Isn't IOS fragmented since you can not run all of the IOS versions on all of the iPhone handset hardware versions (iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4)? My dad has a 1st gen iPhone, my daughter has a 3G, I've got a 3GS and my girlfriend has a 4. We all have different IOS versions, and we all have apps that we can't install and run from the Apples App Store.
It's not a problem for us, we have what we paid for we can run the IOS fragment that applies to each our respective flavors of iPhone handset. If we wanted to run on one of the other IOS fragments for some reason, say a hardware feature or a particular app that only runs on an IOS fragment higher than the one we are able to run, we would, if we could afford to, upgrade by purchasing a newer more current version of the iPhone hardware, like the new iPhone coming to Sprint next month hopefully.
PS. I don't care how fragmented IOS is, it still kicks Android Assets every which way.
PPS. I'm grateful for fragmentation, it's a sign of progress and innovation, I mean imagine no innovation, no fragmentation, no smartphone, maybe just old Nokia featureless phones with 3 line LCDs.
Anyways, if it stays in China, there will not be a chance in ever of a lawsuit. It will probably run on the best Chinese electronics copy-cats phones (http://en.meizu.com/)
Did you know that stores actually sell DvDs and CDs on Chinese labels in real stores in malls (vs. black market hawkers) of new releases, professionally and commercially packaged at 1/5 the price? I own some of them, and I never play them outside of China...
These and other items simply have a statement on them that says: "For sale and use in China only."
That apparently circumvents international patent and copyright laws.
Heck, Apple is having a hard time shutting down copying of the business at a whole store level.
When 1.3 billion people have wants and needs, what are you gonna do?
I am afraid you haven't got the point. Try to click on that link.
Even if I buy into your argument, Google's Android and Amazon's Android and quite likely the Baidu's Android will have identical API and application run all of them just fine, no matter how different the launcher applications look (the MotoBlur, SenseUI, TouchWiz, whatever else is completely irrelevant to application developer).
Google has already said they will not give the newest OS version to forked version of Android. How are they going to keep up with API's.
Quote:
iOS is as "fragmented" with iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 4, iPad Touch, iPad and iOS 1 through 5
That's always been a ridiculous argument. iOS is as fragmented as OS X on the various versions of Mac computers out in the world.
Apple gives clear documentation about what version of OS X will support which type of hardware.
Isn't IOS fragmented since you can not run all of the IOS versions on all of the iPhone handset hardware versions (iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4)?
No it's not because you can run apps from previous version (made for 3.0) on a 4.0 AND you can run iOS4 on a 3GS. You can't on the first gen because it will be too sluggish, not because some vendor decided that it won't support the phone anymore six months after release.
No it's not because you can run apps from previous version (made for 3.0) on a 4.0 AND you can run iOS4 on a 3GS. You can't on the first gen because it will be too sluggish, not because some vendor decided that it won't support the phone anymore six months after release.
You can't run IOS 4.x on a 3G either, or can you? hmmmm.....
Anyway what sucks is not being able to run apps developed for IOS 4.x on IOS 3.x only devices, analogous to Android users not getting updates for their handset and not being able to run new apps.
Well, I actually think some apps developed for iOS 3 run on iOS 4, and I know for a fact that vast majority of apps I use on iOS 4 run perfectly on iOS5. Plus iPhone 3GS runs iOS 4, etc. So not as fragmented as you make it out to be.
Well, I actually think some apps developed for Froyo will run on Gingerbread and I know for a fact that vast majority of apps I use on Gingerbread run perfectly on Ice Cream Sandwich. Plus Nexus One runs Gingerbread etc. So not as fragmented as you and DED make it out to be.
You can't run IOS 4.x on a 3G either, or can you? hmmmm.....
Anyway what sucks is not being able to run apps developed for IOS 4.x on IOS 3.x only devices, analogous to Android users not getting updates for their handset and not being able to run new apps.
iOS 4.2 is the limit for a 3G, with certain limitations. No multitasking, screen lock, home screen wallpaper, and Bluetooth keyboards.
Can this idiot stop writing about Android ? I it is poignant indeed to see how he cares about the tough life of the poor Android developer, who lives in this ugly bush full of these fragmentation animals and some pesky forkers in China make his life even more miserable, but guess what ?
Developers are not complaining. They have no problem to scale down the app if the particular feature or API is not available, as support for this is built right into the system. It is not that difficult to use it.
Or you eventually ignore the 5% of owners of really old systems, the same way iOS developers ignore the owners of original iPhone, or people who are out of luck with updates as they never connect to anything running iTunes and great, magical "discovery" of OTA updates is only coming in not yet released version of iOS.
How this is "preventing" to run modern apps is only clear to DED when he smokes that stuff only he has.
And the best part is the fragmentation is feature of Android, not its shortcoming.
Nice twist on a major problem for Google. This will limit the penetration of Android in China. The problem with Android is that there's no one phone that matters. So Chinese manufacturers can come up with their own. If they manage to get apps enough for this, Chinese will buy them.
But this won't really be Android any more. No more so than will be Amazon's tablet.
Nice twist on a major problem for Google. This will limit the penetration of Android in China. The problem with Android is that there's no one phone that matters. So Chinese manufacturers can come up with their own. If they manage to get apps enough for this, Chinese will buy them.
But this won't really be Android any more. No more so than will be Amazon's tablet.
Like the Meizu M9 which can access the "M" market and the Android market, but nowhere says it is an android phone.
No it's not because you can run apps from previous version (made for 3.0) on a 4.0 AND you can run iOS4 on a 3GS. You can't on the first gen because it will be too sluggish, not because some vendor decided that it won't support the phone anymore six months after release.
I'll second 4.0 being sluggish on a first-gen iPhone.
?
I kept it on mine because it's darn useful, but slow? Heck yes. Unusable for most people's desires.
I never quite understood this line of thinking. Isn't similar to saying that UNIX suffers from an inconsistent, fragmented experience for users as individual PC makers add their own proprietary layers, like Apple's OSX?
My point is, why would a Motorola phone user care whether or not Samsung has a different look and feel, any more than an OSX user would care that TRIX has a different look and feel? They each started as UNIX.
It's what killed Unix as a unified OS, which was the entire point to it. Programs became limited to the company who produced the OS fork and machine it ran on.
The same thing is happening to Android. At some point in time it will have evolved just as new species do, and there will be little or no congruence between them. Once that happens, they will be different OS's. No more Android. It won't be enough to say they're based on Android.. It would be like saying that an elephant and a mouse are both based on DNA.
So, the early pre ipad tablet looked nothing like an ipad but now they do. And both companies use a split keyboard that someone else invented. Your point is.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13
Not really sure why people keep posting that tablet image. How about this:
Baidu won't call their fork android, Grid (FusionGarage) doesn't call THEIR fork android, Neither does Barnes and Noble (Nook) and I doubt amazon will either.
Most "Fragmentation" issues are completely avoided with a fork because these products are not billed as the same thing. They don't share a common app store, they're not called the same thing, in Baidu's case it's in a completely different market.
The average user doesn't buy a nook and then complain that she can't get all the apps on it she has on her phone because there is NO expectation that she would.
These devices won't have the android market, they won't have Google applications, they cannot (legally) have Google anywhere on the device, the advertisement, or the box, nor would baidu put Google there since it's a direct competitor.
This isn't a "Fragmentation" issue in any way that matters to the consumer.
You're right and wrong. They won't be Android as I just said in the above post. But people may expect they are. It depends on the publicity surrounding these things. If people think they're Android, then they will expect Android apps to work.
I don't know exactly what to expect from Amazon, even though I read the hands on article of their tablet. amazon does have it's own Android store, though it has a small selection of apps when compared to the Android market. But like Apple, Amazon is curating all the apps it allows in. So I would imagine that its tablet would be able to run these apps. The UI itself might not be enough of a barrier to that.
But if Baidu is changing the OS on a deeper level, then yes, Android apps might not be able to run.
What I see that I don't like, is that it looks pretty close to iOS, even duplicating the phone icon. The name itself is pretty darn close, and in a Western court, would never be allowed. Yi OS, vs iOS is going to be easily confused, and with Chinese manufacturers copying Apple's products, many people may even be thinking they are buying an iPhone.
OS X did NOT start as UNIX. OS X BECAME UNIX around OSX 10.5...You have a fundamental misgiving of what UNIX is, or how OS X was created. Apple did not fork off any codebase to create OS X (although they did include Open source components, on which they based their code, but it wasn't a fork).
And you are right that MotoBlur can succeed even if devs can't develop the same apps for HTC Sense, or Baidu's OS, like OS X succeeded, based solely on its own install base.
But at that point it makes no sense to class all those together. Unlike Android (which is an OS in itself) UNIX is a specification (like Bluetooth, for example). HP, Solaris, IBM, Apple, all have versions of UNIX whose codebases have little to nothing to do with each other, but meet the same specifications, so they are all certified as UNIX. In this case, Baidu and Amazon are using the ACTUAL Android code for their SW but once they fork it off, there need not be anything similar about the original Android OS and the Baidu fork, for example...
You're a bit confused here. OS X is based on Darwin, which is built from Free BSD, which is UNIX. For the first few years the windowing system that UNIX uses (X Window) was an optional download, but then because standard. Possibly that's what's got you confused.
Remember this came from NEXT which was Openstep, and all of this was based on UNIX.
It took Apple several years to get full certification for their version, and possibly that also has you confused. Most versions of UNIX were never certified, which didn't mean they weren't UNIX. The only certified versions, from what I remember are, OS X, AIX and Solaris.
As far as Android goes, it's a distro of Linux. There are many of those.
Comments
It's not a problem for us, we have what we paid for we can run the IOS fragment that applies to each our respective flavors of iPhone handset. If we wanted to run on one of the other IOS fragments for some reason, say a hardware feature or a particular app that only runs on an IOS fragment higher than the one we are able to run, we would, if we could afford to, upgrade by purchasing a newer more current version of the iPhone hardware, like the new iPhone coming to Sprint next month hopefully.
PS. I don't care how fragmented IOS is, it still kicks Android Assets every which way.
PPS. I'm grateful for fragmentation, it's a sign of progress and innovation, I mean imagine no innovation, no fragmentation, no smartphone, maybe just old Nokia featureless phones with 3 line LCDs.
Anyways, if it stays in China, there will not be a chance in ever of a lawsuit. It will probably run on the best Chinese electronics copy-cats phones (http://en.meizu.com/)
Did you know that stores actually sell DvDs and CDs on Chinese labels in real stores in malls (vs. black market hawkers) of new releases, professionally and commercially packaged at 1/5 the price? I own some of them, and I never play them outside of China...
These and other items simply have a statement on them that says: "For sale and use in China only."
That apparently circumvents international patent and copyright laws.
Heck, Apple is having a hard time shutting down copying of the business at a whole store level.
When 1.3 billion people have wants and needs, what are you gonna do?
Ikea copy: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle2116829/
Car copies: http://www.wordplop.com/2008/05/07/c...-walk-instead/
I am afraid you haven't got the point. Try to click on that link.
Even if I buy into your argument, Google's Android and Amazon's Android and quite likely the Baidu's Android will have identical API and application run all of them just fine, no matter how different the launcher applications look (the MotoBlur, SenseUI, TouchWiz, whatever else is completely irrelevant to application developer).
Google has already said they will not give the newest OS version to forked version of Android. How are they going to keep up with API's.
iOS is as "fragmented" with iPhone, iPhone 3G, iPhone 4, iPad Touch, iPad and iOS 1 through 5
That's always been a ridiculous argument. iOS is as fragmented as OS X on the various versions of Mac computers out in the world.
Apple gives clear documentation about what version of OS X will support which type of hardware.
Or as fragmented as Lion running on a PowerPC Mac.
Isn't IOS fragmented since you can not run all of the IOS versions on all of the iPhone handset hardware versions (iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4)?
Isn't IOS fragmented since you can not run all of the IOS versions on all of the iPhone handset hardware versions (iPhone, 3G, 3GS, 4)?
No it's not because you can run apps from previous version (made for 3.0) on a 4.0 AND you can run iOS4 on a 3GS. You can't on the first gen because it will be too sluggish, not because some vendor decided that it won't support the phone anymore six months after release.
No it's not because you can run apps from previous version (made for 3.0) on a 4.0 AND you can run iOS4 on a 3GS. You can't on the first gen because it will be too sluggish, not because some vendor decided that it won't support the phone anymore six months after release.
You can't run IOS 4.x on a 3G either, or can you? hmmmm.....
Anyway what sucks is not being able to run apps developed for IOS 4.x on IOS 3.x only devices, analogous to Android users not getting updates for their handset and not being able to run new apps.
Very soon, the only true Android phones will be made by Googorola.
The fragmentation will a nightmare for developers.
Businesses will be reluctant to standardize on such a fragmented platform
Time will tell.
Well, I actually think some apps developed for iOS 3 run on iOS 4, and I know for a fact that vast majority of apps I use on iOS 4 run perfectly on iOS5. Plus iPhone 3GS runs iOS 4, etc. So not as fragmented as you make it out to be.
Well, I actually think some apps developed for Froyo will run on Gingerbread and I know for a fact that vast majority of apps I use on Gingerbread run perfectly on Ice Cream Sandwich. Plus Nexus One runs Gingerbread etc. So not as fragmented as you and DED make it out to be.
You can't run IOS 4.x on a 3G either, or can you? hmmmm.....
Anyway what sucks is not being able to run apps developed for IOS 4.x on IOS 3.x only devices, analogous to Android users not getting updates for their handset and not being able to run new apps.
iOS 4.2 is the limit for a 3G, with certain limitations. No multitasking, screen lock, home screen wallpaper, and Bluetooth keyboards.
Can this idiot stop writing about Android ? I it is poignant indeed to see how he cares about the tough life of the poor Android developer, who lives in this ugly bush full of these fragmentation animals and some pesky forkers in China make his life even more miserable, but guess what ?
Developers are not complaining. They have no problem to scale down the app if the particular feature or API is not available, as support for this is built right into the system. It is not that difficult to use it.
Or you eventually ignore the 5% of owners of really old systems, the same way iOS developers ignore the owners of original iPhone, or people who are out of luck with updates as they never connect to anything running iTunes and great, magical "discovery" of OTA updates is only coming in not yet released version of iOS.
How this is "preventing" to run modern apps is only clear to DED when he smokes that stuff only he has.
And the best part is the fragmentation is feature of Android, not its shortcoming.
Nice twist on a major problem for Google. This will limit the penetration of Android in China. The problem with Android is that there's no one phone that matters. So Chinese manufacturers can come up with their own. If they manage to get apps enough for this, Chinese will buy them.
But this won't really be Android any more. No more so than will be Amazon's tablet.
Nice twist on a major problem for Google. This will limit the penetration of Android in China. The problem with Android is that there's no one phone that matters. So Chinese manufacturers can come up with their own. If they manage to get apps enough for this, Chinese will buy them.
But this won't really be Android any more. No more so than will be Amazon's tablet.
Like the Meizu M9 which can access the "M" market and the Android market, but nowhere says it is an android phone.
No it's not because you can run apps from previous version (made for 3.0) on a 4.0 AND you can run iOS4 on a 3GS. You can't on the first gen because it will be too sluggish, not because some vendor decided that it won't support the phone anymore six months after release.
I'll second 4.0 being sluggish on a first-gen iPhone.
?
I kept it on mine because it's darn useful, but slow? Heck yes. Unusable for most people's desires.
I never quite understood this line of thinking. Isn't similar to saying that UNIX suffers from an inconsistent, fragmented experience for users as individual PC makers add their own proprietary layers, like Apple's OSX?
My point is, why would a Motorola phone user care whether or not Samsung has a different look and feel, any more than an OSX user would care that TRIX has a different look and feel? They each started as UNIX.
It's what killed Unix as a unified OS, which was the entire point to it. Programs became limited to the company who produced the OS fork and machine it ran on.
The same thing is happening to Android. At some point in time it will have evolved just as new species do, and there will be little or no congruence between them. Once that happens, they will be different OS's. No more Android. It won't be enough to say they're based on Android.. It would be like saying that an elephant and a mouse are both based on DNA.
I thought this was appleinsider not androidinsider... Geesh!
but isn't ... apple inside ur android?
Not really sure why people keep posting that tablet image. How about this:
Before iPad:
iOS5 on iPad:
Baidu won't call their fork android, Grid (FusionGarage) doesn't call THEIR fork android, Neither does Barnes and Noble (Nook) and I doubt amazon will either.
Most "Fragmentation" issues are completely avoided with a fork because these products are not billed as the same thing. They don't share a common app store, they're not called the same thing, in Baidu's case it's in a completely different market.
The average user doesn't buy a nook and then complain that she can't get all the apps on it she has on her phone because there is NO expectation that she would.
These devices won't have the android market, they won't have Google applications, they cannot (legally) have Google anywhere on the device, the advertisement, or the box, nor would baidu put Google there since it's a direct competitor.
This isn't a "Fragmentation" issue in any way that matters to the consumer.
You're right and wrong. They won't be Android as I just said in the above post. But people may expect they are. It depends on the publicity surrounding these things. If people think they're Android, then they will expect Android apps to work.
I don't know exactly what to expect from Amazon, even though I read the hands on article of their tablet. amazon does have it's own Android store, though it has a small selection of apps when compared to the Android market. But like Apple, Amazon is curating all the apps it allows in. So I would imagine that its tablet would be able to run these apps. The UI itself might not be enough of a barrier to that.
But if Baidu is changing the OS on a deeper level, then yes, Android apps might not be able to run.
What I see that I don't like, is that it looks pretty close to iOS, even duplicating the phone icon. The name itself is pretty darn close, and in a Western court, would never be allowed. Yi OS, vs iOS is going to be easily confused, and with Chinese manufacturers copying Apple's products, many people may even be thinking they are buying an iPhone.
OS X did NOT start as UNIX. OS X BECAME UNIX around OSX 10.5...You have a fundamental misgiving of what UNIX is, or how OS X was created. Apple did not fork off any codebase to create OS X (although they did include Open source components, on which they based their code, but it wasn't a fork).
And you are right that MotoBlur can succeed even if devs can't develop the same apps for HTC Sense, or Baidu's OS, like OS X succeeded, based solely on its own install base.
But at that point it makes no sense to class all those together. Unlike Android (which is an OS in itself) UNIX is a specification (like Bluetooth, for example). HP, Solaris, IBM, Apple, all have versions of UNIX whose codebases have little to nothing to do with each other, but meet the same specifications, so they are all certified as UNIX. In this case, Baidu and Amazon are using the ACTUAL Android code for their SW but once they fork it off, there need not be anything similar about the original Android OS and the Baidu fork, for example...
You're a bit confused here. OS X is based on Darwin, which is built from Free BSD, which is UNIX. For the first few years the windowing system that UNIX uses (X Window) was an optional download, but then because standard. Possibly that's what's got you confused.
Remember this came from NEXT which was Openstep, and all of this was based on UNIX.
It took Apple several years to get full certification for their version, and possibly that also has you confused. Most versions of UNIX were never certified, which didn't mean they weren't UNIX. The only certified versions, from what I remember are, OS X, AIX and Solaris.
As far as Android goes, it's a distro of Linux. There are many of those.
but isn't ... apple inside ur android?
?.
Make sure you make sense when you respond.
Maybe you should slow down... slow like android.