Mac OS X Lion and the next-gen MBP - hardware implications?
Hello all ... Longtime lurker, first-time poster, etc., etc.
I know this site needs another "next-gen MBP" thread like it needs a DoS attack, but I have a question that I haven't seen discussed much, if at all:
I'm using a very old Apple laptop and I'm hoping for an MacBook Pro refresh (esp. the 17-inch) soon after Sandy Bridge is released. (Personally, I believe Apple is likely to issue such a refresh ASAP since it's been 9 months since the last refresh.)
That said, I'm also well aware that Mac OS X Lion is due in 2011, and I'm wondering if Lion is expected to have hardware implications for the MBP. I know the theme is "Back to the Mac" and that Lion will bring iOS features to the Mac OS, which is great, but what are people's best guesses re: the hardware implications? If a refreshed MBP is released in Jan. or Feb. 2011, are those machines likely to be fully compatible with (and capable of performing/utilizing all features of) Mac OS X Lion (except maybe for Lightpeak), or are larger hardware issues expected?
Thanks very much for all feedback.
I know this site needs another "next-gen MBP" thread like it needs a DoS attack, but I have a question that I haven't seen discussed much, if at all:
I'm using a very old Apple laptop and I'm hoping for an MacBook Pro refresh (esp. the 17-inch) soon after Sandy Bridge is released. (Personally, I believe Apple is likely to issue such a refresh ASAP since it's been 9 months since the last refresh.)
That said, I'm also well aware that Mac OS X Lion is due in 2011, and I'm wondering if Lion is expected to have hardware implications for the MBP. I know the theme is "Back to the Mac" and that Lion will bring iOS features to the Mac OS, which is great, but what are people's best guesses re: the hardware implications? If a refreshed MBP is released in Jan. or Feb. 2011, are those machines likely to be fully compatible with (and capable of performing/utilizing all features of) Mac OS X Lion (except maybe for Lightpeak), or are larger hardware issues expected?
Thanks very much for all feedback.
Comments
As to speculation, well I'm expecting a major hardware update. That has little to do with Lion though. If anything Lion will be making greater use of the GPU. Of course looking forward Lion is likely to be required for Lightpeak support or other new technologies.
In any event your question is in actuality just another "new" MBP thread. Threads aren't bad, but when the same in answerable question comes up again and again the community really has to wonder about the person asking.
You can't possibly believe that anybody that knows would answer your question. ...
In any event your question is in actuality just another "new" MBP thread. Threads aren't bad, but when the same in answerable question comes up again and again the community really has to wonder about the person asking.
I'm not expecting an Apple engineer to come here and answer. I'm asking people who have followed the Lion info. if Lion is likely to have a hardware impact. (Apple has released some info. on Lion, right? I'm not asking for inside info. or pure speculation.)
I'm not expecting an Apple engineer to come here and answer. I'm asking people who have followed the Lion info. if Lion is likely to have a hardware impact. (Apple has released some info. on Lion, right? I'm not asking for inside info. or pure speculation.)
The problem with that is the info released is related to the obvious. Further I think your perspective is twisted here. If there is new hardware then most likely the OS iswhat will need updating. Operating systems more or less abstract the under lying hardware thus programmers write to an abstraction layer. Eventually the OS outstrips the ability of the underlying hardware to support it well.
The question then becomes what is a good hardware investment to get you through a couple of OS revisions. To that end look for real cores, at least four, a solid GPU and fast access to storage. Beyound buying more cores than you need at the moment there isn't much that you can guess at.
Look at this ways there are multiple "things" that Apple can deliver in Lion that might impact what hardware is ideal. While not mentioned much resolution independence is one example. All the tweekiness about iOS features is a bit of a joke as they will have little impact on hardware needs. In the end I don't think Apple will be so aggressive with Lion that it will stop working on today's hardware. In any event considering the vacuum of information, the question is still odd. I have no doubt that there will be something new hardware wise but I dont get wrapped up in it.
Look at this ways there are multiple "things" that Apple can deliver in Lion that might impact what hardware is ideal. While not mentioned much resolution independence is one example. All the tweekiness about iOS features is a bit of a joke as they will have little impact on hardware needs. ...
This is exactly the type of thing I'm curious about. As I said in the original post, I'm using a much older Apple notebook, so I'm a little behind in terms of compatibility. E.g., if iOS features come to the Mac OS, is the latest-gen trackpad able to handle such tasks/gestures, or is the current trackpad incompatible with some of the latest iOS features/capabilities?
Right now, I'm guessing LightPeak is the No. 1 thing that might arrive alongside Lion, but it's unclear to me if it would be backwards compatible with, e.g., a Jan. 2011 MBP or if it requires entirely next-gen hardware.
Again, I'm not looking for top-secret info. here. I'm just curious on more of a general level, especially after people started insisting in one of the other threads that Apple is likely to wait for Lion before releasing a major overhaul of the MBP. When I started reading that, it seemed like hardware was somehow interconnected with Lion.
I'm not expecting an Apple engineer to come here and answer. I'm asking people who have followed the Lion info. if Lion is likely to have a hardware impact. (Apple has released some info. on Lion, right? I'm not asking for inside info. or pure speculation.)
Likely 64-bit Intel-only. 64-bit kernel by default, and everything not yet rewritten to better serve current computers is rewritten.
...
Again, I'm not looking for top-secret info. here. I'm just curious on more of a general level, especially after people started insisting in one of the other threads that Apple is likely to wait for Lion before releasing a major overhaul of the MBP. When I started reading that, it seemed like hardware was somehow interconnected with Lion.
The "people in one of the other threads" are talking out of their butts. The notion that Apple would delay a hardware release while it waits for new software is wholly without support in the historical record. System 7.1 took Apple through the transition from the 680x0 processor family to the PowerPC. MacOS X 10.4 took Apple through the transition from the PPC to the Intel x86 processor families.
The "people in one of the other threads" are talking out of their butts. The notion that Apple would delay a hardware release while it waits for new software is wholly without support in the historical record. System 7.1 took Apple through the transition from the 680x0 processor family to the PowerPC. MacOS X 10.4 took Apple through the transition from the PPC to the Intel x86 processor families.
Particularly how the first aluminum iMacs were launched alongside that year's iLife/iWork just WEEKS before the launch of Leopard. They came with Tiger. Buyers had to pay for Leopard. Steve even mentioned it specifically. "They run great with Tiger; they'll run even better when Leopard ships."
The "people in one of the other threads" are talking out of their butts. The notion that Apple would delay a hardware release while it waits for new software is wholly without support in the historical record. System 7.1 took Apple through the transition from the 680x0 processor family to the PowerPC. MacOS X 10.4 took Apple through the transition from the PPC to the Intel x86 processor families.
First off Lion is most likely due at the end of 2011. For that reason alone Apple won't wait. The real question is when will the hardware be ready and what will it consist of.
This is exactly the type of thing I'm curious about. As I said in the original post, I'm using a much older Apple notebook, so I'm a little behind in terms of compatibility. E.g., if iOS features come to the Mac OS, is the latest-gen trackpad able to handle such tasks/gestures, or is the current trackpad incompatible with some of the latest iOS features/capabilities?
First off you are indicating you have a very old computer so it really doesn't matter. But again you assume that somebody on this forum can provide specifics on future hardware and software.
As for iOS features, again explain to us why you are obsessed with these very minor features. Everything alluded to up to this time indicates very minor adaptations with respect to Mac OS.
Right now, I'm guessing LightPeak is the No. 1 thing that might arrive alongside Lion, but it's unclear to me if it would be backwards compatible with, e.g., a Jan. 2011 MBP or if it requires entirely next-gen hardware.
Now you are clearly demonstrating a failure to grasp anything people are trying to express here. NO ONE KNOWS WHAT HARDWARE WILL BE IN THE COMING MBP REVS. Is that really that hard to understand?
It is one thing to speculate about or even wish for certain hardware, that is what the forums are all about, but you seem to be looking for fact which isn't found here.
Again, I'm not looking for top-secret info. here. I'm just curious on more of a general level, especially after people started insisting in one of the other threads that Apple is likely to wait for Lion before releasing a major overhaul of the MBP. When I started reading that, it seemed like hardware was somehow interconnected with Lion.
It isn't. At least not 100%.
The big problem here is that you don't seem to understand hardware and software. Or more so the relationship between the two.
I really don't know how to overcome that but if you are trying to decide on buying now or after the rev I'd suggest waiting.
Hello all ... Longtime lurker, first-time poster, etc., etc.
I know this site needs another "next-gen MBP" thread like it needs a DoS attack, but I have a question that I haven't seen discussed much, if at all:
I'm using a very old Apple laptop and I'm hoping for an MacBook Pro refresh (esp. the 17-inch) soon after Sandy Bridge is released. (Personally, I believe Apple is likely to issue such a refresh ASAP since it's been 9 months since the last refresh.)
That said, I'm also well aware that Mac OS X Lion is due in 2011, and I'm wondering if Lion is expected to have hardware implications for the MBP. I know the theme is "Back to the Mac" and that Lion will bring iOS features to the Mac OS, which is great, but what are people's best guesses re: the hardware implications? If a refreshed MBP is released in Jan. or Feb. 2011, are those machines likely to be fully compatible with (and capable of performing/utilizing all features of) Mac OS X Lion (except maybe for Lightpeak), or are larger hardware issues expected?
Thanks very much for all feedback.
Call Cupertino and speak with the tech department.
Call Cupertino and speak with the tech department.
Do you see them doing that in any conceivable circumstance? Even if you called the secretariat line at 1 Infinite Loop, would she put you through?
(My thanks to the people above who actually tried to answer the question.)
This forum is weird. What's the point of having a "Future Hardware" forum if simple questions about future hardware are met with such juvenile replies?
Well, when none of us can tell you anything and everyone has to repeat this for everyone asking a question, wouldn't you believe it gets old? We try to spice it up to keep from going insane. People don't do their own research anymore; the same questions are asked ad infinitum.
As for doing one's research, I know I have trouble understanding the increasingly difficult technical language used to define something. The gurus expect everyone to have a base in whatever they write about. There is simply too much technology out there, with much more to come, to expect everyone to understand everything about everything technical.
I read and read, scratch my head when I don't understand even some of the tech words, and then end up asking the more technically literate on AI.
Technology is coming at me so fast that it is far beyond my ability to assimilate it. TG for AI and those willing to explain it to me without jumping on me because I'm not as smart or experienced as they are.
Maybe we technical morons should bow out from AI and leave it to the "intelligentsia". NO; we need your expertise when we can't understand something.
Again, don't be so hard on any of us who aren't engaged in day to day use of technology as you are. Please don't talk down to us.
Finally, if you buy any Mac in 2011 there is no way in hell it will not run Lion well for the next 3 years. Of course along the way upgrading to SSD or at least a 7200rpm drive wouldn't hurt.
sequitur that was a brilliant piece of writing. I wholeheartedly agree. As I grow older and mature, I continue to be impressed with the power of teamwork and the importance of effective communication toward this end.
Teamwork is extremely important. However carrying dead weight is not. In fact the fastest way to get yourself fired these days is to demonstrate you don't understand what is being communicated to you after repeated attempts. This is especially case in organizations where they have embraced lean methods beyond all reason.
I find that it's usually (but not always) quicker to ask someone a question, and understand what you need to know in five minutes, versus looking around on Google for an hour. (This is after putting in the first few minutes seeing whether it is worth learning on your own or whether you should "phone a friend").
The problem is the question being asked can't be answered in a factual manner by anyone on the forum. The problems the way the question was put forth. It is one thing to want to get involved in a speculative discussion about future products, it is another thing to inquire about what future hardware will be like and expecting a precise revalation about what is to come. The obvious problembeing that nobody knows.
The problem is historically we have seen many posts like this in the past and when something doesn't live up to inflated expectations we end up with much invective thrownat the rest of the group members. Considering the individuals responses so far there is a high probability that that will happen again. Frankly I really don't like that garbage especially when disappointed people go on and on about posters not knowing what they are talking about. I've seen nothing in the repeated postings to indicate a grasp of the difference between speculation or wishful thinking and postings based on fact.
Because then you can return the favor the person that helps you. If everyone helps each other, it ends up saving time. And in the end bosses would rather have an effective team under them than one Alpha Dog.
While I'm not sure what it has to do with the discusion as there are many approaches to management some very demanding. For example some business managers hire new personnel every year even though they are not expanding employment. The lowest performers or the highways drags are simply shoved out the door as not useful.
It seems counter-intuitive at first if there is only so much resources for raises, etc. But that's becoming my professional and management philosophy.
That is sad! You will likely loose a lot of good people over time. Nobody likes to carry an idiot on their shoulders.
What do you think?
This could be an issue related to having a command of English. Maybe, I don't know. I suspect though that we aren't communicating well. In the end I only worry about what will happen when the new product hits and somthing speculated about isn't there. In the past it has gotten ugly.
I have learned so much about tech here from AI members. I have passed it on here and in the real world. It is rewarding to pass on to others what you've learned.
Yes it is. The problem is the perception here that what is discussed can be taken as factual.
The only hardware implication I can think of is that, if it is 64-bit only, then the first Intel Macs will not be supported as the Core Duo (not 2) was a 32-bit processor. But I'd give that about a 50/50 chance of happening.
I don't think they'll dump the 32bit Intels with Lion. Mah gut feeling.
I don't think they'll dump the 32bit Intels with Lion. Mah gut feeling.
I have to wonder how many of the early Intel Macs where 32 bit only.
Would the dropping of 32 bit hardware be a big deal though? Lets face it Snow Leopard is a pretty good OS and if they continue to maintain it would people complain all that much? In the end nothing from iOS would restrict Lion to 64 bit only devices, so if there is a transition then it is likely caused by something other than those features.
One possibility is resolution independence. That would likely be demanding on the GPU not the CPU. In the end I kinda agree with you I just don't see a reason for Apple to drop 32 bit hardware with this go around. Besides having a 32 bit kernel is beneficial because what is learned there translates directly into iOS's kernel.