Yankees vs. Mets (okay...Clemens vs. Piazza) on Saturday...
Okay, you AppleInsiders based in New York and who are into baseball (I guess I'm pretty much talking to applenut here), what's the vibe like there?
Anyone going to the game?
Better yet, is it going to be broadcast nationally so I can watch it way the hell out here? That's going to be something to see.
I think Estes is going to hit Clemens, and all hell is going to break loose. This will probably be a game full of scuffles, ejections and dust-ups.
Anyone going to the game?
Better yet, is it going to be broadcast nationally so I can watch it way the hell out here? That's going to be something to see.
I think Estes is going to hit Clemens, and all hell is going to break loose. This will probably be a game full of scuffles, ejections and dust-ups.
Comments
Of course I want him to wake up the next day and fully recover, have a great rest of the season, yadda yadda yadda. Let him throw back to back perfect games when he gets off the DL, I don't care. I just want this one little bad thing to happen.
Thanks god, I appreciate it.
Bring on the flames!!
<strong>This is another reason why I hate the DH. Pitchers like Clemens and Pedro aren't averse to brushing back batters. I'm okay with this to a point. But it does add another dimension when these guys have to dig in against the opposing pitcher. Brushback the other team if you feel they're crowding the plate. But know that the other guy is going to keep you honest. That's the way it should be.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm against the DH as well but the reason you provide is nearly bullshit. It's not like they can go out there and throw at anyone and have no fear. it almost always results in one of their teammates being hit. while it isn't the pitcher himself getting hit they definitely don't want their teammates to get hit.
It is ridiculous anymore. If a batter gets hit it is almost always assumed intentional now. Any inside pitch near the chin is considered poor sportsmanship.
it is a part of the game. and that part is being taken away. You want to know why there are guys getting 70+ homeruns a year? Sure the drugs and weight lifting help but so does the fact that Barry Bonds is allowed to wear a suit of armor up to plate and stand right on top of homeplate knowing that 1.) if he gets hit it won't hurt and 2.) the pitcher will likely get warned and/or ejected.
There is no room for brushbacks in baseball anymore and pitchers don't seem to be able to make mistakes anymore. You may think because they get payed millions that their pitches don't tail or simply don't go where they ant. they do.
This Clemens v Piazza situation is out of hand. I don't know if Clemens hit him on purpose that time 2 years ago. It hit em in the head though. I don't Clemens would go for a headshot. I honestly don't. I'm sure he meant to throw it to brush him back. But many forget that the next inning the Mets put one right between the numbers oif Tino Martinez. You would think that would be enough. But no, they need some sort of sick revenge as if seeing Clemens in the dirt in agony is their only salvation.
It's crap like this that ruins sports. It's the oly focus of this weekend instead of what it should be, a great weekend of NYC baseball.
Your use of Pedro for brushbacks and headhunting is probably not apt. I don't think Pedro uses the inside pitch anymore now than he did when he WAS IN THE NATIONAL LEAGUE, and of course, had to hit.
I suspect the best way to decide if he's upped his headhunting would be to compare HBP's per inning, but I can't find a place (Baseball-reference.com or Baseballalmanac.com) that collects that stat.
I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader. Regardless, I for one, like the DH as I don't have to watch guys like Willie Banks hit. As an aside, it might be a real hoot to watch Rich "I love Ho-Ho's" Garces hit. Once.
I hope Clemens gives up 80 earned runs.
Thoth
as long as noone gets hurt, its all in good fun right? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
as much as we all want to see something happen, i doubt anything will--it would just be bad for baseball...
2) It is with Clemens because he has built up a reputation.
3) It's not ridiculous to assume Clemens isn't afraid to hit batters because he isn't a batter himself. He cares about his own body more than anybody elses.
4) He just hit Bonds the other night, intentionally. He said he would hit him right in the elbow in an interview a few days before. That is precisely where he hit him.
BTW, I just got back from Shea Stadium. I'm glad if anyone had to beat us it was Robin Ventura.
If you look at the minors all the way down to the independent leagues, they overwhelmingly support the DH versus having pitchers hit.
I'm not supporting the DH, but pitchers don't want to hit. They have the most to lose when they're up at the plate and they generally aren't very good at the plate either.
As for the New York series this weekend, it's every Boston fans dream for the following scenario:
Yankees do well in the first- they have enough base runners to allow Clemens to bat in the second. Also in the first, Clemens is in normal meathead mode and hits Piazza, trying to get ejected. He isn't. Clemens comes up to bat in the second and gets hit. Clemens tries to charge the mound- the benches empty. A huge brawl breaks out with casualties on each side. Ahh the dream scenario.
<strong>I have a feeling Estes will end up hitting Clemens. Just a light little hit, just to hit him and shut up us Mets fans. This whole thing between Piazza and Clemens is so out of hand now.
BTW, I just got back from Shea Stadium. I'm glad if anyone had to beat us it was Robin Ventura.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, Estes missed.... hehe kinda funny actually....
then the next inning estes with ordonez? (i think) on second--bunts, if clemens had the option to go up and in, it would have been the best pitch in the situation.... but of course, since both benches had been warned, it wasnt allowed...
estes lays down a good bunt, and ray scores.... on clemens' mental error due to the extra tension in this series...
well @ least it worked out for the mets... maybe this will be the end of it
<strong>
Well, Estes missed.... hehe kinda funny actually....
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<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> Yeah, that was funny.
<strong>OK, estes drove in all 3 runs in this game (so far).... :eek: hats off to him...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Weird, huh? Well no one else has been able to hit on the team so any way the Mets get runs is good.
With Clemens on second base after hitting his double, you "try" to pick him off, but accidentally throw at his head as hard as you can. Hit him in the head, gut, etc, that's great. If you miss and the ball goes into the outfield? Even better. No way that fat bastard will make it home. With the center fielder playing so deep, he'll almost HAVE to try to get home, or he's giving up on his teammates. He'll either pull a hamstring running, or you get a nice Clemens vs. Piazza collision at homeplate that Piazza knows is coming so he can get ready for it...
Damn I wish Bobby had thought of that.
<strong>I heard a guy on a talk radio show this afternoon who had a great idea.
With Clemens on second base after hitting his double, you "try" to pick him off, but accidentally throw at his head as hard as you can. Hit him in the head, gut, etc, that's great. If you miss and the ball goes into the outfield? Even better. No way that fat bastard will make it home. With the center fielder playing so deep, he'll almost HAVE to try to get home, or he's giving up on his teammates. He'll either pull a hamstring running, or you get a nice Clemens vs. Piazza collision at homeplate that Piazza knows is coming so he can get ready for it...
Damn I wish Bobby had thought of that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> that would've been great. Stupid Valentine for not thinking about that.
<strong>1) It's not always assumed intentional.
2) It is with Clemens because he has built up a reputation.
3) It's not ridiculous to assume Clemens isn't afraid to hit batters because he isn't a batter himself. He cares about his own body more than anybody elses.
4) He just hit Bonds the other night, intentionally. He said he would hit him right in the elbow in an interview a few days before. That is precisely where he hit him.</strong><hr></blockquote>
1.) more often than not
2.) it is always assumed with Clemens. yet there are pitchers with double the amount of HB than him and they get no attention
3.) yea, I'm usre he doesn't care whether his teammates get hit. I mean he only has to live with them for 9 months out of the year. I'm sure he would love having guys on his own team hate him.
4.) I would have drilled him to and if he did on purpose I respect that. Hitting Bonds intentionally is alright by me. If he wants to get up with his right side coated with protective gear and then hang over the plate he should expect to get drilled. as should anyone else.
True enough.
He's #2 on the Needs To Get Drilled list.
You're defending the wrong player here. It is inexcusable to hit batters willy-nilly like Clemens does, especially when he publicly admits it.
Last I heard elbow guards and closed stances were A-OK. Hitting a batter intentionally will usually get you ejected.
Besides, the guy walked him three times that game. Who's more of a wussy here? The guy who doesn't want to broken elbow or the guy who hits a guy intentionally and walks him two other times before being relieved?
[ 06-16-2002: Message edited by: Eugene ]</p>
<strong>
4.) I would have drilled him to and if he did on purpose I respect that. Hitting Bonds intentionally is alright by me. If he wants to get up with his right side coated with protective gear and then hang over the plate he should expect to get drilled. as should anyone else.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's ridiculous. A guy bats a certain way and doesn't want to get injured so he deserves to get hit? What's up with that?
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
You're right. In the time that players have started wearing all this protective gear on their pitcher facing side baseball has gotten SO much better. you're absolutely right. it's great that pitchers have no outside corner any more and it's also great that the batters don't have to fear getting hit taking that outside corner away as well.
you're absolutely right and I enjoy seeing 70+ homeruns a year by a guy who does that. It's absolutely wonderful.
While we're at it, they should just legalize steroids. Make it real interesting.
[quote]
Last I heard elbow guards and closed stances were A-OK. Hitting a batter intentionally will usually get you ejected.[/.quote]
never used to. But Major League Baseball enjoys lame fans who like to see slugfests
[quote]
Besides, the guy walked him three times that game. Who's more of a wussy here? The guy who doesn't want to broken elbow or the guy who hits a guy intentionally and walks him two other times before being relieved?<hr></blockquote>
I believe it is called wanting to win. Of course you're going to pitch around Bonds.. Look who is up after him.
Get a clue.
[quote]That's ridiculous. A guy bats a certain way and doesn't want to get injured so he deserves to get hit? What's up with that?<hr></blockquote>
how the hell is that ridiculous. if he wants to bat that way why shouldn't he have to deal with the consequences. think a little because you're not making any sense
Bonds has had his closed stance since before he wore his elbow pad. Your argument is dead right there.
Several other batters with no protective gear have that same stance.
And yeah, Jeff Kent is usually good, but he's been sleeping all year, ever since his motorcycle accident fiasco...especially when it counts big (when Bonds and/or Aurilia and/or whoever the lead-off is of the day have made it on base.)
What consequences? Clemens should have been ejected right there in the 3rd inning. I can't believe he wasn't. Bottom-line, Barry Bonds isn't doing anything illegal by standing close to the plate. How absurd.