US (NSA) spy UN security council ?

ibeniibeni
Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
Welcome to 1984 !

next step is mindcontrol !



<a href="http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html</a>;
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 50
    agent302agent302 Posts: 974member
    [quote]Originally posted by iBeni:

    <strong>Welcome to 1984 !

    next step is mindcontrol !



    <a href="http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.observer.co.uk/iraq/story/0,12239,905936,00.html</a></strong><hr></blockquote>;



    Because Mi5, Mossad, and the FSB have never spied on other nations either.... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" /> <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[oyvey]" />



    Well, my brother did work for the NSA, maybe he knows something...



    [ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: agent302 ]</p>
  • Reply 2 of 50
    jrcjrc Posts: 817member
    I can't see why we WOULDN'T spy on any and everybody.
  • Reply 3 of 50
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by JRC:

    <strong>I can't see why we WOULDN'T spy on any and everybody.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Don't you see a contradiction between the right to spy everyone, and freedoom ?
  • Reply 4 of 50
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    I noticed New had posted this in another thread. I'm shocked disgusted. Am I naive and this happens all the time? Shouldn't this be a huge scandal? Shouldn't we be out spying on TERRORSITS rather than UN diplomats? <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />



    Spying isn't necessarily dirty, if you're spying on military enemies or terrorists to learn about attacks or plans. But spying in order to blackmail or intimidate diplomats?
  • Reply 5 of 50
    crusadercrusader Posts: 1,129member
    And why shouldn't we spy to gain a advantage? Spying is one of the world's earliest diplomatic tools. It allows a country to determine the position and stability of another giving a definite advantage. Blackmail is just another tool in the vast diplomatic arsenal. Trade meetings between countries are the most insecure places in the world in terms of SIGINT; any country that doesn't recongnize it well, doesn't exist. Personally I'd be more worried about ECHELON, and the NSA developing a efficient computer system to sort thru the massive amount of data gathered in that system. Hey do you know that the NSA has/d a deal with Cisco to have backdoors placed in everysingle one of thier routers? That's freaky stuff.
  • Reply 6 of 50
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Wake the hell up. You don't think the EU, France, Russia, China, Cuba, Germany and most other players on the international scene aren't spying on the US and on each other? Why is this even news?
  • Reply 7 of 50
    groveratgroverat Posts: 10,872member
    It's a very ugly business but everyone does it. I don't like it in spite of that.
  • Reply 8 of 50
    ibeniibeni Posts: 54member
    well spying is one thing.

    But spying to legitimate a war and still justify it by a term called "democracy" is irony in it's maximum form.
  • Reply 9 of 50
    ghost_user_nameghost_user_name Posts: 22,667member
    [quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:

    <strong>



    Don't you see a contradiction between the right to spy everyone, and freedoom ?</strong><hr></blockquote>





    These are foreign government agents. You would hope someone is keeping an eye on them.



    On a philosophical level, God know about everything you do, did, and will do. Does that mean that if you believe in God you have no freedom?
  • Reply 10 of 50
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    Gorverat is right. It's wrong, but it's an endless cycle of mistrust. When you stop doing it, you risk so much at this point. What a world.
  • Reply 11 of 50
    finboyfinboy Posts: 383member
    [quote]Originally posted by JRC:

    <strong>I can't see why we WOULDN'T spy on any and everybody.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Right. It's NOT news, and it is unavoidable. To NOT spy would be to keep our heads in the sand.



    I don't like the idea of Iraq using spy allegations to somehow weaken the arguments of the rest of the world, though.



    [ 03-02-2003: Message edited by: finboy ]</p>
  • Reply 12 of 50
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    [quote]Originally posted by iBeni:

    <strong>well spying is one thing.

    But spying to legitimate a war and still justify it by a term called "democracy" is irony in it's maximum form.</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Spying to legitimize a war makes sense. You would prefer a war based on speculation and hearsay? Spying provides intel so that decisions can be made with as much knowledge of a situation as is possible. Doing it in the name of democracy isn't ironic either. Why would one believe that knowing what other govenments are planning is against democratic ideals? There is nothing ironic about intelligence gathering for the defense of democracy.
  • Reply 13 of 50
    jrcjrc Posts: 817member
    [quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:

    <strong>



    Don't you see a contradiction between the right to spy everyone, and freedoom ?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Oh, sorry. I thought we were talking about the UN foreigners, not US citizens. I can't remember taking an oath to all other countrys' rights. BUt, I've slept since then.



    Please don't make me remember that if it happened either. Because I'm old enough not to give a damn about it if it DID happen anyway.
  • Reply 14 of 50
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    the problem is, as BRussel pointed out, how we are supposed to trust democracy, even the quasi-democratic processes of the security council, when one party has the upper hand and can manipulate the others?



    Watergate anyone?
  • Reply 15 of 50
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    [quote]Originally posted by New:

    <strong>the problem is, as BRussel pointed out, how we are supposed to trust democracy, even the quasi-democratic processes of the security council, when one party has the upper hand and can manipulate the others?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    What makes you think we're the only one eavesdropping?
  • Reply 16 of 50
    newnew Posts: 3,244member
    [quote]Originally posted by BuonRotto:

    <strong>



    What makes you think we're the only one eavesdropping?</strong><hr></blockquote>

    Of course I can't know that. I suspect others spy to. But the UN hq being in New York certainly gives you some advantage, right?



    And since the US is pushing for this war, this doesn't benefit your image
  • Reply 17 of 50
    toweltowel Posts: 1,479member
    "Gentlemen do not read each other's mail", eh?* Don't think I like where that line of reasoning led us.



    * Henry Stimson, Secretary of State; quote is attributed to his reaction upon finding out iin 1929 that the Dept of State had a codebreaking bureau, which he promptly disbanded. For good measure, he advised the governments whose codes had been cracked to change them. The Japanese took his advice, and their military codes were not again broken until well into WWII.
  • Reply 18 of 50
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by zKillah:

    <strong>





    These are foreign government agents. You would hope someone is keeping an eye on them.



    On a philosophical level, God know about everything you do, did, and will do. Does that mean that if you believe in God you have no freedom?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    I was answering to a general sentance, however JRC precised that it was only for UN foreign agent.



    And for the philosophical level, good try. But there is a great difference between god and a governement. God do not interfere and thus your freedoom are respected. I don't think that gov wish to not interfere ...



    In this aera (secret services) this practice is not immoral unless you failed to keep it secret.
  • Reply 19 of 50
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by JRC:

    <strong>



    Oh, sorry. I thought we were talking about the UN foreigners, not US citizens. I can't remember taking an oath to all other countrys' rights. BUt, I've slept since then.



    Please don't make me remember that if it happened either. Because I'm old enough not to give a damn about it if it DID happen anyway.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    You did make a general sentance, however i am glad to hear that you are concerned by the rights of your co-citizens, but you do not care for the rights of other countries even if they are your democratics allies.
  • Reply 20 of 50
    jrcjrc Posts: 817member
    [quote]Originally posted by Powerdoc:

    <strong>



    You did make a general sentance, however i am glad to hear that you are concerned by the rights of your co-citizens, but you do not care for the rights of other countries even if they are your democratics allies.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    Hey, allies come and allies go, you know. I won't bore you with a list that ends with the most recent, France.
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