I've always been told she was, but now I find out that many Christians say this is not true. Please provide non-ambiguous biblical references (are there really such things?) that point either way, so that I may clear up my confusion.
I don't think she was ever labeled a prostitute. She had some demons cast out of her by big J, but none of the apostles ever got around to saying what those were.
Luke 8:2-3
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils....and(blah, blah)...which ministered unto him of their substance.
That's about as non-ambiguous as you're going to get. I think the whole prostitute idea came from that drying-of-feet-with-hair thing, although 'ministering him with their substance' sounds a bit fishy.
I've always had a peculiar fascination with MM. She's got her own mini-cathedral right in Paris. It's beautiful.
there was a religious figure that lived in the time of Jesus that was known as a magician by some and was known as a Gnostic, Simon Magus. Supposedly when he travelled around Latin speaking quarters he went by the name of Faustus, he also was supposed to have a consort sidekick that went by the name of Helen . . .(so if any of you know about the different version of the Faust story throughout history this is interesting no?!?!) Anyway, some people think that perhaps Helen had been a prostitute before she hooked up W/ Magus . . . and, many people think that there are sincretisms between histories of these figures and blendings of the stories . . . after all, there had been many forms of Christian Gnosticism floating around back in those days . . . .
so maybe that's a source of the prostitute figuration of the MM story
Hmm. If I remember correctly (which I may not, its been a while since I read this), in the version you're referring to Helen was supposedly the reincarnation or conjuring (alluding to Simon's great power) of Helen of Troy. HoT wasn't a prostitute, just an adulteress.
But, as the saying goes, you always pay for it one way or another. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Yes, that's the way it is in both the Marlowe and the Goethe versions of Faust. He conjures up Helen of Troy as proof of his power.
But the historical/mythic figure of Simon Magus is another story, even if it may be at the root of the other storied versions of the Faust tale. And, in the mythic/historical aspect of Simon Magus he had a"consort" named that went by the name of Helen in certain quarters . . .just as he went by Faust in Latin quarters.
Her story is not known, though there is speculation as to her exact role and character. . . .but its pure spec.
There are stories about Simon Magus and the apostles: such as when one of the apostles causes Magus to fall as he is showing off his magic by levitating . . . .
anyway, the Gnosticism of Simon Magus was a powerrful Philosophy/Religion at the time and as time passed I think there is much sinchretism(sp?) with it and all the other ideas floatiing around at the time . . .ideas and myths and details . . .all a hodge-podge together . . .
Right, now it's starting to come back to me (a bit). Simon had a little 'competition' with Peter and ended up breaking his leg. I remember the name of the woman he was traveling with as Sophia though. Maybe I'm mixing my history and myth. I've gotta work on my memory skills!
I really doubt it. After all she was the one that anointed Jesus with some expensive perfume. I don't know if that would make any difference, but from what I read she sounds like a good person that truely loves Jesus with all her heart.
This is one of those things. The convention is that MM was a prostitute, but we've gotten that filtered through 2000 years of middle-eastern culture and then through European culture. I say this because what constitutes "prostitution" changes over time.
As for early church history, I suggest you read EVERYTHING Elaine Pagels has ever written, starting with _The Gnostic Gospels_ and _Adam, Eve and the Serpent_. _The Origin of Satan_ wouldn't hurt, either. Pagels is phenomenal, and the only problem I have with her books is that they kind of lose steam about 75% of the way through--but that's only because she's made her case so convincingly.
Here are the places where Mary Magdalene's name is mentioned in the Gospels:
Quote:
Luke 8
1 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
John 19
24 "Let's not tear it," they said to one another. "Let's decide by lot who will get it." This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said, "They divided my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing." So this is what the soldiers did.
25 Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son,"
Mark 15
39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, "Surely this man was the Son of God!"
40 Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome. 41 In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there.
Matthew 27
54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"
55 Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. 56 Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.
Mark 15
46 So Joseph bought some linen cloth, took down the body, wrapped it in the linen, and placed it in a tomb cut out of rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.
Matthew 27
59 Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. 61 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb.
Matthew 28
1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
Mark 16
1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb
John 20
1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"
3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)
10 Then the disciples went back to their homes, 11 but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
13 They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?"
14 "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him." At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
15 "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?"
Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."
16 Jesus said to her, "Mary."
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).
17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "
18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.
Luke 24
9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.
Sure-- you know your Bible verses pretty well, but what about your Andrew Lloyd Webber?
By the way, all those verses were from the NIV. And not many people would know the Bible well enough to be able to produce those verses. Ten years ago I would have used a concordance. Nowadays I just go here and do a word search.
It is quite possible that in the middle east there were still residues of society with a completely different conception of prostitution, lingering mesopotamian/babylonian value systems, present also in the sexual/slavery practice of greece and rome that had not been fully suppressed by a new asceticism coming through certain channels of Judea, such as the Assenes and christians.
You do find legend where the harlot plays important roles, ie Gilgamesh, and there is little denigration, the wording only suggests a duty, more like vocation, than (villified) subculture.
And it is possible that prostitution was not regarded with scorn through much of the middle east untill relatively late. So, mebbe she was a prossie, but that had entirely different connotations in 25AD than it does in 2003 ???
PS, I realize the time span betwen Gilgamesh (even the writing of) and Jesus is rather huge, but with so much sexual reference in the books of the bible, and the practice of the greeks and romans, and the multitude of tribes still wandering the middle east, it is possible that a different conception of the idea prostitute, one incompatible with ours, was still in effect in significant portions of the population, and only really finally supressed with the full masculinization of religion enacted by the figure of Jesus.
Comments
Luke 8:2-3
And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils....and(blah, blah)...which ministered unto him of their substance.
That's about as non-ambiguous as you're going to get. I think the whole prostitute idea came from that drying-of-feet-with-hair thing, although 'ministering him with their substance' sounds a bit fishy.
I've always had a peculiar fascination with MM. She's got her own mini-cathedral right in Paris. It's beautiful.
so maybe that's a source of the prostitute figuration of the MM story
But, as the saying goes, you always pay for it one way or another.
But the historical/mythic figure of Simon Magus is another story, even if it may be at the root of the other storied versions of the Faust tale. And, in the mythic/historical aspect of Simon Magus he had a"consort" named that went by the name of Helen in certain quarters . . .just as he went by Faust in Latin quarters.
Her story is not known, though there is speculation as to her exact role and character. . . .but its pure spec.
There are stories about Simon Magus and the apostles: such as when one of the apostles causes Magus to fall as he is showing off his magic by levitating . . . .
anyway, the Gnosticism of Simon Magus was a powerrful Philosophy/Religion at the time and as time passed I think there is much sinchretism(sp?) with it and all the other ideas floatiing around at the time . . .ideas and myths and details . . .all a hodge-podge together . . .
As for early church history, I suggest you read EVERYTHING Elaine Pagels has ever written, starting with _The Gnostic Gospels_ and _Adam, Eve and the Serpent_. _The Origin of Satan_ wouldn't hurt, either. Pagels is phenomenal, and the only problem I have with her books is that they kind of lose steam about 75% of the way through--but that's only because she's made her case so convincingly.
Cheers
Scott
Luke 8
1 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, 2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; 3 Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
John 19
24 "Let's not tear it," they said to one another. "Let's decide by lot who will get it." This happened that the scripture might be fulfilled which said, "They divided my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing." So this is what the soldiers did.
25 Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son,"
Mark 15
39 And when the centurion, who stood there in front of Jesus, heard his cry and saw how he died, he said, "Surely this man was the Son of God!"
40 Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome. 41 In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there.
Matthew 27
54 When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified, and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God!"
55 Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. 56 Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.
Mark 15
46 So Joseph bought some linen cloth, took down the body, wrapped it in the linen, and placed it in a tomb cut out of rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.
Matthew 27
59 Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60 and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. 61 Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb.
Matthew 28
1 After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb.
2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow.
Mark 16
1 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb
John 20
1 Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. 2 So she came running to Simon Peter and the other disciple, the one Jesus loved, and said, "They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don't know where they have put him!"
3 So Peter and the other disciple started for the tomb. 4 Both were running, but the other disciple outran Peter and reached the tomb first. 5 He bent over and looked in at the strips of linen lying there but did not go in. 6 Then Simon Peter, who was behind him, arrived and went into the tomb. He saw the strips of linen lying there, 7 as well as the burial cloth that had been around Jesus' head. The cloth was folded up by itself, separate from the linen. 8 Finally the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went inside. He saw and believed. 9 (They still did not understand from Scripture that Jesus had to rise from the dead.)
10 Then the disciples went back to their homes, 11 but Mary stood outside the tomb crying. As she wept, she bent over to look into the tomb 12 and saw two angels in white, seated where Jesus' body had been, one at the head and the other at the foot.
13 They asked her, "Woman, why are you crying?"
14 "They have taken my Lord away," she said, "and I don't know where they have put him." At this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing there, but she did not realize that it was Jesus.
15 "Woman," he said, "why are you crying? Who is it you are looking for?"
Thinking he was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have put him, and I will get him."
16 Jesus said to her, "Mary."
She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, "Rabboni!" (which means Teacher).
17 Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "
18 Mary Magdalene went to the disciples with the news: "I have seen the Lord!" And she told them that he had said these things to her.
Luke 24
9 When they came back from the tomb, they told all these things to the Eleven and to all the others. 10 It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother of James, and the others with them who told this to the apostles. 11 But they did not believe the women, because their words seemed to them like nonsense.
Nothing here about her being a prostitute.
Originally posted by zaphod_beeblebrox
Here are the places where Mary Magdalene's name is mentioned in the Gospels:
[Bible Verses]
Nothing here about her being a prostitute.
Sure-- you know your Bible verses pretty well, but what about your Andrew Lloyd Webber?
When Mary Magdalene sang, "I Don't Know How To Love Him," in Jesus Christ Superstar, she said:
And I've had so many men before
In very many ways
Around these parts, that's good enough for a Confirmed!
HA HA HA, check this out. Second link on "Mary Magdalene prostitute"
http://www.magdalene.org/faq.htm
Originally posted by GardenOfEarthlyDelights
Sure-- you know your Bible verses pretty well, but what about your Andrew Lloyd Webber?
By the way, all those verses were from the NIV. And not many people would know the Bible well enough to be able to produce those verses. Ten years ago I would have used a concordance. Nowadays I just go here and do a word search.
You do find legend where the harlot plays important roles, ie Gilgamesh, and there is little denigration, the wording only suggests a duty, more like vocation, than (villified) subculture.
And it is possible that prostitution was not regarded with scorn through much of the middle east untill relatively late. So, mebbe she was a prossie, but that had entirely different connotations in 25AD than it does in 2003 ???
PS, I realize the time span betwen Gilgamesh (even the writing of) and Jesus is rather huge, but with so much sexual reference in the books of the bible, and the practice of the greeks and romans, and the multitude of tribes still wandering the middle east, it is possible that a different conception of the idea prostitute, one incompatible with ours, was still in effect in significant portions of the population, and only really finally supressed with the full masculinization of religion enacted by the figure of Jesus.