American Stereotypes
Perhaps this should have gone in the Where You From thread, but I've probably left it a bit late, so I thought I'd ask it here.
As a non American who has never visited the USA, the impressions I get of people on AI are partly based on the State they live in, and American films I've seen in the past.
For example, if someones from Kansas, I imagine they live on a farm surrounded by wheat fields, with a sister called Dorothy and a dog called Toto. If someones from California, I imagine they're a bronzed hunk who straps a surfboard to the top of their jeep and heads off for the beach everyday. If someones from Texas, I imagine them riding around a ranch wearing a stetson, chaps and spurs. If someones from Pennsylvania, I imagine they're an inbred hillbilly with goofy teeth, a checked shirt, breeches and a shot gun.
Extending it further, if someones from Canada, I imagine they live in a log cabin, wear raccoon furs and travel around using a team of dogs and a sled.
Do any of these stereotypes have any basis in fact? Without getting too personal, do people here recognise themselves as being any of the above (or other people on AI as being any of the above)? Have modern communications, including the internet, resulted in people losing their individuality, or didn't it exist in the first place?
Thanks for any replies.
As a non American who has never visited the USA, the impressions I get of people on AI are partly based on the State they live in, and American films I've seen in the past.
For example, if someones from Kansas, I imagine they live on a farm surrounded by wheat fields, with a sister called Dorothy and a dog called Toto. If someones from California, I imagine they're a bronzed hunk who straps a surfboard to the top of their jeep and heads off for the beach everyday. If someones from Texas, I imagine them riding around a ranch wearing a stetson, chaps and spurs. If someones from Pennsylvania, I imagine they're an inbred hillbilly with goofy teeth, a checked shirt, breeches and a shot gun.
Extending it further, if someones from Canada, I imagine they live in a log cabin, wear raccoon furs and travel around using a team of dogs and a sled.
Do any of these stereotypes have any basis in fact? Without getting too personal, do people here recognise themselves as being any of the above (or other people on AI as being any of the above)? Have modern communications, including the internet, resulted in people losing their individuality, or didn't it exist in the first place?
Thanks for any replies.
Comments
<strong>If someones from Pennsylvania, I imagine they're an inbred hillbilly with goofy teeth, a checked shirt, breeches and a shot gun.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I think you have us confused with West Virginia
Much of Kansas (and Iowa, where I am) is in fact farmland, but someone from Kansas could be from, say, Lawrence, which is a beautiful college town with a good arts scene. California is so enormous that it comprehends the stereotypical image, and also mountains, high desert, cold, rainy climates, forests, high mountains, and just about anything else you can think of. I know a couple in California who live way out in the mountains and take monthly shipments of propane so that they can generate their own electricity.
The town I'm in, despite being in Iowa, has one of the highest concentrations of PhD's in the country, and consistently places among the top three places in the country for gays and lesbians to live in. It also has a thriving and completely outsized music scene. There are honest-to-goodness sand dunes in the southwestern corner of the state, despite the lack of a desert.
On the other hand, someone from New York could be from a small farm town upstate. You can cram a lot of variety into a state 500 miles across.
Texas is also immense enough that, although there are ranches, pickup trucks and ten-gallon hats, you won't find too many in, say, Austin.
I'd say that the general falsehood of regional stereotypes has more to do with the fact that they're stereotypes than from any cultural genericization by the Internet. I would look at the culture industry (chains and media) first, but even those have not managed to take away much in the way of regional culture or character, or even aesthetics. They have mostly just made it so that if you want an identical experience regardless of your location, you have that option.
Add to that the fact that regions can overlap each other: For example, Iowa City has a particular culture that is quite different from the rest of Iowa (which is not to say that the rest of Iowa is a monoculture!) but there's no mistaking it for anything other than a Midwestern town.
[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
Thank you Monty Python
Ma and I are both originally from Pennsylvania.
I'ma not no hillybilly and Ma had'r choppers fixed months ago.
Actually the Amish are commonly used as a stereotype for the people of Pennsylvania.
<strong>Perhaps this should have gone in the Where You From thread, but I've probably left it a bit late, so I thought I'd ask it here.
As a non American who has never visited the USA, the impressions I get of people on AI are partly based on the State they live in, and American films I've seen in the past.
For example, if someones from Kansas, I imagine they live on a farm surrounded by wheat fields, with a sister called Dorothy and a dog called Toto. If someones from California, I imagine they're a bronzed hunk who straps a surfboard to the top of their jeep and heads off for the beach everyday. If someones from Texas, I imagine them riding around a ranch wearing a stetson, chaps and spurs. If someones from Pennsylvania, I imagine they're an inbred hillbilly with goofy teeth, a checked shirt, breeches and a shot gun.
Extending it further, if someones from Canada, I imagine they live in a log cabin, wear raccoon furs and travel around using a team of dogs and a sled.
Do any of these stereotypes have any basis in fact? Without getting too personal, do people here recognise themselves as being any of the above (or other people on AI as being any of the above)? Have modern communications, including the internet, resulted in people losing their individuality, or didn't it exist in the first place?
Thanks for any replies.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm from Indiana. Flat land. Mostly corn fields, and woodsy areas. Few major rivers. Lots of highways criss crossing. Largest employer is auto industry (I think). One large city in the center, Indy.
Most people sound a little southernish in dialect. In my small town, the auto industry was king. Mostly whites, few blacks, fewer hispanics, very few asians. Most people from my hometown, because they work for the auto industry, drive the latest, greatest cars/trucks. Most are christian in faith. There are no other faith's buildings, as far as I know. That does not mean that there are not Jewish, or others in town, but I don't know where they'd practice their faith.
One high school. My class size was 400. Basketball as a sport is king. High Schools in the area have basketball courts that approach seating capacity of 10,000 people. And, this time of years it's a fervor pitch, being "Sectional" or tourney time. Much talk about HS basketball.
My HS has over the years produced (from my class) a current head coach of division I basketball (big ten), recent CEO of AT&T, a four or five star General, the inventors of the icicle christmas lights made recently popular, captain of Notre Dame's football team (also my class). It has played host to Dan Quayle (Vice Pres), the First Lady, Harlem Globetrotters, Recently to the cast from the Andy Griffith show, and other things. It is also one place in the US where at one time a murder trial could not result in the death penalty (as noted by Johnny Carson one night) because that was the stipulation by the donor of the land/courthouse.
It has a non-tax supported fire department. All from contributions. And pretty good at that.
I can't begin to describe the common citizen in any stereotypical way. There are fat and skinny people. Well, read and not so well read. Mostly hard working. Nice once you get to know them types. Slow drivers, IMO. A good amount smoke tobacco products. It's far from a dry town (alcohol wise). Economy is hurting just like everywhere. Most kids grow up and leave for other opportunities. Housing is cheap. Good water and waste water treatment plants.
Many parades, many are patriotic and festive. Though, not as interesting as big towns, but you know the people in the parade. Not really a big violence problem. Not a place most people would visit if not for friends or relatives. No real tourist attractions.
Golf is also a big thing men enjoy getting out and doing. They have some good medical facilities, and some higher-learning opportunities. Sledding in the winter is big for the kids. No hills large enough for skiing. Many people like toys like off-road motorcycles, and 4 wheelers. No uber-wealthy, except for maybe the ex-CEO of AT&T. Not a big poverty problem like some larger cities. I'm sure some people are hurting in this downturn, though.
How's that?
<strong>
I think you have us confused with West Virginia
Unlike yours -->
[quote]Originally posted by Amorph:
<strong> Much of Kansas (and Iowa, where I am) is in fact farmland, but someone from Kansas could be from, say, Lawrence, which is a beautiful college town with a good arts scene. California is so enormous that it comprehends the stereotypical image, and also mountains, high desert, cold, rainy climates, forests, high mountains, and just about anything else you can think of. I know a couple in California who live way out in the mountains and take monthly shipments of propane so that they can generate their own electricity.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's quite an eye opener. I guess that's why only a relatively small percentage of Americans travel abroad. They have no need to, as they have all possible environments (and cultures) in their own country, or even their own state.
[quote]Originally posted by MrBillData:
<strong>
Ma and I are both originally from Pennsylvania.
I'ma not no hillybilly and Ma had'r choppers fixed months ago.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[quote]Originally posted by JRC:
<strong>
How's that?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Wow, I feel I've known the place all my life
I guess that's what I imagine middle America to be like, what with basketball being a major sport and patriotic parades taking place etc.
[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: RodUK ]</p>
"America is the land of the brave, and the home of the free.
- a man is arrested for wearing a t-shirt with the wording: give peace a chance. yes, he was released later, only after the mall owners dropped the charges. but WHY DID THE POLICE ARREST HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE.
- pervasive easedropping in all forms.
- now, all persons, including naturalized american citizens can be held incommunacado for weeks, months. there is no trial, no habeas corpus, no arraignment.
now america is at war. and you know what, maybe some of the above is ok. but, the sterotype that americans have is that america is the best, and that none of this goes on. that in america a person is presumed innocent until proven guilty. bush and osama have changed all that.
usamericans: wake up to what is happening. there are alternative ways to deal with all this terror aimed at it. drop yr stereotypes that islam is out to get you. work with the un and our allies. work slowly and more resolutely to crush the terrorists. do not sacrifice yr cherished and truely special ideals for an attempt at a quick win. you will fail. do not allow bush to trample what yr fathers and grandfathers fought hard to protect.
does america think that it can win wwIII by itself?
you would think that since america is a member of nato that france and germany would come to our mutual aid since america was so brutally attacked.
bush was quoted in a usa press article as saying that GOD had told him that he was right. that this war was right.
in other words, those of us who thought that he was going after iraq because his daddy had failed, and for the oil, we are actually wrong. we didnt know that GOD had told him he was right.
oh...
[quote]For example, if someones from Kansas, I imagine they live on a farm surrounded by wheat fields, with a sister called Dorothy and a dog called Toto.<hr></blockquote>
Here there is some truth. Kansas is a farming state which produces wheat. They also have some very pretty sunflower fields. It is very much rural in a way that most of Europe isn't. Kansas has 2.5 million people according to my atlas but is 213,000 square km. For comparison England has 131,000 square km, 2/3 as much land but 48 million people. So you can see how with such smaller population densities we can have vast rural and agricultural lands. Europe on the whole has slightly more land than the US with 3 times the population.
[quote]If someones from California, I imagine they're a bronzed hunk who straps a surfboard to the top of their jeep and heads off for the beach everyday.<hr></blockquote>
California is large enough to have a vast mix. You have massive urban areas in LA and SF, large empty deserts in SoCal, 4000 meter mtns inland, a huge stretch of coast, volcanoes etc. Likewise for the people, you find all sorts. Unfortunately, none of them know how to drive.
[quote]If someones from Texas, I imagine them riding around a ranch wearing a stetson, chaps and spurs.<hr></blockquote>
THere are of course some cowboys still out there. Although honestly you would find more cowboys % wise IMO in Wyoming, Montana, and some other sparsely populated states than in Texas. Texas, does have a rural and ranch aspect no doubt, on the other hand it has massive modern metropolises in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin, El Paso, etc.
[quote]If someones from Pennsylvania, I imagine they're an inbred hillbilly with goofy teeth, a checked shirt, breeches and a shot gun.<hr></blockquote>
As others have said, you've mismatched the state and stereotype. That is the Appalachian stereotype and would be more appropriate for West Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia etc. Are there some ass backwards mountain people? Yep. Better believe it. Maybe not quite Beverly Hillbillies quality rednecks but they are out there. Of course, they are a relatively small segment of the population as well.
[quote]Extending it further, if someones from Canada, I imagine they live in a log cabin, wear raccoon furs and travel around using a team of dogs and a sled.<hr></blockquote>
There is a little bit of that in Canada still, in the NW Territories and Nunavat. Getting back to size and population again, Canada is just a shade smaller than Europe and a little bit larger than the US but has a population 1/10 of the US's, and 1/30 of Europe's. Most of Canada is vast expanses of de facto wilderness. But 90% of the people live in the tropical
[quote]Do any of these stereotypes have any basis in fact?<hr></blockquote>Naturally many are false. I know many Europeans are surprised to find that we don't all dress like on MTV but that most people actually wearing boring slacks and dress shirts or polos or what have you rather than something out of an Eminem video or Nike commercial. But there is some truth in some. There are cultural differences among various areas. And there are a variety of different ethnicities and religions, to some extent greater than Europe. The US is a large place, 10 million square km and 300 million people. That's enough for a decent amount of variety. I went tend to discount most of all those stereotypes that are seen in TV. American TV is mostly stupid shite of the shitiest order. But why not visit the US to find out? Who knows what you would find out.
[quote]That's quite an eye opener. I guess that's why only a relatively small percentage of Americans travel abroad. They have no need to, as they have all possible environments (and cultures) in their own country, or even their own state.<hr></blockquote> That's one part of it. Also we are somewhat insulated by the two oceans. Additionally, the most common standard for Americans is that we only get two weeks of vacation a year which limits our oppurtunities to travel. Perhaps most importantly geography plays a large role. Aside from Canada, I would have to travel 2500 km to get from Seattle to another country, specifically Mexico. Aside from Canada and Mexico, I would have to travel halfway around the world to get to Asia, nearly halfway to get to Europe, slightly less but still on the order of 7000 km to get to South America and little less to get to the Carribean. That means I can't drive there and I have to take an expensive transcontinental flight. Naturally those logistics limit the frequency and affordability of traveling abroad. Whereas someone in say Germany can say take a briefer trip to Poland, France, Netherlands, Belgium etc etc with the same ease htat I might take one to Oregon or California or Montana. Now we are talking cheap airfare or a days drive, only part of a day on a plane etc. Much more viable. There are probably 40 countries within 4000+ km of Berlin; there are basically 2 within that distance from Seattle. The layout is just all different.
enjoy yr new found status while it lasts.
but, be smart, have yr children start to learn Chinese, now.
US 9,159,000
Canada 9,976,000
Mexico 1,973,000
Albania 29,000
Belgium 31,000
Bulgaria 111,000
Croatia 57,000
Cyprus 9,000
Czech R. 79,000
Denmark 43,000
England 131,000
Finland 337,000
France 544,000
Germany 357,000
UK 244,000
Greece 132,000
Hungary 93,000
Iceland 103,000
Ireland 70,000
Italy 301,000
Latvia 64,000
Lithuania 65,000
etc
Some US states mentioned in this thread:
California 411,000
Indiana 94,000
Iowa 146,000
Kansas 213,000
Pennsylvania 117,000
Texas 691,000
So you can see for example that in terms of land size California is larger than Germany, Texas is larger than France, Indiana is comparable to Hungary, Iowa is a tad larger than England, Pennsylvania is about hte same as Bulgaria, Kansas is as large as Greece and Ireland combined etc. All of Europe is less than half of the three large North American countries in size. The New World remains fairly vast and relatively unpopulated.
<strong>"we finally kill the stereotype of the blonde-haired-blue-eyed california boys and girls! "
enjoy yr new found status while it lasts.
but, be smart, have yr children start to learn Chinese, now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your writing is annoying. :eek:
I have a special power adapter for my iBook that gets its electricity from my horse's ass as I ride the range. I have an enhanced AirPortExtreme base station antenna on top of my grain silo so I can get the latest cattle prices from the farthest ends of my range.
Race is another thing. You might not even know it in Europe but within 50 years the Hispanic population of the US will be as large as that of the entire population of almost any country in Europe save Germany and maybe France (and Russia if you want to consider their entire population European). And the Asian population is over 10 million as well now IIRC. Of course, that might not be readily apparent if you just paid attention to American politics and media.
[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: ColanderOfDeath ]</p>
If you can't make love to it you want to kill it. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
<strong>
If someones from Texas, I imagine them riding around a ranch wearing a stetson, chaps and spurs. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Stereotype: something confirming to a fixed or general pattern; esp: a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group that represents an oversimplified opinion, affective attitude, or uncritical judgment.
I grew up in a small Texas town--40 people in my entire graduating class. And some of the stereotypes grow out of reality. I don't recall anyone owning a large ranch, but the cowboy boots weren't just for show. And every year the FFA (Future Farmers of America) castrated calves and fried up the, well, you know. (I managed to avoid sampling that "delicacy." :eek: ) But that is small town Texas. You get into Dallas, and the cowboy motif still exists, but it's mostly show. That and Texas is one large state. West Texas and east Texas might as well be different countries: not just different climates, but different cultures. East Texas is green and has much of a old South heritage. West Texas is flat (boy are we talking FLAT), dry and windy. (However, note that although a lot of old Western movies are supposed to be in Texas, theortically West Texas, most of them were actually shot in Arizona--West Texas is dry, but not quite a desert.)
[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: Fangorn ]</p>
Additionally, parts of SW Texas are part of the greater Chihuahuan desert ecosystem, even if they are different than the classical Sonoran school desert you tend to see in the movies they are still nevertheless desert.
[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: ColanderOfDeath ]</p>
<strong>
That's one part of it. Also we are somewhat insulated by the two oceans. Additionally, the most common standard for Americans is that we only get two weeks of vacation a year which limits our oppurtunities to travel. Perhaps most importantly geography plays a large role. Aside from Canada, I would have to travel 2500 km to get from Seattle to another country, specifically Mexico. Aside from Canada and Mexico, I would have to travel halfway around the world to get to Asia, nearly halfway to get to Europe, slightly less but still on the order of 7000 km to get to South America and little less to get to the Carribean. That means I can't drive there and I have to take an expensive transcontinental flight. Naturally those logistics limit the frequency and affordability of traveling abroad. Whereas someone in say Germany can say take a briefer trip to Poland, France, Netherlands, Belgium etc etc with the same ease htat I might take one to Oregon or California or Montana. Now we are talking cheap airfare or a days drive, only part of a day on a plane etc. Much more viable. There are probably 40 countries within 4000+ km of Berlin; there are basically 2 within that distance from Seattle. The layout is just all different.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This reminds me of something a college friend told me. He's from Connecticut originally (that's the northeast US, for those elsewhere) and when he was in France, people never failed to ask him whether he'd been to Los Angeles. No, he hadn't. When they expressed surprise at this - what could be more American than Los Angeles? - he would remind them that it was as far from his house to L.A. as it is from Paris to Tehran.
That's why we don't get around all that much.
I remember shocking people in England with the news that we'd driven up to Scotland for the weekend once. We were in Canterbury. It was only 500 miles or so, but the locals acted like we'd crawled to Japan on our hands and knees for lunch. It was funny.
[ 03-06-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
You mean there's a NEW ENgland?