In reality there's really not any profit per-se for most iOS developers. As recently as April the average yearly gross revenue for an iOS publisher was $8500. Yes you read that right. Not hundreds of thousands, but less than $10K that might have to be shared with several team members like testers, coders, managers and the like, and still deducting other assorted development and support costs. I know three times more than Android probably sounds like a lot, but in reality most of those app developers better keep their day jobs too.
And that is 10x higher than an Android publisher. So, if you are doing this part time, are you going to chase 10K or 1K?
And that is 10x higher than an Android publisher. So, if you are doing this part time, are you going to chase 10K or 1K?
I'd probably go with door 3 unless I was really good at it, had a unique and creative idea for a game, and could work fast. Otherwise in my view there's better use for the time unless you're looking at it simply as a hobby .
I'd probably go with door 3 unless I was really good at it, had a unique and creative idea for a game, and could work fast. Otherwise in my view there's better use for the time unless you're looking at it simply as a hobby .
Another way to consider it. If you use it to build skill sets in the same field (software) but a new industry (Mobile) what tech do you choose? The one with the most money going into it. And that ain't Android.
Another way to consider it. If you use it to build skill sets in the same field (software) but a new industry (Mobile) what tech do you choose? The one with the most money going into it. And that ain't Android.
I'd probably agree with that if you could only choose one.
In reality there's really not any profit per-se for most iOS developers. As recently as April the average yearly gross revenue for an iOS publisher was $8500. Yes you read that right. Not hundreds of thousands, but less than $10K that might have to be shared with several team members like testers, coders, managers and the like, and still deducting other assorted development and support costs. I know three times more than Android probably sounds like a lot, but in reality most of those app developers better keep their day jobs too.
You errantly consider the 40% of the apps that are purposely posted as free, and the vast numbers that are posted with the 99 cent trivial price. Now you are talking about 65% of the apps not being marketed to make any significant money from sales. But those free and 99-centers are doing quite well from the ad related income. Those ad dollars are going to iOS apps at a 2-1 rate in comparison to Android apps.
Then take away the shoddy work that is in both markets and attempting to be sold. Easily 80% of the remainder. Nothing special about mobile here, in desktop systems well over 80% of application development is crap results too. Nobody should be worried about crapware not getting paid, further breaking the attempt to generate a meaningful app-wide average.
The remaining apps that need to have higher sales prices are doing quite well individually on iOS, nowhere near as well on Android.
You errantly consider the 40% of the apps that are purposely posted as free, and the vast numbers that are posted with the 99 cent trivial price. Now you are talking about 65% of the apps not being marketed to make any significant money from sales. But those free and 99-centers are doing quite well from the ad related income. Those ad dollars are going to iOS apps at a 2-1 rate in comparison to Android apps.
Doesn't the amount Apple claims as paid out to developers include shared ad revenue? I'd be surprised if it did not as their point is to make the AppStore look as attractive and successful as possible.
Doesn't the amount Apple claims as paid out to developers include shared ad revenue? I'd be surprised if it did not as their point is to make the AppStore look as attractive and successful as possible.
How could Apple possibly know how much money was paid by Google directly to App developers based on ad views? Conspiracy believers might want to believe otherwise, but it would take perfect knowledge of what every user did every moment in time and that just isn't possible, let alone a profitable thing to do.
I didn't see any references to ad revenue in that article at al, and it makes the analysis mistakes I mentioned. Are the raw numbers accurate? I won't quibble because it doesn't matter. But I will categorically say the numbers GigaOM states are worse than useless because the analysis is fatally over simplified.
How could Apple possibly know how much money was paid by Google directly to App developers based on ad views? Conspiracy believers might want to believe otherwise, but it would take perfect knowledge of what every user did every moment in time and that just isn't possible, let alone a profitable thing to do.
Or a simple report by Google to Apple if the contract between them required it. . .
and it being a contractual requirement wouldn't be very surprising would it?
In any case relax. No one is questioning that developers overall make more revenue in the AppStore than the Android Market. It's also clear that on average they aren't getting wealthy there either. Mobile ad revenue isn't adding much to the equation going by the recent AI article just a day or two ago that showed it to be a fairly minor total amount. We're really arguing over tiny differences when all is said and done. Whether it's $8500 or $9500 average per publisher really doesn't matter a great deal does it?
Doesn't the amount Apple claims as paid out to developers include shared ad revenue? I'd be surprised if it did not as their point is to make the AppStore look as attractive and successful as possible.
Android's installed base is still a good size smaller than iOS. Then there's other issues: limited memory on most older or cheaper handsets, paid apps not available everywhere, need a credit card to buy apps, etc. Profits on Android are bound to be lower with these challenges.
It'll be interesting to see if the gap narrows, if and when Android's installed base surpasses that of iOS.
Android's installed base is still a good size smaller than iOS. Then there's other issues: limited memory on most older or cheaper handsets, paid apps not available everywhere, need a credit card to buy apps, etc. Profits on Android are bound to be lower with these challenges.
It'll be interesting to see if the gap narrows, if and when Android's installed base surpasses that of iOS.
Not needing a credit card on file might be one of the biggest reasons that the Android Market is lagging behind the AppStore. It's not a quick click and the app's purchased. The user has to actively specify a payment method, which allows him/her time to reconsider. In addition if they need to go get their wallet/purse to get the CC it's inconvenient.
Apple's requirement to put a payment method on file is smart business but unfortunately doesn't fit in with Google to the detriment of publishers.
This is something I like about the iphone. It's opened up opportunities for small developers. I don't know why the animosity is there toward Android. A similar climate for developers on that platform would be a positive thing. Things that encourage smaller developers are great for innovation and the economy.
Or a simple report by Google to Apple if the contract between them required it. . .
and it being a contractual requirement wouldn't be very surprising would it?
In any case relax. No one is questioning that developers overall make more revenue in the AppStore than the Android Market. It's also clear that on average they aren't getting wealthy there either. Mobile ad revenue isn't adding much to the equation going by the recent AI article just a day or two ago that showed it to be a fairly minor total amount. We're really arguing over tiny differences when all is said and done. Whether it's $8500 or $9500 average per publisher really doesn't matter a great deal does it?
Actually it would be very surprising because it would break several laws as well as provide Apple with privileged Google business information from third party transactions.
And your $8500-9500 figure is way out to lunch. Worst case the $8500 turns into $14K+ use based on culling free apps alone. Removing the $0.99 footprint is more effort than its worth, but it is pretty safe to use the 80% cutoff for crapware/hobby-ware, and that estimates serious well written apps as returning almost $71K each on average. My completely unsupported guess is double that after the dollar apps are out. Then add the ad revenues on top of all that. Am I being callous to the 80% that make almost nothing, yes, but that just happens to be a very standard rule of thumb when you consider successful business rates.
How many smartphone apps need more than .25FTE (3 months labor) to roll out? Quality apps that people want/need done in that time are returning nearly 3x the investment in labor costs. Hobbyists and evening freelancers doing good work are making real good money if they had a good idea and some independent means to get the word out.
Actually it would be very surprising because it would break several laws as well as provide Apple with privileged Google business information from third party transactions.
Now I think you're just making things up. There's no law against Google sharing advertising metrics with Apple concerning their AppStore, and I'm happy to be corrected on that. Not you, I or anyone else here knows what's included in the latest contract between Apple and Google. You might guess they don't share, and that's fine and could even be true. . . or not. Claiming it breaks some imaginary law is going a bit far in trying to prove your point.
Just curious, since you imply the $8500 on average figure was made up or based on flawed analysis. . .
Did you actually study the Gigaom link I posted earlier or just skim it over? No one has said that they're aren't fairly successful developers, but claiming the average payout is actually 14K per app, and then adding mobile ad revenue on top of that, isn't supported by any figure's I've seen.
Now I think you're just making things up. There's no law against Google sharing advertising metrics with Apple concerning their AppStore, and I'm happy to be corrected on that. Not you, I or anyone else here knows what's included in the latest contract between Apple and Google. You might guess they don't share, and that's fine and could even be true. . . or not. Claiming it breaks some imaginary law is going a bit far in trying to prove your point.
Just curious, since you imply the $8500 on average figure was made up or based on flawed analysis. . .
Did you actually study the Gigaom link I posted earlier or just skim it over? No one has said that they're aren't fairly successful developers, but claiming the average payout is actually 14K per app, and then adding mobile ad revenue on top of that, isn't supported by any figure's I've seen.
Because both would be involved in advertising sharing data without being in an open industrywide consortium, that would put them at risk of being identified as colluding to control ad pricing. That's pretty basic business law. And they don't even have to be doing particularly bad things to be guilty of collusion under circumstances like that. Just listen to Federal prosecutors in parts of the S&K tomato case.
I am claiming flawed analysis on the meaning of the $8500 figure. I accept the raw number as being a reasonable thing for GigaOm to have worked out. But I reject that a per-app average across all apps in the store has any meaning whatsoever, especially when the majority of the apps on the store use either a primary advertising model (free and 99-cent apps) or free customer service functionality serving a brick and mortar business.
The math to get to my figures is very straightforward when you read the post. Just divide by the percentages. We can disagree all day on the exact percentages I use, but the process will remain the same and the end result will always be a drastically higher number than published by GigaOm.
Comments
In reality there's really not any profit per-se for most iOS developers. As recently as April the average yearly gross revenue for an iOS publisher was $8500. Yes you read that right. Not hundreds of thousands, but less than $10K that might have to be shared with several team members like testers, coders, managers and the like, and still deducting other assorted development and support costs. I know three times more than Android probably sounds like a lot, but in reality most of those app developers better keep their day jobs too.
And that is 10x higher than an Android publisher. So, if you are doing this part time, are you going to chase 10K or 1K?
And that is 10x higher than an Android publisher. So, if you are doing this part time, are you going to chase 10K or 1K?
I'd probably go with door 3 unless I was really good at it, had a unique and creative idea for a game, and could work fast. Otherwise in my view there's better use for the time unless you're looking at it simply as a hobby .
I'd probably go with door 3 unless I was really good at it, had a unique and creative idea for a game, and could work fast. Otherwise in my view there's better use for the time unless you're looking at it simply as a hobby .
Another way to consider it. If you use it to build skill sets in the same field (software) but a new industry (Mobile) what tech do you choose? The one with the most money going into it. And that ain't Android.
Another way to consider it. If you use it to build skill sets in the same field (software) but a new industry (Mobile) what tech do you choose? The one with the most money going into it. And that ain't Android.
I'd probably agree with that if you could only choose one.
In reality there's really not any profit per-se for most iOS developers. As recently as April the average yearly gross revenue for an iOS publisher was $8500. Yes you read that right. Not hundreds of thousands, but less than $10K that might have to be shared with several team members like testers, coders, managers and the like, and still deducting other assorted development and support costs. I know three times more than Android probably sounds like a lot, but in reality most of those app developers better keep their day jobs too.
You errantly consider the 40% of the apps that are purposely posted as free, and the vast numbers that are posted with the 99 cent trivial price. Now you are talking about 65% of the apps not being marketed to make any significant money from sales. But those free and 99-centers are doing quite well from the ad related income. Those ad dollars are going to iOS apps at a 2-1 rate in comparison to Android apps.
Then take away the shoddy work that is in both markets and attempting to be sold. Easily 80% of the remainder. Nothing special about mobile here, in desktop systems well over 80% of application development is crap results too. Nobody should be worried about crapware not getting paid, further breaking the attempt to generate a meaningful app-wide average.
The remaining apps that need to have higher sales prices are doing quite well individually on iOS, nowhere near as well on Android.
You errantly consider the 40% of the apps that are purposely posted as free, and the vast numbers that are posted with the 99 cent trivial price. Now you are talking about 65% of the apps not being marketed to make any significant money from sales. But those free and 99-centers are doing quite well from the ad related income. Those ad dollars are going to iOS apps at a 2-1 rate in comparison to Android apps.
Doesn't the amount Apple claims as paid out to developers include shared ad revenue? I'd be surprised if it did not as their point is to make the AppStore look as attractive and successful as possible.
http://gigaom.com/apple/the-average-...ng-much-money/
Doesn't the amount Apple claims as paid out to developers include shared ad revenue? I'd be surprised if it did not as their point is to make the AppStore look as attractive and successful as possible.
http://gigaom.com/apple/the-average-...ng-much-money/
How could Apple possibly know how much money was paid by Google directly to App developers based on ad views? Conspiracy believers might want to believe otherwise, but it would take perfect knowledge of what every user did every moment in time and that just isn't possible, let alone a profitable thing to do.
I didn't see any references to ad revenue in that article at al, and it makes the analysis mistakes I mentioned. Are the raw numbers accurate? I won't quibble because it doesn't matter. But I will categorically say the numbers GigaOM states are worse than useless because the analysis is fatally over simplified.
How could Apple possibly know how much money was paid by Google directly to App developers based on ad views? Conspiracy believers might want to believe otherwise, but it would take perfect knowledge of what every user did every moment in time and that just isn't possible, let alone a profitable thing to do.
Or a simple report by Google to Apple if the contract between them required it. . .
and it being a contractual requirement wouldn't be very surprising would it?
In any case relax. No one is questioning that developers overall make more revenue in the AppStore than the Android Market. It's also clear that on average they aren't getting wealthy there either. Mobile ad revenue isn't adding much to the equation going by the recent AI article just a day or two ago that showed it to be a fairly minor total amount. We're really arguing over tiny differences when all is said and done. Whether it's $8500 or $9500 average per publisher really doesn't matter a great deal does it?
Doesn't the amount Apple claims as paid out to developers include shared ad revenue? I'd be surprised if it did not as their point is to make the AppStore look as attractive and successful as possible.
http://gigaom.com/apple/the-average-...ng-much-money/
It includes iAD, direct purchase and in-app purchase. It excludes AdWords, Flurry and the other mobile ad networks.
iAD is not a big player in this field.
It'll be interesting to see if the gap narrows, if and when Android's installed base surpasses that of iOS.
Android's installed base is still a good size smaller than iOS. Then there's other issues: limited memory on most older or cheaper handsets, paid apps not available everywhere, need a credit card to buy apps, etc. Profits on Android are bound to be lower with these challenges.
It'll be interesting to see if the gap narrows, if and when Android's installed base surpasses that of iOS.
Not needing a credit card on file might be one of the biggest reasons that the Android Market is lagging behind the AppStore. It's not a quick click and the app's purchased. The user has to actively specify a payment method, which allows him/her time to reconsider. In addition if they need to go get their wallet/purse to get the CC it's inconvenient.
Apple's requirement to put a payment method on file is smart business but unfortunately doesn't fit in with Google to the detriment of publishers.
Or a simple report by Google to Apple if the contract between them required it. . .
and it being a contractual requirement wouldn't be very surprising would it?
In any case relax. No one is questioning that developers overall make more revenue in the AppStore than the Android Market. It's also clear that on average they aren't getting wealthy there either. Mobile ad revenue isn't adding much to the equation going by the recent AI article just a day or two ago that showed it to be a fairly minor total amount. We're really arguing over tiny differences when all is said and done. Whether it's $8500 or $9500 average per publisher really doesn't matter a great deal does it?
Actually it would be very surprising because it would break several laws as well as provide Apple with privileged Google business information from third party transactions.
And your $8500-9500 figure is way out to lunch. Worst case the $8500 turns into $14K+ use based on culling free apps alone. Removing the $0.99 footprint is more effort than its worth, but it is pretty safe to use the 80% cutoff for crapware/hobby-ware, and that estimates serious well written apps as returning almost $71K each on average. My completely unsupported guess is double that after the dollar apps are out. Then add the ad revenues on top of all that. Am I being callous to the 80% that make almost nothing, yes, but that just happens to be a very standard rule of thumb when you consider successful business rates.
How many smartphone apps need more than .25FTE (3 months labor) to roll out? Quality apps that people want/need done in that time are returning nearly 3x the investment in labor costs. Hobbyists and evening freelancers doing good work are making real good money if they had a good idea and some independent means to get the word out.
Actually it would be very surprising because it would break several laws as well as provide Apple with privileged Google business information from third party transactions.
Now I think you're just making things up. There's no law against Google sharing advertising metrics with Apple concerning their AppStore, and I'm happy to be corrected on that. Not you, I or anyone else here knows what's included in the latest contract between Apple and Google. You might guess they don't share, and that's fine and could even be true. . . or not. Claiming it breaks some imaginary law is going a bit far in trying to prove your point.
Just curious, since you imply the $8500 on average figure was made up or based on flawed analysis. . .
Did you actually study the Gigaom link I posted earlier or just skim it over? No one has said that they're aren't fairly successful developers, but claiming the average payout is actually 14K per app, and then adding mobile ad revenue on top of that, isn't supported by any figure's I've seen.
Now I think you're just making things up. There's no law against Google sharing advertising metrics with Apple concerning their AppStore, and I'm happy to be corrected on that. Not you, I or anyone else here knows what's included in the latest contract between Apple and Google. You might guess they don't share, and that's fine and could even be true. . . or not. Claiming it breaks some imaginary law is going a bit far in trying to prove your point.
Just curious, since you imply the $8500 on average figure was made up or based on flawed analysis. . .
Did you actually study the Gigaom link I posted earlier or just skim it over? No one has said that they're aren't fairly successful developers, but claiming the average payout is actually 14K per app, and then adding mobile ad revenue on top of that, isn't supported by any figure's I've seen.
Because both would be involved in advertising sharing data without being in an open industrywide consortium, that would put them at risk of being identified as colluding to control ad pricing. That's pretty basic business law. And they don't even have to be doing particularly bad things to be guilty of collusion under circumstances like that. Just listen to Federal prosecutors in parts of the S&K tomato case.
I am claiming flawed analysis on the meaning of the $8500 figure. I accept the raw number as being a reasonable thing for GigaOm to have worked out. But I reject that a per-app average across all apps in the store has any meaning whatsoever, especially when the majority of the apps on the store use either a primary advertising model (free and 99-cent apps) or free customer service functionality serving a brick and mortar business.
The math to get to my figures is very straightforward when you read the post. Just divide by the percentages. We can disagree all day on the exact percentages I use, but the process will remain the same and the end result will always be a drastically higher number than published by GigaOm.