What is this world coming to?
I did not see another thread on this and felt as though it should have one.
<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/873184.asp"; target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.com/news/873184.asp</a>;
[quote]<strong>
D.C. surveillance tape records indifference to killing
By David A. Fahrenthold
THE WASHINGTON POST
Feb. 15 ? D.C. police released a startling surveillance tape yesterday that shows a daylight killing at a Northeast Washington gas station and witnesses doing nothing to report the crime or tend to the victim as he lay bleeding on the concrete.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The story goes on to say how the guy was shot at 9:09 am in front of witnesses who ignore the fact. One guy even finishes pumping his Kerosene, pays for it and drives off and the guy was right next to him! :eek:
911 is not even called until 9:36 am!!! I know that thing are bad in DC but this is nearly unthinkable to me. How could people be so callous?
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
<a href="http://www.msnbc.com/news/873184.asp"; target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.com/news/873184.asp</a>;
[quote]<strong>
D.C. surveillance tape records indifference to killing
By David A. Fahrenthold
THE WASHINGTON POST
Feb. 15 ? D.C. police released a startling surveillance tape yesterday that shows a daylight killing at a Northeast Washington gas station and witnesses doing nothing to report the crime or tend to the victim as he lay bleeding on the concrete.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The story goes on to say how the guy was shot at 9:09 am in front of witnesses who ignore the fact. One guy even finishes pumping his Kerosene, pays for it and drives off and the guy was right next to him! :eek:
911 is not even called until 9:36 am!!! I know that thing are bad in DC but this is nearly unthinkable to me. How could people be so callous?
<img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />
Comments
Thats a new way of fighting crime. Guess the snuff film industry lost a couple of good sales
But from the way things are these days...one insane news story leads into <a href="http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/54677.htm"; target="_blank">another</a>.
<strong>Yeah, I saw the video on the news. Very hard to make out, but still...pretty sad.
But from the way things are these days...one insane news story leads into <a href="http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/54677.htm"; target="_blank">another</a>.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Arrggghhhh!!!
Where are we going, and what is this handbasket all about?
<strong>do you really think the world is a worse place than, say 100 years ago? 50 years ago?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No. But we get this deluge of information instantaneously. At a rate where for most people it's impossible to digest without thought, insight or clarity. A freaking firehose of shit...
i reckon the average age of this forum to be 20-ish and since i'm in my 40's i wondered what younger people think of the question.
<strong>I have to find a link to a story like this back in the early 1900s in New York. A woman was chased and repeatedly attacked in the courtyard of a tenement complex, yet despite her repeated screams for over 2 hours, no one reported the crime. I learned about that in social psychology class. Common for a group of people to be moved to inaction like that. The individual isn't responsible.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is an infamous case . . . from the 70s . . . used in psych classes all the time . .
about this getting worse with time and age thing: here is a statistic that is actually kind of profound . . . I am paraphrasing from memory but its p[rety close:
60% of people under the age of 60 believe that you get wiser as you get older
10% over 60 believe that you get wiser as you get older.
...um that means . . . uh . . .
<strong>that was kind of why i ask, if you ask someone in their 60's that question they will more than likely say hell yeah it's a worse place!!!
i reckon the average age of this forum to be 20-ish and since i'm in my 40's i wondered what younger people think of the question.</strong><hr></blockquote>
My late father was 88 years old. He thought the whole world was going to Hell. Thankfully, he passed away from Parkinson's before all this 9|11, DC Sniper and "Assholes of Evil" crap...but he lived through WWI, Depression, Prohibition Wars, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War, JFK, Nixon, RFK, MLK, Gulf War and still thought things were going to that handbasket in the sky...
I watched a documentary about the famines in Russia in the 18-1900's and the people were resorting to mass cannibalism to survive...so in some places it's inconceivable to what others go (have gone) through and at what lengths people will act towards things and each other.
Thankfully, there are <a href="http://www.e-michael.jp/gallery.htm"; target="_blank">kittens and puppies</a>.
Depends on where in the world you happen to be, but in general let me just answer that with a
"NAH. It's BETTER than it was 50 years ago. Much less violent crime and desensitization to violence."
<strong>That is an infamous case . . . from the 70s . . . used in psych classes all the time . . .</strong><hr></blockquote>
Damn, I thought it was much older than that.
I don't think people are more callous, I just think they're afraid to get involved, and even if they do want to help, they're not sure what to do.
And if we think things are getting worse, remember the Good Samaritan parable. That was a couple thousand years ago, right?
<strong>Kitty Genovese - happened in the early 60s.
I don't think people are more callous, I just think they're afraid to get involved, and even if they do want to help, they're not sure what to do.
And if we think things are getting worse, remember the Good Samaritan parable. That was a couple thousand years ago, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ya beat me to it!
<strong>Kitty Genovese - happened in the early 60s.
I don't think people are more callous, I just think they're afraid to get involved, and even if they do want to help, they're not sure what to do.
And if we think things are getting worse, remember the Good Samaritan parable. That was a couple thousand years ago, right?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I would agree that people are more afraid to get involved, but to not eve dial 911 for 30 minutes? That is callous. You do not even have to give them more information than the address and the situation, give a fake name for all I care.
And concerning the Good Samaritan, there were a lot of other issues that played into that story as well. Religious issues of touching dead people before visiting the temple, class issues, and then lastly, fear of other attackers that would also attack them if they stopped. For me, it is not even close to the same. Still callous and selfish, but for different reasons.
[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
<strong>
I would agree that people are more afraid to get involved, but to not eve dial 911 for 30 minutes? That is callous. You do not even have to give them more information than the address and the situation, give a fake name for all I care.
And concerning the Good Samaritan, there were a lot of other issues that played into that story as well. Religious issues of touching dead people before visiting the temple, class issues, and then lastly, fear of other attackers that would also attack them if they stopped. For me, it is not even close to the same. Still callous and selfish, but for different reasons.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't know that I agree with you, Noah. Yes, it's terrible that this happened. But I don't think that these people didn't care. There could have been a million reasons for them not to call and I think that not caring is on the bottom of that list. It's hard to get involved. It's disturbing to do something like that.
And as BuonRotto said, everyone thinks someone else will do it. Diffusion of responsibility is the fancy psychological term for it. Kitty Genovese was the most prominent example, but this one will be right up there too.
Who knows what was going through these people's heads when this happened? I don't think anyone can really say. But it's not that people have become (or are) callous. At least not most people. My 2¢.
[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: torifile ]</p>
<strong>
I don't know that I agree with you, Noah. Yes, it's terrible that this happened. But I don't think that these people didn't care. There could have been a million reasons for them not to call and I think that not caring is on the bottom of that list. It's hard to get involved. It's disturbing to do something like that.
And as BuonRotto said, everyone thinks someone else will do it. Diffusion of responsibility is the fancy psychological term for it. Kitty Genovese was the most prominent example, but this one will be right up there too.
Who knows what was going through these people's heads when this happened? I don't think anyone can really say. But it's not that people have become (or are) callous. At least not most people. My 2¢.
[ 02-18-2003: Message edited by: torifile ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you watched the guy get shot next to you. Continued to pump your kerosene, Walked over and paid for said kerosene, Then drove off without mentioning it to the one person who had a phone (the cashier, who found out from another patron about 3 minutes later) who could dial 911 if you did not want to, you are callous. I hope that guy feels like crap right now, because if he does not he is a sad excuse for a human being.
Everything we see on TV: shootings, stabbings, cop shows that glorify shootings and stabbings, movies - all of it leads to a sort of "yeah, that's just the way it is" attitude among many people. Until of course it happens to someone they know. Then it's a big deal again for them.
At the same time, we might think things are worse than they were in the past, simply because more and more, terrible news is what has sold for the last 20-30 years on TV news. So you can make the argument that it *seems* worse, simply because we're exposed to it more.
However, that line of reasoning only goes so far. When you look at all the behind-the-scenes cop shows, all the movies, TV dramas, all the deaths we hear about here (all over the world) - there is clearly a degree of rampancy to the whole scenario that wasn't present even during the 60's and 70's.
Is the world a significantly more violent or brutal place than it was say in the 60's or 70's? Maybe not. The 1930's or 1940's? I'd say yes: unequivocally it is a more violent, calous and brutal place - World Wars not withstanding as that is an entirely different matter. I'm talking civilian issues here.
Also, it depends on where in the world you happen to be standing during a given era to really answer the question. But I think it's pretty obvious that we - the people of middle earth (southwest side, FOO!)- are in becoming more uncivil every year, not less. In some areas like DC, I'd replace the word uncivil with "barbaric".
That guy who stood by and watched - he has the mentality of a cave man, period. Callous doesn't even begin to describe him (and lots others like him, every - single - day, that we never read about).