marginalize or dismiss the iPhone and iPad as something that can't happen in their environment, or as some undeserving "trend".
How soon people forget that the whole PC vs. mainframe/midrange coup of the 80's started with end users bringing in "home" or "personal" equipment, often counter to corporate policy. If users weren't pushing corporate IT, many organizations would still be on Windows 3.1 or Windows 2000. Do IT people really think blackberrys became popular because blackberry's were embraced by the IT "priesthood" and pre-emptively provided to end users? Early blackberries were hated by IT (and often for good reason, the early versions of the BES server was dreadful, the data network unreliable (to be fair no more unreliable than other cellular data networks at the time), and device management/activation was a pain. Desktop software that wasn't the friendliest towards automatic installation was required to backup the devices and change settings. As an email administrator, I hated blackberries and other mobile devices - an extreme PITA...
Seriously? People need to really look at history and how much of this stuff actually became entrenched in their environments. 8 times out of 10 it was due to user demand, not IT being proactive. Sure, there are some companies where IT drives innovation and change, but that is pretty flipping rare. Usually it's due to the company viewing IT as a cost center more than the IT guys being defensive and reactive vs. proactive - although there is plenty of that going around, especially when the subject of Apple comes up
That's why I find corporate adoption rates of the iPhone and iPad so fascinating. Apple faces a SEVERE anti-Apple bias with most "IT Professionals". With iOS 4, within the next six months things should get really interesting as projects that are now in testing reach wide deployment. I can't wait for my company issued iPhone
It's hardly mandatory to own a computer to use an iPad.
True, but you'd be smart to sync up with a computer for when your iPad is stolen, lost, or drowns in the rain. My iPhone 3GS failed (under warranty) after 11 months 2 weeks, but because I synced it every week, it was a ridiculously EASY & PAINLESS restore. I can be confident that if I ever needed to replace my iPad unexpectedly, I could get back to normal. Apple has made it so simple, I'm amazed to hear people not wanting to sync up their iPad with a computer, or calling it unnecessary. Those people are braver than I am.
P.S., I hope for a new MacBook Air, new Xserves, and a better FCP, but one can dream!
True, but you'd be smart to sync up with a computer for when your iPad is stolen, lost, or drowns in the rain. My iPhone 3GS failed (under warranty) after 11 months 2 weeks, but because I synced it every week, it was a ridiculously EASY & PAINLESS restore. I can be confident that if I ever needed to replace my iPad unexpectedly, I could get back to normal. Apple has made it so simple, I'm amazed to hear people not wanting to sync up their iPad with a computer, or calling it unnecessary. Those people are braver than I am.
P.S., I hope for a new MacBook Air, new Xserves, and a better FCP, but one can dream!
I can definitely see a reason why they don't give iOS users access to the file system. This is, really, a Good Thing™. For advanced users, just Jailbreak if you really want to poke around there.
Most people don't give a sh*t about syncing or backup. And then when they lose their phone, data, hard disk dies, whatever, they expect everything to have been magically saved "somewhere" when they run into problems.
(Me in blue)
"Hi, I think I accidentally deleted a file somewhere in Entourage,
and now all my mail folders are gone."
Ah, I see. Maybe you can restore it from a backup...
"I have an external hard disk"
Was it connected to your Mac?
"Umm... I think so."
Did you use Time Machine which I mentioned a few months back?
"Uh... What's that again?"
Maybe it's already connected and doing backups...
"Does it matter if it's not a Mac brand external hard disk?"
ARGHGHSOHDLKGDKHGLKH WTF ARHGHHSKHDLAKSHHGFHGHH
*shoots self in head*
Yeah... y'all know what I'm talking about. And I conduct some customer training, I'm not even in tech support, luckily!
I wouldn't assume only home users get to make "autonomous choices". While many of my compatriots in corporate IT land don't want to acknowledge it, the consumerization of IT is very real. And often being driven from the top down.
Woe be any IT "professionals" who marginalize or dismiss the iPhone and iPad as something that can't happen in their environment, or as some undeserving "trend".
How soon people forget that the whole PC vs. mainframe/midrange coup of the 80's started with end users bringing in "home" or "personal" equipment, often counter to corporate policy. If users weren't pushing corporate IT, many organizations would still be on Windows 3.1 or Windows 2000. Do IT people really think blackberrys became popular because blackberry's were embraced by the IT "priesthood" and pre-emptively provided to end users? Early blackberries were hated by IT (and often for good reason, the early versions of the BES server was dreadful, the data network unreliable (to be fair no more unreliable than other cellular data networks at the time), and device management/activation was a pain. Desktop software that wasn't the friendliest towards automatic installation was required to backup the devices and change settings. As an email administrator, I hated blackberries and other mobile devices - an extreme PITA...
Seriously? People need to really look at history and how much of this stuff actually became entrenched in their environments. 8 times out of 10 it was due to user demand, not IT being proactive. Sure, there are some companies where IT drives innovation and change, but that is pretty flipping rare. Usually it's due to the company viewing IT as a cost center more than the IT guys being defensive and reactive vs. proactive - although there is plenty of that going around, especially when the subject of Apple comes up
That's why I find corporate adoption rates of the iPhone and iPad so fascinating. Apple faces a SEVERE anti-Apple bias with most "IT Professionals". With iOS 4, within the next six months things should get really interesting as projects that are now in testing reach wide deployment. I can't wait for my company issued iPhone
+1 Thank you.
Yesterday I was at one of our retail outlets talking to the store manager. I said, "Hmm, the wireless is quite bad here". Manager says "But the IT guy from headquarters told me they installed a new router, and everything is better". Me: "Dude, that's not a new router, unless they're shipping them nowadays with dirt, scuff and burn marks".
Another interesting (and understandable) case: "Head of desktop support" or something like that of a fairly large Oil and Gas company calls up, asking if we do training for IT support of Macs. I ask, well, what seems to be the need? He tells me, "Well, all the VIPs have Macs and iPads, and you know, when we have to support it, if things don't go well, it doesn't look too good...".
As you can see, the company executives are all having a blast getting themselves (or in some cases being "gifted" (pretty much "bribed")) with Macs, iPhones, iPads and so on, while letting the rank-and-file toil under crappy Windows boxes and cheap laptops...
You can request that Apple activate it in the Apple Store for you. Once activated, it doesn't need a computer.
Well, yes, but it certainly benefits from having a computer associated with it. A simple example would apply to someone with a CD collection. You could buy the tracks from iTMS but it is nice to be able to rip CD's and DVD's that you already own. Air Video Server is one of the best apps for providing media to the iPad and it requires a server on a Mac or PC. You want to read PDF's in iBooks? A Mac running iTunes can be more than convenient. Find a web site that won't work in Safari on the iPad or Mac? Try Firefox on the Mac for possible relief.
All that and more plus two very significant factors. Backups and upgrading to new system software. If you get an iPad now and don't have a computer, you will face some frustrations. Of course there are things like software development which just isn't going to happen on the iPad any time soon. I am a fan of the iPad and in reality all the iOS devices are computers but they are focused quite specifically and need to have a Mac or PC available.
But that is not what the word barrier mens. I\\'ve never been to Spain, but it is no barrier.
1
a : something material that blocks or is intended to block passage <highway barriers> <a barrier contraceptive>
b : a natural formation or structure that prevents or hinders movement or action <geographic barriers to species dissemination> <barrier beaches> <drugs that cross the placental barrier>
2
plural often capitalized : a medieval war game in which combatants fight on foot with a fence or railing between them
3
: something immaterial that impedes or separates : obstacle <behavioral barriers> <trade barriers>
Examples of BARRIER
Concrete barriers surround the race track to protect spectators.
The tree\\'s roots serve as a barrier against soil erosion.
The mountain range forms a natural barrier between the two countries.
Both leaders are in favor of removing trade barriers.
Cultural barriers have made it hard for women to enter many professions.
He argues that regulations should not be viewed as barriers to progress.
Yawn. the word in colloquial sense is often used to mean a milestone.
it's nonsense to not include the iPad in the totals. Saying the iPad isn't a computer because you need another computer to do certain functions is kind of like saying the MacBook Air isn't a computer because as shipped you need a computer to install a new release of the OS off of a CD.
And how do you install new releases of the OS on the many netbooks that ship without a CD drive? Are those computers?
That's really the distinction some are trying to make in this thread, that you can't install a new release of the OS without access to a computer somewhere. You certainly don't need another computer to use an iPad.
iOS 4.2 brings multitasking and printing in a few weeks. If there were any real objections to calling the iPad a computer, those should be eliminated with that update.
If Acer's market share includes the sale of netbooks, Apple's market share numbers should include the sale of iPads.
How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?
how do you get windows 7 onto a netbook that doesn't have a CD drive? Those are still counted in sales of computers and are typically used by people who have another computer in their house or business.
How do you get a new OS release onto a MacBook Air? Those are still counted in sales of computers.
Comments
Never mind all the other ways you can get content onto and off of an iPad without a computer being involved. I suppose the printing coming up in iOS 4.2 next month won't matter since the iPad is not a "computer"?
How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?
A computer is only needed to activate it. Something the Genius bar is happy to do for you before you leave the store. Or you could do it at a friends house (now if you don't have friends, I can see how that would be an issue - but even the friendless can find an Apple store).
So you either have to live in one of the centres that apple deems worthy of an apple store, bludge off friends, or dont get 4.2 upgrade?
this probably also applies to a a definition of what makes a profitable, or top company in the tech world.
when nokia was still focusing on unit shipments, apple quarterly results seem focused more on profit margin percentage per unit, as well as high selling price per unit.
the number of phones nokia and motorola sells still dwarf the iphones apple sell, but apple makes way more money per unit sold.
thus a graph depicting units sold will not show the entire picture of how things are shaping up.
on their part, apple also does not seem insistent on reporting iPad shipments as part of personal computer shipments.
perhaps this flying under the radar benefits apple because, instead of boasting it will be the no.1 in PC shipments in the future, it is amassing and adding billions in its war chest from PC, phones and iPads sold, regardless of which ranking it places in whichever categories its being put in.
Your post is certainly idiotic. Let's examine your reading comphrehenion (or rather, lack thereof)...
The bottom line is there really isn't much in the way of electronics these days that isn't a "computer" in the broadest sense of the term, but to imply that any product that can technically do what the original 'PC' did 4 decades prior means it should automatically be added to these figures is absurd.
Sol, you were pretty quick to jump on him/her, don't you think? If you ask me, I think, in terms of sales analysis, any machine that is purchased to replace what would have been a "computer" purchase otherwise, could and should be included in that sales category. It's pretty clear that the majority of iPad users are replacing most of their traditional "computing time" with "iPad time". If there wasn't any such thing as an iPad I'm sure that other "computers" would have been bought ..... wouldn't you agree?
Roughly one in four purchases of a personal computer for home use are Macs.
Curious about your source on this statistic? That's my guess including only home users able to make autonomous choices.
How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?
Genius bar? Friends?
It's hardly mandatory to own a computer to use an iPad.
OMG! Barrier-gate!
Too funny!
So you either have to live in one of the centres that apple deems worthy of an apple store, bludge off friends, or dont get 4.2 upgrade?
For the time being, sure. I didn't say it was convenient. Just that it's far from mandatory to own a computer in order to own or use an iPad.
There's been what, one iOS upgrade for the iPad so far? 4.2 will make the second? If there is one more before Apple supports iOS updates over the air I will be shocked....
EDIT: And the vast majority of their users are "worthy" of an Apple store within an hour or so of them. It's called placing where the population is. If you live in a rural area its, well, rural. If you have to drive two hours to get to a WallMart, why should you expect an Apple Store next door?
Curious about your source on this statistic? That's my guess including only home users able to make autonomous choices.
I wouldn't assume only home users get to make "autonomous choices". While many of my compatriots in corporate IT land don't want to acknowledge it, the consumerization of IT is very real. And often being driven from the top down.
Woe be any IT "professionals" who marginalize or dismiss the iPhone and iPad as something that can't happen in their environment, or as some undeserving "trend".
How soon people forget that the whole PC vs. mainframe/midrange coup of the 80's started with end users bringing in "home" or "personal" equipment, often counter to corporate policy. If users weren't pushing corporate IT, many organizations would still be on Windows 3.1 or Windows 2000. Do IT people really think blackberrys became popular because blackberry's were embraced by the IT "priesthood" and pre-emptively provided to end users? Early blackberries were hated by IT (and often for good reason, the early versions of the BES server was dreadful, the data network unreliable (to be fair no more unreliable than other cellular data networks at the time), and device management/activation was a pain. Desktop software that wasn't the friendliest towards automatic installation was required to backup the devices and change settings. As an email administrator, I hated blackberries and other mobile devices - an extreme PITA...
Seriously? People need to really look at history and how much of this stuff actually became entrenched in their environments. 8 times out of 10 it was due to user demand, not IT being proactive. Sure, there are some companies where IT drives innovation and change, but that is pretty flipping rare. Usually it's due to the company viewing IT as a cost center more than the IT guys being defensive and reactive vs. proactive - although there is plenty of that going around, especially when the subject of Apple comes up
That's why I find corporate adoption rates of the iPhone and iPad so fascinating. Apple faces a SEVERE anti-Apple bias with most "IT Professionals". With iOS 4, within the next six months things should get really interesting as projects that are now in testing reach wide deployment. I can't wait for my company issued iPhone
Maybe that's because the Apple iPad is a computer peripheral NOT a stand-alone computing device.
Note: One must use an actual computer to even get the iPad up and running... Very Telling
Hey you're back...!
Genius bar? Friends?
It's hardly mandatory to own a computer to use an iPad.
True, but you'd be smart to sync up with a computer for when your iPad is stolen, lost, or drowns in the rain. My iPhone 3GS failed (under warranty) after 11 months 2 weeks, but because I synced it every week, it was a ridiculously EASY & PAINLESS restore. I can be confident that if I ever needed to replace my iPad unexpectedly, I could get back to normal. Apple has made it so simple, I'm amazed to hear people not wanting to sync up their iPad with a computer, or calling it unnecessary. Those people are braver than I am.
P.S., I hope for a new MacBook Air, new Xserves, and a better FCP, but one can dream!
True, but you'd be smart to sync up with a computer for when your iPad is stolen, lost, or drowns in the rain. My iPhone 3GS failed (under warranty) after 11 months 2 weeks, but because I synced it every week, it was a ridiculously EASY & PAINLESS restore. I can be confident that if I ever needed to replace my iPad unexpectedly, I could get back to normal. Apple has made it so simple, I'm amazed to hear people not wanting to sync up their iPad with a computer, or calling it unnecessary. Those people are braver than I am.
P.S., I hope for a new MacBook Air, new Xserves, and a better FCP, but one can dream!
I can definitely see a reason why they don't give iOS users access to the file system. This is, really, a Good Thing™. For advanced users, just Jailbreak if you really want to poke around there.
Most people don't give a sh*t about syncing or backup. And then when they lose their phone, data, hard disk dies, whatever, they expect everything to have been magically saved "somewhere" when they run into problems.
(Me in blue)
"Hi, I think I accidentally deleted a file somewhere in Entourage,
and now all my mail folders are gone."
Ah, I see. Maybe you can restore it from a backup...
"I have an external hard disk"
Was it connected to your Mac?
"Umm... I think so."
Did you use Time Machine which I mentioned a few months back?
"Uh... What's that again?"
Maybe it's already connected and doing backups...
"Does it matter if it's not a Mac brand external hard disk?"
ARGHGHSOHDLKGDKHGLKH WTF ARHGHHSKHDLAKSHHGFHGHH
*shoots self in head*
Yeah... y'all know what I'm talking about. And I conduct some customer training, I'm not even in tech support, luckily!
I wouldn't assume only home users get to make "autonomous choices". While many of my compatriots in corporate IT land don't want to acknowledge it, the consumerization of IT is very real. And often being driven from the top down.
Woe be any IT "professionals" who marginalize or dismiss the iPhone and iPad as something that can't happen in their environment, or as some undeserving "trend".
How soon people forget that the whole PC vs. mainframe/midrange coup of the 80's started with end users bringing in "home" or "personal" equipment, often counter to corporate policy. If users weren't pushing corporate IT, many organizations would still be on Windows 3.1 or Windows 2000. Do IT people really think blackberrys became popular because blackberry's were embraced by the IT "priesthood" and pre-emptively provided to end users? Early blackberries were hated by IT (and often for good reason, the early versions of the BES server was dreadful, the data network unreliable (to be fair no more unreliable than other cellular data networks at the time), and device management/activation was a pain. Desktop software that wasn't the friendliest towards automatic installation was required to backup the devices and change settings. As an email administrator, I hated blackberries and other mobile devices - an extreme PITA...
Seriously? People need to really look at history and how much of this stuff actually became entrenched in their environments. 8 times out of 10 it was due to user demand, not IT being proactive. Sure, there are some companies where IT drives innovation and change, but that is pretty flipping rare. Usually it's due to the company viewing IT as a cost center more than the IT guys being defensive and reactive vs. proactive - although there is plenty of that going around, especially when the subject of Apple comes up
That's why I find corporate adoption rates of the iPhone and iPad so fascinating. Apple faces a SEVERE anti-Apple bias with most "IT Professionals". With iOS 4, within the next six months things should get really interesting as projects that are now in testing reach wide deployment. I can't wait for my company issued iPhone
+1 Thank you.
Yesterday I was at one of our retail outlets talking to the store manager. I said, "Hmm, the wireless is quite bad here". Manager says "But the IT guy from headquarters told me they installed a new router, and everything is better". Me: "Dude, that's not a new router, unless they're shipping them nowadays with dirt, scuff and burn marks".
Another interesting (and understandable) case: "Head of desktop support" or something like that of a fairly large Oil and Gas company calls up, asking if we do training for IT support of Macs. I ask, well, what seems to be the need? He tells me, "Well, all the VIPs have Macs and iPads, and you know, when we have to support it, if things don't go well, it doesn't look too good...".
As you can see, the company executives are all having a blast getting themselves (or in some cases being "gifted" (pretty much "bribed")) with Macs, iPhones, iPads and so on, while letting the rank-and-file toil under crappy Windows boxes and cheap laptops...
You can request that Apple activate it in the Apple Store for you. Once activated, it doesn't need a computer.
Well, yes, but it certainly benefits from having a computer associated with it. A simple example would apply to someone with a CD collection. You could buy the tracks from iTMS but it is nice to be able to rip CD's and DVD's that you already own. Air Video Server is one of the best apps for providing media to the iPad and it requires a server on a Mac or PC. You want to read PDF's in iBooks? A Mac running iTunes can be more than convenient. Find a web site that won't work in Safari on the iPad or Mac? Try Firefox on the Mac for possible relief.
All that and more plus two very significant factors. Backups and upgrading to new system software. If you get an iPad now and don't have a computer, you will face some frustrations. Of course there are things like software development which just isn't going to happen on the iPad any time soon. I am a fan of the iPad and in reality all the iOS devices are computers but they are focused quite specifically and need to have a Mac or PC available.
But that is not what the word barrier mens. I\\'ve never been to Spain, but it is no barrier.
1
a : something material that blocks or is intended to block passage <highway barriers> <a barrier contraceptive>
b : a natural formation or structure that prevents or hinders movement or action <geographic barriers to species dissemination> <barrier beaches> <drugs that cross the placental barrier>
2
plural often capitalized : a medieval war game in which combatants fight on foot with a fence or railing between them
3
: something immaterial that impedes or separates : obstacle <behavioral barriers> <trade barriers>
Examples of BARRIER
Concrete barriers surround the race track to protect spectators.
The tree\\'s roots serve as a barrier against soil erosion.
The mountain range forms a natural barrier between the two countries.
Both leaders are in favor of removing trade barriers.
Cultural barriers have made it hard for women to enter many professions.
He argues that regulations should not be viewed as barriers to progress.
Yawn. the word in colloquial sense is often used to mean a milestone.
And how do you install new releases of the OS on the many netbooks that ship without a CD drive? Are those computers?
That's really the distinction some are trying to make in this thread, that you can't install a new release of the OS without access to a computer somewhere. You certainly don't need another computer to use an iPad.
iOS 4.2 brings multitasking and printing in a few weeks. If there were any real objections to calling the iPad a computer, those should be eliminated with that update.
If Acer's market share includes the sale of netbooks, Apple's market share numbers should include the sale of iPads.
How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?
If you don't have a computer, you don't have a printer. Problem solved :LOL:
How will you get 4.2 onto the ipad to use printing if you dont have a computer?
how do you get windows 7 onto a netbook that doesn't have a CD drive? Those are still counted in sales of computers and are typically used by people who have another computer in their house or business.
How do you get a new OS release onto a MacBook Air? Those are still counted in sales of computers.