Android was made for these kind of phones. This is a Google prototype Android phone. It was only after the iPhone came out, that Touch ever entered their minds.
I think it may have been the LG Prada that inspired them. It was announced before the iPhone.
You're acting as if you never heard anybody mention anything about Android lag before.
Wrong again!
He's acting like he's never heard anybody mention anything about what you said - that there are seconds of lag between touch and response when using Android.
I've developed for iOS and at a lesser extent Android.
One thing Andrew Munn forgot to mention is that unlike iOS, Android uses a CPU taxing "Garbage Collector" to manage variables.
iOS uses Reference Counting which takes away the task of managing variables from the CPU. Android has to "Garbage Collect" unused data which hogs the CPU till the operation is done.
You might want to do a restore. iOS5 runs silky smooth on both of my iPhone 4 handsets and thats with lots of apps running, including Co-Pilot in the background.
I agree. I have ios5 on my IP4, runs perfect. I also have helped two friends update their 3GS' to ios5. On those, it definitely helped to do a full restore from scratch. What also helps is to uncheck selections you don't need in Spotlight Search. I only need to search Contacts, so I unchecked everything else. Adjusting Notifications, Locations and Push on email and Cloud makes a big difference too. Turn off what you don't use, set mail and cloud to "fetch" if you don't need push. Afterwards, do two consecutive hard-resets to clear the memory caches and you are set. The 2 friends I helped with os5 on their 3GS now have buttery-smooth running smartphones.
Apple invented the touchscreen UI. Android just try to steal it. Jobs was so mad that he would launch a thermonuclear war.
That's just ridiculous. Apple only 'invented' the iOS touchscreen UI. Touchscreens had been around (with UIs underneath them) since the 80's. The HP-150 is likely one of the first personal computers incorporating a touchscreen interface.
Also, despite what many people would like to think, if Google is so desperately trying to steal the iOS UI than why is it so "crappy and laggy"? The UI philosophy is so drastically different it's difficult to understand why people still try to preach that Google has stolen anything at all. Android UI is flexible, customizable and dynamic (themes, widgets, custom launchers, etc). iOS UI is completely rigid and static (no themes, no widgets, one size fits all). The performance problems in Android are in some part related to this fact, as the overhead created in the Android environment is significant.
Apple invented the touchscreen UI. Android just try to steal it. Jobs was so mad that he would launch a thermonuclear war.
If you believe what you say, then you must also believe that after inventing the touchscreen UI, Apple failed to patent the touchscreen UI. That, despite Steve proclaiming that they have patented the hell out of the iPhone. Seemingly, you believe that despite attending to many patents on the iPhone, Apple neglected to file for the most basic and valuable one of all - the touchscreen UI.
Fact is, the touchscreen UI was in use for years before the iPhone used it. Fact is, Apple did NOT invent the touchscreen UI. Fact is, Apple copied the use of the touchscreen UI.
That's just ridiculous. Apple only 'invented' the iOS touchscreen UI. Touchscreens had been around (with UIs underneath them) since the 80's. The HP-150 is likely one of the first personal computers incorporating a touchscreen interface.
I agree with you that Apple didn't invent touchscreen but, from your own HP-150 Wiki link:
"The screen is not a touch screen in the strict sense, but a 9" Sony CRT surrounded by infrared emitters and detectors which detect the position of any non-transparent object on the screen."
I agree with you and Android was obviously a rush job upon release (and suffers from it today) but from a business standpoint I feel they had no choice but to release early in order to even compete against the new juggernaut (Apple)
From a business standpoint Apple is off-and-on the biggest company in the world, and they took the time to do it right the first time.
Little late to the comments... Did anyone else immediately flash back to Windows 3.11, 95, 98, and finally 2000 and XP when he was talking about a re-write to fix the issues would require significant legacy support?
The main reasons why 2000 and XP (for their time) was so bloated was because they had legacy support going back to supporting 16-bit applications. Microsoft is slowly learning to let go of this support (although it's still bloated), but if Google goes down this road of supporting older apps then it's never really going to fix any of the current problems because of bloat.
For better or worse Apple has done a great job with managing legacy devices and applications. Sometimes that means forcing dev's to rewrite their apps, but it keeps progress moving forward.
As long as Android vendors put their own GUI on Android it can never be as fast as iOS. The evidence have been there all time. The single core A4 800mhz was only 3-8% slower then Tegra 2 dual core 1ghz. The dual core A5 beats cod core Tegra 3 in almost all tests.
Google have to control the graphic layer to be able to accelerate it with GPU/SIMD/NEON/Altivec. Apple have 10 year experience of accelerating OSX with Quartz extreme.
I think that Googles own "motorola" phones will be the ones that gets all these feautures. Here Google can choose the best SoC (something with PowerVR6) and really spank Apple.
But Apple have a huge advantage since they design their of SoCs with PA Semi. The A4-5 have been best in class even if they where clocked lover. Instead of raw mhz they used better memory bandwidth and NEON. This is also the reason why A5 is 30% larger then Tegra2.
Tegra3 is interesting. I wonder what Nvidias price on they are. The Tegra 3 is almost twice as large as Tegra 2 = it costs more then twice to manufacture. Tegra 2 cost 25 dollar. If Nvidia sells Tegra 3 at that price, they have taken a big hit in profit to gain market share. Something that many companies have done to compete with Apple.
The integrated approach to computers/phones/tablets have always been the best. But it have not been successful longtime because that people like diversity. Google is at a cross road with Motorola mobile. Will they lock up Android more? Maybe do the MSTF way where anybody can manufacture the hardware, but MSFT tells them what hardware they have to use + have a locked App store.
We use a Nexus S 4G for our on call phone and I don't see any lag unless it's on a webpage that is also rendering flash. The Android devices we've used here do suffer lag, but nothing to the point where it's like OMG this is sooooooo terribly unusable that I can't wait 1 second for the screen to refresh.
You really have to wait 1 second for the screen to refresh ???? OMG!!!
The article basically confirms that those people (like me) who have been calling Android laggy and choppy all this time have been 100% correct, and anybody denying that was living in a perverse fantasy world and they were wrong, as even Google's engineers are now attempting to explain the problems they've been having and what they're trying to do to fix it.
To be fair, the stuttering that is present in Android is a product of the OS continuing to work in the background. If you load a Gallery of pictures and swipe through them, the pictures will continue to load. If you open the Music application and flip through album art, it will stream in as on-the-fly. If you open the browser and navigate to a page, it will load in the background even as you're panning around on the screen.
If you perform any of those operations on iOS, loading (or any background operation, really) is put on pause to deal with user input. The web page in the background would "stop" in operation until the touch input was finished.
I don't like the stuttering Android has, but I understand why it occurs, and I'm very interested in what sort of a solution Google can come up with that allows operations to continue in the background while improving the stuttering that can occur, rather than simply wacking all operations for the input thread.
Ignorant would mean that you're claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about.
You are welcome to refute anything that I've written in this thread, if you feel that something is incorrect. Otherwise, whining will get you nowhere.
In most cases, it's your complete disrespect for anyone who chooses to use products that you yourself don't choose to use (namely Android products) that shows ignorance. It's not necessarily ignorance of the product, though I don't think you've extensively used the products you so frequently malign, but rather your ignorance of the basics of human nature. It's ignorance of the fact that different people have different needs. It's ignorance of the fact that different people value different things. And most of all it's ignorance of the fact that your unprovoked malice makes you a less credible individual.
As far as ignorance of the product goes, you demonstrated that in the portion of your post that I quoted the first time. Here you claim that Android devices respond "seconds after you press something." Ignorance. "...realtime music apps is something else that doesn't exist on Android, because of the terrible latency." Ignorance.
Just so you know, I think it is perfectly reasonable that someone could claim to have experienced a device exhibiting a consistent, seconds-long delay at some point, but the possibility for that having happened doesn't even remotely imply that it has happened, nor does it mean that one isolated case would be representative of the platform as a whole. Your unbridled hatred of all Android users and Android devices tells me that you likely have no evidence of such a device or such an experience, having merely created a scenario to project your own feelings on the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
On a touch screen device, all user interaction needs to be instantaneous, not seconds after you press something. And everything needs to be smooth, not jerky.
There's also another big thing that Android can not do well, it doesn't handle audio properly, and realtime music apps is something else that doesn't exist on Android, because of the terrible latency.
Comments
I've used my friends' Android-based phones and touch-response lag was very distracting.
The vast majority of smartphone buyers seem not to be distracted, as you were.
They usually choose Android phones instead of the iPhone, in the premium-priced category, the value category, and even in the free category.
Android was made for these kind of phones. This is a Google prototype Android phone. It was only after the iPhone came out, that Touch ever entered their minds.
I think it may have been the LG Prada that inspired them. It was announced before the iPhone.
You're acting as if you never heard anybody mention anything about Android lag before.
Wrong again!
He's acting like he's never heard anybody mention anything about what you said - that there are seconds of lag between touch and response when using Android.
He asked for some kind of objective example.
All he got in response was weaseling.
I remember specifics being talked about other tablets, like the Xoom and the Touchpad a while ago on this forum.
Handwaving is not proof.
Let's see a specific example (or even better, multiple examples) of touch and response being separated by "seconds".
That being said, iOS could possibly be classified as a RTOS depending on how its scheduler works, timing predictability, and architecture.
iOS can be "considered to be" a RTOS.
For example, if you consider a horse's tail to be a leg, then how many legs does a horse have? Clue: Abraham Lincoln has the answer.
One thing Andrew Munn forgot to mention is that unlike iOS, Android uses a CPU taxing "Garbage Collector" to manage variables.
iOS uses Reference Counting which takes away the task of managing variables from the CPU. Android has to "Garbage Collect" unused data which hogs the CPU till the operation is done.
You might want to do a restore. iOS5 runs silky smooth on both of my iPhone 4 handsets and thats with lots of apps running, including Co-Pilot in the background.
I agree. I have ios5 on my IP4, runs perfect. I also have helped two friends update their 3GS' to ios5. On those, it definitely helped to do a full restore from scratch. What also helps is to uncheck selections you don't need in Spotlight Search. I only need to search Contacts, so I unchecked everything else. Adjusting Notifications, Locations and Push on email and Cloud makes a big difference too. Turn off what you don't use, set mail and cloud to "fetch" if you don't need push. Afterwards, do two consecutive hard-resets to clear the memory caches and you are set. The 2 friends I helped with os5 on their 3GS now have buttery-smooth running smartphones.
My expectations for the desktop are now set by the Mac.
You are in good company. About 5% of the computer using public have similar expectations.
Apple invented the touchscreen UI. Android just try to steal it. Jobs was so mad that he would launch a thermonuclear war.
That's just ridiculous. Apple only 'invented' the iOS touchscreen UI. Touchscreens had been around (with UIs underneath them) since the 80's. The HP-150 is likely one of the first personal computers incorporating a touchscreen interface.
Also, despite what many people would like to think, if Google is so desperately trying to steal the iOS UI than why is it so "crappy and laggy"? The UI philosophy is so drastically different it's difficult to understand why people still try to preach that Google has stolen anything at all. Android UI is flexible, customizable and dynamic (themes, widgets, custom launchers, etc). iOS UI is completely rigid and static (no themes, no widgets, one size fits all). The performance problems in Android are in some part related to this fact, as the overhead created in the Android environment is significant.
Apple invented the touchscreen UI. Android just try to steal it. Jobs was so mad that he would launch a thermonuclear war.
If you believe what you say, then you must also believe that after inventing the touchscreen UI, Apple failed to patent the touchscreen UI. That, despite Steve proclaiming that they have patented the hell out of the iPhone. Seemingly, you believe that despite attending to many patents on the iPhone, Apple neglected to file for the most basic and valuable one of all - the touchscreen UI.
Fact is, the touchscreen UI was in use for years before the iPhone used it. Fact is, Apple did NOT invent the touchscreen UI. Fact is, Apple copied the use of the touchscreen UI.
Basic facts.
That's just ridiculous. Apple only 'invented' the iOS touchscreen UI. Touchscreens had been around (with UIs underneath them) since the 80's. The HP-150 is likely one of the first personal computers incorporating a touchscreen interface.
I agree with you that Apple didn't invent touchscreen but, from your own HP-150 Wiki link:
"The screen is not a touch screen in the strict sense, but a 9" Sony CRT surrounded by infrared emitters and detectors which detect the position of any non-transparent object on the screen."
I agree with you and Android was obviously a rush job upon release (and suffers from it today) but from a business standpoint I feel they had no choice but to release early in order to even compete against the new juggernaut (Apple)
From a business standpoint Apple is off-and-on the biggest company in the world, and they took the time to do it right the first time.
The main reasons why 2000 and XP (for their time) was so bloated was because they had legacy support going back to supporting 16-bit applications. Microsoft is slowly learning to let go of this support (although it's still bloated), but if Google goes down this road of supporting older apps then it's never really going to fix any of the current problems because of bloat.
For better or worse Apple has done a great job with managing legacy devices and applications. Sometimes that means forcing dev's to rewrite their apps, but it keeps progress moving forward.
Google have to control the graphic layer to be able to accelerate it with GPU/SIMD/NEON/Altivec. Apple have 10 year experience of accelerating OSX with Quartz extreme.
I think that Googles own "motorola" phones will be the ones that gets all these feautures. Here Google can choose the best SoC (something with PowerVR6) and really spank Apple.
But Apple have a huge advantage since they design their of SoCs with PA Semi. The A4-5 have been best in class even if they where clocked lover. Instead of raw mhz they used better memory bandwidth and NEON. This is also the reason why A5 is 30% larger then Tegra2.
Tegra3 is interesting. I wonder what Nvidias price on they are. The Tegra 3 is almost twice as large as Tegra 2 = it costs more then twice to manufacture. Tegra 2 cost 25 dollar. If Nvidia sells Tegra 3 at that price, they have taken a big hit in profit to gain market share. Something that many companies have done to compete with Apple.
The integrated approach to computers/phones/tablets have always been the best. But it have not been successful longtime because that people like diversity. Google is at a cross road with Motorola mobile. Will they lock up Android more? Maybe do the MSTF way where anybody can manufacture the hardware, but MSFT tells them what hardware they have to use + have a locked App store.
Integrated: Apple
Fragmented: Google
Something in-between: MSFT
We use a Nexus S 4G for our on call phone and I don't see any lag unless it's on a webpage that is also rendering flash. The Android devices we've used here do suffer lag, but nothing to the point where it's like OMG this is sooooooo terribly unusable that I can't wait 1 second for the screen to refresh.
The article basically confirms that those people (like me) who have been calling Android laggy and choppy all this time have been 100% correct, and anybody denying that was living in a perverse fantasy world and they were wrong, as even Google's engineers are now attempting to explain the problems they've been having and what they're trying to do to fix it.
To be fair, the stuttering that is present in Android is a product of the OS continuing to work in the background. If you load a Gallery of pictures and swipe through them, the pictures will continue to load. If you open the Music application and flip through album art, it will stream in as on-the-fly. If you open the browser and navigate to a page, it will load in the background even as you're panning around on the screen.
If you perform any of those operations on iOS, loading (or any background operation, really) is put on pause to deal with user input. The web page in the background would "stop" in operation until the touch input was finished.
I don't like the stuttering Android has, but I understand why it occurs, and I'm very interested in what sort of a solution Google can come up with that allows operations to continue in the background while improving the stuttering that can occur, rather than simply wacking all operations for the input thread.
Or the lag on an iPhone 4 running iOS5. My iP4 is stupidly laggy since the update, it's almost like going back to my old iPhone 3G.
You should see it on my 3GS then........
Ignorant would mean that you're claiming that I don't know what I'm talking about.
You are welcome to refute anything that I've written in this thread, if you feel that something is incorrect. Otherwise, whining will get you nowhere.
In most cases, it's your complete disrespect for anyone who chooses to use products that you yourself don't choose to use (namely Android products) that shows ignorance. It's not necessarily ignorance of the product, though I don't think you've extensively used the products you so frequently malign, but rather your ignorance of the basics of human nature. It's ignorance of the fact that different people have different needs. It's ignorance of the fact that different people value different things. And most of all it's ignorance of the fact that your unprovoked malice makes you a less credible individual.
As far as ignorance of the product goes, you demonstrated that in the portion of your post that I quoted the first time. Here you claim that Android devices respond "seconds after you press something." Ignorance. "...realtime music apps is something else that doesn't exist on Android, because of the terrible latency." Ignorance.
Just so you know, I think it is perfectly reasonable that someone could claim to have experienced a device exhibiting a consistent, seconds-long delay at some point, but the possibility for that having happened doesn't even remotely imply that it has happened, nor does it mean that one isolated case would be representative of the platform as a whole. Your unbridled hatred of all Android users and Android devices tells me that you likely have no evidence of such a device or such an experience, having merely created a scenario to project your own feelings on the world.
On a touch screen device, all user interaction needs to be instantaneous, not seconds after you press something. And everything needs to be smooth, not jerky.
There's also another big thing that Android can not do well, it doesn't handle audio properly, and realtime music apps is something else that doesn't exist on Android, because of the terrible latency.