This makes Consumer Reports’ charts look detailed. At least they test for specific items.
There are just to many options within each of those companies to get an idea as to why one is better than another. For instance, HTC received “above average” for browsing the internet. How do we know how much better or worse the browsing is within different devices from that vendor or between the different vendors? Does this mean the browser on Android phones? Does this mean their WinMo-based phones? Do they make PCs?
Even if only took Apple and their relatively small product line this type of data is still pointless. Is the iPhone browser’s above average only compared to other smartphones or would this get measured against their PCs too where it would likely fall short for most people?
I honestly don’t get how this data could be useful to anyone.
It's simple math. Apple doesn't build a $300 netbook or $400 laptop. You get what you pay for and Apple can afford to focus on maintaining higher standards because their profit margin is far higher than the competition's.
It also helps that Apple has greater control over the software that their devices are running.
I have no problem paying a premium to stick with Apple. The only time I really questioned quality is recently when my Mini, less than two years old, starting acting up but it ended up that it wasn't the nearly new Mini that was the problem but rather a much older keyboard. There is an exception, however. I haven't had any luck with Apple mice. My Magic Mouse just quit less than two years in. My preceding wireless mouse, which is what I'm using now, still works except that the scroll ball on top of the device only scrolls in one direction and started doing that a few short months after I bought it. I'm thinking of adding a magic trackpad to see if that fares better. I don't need magic. I'd settle for having it just work for a long enough period to feel like I got my money's worth.
There is an exception, however. I haven't had any luck with Apple mice. My Magic Mouse just quit less than two years in. My preceding wireless mouse, which is what I'm using now, still works except that the scroll ball on top of the device only scrolls in one direction and started doing that a few short months after I bought it. I'm thinking of adding a magic trackpad to see if that fares better. I don't need magic. I'd settle for having it just work for a long enough period to feel like I got my money's worth.
I've had the same problem with Apple mice (mouses??). Seems to be a real problem with scroll wheels (the old old one button mouse used to go on forever). I'm currently using a really old MS scroll wheel mouse that I found in the trash... no problem for well over a year.
Given that Apple is now the de facto R&D Division for nearly the entire computer industry, their products better outshine the rabble and their cheap imitations.
I love how Windows apologists on other blogs go apoplectic over reports like this!
This makes Consumer Reports? charts look detailed. At least they test for specific items.
There are just to many options within each of those companies to get an idea as to why one is better than another. For instance, HTC received ?above average? for browsing the internet. How do we know how much better or worse the browsing is within different devices from that vendor or between the different vendors? Does this mean the browser on Android phones? Does this mean their WinMo-based phones? Do they make PCs?
Even if only took Apple and their relatively small product line this type of data is still pointless. Is the iPhone browser?s above average only compared to other smartphones or would this get measured against their PCs too where it would likely fall short for most people?
I honestly don?t get how this data could be useful to anyone.
Well, one of the problems with a lot of reviews, from CR and elsewhere, and ratings is that they incorporate a high level of faux precision. They break things down into lots of (arbitrary) categories, conduct purportedly objective (but often highly subjective) tests, and provide precisely detailed reviews that sometimes bear little relationship to reality. I actually think that for this type of survey, the level of detail provided is probably the most appropriate and honest possible. Otherwise, one is likely to be claiming to measure things that one really isn't.
That is Apple's genius. They make products that pretty much anybody can use. My toddler can touch an icon on my iPad and watch Spongebob. On a computer, not even my teenager can figure out how to play a video!
The iPad is perfect for my family.
I completely agree! My 16 month old watches movies on my wifes iPhone 4 and she can also unlock the phone when it is locked by dragging her finger across the screen. In another year or two, she will be getting a Ipad so she can watch her movies and play games.
Well, one of the problems with a lot of reviews, from CR and elsewhere, and ratings is that they incorporate a high level of faux precision. They break things down into lots of (arbitrary) categories, conduct purportedly objective (but often highly subjective) tests, and provide precisely detailed reviews that sometimes bear little relationship to reality. I actually think that for this type of survey, the level of detail provided is probably the most appropriate and honest possible. Otherwise, one is likely to be claiming to measure things that one really isn't.
I think they are both highly flawed and not worth the paper they aren?t printed on. I think the previous example about the Apple mouse is key to that. At least CR give some breakdown of each product, not just a generalization of the company?s product as a whole. To me, this is more useful for determining which company is worth investing in for future growth based on quality and by extension loyalty, and reinforces my personal feeling in the Apple products I use over the competition, but it doesn?t actually give me any real data. It?s just a pat on the back for those using Apple products.
I completely agree! My 16 month old watches movies on my wifes iPhone 4 and she can also unlock the phone when it is locked by dragging her finger across the screen. In another year or two, she will be getting a Ipad so she can watch her movies and play games.
You know there are studies around that say that exposing a child to more than one hour of tv a day can restrict their development?
Truthfully, why would I expect anything less from Apple. Their products are very reliable and when there is a problem, they usually resolve it QUICKLY. Their tech support is top notch and competent, something that I cannot say about the majority of tech companies around.
I think they are both highly flawed and not worth the paper they aren?t printed on. I think the previous example about the Apple mouse is key to that. At least CR give some breakdown of each product, not just a generalization of the company?s product as a whole. To me, this is more useful for determining which company is worth investing in for future growth based on quality and by extension loyalty, and reinforces my personal feeling in the Apple products I use over the competition, but it doesn?t actually give me any real data. It?s just a pat on the back for those using Apple products.
Or a slap in the face to other manufacturers. But, I think evaluating the companies overall serves a valid purpose, especially when talking about reliability and customer service, which is more of an overall thing to begin with. So, it has it's place alongside specific product reviews, it just means something else: what are the odds I'll have a good experience when buying a product from one of these companies?
Truthfully, why would I expect anything less from Apple. Their products are very reliable and when there is a problem, they usually resolve it QUICKLY. Their tech support is top notch and competent, something that I cannot say about the majority of tech companies around.
They do, which I think is a huge boon for their current Mac success. Being able to go into a store and support is reassuring, even if you don?t know how easy their shipment program is.
While waiting for my wife at dentist office, I was watching a movie on my ipad and kept having to blow dust off of the screen, when I found a spot that would not go away,,, aaarrghh,, a dead pixel I thought.
I made a appointment with the local apple store genius, long story short, 11 minutes after entering store I was walking out with a new ipad, no hassle, no questions, just excellent service.
BTW I was told it was a speck of dust behind the glass by genius, got home, plugged new unit into mac and about an hour later ipad was fully restored,, try that with a PC.
i think apple re-invented apple store from the just-a-show-case-and-sell store to a full-customer-oriented front office. yes, apple store is still selling and showing the latest what apple can offer. but what is more important is that apple moves its support/service into apple store where real users can come in to talk to apple tech guy, a.k.a genius, about their issues. doing this way is a good PR and makes customer feel better.
i think apple re-invented apple store from the just-a-show-case-and-sell store to a full-customer-oriented front office. yes, apple store is still selling and showing the latest what apple can offer. but what is more important is that apple moves its support/service into apple store where real users can come in to talk to apple tech guy, a.k.a genius, about their issues. doing this way is a good PR and makes customer feel better.
Agreed. Now they just need to keep building into more locations. I live in a city of about 400,000 people, which has a reputation for being relatively affluent, and our closest Apple store is 2-3 hours in any direction. I love my Apple products, but when my only feasible option for service and support is a phone call, it makes me a little bummed sometimes.
What the heck are people's experiences with HP and Dell? 10%, 15% unresolvable issues?
It's probably more than that - I suspect it's much more. I have been a frequent contributor to Apple's support website for over ten years, so I'm very familiar with the kinds of "issues" people have. Being a help forum, there are plenty of problems, but most of them are easily addressed. A truly "unsolvable" problem is nearly unheard of - the only one I can think of is Airtunes streaming dropouts (probably a wireless bandwidth limitation, which goes away upon upgrading to an 802.11n network).
Apple also has had its share of premature component failure - TC power supplies come to mind - but in most cases they've made people whole.
Contrast that with HP's support site, to which I also contribute. Many of those complaints simply have no resolution. In most cases the recommendation is the mysterious "reinstall Windows" after which the problem may go away for a while, but eventually crops up again for no apparent reason. Sometimes problems arise, go away, and then inexplicably arise again. HP or Dell can't help when they think it's a Windows problem, and Microsoft can't help when they think it's a hardware problem. Neither one does any good when a component manufacturer writes a buggy or incompatible driver. Problems like these are unsolvable on a practical level, since the permutations of hardware and software combinations is a very large number. Ill-informed consumers just put up with these inconveniences until they eventually give up, and go out to buy another PC since they appear cheaper than Apple plus they run Blu-Ray They run fine out of the box, but eventually a Microsoft or driver update gets installed and the fun repeats. People have simply become inured to the fact that PCs are crash-prone, unpredictable, inconvenient, and have a lifespan of two or three years.
Over the long term, considering support and replacement costs, Apple computers are less expensive, though the only justification I have for this claim is anecdotal.
Quote:
But really what are these other manufacturers doing? Have they kind of given up?
Heck, no. They sell you another computer and Microsoft collects its fifty bucks. That's not giving up - it's a business plan! Which, by the way, answers the following rhetorical question:
Quote:
Originally Posted by christopher126
When will other companies learn not to sell crappy products?
When consumers learn not to buy crappy products.
Quote:
Man PC support must be one entirely dysfunctional ecosystem where everyone from Microsoft to hardware makers to support staff all depend on everything being broken, but people just not having "any other choice".
It's beyond dysfunctional - it's the definition of insanity.
Choice exists between one's ears. You'd think it would be easy. But as someone once said, no one ever went broke betting on people's stupidity. In fact, many have become fabulously wealthy.
Over the long term, considering support and replacement costs, Apple computers are less expensive, though the only justification I have for this claim is anecdotal.
Actually, I have a little more than that: Apple has a trade-in program apparently run by PowerON in which you can get an Apple Gift Card for trading in a PC or Mac. Since I'm in the market for a couple of new computers I provided the data for my PowerBooks and PCs. The computers I would trade in consist of two G4 PowerBooks and two Intel HP laptops.
Result?
The Powerbooks were worth $102.69 and $71.19, respectively. They are seven and eight years old, respectively.
The HPs were both worth zero. They are only three years old.
Comments
There are just to many options within each of those companies to get an idea as to why one is better than another. For instance, HTC received “above average” for browsing the internet. How do we know how much better or worse the browsing is within different devices from that vendor or between the different vendors? Does this mean the browser on Android phones? Does this mean their WinMo-based phones? Do they make PCs?
Even if only took Apple and their relatively small product line this type of data is still pointless. Is the iPhone browser’s above average only compared to other smartphones or would this get measured against their PCs too where it would likely fall short for most people?
I honestly don’t get how this data could be useful to anyone.
It also helps that Apple has greater control over the software that their devices are running.
I have no problem paying a premium to stick with Apple. The only time I really questioned quality is recently when my Mini, less than two years old, starting acting up but it ended up that it wasn't the nearly new Mini that was the problem but rather a much older keyboard. There is an exception, however. I haven't had any luck with Apple mice. My Magic Mouse just quit less than two years in. My preceding wireless mouse, which is what I'm using now, still works except that the scroll ball on top of the device only scrolls in one direction and started doing that a few short months after I bought it. I'm thinking of adding a magic trackpad to see if that fares better. I don't need magic. I'd settle for having it just work for a long enough period to feel like I got my money's worth.
There is an exception, however. I haven't had any luck with Apple mice. My Magic Mouse just quit less than two years in. My preceding wireless mouse, which is what I'm using now, still works except that the scroll ball on top of the device only scrolls in one direction and started doing that a few short months after I bought it. I'm thinking of adding a magic trackpad to see if that fares better. I don't need magic. I'd settle for having it just work for a long enough period to feel like I got my money's worth.
I've had the same problem with Apple mice (mouses??). Seems to be a real problem with scroll wheels (the old old one button mouse used to go on forever). I'm currently using a really old MS scroll wheel mouse that I found in the trash... no problem for well over a year.
I love how Windows apologists on other blogs go apoplectic over reports like this!
This makes Consumer Reports? charts look detailed. At least they test for specific items.
There are just to many options within each of those companies to get an idea as to why one is better than another. For instance, HTC received ?above average? for browsing the internet. How do we know how much better or worse the browsing is within different devices from that vendor or between the different vendors? Does this mean the browser on Android phones? Does this mean their WinMo-based phones? Do they make PCs?
Even if only took Apple and their relatively small product line this type of data is still pointless. Is the iPhone browser?s above average only compared to other smartphones or would this get measured against their PCs too where it would likely fall short for most people?
I honestly don?t get how this data could be useful to anyone.
Well, one of the problems with a lot of reviews, from CR and elsewhere, and ratings is that they incorporate a high level of faux precision. They break things down into lots of (arbitrary) categories, conduct purportedly objective (but often highly subjective) tests, and provide precisely detailed reviews that sometimes bear little relationship to reality. I actually think that for this type of survey, the level of detail provided is probably the most appropriate and honest possible. Otherwise, one is likely to be claiming to measure things that one really isn't.
That is Apple's genius. They make products that pretty much anybody can use. My toddler can touch an icon on my iPad and watch Spongebob. On a computer, not even my teenager can figure out how to play a video!
The iPad is perfect for my family.
I completely agree! My 16 month old watches movies on my wifes iPhone 4 and she can also unlock the phone when it is locked by dragging her finger across the screen. In another year or two, she will be getting a Ipad so she can watch her movies and play games.
Well, one of the problems with a lot of reviews, from CR and elsewhere, and ratings is that they incorporate a high level of faux precision. They break things down into lots of (arbitrary) categories, conduct purportedly objective (but often highly subjective) tests, and provide precisely detailed reviews that sometimes bear little relationship to reality. I actually think that for this type of survey, the level of detail provided is probably the most appropriate and honest possible. Otherwise, one is likely to be claiming to measure things that one really isn't.
I think they are both highly flawed and not worth the paper they aren?t printed on. I think the previous example about the Apple mouse is key to that. At least CR give some breakdown of each product, not just a generalization of the company?s product as a whole. To me, this is more useful for determining which company is worth investing in for future growth based on quality and by extension loyalty, and reinforces my personal feeling in the Apple products I use over the competition, but it doesn?t actually give me any real data. It?s just a pat on the back for those using Apple products.
I completely agree! My 16 month old watches movies on my wifes iPhone 4 and she can also unlock the phone when it is locked by dragging her finger across the screen. In another year or two, she will be getting a Ipad so she can watch her movies and play games.
You know there are studies around that say that exposing a child to more than one hour of tv a day can restrict their development?
What the heck are people's experiences with HP and Dell? 10%, 15% unresolvable issues?
My question also. If you are going to say something like 'significantly lower' give us the number we are comparing it to
My question also. If you are going to say something like 'significantly lower' give us the number we are comparing it to
If you visit PCWorld website and read the actual article you will see that it says it is averaged at 21% for PC.
I think they are both highly flawed and not worth the paper they aren?t printed on. I think the previous example about the Apple mouse is key to that. At least CR give some breakdown of each product, not just a generalization of the company?s product as a whole. To me, this is more useful for determining which company is worth investing in for future growth based on quality and by extension loyalty, and reinforces my personal feeling in the Apple products I use over the competition, but it doesn?t actually give me any real data. It?s just a pat on the back for those using Apple products.
Or a slap in the face to other manufacturers. But, I think evaluating the companies overall serves a valid purpose, especially when talking about reliability and customer service, which is more of an overall thing to begin with. So, it has it's place alongside specific product reviews, it just means something else: what are the odds I'll have a good experience when buying a product from one of these companies?
Truthfully, why would I expect anything less from Apple. Their products are very reliable and when there is a problem, they usually resolve it QUICKLY. Their tech support is top notch and competent, something that I cannot say about the majority of tech companies around.
They do, which I think is a huge boon for their current Mac success. Being able to go into a store and support is reassuring, even if you don?t know how easy their shipment program is.
While waiting for my wife at dentist office, I was watching a movie on my ipad and kept having to blow dust off of the screen, when I found a spot that would not go away,,, aaarrghh,, a dead pixel I thought.
I made a appointment with the local apple store genius, long story short, 11 minutes after entering store I was walking out with a new ipad, no hassle, no questions, just excellent service.
BTW I was told it was a speck of dust behind the glass by genius, got home, plugged new unit into mac and about an hour later ipad was fully restored,, try that with a PC.
i think apple re-invented apple store from the just-a-show-case-and-sell store to a full-customer-oriented front office. yes, apple store is still selling and showing the latest what apple can offer. but what is more important is that apple moves its support/service into apple store where real users can come in to talk to apple tech guy, a.k.a genius, about their issues. doing this way is a good PR and makes customer feel better.
i think apple re-invented apple store from the just-a-show-case-and-sell store to a full-customer-oriented front office. yes, apple store is still selling and showing the latest what apple can offer. but what is more important is that apple moves its support/service into apple store where real users can come in to talk to apple tech guy, a.k.a genius, about their issues. doing this way is a good PR and makes customer feel better.
Agreed. Now they just need to keep building into more locations. I live in a city of about 400,000 people, which has a reputation for being relatively affluent, and our closest Apple store is 2-3 hours in any direction. I love my Apple products, but when my only feasible option for service and support is a phone call, it makes me a little bummed sometimes.
I'm glad I'm an Apple user!
What the heck are people's experiences with HP and Dell? 10%, 15% unresolvable issues?
It's probably more than that - I suspect it's much more. I have been a frequent contributor to Apple's support website for over ten years, so I'm very familiar with the kinds of "issues" people have. Being a help forum, there are plenty of problems, but most of them are easily addressed. A truly "unsolvable" problem is nearly unheard of - the only one I can think of is Airtunes streaming dropouts (probably a wireless bandwidth limitation, which goes away upon upgrading to an 802.11n network).
Apple also has had its share of premature component failure - TC power supplies come to mind - but in most cases they've made people whole.
Contrast that with HP's support site, to which I also contribute. Many of those complaints simply have no resolution. In most cases the recommendation is the mysterious "reinstall Windows" after which the problem may go away for a while, but eventually crops up again for no apparent reason. Sometimes problems arise, go away, and then inexplicably arise again. HP or Dell can't help when they think it's a Windows problem, and Microsoft can't help when they think it's a hardware problem. Neither one does any good when a component manufacturer writes a buggy or incompatible driver. Problems like these are unsolvable on a practical level, since the permutations of hardware and software combinations is a very large number. Ill-informed consumers just put up with these inconveniences until they eventually give up, and go out to buy another PC since they appear cheaper than Apple plus they run Blu-Ray
Over the long term, considering support and replacement costs, Apple computers are less expensive, though the only justification I have for this claim is anecdotal.
But really what are these other manufacturers doing? Have they kind of given up?
Heck, no. They sell you another computer and Microsoft collects its fifty bucks. That's not giving up - it's a business plan! Which, by the way, answers the following rhetorical question:
When will other companies learn not to sell crappy products?
When consumers learn not to buy crappy products.
Man PC support must be one entirely dysfunctional ecosystem where everyone from Microsoft to hardware makers to support staff all depend on everything being broken, but people just not having "any other choice".
It's beyond dysfunctional - it's the definition of insanity.
Choice exists between one's ears. You'd think it would be easy. But as someone once said, no one ever went broke betting on people's stupidity. In fact, many have become fabulously wealthy.
Over the long term, considering support and replacement costs, Apple computers are less expensive, though the only justification I have for this claim is anecdotal.
Actually, I have a little more than that: Apple has a trade-in program apparently run by PowerON in which you can get an Apple Gift Card for trading in a PC or Mac. Since I'm in the market for a couple of new computers I provided the data for my PowerBooks and PCs. The computers I would trade in consist of two G4 PowerBooks and two Intel HP laptops.
Result?
The Powerbooks were worth $102.69 and $71.19, respectively. They are seven and eight years old, respectively.
The HPs were both worth zero. They are only three years old.
Draw your own conclusions.