I think apple will definitely have to change. People in reality don't care to much about OS, they care about price and features. Screen size is one of the growing features people want. When people find out that the iPhone 4s is not the iPhone 4gs they start to want an Android, Why? they think 4g>3g. So it comes to the point why should I pay the same for a smaller screen and slower data? (and for some consumers the list of things they would have to compromise is larger, keyboard, Removable battery, Having to use iTunes etc.
You don't get it. Your analysis of what people want is flawed and not based on any real evidence. Apple's success is not about specs. The iPhone has never had the best camera, or the fastest processor, or the biggest screen, or even the best features. The iPhone is more than the sum of its parts. Apple's blend of hardware and software cannot be duplicated by anyone...and they've tried.
So no, Apple does not have to offer a bigger screen. Apple does not have to release a 4G phone right now. Apple does not have to anything, because they are selling phones by the tens of millions. And they'll keep doing so, updating their products over time as they see fit.
You don't get it. Your analysis of what people want is flawed and not based on any real evidence. Apple's success is not about specs. The iPhone has never had the best camera, or the fastest processor, or the biggest screen, or even the best features. The iPhone is more than the sum of its parts. Apple's blend of hardware and software cannot be duplicated by anyone...and they've tried.
So no, Apple does not have to offer a bigger screen. Apple does not have to release a 4G phone right now. Apple does not have to anything, because they are selling phones by the tens of millions. And they'll keep doing so, updating their products over time as they see fit.
The new iPhone was not available for half of the time period mentioned in the data so it may not be an accurate representation of what is really happening. It could be the same as looking at the sales data for just the 2 weeks after the iPhone 4S launch. It would probably favor Apple but wouldn't mean as much looking at overall trends.
What would be interesting is to see the data broken down by country by month. If the November data was looking more promising, that would reflect a more steady state set of numbers for iPhone sales.
Even though Europe is an important market, the most interesting place for Apple is China. That data would be interesting since those numbers, from past earnings reports, has grown by leaps and bounds. And once they can start selling the new iPhone, we should continue to see a growth in revenues and earnings, which is most important to investors.
Really?! In my business I have experienced hundreds of people switching to iPhone because the Android system was too frustrating because of lack of cohesion.
Forget those numbers. Apple's biggest problem is their ridiculous currency hedging. They do their pricing by assuming Euro/USD parity, while the Euro has been around 1,30 - 1,40 USD for most of the year.
Assume the iPad at 499 USD should be around 360-380 Euros. In fact it is 479 EUR.
So everyone I know travelling to the US will bring back Apple stuff and make friends and family happy or sell it with a decent margin on ebay.
I guess in Asia the same thing is happening.
So take like 5-10% off the US Numbers (minimum) and add half of that to the EU numbers and half of this to the Asian ones.
Apple should definitely reconsider their pricing in Europe, if they don't want to be suffering for years trying to regain that lost market share. There is no reason why an iPad in Greece should cost 30% more than in the US ... Ridiculous...
Max
Prices quoted in the US do not have sales tax in them while prices in Europe have VAT included. Take out the VAT (which Apple does not keep) and the prices are not so bad.
You know, I was talking to my Aunt Minny and she said that a friend of hers was talking to her pastor at the church who said that he had been talking to someone at the bake sale who had heard that Joe, who is the local plumber, has a brother that bought a phone that he said was smart but it wasn't from Apple... or maybe he bought some Snapple because it was on sale and he's smart that way... or...
Saturating the market with Android crap will always reduce your overall market share. It sure as hell speaks nothing to actual increase in iOS sales and profits.
Apple will continue to increase their position of owning the lion's share of the industry profits in the smartphone and embedded space.
When will the tipping point reach that the Samsungs, HTCs and more of the globe start to pull out?
For the price conscious potential iPhone adopter, the iPhone 4S may be too expensive but the iPhone 4 is tempting. However, I think the $99 iPhone 4 only having 8GB of flash is a disincentive. The iPhone 4 may not be the fastest phone, but it's by no means slow and looking the same as the more expensive iPhone 4S are pluses. Given the size of apps, movies or music collections nowadays, only having 8GB of non-expandable memory can be a deal-breaker. Pulling things down from the cloud maybe a good feature, but it's not always the most convenient or cost-effective due to data plans. If the $99 iPhone 4 had 16GB of flash memory it would be much better positioned to prevent the price conscious potential iPhone adopter from turning to alternatives. The iPhone 4S having a faster SoC, better camera, and Siri are enough to make it distinct from the iPhone 4 so I don't think cannibalization from a 16GB iPhone 4 is that big a concern.
Saturating the market with Android crap will always reduce your overall market share. It sure as hell speaks nothing to actual increase in iOS sales and profits.
Apple will continue to increase their position of owning the lion's share of the industry profits in the smartphone and embedded space.
When will the tipping point reach that the Samsungs, HTCs and more of the globe start to pull out?
It's going to be fun watching them fall.
If things appear to be going the way they seem, Android is being used to drive erosion of the feature phone segment. For the average consumer however, the Android seems to be ending up a gateway device for the iPhone.
That being said, a bunch of conspiracy theories can be considered around this - just for the fun of it.
1. Apple and Google colluded to undermine RIM and Microsoft, with Nokia absorbing the aftershock of the feature phone market erosion. The pretense of competition is provided to distract from the real intent, and the fanboys led unsuspecting into the fray to bolster appearances. This is supported by the fact that Apple has no direct lawsuits against Google, for example.
2. Nokia was the actual target with RIM being unwitting victims. Microsoft took a hit initially, but was positioning to roll out a new mobile OS, and was in the best position to absorb the shock and come back. Again same approach as above, but focussed on eroding Nokia instead. This also is supported by the way that Microsoft conveniently stepped in and managed license agreements against Android among the handset makers.
3. Initially Google was playing nice with Android, but got greedy and decided to go for broke. This left both Apple and Microsoft with having to manage between them a countering strategy (covered by the usual prickly diatribe to distract), that allowed Redmond to monitize licensing of patents against Android handset makers and Apple to draw fire with a series of lawsuits directed at the handset makers.
If things appear to be going the way they seem, Android is being used to drive erosion of the feature phone segment. For the average consumer however, the Android seems to be ending up a gateway device for the iPhone.
That being said, a bunch of conspiracy theories can be considered around this - just for the fun of it.
1. Apple and Google colluded to undermine RIM and Microsoft, with Nokia absorbing the aftershock of the feature phone market erosion. The pretense of competition is provided to distract from the real intent, and the fanboys led unsuspecting into the fray to bolster appearances. This is supported by the fact that Apple has no direct lawsuits against Google, for example.
2. Nokia was the actual target with RIM being unwitting victims. Microsoft took a hit initially, but was positioning to roll out a new mobile OS, and was in the best position to absorb the shock and come back. Again same approach as above, but focussed on eroding Nokia instead. This also is supported by the way that Microsoft conveniently stepped in and managed license agreements against Android among the handset makers.
3. Initially Google was playing nice with Android, but got greedy and decided to go for broke. This left both Apple and Microsoft with having to manage between them a countering strategy (covered by the usual prickly diatribe to distract), that allowed Redmond to monitize licensing of patents against Android handset makers and Apple to draw fire with a series of lawsuits directed at the handset makers.
4. (Make up your own conspiracy theory!)
A man after my own heart. Things are often not as they appear, and business relationships are in constant flux.
Business and consumer confidence in Europe are particularly low, as the continent is in the midst of a financial crisis stemming from government debt.
The media are making this problem harder to solve by misreporting it. This is a crisis stemming from bank bailouts, which is private debt that governments assumed. Except for Greece, the countries in trouble had relatively low debt and decreasing deficits before this started. Now Europe is being crippled by government austerity programs, which amount to trying to get the bailout money back from people who didn't cause the problems, and killing economic recovery in the process.
It would also be accurate to call this a crisis stemming from a currency union which isn't a true economic union, which makes the system unstable under this kind of economic shock. Thinking this all stems from government overspending leads to the false conclusion that reducing government spending will help.
It makes sense to choose another phone since people in many European countries can't benefit (much) from the only new feature the iphone 4s has, Siri. Also, I think the talk of "world phone" is nonsense for many in the EU (I hadn't even heard of cdma network until the iPhone 4s was released), which also may drive people away from upgrading to 4s and choose a droid instead. I am waiting for iPhone 5, but if that disappoints too, then I'll stick with my 3gs.
I relate this only to point out that sales of Droids etc. do not mean the loss of a sale for Apple .... I was with a realtor who had a new Droid yesterday, we were both waiting on a home inspection that took several hours. She had to plug her Droid in to use it as it never stayed charged for more than half a day she explained. She spent some time looking over my iPhone 4s and was blown away. Siri litteraly shocked her. When I explained iCloud and pulled out my iPad and also told her about ATV she was drooling. My MBPro was the final blow, she was in love. The only snag was she needed Windows for two applictions not available on Mac, so i launched VMWare and asked if she preferred XP, Vista or 7? She called today and asked if I could give her an hour or so to put together an Apple Eco system shopping list for her and her family, they had decided to convert entirely. This happens to me several times a month.
Yes, I would say the same for my iphone and ipad but not the MBPro. I used MBPro for 4 years now and wanted to love the device because I spent so much $ on it. But I have to say it does has a very pretty UI and will attract people on the first sight. But everything went down hill when I really want to do some productive work. Even the out of box Finder is a pain to use. Now I either boot to Linux or Windows most of the time, and maybe OSX couple times a month.
If the $99 iPhone 4 had 16GB of flash memory it would be much better positioned to prevent the price conscious potential iPhone adopter from turning to alternatives.
Apple products are NOT more expensive than the competition. In fact, they are cheaper.
I think apple will definitely have to change. People in reality don't care to much about OS, they care about price and features. Screen size is one of the growing features people want. When people find out that the iPhone 4s is not the iPhone 4gs they start to want an Android, Why? they think 4g>3g...
Apple is the 2nd most valued (market cap) company in the world. It'll change if and when it wants to.
I left crappy Android for a 4S and i'm not going back.
Consumers may want 4G, but not at a cost of battery life.
Well, I'm waiting for a 5"/6" cell phone to upgrade. Larger is always better, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple v. Samsung
... (and for some consumers the list of things they would have to compromise is larger, keyboard, Removable battery, Having to use iTunes etc.
yeah, physical keyboard...is that why most of the flagship Androids don't have one?
Removable battery? You know how many times i've removed my battery from my old Android device? 4 times because that's the only way I could shut it off after it crashed.
iTunes is a feature. Good luck syncing music with Android.
In my experience, consumers also want great customer support and ease of use.
The latest report is until the end of November, so a rush on the new iPhone and the cheaper old iPhones still leaves Apple a distant second to Android in the US, Australia and UK, and not even in the race in many other countries.
At least the new iPhone and cheaper 4 and 3 have dented Androids growth in three countries. Something to chear about for Apple fans - at least until the big companies release their flagship ICS and start blowing apple away again. I know I am holding off on a new phone until the new HTC ICS top-end phone.
Why don't you buy a sub $200 PAYG phone, that's where Android's marketshare is coming from, not that it's worth all that much.
Now has Apple continued to sell more iPhones than they sold before, that is far more important.
Apple might be the first casualty in the coming prepaid wars. People say they want their phones to have resale value but that is only if you buy them at $650+ in the first place. iPhone 4 class Android phones are all over my local CL for barely $150-200. At some point Apple's margins are either going to take a hit, or they are going to cede marketshare.
Rubbish, most of the phone's you refer to are more in line with the 3GS, low screen resolutions, low camera resolutions, a minimum of onboard memory etc.
Comments
I think apple will definitely have to change. People in reality don't care to much about OS, they care about price and features. Screen size is one of the growing features people want. When people find out that the iPhone 4s is not the iPhone 4gs they start to want an Android, Why? they think 4g>3g. So it comes to the point why should I pay the same for a smaller screen and slower data? (and for some consumers the list of things they would have to compromise is larger, keyboard, Removable battery, Having to use iTunes etc.
You don't get it. Your analysis of what people want is flawed and not based on any real evidence. Apple's success is not about specs. The iPhone has never had the best camera, or the fastest processor, or the biggest screen, or even the best features. The iPhone is more than the sum of its parts. Apple's blend of hardware and software cannot be duplicated by anyone...and they've tried.
So no, Apple does not have to offer a bigger screen. Apple does not have to release a 4G phone right now. Apple does not have to anything, because they are selling phones by the tens of millions. And they'll keep doing so, updating their products over time as they see fit.
You don't get it. Your analysis of what people want is flawed and not based on any real evidence. Apple's success is not about specs. The iPhone has never had the best camera, or the fastest processor, or the biggest screen, or even the best features. The iPhone is more than the sum of its parts. Apple's blend of hardware and software cannot be duplicated by anyone...and they've tried.
So no, Apple does not have to offer a bigger screen. Apple does not have to release a 4G phone right now. Apple does not have to anything, because they are selling phones by the tens of millions. And they'll keep doing so, updating their products over time as they see fit.
It's fun to play with trolls, isn't it.
What would be interesting is to see the data broken down by country by month. If the November data was looking more promising, that would reflect a more steady state set of numbers for iPhone sales.
Even though Europe is an important market, the most interesting place for Apple is China. That data would be interesting since those numbers, from past earnings reports, has grown by leaps and bounds. And once they can start selling the new iPhone, we should continue to see a growth in revenues and earnings, which is most important to investors.
JMO though. Good luck out there.
Neal
Really?! In my business I have experienced hundreds of people switching to iPhone because the Android system was too frustrating because of lack of cohesion.
Well, yes, but you don't work at Samsung.
Forget those numbers. Apple's biggest problem is their ridiculous currency hedging. They do their pricing by assuming Euro/USD parity, while the Euro has been around 1,30 - 1,40 USD for most of the year.
Assume the iPad at 499 USD should be around 360-380 Euros. In fact it is 479 EUR.
So everyone I know travelling to the US will bring back Apple stuff and make friends and family happy or sell it with a decent margin on ebay.
I guess in Asia the same thing is happening.
So take like 5-10% off the US Numbers (minimum) and add half of that to the EU numbers and half of this to the Asian ones.
Apple should definitely reconsider their pricing in Europe, if they don't want to be suffering for years trying to regain that lost market share. There is no reason why an iPad in Greece should cost 30% more than in the US ... Ridiculous...
Max
Prices quoted in the US do not have sales tax in them while prices in Europe have VAT included. Take out the VAT (which Apple does not keep) and the prices are not so bad.
Well, yes, but you don't work at Samsung.
You know, I was talking to my Aunt Minny and she said that a friend of hers was talking to her pastor at the church who said that he had been talking to someone at the bake sale who had heard that Joe, who is the local plumber, has a brother that bought a phone that he said was smart but it wasn't from Apple... or maybe he bought some Snapple because it was on sale and he's smart that way... or...
Apple will continue to increase their position of owning the lion's share of the industry profits in the smartphone and embedded space.
When will the tipping point reach that the Samsungs, HTCs and more of the globe start to pull out?
It's going to be fun watching them fall.
Well done! St.Digitalclips the Apple evangelist
Been one since 1978.. been through hard times but loving it now
Saturating the market with Android crap will always reduce your overall market share. It sure as hell speaks nothing to actual increase in iOS sales and profits.
Apple will continue to increase their position of owning the lion's share of the industry profits in the smartphone and embedded space.
When will the tipping point reach that the Samsungs, HTCs and more of the globe start to pull out?
It's going to be fun watching them fall.
If things appear to be going the way they seem, Android is being used to drive erosion of the feature phone segment. For the average consumer however, the Android seems to be ending up a gateway device for the iPhone.
That being said, a bunch of conspiracy theories can be considered around this - just for the fun of it.
1. Apple and Google colluded to undermine RIM and Microsoft, with Nokia absorbing the aftershock of the feature phone market erosion. The pretense of competition is provided to distract from the real intent, and the fanboys led unsuspecting into the fray to bolster appearances. This is supported by the fact that Apple has no direct lawsuits against Google, for example.
2. Nokia was the actual target with RIM being unwitting victims. Microsoft took a hit initially, but was positioning to roll out a new mobile OS, and was in the best position to absorb the shock and come back. Again same approach as above, but focussed on eroding Nokia instead. This also is supported by the way that Microsoft conveniently stepped in and managed license agreements against Android among the handset makers.
3. Initially Google was playing nice with Android, but got greedy and decided to go for broke. This left both Apple and Microsoft with having to manage between them a countering strategy (covered by the usual prickly diatribe to distract), that allowed Redmond to monitize licensing of patents against Android handset makers and Apple to draw fire with a series of lawsuits directed at the handset makers.
4. (Make up your own conspiracy theory!)
There is no reason why an iPad in Greece should cost 30% more than in the US
Greece needs the Tax?
If things appear to be going the way they seem, Android is being used to drive erosion of the feature phone segment. For the average consumer however, the Android seems to be ending up a gateway device for the iPhone.
That being said, a bunch of conspiracy theories can be considered around this - just for the fun of it.
1. Apple and Google colluded to undermine RIM and Microsoft, with Nokia absorbing the aftershock of the feature phone market erosion. The pretense of competition is provided to distract from the real intent, and the fanboys led unsuspecting into the fray to bolster appearances. This is supported by the fact that Apple has no direct lawsuits against Google, for example.
2. Nokia was the actual target with RIM being unwitting victims. Microsoft took a hit initially, but was positioning to roll out a new mobile OS, and was in the best position to absorb the shock and come back. Again same approach as above, but focussed on eroding Nokia instead. This also is supported by the way that Microsoft conveniently stepped in and managed license agreements against Android among the handset makers.
3. Initially Google was playing nice with Android, but got greedy and decided to go for broke. This left both Apple and Microsoft with having to manage between them a countering strategy (covered by the usual prickly diatribe to distract), that allowed Redmond to monitize licensing of patents against Android handset makers and Apple to draw fire with a series of lawsuits directed at the handset makers.
4. (Make up your own conspiracy theory!)
A man after my own heart. Things are often not as they appear, and business relationships are in constant flux.
Business and consumer confidence in Europe are particularly low, as the continent is in the midst of a financial crisis stemming from government debt.
The media are making this problem harder to solve by misreporting it. This is a crisis stemming from bank bailouts, which is private debt that governments assumed. Except for Greece, the countries in trouble had relatively low debt and decreasing deficits before this started. Now Europe is being crippled by government austerity programs, which amount to trying to get the bailout money back from people who didn't cause the problems, and killing economic recovery in the process.
It would also be accurate to call this a crisis stemming from a currency union which isn't a true economic union, which makes the system unstable under this kind of economic shock. Thinking this all stems from government overspending leads to the false conclusion that reducing government spending will help.
I relate this only to point out that sales of Droids etc. do not mean the loss of a sale for Apple .... I was with a realtor who had a new Droid yesterday, we were both waiting on a home inspection that took several hours. She had to plug her Droid in to use it as it never stayed charged for more than half a day she explained. She spent some time looking over my iPhone 4s and was blown away. Siri litteraly shocked her. When I explained iCloud and pulled out my iPad and also told her about ATV she was drooling. My MBPro was the final blow, she was in love. The only snag was she needed Windows for two applictions not available on Mac, so i launched VMWare and asked if she preferred XP, Vista or 7? She called today and asked if I could give her an hour or so to put together an Apple Eco system shopping list for her and her family, they had decided to convert entirely. This happens to me several times a month.
Yes, I would say the same for my iphone and ipad but not the MBPro. I used MBPro for 4 years now and wanted to love the device because I spent so much $ on it. But I have to say it does has a very pretty UI and will attract people on the first sight. But everything went down hill when I really want to do some productive work. Even the out of box Finder is a pain to use. Now I either boot to Linux or Windows most of the time, and maybe OSX couple times a month.
If the $99 iPhone 4 had 16GB of flash memory it would be much better positioned to prevent the price conscious potential iPhone adopter from turning to alternatives.
Apple products are NOT more expensive than the competition. In fact, they are cheaper.
I think apple will definitely have to change. People in reality don't care to much about OS, they care about price and features. Screen size is one of the growing features people want. When people find out that the iPhone 4s is not the iPhone 4gs they start to want an Android, Why? they think 4g>3g...
Apple is the 2nd most valued (market cap) company in the world. It'll change if and when it wants to.
I left crappy Android for a 4S and i'm not going back.
Consumers may want 4G, but not at a cost of battery life.
Well, I'm waiting for a 5"/6" cell phone to upgrade. Larger is always better, right?
... (and for some consumers the list of things they would have to compromise is larger, keyboard, Removable battery, Having to use iTunes etc.
yeah, physical keyboard...is that why most of the flagship Androids don't have one?
Removable battery? You know how many times i've removed my battery from my old Android device? 4 times because that's the only way I could shut it off after it crashed.
iTunes is a feature. Good luck syncing music with Android.
In my experience, consumers also want great customer support and ease of use.
So one company with three handsets is being outsold be multiple companies with dozens of handsets?
The iPhone is the biggest selling phone in the world, it produces more profit than the rest of the mobile phone industry combined. End of story.
The latest report is until the end of November, so a rush on the new iPhone and the cheaper old iPhones still leaves Apple a distant second to Android in the US, Australia and UK, and not even in the race in many other countries.
At least the new iPhone and cheaper 4 and 3 have dented Androids growth in three countries. Something to chear about for Apple fans - at least until the big companies release their flagship ICS and start blowing apple away again. I know I am holding off on a new phone until the new HTC ICS top-end phone.
Why don't you buy a sub $200 PAYG phone, that's where Android's marketshare is coming from, not that it's worth all that much.
Now has Apple continued to sell more iPhones than they sold before, that is far more important.
http://youtu.be/eWtYvvp9u98
Apple might be the first casualty in the coming prepaid wars. People say they want their phones to have resale value but that is only if you buy them at $650+ in the first place. iPhone 4 class Android phones are all over my local CL for barely $150-200. At some point Apple's margins are either going to take a hit, or they are going to cede marketshare.
Rubbish, most of the phone's you refer to are more in line with the 3GS, low screen resolutions, low camera resolutions, a minimum of onboard memory etc.
Some examples:-
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_explorer-4102.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_gala...s5670-3726.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_u8510_ideos_x3-3840.php
http://www.gsmarena.com/zte_blade-3391.php
These are as much like an iPhone 4 as a Kindle Fire is like an iPad 2.