Never met the man myself. I always wondered about those stories that said he was a prick. It's good to hear from someone who knew Steve personally so that the rest of us now know that they are true.
If you like some insight on Jobs check out folklore.org, it details the making of the original Mac under his leadership by the very people who made it.
From what I read about him, Jobs is no saint but he ain't Satan either.
He is just a very talented but nonetheless flawed man.
If you like some insight on Jobs check out folklore.org , it details the making of the original Mac under his leadership by the very people who made it.
From what I read about him, Jobs is no saint but he ain't Satan either.
He is just a very talented but nonetheless flawed man.
Less to do with SJ being out of the picture (though not entirely) and more to do with confidence in Tim Cook.
Whatever consumer perception was *during* SJ's tenure as CEO, consumers (who buy Apple's stuff) propelled the company to the most valuable company in tech, handed Apple record quarter after record quarter, and kept Apple in the highest customer satisfaction bracket. Apple even sold record numbers of their gear during a recession. And we're not talking about a universally licensed OS here, and a lot of Apple's products are priced higher than the competitions.
If that isn't a sign of a sterling reputation, I don't know what is.
So let's be cautious about what we infer from this survey. That is, there is no need to dispute the results, but rather, the question is how they might be interpreted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by frugality
T
My perception of Apple went up with Jobs' resignation. He's a brilliant guy, but also a prick. Let's hope future Apple leadership is more gracious.
So? How is SJ being a prick of any concern to me?? Why would any consumer give a sweet damn about that?That's between him and his staff. Who really cares how he acted when he a) achieved what he did and b) did it legally?
How are you troubled by SJ's attitude? Do you date him? Do you sleep with him?
The very qualities you criticize happen to be in fact quite desirable in his industry.
If being a prick helps him realize his vision, which in turn results in great products, then being a prick is part of the formula. More power to him. Those that can't handle it can leave. Those that can, will be a part of the great things Apple is doing.
It's .org. Here: folklore.org. I don't know what is at the .com address.
To believe it or not is up to you.
It's mostly written by Andy Hertzfeld and company, it gives a pretty "level" view of the man. Jobs was brilliant but could be an ass at times, but hey nobody is perfect.
It may be that Steve Jobs was vilified by Windows and Android users or rumors and decent in those communities and they believe APple is better now he has left. It would be a foolish perception, but likely a real one out there.
HARDLY FOOLISH. It is good to know that customers (and potential new customers) see Apple as better after Jobs leaves. It shows that they trust the COMPANY being able to stand on its own versus being propped up by Jobs.
Slang, Stay away Frugality. In high school he was usually locked in the janitor's room with duct tape around his mouth. The teacher's demanded it. Couldn't shut up.
It's .org. Here: folklore.org. I don't know what is at the .com address.
To believe it or not is up to you.
It's mostly written by Andy Hertzfeld and company, it gives a pretty "level" view of the man. Jobs was brilliant but could be an ass at times, but hey nobody is perfect.
And then there is Woz's autobiography ...
I know you didn't start this but I thought I wouldn't have to explain my point...
The point being is that we all have our detractors... but we also have our family, close friends etc. Jobs might be a hard man on the job but he has family, friends and co-workers who love him. You may have seen the photo of Steve leaning into his Wife... does that look like a hated man. Jonathan Ives is probably the closest guy to Jobs at Apple... he's worked with Steve for 14 years... if Steve was so difficult don't you think that Ives could find work elsewhere. Same goes for Peter Oppenheimer.
IMO, this makes perfect sense. Think of all those closeted Apple lovers who were on record of hating anything Apple can now save face and come over to the winning side by stating that it was actually Steve Jobs' tyranny that made them Apple haters.
Bill Gates was known for being just as much of a prick as Jobs was in his days as Microsoft CEO, but it's just that people are willing to give him a pass because of his philanthropic activities. I don't care how many hungry people he feeds. It doesn't change who he was during his days as Microsoft CEO, but I personally have nothing against who he was as Microsoft CEO. It's a part of the business world. Gates grew Microsoft into a technology titan. The United States has the strongest information technology base in the world. Microsoft is the lynchpin of that base and Bill Gates brought Microsoft to that level.
As I see it, the proof lies in the pudding. I have seen people on other forums say that Tim Cook should "rebuild the bridges" that Steve Jobs supposedly burned. The tone of that post sounds as though Tim Cook should clean up the mess that Jobs created. What I fail to understand is how anyone call Jobs' turnaround of Apple a mess. He took a company on the brink of death to within striking distance of the most valuable corporation in the world by market cap. How is that a mess? If Jobs burned any bridges, doesn't the fact that he made Apple's stock skyrocket count for anything?
Also, like I said, Bill Gates was known to be a major prick. Yet, did people stop buying Windows PCs? No. Why should it be any different for Apple? As a consumer, how does Steve Jobs being a prick affect the value that consumers get out of Apple products?
I know you didn't start this but I thought I wouldn't have to explain my point...
The point being is that we all have our detractors... but we also have our family, close friends etc. Jobs might be a hard man on the job but he has family, friends and co-workers who love him. You may have seen the photo of Steve leaning into his Wife... does that look like a hated man. Jonathan Ives is probably the closest guy to Jobs at Apple... he's worked with Steve for 14 years... if Steve was so difficult don't you think that Ives could find work elsewhere. Same goes for Peter Oppenheimer.
Anyway... I think you get my drift...
I'm not saying Jobs is a hated man. My view of him is actually pretty neutral.
He is no saint and has done some assholish things. But then who hasn't? I'm definitely not one to throw stones, glass house and all.
I basically see him as a very talented guy who like any normal person has his own set of hung ups and faults.
And here we have one of the clearest examples of modern Apple fandom.
If you don't know who Andy Hertzfeld is, you will be delighted to learn about the role he played in making our favorite OS.
Oh... for fuck's sake! I've read that page a million times... probably before you were born. My point being exactly that... it's a million tech years old.
Now... if somebody here knows Steve personally then please speak up... otherwise quit telling me about Steve Jobs personality traits.
for people to call steve jobs names and comment on his ethics without ever meeting him or speaking to him is the height of gall and hypocrisy and stupidity.
i would rather have a martha stewart or a leona helmsley, run my business making tough & unpopular decisions and also make money, than the hewlett packard group and the steve ballmer fumblers.
apple went down the tubes without steve jobs at the helm and it's doubtful that anybody, in their lifetime, will replicate the feat of watching phoenix rise from the ashes.
None of us having worked with Jobs, I doubt anyone here's opinion has any degree of accuracy. From reports and Jobs self criticism, it seems he was, in his early years, a cause of their decline. Was he the cause of their current success. Likely so in the particular sense that he put together a team, who expanded that team which created a culture, that created a business philosophy of minimality and excellence, and the expertise to execute this philosophy. Jobs was part of that team, but to give him all the credit is a mistake.
Nobody knows, though many claim otherwise, how and why excellence is achieved. Ask any Superbowl championship team. Repeats are infrequent. Randomness and luck likely play a significant role in achievement. Improving the chances that randomness will work in your favor may be the best we or Apple can do.
Just to be clear, I don't know the man personally, and no one's claiming he's evil through and through. He's not the devil, but he's no angel either.
I've read this bullshit piece before... no names... just quotes... but, as I pointed out before, I just love this quote:
"My boss, she's been with Apple since 1979..."
Since 1979!! Steve the tyrant should have canned her ass long ago!!
[on edit: why don't you go back and see where this all started... somebody calling Steve a prick. Now how would you know he's a prick unless you knew him personally. Pulling out stories from 27 years ago and fluff pieces about anonymous scared rabbits doesn't make a convincing argument (to me) that Steve "is" a prick. ]
Comments
Never met the man myself. I always wondered about those stories that said he was a prick. It's good to hear from someone who knew Steve personally so that the rest of us now know that they are true.
If you like some insight on Jobs check out folklore.org, it details the making of the original Mac under his leadership by the very people who made it.
From what I read about him, Jobs is no saint but he ain't Satan either.
He is just a very talented but nonetheless flawed man.
If you like some insight on Jobs check out folklore.org , it details the making of the original Mac under his leadership by the very people who made it.
From what I read about him, Jobs is no saint but he ain't Satan either.
He is just a very talented but nonetheless flawed man.
folklore.com... the name says it all.
I read it on the internet... it must be true.
Whatever consumer perception was *during* SJ's tenure as CEO, consumers (who buy Apple's stuff) propelled the company to the most valuable company in tech, handed Apple record quarter after record quarter, and kept Apple in the highest customer satisfaction bracket. Apple even sold record numbers of their gear during a recession. And we're not talking about a universally licensed OS here, and a lot of Apple's products are priced higher than the competitions.
If that isn't a sign of a sterling reputation, I don't know what is.
So let's be cautious about what we infer from this survey. That is, there is no need to dispute the results, but rather, the question is how they might be interpreted.
T
My perception of Apple went up with Jobs' resignation. He's a brilliant guy, but also a prick. Let's hope future Apple leadership is more gracious.
So? How is SJ being a prick of any concern to me?? Why would any consumer give a sweet damn about that?That's between him and his staff. Who really cares how he acted when he a) achieved what he did and b) did it legally?
How are you troubled by SJ's attitude? Do you date him? Do you sleep with him?
The very qualities you criticize happen to be in fact quite desirable in his industry.
If being a prick helps him realize his vision, which in turn results in great products, then being a prick is part of the formula. More power to him. Those that can't handle it can leave. Those that can, will be a part of the great things Apple is doing.
It's just that simple.
folklore.com... the name says it all.
I read it on the internet... it must be true.
It's .org. Here: folklore.org. I don't know what is at the .com address.
To believe it or not is up to you.
It's mostly written by Andy Hertzfeld and company, it gives a pretty "level" view of the man. Jobs was brilliant but could be an ass at times, but hey nobody is perfect.
And then there is Woz's autobiography ...
It may be that Steve Jobs was vilified by Windows and Android users or rumors and decent in those communities and they believe APple is better now he has left. It would be a foolish perception, but likely a real one out there.
HARDLY FOOLISH. It is good to know that customers (and potential new customers) see Apple as better after Jobs leaves. It shows that they trust the COMPANY being able to stand on its own versus being propped up by Jobs.
If he's a prick, you're a parrot.
Slang, Stay away Frugality. In high school he was usually locked in the janitor's room with duct tape around his mouth. The teacher's demanded it. Couldn't shut up.
He is bad news.
It's .org. Here: folklore.org. I don't know what is at the .com address.
To believe it or not is up to you.
It's mostly written by Andy Hertzfeld and company, it gives a pretty "level" view of the man. Jobs was brilliant but could be an ass at times, but hey nobody is perfect.
And then there is Woz's autobiography ...
I know you didn't start this but I thought I wouldn't have to explain my point...
The point being is that we all have our detractors... but we also have our family, close friends etc. Jobs might be a hard man on the job but he has family, friends and co-workers who love him. You may have seen the photo of Steve leaning into his Wife... does that look like a hated man. Jonathan Ives is probably the closest guy to Jobs at Apple... he's worked with Steve for 14 years... if Steve was so difficult don't you think that Ives could find work elsewhere. Same goes for Peter Oppenheimer.
Anyway... I think you get my drift...
As I see it, the proof lies in the pudding. I have seen people on other forums say that Tim Cook should "rebuild the bridges" that Steve Jobs supposedly burned. The tone of that post sounds as though Tim Cook should clean up the mess that Jobs created. What I fail to understand is how anyone call Jobs' turnaround of Apple a mess. He took a company on the brink of death to within striking distance of the most valuable corporation in the world by market cap. How is that a mess? If Jobs burned any bridges, doesn't the fact that he made Apple's stock skyrocket count for anything?
Also, like I said, Bill Gates was known to be a major prick. Yet, did people stop buying Windows PCs? No. Why should it be any different for Apple? As a consumer, how does Steve Jobs being a prick affect the value that consumers get out of Apple products?
I know you didn't start this but I thought I wouldn't have to explain my point...
The point being is that we all have our detractors... but we also have our family, close friends etc. Jobs might be a hard man on the job but he has family, friends and co-workers who love him. You may have seen the photo of Steve leaning into his Wife... does that look like a hated man. Jonathan Ives is probably the closest guy to Jobs at Apple... he's worked with Steve for 14 years... if Steve was so difficult don't you think that Ives could find work elsewhere. Same goes for Peter Oppenheimer.
Anyway... I think you get my drift...
I'm not saying Jobs is a hated man. My view of him is actually pretty neutral.
He is no saint and has done some assholish things. But then who hasn't? I'm definitely not one to throw stones, glass house and all.
I basically see him as a very talented guy who like any normal person has his own set of hung ups and faults.
And here we have one of the clearest examples of modern Apple fandom.
If you don't know who Andy Hertzfeld is, you will be delighted to learn about the role he played in making our favorite OS.
Oh... for fuck's sake! I've read that page a million times... probably before you were born. My point being exactly that... it's a million tech years old.
Now... if somebody here knows Steve personally then please speak up... otherwise quit telling me about Steve Jobs personality traits.
for people to call steve jobs names and comment on his ethics without ever meeting him or speaking to him is the height of gall and hypocrisy and stupidity.
i would rather have a martha stewart or a leona helmsley, run my business making tough & unpopular decisions and also make money, than the hewlett packard group and the steve ballmer fumblers.
apple went down the tubes without steve jobs at the helm and it's doubtful that anybody, in their lifetime, will replicate the feat of watching phoenix rise from the ashes.
None of us having worked with Jobs, I doubt anyone here's opinion has any degree of accuracy. From reports and Jobs self criticism, it seems he was, in his early years, a cause of their decline. Was he the cause of their current success. Likely so in the particular sense that he put together a team, who expanded that team which created a culture, that created a business philosophy of minimality and excellence, and the expertise to execute this philosophy. Jobs was part of that team, but to give him all the credit is a mistake.
Nobody knows, though many claim otherwise, how and why excellence is achieved. Ask any Superbowl championship team. Repeats are infrequent. Randomness and luck likely play a significant role in achievement. Improving the chances that randomness will work in your favor may be the best we or Apple can do.
He did, at folklore.com
It seems none of the current employees are willing to risk their jobs going on the record with their names:
http://www.businessinsider.com/apple...-return-2009-8
Just to be clear, I don't know the man personally, and no one's claiming he's evil through and through. He's not the devil, but he's no angel either.
I've read this bullshit piece before... no names... just quotes... but, as I pointed out before, I just love this quote:
"My boss, she's been with Apple since 1979..."
Since 1979!! Steve the tyrant should have canned her ass long ago!!
[on edit: why don't you go back and see where this all started... somebody calling Steve a prick. Now how would you know he's a prick unless you knew him personally. Pulling out stories from 27 years ago and fluff pieces about anonymous scared rabbits doesn't make a convincing argument (to me) that Steve "is" a prick. ]
I always wondered about those stories that said he was a prick.
He wasn't always.
He wasn't always.
Chuck... my original reply to Frugality was sarcasm.