UK does the right thing with fanatic
The mentality and hate this guy spews is not something the world will put up with. These people have no place in the western world.
One snip:
[quote]<strong>In one recording, Mr el-Faisal invoked the name of Mr bin Laden while justifying the use of weapons of mass destruction. In other recordings he called on Muslims to bomb Hindu businesses in retaliation for the Kashmir conflict. Jews were "rotten to the core", while the US was described as the "great Satan".<hr></blockquote></strong>
This MUST STOP.
Read the story:
<a href="http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1045511445327"; target="_blank">Link 01</a>
Again there is no place in the western world for these kind of people.
Fellowship
[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
One snip:
[quote]<strong>In one recording, Mr el-Faisal invoked the name of Mr bin Laden while justifying the use of weapons of mass destruction. In other recordings he called on Muslims to bomb Hindu businesses in retaliation for the Kashmir conflict. Jews were "rotten to the core", while the US was described as the "great Satan".<hr></blockquote></strong>
This MUST STOP.
Read the story:
<a href="http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1045511445327"; target="_blank">Link 01</a>
Again there is no place in the western world for these kind of people.
Fellowship
[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
Comments
[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: ZO ]</p>
<strong>These people have no place in the western world. ...Again there is no place in the western world for these kind of people. </strong><hr></blockquote>
What happened to grace, forgiveness & love? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
used and abused to justify madness while its supposed to just provide comfort and tolerance
get rid of religion and you get rid of 95% of conlicts on this world.
I'm just so damn sick of all this crap we have to hear every day.
Find peace with yourself and go forth. Live at let live.
[ 03-08-2003: Message edited by: agent302 ]</p>
[quote]<strong>In one recording, Mr el-Faisal invoked the name of Mr bin Laden while justifying the use of weapons of mass destruction. In other recordings he called on Muslims to bomb Hindu businesses in retaliation for the Kashmir conflict. Jews were "rotten to the core", while the US was described as the "great Satan".<hr></blockquote></strong>
That is not the problem. He wants to perceive that as the problem however the real problems are as stated below. Economic problems. Leadership failures within the governments of these peoples. This leads to radical abuse of religion for some. This abuse of religion leads to hate and killing.
The real root problems that lead to radical islam abuse:
[quote]<strong>"Depending on the sale of rugs, camels, and goats is not exactly a formula for economic success. Most of these nations need to build an economic infrastructure independent of oil revenues. Run by dictators who suck billions out of the economy for their personal use, the Middle East, like Africa, remains an economic basket case.
In a recent article posted on Middle East Times.com took notice of a report by Brad Bourland, the chief economist for Saudi American Bank who warned, "current strong conditions are masking chronic and apparent weaknesses in the economies of Arab countries. The combined gross domestic product of Arab countries stood at $540 billion; smaller than that of Mexico and one-twentieth of that of the US."
As the Arab League leaders gathered in Egypt, ostensibly to find an answer to the dilemma of Iraq, the answer they really need to find was how to deal with economies growing more slowly than their populations. Levels of unemployment in Arab nations are astronomical compared to other regions of the world. In Algeria, it is 26.4 percent; Oman's is 17.2 percent; Tunisia's is 15.6; Jordan's is 13 percent; and Saudi Arabia's is 13 percent.
This represents a lot of young men who have nothing better to do than join terrorist organizations promising to overthrow their own governments and impose Islamic rule as the answer to their problems. However, as we have seen in Iran, a whole generation of young, often unemployed, young Muslims have identified the source of the problem. It is their own Islamic government, run autocratically by their ayatollahs. <hr></blockquote></strong>
from <a href="http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=2550"; target="_blank">Link 01</a>
The real problem that leads to terror is leadership failures combined with "schools" that teach radical hate. The region needs true and honest education as well as an accountable leadership that incorporates a real economic system for their people to enjoy a standard of living that will keep them from falling into camps of hate.
Fellowship
<strong> The region needs true and honest education as well as an accountable leadership that incorporates a real economic system for their people to enjoy a standard of living that will keep them from falling into camps of hate. </strong><hr></blockquote>
FCiB, go join the "What if the US stopped giving aid thread" because this quote's on topic over there too.
then we would be off on solid footing
seriously though, I can't stand this guy or his ilk . . . I also think that Religion in all of its vehement manifestations is dangerous to freedom and the spirit
What am I going to do? petition to have you arrested because you relie so heavily on your experience when you sweated and swayed so long ago in that throng of mumbling Xtians, and were "slayed by god" an experience that you never let us forget - - - *never mind that paragraph*
um . . . don't you see similarities? just because you say 'peace' after you post about the good of war doesn't mean that your religious vehemence is really that different than his . . . should we outlaw you?
Fellowship
as for teh Mid-east, yes its clear that they have missed the entire industrial phase of growth and depend soley on oil . . . its like a diet of nothing but sugar . . . it will lead to a huge downer in a reletivly short time . .
They need better leadership and some serious investment in industry (they may also lack for real resouces)
I got it, lets invade them and send our ever trustworthy and humanitarian business leaders to do their thinking for them . . .heehee
Fellowship
<strong>The mentality and hate this guy spews is not something the world will put up with. These people have no place in the western world.
One snip:
</strong>
This MUST STOP.
][/QB]<hr></blockquote>
it never will stop...
sadly, there will always be hate in the world. it's a useless battle to fight
[ 03-09-2003: Message edited by: burningwheel ]</p>
<strong>religion is the bane of the earth
used and abused to justify madness while its supposed to just provide comfort and tolerance
get rid of religion and you get rid of 95% of conlicts on this world.
I'm just so damn sick of all this crap we have to hear every day.
Find peace with yourself and go forth. Live at let live.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It might appear that way, but that's just lazy thinking. Religion is both a popular scapegoat and crutch. When you got rid of religion (impossible, since new ones would soon fit in the vacated spaces) and still had all the problems you want to currently blame on religion, then what?
It has to do more with the sort of space religion occupies. It is a psychological matter, those who blame religion for troubles are very much like those who use religion to make troubles.
<strong>granted it wasn't my best . . but still you would never even begin to actually turn your gaze inward where such things are concerned . . .
as for teh Mid-east, yes its clear that they have missed the entire industrial phase of growth and depend soley on oil . . . its like a diet of nothing but sugar . . . it will lead to a huge downer in a reletivly short time . .
They need better leadership and some serious investment in industry (they may also lack for real resouces)
I got it, lets invade them and send our ever trustworthy and humanitarian business leaders to do their thinking for them . . .heehee</strong><hr></blockquote>
ppflam,
I expected better of you as well. To suggest there is no difference between a moderate and a fanatic is so unbecoming.
I expect that a man of your intelligence can tell the difference between strongly practicing religion in a democracy and a theocracy. For the fanatic there is no seperation between religion and those things of the world.
Fellowship has very strong religious views but because of the views of the U.S. and the Bible he will render unto Cesar/Rome that which belongs to it.
Just stop with the cheapshots, I come here looking for viewpoints and thoughts that are different from my own and also an elevated level of discussion.
As for Fellowship not looking inward perhaps it is because you arguing instead of teaching. Perhaps you promote a viewpoint instead of a discussion that will lead someone to a new conclusion, or best yet a more informed conclusion, regardless of whether it happens to agree with your own.
Nick
used and abused to justify madness while its supposed to just provide comfort and tolerance
get rid of religion and you get rid of 95% of conlicts on this world.<hr></blockquote>
i agree with the fisrt two lines (sort of) but not the last. i think religion is the excuse, not the cause. take out religion and people would just find another reason to hurt/murder people.
<strong>
To suggest there is no difference between a moderate and a fanatic is so unbecoming. </strong><hr></blockquote>
But Nick, when a 'moderate' says something like this:
"These people have no place in the western world."
you have to realize that the line between moderates and fanatics is quite blurred. Either that, or FCiB isn't a moderate.
depends on the depth of one's psychological investment in their beliefs. fellowship, quite obviously, isn't comfortable enough that he can avoid stripping down other beliefs in an effort to secure his own. (i'm not thinking about this particular case though)
you cannot depend on him or people like him, everything is a self affirming strategy.
I wouldn't say he's as dangerous as an islamic extremist, but he belongs to a large population of people who can be pursuaded to follow a more extreme path if the right circumstance and figure-heads leads them in that direction.
But this isn't a religious problem, religions, as others have mentioned, just sorta end up hosting this dance of insecurities because of the nature of what they do.
Secular regimes, communism, fascism, have inflicted as much pain as religion. In those cases, religion even acted as a touchstone for people. one thing of the underground christian churches throughout communist eastern Eurpoe and naturally of the Jews between the world wars.
Today's religious, we must wonder about them, what condition of our very comfortable lives requires this version of "faith"? But we must also wonder about the passionately anti-religious and their need to erase religion, or pretend that it can be erased and that such a manouver constitues a cure of our ills. I don't see it. Rather, I see this as very similar to the paranoia of those types of devout that must disparage other beliefs in order to build up their own 'faith.'
<strong>
ppflam,
I expected better of you as well. To suggest there is no difference between a moderate and a fanatic is so unbecoming.
I expect that a man of your intelligence can tell the difference between strongly practicing religion in a democracy and a theocracy. For the fanatic there is no seperation between religion and those things of the world.
Fellowship has very strong religious views but because of the views of the U.S. and the Bible he will render unto Cesar/Rome that which belongs to it.
Just stop with the cheapshots, I come here looking for viewpoints and thoughts that are different from my own and also an elevated level of discussion.
As for Fellowship not looking inward perhaps it is because you arguing instead of teaching. Perhaps you promote a viewpoint instead of a discussion that will lead someone to a new conclusion, or best yet a more informed conclusion, regardless of whether it happens to agree with your own.
Nick</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey Nick
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listen very carefully . . .
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are you listening?!?!
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ok then
.
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. %&^#$&*@^&#%$ OFF!!
We don't want to see new threads dealings with members (even famous) of these forums. I am quite aware that it was an attempt to explain behaviors of some people, but you can do the same thing without giving names.
Thanks for you understanding.
<strong>
But Nick, when a 'moderate' says something like this:
"These people have no place in the western world."
you have to realize that the line between moderates and fanatics is quite blurred. Either that, or FCiB isn't a moderate.</strong><hr></blockquote>
bunge just exactly how did you read it when I said "these people" ?
I am speaking of terrorists that spew one of several forms of hate ex: use WOMD. Do you have room for that? Kill non believers. Do you have room for that.
You are a master at the art of deception. You try your best to take me out of the context in which I was speaking.
I ask you why do you do that?
Or was this an honest mistake?
Fellowship
<strong>
bunge just exactly how did you read it when I said "these people" ?
I am speaking of terrorists that spew one of several forms of hate ex: use WOMD. Do you have room for that? Kill non believers. Do you have room for that.
You are a master at the art of deception. You try your best to take me out of the context in which I was speaking.
I ask you why do you do that?
Or was this an honest mistake?
Fellowship</strong><hr></blockquote>It's Sunday . . . and you've just come back obssessed with "deception"
was that the topic of the sermon today?
how we (Liberals of course) are being Deceived by the Great Deceiver?!?!?
Perhaps the Great Deceiver speaks out of the pulpit at Fellowship Church in Texas. . . . you never know for sure do you?!?
don't be throwing around that empty castigation, silly boy