"Go Pills" killed our troops?
Does anyone else feel absolutely appalled that American fighter pilots are flying for 30 hours and are taking pills to keep them awake?
I'm forced to wonder how quickly the S##t would be kick out of us <Canadians> if the rolls where reversed.
anyone care to comment?
flick.
I'm forced to wonder how quickly the S##t would be kick out of us <Canadians> if the rolls where reversed.
anyone care to comment?
flick.
Comments
Time to unionize the troops. The Canadians that were killed may have been killed for this reason. It's crap and the military brass should take a stand. Either troops are officially encouraged to use them, or they're forbidden. None of this blurry line crap. The military should take some responsibility and accountability.
<strong>I don't see how amphetamines would make someone drop bombs on Canadians. I think they're reaching.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know what you mean. Are you saying that you know what did cause it and this is just an excuse?
<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/02/mistaken.bombing/index.html"; target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/02/mistaken.bombing/index.html</a>;
"A lawyer for one of two U.S. pilots who released a bomb over southern Afghanistan in April, accidentally killing four Canadian soldiers, says the Air Force had pressured the pilots to take amphetamines that may have impaired their judgment during the mission."
I'm terrified. If I were in charge I would pull our troops. there is no way I would want these clowns flying over head even if they are on our side!
I was watching the news this morning and they interview a doctor from out of texas that was Totally defending the use of these pills. he figures that if your a pilot and are tired you should pop a pill and keep going. the thought that they should park the plane and have a nap never even occurred to him. the interviewer <a canadian> looked so disjointed i though he was going to slap this doctor.. unreal.
flick.
<strong>I don't know what you mean. Are you saying that you know what did cause it and this is just an excuse?</strong><hr></blockquote>I'm saying that it was human error but it's doubtful these pills would make errors more likely.
Also, what is the alternative? Sleepy pilots? How can anyone argue that could possibly be better? It judgement better when you are tired or when you are wide awake?
Fact is, they were told not to engage and did anyway. It was their mistake, not the drug's. Period. It is their responsibility to follow the orders given to them.
Anyway, it is just what their lawyers concoted as a defence. Hardly validates it. Just like hundreds of thousands of court cases every year. That's why we have a [imperfect] judicial process.
Operations conducted by the US military are the safest in the world. War kills people. Soldiers die. Shit happens. If you don't want people to die for no reason, don't allow your governments to conduct needless military operations.
[ 01-15-2003: Message edited by: giant ]</p>
Sleepy Pilots should sleep.
[quote]As long as there is war, there will be many accidental deaths at the hands of allies. On one fateful night, 410 Americans died from a bombing blunder in the Second World War...It has been calculated that 21 per cent of U.S. casualties in the Second World War were from friendly fire. In Korea it was 18 per cent, in Vietnam 39 and in the Gulf War a whopping 49 per cent...We should grieve for four young men killed in a faraway land, and for their families here at home. But it should be a grief without hysteria, without a reactive urge to seek blame and demands for revenge. Just grief, with a sad acknowledgment that friendly fire will kill and continue to kill, again and again, for as long as men making war make mistakes.
<hr></blockquote>
[ 01-15-2003: Message edited by: giant ]</p>
The fact is, war is going to cost lives. That is what it is designed to do. Mistakes will be made as long as humans exist. Deal with it. War is war. If you have a problem with it, devote some time to making sure the wars your government engages in are worth the lives that will, by the simple definition of war, be lost.
The American military is the most highly trained in the world and has the most resources available to it. But mistakes will be made. Canadians have made mistakes. Dutch have made mistakes. Hell, I made mistakes just playing war as a kid. Humans make mistakes. When you are dealing with machines designed to cause destruction, the mistakes will unavoidably result in unintended destruction. Soldiers accept this possibility.
As the quote says above: 'As long as there is war, there will be many accidental deaths at the hands of allies.' The only solution: No war.
[ 01-15-2003: Message edited by: giant ]</p>
but in countries where F16s with 10001b bombs are harder for unstable people to get, the death rate from their use and misuse are substantially lower. go figure.
can't really see a new category of crime... "BUI - bombing under the influence"
"step out of the aircraft and walk heel-toe along this contrail for me sir..."
"license, registration, and stomach contents, please"
anybody who thinks amphetamines don't make you aggressive hasn't been in a mosh pit
cops don't worry about the struggle from stoners and drunks...
it's the guys whacked on speed and pcp that are dangerous and unpredictable.
now, the west coast solution is obvious... little espresso machines in the cockpit
mocha frappucino death from above due to twitchy caffeinated finger on trigger...
and think of the chuck jones routines that regular "one lump or two" service would offer
this poster has been up since it happened. true.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
but in countries where F16s with 10001b bombs are harder for unstable people to get, the death rate from their use and misuse are substantially lower. go figure.
<hr></blockquote>
This statement is so careless, I'm not even sure how to look it up to find your source.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: giant ]</p>
[ 01-22-2003: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
<strong>
This statement is so careless, I'm not even sure how to look it up to find your source.
[ 01-16-2003: Message edited by: giant ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
sorry... couldn't find an appropriate michael moore "waiting for columbine-esque" quote
and there's no smiley for facetiousness
<nice link. and good point, btw.>
as a fellow canuck, i was ribbing... we're forever being told about the difference in handgun deaths from the UK to USA to Canada to Australia to yadda yadda, and they always quote the availability as a major issue...
we fly F-18s. (don't get an Avro Arrow thread started). only the US and Israel fly f-16s to my recollection. don't think the Taiwan sale went through. certainly not while i was there.
regardless, my comment was mostly tongue in cheek
blame is mostly an issue for the families and the politicians. all parties share some responsibility, but murphy may be the only one tarred in the end
i know a few pilots (no Lawn Dart jocks, though) and have ultimate respect... except for the eyesight and 6'2" frame, I might have swapped lives... but the parallel lives thread is also pending
posited purely to perk and to put $0.035 in the pot
better value added than just adding *bump*
je m'excuse
grains of salt are your friend