Microsoft unveils Windows 8 tablet effort with Samsung prototype

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  • tenzotenzo Posts: 27member
    I'll pick one up when they drop the price down to $100.
  • roboduderobodude Posts: 273member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    My brain has been doing back-flips over this one recently!



    A lot of people (I was one) see it as a foregone conclusion that the iPad will become a full fledged PC replacement... but I'm just not that sure anymore.



    Windows 8 isn't quite what people see as "PC", but there are a bunch of features that set it apart from "media tablets". Stuff like the information rich and "alive" start screen, user profiles, side-by-side applications, app contracts and the ability to join Windows domains and of course the "classic desktop" app.



    As I think of the iPad adding this kind of functionality I can't help but wonder if they would completely alienate their core market.



    There also has to be some kind of performance penalty from adding in this kind of functionality, regardless of the promises delivered by Microsoft.



    Just look at the hatred directed toward Microsoft in this thread for including a "class Windows desktop" app on their tablet OS. I can't imagine these same people wouldn't be completely pissed off by an "OSX app" being included on the next iPad.



    Could it be possible that there are actually two separate markets here? i.e. those looking for a completely appliance-like "media tablet", and others looking for something a little bit "media tablet" but a little bit PC as well?



    I'm sure there are two markets and there may be overlap although Microsoft may be going about this the wrong way by having the overly complex Windows underneath the simplified interface. They'll need to work hard to make sure the Metro side is intuitive, otherwise Grandma, etc. will revert back to classic Windows and by SOL just like they are now.



    I wasn't thinking of features such as the ones you mentioned - in regards to profiles, I believe the iPad is a PC in the truest sense. 3 profiles on 16GB isn't practical right now. My missing features are the fact I can't use apps side by side, multi-tasking is a bit unintuitive too (gestures will help) and "typing and browsing" is not a good experience. Holes in apps include the fact that there's no passwording system on a per-app basis (for bank accounts) and not Apple's fault, but uploading to sites such as Facebook and Tumblr just aren't convenient (I'm talking photos). I think these are things that a "media tablet" should be able to do, and not even crossing into real productive stuff? yet!
  • jackthemacjackthemac Posts: 95member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post




    It would be great to have a cheap appliance to surf the 'web. But nothing is yet available.



    I get the feeling you have not used an iPod Touch or an iPad.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post


    It would also be great to have a single device that is both a full-on tablet and a full-on computer, depending on where and how you are using it. It looks like that is on the horizon.



    Yes, but Apple wisely see that you can't do both in a touch screen tablet. And judging by the device MS/Samsung are unwisely showing off, neither can they.



    If you want a 'full on' portable desktop experience, get a MacBook Air.

    If you want a tablet, get an iPad.



    Simples !
  • conradjoeconradjoe Posts: 1,887member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    A lot of people (I was one) see it as a foregone conclusion that the iPad will become a full fledged PC replacement...



    Not unless it can multitask. Not unless you can load the software of your choice onto it, rather than being restricted to a single vendor who refuses to stock entire categories. Not until it has mouse or trackpad functionality.



    It will continue to be what Apple allows it to be. An accessory device.
  • runner7775runner7775 Posts: 61member
    To those wondering why that Microsoft gave out an Intel based tablet at BUILD: The conference is primarily aimed at developers. It makes sense to give them a machine that can be used as a tablet and like a desktop. Windows on ARM, IIRC, will only be for tablets and will only support the tablet interface. They were just giving out a machine that can be used for developing for many different form factors.



    Regarding the quality of Windows 8 so far: It feels like a pre-beta to me. A lot seems missing. Performance is phenomenal, but a lot of things feel incomplete.
  • gatorguygatorguy Posts: 14,680member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jackthemac View Post


    I get the feeling you have not used an iPod Touch or an iPad. . .



    Or for the price of an iPod Touch you can get a Nook Color, which I'm finding is more capable than I expected. I even watched this past weekends FSU game on it live over wifi via ESPN3.
  • firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,499member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ConradJoe View Post


    Windows 8 runs faster than Windows 7 on weak hardware, according to many reviews.



    Memory requirements have dropped significantly. You can also see the CPU pretty much flat-lined.



    IMO Microsoft's biggest issue is disk space. The dev preview sucks up 7GB without all applications included (by comparison the iPad is 2GB with apps).



    The extra apps might push it up to 8GB for a standard installation. If it stays at that level it pretty much rules out 16GB Windows 8 tablets.



    In monetary terms it probably adds $20 or so to the price of every Windows 8 tablet.





  • 4miler4miler Posts: 24member
    There are two opposite paradigms, and depending on which one you're from, you'll either love or hate Windows 8 for tablet.



    Speaking as a Mac user since the 512K Mac, and being a Mac evangelist for all of that time -- I actually am enthusiastic about Windows 8 for tablet.



    Here's why.



    Apple has said that it aims for simplicity in its iPad, and that iPad is more for content-consumption than content creation.



    Therefore, if you're mostly a content-consumer -- a few emails, Facebook, photos, surfing the web -- then iPad is perfect for you, and your comments reflect that.



    For me, I am a content creator. I'm a writer, and I also run a business via internet. Most of the time I use my Mac for content creation. So I'm not tempted to get an iPad. My iPhone fulfils my mobile needs.



    There's not enough info for me to evaluate Windows 8 - but what I see makes me very interested. I'm the person who would have loved a fully blown OSX in a tablet format that I could work on the run, because that's my lifestyle.



    I can fully understand the teenie-bopper crowd who only use their computers for fun stuff -- but I don't think the teenie bopper crowd can understand that there is a whole different part of society out there that actually use their mobile gear for serious business and work - particularly content creation. (iPads are great in business for content consumption, as well).



    As a Mac users for decades, I am willing to see where Windows 8 goes. If it turns out to be good, I might wait for a year for Win 8 to stabilize, and then try running OSX and Win8 in parallel. All my data is cross-platform, in Dropbox, IMAP so I am not locked into one OS.
  • irelandireland Posts: 15,540member
    Windows 8 is trying to be both an iPad and a laptop, but does both of those things worse than either of them.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by island hermit View Post


    I'm not a big MS fan by any means but I'd put my money on this 50 to 1 horse. I've said it a few times before... Google doesn't have to worry about Apple... it has to worry about MS. jmho



    I'm not a betting man but there is a chance MS scrap this project before it is finalized, It wouldn't be the first time with such radical concepts from MS, especially with their pre beta strategy. What a contrast from the confidence Apple show whereby their products are totally secret until the public unveiling. It's as if this way MS can try out concepts and feel the reaction out without loosing face if they cancel the project. It is also a way of keeping die hard MS investors happy for the medium term.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by 4miler View Post


    There are two opposite paradigms, and depending on which one you're from, you'll either love or hate Windows 8 for tablet.



    Speaking as a Mac user since the 512K Mac, and being a Mac evangelist for all of that time -- I actually am enthusiastic about Windows 8 for tablet.



    Here's why.



    Apple has said that it aims for simplicity in its iPad, and that iPad is more for content-consumption than content creation.



    Therefore, if you're mostly a content-consumer -- a few emails, Facebook, photos, surfing the web -- then iPad is perfect for you, and your comments reflect that.



    For me, I am a content creator. I'm a writer, and I also run a business via internet. Most of the time I use my Mac for content creation. So I'm not tempted to get an iPad. My iPhone fulfils my mobile needs.



    There's not enough info for me to evaluate Windows 8 - but what I see makes me very interested. I'm the person who would have loved a fully blown OSX in a tablet format that I could work on the run, because that's my lifestyle.



    I can fully understand the teenie-bopper crowd who only use their computers for fun stuff -- but I don't think the teenie bopper crowd can understand that there is a whole different part of society out there that actually use their mobile gear for serious business and work - particularly content creation. (iPads are great in business for content consumption, as well).



    As a Mac users for decades, I am willing to see where Windows 8 goes. If it turns out to be good, I might wait for a year for Win 8 to stabilize, and then try running OSX and Win8 in parallel. All my data is cross-platform, in Dropbox, IMAP so I am not locked into one OS.



    Ironically, a Mac enthusiast is probably more likely to be impressed with this (tablet side) concept than a die hard XP user. The snag is they are not going to switch any more then you and I would for the opposite reasons.
  • swissmac2swissmac2 Posts: 216member
    As a writer I am surprised you haven't heard of Chapters for the iPad. Whenever I am away from the office eg in a waiting room for dentist or doctor and so on I can slip out my iPad, write a couple of paragraphs, and then go into the appointment or get off the tram and all the text is available as a text file which you can later format how you like.



    The more you stick into a Tablet, the more technology, memory, and storage you need. The more power you have, the shorter the battery life. To increase storage and memory and battery life costs money, so the device costs more. That's why it will be hard to displace the iPad - it sits right in the sweet spot of all of these things.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Windows 8 is trying to be both an iPad and a laptop, but does both of those things worse than either of them.



    I agree and it sounds just like a product design to please a focus group. The opposite approach Apple takes.
  • digitalclipsdigitalclips Posts: 15,320member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SwissMac2 View Post


    As a writer I am surprised you haven't heard of Chapters for the iPad. Whenever I am away from the office eg in a waiting room for dentist or doctor and so on I can slip out my iPad, write a couple of paragraphs, and then go into the appointment or get off the tram and all the text is available as a text file which you can later format how you like.



    The more you stick into a Tablet, the more technology, memory, and storage you need. The more power you have, the shorter the battery life. To increase storage and memory and battery life costs money, so the device costs more. That's why it will be hard to displace the iPad - it sits right in the sweet spot of all of these things.



    Agreed. The more I use my iPad 2 the more amazed I am at its potential. The battery life is simply astounding compared with my new MBP i7. The break through for me in using the iPad 2 in conjunction with the MBA was the discovery of a small iPad app called GoodReader which is the 'can opener' of all files.
  • firefly7475firefly7475 Posts: 1,499member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robodude View Post


    ...and not Apple's fault, but uploading to sites such as Facebook and Tumblr just aren't convenient (I'm talking photos).



    You need to look at Windows 8 app contracts. I'll try to find a good example for you. It goes way beyond this, but a simple example would be...



    Say you have Flickr, Instagram and Tumblr metro apps installed and all these apps support the Windows 8 data sharing contract.



    When you open the Instagram app and click on "Load Photo" you are presented with not just the photos that are on your PC, but also the photos from every installed app that support the "photo loading" contract.



    From this screen you select a photo from the installed Flickr app which is loaded into Instagram. Once you've edited the photo you can select the "share" icon (this isn't part of the Instagram app but Windows 8 itself) and you are presented with applications that implement the "photo sharing" contract.



    From this list you can select Tumblr which launches the Tumblr photo sharing app section side-by-side with Instagram. You enter some details, post the photo and you are returned to the Instagram app.



    All of these apps are totally unaware of each other, they simply implement various data contracts that allows Windows 8 to seamlessly mesh them together.



    Like I said before, it actually goes way beyond this, but I'm sure you get the idea.
  • nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    So this was a developer pre-view of a pre-release product in pre-beta? Okey dokey then!
  • gwlaw99gwlaw99 Posts: 134member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post


    Oh I didn't know it was free to everyone. I'll have to give it a go tonight.



    Here is the problem for apple. If this can replace a desktop, laptop and have good tablet, are people going to want to pay 500 dollars for another device?
  • roboduderobodude Posts: 273member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post


    You need to look at Windows 8 app contracts. I'll try to find a good example for you. It goes way beyond this, but a simple example would be...



    Say you have Flickr, Instagram and Tumblr metro apps installed and all these apps support the Windows 8 data sharing contract.



    When you open the Instagram app and click on "Load Photo" you are presented with not just the photos that are on your PC, but also the photos from every installed app that support the "photo loading" contract.



    From this screen you select a photo from the installed Flickr app which is loaded into Instagram. Once you've edited the photo you can select the "share" icon (this isn't part of the Instagram app but Windows 8 itself) and you are presented with applications that implement the "photo sharing" contract.



    From this list you can select Tumblr which launches the Tumblr photo sharing app section side-by-side with Instagram. You enter some details, post the photo and you are returned to the Instagram app.



    All of these apps are totally unaware of each other, they simply implement various data contracts that allows Windows 8 to seamlessly mesh them together.



    Like I said before, it actually goes way beyond this, but I'm sure you get the idea.



    Sounds good, as does the pane for split screen apps. Contracts are a great idea, but the thing with showing it off so early means it's difficult to imagine it fully realised. That said, looking forward to see what developers do with it. With "old Windows" to fall back on, how can Microsoft get them to develop proper Metro apps?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post


    I'm not a betting man but there is a chance MS scrap this project before it is finalized, It wouldn't be the first time with such radical concepts from MS, especially with their pre beta strategy. What a contrast from the confidence Apple show whereby their products are totally secret until the public unveiling. It's as if this way MS can try out concepts and feel the reaction out without loosing face if they cancel the project. It is also a way of keeping die hard MS investors happy for the medium term.



    I wouldn't say it's a confidence thing - just that Microsoft have to cater to a diverse crowd. Which other projects have been scrapped, in line with the pre-Beta strategy? I'm foreseeing plenty of changes but odds of scrappage are quite low.
  • proximityeffectproximityeffect Posts: 182member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post


    Or for the price of an iPod Touch you can get a Nook Color, which I'm finding is more capable than I expected. I even watched this past weekends FSU game on it live over wifi via ESPN3.





    LOL Is that you, DaHarder?
  • addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,667member
    So here's what I'm not getting, maybe someone can clarify for me: do the same apps run under both classic Windows 8 and Metro? That is, can I open a file in "Windows" while docked, then take off and continue to work on the same file within a touch friendly interface?
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